Member: steve
Location:
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 11:57:42 AM

Comments

what?

what kind of help line is this?

im pissed...again

dont wanna be

fucked up 2 marriages

isnt there anybody to fcuking talk to here?


Member: Scott W
Location: TX
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 12:05:55 PM

Comments

I would like to hear about your relationship with your sponsor. How it works for you and how you get past any fears of being honest. I hedge at calling my sponsor but find it easy to call others in the program. Yet after each meeting with him I feel so up-lifted and I can't understand the fear of calling. Also would like to hear of any other thoughts on sponsorship, especially if you are a sponsor. Thanks.


Member: Ken D
Location: Sitka Alaska
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 12:44:37 PM

Comments

I find it hardest to call my sponser when I'm having a hard time. I feel like I don't want to bother anybody with my problems. Sometimes I might not want to hear what he has to say.But ultimatly it is good to bounce things off him,I have not been the best disision maker,esp when I was drinking. As for being a sponser, I need to help another (of us) to stay sober! Try not to fear calling your sponser,It will be good for both of you!There is only two times to call your sponser,When you want to and when you don't want to! ....As we trudge the road of happy destiny...


Member: M.F.
Location: spfld mo
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 1:55:43 PM

Comments

After picking a sponsor I was asked by them to call once a day for a month until I got over my inhibitions and had established a working relationship with them;we are here to help each other in our recovery."Work Steps or Die" M.F.


Member: Yvonne
Location: Scotland
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 3:01:42 PM

Comments

I learned to trust my sponsor slowly over a period of a year and a half. We talked and talked over the phone but when we met f2f I was still a bit tongue tied. I hadn't trusted anybody in years and it took quite a few relapses to learn to pick up the phone before I drank...not crying in shame afterwards. However my sponsor used all that to point out my powerlessness over alcohol. I really believed that nobody would want to stick around me for very long...I didn't like myself so I didn't see why anyone else should like me. I even made it very difficult for my sponsor...making accusations of rejection where none existed. I always believed that I was being honest but I've found that your perceptions of honesty change the longer you are around AA. Each time another layer of my defences was peeled away I had to find a whole new level of honesty.

I was so scared of being completely honest in case it led to rejection but my sponsor helped by sharing ...to let me know I was not alone . Self honesty also led to a lot of pain.

But I was so fortunate in having a sponsor who understood my pain and was prepared to wait patiently until I was ready to truly accept help. I was very good at wanting to do it my way...my sponsor allowed me to and continued to wait patiently. After failing time and again I finally surrendered. I admitted that not only was I powerless over alcohol but I could not get sober my way.

I phoned and said please tell me what to do. I'll do whatever I have to.....I was so tired of going round in circles. So now we are finally working the steps as honestly and truly as I know how. Its hard and painful at times but I want what my sponsor has got after 20 years of sobriety...I have a long way to go but I know its possible if I listen and learn....and work at it.

I think my sponsor realised that I had to find out the hard way and close of all the 'escape routes' myself. I just thank God that such a loving, patient and tolerant person has chosen to stand by me and wait until I was finally ready to learn.

Love Yvonne


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 4:02:04 PM

Comments

I'm all in favour of anything that can help any alky (but most especially me) to find the necessary *POWER* to stay away from the next drink and to put some sane manageability back into our daily lives.

Having, or seeking out, a 'Higher Power' is prominent among AA's suggestions in this regard.

The Big Book says (not a lack of kowledge about alcoholism) but a lack of *POWER* over picking up that next drink is our dilemma.

During my (to date) close to 30 years of sobriety, sponsorship (both the receiving of it and the giving of it) has been one of the vital avenues via which some sanity and stability (ie some *POWER* over my moods and over what will be the next move in my life) has been delivered to me - and to many other alkies.

That's the good side.

But, in the AA of today, sponsorship is sometimes 'elevated' to take on a role far greater than was originally intended (which is simply someone in AA you ask to be your first close-mouthed AA friend). In some Groups, an AA Sponsor is now some kind of a New Age AA *GURU* with magical, high-caste, quasi-religions powers of insight and divination - an oracle or a 'High Priest of Sobriety' no less!

I've never been too keen on 'Tin Gods' (in AA or out of AA) but sadly some AA Groups are now 'teaching' their newies to respect their Group-appointed AA 'Sponsor' utterly as precisely that - as a Tin God of Sobriety. Many unsuspecting newies are never told the truth about what an AA 'sponsor' is supposed to be - simply your first AA friend (whom you alone can chose) not some verbose Group-allocated and Group-approved 'Tin God' who will control your every thought and every move cos stupid sickos like you can't be trusted to think for themselves!

Sadly, the AA 'message' that newies are getting in some of the more 'structured' and full-on AA groups is: "This is the One True AA Group in town and you'll need to grab this One True AA Sponsor we're offering (and obey his every dictate) or DRINK AGAIN YOU SURELY WILL!"

