Member: curious
Location: very curious
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 2:58:46 AM
lack of power, that WAS our dilemma....the traditions (pick one).....
Member: Anne T
Location: Alberta
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 3:07:22 AM
How about Tradition Five:
"Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."
Member: LU-LU2001
Location:
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 4:52:06 AM
sad but, seems now adays it would have to depend on "WHAT MESSAGE".... heard 'bout a guy in ILL-inois asking if anyone "knew some guide lines....his group could use to keep a guy who relapsed out of 'THIER' meeting..." OH THE HORRAH, THE HORRAH.... BAD,BAD,BAD,BAD LITTLE A.A. HEADS....I wonder sometimes,what is going on in A.A., what about those traditions, thank god for tradition 3,thank god no one had the audacity OR power to send me away,cause god knows i can do the provication thing... then AND NOW!((((((so get over it all of you in the "i hate lu-lu club)))))te he he..now now, don't shoot the messenger... te he he...THE NEWCOMER IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THAT ROOM SOME WHERE IN ILL-INOIS... i just wanna run and tell Bill W. on um.. sad when i first saw the words i was madd, now it just makes me sad, whats happening to A.A. can't we just trust when it says, Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed OUR PATH.....(AND DON'T GIMMIE ANY OF THAT more will be revealed crap)when they wrote OUR PATH, it's NOT plural, like; my way, her way, his way ,treatments way, hazeltines way, etc.etc.etc...yah yah, we will all have our own "trip"..what ever,NEVER THE LESS rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed OUR PATH.... THEY SHOULD ALSO HAVE WROTE;and most people who go to treatment centers to be bombbarded with pshyco-babble and hook-up with thier inner child, will MOST LIKELY drink again...and AGAIN,AND AGAIN..untill they either die or hopefully pick up the spiritual tools laid at thier feet..and as some poly-anna might say: "I'm ONLY speaking from experience!" I got one of those 25,000 dollar books....6 long years before i REALLY got to A.A.
Member: raidy m.
Location: a much better place
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 5:16:39 AM
The traditions are /is what holds AA, and our groups, together.If we do not work together,be together in those rooms,most of us will probally die. I believe that, I must be sitting in one of those chairs,for when the next, suffering alcoholic(s), walk in.
Member: Toni M
Location: Waldport, OR
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 12:17:49 PM
Tradition 5 - I must carry the message or I won't be able to keep my sobriety. My DOS is 8-27-73 & I continue to be very active in the program. I am committed to sobriety & to going to mtgs & to grow Spiritually.
Member: rashad
Location: iran
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 1:04:25 PM
hi tony, your living way to close to yahats,lincoln city right? rashad
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 2:17:36 PM
Interesting phrase in the Long Form of Tradition Five.
"Each Alcoholics Anonymous group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose - that of carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers."
"Spiritual entity"?
Now, what the heck does THAT mean? <grin>
best, Jeff Recovery in AA website: http://home.earthlink.net/~jeff24aat/
Member: LU-LU head Angel
Location:
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 2:27:42 PM
HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM, what does THAT mean...sorry all you spiritul twits in the 'i hate lu-lu club' but i've got to ask (((((ZANE)))))))))Zane? what would you say 'spiritual entity' means?
Member: Andy
Location: Texas
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 2:35:52 PM
Good topic, sometime we forget that we need to help others in their fight.
Member: zane sells books!!!!!
Location:
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 2:57:53 PM
i still love you lu-lu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lil imposter))))))
Member: dena
Location: or
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 3:36:30 PM
dena, recovering person here and tradition five is good to talk about.we share on line and in doing so we carry our message on.I help others and end up helping myself maybe more than the other person.i feel that each of us reaching out and sharing is part of carrying the message of sobriety,hope and spirituality. we learn to accept what we can not change- each person will say as he chooses and we cannot change that.there are choices of what each of us does in response,me ,i choose to give love, to pray for the other person what i want for myself, and to accept others for who they are. today i am sober, happy and looking forward to a good week.there are problems,most of my own making and only stubbornness keeps me from growing and learning . lu-lu sometimes each of us must think it thru for ourselves and come to our own conclusions.i say a spiritual entity is a group that see life from more than the material aspects and live a ccording to a higher powers will (of their own understanding).I am free in this program to think for myself without fear of others opinions - this is a place where i can think out loud and hear how others are thinking. i am grateful for this forum and i hope we all keep coming back. so group let's keep carying the message of hope and sobriety for those who come here in recovery dena
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 4:02:33 PM
Lulu writes: >"HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM, what does THAT mean...sorry all you spiritul twits in the 'i hate lu-lu club' but i've got to ask (((((ZANE)))))))))Zane? what would you say 'spiritual entity' means?"
Lulu,
You may have missed the grin after my statement.
And just WHO is this "Zane" guy? (ROTFLMAO. Zany will understand why)
Anyway, Lulu, I posed the question concerning "spiritual entity" to bring a little more depth of meaning to the oft quoted short form of Tradition Five.
best,
Jeff
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeff24aat/
Member: Deborah P.
Location: Georgia
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 4:35:29 PM
Everyone must take our program seriously to stay sober. I must go to meetings, read the big book and pray each morning. Talk to my sponsor. Help others in meetings by sharing or just showing up and being on the other end of that phone when someone calls for help. This is how I stay sober. To me a "spiritual entity" is a group of spiritual people clingin together as on the life rafts from a sinking ship. Clinging to each other and their God with hope of survival. Thankyou, Deborah/alcoholic
Member: Jeff R
Location: WI
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 6:20:41 PM
My name is Jeff and I am an alcoholic who has not been sober lately. I do not think that I am special, maybe just weak. I have been going to meetings for two years, but never had more than two months of sobriety. Can anyone relate?
Jeff jrromy@yahoo.com
Member: She's head freak of nature
Location: (if anything)
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 7:00:50 PM
Apparently Lu-Lu and her friends need to seek help outside of alcohol recovery for their mental problems.
Member: (((imposter)))))
Location:
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 7:10:59 PM
yea but you ought to see her underwear collection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(imposter)))
Member: LU-LU PRESIDENT OF
Location: THE I LOVE LU-LU CLUB
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 7:42:09 PM
(((((((((DENA)))))))))THANK YOU for the words, you're a wise, beautiful, kind,and loving woman,THANK YOU, i wanna be just like you if i ever grow up,strong and gentle.but for now, the way i am has got to be "good enough"cause hey i'm WAY better than when i first got here... (((((JEFF C.)))))))))) lu-lu here president of the "I LOVE LU-LU" club,What about the grin...I saw it.. And?hey what do y'think of this?regarding, carrying its message to the alcoholic who STILL suffers...??:could'nt an alcohlic who STILL suffers actually be DRUNK, would it be o.k. to help THAT alcoholic?I mean is'nt that what alcoholics do at times??? or are they just wanting us to help the sober ones? with other things the alcoholic may be suffering from;like oh i don' know, ???'s, steps, tradition study,rides to meetings, trouble with "feelings or the inner-brat".would that only apply to "OBEDIANT" newcomers, or are we to carry the message to the ones who are only 'partially' willing, AND when they say "IT'S MESSAGE" DO YOU THINK THEY MEAN , the message of A.A. or do they mean a message some "A.A group" may have come up with that may not honor all or even a few of the traditions ... and if that be the case somebody ought to talk to (((((((((BOB in ILL-inous)))))))) about tradition 3, cause there seems to be a sick re-lapser out there who's getting the finger(if y'know what i mean) INSTEAD of "THE HAND OFA.A."at the "super sober" meeting, the one where they have ALL THAT RECOVERY...(((((((((((JEFF))))))))))) HELLO lil' NEWCOMER, NOPE,can't relate,sorry... thank god, i bet i'd have been REALLY miserable spending 2 years in A.A. and "chipping" the whole time how bloody depressing, i'm so sorry, don't give up, you keep coming back and HOPEFULLY you WILL "surrender"before you die, but,not to worry, ONCE i saw a 71 year old take a ONE YEAR CAKE!!!GIVES Y' A LIL' PERSPECTIVE EH'NEWCOMER..jeff i know you've "been around" for 2 years but DON'T let THAT FOOL YOU, YOU ARE STILL A NEWCOMMER, so set the pride n' ego aside at least long enough to BE A newcommer,(the willing obediant ones usually do pretty well..sorry)AND what ever you do; DON'T DRINK OR USE , NO MATTER WHAT!!!!g'luck, y'll need it. luv,lu-lu
Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 8:01:41 PM
HI all. Great topic. The traditions are the glue that holds AA together and protects you from jackasses like me.
Our AA symbol, the Circle and the Triangle, the circle represents the world of AA and the triangle represents AA's three leagacies, Recovery, Unity, Service.
This triangle compares to a three legged stool. As such it can stand on its own and support us. Take away any one leg and it will tip and fall.
AA is a package deal.
Thank you very much. I love you and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. :)
For the Trivia minded. Ever wonder why there are Twelve Steps. Twelve Traditions. Twelve Concepts of Service, but only Eleven chapters to the Big Book?
Bill az-bill@primenet.com
Member: denis
Location: norfolk
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 9:03:11 PM
getting cyber is like a box of candy you never know whot you are going to get
Member: anit-lulu
Location: wonderland
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 9:16:23 PM
Just wondering about the topic for the week are traditions and steps not discussed in their own area?
Why are they being brought up here?
Member: norman
Location: iowa
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 9:24:59 PM
thank you, God for the people sitting in the meetings who felt the most important thing they could do was to help me learn to live sober. God help me do the same for the still suffering alcoholic.
Member: srg.at arms
Location:
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 9:52:24 PM
alice in wonderland,
is that supposed to say anti,or did you want a bottle of rid?
Member: darren
Location: ccc
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 11:22:26 PM
back to tradition 5 will you please share.
thank you
as i need it tonite
Member: ,.
Location: w
Date: 11/12/00
Time: 11:41:52 PM
i posted a serios question that nobody answered.
the hand of AA is not always there is it?
Member: AA POLICE
Location: EVERYWHERE
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 12:03:46 AM
No, the hand of AA is not always there - as we see in people meetings everyday. These little drug addicts seem to get away with talking about snorting coke and smoking crack and sticking stuff up their ass to get off and everyone lets them. So what about the Alcoholic who STILL suffers? They are still suffering. And why? Because they suit up, show up, and get an earfull of crap from all of these dick heads with not one, but TWO diseases and walk out the door thinking "I'm not that bad, yet" and then they proceed to kill themselves. They don't kill themselves with drugs, they kill themselves with what? ALCOHOL! Because why? Because they have ALCOHOLISM!!!!! What a fucking concept! So we gave our traditions to those other groups because we are responsible, so why can't we have AA meetings? Because of all the fuck-heads who won't follow this tradition.
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 1:00:51 AM
lulu writes: >"What about the grin...I saw it..And?"
Ok, I may have misunderstood your response.
>"hey what do y'think of this?regarding, carrying its message to the alcoholic who STILL suffers...??"
Uh ... I think it's a good thing.
>":could'nt an alcohlic who STILL suffers actually be DRUNK, would it be o.k. to help THAT alcoholic?"
