Member: Randy S.
Location: N.East
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 10:51:19 AM

Comments

hello larry,kara,barry,and matt,

i've heard alot of good stuff here today. after drinking and or? for 2/3rds of my life today drinking is just not an option.

all the times i woke up in jail wondering why i was there and what i did the night before.(did i kill some one?,maybe that lady and child i remembered last before i blacked out.(BUT)IT TOOK MANY MANY MORNINGS LIKE THAT 1ST.

i remember setting in jail thinking to my self (well i've lost the best thing i ever had AGAIN. so i addmited my self in a rehab,hardest thing i ever had to do excluding not drinking.

it wasn't until 6-16-01 that i really knew i was done.after being around these groups and tables for 20yrs plus i now have 6-months sober today,and my friends believe it when i say every day is a new record for me.

OK,NOW IS THE TIME TO GET DOWN TO (MY NITTY GRITTY)

LISTEN GUYS AND GAL,I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS FOR IT WAS MY STINKEN THINKEN THAT GOT ME HERE TODAY.(FOR ME)AFTER TRYING EVERYTHING ELSE IT TOOK A PRAYER TO GET ME STARTED AND WITH A LOT OF NEVER ENDING EFFORT I'M STILL AN ALCOHOLIC BUT SOBER TODAY. MAY GOD BE WITH YOU ALL FOR ONE DAY WE WILL SURELY DIE,SO IT IS WRITTEN


Member: Anonymous 1/4
Location: New Hampshire
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 11:42:24 AM

Comments

What is the difference between the spiritual experience and the spiritual awakening? BB pg 44,WE agnostics, "If that be the case,ouy my be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience wil conquer."According to the books some will have a spiritual experience immediately,"appendice,2 pg 569 Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule."BB pg 128,the family afterward,"Assume on thr other hand that father has,at the outset,a stirring spiritual experience, Overnight,as it were,he is a different man. Foreward to second edition,pg xv,"Six months earlier,the broker had been relieved of his drink obession by a sudden spiritual experience" some will begin to have a spiritual experience after begining work on the 5th step,BB pg 75 "We may have had certain spiritual beliefs,but now we begin to have a spiritual experience." Summary to the 12th step says" Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps,we tried to carry THIS MESSAGE to alcoholics ------.


Member: Anonymous 1/4
Location: New Hampshire
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 12:09:03 PM

Comments

What is the difference between the spiritual experience and the spiritual awakening? BB pg 44,WE agnostics, "If that be the case,ouy my be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer."According to the books some will have a spiritual experience immediately,"appendice,2 pg 569 Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule."BB pg 128,the family afterward,"Assume on thr other hand that father has,at the outset,a stirring spiritual experience, Overnight,as it were,he is a different man. Foreward to second edition,pg xv,"Six months earlier,the broker had been relieved of his drink obession by a sudden spiritual experience" some will begin to have a spiritual experience after begining work on the 5th step,BB pg 75 "We may have had certain spiritual beliefs,but now we begin to have a spiritual experience." Summary to the 12th step says" Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps,we tried to carry THIS MESSAGE to alcoholics ------.


Member: CG
Location: Southwest US
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 7:28:05 PM

Comments

Hi! I'm CG and I'm an alcoholic. Bill W. said that he prayed for relief from his obsession for alcohol. And it was taken away immediately. The idea that a person was visited by a Power greater than themselves that had an immediate impact. They gained relief from the obsession to drink. This could be said to be a spiritual experience. A spiritual awakening might be reference to a gradual awareness of the role that a Higher Power has played in one's life. Even if the person didn't have a particular belief before they became aware of this influence on their life.

In my case I've always believed in God but my spirituality was very limited [God I'll get you for those sins, ect]. As I've tried to apply the spiritual principals and suggestions I've learned in AA I've become aware that a Higher Power is out there and that the Promises do come true. That is THE benefit for me. Because when I drank my world was a hollow hell and the committee in my head worked overtime on my self esteem. Every day is a positive day, even at the crummiest there's still something I can learn. And Joy soon follows behind. Thanks for letting me share. CG


Member: joe k.
Location: Huntsville, TX
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 7:56:17 PM

Comments

I ask the reader to forgive me for this post; it would be more appropriate in an email to the individual, but since I don?t know it, it is necessary I post it here. This is in response to a comment directed to me by Trish from Indiana in the Discussion Meeting on December 15:

TRISH: Please... I did not write the comment that ?bashed? homosexuals. My wife and I have many homosexual friends, male and female, and they would attest to the fact that I would not make such remarks. I didn't think a defense was necessary, and I didn?t want to give the pleasure of a reaction to the immature person who wrote the comment using my name. I am often direct with my comments. I don?t share my experience, strength and hope to win ?fans.? I share because I don?t want to die, and because I love alcoholics. I love them enough to be truthful and direct, and not bullshit them with niceties and "careful" words to keep from hurting their feelings; hence, my suggestion to ?get off your duff and go to meetings and get to work with a sponsor.? It is what has worked for me these years, and for countless others since the conception of Alcoholics Anonymous. My reference to yourself and the others was out of line and poorly worded. I was wrong to classify you in any "ranks." Forgive me for the comment. I wished to make the point that repeated behavior yields repeated results. That has been my experience, and has been reinforced by the thousands of relapsing alcoholics I have seen walking in and out of the doors since I have been given the gift of continuous sobriety. I love you, and I wish you, Kara, and Matt the very best in your journey. I always leave my email address so anyone can email me with their comments any time they wish. And, if anyone ever visits the Huntsville AA Group in Huntsville, TX, you will likely find me; say ?hello;? I?ll give you a hug.

TOPIC: Dr. Jung best described what the appendix "Spiritual Experience" describes as the change necessary to bring about recovery from the disease of alcoholism when he told Roland H. that <paraphrase> "the motives, ideas and beliefs that were once the driving force of these men were suddenly cast aside and replaced with new motives, ideas and beliefs." I have read in other Conference approved literature that Bill W. used the two words "experience" and "awakening" synonymously when referring to the mental change necessary to recover from alcoholism. I debated this issue for quite some time in early sobriety before committing to the idea of change. I learned that the mental or "psychic" change is Spiritual because it is brought about by a Power beyond human ability. Long before I could see the change occurring as THE result of working the steps, my sponsor and others outside the program began commenting on the change in attitude and behavior I was displaying. I could not make this happen on purpose if I tried. I have Alcoholics Anonymous and many sober drunks who have done this thing before I to thank for a way of life I could only imagine for others. God bless you in your journey.

joe k. chillbmp@totalzone.com


Member: Rick S.
Location: BC NV
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 8:48:44 PM

Comments

Hello, my name is Rick and I am still an alcoholic. I have had many spiritual experiences in sobriety, the first of which occured on Oct,6,1991. I was stopping at a store for my sixpack and pint of JD after leaving the rehab center my wife was in. (I had done this same routine every day for the 45 days she had been in there) as i was pulling in I said (out loud)"God I should probably not drink to help Deb stay sober when she gets out". I was not serious...he was. I pulled back out of the lot and have not had a drink since. I did not see this as a spiritual experience at the time however...a foggy mind will do that to you. I have had others not so dramatic such as somebody really pissing me off and realizing later that my first instinct of kicking the Shit out of them was not the first thing to enter my mind. What i consider my spiritual awakening happened a short time after i had completed ammends to a few people on my list. A simple truth came to me...if i was to stay sober and continue to change i had to put the needs of others before my own, on a daily basis. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Steve K              
Location: Bethel, N.Y.
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 9:00:57 PM

Comments

Hi Steve alcoholic. I am in a recovery group that has a very hard time distinguishing religion from spirituality. These people believe that if GOD is mentioned it is religions. The state of New York was working on not supporting agencies that use AA in there rehabilitation if AA is a religous organization.