IMO the changing of the role, over the decades, of the sponsor in AA from being a 'level-playing-field' brother-to-brother or sister-to-sister *FELLOWSHIP* relationship - into being a one-up-one-down Dominant/Subordiate relationship - is very unhealthy. Maybe such a 'I'm One Up On You' role for sponsorship (in some groups anyway) is altering the whole character of AA - from being a genuine fellowship into being a personality-lead cult!

A little poem recited at an AA meeting 30 years ago got me thinking straight back then and it has kept me thinking straight during all the ups and downs over the years about both 'God' and about other alkies (either older or newer than me in AA). Here it is:

I sought my God, My God I could not see. I sought my soul, My soul eluded me. I sought my brother, And I found all three.

Best wishes,

Graham M.


Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 4:06:45 PM

Comments

Hello all - LeeEllen here and a recovering alcoholic.

To Steve -- What would you like to talk about? Please stay with us.

Scott W - Good topic. I too felt like that and occasionally do today.

I've always had this feeling that my "problems" are insignificant and trite -- that they just aren't important enough to bother anyone with, even my sponsor. That can get me into trouble --- I end up depressed, frustrated and angry with myself. Usually, by the time I pick up that 2,000lb phone, I'm either so miserable I can stand it anymore or else the problem isn't there anymore.

Trusting can be an obstacle in the early days/months and sometimes even years of sobriety. Sometimes we're so ashamed of what we've done in the past that we don't even want to think about it anymore ----but it has to come out sometime. We don't want to "disappoint" our sponsor --- perhaps they are really proud of us and we don't want to tell them anything that will make them feel less about us. But a good sponsor has already heard it all -- nothing will surprise him/her.

If your sponsor has quality sobriety (length of time sober helps, but quality is #1) you need not be afraid to open up. He will be better able to understand what's going on with you as well as how your past affects you now. Just like when we see the doctor, we must give him all our symptoms and worries.

And most of all, we must deflate our ego --- obviously we can't do things "our" way cause it didn't work. We MUST ask for help.

Thanks all for being here for this drunk and for letting me share. Peace, LeeEllen


Member: Melissa B.
Location: Canada
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 4:23:06 PM

Comments

I'm Melissa, and I'm an alcoholic. I was blessed with my sponsor, but it didn't feel like it at the time. She happened to be at a meeting that I was at, the first day of my sobriety (and my second time at AA). It was my turn to speak (women's discussion meeting) but I was so convinced that I couldn't quit drinking (I didn't come to AA because I wanted to) that all I could do was cry, and cry. I was crying awfully noisily, so I got up and left the room and went into another room, and the woman who became my sponsor followed me, sat quietly for a few minutes, and then said equally quietly 'this may be your last recovery' which shut me up and brought me up short, because I hadn't lost any of the material things yet, had my husband, my children, my house, my car, etc....and there was still a part of me that was saying 'you're not like these other people'. It hadn't dawned on me that this was virtual life or death, you make up your mind, Melissa. I stopped crying and was looking at this woman in dumb bewilderment and she said that she'd be my temporary sponsor, if I would agree to that. So I did. That was twenty-eight months ago. She has at times upset me greatly, at times pissed me off utterly, and at times has withered my ego in a most deflating way, but mostly she has lifted me up, talked to me encouragingly, been honest, taught me about service and AA, worked the steps with me, and shown me how to stay sober. I am grateful beyond words to have her in my life; she shared herself wholly with me, and made me realize I am not alone.

Two months ago, I hesitantly offered to sponsor a woman who is now two and a half months sober. I don't know what she's getting out of it (sobriety, so far) but I know that I am more on the receiving end than she is. I understand now about strengthening one's own sobriety by helping another alcoholic. It's a.....it's absolutely awesome. It's beautiful. One of the many books I read before getting sober (I tried reading myself sober; didn't work) asked the question 'who needs a sponsor?' and answered it 'everyone in recovery'. I don't know about everyone else, only myself, but my sponsor helped tremendously, enourmously and incalcubly. Especially the times when I did not care much for what she was saying. The only thing that really suffered was my ego. There were many things she told me to do that I didn't want to do, but I did them anyway, and found they worked. One of the things I remember was when I was struggling with a problem of vital and crucial and painful importance (can't remember what it was) and she told me to pray the third step prayer THIRTY times during the course of the day. I was convinced that she didn't understand the magnitude of what I was dealing with, but grudgingly did it anyway, keeping track on a piece of paper, so I didn't waste my time praying it thirty-one times. God's grace. I don't remember what was upsetting my inner child so much that day, but I DO remember the peace in which I ended that day, and have not forgotten either the peace, or the lesson.

