Member: Glen H
Location:
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 10:04:24 AM

Comments

Hopefully I won't have to make amends for messing up the refresh..:)


Member: Mark B
Location: Eielson AFB, AK
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 2:07:51 PM

Comments

Mark, alcoholic. The list part was simple, it came right from my 4th step. I needed help from my sponsor though in actually determining who I needed to make amends to. Now, the becoming willing part, that was some serious work in some cases. See, as a drunk, I like to justify my actions in imparting pain onto others. I always thought I was justified. We looked at each and every person or institution and examined my actions, my part in the actions or inactions, depending on the cases. Took a while, and in some cases, I'm still willing if I should ever meet any of those that I can't contact or locate. Simple stuff, I just needed a lot of help and guidance. Gotta run

Mark


Member: Bonnie B
Location: Reno, NV
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 2:42:35 PM

Comments

Hello: Making list is simple. We look at our 4th step. NOT SO SIMPLE, Becoming willing to make amends to them ALL. First we talk this over with a sponsor, or good friend, to see if our list, and especially expectations are within reason. The list may contain, institutions, and people, living or dead, and especially ourselves.


Member: roo
Location: ouch
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 5:37:10 PM

Comments

life is not so simple when you have a pimple on your butt.


Member: John S.
Location: Buffalo NY
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 7:48:04 PM

Comments

The list was simple after I stopped looking at the eventual task at hand: the Ninth Step. After procrastinating for several months, I eventually rewrote my fourth step list as a list of people I had harmed. Lo and behold, when I finished the list, I was willing to do whatever my sponsor suggested by way of amends. I essentially broke the 8th Step into two parts--making the list first, without porjecting what I'd do with it. Up until that point, the idea of amends scared me. When I got the list done, I was all of a sudden willing to make amends to the people on the list. Direction from my sponsor was invaluable.


Member: Bob S.
Location: Salt Lake
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 8:47:50 PM

Comments

I agree with what has been said about the making of the list. "The list" is in step 4. In my first step 8, becoming willing to apologize seemed reasonable, not too daunting. It wasn't until later, after consulting with my sponsor, and others who know me, that it became apparent that my tendency to be exhibitionistic and grandios about everything, was not being missed on the harm I had done others, and the dramatic need for atonement on my part. My definition of what was appropriate was so skewed that I thought I was going to be doing a divinely guided deed and that I and these people would be somehow improved. "Of true humnility, I had none". My thinking was self -serving and needed the intervention of others to put me on the right track.

Thanks for letting me share. Bob


Member: smk
Location: omaha, ne
Date: 2/18/01
Time: 11:04:53 PM

Comments

sandra k. Omaha, NE

I guess the thing that stood out for me today is action. The willingness is there as long as I take the action. I made my list as I did my 4th step. Very easy to see where I had harmed others. The thing that gets to me today is the harm I cause others by the inaction that I refuse to do or I refuse to see. For instance, my daughter loves to do crafts with me. She asked today if we could do one and even reminded me about it and I got so busy into by day that I forgot about her request. Tonight as I am going over my day (10th step) I see where I was wrong. It is important to do what I say I am going to do. This was of course totally unintentional but that doesn't matter because to her it was disregarding her. Really that was how I viewed some of the 8th and 9th step work as "unintentional" really no harm done. Most of my amends today is out of unintentionally hurting someone but by God it does hurt them. And it hurts them even more when I don't right the wrong. So tomorrow when my daughter gets up I am going to right the wrong. Hopefully I will sleep better tonight. Thanks for listening.


Member: HIPOLITO R.
Location: CHI-TOWN
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 3:05:24 AM

Comments

Faith without works is dead says the big book we must continue our quest for sobriety,it's just a list the bigger step is yet to come,the willingnes should be there no one said it would be easy but it is a simple program your sponsor will guide you remember it was agreed we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol God bless


Member: Von
Location: Ohio
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 12:48:55 PM

Comments

I made my list, but was never truly willing. There was always a pervading sense of fear in fully committing to being willing. Then I was told to start incorporating needing help with willingness into my prayers. The fear subsided and the willingness grew. Yet I still find that after I make an amend on the list, I still need to go back to step 8 and renew my willingness. Mainly because my amends list is so long and will take a while to complete. What I like most about the 8th step, is that I must become (and try to stay) willing to make amends. That's all it asks.