I think that THAT's a good thing, too. I haven't been on this board for a long time, so please pardon me if I am not aware of a past debate in this area.
>"I mean is'nt that what alcoholics do at times???"
Yes.
>"or are they just wanting us to help the sober ones?"
Are we debating who is an "alcoholic who still suffers"? To ME, that is fairly self explanatory.
>"with other things the alcoholic may be suffering from;like oh i don' know, ???'s, steps, tradition study,rides to meetings, trouble with "feelings or the inner-brat".would that only apply to "OBEDIANT" newcomers,"
Help is help.
>"or are we to carry the message to the ones who are only 'partially' willing,"
Page 96 of the BB gives some pretty good suggestions about this.
>"AND when they say "IT'S MESSAGE" DO YOU THINK THEY MEAN , the message of A.A. or do they mean a message some "A.A group" may have come up with that may not honor all or even a few of the traditions"
Though many may not like this answer ... I take the Traditon to mean the Group's message, (taken in concert with Tradition's Three and Four), even if the Group's messsage may not be loved by all AA members. I've noticed that groups who don't eventually try and practice the Traditions fall by the wayside.
best,
Jeff
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeff24aat/
Member: Anne T
Location: Alberta
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 2:07:07 AM
Thanks Jeff for adding the long form containing the "spiritual entity". I felt that the fifth Tradition did have a place in this discussion group after the sadness, heartache and mixed up people I read about on Saturday night. We all have our problems to deal with and the spirituality of our program has helped me cope with many of them, without alcohol, which was impossible for me before AA.
As for the hand of AA not being there -pick up your phonebook and you will find a listing with a contact number in almost any area.
For those who don't like what the good old timers have to say - think about it -they are sober and most of them I know leading happy normal lives. The program works for anyone who wants what we have and is willing to go to any lengths to get it.
Lulu it does no good to go out to help a "drunk" alcoholic as I have found out for myself several times,it is just a waste of time. Now I tell them if they really want help to call me at 10:00 am the next morning, before they have a drink.
A new way of "thinking" and treating others the way I would expect to be treated, also a capacity to be honest with myself (I never was when I was a drunk) has given me a new lease on life. In the beginning, even making coffee or doing tasks that needed to be done in the group helped me to maintain my sobriety.
Now I am into Service work and,sometimes, even though I would rather stay on the couch and watch TV, I am always glad that I went and did what I was supposed to do.
There are always going to be people in Groups that one doesn't care for or particularly identify with but,living in a small town with a small Group we travel around the District to other Meetings where I have made many friends - friends who have helped me in practical ways when the going was tough.
Sharing and Caring at the tables or at a podium in a Group is good 12th Step work as well as observing Tradition 5. Once I got those first three steps I was on my way and with my Group and my higher power I know I need never go back to the hopeless mess I was before I found AA. When I see newcomers keep coming back it makes me feel so happy that they have found the way too.
I will forever be grateful to AA and hope I will always be there to reach out a hand to others.
Member: LU-LU
Location: ALCOHOLIC/ALCOHOLIC
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:15:10 AM
(((imposter))))))) i KNOW he sells books.. i read books.. must say i dont read non "conference approved" 'recovery' ones but hey, most people gotta earn a living... DID YOU GET A JOB YET? better hurry it's already snowing over here...((((A.A. POLICE)))) JEEEZZZZ, i thought you'de never get here,yeah i find the whole thing regarding "SINGLENESS OF PURPOSE" very frustrating m'self, i drank over 17 years may have missed a total of 15 days and THATS being generous... and although i also did lots of other stuff,pot, crystal, ice, crack, free-base halcion, valume,black beauties,"inadvertantly" smoked heroin more than a few times, bonged qualudes,ect.etc etc, gahhhh thats so gross, can't believe i'm FREE of all that crap...and i have'nt gained the wieght back.... any how, when i was in my first 30 or 60 days, my sponsor cornered me after the meeting,i'd identified as alcoholic/and an... (i don't like to even say it) and told me in no uncertain terms that I was NEVER to do that again!she explained the principal behind,SINGLENESS OF PURPOSE, it was a bit of time ago, but i got the message. she was a big tradition stomping, dyke. every time i fired her and came runnin' back she'd remind me, y' can't fire me i'll allways be your sponsor... she said stuff like, "oh, do you really have to be so unique,and different." you keep it up an'you'll think you are so different that maybe y'just don't belong here... "principals before personalities,'includes YOUR personality too! lu-lu" that means we're not here to water down our principals to suit your nerotic wants!(ouch, that really hurt my inner brat) then i did that silly thing that newcomers/and the un-informed will do,i said it:" WELL, WHAT ABOUT DOCTOR, ALCOHOLIC, ADDICT....?" she laughed,then informed me that EVEN DR. PAUL IDENTIFIES AS AN ALCOHOLIC. by the way i recently found an article from the grapevine where he talks about just that, and that he"s sorry they even put his story in the book, cause of the addicts mis-understanding. yes, drugs are in his story, but he is an alcoholic, (too) and identifies as such ....Soooooo even though in my heart i know i'm a drug addict, i'm ALSO an alcoholic,so out of respect regarding the principal b'hind SINGLENESS of PURPOSE when i'm in an Alcoholics Anonymous mtg. i say i'm lu-lu an alcoholic. and IF for some strange reason i land in a Narctics anonymous meeting (eeeekkk)I respectfully say i'm an addict, does not mean i'm not an alcoholic, I KNOW THAT.also i have noticed over the years there are NOT alot of people with long term sobriety who pull that crap, it's usually the ones who are "in and out" and in seeing THAT ALONE is a good enough reason for me not to even play around with it..
Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West Fl
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 7:07:53 AM
Hello family Charlie Darling a very gratful recovering alcholic, and first I would like to say that Anne T from Alberta you said it all the way it should be and that if we all follow the traditions, and steps we will be better people, and will be able to help other alcholics, and we must remember therebut I seem to but for the grace of God goes I, see this everyday in this island where there is so many bars and alcholics,and I remember where I was at and where I am today, and I am gratful for the AA program as it saved my life, and made me a better person, and I will keep coming back. Thank you for letting me share
Member: Lu-LU's conscience
Location: right here
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 7:20:27 AM
Yo!! asshole!!, Yeah YOU!!! LU-LU
Since you are so keen to point out to the 'DICKHEADS' on coffeepot, 'this site is for anything and everything, including jokes, ANY TOPICS NOT necessarily relating to alcoholism..' OK, granted, over there you can get away with it, BUT have you read the top of THIS and the step and tradition page?? IF you really CAN read (OR get an adult/carer/nurse to do it for you) Go to the top of this one, where it says words to the effect that we should try to keep to the topic under discussion, and share ONCE A WEEK!!! Just one question, which you are probably too fucking SICK to understand or know the answer to) WHAT exactly is in this type of behaviour for you?? You are such a sad pathetic little nonentity, yet claim to know the meaning of 'spiritual entity'?? Yor 'avin' a larf, love!!! HA HA HA!!! BUT seriously, (I assume you DO know the meaning of that word??) HOW DO YOU get off on being a complete and utter moron??? OK, you say that this IS an improvement on what you WERE!!!??? (God bless you, love, I guess progress is good, even to such a pathetic, sick state) BUT I would bet that your 'sponsor' (if you really DO have one) has no idea that you are the one behind all this shit??!! BUT if he/she IS aware of it, well, SOME SPONSOR!!! Totally fucking nuts, if he/she condones your stupidity, even THOUGH you obviously have a good working knowledge of the BB, it really doesn't cut it does it, darling?? Shame really, your experience COULD benefit other, yet you seem determined to destroy something which is of great value to many newcomers and oldtimers alike!! BUT, rest assured, love, it HAS been tried before, time and time again, and you will NEVER succeed in that particular quest, not while there are some good oldtimers around, who have been around since day 1 of this staying cyber site, and who have coped and ridded the site of more intelligent assholes than you who believed that if they continued to spew forth venom it would be US that left. Never happened yet, and never WILL happen, so why not get your act together and USE your knowledge of the BB the way it was MEANT to be used?? You never know, one day you just MIGHT get sober (Sobriety is NOT just about not drinking, Lu Lu is it??)
SORRY everyone else, But this sick bastard is just too much. Hope that I can scroll on by having said what I think/feel.
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 10:24:05 AM
lulu,
You wrote: >"... she said stuff like, "oh, do you really have to be so unique,and different.""
and:
>"when i was in my first 30 or 60 days, my sponsor cornered me after the meeting,i'd identified as alcoholic/and an... (i don't like to even say it) and told me in no uncertain terms that I was NEVER to do that again!"
You might enjoy this article:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeff24aat/page9.html
best, Jeff
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 10:31:22 AM
Anne T. wrote: >"it does no good to go out to help a "drunk" alcoholic as I have found out for myself several times,it is just a waste of time."
Hmmm.... you're right that THEY may not get much out of it, but:
Two oldtimers were sitting there a-talking, and one says, "Well, Joe, I sure was busy last week. I had 10 Twelve Step calls and every single one was successful."
"Whaddya' mean, Sam? I drove by the bar last night and I could see every one of those ten guys inside, drinking like fish."
"Yeah, I know. But, the 12 Step calls were successful. *I* didn't get drunk even once."
<grin>
best,
Jeff C.
Member: dee
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 1:15:06 PM
anybody home today?????????
dee
Member: JimB.
Location: RoiNamur RMI
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 1:30:39 PM
Hi all JimB. here, happy to know I'm alcoholic and grateful to be sober today. I am really concerned with the amount of phsycho babble being posted on this site lately. It seems certain visiters here think the rule about one post a week is good for everyone else except them. Not only that, some of these posts are complete rubbish and reflect badly on this site. An alcoholic in need coming to this site to get the reassurance they need to keep away from that first drink would probably be quite discouraged reading most of this crap. Please all who venture here read the bylaws about posting on this site. Lets get this meeting back on track and make it what it was intended to be, i.e. a place in cyber space where an alcoholic in need can reach out and find the strength to keep away from the first drink. One day at a time.
Member: LU-LUhead Angel
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 1:57:06 PM
((((((((conscience))))))))te he he , ha ha ha ha te te te ha ha ha ha ha ha ha how bout YOU read the beginning of this post, I AM NOT THE TOPIC HERE!!! I myself had some ???s' bout tradition 5,(sorry I DON'T know everything)i know you don't like me though... oh well, not a big deal,ARE you the jerk who said y'only know 2 pgs. by heart? SHAME ON YOU... also i believe i talked about SINGLENESS OF PURPOSE, EXCUUUUSSSSE ME,and i'll bet $$$$ YOU WILL POST MORE THAN ONCE OR TWICE THIS WEEK, a mere reply to this will make 3 if we count the duplicate in the coffee pot.te he he .. sorry your insults carry NO DEPTH OR WEIGHT HERE,i'll tell you what i tell all y' lil 'haters , write about it, pray for me and call y'sponsor.. get over it, carefull resentment, its a killer!!! keep comin' back,sour puss, I WILL TOO..TE HE HE HE TE HE HE HA HA HA HA HA HE HA HA
Member: BonnieM
Location: NH
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 1:57:21 PM
Amen, I agree with JimB, the last time I was on this site was about 1 1/2 months ago, I was shocked and disappointed to see the change in content of the comments. Please keep it simple, don't drink, go to meetings and ask for help!