Member: Lyla D
Location: Polk City, Fl
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 9:21:02 PM

Comments

Spiritual experience-hmmm-mine is of the educational variety that William James describes in his book "Varieties of Spiritual Experience" Good book-I recommend it highly. Anyways, I find myself having little awakenings all the time. My Higher Power helps me in everything in my life. When I herniated two discs in my back and had to take pain medication, I prayed everyday. When I no longer needed it, I flushed it down the toilet, with no regrets and no fear. My Higher Power kept me alive when I was drinking and I know that He will take care of me now that I am sober. Happy Holidays to those of you that celebrate them and to those that don't Happy Sobriety.


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 10:48:17 PM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Thanks for the sincere shares! Welcome newcomers!

One part of my spiritual awakening has been that I have come to be aware that I have been living a spiritual experience, i.e. life itself is a spiritual experience for me.


Member: Jack L.
Location: Indiana
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 11:33:00 PM

Comments

The old spiritual awakening. I don't worry to much about it. Since I have went through the steps. It seems things just get better for me. I have found that by doing steps 10 and 11 daily in my life, everything else just kind of falls in place. I try to keep it real simple. I get on my knees every morning and every night. And I help any Alcoholic that the God of my understanding puts in my life. I don't think it would have ever happened, though. If I hadn't worked the first nine steps to the best of my ability. This is how simple I keep it. If it isn't mine I don't bother it. And if I make a mess I clean it up. The spiritual experiances just keep happening.


Member: Jeff B
Location: Northern CA
Date: 12/16/2001
Time: 11:39:29 PM

Comments

My name is Jeff and I am an alcoholic. Spiritual Experience is what I get by trying the "sugested" steps and other actions in AA. I am taking it on trust and faith when I act differently. It starts by not drinking even when I want to. Then I try some prayer, inventory and amends and then helping when I can.

There is a dude that describes it as a "new pair of glasses" - I am in the same place that I was but I am able to see things differently. I am not drinking .. but there is more. When I start wondering if I have any spiritual experience I look at myself when I was at the bottom of my last drunk and then look where I am today. Wow- this is one that I go to the dictionary (Webster's) for also.

Experience-noun - Middle English from Middle French, from Latin experientia - act of trying, from exeriens, present participle of experiri, to try.....

1.direct observation of or participation in events as the basis of knowledge 2.practical knowledge, skill, or practice drived from observation or participation in events or a particular activity. 3. the conscious events that make up an individual life 4.something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through. 5. the act or process of directly preceiving events or reality

Anyway I would not trade the AA experience and the days that I have been sober - its beautiful. I don't have to work until next year and I am heading for the hills of snow. I plan to hit some new meetings and get some more experience.

Thanks to everyone for being here.


Member: moose m
Location: ohio
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 12:38:11 AM

Comments

hey there! moose, alcoholic here. steve, ther is a difference between religion and spirtuality. religion is for those who fear going to hell. spirituality is realised by those who've been there. it isn't any more difficult than that!


Member: Sandra C
Location: Hobart Tas Australia
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 5:20:45 AM

Comments

Hi everbody this is my very first time visiting this website as I only got a computer on Tuesday. God willing I will be sober for five years on the 28/12/01.

I believe that my first real spiritual experience was the one that lead me out of the blue to AA. I was on the edge of suicide when I contacted this wonderful fellowship and have awful trouble finding the words to express my gratitude. My spiritual awakening began with the realisation that I believe in a power greater than myself (i.e. spirituality) not organised religion. I use my higher power to help me live my life on a daily basis, and it takes some work sometime. Without having had some kind of spiritual awakening I don't believe I would be the person I am today.

Love to you all


Member: Mark B
Location: Southwest  Asia
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 6:45:06 AM

Comments

Mark, dope fiend alcoholic. Lyla, I love you girl. OK, having said that, I heard a long time ago that religion teaches man how to die with God. Spirituality teaches man how to live with God. For me, I had to clear away all the old programming, the bullshit I had jammed down my throat regarding God. I had to find something that worked for me. I found that power, and have tapped into him, and he's never let me down. The prayer "Footprints", that so overwhelmed me when I was a newcomer, is today my reality. God carries me, I just do the simple stuff. When I die, me and God we'll go duck hunting together. He's cool about that .

Mark


Member: carlene m
Location:
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 10:48:34 AM

Comments

hi i'm carlene alcoholic. i believe i have had a spiritual awakening but i have to remember i have to keep working for it to keep it alive. that is by praying. as for a spiritual experience i think that is something i have to make my goal to achieve. thank you for letting me share.


Member: Craig L (dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 10:53:08 AM

Comments

It was a Christmas morning, when I regained consciousness alone in my dark and dirty apartment I crawled over the empty bottles to get to my stash and blot out this living hell. There were gifts mailed by friends I was afraid to open, I was afraid to answer the phone, I was afraid to get the mail. I only wanted to die. Out of that abject chaos I heard a clear voice tell me to “get to AA”. That was the beginning of the end of my using career. I came in and out, with short bouts, getting pounded again and again by alcohol, finally into submission. It was after my fifth step, when I revealed every dark cranny of myself, that I felt serenity for the first time. For a week after the fifth, I kept telling people “I feel odd”, it was some time, before I could identify the odd feeling was actually the lack of fear and rage. I could not remember a time before that when I was not afraid. Now I try not to waste energy battling my character defects. As it was shared earlier, today I awaken every day to a spiritual experience. I ask God to use me today as a vehicle of his will. I find joy in the knowledge that God loves me and always has and I can face the unknown with a sense of wonder, rather than fear.


Member: Pam B
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 6:04:38 PM

Comments

Hi All, I'm Pam, an alcoholic,

Congrats on your 6 months (((Randy S)))

I cannot add anything more to what's been said here. Spiritual Experience/Spritual Awakening has been the variety of ways I will suddenly catch myself doing things differently from how I used to perceive & respond to people, places, things (myself & God included) - the Good or Right things that I know I would never have done by my own prior ways of Thinking or old Attitude or unaided Will of my own.

These New ways amaze me & keep me in Awe (Gratitude) on a regular basis, motivating me to keep Trudging forward along that Happy Road of Destiny. (to Trude: to walk with head up & with purpose)

It has always kept my daily walk along this path of Spiritual Progress - an Adventure ever unfolding & looking forward to seeing what may come next - enjoying it all the way.

BB gives us a couple of warnings to heed with "Jim's Story" pg 35 (he drank again because he failed to enlarge his Spiritual Life) & "Fred's Story" pg 39 - (the Solution we need are the simple tools of these 12 Steps that provide the Spiritual Way of Life for us)

I must live these 12 Steps/Principals practiced in all my affairs each day in order to maintain & continue enlarging my Spiritual Life, one day at a time. That New Design for Living.

BB pg 85 "We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our Spiritual Condition." (reprieve: temporary stay of execution of a death sentence)

All Gratitude to God for this Program/these 12 Steps & all of you in the Unity of this Fellowship because I could not do it alone without all of you.