Member: dr
Location:
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 1:33:35 PM

Comments

hear no evil,see no evil,speak no evil.

draconnomisities


Member: rob
Location: delaware
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 9:21:58 PM

Comments

wow im enlitened now i am ambiance surely you jest to there i came from the house and the dog bit me on the arm i hit at it but my house next two the church the nun came out with naked thjen we had to run by yhe street again i was scary at the dog was too bigger then me we ran faster i m glad were sober toran away.


Member: lu lu
Location: in roo land
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 11:08:12 PM

Comments

joyous and free today


Member: lu lu
Location: in roo land
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 11:08:13 PM

Comments

joyous and free today


Member: lu-lu
Location: on the pot
Date: 2/19/01
Time: 11:36:32 PM

Comments

my name is lu-lu i wipe my roo-roo it smells like doo-doo when i wipe my roo


Member: Jack B.
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 2:23:07 AM

Comments

Hi I am Jack, a real alcoholic.For me step eight,is being willing to do whatever it takes to clean up the wreckage of my own backyard.With step eight I am trying to become part of society again, I don't want the emotional hangovers from my past, I don't want my conscience beating on me because of my past actions.I have to understand that even though I may not have been responsible for all my actions under the influence of alcohol, but I am accountable for them.Most of my list came from the fourth step, and a few came just from recall, sometimes years later.I don't get caught up on who does/does not belong on the list.If my conscience bothers me about someone/something, then I need to do something about it if humanly possible. Thru these steps, we learn to live our way into sober thinking as opposed to trying to think our way into sober living. Thanks for allowing me to share and God Bless all


Member: BilliJo
Location: Chinook
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 12:14:01 PM

Comments

BilliJo, alcoholic, My 4th step started my 8th step list, but did not complete it. There were peope on the 8th whom I did not have any associated resentment towards as in the 4th step. And, there were people on my 4th who did not appear on my eighth. If those two steps were the same list, why do we not just have one list step instead of two? The eighth was hard to do because I do not especially like looking at harm I've caused. But like a festered wound cleaning, that step helped clean me out so I could become useful to God and others.


Member: Debby S.
Location:
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 1:47:17 PM

Comments

I want to quite but can't. I did very well for forty days but why does feeling good make me want to drink again. I have what looks like a wonderful life. Why does it scare me?


Member: Debby S.
Location:
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 1:47:43 PM

Comments

I want to quite but can't. I did very well for forty days but why does feeling good make me want to drink again. I have what looks like a wonderful life. Why does it scare me?


Member: AnilG
Location: Mt vernon,ILL
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 5:16:19 PM

Comments

Billijo I agree with you. step 8 is important making amends to the people we have hurt in the past and in most cases especially me it was the family that has to take the pain first.


Member: CC
Location: CT
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 9:13:32 PM

Comments

Hi all,CC,alcoholic.Thank you for being here. Debbie S., for me, I think I was scared like you because I didn't know what it was like to live without alcohol. Lots of physical,emotional,mental and spiritual changes take place. Sometimes I just took it one minute at a time. As far as the topic, the eighth step, I not only practice that as daily events(offenses) occur, but I had to do a "formal" eighth step, too. I have not yet completed it but I know that as time goes by, the opportunities will arise when they are supposed to. My sponsor always tells me, I'm right where I'm supposed to be! Thanks for reading this.


Member: roo
Location: on the ledge
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 9:58:01 PM

Comments

my name is roo,i have a very good job,i clean pigeon poop off window ledges to earn a living. i collect it with a scraper and buckets.its a fun job.in the winter time we heat our house with it.we pour it in the pellet stove and it burns really well.thats wy my nick name is roo-doo.


Member: lu-lu
Location:
Date: 2/20/01
Time: 10:55:20 PM

Comments

good for you roo.........


Member: rene
Location:
Date: 2/21/01
Time: 12:18:17 PM

Comments

any hobbies roo?