It works!
What a blessing to be sober today
Member: Bob .S
Location: Salt Lake
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 2:20:25 PM
Hi all, Bob and an alcoholic. I'll be brief. I also agree with you Jim. I also believe that we are not at the same stage in our respective recoveries (not you and I, rather ALL of us) and it shows in our posts here, how we conduct ourselves in general, and our abilities to accept/understand others who are different, which has been said on this site numerous times. I'm grateful that 'diatribe' here or in F2F meetings hasn't kept me away from my recovery but do sorry some, the effect it may have on newcomers. The concept of taking what you want and need and ignoring the rest, is a little easier to discern and do later in recovery, I think. There is room for all of us here, it would just be easier and more enjoyable if there wasn't as much pollution. Really beautiful and sunny here after snowing all day yesterday. Ski resorts opened a month early last Thursday...one of my favorite sober activities this time of year. Grateful to be able to enjoy it. Have memories, still, of having to be loaded on something to do that and about everything else in my life. For those of you who continue to persevere here, thanks for setting the fine example for me..my love and appreciations for your sane, honest and comforting posts. Bob
Member: Sam J
Location: Southeast
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 2:33:03 PM
11-13-1975, My date of sobriety and I am still working on the primary purpose. My record isn't too good though because I have kept myself sober 0 days. My Higher Power has kept me sober for 9,132 days. Common sense tells me to continue letting HP handle things. The very best to all. Sam
Member: ((((im
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 2:55:37 PM
hey lu-lu,
as you can probably tell i still havnt a job yet........got to go shake my lizzard,.......
poster))))
Member: Harry K
Location: U K
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:02:58 PM
What on earth has happened to this site?! I've been away for a few weeks and when I return I not only DON'T see the names I've come to know and love for their sobriety, but a preoccupation with others who not only have anything to offer but have in effect monopolised this meeting. In order to pracice the 5th tradition, it is important to remember the first! Unfortunatly, as vital and important "on line" meetings are, we cannot sift out or exclude those who are content to be disruptive and devisive in their cloak's of anonymity. The empty barrels make the most noise, and I've read enough at both these meetings for tonight. I only pray we haven't killed anyone.
Member: Jeff C.
Location: Sacramento
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:08:19 PM
JimB points out: >"It seems certain visiters here think the rule about one post a week is good for everyone else except them."
Thanks, Jim. I had read the guidelines but somehow missed that.
My sincere apologies to all.
best,
Jeff
Member: For Harry K
Location: from the UK
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:38:34 PM
Oh, Harry from the UK - lighten up. The internet is no way to get sober and stay that way. Shit, what did all those old timers do before computers? They didn't die. Just lighten up you ol' fucker you...
Member: Joy P.
Location: Bartlett,Il
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:51:02 PM
HI Joy-alcoholic,I am so glad you are on tradition 5 because.....As the holidays approach I remember what a tough time I had last year staying sober ...so my home group and I decided to extend some of our local meeting and do fun get together things before our open speaker meetings. On one night we will do A.A. trivia. On one we will wrap gifts for the A.A. x-mas party. One we will have a chilli cook-off.We will serve food and a sober good time in hopes of reaching and keeping new comers around. Five kinda ties in with giving back freely what by the grace of a Higher Power we were all given. To carry the message to the still suffering(suffering) alcoholic {dunk or sober}...don't we need to know the message.The Big Book and The 12/12 both have alot to offer. very thankfully sober...just for today,Joy
Member: John D.
Location: Raleigh
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 3:59:14 PM
Well if its alright with you I will borrow this topic for the meeting I am chairing tonight. Harry I agree, this is just an aid, to the real thing, but many people come here first. I agree I hope nobody got turned off from AA by the BS that comes with the internet.
Member: Bill
Location: Sierra Vista
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 4:54:36 PM
Love ya Lulu... Be interesting to chat with you in depth..
Give me Holler.
az-bill@primenet.com
Member: Mister AA
Location: Complacent usa
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 5:24:27 PM
Carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Just as long as it won't make me have to go out of my way or miss the Simpsons. and as long as the one I carry it to is not a weirdo or anything and they better apprecite it.
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 6:24:58 PM
Having gone to many AA meetings and thus have I noticed the trends that come and slowly go. They quickly come and I can't say for sure if they do go away, or if they are filed away for another day.
But as the topic has turned away to the lack of seriousness on this web page, I can't but first make my comment on the fear of God before I continue, or the lack thereof, and much worse is the practice away from it rather than toward it. "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel." A healthy fear of God and of the wrath to come will bring about that seriousness that is needed, for one followes the other, Perhaps we need to carry the message to those who do not suffer rather than to those who still suffer, for those that suffer have more hope than those that are still turned to pleasure, the bible says that such as these are dead while they yet live. Gravity is the word, that is what is needed. It is a misconseption on our part to think that having gone to AA for a time, suffering gives way to pleasure. Many have yet to suffer that come to AA. They were not suffering then and are not suffering now nor do they see the benifit derived from it; but let us consider what the scriptures say of it; "For he that has suffered in his flesh hath ceased from sin." It followes then that he that has not suffered in his flesh has not ceased from sin; I rest my case....
Member: Tom
Location: Reno
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 7:13:17 PM
I'm a newcomer and so so very much appreciate poelple reaching out to support me. It makes sense to help others only helps yourself. Once again this tradition is important to reach out and carry the message of hope and a new life can be had.
Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 7:21:10 PM
So how 'bout helping the alcoholic who still suffers? Jeff, 11/12 at 6:20, if you can quit any time but have trouble STAYing quit, have you tried discussing the first drink with somebody. As they say, "call me up, and if you can convince me that a drink is the right thing, then I'll have one too..." So, do you decide you were being a little hasty when you decided you were an alcoholic, and took back the first step? Can anyone here help Jeff??
Member: LU-LU pres. of the
Location: I LOVE LU-LU CLUB
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 8:09:26 PM
(((((((mister A.A.))))))) Thats fer sure,lots o' that going around,'specially for the "super sober" click/group somewhere in ILL-inois..lucky for me i "looked" alot "prettier" than the average newcomer, so i was welcomed with open arms, more so by the men i might add.seems the "ladys" were not real excited to see me.. (little did they know i had scabbies)te he he,Y'know, "lower companions"te he he. its o.k. hey thats what it was like i'm all better now...
Member: Joyce S.
Location: Racine, Wi.
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 9:17:20 PM
This is my first time here, and it has been interesting - is it always this loose? All I know is I just celebrated a year of sobriety on Oct. 30 and I am still learning. 5th tradition for sure helped me. Lu-Lu - you certainly have a "style"
Member: Marsha W
Location: Northern Chile
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 9:20:07 PM
Hi, all. Marsha, alcoholic. Am so glad I'm not a newcomer who is making a first visit to this site. If I'd seen all this crap on my first visit, there never would have been a second one. Of course, nothing can take the place of f2f meetings, but some newcomers check this site to find the courage to make it to their first f2f meeting. Others, like myself, have no f2f meetings in their areas and some people physically can't get to a f2f meeting. Please, newcomers, keep coming back and posting. There is so much experience, strength and hope on this site if you can just scroll past the bullshit. God bless and a happy 24 to all.
Member: (((IMPOSTER)))))
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 9:24:03 PM
lu-lu,
those arnt scabies,theyre CRABS,tell us the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
imposter))))))
Member: Rick
Location: Texas
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 10:56:46 PM
Hello everyone,
I'm glad to see we are getting back on track. Thanks especially to Jim B. and Bob S. (who has always been one of my favorite people here).
I don't know if the issue of posting more than once is as big as the issue of what is being posted. I think if someone has something really insightful, it would be nice to hear it. However, if it is just immature babbling or juvenile fantasies, let's take it elsewhere.
One of the first things discussed was regarding an AA group not wanting to allow a relapsed member to come back. I don't know the whole story about that, but I can talk about my own experience here at this site.
A couple of months ago when I first came to this here, I was uncermoniously cursed at and told to shut up by one of the members because I really didn't understand the rules. Apparently, I was talking "to" people too much and not enough about myself. I decided I could find better company in a bottle and returned to drinking.
That, of course, was a big mistake. Now, I am back and hoping things will be different this time.
The point is, refusing to help a fellow alcoholic by either ostracizing him or being extremely rude is detrimental to everyone involved. If we can't be honest with ourselves and each other about our recovery and our relapses, then we are limiting our ability to help one another.
I think we can all do better than that.
Thanks for listening, best of luck to all.
Member: it is i
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 11:04:57 PM
joyce s,
yes she has style....she is the prez........
she is my godess!!!!!!!!!!!
te,he.he.ha,ha,hehe
Member: William
Location: Western US
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 11:27:03 PM
LuLu - Tony-da-Duck - Dee F - Imposter - Gilligan, et al - whoever you are or have been in the past.
Many folks, too scared to go to a real AA meeting for their first time, do a search on the web and get directed to this site. They quite innocently come across this place looking for a solution to their problems with Alcohol, only to find the likes of you and your silliness. Please take it to a chat room, where it won't wind up being readable for a whole week at a time by someone who really needs help to stop killing themselves through active alcoholism! Can you imagine how you would have felt if you were hurting real bad and had to read some of the stuff you write? Get a clue! If you are an AA member, you have a responsibility to carry the message, not the mess. You know that, you must! Give the truly suffering alcoholic looking for a message of hope a break and leave well enough alone. You've made your point for long enough. Don't you get bored with the way you carry on? Get a life!
Member: d.b cooper)))))))
Location:
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 11:50:16 PM
bill seems like a pretty nice guy,what do you think lu-lu my darling prez. should we just open our hearts and let him slide??............. ...........noooooooooooooooooooooooooooootttttt!
d.b.cooper))))
Member: dena
Location: oregon
Date: 11/13/00
Time: 11:55:06 PM
well,well,dena -recovering person and finding this site very interesting today. I hear many different issues being tossed about and I have to say a few things. a group may decide to celebrate christmas however that would certainly turn me away from something that might be very helpful-spiritual is where I come from and that does not include religious holidays. now,5th tradition and I'd like to share some about how recovery happened for me. I thought I was crazy and locked up for the rest of my life-i was hearing voices and speaking with g-d and the devil.A wise recovering person said to me that i was only crazy when i used and somehow that made sense to me.i decided to try not using,being behind locked doors with addicts and alcoholics who had been mandated into treatment by the dea and such.and spending a very difficult 3 months getting sober and learning how to live on life's terms. lo and behold new habits had formed and i was so scared to go back out that i faithfully did what was suggsted. my life has traveled thru a few days since and i am happy to say that by the grace of my higher power who i call g-d i am sober today. yes ,i have not had a drink and that is the point of this entire thing. thank you all for being out there and giving hope and inspiration--i am not a newcomer to aa just to this site and i must say i will keep on coming back dena
Member: eddyuz
Location: Staten Island NY
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 1:10:23 AM
What a turn off this page is, I'll probably never come back to this meeting again. Im lucky I come from a small town (only 10 square miles) and we have over 70 meetings a week so I get to pick and chose the meetings I like best.