(I like that I heard recently "I been dancing life ever since I got clean & sober in AA - I couldn't dance life before then because I didn't know the steps")

Thank you all - thanks for letting me share.

Pam


Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 9:09:09 PM

Comments

HI Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. Spiritual Experience/Spiritual Awakening. This is somewhat a matter of semantics. Not very high on my priority list and using one phrase or the other will not impact the quality of my recovery.

The key to my understanding of "Alcoholics Anonymous came when I was finally able to "get into Bill Wilson's head". That is to say, I finally began to understand how Bill Wilson wrote. I was then able to get into the spirit of the program as opposed to the letter of the program.

A prime example of this is in the second appendix. In here Bill uses change in one form or another several times. Change, upheavals, revolutionary, ovewhelming, transformations, difference,alteration, all mean change or changing.

When I sat down my last drink, it was sudden and without reason. I just put my last (unfinished) drink on the bar and walked out of the place never to return to a barroom again to drink. I call this Spiritual Experience/Awakening, a Divine Intervention. Now there is another expression to toy with. :)

English Majors will call it one thing, Street Drunks will call it another. The bottom line. It makes no difference. Dick and Jane seek God One through Twelve.

I might mention here while I am at it. I do not get into the Religion/Spirituality aruguments. Regardless of what legislators say. If you look up the word God you will find out that God is not allied with any sect, denonmination, organization, or institution. On top of that, The Bible does not teach Theology. The author of the Lord's Prayer taught Spiritality and Metaphysics and was against organized religion.

Bill

az-bill@mindspring.com


Member: Jeff
Location: Ne.
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 9:46:28 PM

Comments

Hi, I`m Jeff&I`m an alcoholic I think the spiritual eperience & spiritual awakening thats refered to is much the same for me, anything spiritual that i recieved, came s l o w l y for me .I dont think i could of handled much more than that at first. In my mind when i went to my 1st meeting i was sure god didnt want anything to do with me, i knew i was going to HELL for sure because of the things i did when i drank. I would have to say that the "spiritual awakening" did come after the 4th & 5th steps.My sponser & others convinced me that this new found higher power was all inclusive not exclusive , a loving god not a punishing god that i was brought up to believe in.The spirituality that i recieve from AA teaches me to live for today, SOBER. Thats all I need to know for today.Mybe tomorrow I will seek a more deeper spiritual meaning, but for today this is enough. Thanks for being here for me. JEFF


Member: Lessa E
Location: Chicago
Date: 12/17/2001
Time: 10:58:07 PM

Comments

Lessa here, happy, grateful, recovering alcoholic. I usually think of a 'spirituale awakening' as the 'aha' moment. I can best describe it as a moment of clarity when, something someone says or does, or something I read suddenly clicks. It resonates within me and I get some insight into myself or a situation I didn't have before. The 'spiritual awakening' seems to me to be more gradual. And it's usually something I don't notice. At least not right away. It's doing the next right thing when I don't want to do it. It's showing up when I'm supposed to because I promised I would. It's staying after a meeting when I don't really have the time to help out someone who needs to talk. It's not questioning why a sponsor has suggested I do something - it's just doing it. It's reaching out to other people when I feel the least like it - because it's for my own good. And recognizing that it's for my own good when previously I did it because I 'had to'. All these little things.

I get these from the program, from the fellowship and from my HP whom I choose to call God.

Thanks for letting me share. I'm grateful for another sober day.

And, (((Mark B))) - good to hear you're still with us.


Member: Rose
Location: sobriety lane
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 12:37:19 AM

Comments

Congratulations, Randy on 6 months of sobriety!

Randy shared 'stinken think got me here today...a prayer to get me started'....

I am a sick alcoholic who doesn't drink nor has a desire to drink. I'm learning a new way of life odaat by being in AA and applying its principles in my life.

I don't do a hot job of it daily! Sometimes I stink to high heaven! Some times I smell of lavender.

Today, I have a Higher Power. This HP puts miracles in my life causing me to have much gratitude.

Prayer comes deep inside of me and spills out leaving me to be open to my HP to be in my life.


Member: joe n
Location: 6 rivers nat'l. forest   california
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 1:26:38 AM

Comments

hello y'all, i'm joe and i'm an alcoholic.

i'm new to this site and this is my first share here so please bear with me~

the difference between a spiritual awakeing and a spiritual experience is the speed with which it happens, right? least that's what i'm thinking~

i know that i was a slowly. the closest thing to a spiritual experience happened to me when i was at about 28 days sober.

i was having a lousy day, it was a major m-effer. i was walking my dogs along the waterfront in eureka, building a big ole resentment against y'all and AA and sobriety and pretty much everything. and i made the decision that i was gonna go to AA as soon as i got the dogs back home - the 'AA bar and grill'(yes, it exists, right on h'way 101 S, or 4th street, in eureka, CA), and that's where i was gonna start my binge. and it was gonna end when i was dead or in jail. enough of this sh*t. that truly was the decision i made.

so i turned around and headed back toward the car with the dogs and was about 2/3's of the way there when i spotted this guy kinda laying up in the bushes, with the ubiquitous paper bag under one arm. i had never done this before, but this man looked really bad, no color to his face at all and his breathing was real raspy. i went closer to check on him and tried to rouse him. he couldn't have been that dead to the world because he hadn't been there 10 minutes earlier when i had come by going the other direction.

well, i couldn't get any kind of response from him, yelling at him, shaking him and even kicking him in the soles of his shoes. i felt a very weak and erratic pulse, and when i opened his eyelids his eyes were rolled back into his head.

i hustled the dogs to the car as fast as i could and made it to a phone to call an ambulance, then went back to where the man was to direct the paramedics.

they got there and started working on him and got him stabilized and headed off to the hospital. i went back to the car and realized that i wasn't nearly so convinced to go have that drink after all, and decided i'd go to the real AA instead.

now it's entirely possible, if not probable, that this gentleman was there the first time i passed by and i just didn't see him. but one or both of my dog's almost certainly would have.

so maybe that's neither an experience or an awakening, just a plain old spiritual dope slap upside the head?

whatever, i'm grateful for it!

thanks for being here for me.

peace and prayers~

ula, joe


Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, TX USA
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 3:24:21 AM

Comments

Hi Folks. I'm an alkie named Curtis. Don't know that I can add anything new to what's already been wriiten, but will put my comments in anyway. Lessa E mentioned a 'moment of clarity', and that's what I believe that I had on the morning of May 4, 1985. I also believe that it was give to me by what Az Bill called Divine Intervention. What happened wasn't at all unusual. It was Saturday morning, and I came to; figured out I was home, didn't know where I'd been or what I'd done, and for some reason, I didn't want that to happen anymore and was willing to do something to maybe stop it. I'd called AA for years, but never talked to anyone or gone to a meeting. I went to an AA meeting that night and haven't had a drink since. A couple of years later, I was driving from Alice, Tx to Corpus Christi, Tx after attending an AA funeral for Keith that had about 18 years and had bee special to me. I was driving back to work, and crying a little, and all of a sudden, I felt a feeling of TOTAL peace, and that all was right with the world, and Keith was where he needed to be and I was grateful to have known him for a couple of years. Only lasted a minte or so, but I believe it might have been a spiritual experience. [It's what I'd imagined that LSD would do for you, but I never did drugs (:>)] ... Most important, I have had a spiritual awakening as THE result of the twelve Steps, and have a concious contact with a HP that I chose to call God and boss. I rely on HIM. This is the magnificent change for me. I don't want, need, or have to drink today, and that's a miracle. An old alkie from south Texas, curtis093040@selectrec.net Curtis.