Member: lulu
Location: looking for roo
Date: 2/21/01
Time: 1:45:18 PM

Comments

WHERE IS ROO I WANT TO GIVE HIM BIG KISS


Member: David R.
Location: Southern Va.
Date: 2/21/01
Time: 8:55:34 PM

Comments

David R. here, and another day sober, thank God. Step 8 is a hard one for me right now since I am working on coming to grips with the fact or reality of Step 1 (admitting powerlessness). Granted, I have hurt others and myself with my sixteen years of drinking. While usually not physically, the emotional and mental abuse I inflicted on those closest to to me is something I plan to reflect on, make a list, and try to let them see a calmer, civil, and funner David. Everybody hang in there.


Member: Kahlael S
Location: Northwwest
Date: 2/21/01
Time: 10:00:39 PM

Comments

Hi..Kalhiel here..I'm an alcoholic. It's not an easy thing to contemplate listing all the many, many people over what seems like a hundred years of drinking. I don't have a sponcer.Small town.Tight feelings.I wonder if on-line sponcers are a possibility? I helped create another Alcoholic..my oldest son.I need to make amends to him. Others too. How do I do that? I talk to God a lot.Thanks for listening.God Bless.


Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 2/21/01
Time: 11:18:52 PM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic

Step 8. By becoming willing to make amends is the final part in fixing myself. From step 9 onwards I am thinking of others.

In step 4 I make a list of my resentments. Resent means to refeel. I think of something or someone in the past and I feel angry,guilty, remorseful or ashamed.

In step 4 we deal with anger. By doing the analysis shown in the Big Book I find out what was done to me caused me to be selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and fearful.

Because I was selfish,etc. I did things that I knew were wrong and made me feel guilty, remorseful and ashamed.

In steps 6&7 I am granted God's foregiveness and now must forgive myself. By taking the names on the list and becoming willing to make amends I forgive myself.

Actually making the amends in step 9 is for the other person's benefit. Wnderful program because it works.

Peace and Serenity


Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 2/22/01
Time: 6:55:23 AM

Comments

WILLINGNESS!

Here is the most powerful tool we have against our disease (3 parts) mind, body & soul.

In step 8 I have to develop the willingness which should be present if I have worked the other 7 steps. This program is simple, but very difficult. We have to die of the self. For me collapse of time was critical. As chapter 6 states. In to ACTION not into THINKING. Through these steps GOD has transformed my life.

Love to all!


Member: jeremiah m
Location: ohio
Date: 2/22/01
Time: 1:41:35 PM

Comments

i did this step once and didnt get very far. an old counselor told me to make a list of every one ive met in my entire life, which in my eyes is imposible seeing how im a very sociable person i worked on it for about two hours and gave up any ideas anyone?

thankx bye


Member: Pam B
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 2/22/01
Time: 3:00:26 PM

Comments

Hi - I'm Pam, an alcoholic,

When I did my Step 4 is where I BEGAN the list of persons I had wronged or harmed (or as some say, my first of 2 lists. One in Step 4, and the completion of it, or "2nd" list, in Step 8).

The Big Book tells us that at whatever age we first used alcoholically (my own words, because to me a drink or drug is the same)was only a symptom of our disease: It lets us know that back at that age, something was already wrong.

To me, its letting us know we already had this progressive disease PRIOR to whatever age we picked up that first drink (or drug), and by that point had progressed to the point where we reached out to use alcohol (drugs) as a form of "self-medicating" our dis-ease.

So, to me, its very important to go back over the earliest ages I can remember when doing my Step 4 and my Step 8, and then come forward in chronological age-order (Toddler/pre-school, kindergarten/elementary school years, Jr High & High School and so on) when compiling my Resentment List to begin my Step 4, and when compiling the completion, or 2nd List of Persons I Had Harmed in Step 8.

I was 9 years old the first time I drank a beer alcoholically and experienced those magical affects of how it could change me from explosive frustrated raging non-acceptance of "life on life's terms" into being totally accepting and At-ease about everything exactly as it was at the time.

And I had PLENTY of anger & resentments prior to age nine, just as I had plenty of wrongs & harm I'd done others prior to age nine. My drinking/drugging didn't make me do it. It may have added to things I may'be wouldn't have done if not under the influence - but either way, I am the one responsible for my wrong behaviors and actions against others.