Jeff R. From WI. I can relate. It took me 5 yrs, 5 detox's,4 rehabs, but in the end I think it was the three meetings a day that finaly did it for me. The thing is I didn't give up. There were people out there who had what I wanted and I kept coming back till I got mine. They told me if I wanted to keep it I had to give it back. So 10yrs after my last drink I'm still giving. I still make a meeting a day, on my day off sometimes 2 meetings. I think the most important thing you can realize right now is that the booze doesn't work anymore. I drank to cover up the pain, but no matter how much I drink the pain just wouldn't go away. It only got worse. Good luck and God be with you.
Member: Jack B.
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 2:31:30 AM
Hi,I am Jack a real alcoholic.The traditions for me are why it works just as the steps are how it works. Tradition five is essential to our survival.The moment the home group gets away from our singleness of purpose, we take the chance of hurting or killing another alcoholic along with bringing about our own demise. For this alcoholic the hope is seeing another alcoholic begin to recover from this seemingly hopeless disease, but the help comes from the home group.Nothing greater than seeing the newcomer, starting to become a part of the group, by making coffee, sharing their experience strength and hope and helping another alcoholic to stay sober for today. Our welfare depends on AA unity.Tradition One.Unity is singleness of purpose, Tradition Five. Thanks for allowing me to share and God Bless
Member: Bart B
Location: Ion CA
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 3:26:58 AM
This is my first time to this sight and i agree with Jim B. Yes after reading through many of these comments it really pretty bad. Only a few of you kept to the topic and the rest only had crapt to say.And you know I've been in this program for over ten years and I love everthing about it. It and my HIGHER POWER has kept me sober so long God knows thats the only way I could of done it. But with the language used here in some of the comments I would be afraid to let my kids read this with me. And that is not right by any means, just as my AA family is always there to support me so is my immediate family here at home. So please lets remeber what this is set up for (to share our experience and help other NOT TO USE TRASH MOUTHS) AND KEEP IT SIMPLE AND TO THE POINT SO WE MAY HELPEACH OTHER AND THOSE FIRST TIMERS WHO MAY COME ON.So people like Jim B and Jeff please carry on and the rest of you who are serious and those who aren't stop trashing our sight. Thank You all for being here cause I need a discussion for I'm knew to this area I'm in.
Member: Russell H
Location: NSW Australia
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 6:22:11 AM
'If you want what we have...' The suffering alkie has little chance this week. Pathetic, you selfish bastards.
Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West Fl
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 7:52:31 AM
Charlie Darling a very gratful arecovering alcholic I am getting rather upset a digusted with what is happening to this wonderful sight it seems as if the topic is being discarded and not being stuck to, all the stuff that is helpful to my sobriety should be here and the rest of this crap should be either on coffee pot or some place else. But I keepcoming back as I realize there are more sick people out there and at least today I can say I am sober and I am gratful so let's keep with the topic and let go of this bull. Thank you for keeping me sober today and letting me see there are still alot of sickies out there who don't take things to serious so lighten up and get with the program it works only if you work it. and
Member: John D.
Location: Raleigh
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 10:46:14 AM
Yeah, all the childishness and bs is not AA, in fact Lu-Lu or whoever you are YOU ARE A FRAUD. Enough said anybody looking for a good honest and well run forum can come to my discussion board, I promise I will not allow any BS, I owe that to the people who came before me and to the newcomers just click on my link: http://pub30.ezboard.com/fjohndsaadiscussionboardfrm1
Member: tony g
Location: ma
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 12:32:09 PM
when i first got sober i thought people would be lining up to see how i did it ,but thats not the case.today i just don't drink one day at a time and i pray for help in the morning,i try to do the next thing right,but that hasn't always worked.i'm hear waiting for someone to ask for help,no body seems to be asking (i'm talking about close freinds and family members)...so i will just continue my recovery each day ,and if someone ask's for help ,i'll be ready for them.never will i turn away from someone asking me for help with alcohol,getting sober and learning to live sober is very serious business.people who make fun of it just don't know.my life seems to have taken on new meaning and for that i am grateful......i'm tony an alcoholic
Member: Jim K.
Location: West Texas
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 3:27:20 PM
I'm Jim-Drunk/Junkie & in recovery today.
I hear a lot of people quote the Big Book: "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed OUR path." This OUR does not refer to me or you. This refers to the original 100 members of AA and what they disovered worked for THEM. THEY wrote this book for us; men and women who suffer from the disease of alcoholism.
Now applying this to a discussion of Tradition 5. Our basic text is simply a text book, full of principles and traditions. In the preamble it states "Our primary purpose is to stay sober and to help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety." So what is all this bickering back and forth about? We are all alcoholics-we have that in common. Yet we ARE, each of us, individuals. What works for one alcoholic may not work for another.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have certainly spent enough of my life judging, arguing, and fighting. I am not about to waste any more time fighting over what OUR purpose is, or trying to figure out the best way to carry out that purpose. It is widely understood and accepted that you've got to give it away to keep it. So, give it away the best way you know how. Help each other-give something back. We've had enough turmoil!
Member: Martin
Location: NY
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 4:11:21 PM
Hi. It's Martin. I'm an alki, and I haven't had a drink today. I wish I could say that that has been efortless. The truth is, however, that I have been so stressed out today that, if it weren't for AA, I would definetly be hitting the sauce by now. I seriously considered taking vallium. Fortunately my brain was still operating well enough to tell me that if I took a vallium, I would take a drink (if not today, sometime soon) and if I took a drink, I would feel much much, much worse (maybe not on the day I took the first one, but soon). So here I am, sober.
I don't think I have a 'favorite tradition' but I do like it when meetings are about staying sober, and not about whether people should call themselves drunks or addicts or alcoholics, or about what the second coming is going to be like, or about what someone's parents did or didn't do when they were six. On the other hand, if that stuff is keeping someone sober, then all I can say is: go for it.
One of the nice things about a face-to-face meeting is that you can spot the people who are drunk. It's harder to tell which of the people posting here are tight, which are certifiably insane, and which just have a different way of seeing things. I do skip over some people's posts, I'll admit it, but then I think about my grocery shopping during some people's shares at live meetings. In my home group we used to have one guy who, when he got drunk, which wasn't that often, would come to the meetings and throw chairs around. Last time I spoke to him he was sober -- so it was worth the dinted chairs, I guess. I can see a complete newcomer being turned off, but for me, I consider a having a few sentences that I don't like rolling over my screen a very small part of the 'any lengths' I signed up for.
Anyway, thanks for being here and keeping me off the sauce.
Member: LU-LU caution;I hate lu-lu members
Location: this post may be upsetting... ZOOM on if y'can't take it
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 4:39:51 PM
((((( imposter))))))))) no? they were scabies, which is way worse than JUST crabs..sorta like,an "alcoholic/addict" thinking they are way worse,than a plain ol' alcoholic.A BUG IS A BUG.. yeah, bill seemed SORTA nice,till the part about getting a life...i have one, don't you?don't get it,oh well.see you, AT THE COFFEE POT...o.k? THEY WILL PROBABLY STILL BITCH N' MOAN BUT WHATEVER ...(((((((((JOICE S.)))))))) Congratulations on your year, check out pg.311(par.2) if you find the time,thank you for your kind words,)and AS FOR YOU ((((((((((((((((JOHN in raliegh)))))))))running a "good" "honest""well run" "forum" are you running it? OOOHHH YOU won't allow "b.s." bla bla bla, honestly asshole,i DID have scabbies when i was new,why is it o.k for a man to tell us about having a pea size lump on his penis and not o.k. for me to say i had scabies when i got here.Are you the LEADER OF the "good" "honest" "well Run" forum"?do you actually "monitor" what goes there??? if so don't forget : our leaders are butt trusted servents,they do not govern,,, you bleading deacon you, a fraud? gimmie a break,ever hear of "one finger at you, three back at me...
Member: Sharon F
Location: Cool, sunny, Portland, OR
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 5:42:41 PM
Tradition Five, The Grapevine in 1970 printed 6 questions regarding this Tradition. 1. Do I ever cop out by saying, "I'm not a group, so this or that Tradition doesn't apply to me?" 2. Am I willing to explain firmly to a newcomer the limitations of AA help, even if he gets mad at me for not giving him a loan? 3. Have I today imposed on any AA member for a special favor or consideration simply because I am a fellow alcoholic? 4. Am I willing to twelfth-step the next newcomer without regard to who or what is in it for me? 5. Do I help my group in every way I can to fufill our primary purpose? 6. Do I remember that AA old-timers, too, can be alcoholics who still suffer> Do I try to help them and learn from them?
These questions can and do apply not only to our groups but to us individually if we chose to apply them. A bit of food for thought, eh?
Love and prayers, Sharon F dos 4/1/78 Keep coming back, you are needed and wanted!!
Member: (((((((imposter)))))
Location:
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 7:10:45 PM
hey lu-lu, see ya at the coffeepot!!!!!!!hammer is back!!!!
te,he,he)
((((((imposter)))))))))
Member: MARIANNE S.
Location:
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 7:14:01 PM
hi im marianne, alcoholic. i almost wonder sometimes if it is a good thing to have people tell me their stories. there are alot of people that i have met who have had lower bottoms than me and alot of people who i would not normally talk to. i think that so far the aa experience has taught me to be very open minded but i am also afraid that i will just tweek out someday and tell everyone that i am different because i wasnt an addict living on the streets or in jail. i know that i am supposed to relate to the feelings but sometimes it is hard to seperate a person from their story. if anyone has a suggestions on how i can deal with the f***ed up reality of some poeple's lives in aa without resentment i would greatly appreciate it. i am trying hard to build relationships with people outside of meetings because i know it is crucial to early sobriety to change your playground and your playmates but i am afraid that maybe these people are just too different or something. i dont know, im confused just help. thanks, sorry this doesnt have too much to do with the topic but it is something i need to talk about with total anonymity~marianne
Member: connie p
Location: nz
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 9:18:38 PM
tradition 5 each group has one primary purpose-to carry the message to the alcholic who still suffers.
better do one thing well than many badly. the life of our fellowship depends on this principle. the ability of each a.a to identify themself with and bring recovery to the newcomer is a gift from god...passing on this gift to others is our aim. sobriety can't be kept unless it is given away.
i know that for myself when i feel anger or want to belittle others, i need to stop and think is this because what they are expressing are the things i have hated in myself,are they opening a wound that i haven't healed properly. in a.a we are surpose to offer the hand of friendship not to belittle and judge others because they do not fit in with our ideals. today i am handing over many things to the god of my understanding,and asking for forgiveness because some of the things i am reading, are opening those wounds, so i know that, yes i am only human.yes i resent things. but when i let go aand let god these do not have to let this become a distuctive force and ruin my sobiety. just maybe i can do-say something that may help another suffer like me to want sobirety. so for every neewcomer thank you because you remind me how i was. to those who are judgemental and angry thankyou because you have reminded me that i still need to work on myself.
connie
Member: William,A
Location: High-Point
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 9:26:28 PM
Hello: I am William.A glad to be called an Alcohol today,also I am truly greatful for the person that reminded me of myself,I too was a member of the A/A police and while I was doing that job I remember that the oldtimers would keep a loving eye on me and always have a kind word for me when,I entered the meeting place since I always came to meeting early to help set-up and make coffee,they new that I wanted to get sober even though I didnt they had experience with others like me even before I came into these rooms.