Member: Ed G,
Location: Bryan
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 6:31:18 AM

Comments

Hi Ed alcoholic,

My spiritual awakening was the gradual awareness of what my Higher Power does for me. Each day my Higher Power helps keep me sober. As for spiritual experience I believe that has more to do with religion. Keep going to AA meetings and do the steps. Every one have a sober and Happy Holiday.


Member: Mark C.
Location: NYC
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 9:15:06 AM

Comments

Hi, Mark here, alki from NYC.

It's great to see so many people who have been sucssful in using a spiritual experience in getting and staying sober. I've had a few spiritual experiences in my time, but none of the have been connected to sobriety or drinking. Since getting sober with the help of this online group and others more than a year ago, I've moved in spiritual terms from being an unhappy agnostic to a happy atheist. But I don't think that quite counts as a spiritual experience. It doesn't really matter though. What matters is that I don't drink, I don't drug, and I'm happy -- thanks to you guys.

You showed me that it was possible to have no control over alcohol, and to be sober and happy at the same time. Becuase of that, I'm going to celebrate my second Christmas sober. I'd put you in my prayers if I did that sort of thing, but I guess I'll have to settle for keeping you in my thoughts.

Thanks.

Mark C.


Member: PK
Location: UK
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 10:08:56 AM

Comments

Paul here. Alcoholic? Most certainly!

Spiritual, awareness of something, awakening and all that stuff.

I for one can’t put my finger on any specific moment of “what was that”. There is one thing that does steer me in the right way to do things and thoughts, which is my ‘Conscience’ and something else I can explain (period).

The thing ‘Conscience’ in waking hours we can’t do anything about, it’s there everywhere you go, look, refer to anything what so ever. There’s a lot of advice from people around but there’s only one person been in my head since I was born, constantly and will be there till the day I die, that’s ME.

OK, so I may be conscious of that fact as we all are in oneself, but there is something else that can’t be explained.

The feeling of ‘that’s wrong’ when you do something that I/We know is wrong. It just pops up there, then there’s the questioning in the, in head meeting, ‘How wrong’. You know maybe the ‘little white lie’ or the ‘I didn’t say that’ knowing you’re digging a hole for yourself.

There is then the rules that have accumulated in a ‘Conscience’ that you ‘Don’t know where that come from’, (don’t tell me you’ve never had that).

There’s another thought that some ones watching over me, when I’m about to do something and at the last minute get the urge not to, then the next thing something happens, if you’d carried on you’d have been in the shit or worse. That is the unexplained and I don’t know what that that is, some call it a six sense, I call it the unexplained and don’t really care what it is.

Well that’s my experience of what I perceive you are talking about on here, I may have it wrong but there has never been a flash of anything, just plain old realisation of things, often in amazement.

I could go on for ages on this, but I won’t, another time perhaps.

Thanks for letting me share and thanks for yours.

Paul K.

Oh! Have a Happy Christmas and a Very Prosperous New Year.


Member: Marie
Location: Hawaii
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 11:07:39 AM

Comments

I am Marie & I am an alcoholic. The 12th step says "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of working these steps". Every time I work these steps I have had a spiritual awakening even if I am not aware of it. Just being sober for me each day is a spiritual experience. Thank you all for keeping me sober another day.


Member: Gerald B
Location: Lennox, Ca
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 11:30:46 AM

Comments

Gerald B. D.0.S 3-2-82 I was in a hospital in a substance abuse ward. The program was based on AA. They took us to two AA meetings outside the hospital twice a week.Plus three meetings inside the hospital a week. We had classes of various kinds studing the BB, meditation, steps and traditions,, and feelings, were some of classes. I was raised in a strict protestant household. I knew about prayer. Once I got grown I got away from God and church. In the hospital I was trying to regain a contact with my higher Power Praying every morning and night. One night I was praying and it seemed as if God was right there for an instant, and like Curtis T. shared a peace came over Me. I knew everything was going to be alright. The next day at feelings class We were supposed to share how we were feeling at that moment.I shared about how peaceful Iwas feeling.I was on cloud 9. The counseler told me to enjoy it it would'nt last forever.Itlasted about five days before I came down to earth. During that time I lost my desire drink. I quit smoking ten years later the same way. By asking my higher power to take addiction of tobacco away.


Member: larry m
Location: dakota
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 12:10:22 PM

Comments

Iwoke up this morning at 4am after another night of drinking knowing I had to take action to stop the insasne merry go round. I informed my angry ex wife sleeping in the other room ( upset at me for last nights performance ) that I was going to church to pray about my drinking. I arrived at church at 730am and the place was all lit up for christmas decorating, lots of people woking there etc. I didnt think this was a good place to pray in solitude so I left not knowing where to go next. I ended driving over to the local aa clubhouse and stumled into the last half of a meeting shared a bit of my story and ran into 2 old friends. One a old drinking buddy 3 years sober, the other a sponsor I had given up on 2 years ago. They both encouraged me and gave me their numbers telling me to call if the urge hits today. And my old sponsor wants to meet tonite for coffee. My miracle? I dont know but it seems to me God sent me there for whatever he has planned for me. I want the promises. God bless you all and thanks for your online support. email-larymor@hotmail.com


Member: Lionel-c
Location: campbelltown Australia
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 1:57:21 PM

Comments

Hello everyone I'm Lionel alcoholic.

A spiritual awakening to me could be as simple as when I come into an AA meeting Sometimes feeling like shit 'sometimes feeling as high as a kite.Yet almost always leaving feeling centured.Not to high or to low.That is the power of my God working through you lovely people .And this program.Have a great 24

Lionel .C


Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 4:52:13 PM

Comments

Hi all - LeeEllen here and a grateful recovering alcoholic. Some great shares here!!!

I guess for me a spiritual experience/awakening are only a little different. I've had one particular spiritual experience that knocked my socks off. It was the day I got sober. That day, sitting in a bar with my now ex, something happened to me. Out of nowhere, I was "told" to call AA. I didn't want to. I wasn't sure I wanted to quit drinking but knew I should. I wasn't even drunk yet!!! I got in the car and drove home, all the while with someone telling me to call AA. When I got home, my hand reached for the phone -- I tried to put it down cause I didn't want to call. I physically could not. I made the call, got help immediately and the rest is sobriety. I've related this to people, and they look at me like I'm nuts, but it's the truth. God literally took over - both physically and spiritually.

An awakening for me is the realization that I have a connection to God. There are days I forget that and when I'm miserable enough I have an awakening again that makes me know that I can talk to Him, ask Him for help, thank Him for blessings. I had no connection before --- I'm a recovering Catholic as well.