This program definitely stopped my drinking, but it is also illuminating every corner of my life. And without the one- on-one connection with my sponsor and the trust and love that came with it, I don't know where I'd be. Not where I am, that's for sure. And where I am is just fine with me. Well, not all the time, but my sponsor's still around to help me out with life. And I DO need help...

What a great topic this is, thank you.

I hope this makes sense. I've gotten up three times to break up fights (rainy Sundays can go either way with children.) Mark L. gently advised me to give them away some time ago, when they were raising hell or sick or something, but I am procrastinating....


Member: Lessa E
Location: Chicago
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 4:51:02 PM

Comments

Good topic, Scott. Kind of coincidental, too, as I'm seeking a new sponsor now. I experienced something of what Graham referred to.

I picked a person with long time sobriety (>20 years) for my sponsor. Someone who had 'gotten' the program after her first meeting. She was a smart working woman, who was very helpful early in my sobriety (this second pass through the program.) I called her almost daily, emailed her several times a day, went to one meeting with her weekly, and got together on weekends at least once. This close contact, her gettting to know me, enabled her to know when I started sneaking drinks again. She let it go on for a couple of months without saying anything. Then she called me on it, in private. I honestly think she saved my life - I'd still be drinking if she hadn't called me on it.

My program friends were surprised that I was this close to my sponsor - we were friends as much as sponsor/sponsee. She insisted I spend the next year on steps 1-3. When I was finally understanding and working those steps, and WANTED to move to step 4, she instead told me I wasn't ready. As my head cleared, I began to trust my instincts. And something told me there was an ulterior motive to her not wanting me to move forward. She had stopped even referring to the steps. Instead, she started to tell me who to date, what job to switch to, what to buy while shopping. She's literally screamed at me when I bought something she thought was frivolous or too expensive. She was acting more like a controlling, domineering parent than a sponsor. I started to wonder what was wrong with me. It wasn't until we were shopping one Sunday that I found out why. She told me(and she was serious)that she had no character defects. Her addiction had only been physical, not character issues like the rest of the people in the program. And she told me finally that she'd never worked the steps and didn't have any type of HP.

As I mentioned, I will forever be grateful to her for picking up on my drinking. It took the lowering of my own barriers to let someone that close to me. However, I know now, what I need is someone who has worked the steps. Someone who uses the steps in her daily life. And someone that will share her own experiences, hopes and strength with me. Not another parent. Not even necessarily a friend. But a real sponsor.

Much good has come of this situation, too. I have a strong desire to work the steps now. A sponsor who had pushed me into it sooner mgiht have had different results. I now associate with folks whose program is on fire. Not to put them on a pedestal. More, to find out what they're doing that works. I'm talking to more people and going to more meetings. I'm also doing my fifth step with my outpatient counselor this week. And enjoying sobriety more than ever.


Member: Kerry B    3/21/80
Location: Idaho
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 6:06:00 PM

Comments

A sponsor is someone who you trust has worked all the steps, and who has the willingness to help guide you through the steps by being available whenever you have a question about them. Trust does not come easy to most of us alkies, that is why it is important to be willing to open up to someone and allow them to "know you" - warts and all.

The chapter "Working with Others" is designed to help all of us learn how to pass it on.

Contrary to what we hear sometimes in the meetings, we cannot fire our sponsors, for we aren't employing them. If, however, you find that you would like to work with someone else pertaining to your program, then just ask someone else, and be honest with the first person you asked. They should not be offended or have hurt feelings, it isn't a popularity contest to see how many people we can sponsor at one time.

By all means, do not put your sponsor on a pedestal, for he/she will surely fall by the mere fact that they are human, and have suffered from this disease in the past. A good sponsor will also remind you that they are not to be worshipped, but befriended. The ultimate authority in living life on life's terms is our Higher Power. There lies the strength to keep sober, a day at a time.

Just my experience, for I did worship my first sponsor, and was afraid to call her. I was so down on myself, that I didn't give her the chance to help me. I caused myself more pain than I already had on my plate, and looking back, it wasn't necessary at all.


Member: Rayanne M.
Location: VA
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 7:33:19 PM

Comments

My first sponser was the first woman who extended a welcome to me at my first meeting. I, being one of those people who thought you had to do all the "AA stuff" as quickly as possible in order to "get it", asked her to sponser me after a week of attending meetings. However, the longer I didn't drink and some sense and logic re-entered my life, I realized she was into certain things that had nothing to do with AA yet she was trying to bring these things into sobriety. It was hard for me to do, as i'm a person who hates conflict, but I fired her. I started attending more meetings and searched for a sponser who "had what I wanted". The woman who is my sponser has an aura of serenity like no one else I have ever met. She leads me by example-even with her busy schedule she is always there with a helping hand to aid a struggling alcoholic. She is my angel on earth. I've been battling cancer for all of two years of my sobriety and I count both her and my Higher Power as two good reasons I am still alive. She never lets me beat up on myself when I feel bad that I can't do more service work.There are as many personalities as there are alcoholics in this program- I can only pray that each and every one of you is as blessed as I with the sponser you have!