I can remember wanting to find something in the BIG-BOOK that would help me to keep out certain people that I didnt think would be right for our group,as time went on I stayed they keep helping me I got sober started sponsoring some one almost like me to the letter and every once in awhile one of those old-timmers would either call me or see me at a meeting early and sty to me keep coming and one day you will truly understand,then they would smile and tell me to stand at the door and shake hands because today some-one may come that really needs my help. So,I would like to say that it is 9/5--- years later and I still go to meetings early, I still put my hand out to any-one who will let me so that I may give away some of the daily soberity that I believe that GOD gives each and everyday,I was told that each day thatI wake-up GOD places a hand full of soberity in my hand so what I do with it is give the entire hand-ful away then the next day he does the same thing so I inturn do the same,this a little inside thing that GOD and I do with each other ,today I can realize that those oldtimes did the same with me when I came they were waiting for me,if they would have asked me to leave would I have been able to bless or to be blessed. I THINK NOT
I would like to make a small plea to anyone who has not yet gotten sober and wishes to close the the doors on another sick/suffering remember these words I have spoken to you and remember how you felt just before your last drink.
Please dont take a chance on the last chance. for some this is it
Member: LU-LU alcoholic/alcoholic
Location: don't shoot the messenger
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 10:17:27 PM
HELLO((((((MARIEANNE)))))))) Welcome to A.A. sorry you had to run into the drunk-a-logging"I drank more n' got into trouble WAY more than you people"bore Bore BORE, OOOHH TH' HORRAH TH' HORRAH anyhow,as it talks about in step 1 in the 12&12; the bottom has been raised, you don't have to suffer that last 10 or 15 years some of us did, it's just not your problem that it took them longer to have a "moment of clarity"dear...you asked for suggestions; have you tried steering the "conversation" more toward sobriety, try it, ask them questions like oohhh i don't know, ask 'um what it means to turn your will and life over, or whats autonomy,or principals before personalities,whats that mean? ask 'bout the traditions and how you can actually work them into your life.. ask them what TO DO, when you feel afraid,angry, when you feel alone or like you are'nt important...IF they persist on carrying on about their ever sooo boring drunkalogue i can think of 2 things to do ;tell them(as lovingly as possible)that you find drunkalogues to be oohhhh so boring,or that they make you want to drink, and you will only listen for 1 more minute(or however much longer you can stand)OR you can do it the "easier softer way", tell them you've GOT to use the restroom... IMMEDIATELY.. (don't tell 'um your going to throw up...)unless you are bulimic of course and need help(sorry could'nt help m'self...marrianne, i hope you find a"friend in A.A. soon, try to find some people with"time" it's a bit safer, GOOD LUCK 'lil newcomer, you keep comin' back NO MATTER WHAT!! you will find the fellowship you crave! so try to be patient, maybe check out some other meetings,and don't forget,Principals Before Personalities
Member: Nancy R.
Location: down south
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 10:22:06 PM
Hi, Nancy here, I'm an alcoholic and a newcomer. This is the first time to this site for me as I have only been sober and out of detox for about 8 days now. (That was the first and I hope the last time). I was having some problems tonight (temptation) and a friend told me about this site. Please, please don't leave us all of you "old timers." Unfortunately the first thing I read was from this lu-lu character and I got scared that this was not quite the site it was supposed to be! But thank God I continued reading the notes of inspiration from people who have been constant in the AA program and have tried to stay sober and continue healing their souls. Don't leave us newcomers to some of this crazy psycho babble! I DID get help here tonight thanks to all of you who believe in the program and have had the courage to continue your fight and help others at the same time. You have helped me tonight. Thank you.
Member: Walt
Location: NorCal
Date: 11/14/00
Time: 11:15:20 PM
Walt...alcoholic. Just think, today is only Tuesday. I always like coming to this site, because it is a spiritual entity with one primary purpose, that is carrying the message. Having been around awhile I now realize that sometimes there are really good messages sent by some of the worst of us and some really bad by the best of us. Only God gets people sober and only he gets them drunk; in the meantime this spiritual entity allows all of us to connect with humanity and experience something besides the dreadful aloneness that is the hallmark of alcoholism. Marianne, I was so glad to see your post and to hear that you are continuing to trudge the Road to Happy Destiny. I remember being really at odds with almost everything and everyone early on, but things got better right along with me as I did the best I could each day and didn't drink. Right at this moment there is alot for me to be grateful about, and not the least of it is this site and EVERYONE OF YOU. Via con dios
Member: AA POLICE
Location: EVERYWHERE
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 1:23:19 AM
Hey (((((Walt))))) It is "...trudge the road OF happy destiny," NOT "...trudge the road To happy destiny." Look it up.
Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 2:05:44 AM
Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the fellowship. Welcome to newcomers! Thanks to those who sincerely shared!
One of the things I really appreciate about Tradition Five, other than the unity and focus it can provide for the group and Fellowship, is the focus it can provide for my own recovery. When I make the mistake of reverting back to my own will or I'm just struggling with my chronic health problems, not knowing what God's will is for me that day, I can always help anchor myself using this Tradition.
PS. Congratulations, Joyce, on your October 30 AA birthday. Keep up the great work!
Member: LU-LU ALCOHOLIC
Location: SOMEWHERE REALLY SCARRY
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 3:04:05 AM
(((((((((NANCY?))))))))) I HAVE A FEELING YOU'RE AN IMPOSTER,BUT JUST IN CASE YOU'RE NOT, DON'T WORRY I THINK YOU ARE TOUGHER THAN YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE US THINK. HECK YOU SURVIVED ALL THAT DRINKING,AND EVEN TREATMENT ,I BET YOU CAN DO REAL WELL IN SOBRIETY.HOPE THE COMPUTER IS'ENT YOUR ONLY MEETING..heres a hint newcomer:THE MORE YOU PRAY FOR ME THE BETTER YOU WILL FEEL.
Member: For Walt
Location:
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 7:15:13 AM
Walt, you said: "Only God gets people sober and only he gets them drunk"
I have never seen God pour alcohol down a drunk's throat-it's free will
Member: LU-LU yep it is i AGAIN...
Location: seems like a chistmas card, lotta snow
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 1:57:01 PM
you've never seen God pour a drink down a mans throut?ME NIETHER,now THAT sounds SCARRY. I'm pretty sure "Gods'Willing" to keep me sober,i mean why not,the question is AM I WILLLING? an oldtimer told me this once,"God makes man.God gives man FREE will. And its up to me to get my will in line with Gods will..then he tells me EVERYTHING is Gods will..hhhmmmmm,everything
Member: LU-LU yep it is i AGAIN...
Location: seems like a chistmas card, lotta snow
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 1:57:48 PM
you've never seen God pour a drink down a mans throut?ME NIETHER,now THAT sounds SCARRY. I'm pretty sure "Gods'Willing" to keep me sober,i mean why not,the question is AM I WILLLING? an oldtimer told me this once,"God makes man.God gives man FREE will. And its up to me to get my will in line with Gods will..then he tells me EVERYTHING is Gods will..hhhmmmmm,everything
Member: Chris S.
Location: Fayetteville, Ar
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 4:11:13 PM
"There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest"
Member: bb
Location:
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 6:25:42 PM
i dont have the capacity,i am a mental mushroom please pray for me.
bugaboo bob
Member: LOL
Location:
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 6:38:21 PM
Lu-LU is giving advice now? As if anybody is listening!! Like anybody would really want what she has to offer!!!
Member: card holder
Location:
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 7:12:48 PM
ooooooooohhhhh,
but we do,we really,really,really do,we do...
..................the club
Member: Corinne B., Alcoholic here, there & knowing this too shall
pass!
Location: Camino, CA - Winter is Upon Us!
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 8:54:04 PM
From "Pass It On" - Page 225:
"A 1939 letter from Bill [W] to Earl T. a Chicago member, indicates just a few of the difficulties that confronted the A.A. pioneers:
'It is ... a big job ... to get a group functioning in a new locality, but once you have eight or ten really on the ball, things go faster and much easier.
'Our experience shows that we cannot in the beginning walk into public hospitals or snatch lushers off the street willy-nilly and have much but a big headache.
'It is very easy in this way to attract a big following of panhandlers and mentally defective people. Surely, they are all as important in God's sight as any of the rest of us. They have just had a tougher break, and we are finding that later on, when a group gets size and power, quite a number of such individuals can be assimilated, and those who can't, or won't, fall away quickly; but if you get too many of them at the beginning, you are likely to find that your home becomes a drinking club, a hospital, a bank, or a nursery.
'We all want results, and surely that requires we first get hold of the people who can and want to stop right now, giving such persons maximum attention, and the minimum to those contra-minded. So we try very hard to learn what we can of a case before tackling him. Does the candidate want to stop baadly and is he mentally sound aside from his alcoholism? Of course, there is no rule about these matters; people who look strong sometimes turn out badly; and weak sisters occasionally make the grade with a bang...."
The above passage brought to mind a post I read recently about a troublesome relapser, as well as the Tradition Five Discussion going on in here this week. There is another phrase somewhere in our literature that tells us not to waste too much time on someone who does not want what we have, else we might miss an opportunity with those who do. When I selected a group as my homegroup, I became part of the unifying structure therein. That means there are responsibilities to be met, such as helping to hold meetings, cleaning the meeting room, greeting and offering to sponsor newcomers, showing up at business meetings, bringing food to Alkathons/Potlucks, etc... All the actions help carry the message to the Alcoholic who still suffers that walk in the doors of our meetings site, but what about taking a meeting to someone in their home when they can't make a meeting, or taking meetings to folks in jails or hospitals? I can't possibly do it all, and I'm not expected to, either. So long as I am doing those parts I am able to do, and in sponsorship, helping others to carry on this tradition, I'm repaying the debt I owe to AA for my sobriety. Service work at this level has made all the difference for me. Thanks.