Thank you for letting me share. God Bless and Happy Holidays. Peace, Lee


Member: Carolyn
Location: south east
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 5:52:01 PM

Comments

Hello Family - Carolyn - 100% for real Alcoholic My spiritual exp. for today is as simply as coming here and have each one tell a bit of my story - it never fails and each time my knees get week - thanks for all of you - you have given me life one more time

my first spirtual exp May 2,82 - when i came to that Sunday morn i had a moment of clarity - i knew things i had never known befor - was the first time in my life i knew what was wrong with me - i had always thought i was just crazey as hell - i had spent years in fear of someone finding out just how far off my rocker i really was - i knew they would lock me up in a padded cell from which i would never get out - yet this day may 2,82 i knew i was a alcoholic - did not understand what that ment but i knew i could not live if i did not drink - kenw i could not live if i did drink - knew i did not want to drink right then - knew the day would come when i did want to drink and i would go throught whoever or whatever was in my way and i would drink - i sat in my bathroom alone - looked in my eyes and no one was home - cryed from somewhere deep inside "please God help" - it was not a prayer all i can call it is a cry - my HP came walking in my mind and all i heard was call alcoholic anonymous - for me it was my spirtuality exp - and my life has never been the same

all that for me is DIVINE INTERVENTION and i am so very happy to be here

thanks for being here and thanks one and all for your share - i need all of you in my life

love and the best of thing to each one carolyn


Member: Trish
Location:
Date: 12/18/2001
Time: 7:11:30 PM

Comments

Joe, Thank you for the comments back. I am just here to try and become a better person. I don't need to try to impress anyone. I just want things to be simple. There is no need for any of us to have any conflict. Aren't we all here for the same reason? I guess I took the "homo" comment the way the person did who wrote after you did. (sorry, I can't remember the name) I don't have room to judge or hurt anyone else. I am too busy hurting myself. I too am trying to live day to day, and am not out to win fans, but I also don't need any enemies. I know the comment you are referring to about the person-not your fan or something. I don't know how what I said related to that, but I'm sorry for any confusion. Thanks


Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 1:38:01 AM

Comments

I know I'm only supposed to post once, but an earlier post stated that the twelveth step said "Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of working these steps"., and the actual word preceeding the word result is the, not a. I need some help on this. For many, many years, I've believed that the specific result of working the twelve steps was to have a spiritual awakening. To me, the word a could mean it was a by product of working the the steps, not THE product. Am I too picky? yes, I guess, but my sponsor told me to read it like it was. Your brother in the fellowship, Curtis curtis093040@selectrec.net


Member: john e
Location: nj
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 1:43:45 PM

Comments

Curtis, I don't think you're too picky, you pointed out a very interesting thing. I think "spiritual awakening" covers everything. I recently read a quote from someone that " you don't have a soul, you ARE a soul, you have a body"


Member: Chris H.
Location: FlA.
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 1:49:16 PM

Comments

CHris H.---Alcoholic/addict/bulimic...I don't know the difference between the two spiritual experiences, but I do know that I am greatful to be in this program and to have a relationship with My HIgher Power who I call God...I am greatful to be able to celebrate this season of my faith whith a more greatful heart than I have ever had...all because of my HIgher Power and this program. When things get tough, I have learned through this program to just put one foot in front of the other, and do the next right thing. Things will eventually get better ..I am very greatful for the program of A.A> this season....Love to you all!!


Member: sylvia T
Location: canada
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 2:11:30 PM

Comments


Member: sylvia T
Location: canada
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 2:17:38 PM

Comments

This is my first time on this web site and I would appreciate any guidance from anyone on how to get around! I am an alcoholic and have been sober for 9 months. Spirituality, yes I have been working on this area of my programe as it is the only way that I know I have a guarantee with my sobriety, one day at a time. I just love spiritualal experiences and everytime one comes my way I just say thanks GOD! Thanks for this programe and thanks for all of you. Sylvia sturn50@hotmail.com


Member: Mari
Location: Indiana
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 2:24:03 PM

Comments

It is snowing in Indiana at this moment....first of the season. Won't last...that's o.k. It is just beautiful coming down and I can enjoy this moment because I am sober today!!

I believe I had to have the spiritual awakening first before I started having spiritual experiences. My awakening was a very clear awareness as I stared out the window in a treatment center while watching a mom mallard duck lead about 10 babies over and around and out and in a bunch of puddles in the pouring rain. It hit me that there just had to be a higher power in charge of that miraculous little 'kite string' of babies that followed their mom so diligently.

And then began my awarenesses of that higher power at work in my life whenever I took the time to recognize miracles for what they are. These moments today are my spiritual experiences, and they continue as long as I open my eyes, my mind and my heart.

Life is good...and God has been good to me and to any alcoholic who doesn't have to drink today.


Member: Chris K.
Location:
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 2:26:50 PM

Comments

aloha from the very rainy (at the moment) Hawaiian rainforest. We even have snow on our mountaintops! My first spiritual experience was when I asked God to put meaning back in my life... alcohol & drugs had so effectively wrung out all of the sparkle & meaning. I believe that that prayer was the beginning of the recovery journey for me. Yes, there has been much evidence in my life that God is. At this point in my recovery, i am going through new struggles with trusting God, and it has come as a real surprise to me after 20+ years. There have been times in the past few months when I could not feel God at all, and felt abandoned. It has driven me to a new set of the steps and daily meditation. I am starting to feel hopeful and believe again. What I do know, if past experience is any indication, is that if I am able to walk through this - with the help of you and God as I understand God - I will emerge with a deeper understanding of & relationship with HP. Now that will be a spiritual experience. Sometimes, the most spiritual thing you can do is stay sober, just for today. Thank you for keeping me sober.


Member: mark D
Location: NH
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 5:16:08 PM

Comments

Having the mental compulsion to drink lifted from me when I was drinking a bottle of vodka throughout the course of the day was my spiritual awakening. I can't explain how something that had ruled my waking moments could just go away! some have refferred to it as the gift of desperation. In some ways that is true as I had to follow through and not drink. But I had been scared and angry and desperate before and still gone back. No, this madness that would push all rational thought away in a single minded drive to get hold of a bottle was taken away. I never want to forget what it was like to start my day and end my night with my mind racing around booze.


Member: TMG
Location: North
Date: 12/19/2001
Time: 5:57:21 PM

Comments

Speaking of being scared, angry and desperate, look here:

http://www.geocities.com/tmgnorth/ter.html


Member: joe k.
Location: Huntsville, TX
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 2:10:56 AM

Comments

TRISH - I see you have a wonderful heart. No enemy here; no hard feelings. I was just wanted to admit my wrong in classifying you or anyone else in a "rank," and to let you know there are those who get their feelings bent and pretend to post under other names. I admit to being an a**hole at times, but not a biggot. Joy to you on your journey one day at a time.

MARI from Indiana - I too find spirituality in the things of nature; we are all a part of this loving care and guidance. It has been a wonderful experience for me to realize I am not alone or abandoned in this world.

CHRIS K. from Hawaii - Thank you for sharing your experience. It is good to know that even long term sobriety still has its struggles; makes us with fewer days know there is hope in periods of stagnation as well as growth. My sponsor, Bill T. always points me to that page in the 12&12 where it is realized that there are times when we can't even seem to pray; that it is okay by God; to return to prayer as soon as we are able. What a WONDERFUL thing to know I don't have to be a "spiritual giant" ALL the time! (By the way -- you wouldn't happen to know Susan Tovar in Texas, would you?)