Step 8's list of Persons I Harmed was WAY longer than the list from Step 4, because I had plenty of people I had wronged or harmed, used, conned, cheated, manipulated, was dishonest to, etc etc purely out of my being Selfish, Self Centered, Self-seeking, inconsiderate of others, out for no one but my own self, etc etc . . . and these people were not people I had anger or resentments at. Most didn't even know I had been dishonest or had wronged or harmed them in any way. And what about the ones who never knew it was me that had stolen from them? And things like that?

But I knew. For my own self to grow in ability to get honest with myself, I had to set them all down on paper and own the facts. Step 8 gave me a far clearer picture of the kind of person I realistically had been, than what Step 4 had made the first beginnings at.

These steps are for ourselves . . .freeing us of the blocks and garbage that stand between us and a relationship with our HP. Making Ammends in Step 9 is for mending the damage . . .cleaning up our own side of the street. Whether the recipient accepts our ammends or not is irrevelant. And we never make an ammends to anyone if it is going to further hurt that person or cause harm to any others that may have been involved.

Its very important to work all 12 Steps in the order they're lain out, and working them with a Sponsor to guide you. The goal is not to make a list of people to run up and apologize and portray myself as a nice person now or get them to now like us or something.

Each step is a growing in humility - that pain of deflating our ego, stuffing our fears & pride, to be honest and admit our wrongs, and taking responsibility to right the things we can . . . so we can grow in sobriety and keep it.

We become persons who can hold our head up and know who we are and that we are walking an honest life with nothing to hide anymore, one day at a time, but for the Grace of God.

Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall know Peace. Thanks for letting me share. Pam


Member: William.A
Location: High-Point
Date: 2/22/01
Time: 6:23:55 PM

Comments

Hello,William,alkie,

I made a list way back whenI took inventory during my first fourth step. Those names we placed on a seperate piece of paper that my sponsor had me to look at when I did my next fourth step and at that time I was ready to attempt to make a list of persons I had harmed and become ready to make admends to them all, meaning not to just say sorry but to change the way I did things not only to them but towards others,I was stating that I had become willing to change that part of me that would and could cause harm to those around me and cause ill things to occur in the lifes of unsuspecting--- men and women who I have come into contact with.

I learned that after getting sober in A/A, I could make my list longer if I did not change the way I used to live and stop do those same type of un exceptable behaivior that followed me into the rooms of recovery.

It was explained to me that I needed to be of maxium service to both GOD& MAN this was like the spiritual life it was more that a idea it was the most important fact of my new life..

A/A did show me a new way,It showed me that it was a way to live that was not only doable for me but others would benifit if I could and would take a look at my...

Life is a good thing,lets get it wright this time it may be your last.Please dont take a chance on the last chance.


Member: Elizabeth E.
Location: Southeastern USA
Date: 2/22/01
Time: 10:28:16 PM

Comments

My name is Elizabeth and I am an alcoholic! By the Grace of God and a fellowship of people I do believe love me, I am sober. Making the list was not hard, it was a repeat of my fourth step but becoming willing to make amends to them ALL has spanned over four years of my recovery. I am not always willing and usually stopped in my tracks by fear, embarrassment and pride. I don't even ask for the willingness to make those amends. I still have the list and what I try not to do is add to it! I believe that when God is ready he will make the time. I just continue to trudge this road of happy destiny! Thanks for allowing me to share.


Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 2/23/01
Time: 3:13:17 PM

Comments

Step 8; Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.~

When at the first I took my Pen in hand this for to write; I did not understand that I at all should make a little book in such a mode; Nay, I had undertook to make another, which when almost done, before I was aware I this began.

And thus it was: I was writing of the Way And Race of Saints, in this our Gosper-day, fell suddenly into an allegory about their journey, and the way to glory, In more than twenty things which I sat down: This done, I twenty more had in my crown, and they again began to multiply: Like sparks that from the coals of fire do fly. Nay then, thought I, if that you breed so fast, I'll put you by yourselves, lest you at last should prove ad infinitum, and eat out the book that I already am about.

Well, so I did; but yet I did not think to shew to all this world my Pen and Ink in such a mode; I only thought to make I knew not what: nor did I undertake thereby to please my neighbor; no not I; I did it mine own self to gratify.