Member: deb
Location: winter-water-wonderland
Date: 11/15/00
Time: 11:57:12 PM
DEB, ALCOHOLIC. I have been sober--BY THE GRACE OF GOD--for only 7 months. I have been in and out of AA for 10 years, so i know how AA works---IF I WORK IT!! After beginning my journey into recovery ONCE AGAIN, I was in a situation where i was unable to attend f2f meetings up until about 1 month ago, so I solely relied on these cyber meetings, along with my daily readings to stay sober. It does get better each day that i stay sober, but i still remember, and hope to never forget the depths of despair, and lonliness i felt when once again i made the attempt to fight and struggle with the demon that i was allowing to kill me. This group, YOU PEOPLE, were all i had to help me gain the acceptance i so needed to stay sober. I counted on each one of your shares of your experience, strength and hope to help me get through another 24 hours. It's really been the first time in my life that i was committed to doing something good for ME,,,,,,,SO, instead of sharing I LISTENED. Anybody who was truly committed to thier program was there for me, and it was YOU who has kept me sober for these 7 months. THANK-YOU! I am not sure, if i were to come to this page tonight 7 months ago, if i would have been strong enough to be able to read through some(OR MOST) of the lines that have consumed this page. So, instead of just listening tonight, i have decided to comment to all of you who are new to this page, and this wonderful program of AA. YOU CAN DO THIS. I truly beleive that if you are asking for help in the first place, then you know in your heart this is where you should be. With people just like you, who care enough to take the time to help you through your struggle. As long as you are willing to be helped, and have truly had enough of the same old miserable life you've been leading, and just ACCEPT that nothing is going to change unless YOU change it, then you can stay sober for just ONE DAY. It will be hard at first, (if you try to fight it) but if you really want your life to get better just try it TODAY> I feel i have to apologize for some of those who are Not suffering quite like we are (were), but i'm sure they are suffering in some other way. There are people here, REAL GOOD PEOPLE, who will carry you until you can walk on your own. Trust me, all i had was the Net to keep me sober up until a short time ago, when i could return to f2f meetings. I read something interesting i'd like to share......... Our spirituality doesn't reveal itself only when we pray, meditate, or go to church. The implications of spirituality are much wider and deeper than that. Nearly everything we do is a reflection of the PRESENCE or ABSENCE of a spiritual dimention in our lives. A sence of worthiness is a sign of the spirit. Our spirituality defines us, it is reflected in everything we say and do. I do hope this helps some of you, as you have helped me! Thanks for listening-hugs, deb
Member: bugaboo
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 1:42:18 PM
lite up my life please lu-lu.
bugaboo bob
Member: dena
Location: or
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 3:01:25 PM
dena, recovering alcoholic here and glad to say i am sober today and believe that with my HP's help i will stay so today.In order to stay sober it is important for me to share some of me with you out there. today i am foolowing the program-i prayed this morning and meditated, i read from my big book ,i called someone in recovery and now i am writing and sharing--not a bad start. for me the key is to continue doing this and more on a regular basis.the premise is easy-each day i do not drink is a successful day.i am grateful for this site and all of the entries here for each one is sharing part of themselves in true anonymity---i may not like what i read and that is only my opinion and when i can't say something positive i don't say anything. welcome newcomers-you are very important in my recovery for you help me stay away from complacency and help me remember where i come from--you help me to be humble.i thank g-d of my understanding that i was given this program and the ability to use my free choice to align myself with spirit rather than ego. keep coming back-miracles do happen every day and all of you are a miracle- gratefully-dena
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 4:47:04 PM
Lack of power, that was our delemma; God hath spoken once; Twice have I heard this, that power belongeth unto God." The sons of men scurry to and fro; It is a vain hope to trust in them the bible says. God works in secret, in the unseen, and sends forth his angels on missions we know not what. But it's there, this power, whether it be directly from God or by his agents. God watches over the righteous, those that are his, the ungodly are left to chance, as it's written unto them: "Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof; I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;" for by strength shall no man prevail. The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them; Blessed is the man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. Why not then entrust onself to Him whose word can effect all things, who can bend hearts to his will, and out of whos hand no one can escape....
Member: Anon
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 6:03:46 PM
"Belongeth" is an intransitive verb which takes the particle "to" not "unto", which is the particle for intransitive verbs of endowment. Furthermore, when writing in the language of the King James period, the possessive pronoun indicating deity should be capitalized ("His"). Let's get our silly archaic speech right out there, people!
God forbid that we just share our strength, hope and experience.
Member: See!!
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 6:09:24 PM
His experience runs as follows:
"One Tuesday evening I sat in a saloon in Harlem, a homeless, friendless, dying drunkard. I had pawned or sold everything that would bring a drink. I could not sleep unless I was dead drunk. I had not eaten for days, and for four nights preceding I had suffered with delirium tremens, or the horrors, from midnight till morning. I had often said, 'I will never be a tramp. I will never be cornered, for when that time comes, if ever it comes, I will find a home in the bottom of the river.' But the Lord so ordered it that when that time did come I was not able to walk one quarter of the way to the river. As I sat there thinking, I seemed to feel some great and mighty presence. I did not know then what it was. I did learn afterwards that it was Jesus, the sinner's friend. I walked up to the bar and pounded it with my fist till I made the glasses rattle. Those who stood by drinking looked on with scornful curiosity. I said I would never take another drink, if I died on the street, and really I felt as though that would happen before morning. Something said, 'If you want to keep this promise, go and have yourself locked up.' I went to the nearest station-house and had myself locked up.
"I was placed in a narrow cell, and it seemed as though all the demons that could find room came in that place with me. This was not all the company I had, either. No, praise the Lord; that dear Spirit that came to me in the saloon was present, and said, Pray. I did pray, and though I did not feel any great help, I kept on praying. As soon as I was able to leave my cell I was taken to the police court and remanded back to the cell. I was finally released, and found my way to my brother's house, where every care was given me. While lying in bed the admonishing Spirit never left me, and when I arose the following Sabbath morning I felt that day would decide my fate, and toward evening it came into my head to go to Jerry M'Auley's Mission. I went. The house was packed, and with great difficulty I made my way to the space near the platform. There I saw the apostle to the drunkard and the outcast- that man of God, Jerry M'Auley. He rose, and amid deep silence told his experience. There was a sincerity about this man that carried conviction with it, and I found myself saying, 'I wonder if God can save me?' I listened to the testimony of twenty-five or thirty persons, every one of whom had been saved from rum, and I made up my mind that I would be saved or die right there. When the invitation was given, I knelt down with a crowd of drunkards. Jerry made the first prayer. Then Mrs. M'Auley prayed fervently for us. Oh, what a conflict was going on for my poor soul! A blessed whisper said, 'Come'; the devil said, 'Be careful.' I halted but a moment, and then, with a breaking heart, I said, 'Dear Jesus, can you help me?' Never with mortal tongue can I describe that moment. Although up to that moment my soul had been filled with indescribable gloom, I felt the glorious brightness of the noonday sun shine into my heart. I felt I was a free man. Oh, the precious feeling of safety, of freedom, of resting on Jesus! I felt that Christ with all his brightness and power had come into my life; that, indeed, old things had passed away and all things had become new.
"From that moment till now I have never wanted a drink of whiskey, and I have never seen money enough to make me take one. I promised God that night that if he would take away the appetite for strong drink, I would work for him all my life. He has done his part, and I have been trying to do mine." *
Member: Anon
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 6:36:17 PM
That is not your experience, it is the experience of Stephen H. Bradley. And it took place in 1829.
Member: Mark B
Location: Eielson AFB, Alaska
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 6:56:38 PM
It seems to me that meeting have degenerated in self-help therapy, and that isn't what meetings were about when I got clean and sober. this ain't about giving advice, rather, it's about sharing experiance, strength and hope. I see a ton of newcomers talking out their ass trying to give advice and that, will hurt somebody. I've been doing this a long time, been to meetings on three continents, and the one thing I keep seeing is too much advice and not enough sharing from the position of experiance. I keep coming back to meetings all over because I don't know. I guess that's one thing time has given me, is the ability to say that. I knew everything and had all the answers when I arrived at the doors of AA. Now, 15 years and change later, I don't know too much other that If I don't drink, or use, show up, and try and do whats suggested, I have a chance at life. Thats a lot more than I had out on the streets running and gunning. I keep coming in here because life tends to overload me at times for no other reason than, I woke up. That 20 pound monkey I carry on my shoulder has turned into the 800 pound gorrilla and is playing catch with my head before my feet hit the floor in the morning. Today is one of those days. I hit my knees, trust that God didn't bring me this far to drop me, and I just trudge. When I arrived here, I was a snot-nosed kid who thought he was hip slick and cool. I was told that my best thinking, ideas and actions are what got me to AA. What makes me think after so many years, anything original I come up with will be an improvement? And yet, I was sitting here at work, trying to come up with the reason I feel this way. Ya know what? It just doesn't matter why, I just do. Any feeling from where I came from in a benefit. I drank and took drugs to numb out, to not feel. The mere fact that I feel anything is a blessing. I feel a bit of discomfort, restless, irritable and discontent. "Oh poor Mark, you big baby". Damn, I was on the dime for the first year I was sober. I had minutes of relief, compared to today, where for the most part, I've never had it so good. I do things routinely I used to fantasize about from inside the NCO club, or over some hash in somebody's basement. I forget what it's like to piss all over myslef, to puke all over myself, to stink from booze oozing out of my pores. How quickly I forget what it's like to try and get some toothpaste on my toothbrush before I've had about three fingers of scotch. Then puking it all back up because Colgate and Cutty Sark just don't mix too well. Yeah, those were the days. Peeling myself off of the ceiling whenever the phone rang because the creditors were contantly calling, or sitting undernieth the windows cleaning my guns because THEY were out there, THEY were coming for me. I still haven't figured out who THEY were, but, THEY aren't after me anymore. Yeah, I can be a little restless, irritable and discontent, but, as long as I don't drink or use, I gotta chance for God to do his thing in my life. My experiance tells me that he will, he didn't bring me this far to drop me. I remember the first convention I went to, back in 85 at Lahr Germany. I had about 4 months and was sitting in the coffee room on Saturday morning feeling a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing. I must of looked like I was death warmed over because this old-timer came over to me and asked if I was OK. We started talking and the crap coming out of me caused him to lean back in his chair, look me straight in the eye and say, " Boy, I think your brain just needs to be washed. Trust in God, clean house, and just keep coming back and it'll get different for you". I gotta remind myself of that because this is a slow deal, I trudge the road of happy destiny. Trudge means slow, steady, methodical progress. Thank God I'm not what I used to be. I just need to vent for a few. I'll keep coming back, I might get different.
Mark
Member: AA POLICE
Location: EVERYWHERE
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 7:59:24 PM
((((Anon)))) - didn't know you had joined the force. Glad to have you....
Member: bb
Location: high lu-lu
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 9:31:35 PM
howdy dudy time,
im bugaboo bob and i have a nice warm fire going uder this bridge,would you like to join me for a can of baked beans?i also have some sardines, and four day old hair pie....yum,yum....well gots to go eat now. bugaboo bob
Member: dean and lu-lu
Location:
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 11:04:04 PM
Shhhhh!! We're drinking. Shhhhhh! Don't tell anybody. Shhhhhh!! We're drinking cuz we never did the steps. Shhhh!!
Member: Dwayne
Location: Arkansas
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 11:23:56 PM
Hello everyone,
Well, I see we still have a lot of immature people who have nothing to contribute here at this site. I wish there was a word in the English language for the shame we feel for someone who doesn't seem to be able to feel it for himself. As for me, I try to fast-forward through these inconsiderate postings. There are plenty of chat-rooms, people. Please go where you will be appreciated - or at least tolerated!
Member: Becky
Location: California
Date: 11/16/00
Time: 11:37:19 PM
Thanks to all who are here with a sincere purpose. It doesn't bother me if you speak in the language of the King James Bible (though poorly), the story of someone else, or your own words. They are all ways of expressing something that has helped you stay sober for another 24 hours. And they are all things that I want to hear.