Thank you all for sharing your experience, strength and hope and contributing to me being sober another day. God bless you all on your journey through sobriety.

joe k. chillbmp@totalzone.com


Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,IL
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 8:20:48 AM

Comments

A spiritual awakening/and spiritual experiance to me could be as simple as when I come into an AA meeting Sometimes feeling bad or going to the church not feeling to good but after I have attended the ceremony I feel like I am more relaxed feeling of eternity on earth. calm/forgiving having no resentments in my heart that nothing with bother me at that moment .Yet almost always leaving feeling centured.Not to high or to low.That is the power of my God working through you lovely feeling that is I cal spiritual experiance. thanks to aa and alanon members.


Member: LDS
Location: CO
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 9:16:25 AM

Comments

HI, MY NAME IS DARREL AND TODAY I AM SOBER, MY SPIRITUAL AWAKENING CAME WHEN I TOOK OUT THE FRONT WINDSHIELD OF MY BRANDKNEW TRUCK WITH MY FACE, AND BLEW A .265 AND WAS LAID UP FOR A MONTH, THANK GOD I LIVED. THE SPIRITUAL EXPERIANCE I HAVE COMES EVERY SUNDAY AT CHURCH FEALING THE SPIRIT AND BEING AROUND OTHER SOBER PEOPLE THAT DO THE THINGS THAT WILL KEEP YOU HAPPY AND SOBER, EACH AND EVERY TIME I READ THE SCRIPTURES I HAVE A SPIRITUAL EXPERIANCE.


Member: Marie
Location: Hawaii
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 11:45:05 AM

Comments

My name is Marie and I am an alcoholic. Sorry Curtis L. for the error in my posting. From now on I will E-Mail you my posting before I post again here. Thank you.


Member: Gage
Location: South
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 12:33:53 PM

Comments

I'm Gage and I am an alcoholic. I think I'm beginning to understand that all of my experiences have the potential of being spiritual in nature if I want them to be. I count among them the first time I caught myself laughing with others in a meeting and later on that evening, sharing a good laugh with my wife. There's the first time I wept without feeling ashamed. I very much agree with the person who said in an earlier post that the spiritual is about living. A friend of mine puts it this way: We are all on a journey upon which it is not the destination that is important, but the journey itself.

My spiritual awakening, then, has been to do as the term implies: wake up to the spirit; become aware that there is a spiritual undercurrent that lay beneath what I have previously thought of as reality. The spiritual is reality. The other, a world that is all nuts and bolts, flesh and blood, THAT'S the illusion of reality.

One thing that is really important in my experience of all this is that it has all been voluntary on my part. It was fear that brought me to AA, but it isn't fear that has kept me here. Or at least not exclusively. It is the fact that I feel more in tune with the spiritual reality, more alive than I've ever felt, when I am sharing that reality with other alcoholics. We refer to AA often as "the program", but I think it's equally if not more important to focus on the fact that it is a fellowship. However personal our experiences of the spiritual may be on an individual basis, there is a common spirit that runs through our fellowship, and just a small taste of it has had me craving more.


Member: anonymous
Location:
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 4:15:46 PM

Comments

To Anonymous 1/4: The most wonderful aspect about AA is that I don't have to understand the program for it to work. As a matter-of-fact I understand AA less today then when I first got here. Yet, I am still sober. All that is required of me is to take the steps and the results of sobriety follows.

Now the first paragraph on page 569 of the Big Book states that both terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" show or demonstrate the same results..."the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery". Therefore, what you choose to call "them" is of no matter. Because you're only looking for results. Funny, how wine is fine but liquor is quicker. And when I ran out of one I just drank the other. Why? Because I was looking for results. And when booze no longer gave me the results I wanted, then it was time for me to seek that which did.

Which brings me to page 60, "(c) That God could and would if He were sought." In order to be relieved of my alcoholism I must seek my God. Easier done than said. The steps were my way out. The steps are my way of seeking today. If I try to figure this thing out then I'm just playing God. Good Luck---Get Busy---Don't Die.


Member: Ray W
Location: Calgary A.B.
Date: 12/20/2001
Time: 11:19:25 PM

Comments

After gathering some time in sobriety I have repeatedly arrived to places beyond what I thought I would ever reach again. I always have a good laugh at myself how I let myself walk with a druken limp out of habit.( not physically) Everyday is better than the day before and that is what is now difficult to accept.


Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto,Pa
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 2:28:06 AM

Comments

Hi, I am Jack, a real alcoholic. Spiritual awkaening is described in our Big Book as a unique personality change. This does not happen overnight, it is the results of making the 12 steps of A A our way of life. The spiritual awakening for this alcoholic is today I know that God does for me what I am not capable of doing for myself. My former sponsor once told me, that we are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Thanks for allowing me to share and God Bless.


Member: Dee
Location: USA
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 3:55:52 AM

Comments

Page 570 of the 3rd edition Big Book in the Spiritual Experience Appendix says : We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

Somebody once told me that the spiritual part of the program is like the round part of a basketball.


Member: carlene m.
Location:
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 9:17:00 AM

Comments

hi..carlene alcoholic! coming to this site every morning and sometimes at night is in a way a spiritual experience. it's so hard to have the strength to stay sober sometimes but when i read of all your experiences it gives me the courage to keep praying and stay sane and sober. thank you!!


Member: Lyla D
Location: Polk City, Fl
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 6:19:28 PM

Comments

Gage, thanks-loved the idea of the first laugh and the first cry w/o shame being spritual experiences for you. Put's it in a whole different perspective for me.


Member: Ron L
Location: Miami, Florida
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 9:16:16 PM

Comments

Hi, Ron, an alcoholic. My spiritual wake-up call came two weeks ago while bringing a six-pack from a convenience store back to my hotel room at the Marriott Marquis in Atlanta. On the way, I passed a panhandler holding a glass container in a brown bag.

When I got back to the hotel, the realization dawned that the *only* difference between me and that guy on the street was that I had a nice warm hotel room and enough money to buy my alcohol easily.

Owing to the nature of my addiction, that nevertheless didn't keep me from washing down the six-pack that evening. But the thought has been with nagging me daily since. I consider it a spiritual awakening since I passed these guys many times before on my beer runs. The awakening was so compelling to me that, well, it got me to begin the recovery process and it got me here to exchange experiences with you. Frankly, it has made all the "why I'm not an alcoholic" excuses I have been using for years seem self-deceptive and hollow.

It had to be a higher power that caused the switch to be flipped. Thanks for being here.


Member: AAYAH
Location: GRANITE STATE
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 10:04:06 PM