Neither did I but vacant seasons spend in this my Scribble; nor did I intend, but to divert myself, in doing this from worser thoughts which make me do amiss.

Thus I set Pen to Paper with delight, and quickly had my thoughts in black and white. For having now my Method by the end, still as I pull'd it came; and so I penn'd it down, until it came at last to be for length and breath the bigness which you see.

May I not write in such a stile as this? In such a method too, and yet not miss Mine end, thy good? why may it not be done? Solidity indeed becomes the Pen Of Him that writeth things Divine to men; Yet loth, will any sober man be to find fault with them, lest he be found for to assault The highest Wisdom.

Let me add one word more. O man of God, Art thou offended? Dost thou wish I had put forth my matter in another dress, or that I had in things been more express? Three things let me propound, then I submit to those that are my betters, as is fit:~ "And now,~ abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

It shows too, who set out for life amain, as if the lasting Crown they would obtain; here also you may see the reason why they lose their labour, and like fools do die.

Would'st thou divert thyself from melancholy? Would'st thou be pleasant, yet be far from folly? Would'st thou read riddles, and their explanation? Or else be drowned in thy contemplation? O then come hither for to read, I say come hither, for yet not I, but Christ liveth in me....


Member: S.N
Location: Iowa
Date: 2/23/01
Time: 11:53:14 PM

Comments

I have not yet made it to step 8. I am only thrity-six days sober and finding it very difficult getting past step 3 (turing my will and life over to my higher power). I have just returned home (Iowa) from a treatmetn center in California and have attended meetings fro the last three days (one a day for 90 days). I hope that some day I will be able to give all to my higher power (which is GOD).


Member: Tony
Location: chicago
Date: 2/24/01
Time: 1:39:54 AM

Comments

Well S.N. keep coming back it works if you work it 8 years sober only thought the grace of GOD and the fellowship of this program has this been possible first 90 days were the most exciting to me i am a miracle !! GOD Bless !!


Member: Paul B
Location: England
Date: 2/24/01
Time: 11:16:28 AM

Comments

Became willing??? Had me for a little while this one. I had no problem being willing to make amends to the ones who I thought I had harmed, no problem at all. But my sponsor asked about the ones who I didn't think I had harmed because I felt justified. No way, I was righteous, I still could feel that anger sometimes. I had to clean just my side of the street you see, and having righteous anger angainst someone, no matter what the circumstances was a form of pride, ego and anyting else you want to throw in there. But worse, I used to drag these out every now and again and screw myself into the floor with them. For my own good I had to be willing to make amends to the people I had harmed even when I felt justified. You see my sponsor taught me that there is a right way and a wrong way of going about things and blasting off at someone, even if justified, or doing worse was not the right way. Speak softly but wera a loud shirt he said. It took me many years to understand what he meant. Taking his advice taught me how to be with people and sometimes I just manage to put it into practice. Thaks. Have fun paul


Member: Carey L.
Location: New York
Date: 2/24/01
Time: 11:31:27 AM

Comments

When I did my 8th Step there were certain amends its was clear to me that I needed to make--people I had committed some kind of violence against, had betrayed, had stolen from, etc. But I, too, was told to look at my 4th Step list to see whom I owed amends to; this was more difficult, because many of these people were people I simply had resentments toward or I felt they had harmed me. When I did the 9th Step, I realized that part of the amends process is for me, not the person I am making the amend to. Sometimes the amend I needed to make was simply to forgive them inside myself. That was very freeing. I've heard people say that they put themselves at the top of their 8th Step list. I agree with that. I believe that I harmed myself as much, if not more, than anyone else; I'm still incredibly hard on myself. And when I come to the 9th Step, I'm always the amend I forget to make!


Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Detroit
Date: 2/25/01
Time: 2:41:52 AM

Comments

I must confess, I haven't done step 8 very well. 8 years ago I had a list of 26 people that I had harmed, but I never really did the second part of the step (become willing to make amends to them). I know that b/c I have never made amends to most of them. I think I need to practice forgiveness first. Forgiveness towards myself and then towards each of the people on the list. Thanks for sharing and letting me share here.