I've been taking an honest look in the mirror this week. Literally, the mirror. It appears that since my divorce four years ago, that my drinking and eating whatever I feel like have caused me to gain about fourty pounds. Has anyone else out there had this experience?
I noticed that I had been avoiding looking at what I have become. I am very ashamed of my appearance, and I know that it is directly related to alcohol abuse.
I have only been sober (again) for a short period of time. However, I feel strongly that I will not relapse this time. My life depends upon it. One of my main prayers is that God will not allow me to deceive myself into thinking I can later start to drink again.
I appreciate all of you and want to encourage you to continue on with the work here.
Love, Becky
Member: RON R>
Location: NEW JERSEY
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 12:51:14 AM
the beauty of this whole thing is that I am free to be myself today. free from the bondage of alcohol. and free from the opinions and demands of others, including some in AA. I love this program because it never demanded that I conformt to or believe in anything. I hated God and was told that it was o.k.. I hated people and was told that it MIGHT change. I hated myself and was given love and tolerance. I was so confused after my last load. I heard "read the Book" and couldn't even read the comics. I heard "there's more than just not drinking. I equated that with maybe 20 minutes sleep, no hallucinations (freckles that looked and even felt like the crabs, they even itched so bad that I was bleeding from where ever I would scratch.) no more shakes and violent twitches. I was scared. "all feared up" as some say. so I approached Eddie M. from Philly. told him I was confused and that I just wanted to work the program "the Right way". Eddie got sober 2 years before I was born. I am 46 years old. He asked me if I had a drink today. I said "no" to which he replied "then you've worked the program perfectly. WHAT A RELIEF for an alcohol damaged new person. A real load was taken off my shoulders. I was promised a LONG period of reconstruction. told that I could die before I ever got to step two, but if I didn't drink an hour, or a day at a time, I would die sober. It wasn't until JUST BEING SOBER BECAME GOOD ENOUGH for me that my life took off. I've never had it so good. But it's an inside job. I don't want what anyone else in AA has, because God has blessed me with my own. and for that I am grateful. thanks Ed. mad-max1111@hotmail.com
Member: Kat A
Location: Boone
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 1:56:13 AM
I'm Kat and I'm an alcoholic. I am lucky to have a home group that is tolerant and loving to all that seek recovery. I have been rereading and mediating on the fifth tradition and I believe it is simply saying that soberity is the only focus of this program. We don't teach spirituality, responsible behavior, or interpersonal skills, these are just the wonderful by-products of getting sober and working the steps. In my group we regard clean in the same light as sober, the absence of mind altering substance, the fact that my fellow's choice was crank and mine was booze doesn't stop me from being to help him with my E,S, & H. I didn't require an AA who drank gin and brandy to help me, I only needed someone who could describe to me the insanity in their head before finding this program, that I could relate to. Suffering is suffering, be it pill, powder, or liquid, we all know the pain we had while we were out there and the peace we have found here. I am grateful to be sober and to keep my soberity I have to help the suffering who seek recovery, I don't ask from what.
Member: htU
Location:
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 11:36:21 AM
im htU i had some baked beans with dean yesterday,whoo i stink today though.
htU
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 12:58:46 PM
Kim here... alcoholic.
((KAT A.))... Well put! My feelings are the same... that the primary purpose of my home group and the program of AA is to help recovering alcoholics to stay sober and to pass the message of hope to those who still suffer.
How do I do that being part of a group? I show up every Friday night even though I may be tired after working all week or maybe not feeling well. Someone told me that just my being seen on a consistant basis could be incentive to someone just coming around. I go on commitments with my group to share my ES&H as much as I can. I believe that diversity in our stories is of paramount importance. I take jobs when asked... secretary, chip "girl", etc. Service is a way of being "a part of" and helps my sobriety, as well as ensures the continuation of the group. Lastly, I try to be available to another alcoholic. I was just recently asked to be a temporary sponsor of a woman in a women's half way house. I do not profess to have the answers for her, but I can bring her around to meetings, explain my ES&H and what works for me today to stay sober and to introduce her to some of the wonderful people I have met who may have insight into things that I have yet to see for myself.
People helping people learn a better way of life. What a gift and so necessary for me to remember that it is not a social club... but a program of change and recovery on which my life depends. Bottom line.
Peace to all and have a great, sober weekend. Kim
Member: Mrs Linda D
Location: Houston, Texas
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 2:22:33 PM
I have been coming to this site at lunch for about 2 or 3 months. It is my PERSONAL OPINION that the primary purpose is not being served. A lot of EGO SPOUTING AND CHILDISH BICKERING is going on. Maybe it is someone with absolutely nothing better to do. Is this what it has always been like? If so, I don't want what you have.
Member: jill
Location:
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 3:33:32 PM
mrs linda d,
did you know your hubbie is having lunch with me today?
jill
Member: Fools!!
Location: Flee! Flee! Flee!
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 4:12:44 PM
Another case quite common to you:
"One morning, while I was walking in a solitary place as usual, I at once saw that all my contrivances and projects to effect or procure deliverance and salvation for myself were utterly in vain; I was brought quite to a stand, as finding myself totally lost. I saw that it was forever impossible for me to do anything towards helping or delivering myself, that I had made all the pleas I ever could have made to all eternity; and that all my pleas were vain, for I saw that self-interest had led me to pray, and that I had never once prayed from any respect to the glory of God. I saw that there was no necessary connection between my prayers and the bestowment of divine mercy; that they laid not the least obligation upon God to bestow his grace upon me; and that there was no more virtue or goodness in them than there would be in my paddling with my hand in the water. I saw that I had been heaping up my devotions before God, fasting, praying, etc., pretending, and indeed really thinking sometimes that I was aiming at the glory of God; whereas I never once truly intended it, but only my own happiness. I saw that as I had never done anything for God, I had no claim on anything from him but perdition, on account of my hypocrisy and mockery. When I saw evidently that I had regard to nothing but self-interest, then my duties appeared a vile mockery and a continual course of lies, for the whole was nothing but self-worship, and an horrid abuse of God."
"For, behold, Yahweh will return with fire, and his chariots shall be like the whirlwind; to render his anger with fierceness, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire will Yahweh execute judgment, and by his sword, on all flesh; ((and the slain of Yahweh shall be many))!! Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves to go to the gardens, behind one in the midst, eating the flesh of swine, the abomination, and the mouse, they shall be brought to an end together, says Yahweh!!" Isaiah 66:15-17
Member: ChrisH
Location: D.C.
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 4:18:05 PM
Hello everyone,
My name is Chris H, alcoholic/drug addict. New to the room. I think this is an excellent forum. Just being here (like every AA meeting) makes me feel better. Even if there are some of you who don't really respect what's going on.
Speaking of spreading the message, would someone tell me again how good life can be without drugs and alcohol. I've been on a two year binge and I need to be reminded (by someone who's been here and stepped out of it) there is hope.
Anyway, thank you everyone for participating. It helps remind me I'm not alone in this one.
C
Member: graeme B
Location: Jersey Channel Islands
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 5:16:10 PM
Hi all, I'm a grateful alcoholic who has just returned to this site after about I year. Where has all the respect and honest sharing gone. There is so much rubbish posted it's a wonder the site is still used. Please clean it up there are loads of still suffering Alcoholics out there who might just rely on site's like this to dip the toe's into the Fellowship. We want them to STAY.
Member: Richard B
Location: London
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 5:42:41 PM
Hello, My name is Richard and I am an Alcoholic. It is my first time on this site and like most meetings there is a mixture of the sane and insane, which I enjoy. (We are all here because we are not all there!) It helps to remind me where I have come from. Thanks for being here.
Member: m&m
Location:
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 6:42:36 PM
hello lu-lu where are you honey-pot,no not the smoking kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
maniac man
Member: dena
Location: or
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 7:00:21 PM
dena,recovering alcoholic and sober today.i heard a plea and i need to share so here goes
life today is good for me. i have problems like everyone does. aa has helped me learn coping methods to deal with the problems onlife's terms.when i was using (the term i use) i ran from my stuff and had this twisted thought that if i ignored it it would just go away. it never did and the problem always got bigger the more i ran.fear of all kinds of stuff and results of my actions were not even thought of.i hurt a lot of people and did nor even realize what i had done.
today, i think things thru no matter how painful it is to look at the situation because i know that when i do what i'm supposed to do and turn it over to my higher power nothing bad ever happens to me.every situation for me now is seen from at least three different views --i speak things over with someone i trust and i understand that my consequeces are mine--no one else will pay for my actions.life is good for me this way-i have a roof over my head,food in the fridge, a job i enjoy,friends that like me not what i can give them,and sobriety- sobriety is first in my life-the rest just follows.
for me the program only works one day at a time when i work it--there are no days off.i choose to work the program for what i was doing before this certainly was leading to death or jail.
gratefully recovering-dos2/18/85 dena
Member: curious george
Location:
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 7:13:45 PM
dena,
have you ever been in jail???
curious
Member: PhilS
Location: UK
Date: 11/17/00
Time: 7:50:53 PM
Hi All, Phil here, alcoholic and dead pleased to be sober today. I'm a rare visitor to this forum but for me it's like the theatre - I don't go much but I need to know it's there when I want it! Selfish but true.
ChrisH: You - two years binge, me -18 months (close enough for you?). I've been back in sobriety for just over a year now and I know what I prefer! There are so many ways that life is better without booze (and, to be honest, some that are harder) but the one that stands out above all the others is that I feel alive again. For whatever reasons (only some of which I understand), I never hit the same depths during my relapse that I achieved before I first came into AA but I probably wasn't far off. I was lucky. Whatever - while I was drinking again, even when I wasn't overtly suffering badly, I just shut down mentally and spiritually. No life, no growth, I was going nowhere. No honesty either - not so much in relation to other people but no honesty with myself. I was completely incapable of looking at myself and getting to grips with my problems or emotions. That's not easy to do at the best of times but being hungover, planning the day's drinking and the drinking itself removed the time, inclination and ability to face the real me. Sober again, back in AA and with some extra counselling (with someone who I now know is in AA herself), it's like spring has come - I'm growing again! That is a treasure and a jewel to be prized and makes the inevitable difficult times and my intractable personality flaws easy for me to cope with. Chris, if you have any doubts about which way to jump, I can only say that getting back into sobriety and AA was great for me and that in AA you'll find yourself coming home - no rejection (how could there be when everyone has personally experienced what alcohol can do?), no judgement (only a very few people treating you like an errant child - hey, who said that being in AA makes you sane, wise and sensitive overnight?) - just a bunch of people very glad to see someone getting back on the right track.
The weird ones in this forum? I can't imagine why anyone would choose somewhere like this to post some of the strange, combative, things you see here but then I'm not them. I guess they have their reasons and maybe some of them will benefit from something they read here. Since it's so easy to skip over the unhelpful stuff, IMHO it ain't worth getting worked up about.
Oh yes, Tradition 5. If AA weren't primarily about helping the suffering alcoholic (drinking and not drinking) then what the hell would be the reason for its existence? Is this a no-brainer or am I missing something?