Comments

SPIRITUALITY;the quality or fact of being spiritual, incoporeal or immaterial. incorporeal;not coporeal or material;insubstanial. of,pertaining to, or characteristic of nonmaterial beings. Corporeal;of the nature of the physicial body; bodily. material; tangible If a person claims a((SP)) by corporeal, material,physical,natural observations,encounters,exchanges,how can it be SPIRITUAL????? There is something called SPIRITUALIZING, ,meaning; to make spiritual, to invest with a spiritual meaning. NATURALISM;philos, the view of the world which takes account only of the natural elements and forces excluding the supernatural or spiritual. How many types of SPIRITUAL experiences is Bill W. talking about in the BB ?????? Is it important to understand the full implication,meaning,interpretation of, get insight into the SPIRITUAL Experience ?????? Some here seem to at least associate the removal of the drink problem, that is,the obsession for alcohol as an spiritual experience. And I'll agree with at least that much,but is that all there is to it? Pg 66 BB But for the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a SPIRITUAL Experience,---. If a person doesn't know what a ((SP)) is,by the BB, how can he work on the maintenance and growth of it? It has been my experience working with others who were going in + out of the program for 10 to 20 yrs,some having yrs of sobriety. After asking them if they have had a((SP))an usually they would say they didn't or didn't know what it was.Then after showing,helping to see,find the ((SP)) by the BB,then knowing what an((SP)) was,an looking back,that it was only because they lacked an understanding of the((SP)) that they kept going back out. some saw that they had,had an ((SP))an didn't even recognize it. Not recogizing it they couldn't do the maintenance or growth of it. As for myself I was sober yrs,mouthing the words of attribution to a higher power,"sober by the grace of GOD",feeling pretty comfortable in all areas of my life,not knowing what an ((SP)) was and probably not wanting to know because of one of those root fears.I thought I had what I wanted,needed.Didn't have to look any futher.12+12 step 4 "These fears are the tremites ceaselessly devour the foundations of whatever sort of life we try to build." "Pride says,you need not pass this way....and Fear says,you dare not look! Looking back I think I can honestly say that my sobriety was probably percarious at best until I finally got IT. And there seems to be another problem with the((SP)). Some people have allowed themselves to be misled into believing that they have had a((SP))or((SA))and believing they make no attempt to find,get,aquire the ((SP)). 12+12 step 12 "These distinguished men had the nerve to say that most of the alcoholics under investigation were still childish,emotionally sensitive, and grandiose.


Member: Les M.
Location: San Diego
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 11:01:40 PM

Comments

There is this little guy standing at the podium at my home meeting and he is saying that if you do the steps of AA off the wall your programs going to be off the wall. He then pointed dramatically at the wall were a framed poster of the steps was hanging. I assumed he was inferring that if my program is off the wall my life would be off the wall. I had only been sober a short time and I had seen this man before, but I believe that was the first time I actually heard what he was saying. I suppose up to that point I thought the steps were self-explanatory.

At the time I was an atheist and really didn't think I would be able to take the steps anyway, but the man's statement did make me look in the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous." Found that I really did not understand any of it, but I did not want to start drinking again. I tried to follow the directions, but got nowhere. Finally, out of fear, I gathered what courage I could summon and asked for help. I was told to act as if I believed in God. So I began to pray. I prayed that God would reveal himself to me. Ignoring the second step my sponsor and I and a number of other sober alcoholics went right ahead taking steps 3 through 9. What became very apparent was that all but the first two steps and the 6th step of AA require action. Something had to be done. Just thinking about it would not do. Step 3 required saying the Third Step Prayer with another person. Step 4 required me to write stuff on a piece of paper. Step 5 reading what was written on the paper to another human being. Step 7 was to say the Seventh Step Prayer. Step 8, make a list of the people and institutions I had harmed. Step 9 hustle around her and there and make amends from the step 8 list.

Before I was half way through with the amends I needed to make I began to notice a change in my thinking. For one thing I meant the prayers I had been taught to say every day. The third and seventh step and the serenity prayers. I began to have a spiritual awakening. It was like walking from a dark room into the sunlight. I could see things clearly. I began to see my real place in scheme of things. There were times when I felt happy, joyous and free. I began to realize that I had come to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. There were even times when I thought I was sane.

Still the obsession to drink was a most frequent companion. The energy used up in not submitting to my desire to drink was wearing me out. Then, one day, I was walking to the library to return some books. There was liquor store between my place and the library which I had to pass coming and going. Passing by that store on the way fed my obsession to drink. On the way home I just knew I was going to buy a bottle. The desire to buy a bottle of booze filled my mind. That's all I could think about. Suddenly, I felt I was outside myself and discovered that I had past by the liquor store. I felt a tingly sensation along my scalp and down my back and the obsession to drink had gone. All this happened more than fourteen years ago, but I remember it as if it were yesterday. The obsession to drink has never returned. I suspect I have been restored to sanity and there is no doubt in my mind that God, as I understand God has done the restoration.

So how shall we label my experience? Did I have both a spiritual experience and a spiritual awakening? If these occurrences are to be labeled I suppose I had both. Another thing I know for sure is that I could never have "thought my way into right action I had to act my way into right thinking." As long as I keep acting in the same manner I learned at the beginning of my sobriety I suspect everything will be OK.


Member: Les M.
Location: San Diego
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 11:02:19 PM

Comments

There is this little guy standing at the podium at my home meeting and he is saying that if you do the steps of AA off the wall your programs going to be off the wall. He then pointed dramatically at the wall were a framed poster of the steps was hanging. I assumed he was inferring that if my program is off the wall my life would be off the wall. I had only been sober a short time and I had seen this man before, but I believe that was the first time I actually heard what he was saying. I suppose up to that point I thought the steps were self-explanatory.

At the time I was an atheist and really didn't think I would be able to take the steps anyway, but the man's statement did make me look in the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous." Found that I really did not understand any of it, but I did not want to start drinking again. I tried to follow the directions, but got nowhere. Finally, out of fear, I gathered what courage I could summon and asked for help. I was told to act as if I believed in God. So I began to pray. I prayed that God would reveal himself to me. Ignoring the second step my sponsor and I and a number of other sober alcoholics went right ahead taking steps 3 through 9. What became very apparent was that all but the first two steps and the 6th step of AA require action. Something had to be done. Just thinking about it would not do. Step 3 required saying the Third Step Prayer with another person. Step 4 required me to write stuff on a piece of paper. Step 5 reading what was written on the paper to another human being. Step 7 was to say the Seventh Step Prayer. Step 8, make a list of the people and institutions I had harmed. Step 9 hustle around her and there and make amends from the step 8 list.

Before I was half way through with the amends I needed to make I began to notice a change in my thinking. For one thing I meant the prayers I had been taught to say every day. The third and seventh step and the serenity prayers. I began to have a spiritual awakening. It was like walking from a dark room into the sunlight. I could see things clearly. I began to see my real place in scheme of things. There were times when I felt happy, joyous and free. I began to realize that I had come to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. There were even times when I thought I was sane.

Still the obsession to drink was a most frequent companion. The energy used up in not submitting to my desire to drink was wearing me out. Then, one day, I was walking to the library to return some books. There was liquor store between my place and the library which I had to pass coming and going. Passing by that store on the way fed my obsession to drink. On the way home I just knew I was going to buy a bottle. The desire to buy a bottle of booze filled my mind. That's all I could think about. Suddenly, I felt I was outside myself and discovered that I had past by the liquor store. I felt a tingly sensation along my scalp and down my back and the obsession to drink had gone. All this happened more than fourteen years ago, but I remember it as if it were yesterday. The obsession to drink has never returned. I suspect I have been restored to sanity and there is no doubt in my mind that God, as I understand God has done the restoration.

So how shall we label my experience? Did I have both a spiritual experience and a spiritual awakening? If these occurrences are to be labeled I suppose I had both. Another thing I know for sure is that I could never have "thought my way into right action I had to act my way into right thinking." As long as I keep acting in the same manner I learned at the beginning of my sobriety I suspect everything will be OK.


Member: timothy allen
Location: gold coast australia
Date: 12/21/2001
Time: 11:54:42 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Tim and I'm an alcoholic Congratulations on your 6 months of sobrity Randy. I don't know a whole lot about the spiritual part of the program, so I just come in here and read about what people have to say and see whats going on. What works for me is going to meetings,listing to people, and working it. Everybody has there own way I feel, and they should find and work it.THANK YOU


Member: luke w
Location: west
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 12:33:03 AM

Comments

luke..standard can't stop when i want to drunk. spiritual experence....think about how wake up in the morning....slow spiritual awakening...you don't even think about waking up, you just do.