Hugs
PhilS
Member: lu-lu
Location: header up
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 12:26:17 AM
welcome philis,
some of us are sicker then others!!!
lu-lu
Member: Sean K.
Location: Alabama
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 3:07:49 AM
Hello family, I am a alcoholic named Sean. I have a question on steps 6-7 any suggestions
Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Detroit
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 3:49:00 AM
Sean, I went to a meeting early on and the guy said these character defects are like chains that we have to lug around thru life. The good news of AA is that (in the 7th step) we discover the key to unlock the chains and let them drop away. I guess we walk a lot lighter after we do steps 6 and 7. Hope this helps.
If not, feel free to email me at richr_srcp@hotmail.com, thanks for bringing this up.
Member: Katie R
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 7:30:32 AM
Hi Katie R - alcoholic here. I wrote some time ago about being scared of going to AA meetings - I still haven't gone but am coming up to the three week mark without alcohol which is my dangerous time. I clocked on here and someone said 'remember the pain' - that was enough for me to keep sober for today anyway - thanks whoever you were for that!!
I think the whole 'Higher Power' thing is putting me off attending meetings. I do pray but that is more ingrained in me from childhood that from any actual belief - I'm a bit of an agnostic at heart. Somebody mentioned your conscience as being your higher power - that appeals more. It all seems very God orientated - is there any place for someone a bit sceptical?
I think everyone has a right to their opinions - LuLu included although I don't understand a lot of what she is saying! She might help someone somewhere or even herself.
Any - just rattling along - thanks again whoever you were.
Katie R
Member: John
Location: Rooms of AA
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 8:42:53 AM
Morning all...My Names John ,,alkie//addict thanks for the topic ,,traditions are what makes the programs run...steps are how we work AA,,traditions are what make AA...for those of you who do read this,,all i want to really say is...it has been awhile since i've been to these rooms,,but i'm glad you are all here,,even the sick ones..cause you just remind me ..what my life could be like if i pick up and use again...and as far as the traditions go ...they have worked this long and helped more people then I can even start to believe so who are you or I to question them...like a wise person once said,,"if it's not broke,don't try fixing it !!!" You all have a safe and sober day....bye for now
Member: David C.
Location: Concord ,Ca
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 9:18:31 AM
Hi I'm David, The rewards we recieve when we help each other stay sober or even when we help a wet drunk who dissapears never to be seen again are so great it gives me feelings that I have trouble even describing and If that isn't enough I get to stay sober another day!
Member: Sam J
Location: Southeast
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 11:16:09 AM
WHY mess up a good forum?
Member: lu-lu
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 1:08:04 PM
why not???????/
lu-lu
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 6:17:12 PM
Lack of power? Twas our delemma that day, I remember it well. They stood in line toward that coffee pot that would soon be gone by those who were ahead of us. As I beheld the size of the cups in their hands and the number of those in front, I knew it was a vain thing to continue in line there. But I remembered the bible stories I had read how that the Lord could sustain it till I reached for mine if I would but pray it be so. And thus I did and this time with more confidence than before for the lord had showed me this marvel more than this once. The pot stayed half full again as before and this time I looked aroud to see if any would acknowledge the miricle but none did. Deap down, I think they knew it was too good to be true; I believe it to be so. For no pot that size could have given to all as it did that morning. Yes the pot held enough for us, that is Jesus and I but then why not from Him who even turned the water into wine?....
Member: a2
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 8:00:55 PM
yes and there was too a lot of coffee,and then one by one the angels came,oh a glorius sight to behold. for they entered the end of the coffee line carrying dunkin donuts and more coffee for all. oh,glory to god.
annonomous2
Member: migel
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 8:11:18 PM
hammered,
where are you and lu-lu hiding????
Member: Denise T.
Location: Great White North
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 9:59:07 PM
To Katie R.
I too was afraid to go to an AA meeting. I too am an agnostic - not so much in the "non-believer” sense, but more in the “free thinker” sense.
The meetings were much more spiritual that I expected, but I found that the concept allowed me to truly surrender and admit I was powerless over alcohol. I have also come to believe in the strength of a collective will. As an individual our struggles are more difficult. The group creates the spirit.
For me it took a friend who was in need of an AA meeting. I agreed to go with her to make her more comfortable. It was the “excuse” I needed to be able to go. Unfortunately my friend is still out, but I have been sober now for 9 months and 15 days. The first month was the killer for me too. I cried every single day at least once. The meetings, and the stories of success and failure were what kept me sober, and service is what keeps me sober – ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Hang in there Katie ! Go to a meeting, it will give you strength, spirit and hope.
Member: Dawn R.
Location: Alberta
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 10:15:58 PM
The primary purpose in A.A,is to help other alcoholics get the message that sobriety is obtainable and staying sober is possible. I am using this web site tonight, just for that reason. I'm about 4 years sobriety and craving drinking that past few days like nothing I have ever experienced in a long time. I am at work right now and Know I won't drink and that I will be okay bt feeling like this freaks me out still, because i can almost taste the beer. I went to a couple meetings on thursday, worked yesterday and today and feel okay emotional, I just feel this strong craving or something. I am glad I found this meeting on-line and will hopefully visit it again. I need to go back to work now. Hope everyone has a good 24 hours. lorirout@hotmail.com
Member: Jeff
Location: West Michigan
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 10:17:25 PM
Hi, My name is Jeff and I am an alcoholic, The 5th tradition is good. One primary purpose
I need you all to stay sober - you showed me the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous which shows me the steps I need to take to not drink and be comfortable with myself, you, and some power greater than myself.
By example you show me that by not taking that first drink I can stay sober too - when I see alcoholics who are happy and free and useful, I see that have a chance at that also.
"to show other other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered" (p.xiii) ...from a seemingly hopeless state of mind, body and spirit....
alcoholics do not need to die drunk they don't need to kill someone with their car they don't need to be locked up
Change is possible for an alcoholic.
I did not think I could change. I am changing -With the help of other alkies and some power greater than myself. (I call him God but he will answer to just about anything)
Thank you all for being here.
Member: MIGEL
Location:
Date: 11/18/00
Time: 10:57:28 PM
DAWN, WHENEVER YOU GET THE CRAVING,JUST CHEW A PIECE OF DOUBLEMINT GUM......YOU KNOW,DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE DOUBLE YOUR FUN,CHEW DOUBLEMINT,DOUBLEMINT,DOUBLEMINT GUM.
MIGEL
Member: ((((((((imposter)))))))
Location:
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 12:09:36 AM
lu-lu,
where are you girl???????????????? its ssooooo lonely out here in cyberspace without you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Member: JD
Location:
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 1:17:24 AM
Member: JD
Location: USA
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 1:17:46 AM
Member: JD
Location: USA
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 1:46:03 AM
I've been drinking heavily since i was 21. I didn't start heavy, but as the years went on it just got worse. Instead of a weekend thing it became an everday thing. I'm 26 now and i've seen many things and i've been through many things my lifetime such as trying to get a good job ( i've had over 60) finding decent living quarters( lived in over 40 places), the closet person to me dying, not being close to my family,not having any ambition, staying aloof from everyone, ect ect. The worse things become the more i drink. It takes the edge off so i don't have to think of things so much and i feel better but i suffer from severe depression and it seems as alcohol is the answer sometimes even though i know it's not. I'ts just hard for me to modify my behavior without it. At this time i stay in a motel room, cuz i lost my license from getting a dui. I haven't had one in about 5 years. So i have to stay here, because i can't find a home near where i work, so i can walk. So obviously i need a ride and my ride passes this motel everyday. This is a very small room and everything around here is far away. So there's nothing for me to do other than sit in this room on my computer or whatever other things i buy to try to stay busy. Things get really boring though after a while. It's kinda dark in here and i'm not happy being alone all the time. Drinking is like the only thing i can do. I was once always on the go, now i'm just plain out stuck. I still don't have my license and that makes it worse, but because i drink so much now, i'm afraid to get it back, cuz i don't want to end up losing it again, ya know? They say drinking is a depressent, and that is true, but i'm depressed whether or not i drink and it just seems to help sometimes. What was a very ambitious type person, became a down on his luck drunk. If anyone has any pointers on my situation, feel free to tell. You can email me at poeticjd@excite.com. I apologize about not sticking with the topic, but i had to say something, cuz i don't know what else to do. Thanx
Member: Jim Mc
Location: Texas
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 11:44:39 AM
let's face facts folks a lot people come to AA that don't want to change. However, none of us are mind readers and we can,t exclude anyone because the one we deem hopeless may be the one our group will need the most in the future. Our job is to carry the message, after that it is up to God and that person.
when I first was introduced to AA I thought it was great for you, but I did'nt feel I needed this yet. I spent the next year proving to myself I did need you people and the program because my life was going down the tubes. Booze was controling my every action or rather reaction. I came back and you people welcomed me with open arms. That was thirty years ago and I have'nt had a drink since. I had to get a Higher Power, I was quite familar with a lower one the Big Book names him as "John Barleycorn".It took me a long time to develope any relationship with a Higher Power, but as I worked through the 12 steps, it happened and I will be forever thankful AA gave me time to learn, experience, and feel the caring one drunk has for another.
Service work is important in my sobriety I make many meetings and have a few people who call me sponsor, I have the opptunity to carry the message to various prisons in our state. Who would of thought I was capiable of doing this. I did'nt think it was possible to break out of the fear and loneness. My Higher Power and AA did'nt give up on me.
Member: Larry C
Location: San Francisco,CA
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 1:06:34 PM
Larry/sober drunk, If every group has but one primary purpose, to carry it's message to the alcoholic who stills suffer,this is a very sick group. This is a prime example why every group ought to remain autonomous.Thankfully, this posting board has NOTHING to do with AA!!! That is the "IT" of the tradition, the autonomy of the group. The message has nothing to do with the group. Sorry to have to burst your bubble. The message is about the plan of recovery as it is laid down in the Big Book.
As for the lame people who have to hide their identity, you are some wierd people. Please continue if this is what keeps you sober today. The only person responsible for me getting drunk is myself. If I'm having trouble with active drinking, and I truely want help, this is the last place I need to be. If you are in need of help pick up the phone and call AA where you can speak with someone who's only purpose is to be of service. The one of you who really irritates me is the one called Anonymous.It's not about you. I'm sure that you really are a beliver in what you believe. Unfortunately, most of your type of believer preach the message of hate and intolerance of anyone different from yourself which there again, has nothing to do with the program of recovery in the Big Book. Do you believe that gay people have a place in AA? How about blacks? Prostitutes? How about people who dont't believe in your god? Are you tolerant of them? There is nothing mystical or special about the spiritual life. I wonder why Dr. Bob told Bill W to keep it simple and don't louse it up. Sounds like pretty good advise to me. I apologize to Anonymous if I have offended you. It upsets me when people drag Jesus into AA. I'm sure that your belief works for you. KISS
Member: been there
Location:
Date: 11/19/00
Time: 1:11:17 PM
john barleycorn is really satan in a liquid form,once he gets inside you,your thinking turns demonic.