Member: Ted T
Location: Ohio
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 7:58:43 AM

Comments

Hi all, Thank you for being here, Les what a beautiful story, you have shared, what I see in that story is the "HOW" of how it works......Honest, Open-minded and Willing. Come share with us on Sunday at http://home.columbus.rr.com/yah/ This will be a first meeting for this cyber group, so it should definitly test all of our patiences.......lol, God Bless, Keep coming back.......


Member: ANONYMOUS1/4
Location: New Hampshire
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 8:55:49 AM

Comments

So when a person reads pg 44 BB "--you may be suffering from an illness which only a SPIRITUAL experience will conquer"or pg xv "the broker had been relieved of his drinking by a sudden SPIRITUAL experience" and ask how do they git it, I guess I could suggest to them to go an look at some ducks + ducklings. Being from New England area they might be hard to find in the winter,especially ducklings? Guess the person will have to wait till spring? Hey I really appreciate,can get really asorbed in natural things,but not to the point where it becomes a form of worship. Pg 58 BB" Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path". PG 17 "WE have a way out on which we can absolutely agree,and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action". PG 161 BB "Being wrecked in the same vessel,being restored and UNITED under ONE GOD" I certainly cannot feel united with some,"most" of the opinions expressed here or in f2f meetings. Like those that say that experience + awakening have the same meanings. Funny,my RANDDOM HOUSE DICTIONARYOF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE doesn't define them both the same way. Yes, the books do say that in AA no one can force,compell anyone to believe,adhere,conform to the suggested steps or traditions, Trad 1. It also says"The unity of AA is the most cherished quality our society has.Our lives, the lives of all to come,depend squarely upon it. UNITY;The state of being one;oneness. Absence of diversity;unvaried or uniform character.Oneness of mind,feeling etc as among a number of persons. SYN concord,harmony,or agreement. AA COMES OF AGE,pg 262,chapt 5,"The problem was;how to translate the spiritual experience into universal terms without letting it evaporate into mere ideals and generalites---you could question the interpretation but you couldn't question the experience itself. I didn't get an understanding of the (SP)by people,f2f meetings,anything natural,by anything of the 5 senses,I got it by reading the books an asking GOD to help me understand so that I might carry that message to the next alkie. "Belief meant reliance,not defiance." "refusing to place GOD first we had deprieved ourselves of HIS help". Thats all I did for the most part,read the books and asked HIM for help to get knowledge,uderstanding,insight into the things of the AA program. BB pg xxx I earnerstly advise every alcoholic to read this book through and through,and though perhaps he came to scoff,he may remain to pray.


Member: Fred B Good
Location: Sunny South Florida
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 1:02:00 PM

Comments

My sponcer gave me a new Big Book for Christmas. What a wonderfull gift. Happy Holidays Dont drink today.


Member: eddie t
Location: smoky mts
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 3:00:12 PM

Comments

hi group, i,m eddie and a alcoholic that is his own worst enemy. i came into aa in 1983 and stayed sober for 14 years, so why did i quit doing what was keeping me sober? i don't know except that i still held some belief i could drink again without it becoming a problem, i CANNOT. i hope and pray i can get back into recovery and feel good about the world and myself


Member: BILL W
Location: THE LANGUAGE OF THE HEART
Date: 12/22/2001
Time: 4:07:29 PM

Comments

JULY 1965 It is an historical fact that practiclly all groupings of men and women tend to become more dogmatic; their beliefs and practices harden and sometimes freeze. This is a natural and almost inenevitable process. All people must,of course,rally to the call of their convictions,and we of AA are no exception. Moreover, all people should have the right to voice their convictions. This is good principle and good dogma. But dogma also has it's liabilities. Simply because we have convictions that work well for us, it becomes very easy to assume that we have all the truth. Whenever this kind of arrogance develops,we are certain to become aggressive; we demand agreement with us; we play God. This isn't good dogma; it's very bad dogma.It could be especially destructive for us of AA to indulge in this sort of thing. BILL W THE LANGUAGE OF THE HEART,article RESPONSIBILITY IS OUR THEME


Member: joe k.
Location: Huntsville, TX
Date: 12/23/2001
Time: 12:32:19 AM

Comments

EDDIE T. from Smokey Mountains -- It sounds as if you are looking to do something about a drinking problem. Since you know what works, there is little here anyone can tell you that will be new to you. However, let me offer my encouragement to carry yourself to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and ask for help as honestly as you know how. I'm sure you won't be dissappointed.

God bless you on your journey.

joe k. chillbmp@totalzone.com


Member: rich r
Location:
Date: 12/23/2001
Time: 4:12:02 AM

Comments

"What is the difference between the spiritual experience and the spiritual awakening?"

I heard this on a tape by Rabbi Twerski, so it's not original, but I really liked it and it stuck with me and I love to repeat it. He said he had an early morning flight to catch out of Pittsburg and it was REALLY important. So, he set his alarm clock for 5am (or whatever). Now when the alarm clock would go off, he would have AN AWAKENING. But, he knew himself! He was likely to reach over and hit the snooze button and go back to sleep. So, in addition to setting the alarm for 5am, he also moved the alarm to the other side of his bedroom so he would have to GET UP and go shut it off. He figured in the process of getting up and walking across the room, he just might STAY awake long enough to realize he couldn't go back to sleep or he would risk something bad happening.

What I got out of that is, I have had many (spititual) awakenings (or wake-up calls) with my alcoholism. But, until 12/12/90 I chose to go back to sleep (alcohol). In 1990 when I had my last (hopefully) wake-up call, I chose to go to my first AA meeting and that has kept me 'awake' lo these 11 years. Get it?

Thanks for letting me share. This is a g-r-e-a-t place for me to come!


Member: QUESTION
Location: QUESTION EVERYTHING
Date: 12/23/2001
Time: 8:31:28 AM

Comments

QUESTION....I've been asking those questions since coming into AA. If I were to write down all the answers,comments,responses I'd probable end up with a pile of writings as big as a house,a very large house. So the QUESTION is,if an AA "member" gets the spiritual experience or spiritual awakening by following the AA path,like it says on pg 75"Once we have taken this step,------ but now we begin to have a spiritual experience". Or pg 60 "Having had a spiritual awakening as the RESULT of THESE STEPS", WHY can't they be explained by the books??? Did the writer just throw those words into the book without intending to answer explain,or give any meaning to the subject???? Or does a person has to sort through a very large size house ,collection of comments,opinions,sayings,natural nonsense,idealisms,realisms,spiritizing,infinite B###S### ? BB pg 27 "alcoholics have had what are called VITAL spiritual experiences","in his case they did not spell the necessary VITAL spiritual experience",pg 155 "A spiritual experience, he conceded,was absolutely necessary.".....VITAL;of or pertaining to life:vital processes.being the seat or source of life. necessary to life. necessary to existence,continuance or well- being something;indispensible;essential.effecting the existence,well-being,truth,etc,,of something. of critical importance. SYN,important,critical. ANT,unimportant. "The answers will come "if"your own house is in order"> MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU-UNTIL THEN.