Member: Terri H.
Location: Florida
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 7:55:30 PM

Comments

Hey Steve, I kind of felt the same way you did when I first came here. Then I went to the coffee pot, groused a bit about no one to talk to, and low and behold, they talked to me! And hey, by when I first came here, I mean yesterday! I go through detox tomorrow, I am a newbie!

I went to AA before. I made a big mistake. My sponsor picked me, I did not pick her. She was an "old timer" with years of sobriety under her belt. I thought she was a heaven send, until she started to borrow money from me. More and more and more. Plus she could not relate to my life. She had never worked outside the home, which is ok, but she couldn't understand that I was a buisness person and I couldn't just tell the people at work to back off.

After detox, when I go back to AA, I shall be more careful in chooing a sponsor. I will not let myself be led along this time.

I think it is important to have someone who can relate to you. And I think I learned a very big lesson, if the sponsor is not working for you, it doesn't mean AA isn't. You can always pick someone else.

All pray for me tomorrow! Two o'clock starts detox!


Member: Rick S
Location: MICHIGAN
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 8:30:46 PM

Comments

I'm Rick and I'm an alcohic:

I'm feeling so helpless. Life just keeps kicking and kicking me. I used to drink years ago, but somehow quit. I went to AA for almost three years. I just wanted to go on with my life, and somehow I didn't drink. All that change in June. I was experiencing anxiety and depression over a two year lawsuit against my e-wife. So I went to a psychiatrist, who promptly put me on 3 mg. of the drug, Ativan. I told him I used to abuse alcohol years ago. He never really told me much about this harmful drug at all. I started having what he thought could be seizures. And I had periods of amnesia. He upped the dosage to 4 Mg. In four months, I drank alcohol on three separate occasions, but don't remember a thing. I've really messed up my life, but don't remember doing it. I was TRYING to get help, that's why I went to the psychiatrist in the first place. I got so fed up, I threw away the Ativan (stupid didn't understand the horrible three week detox.) My incompetence cost me a lot, in just four months. But as soon as I got off the poison Ativan, my brain is starting to come back. But now I have guilt for the things I've done, and anger at being out of control and not realizing it. I also started seeing a psychologist separately, who told me the first day that ATIVAN was no good for me. He got a second opinion from another psychiatrist who said I was a malpractice suit waiting to happen. He told me he couldn't treat me until I was off the Ativan.

I asked the original doctor for something else, and he upped the dosage of the Ativan.

I didn't drink today, thank God! As soon as I stopped taking Ativan, my brain starting coming back. If I was smarter, I would have read more about this horrible drug. I relied on the doctor . . . Any comments?


Member: Rick S
Location: MICHIGAN
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 8:31:50 PM

Comments

I'm Rick and I'm an alcohic:

I'm feeling so helpless. Life just keeps kicking and kicking me. I used to drink years ago, but somehow quit. I went to AA for almost three years. I just wanted to go on with my life, and somehow I didn't drink. All that change in June. I was experiencing anxiety and depression over a two year lawsuit against my e-wife. So I went to a psychiatrist, who promptly put me on 3 mg. of the drug, Ativan. I told him I used to abuse alcohol years ago. He never really told me much about this harmful drug at all. I started having what he thought could be seizures. And I had periods of amnesia. He upped the dosage to 4 Mg. In four months, I drank alcohol on three separate occasions, but don't remember a thing. I've really messed up my life, but don't remember doing it. I was TRYING to get help, that's why I went to the psychiatrist in the first place. I got so fed up, I threw away the Ativan (stupid didn't understand the horrible three week detox.) My incompetence cost me a lot, in just four months. But as soon as I got off the poison Ativan, my brain is starting to come back. But now I have guilt for the things I've done, and anger at being out of control and not realizing it. I also started seeing a psychologist separately, who told me the first day that ATIVAN was no good for me. He got a second opinion from another psychiatrist who said I was a malpractice suit waiting to happen. He told me he couldn't treat me until I was off the Ativan.

I asked the original doctor for something else, and he upped the dosage of the Ativan.

I didn't drink today, thank God! As soon as I stopped taking Ativan, my brain starting coming back. If I was smarter, I would have read more about this horrible drug. I relied on the doctor . . . Any comments?


Member: Steve K.  
Location: Swan Lake N.Y.
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 8:41:18 PM

Comments

Steve K. alcoholic. I have been going to meetings for about six months, and I just can`t find someone I can feel comfortable with as a sponsor. Maybe I am afraid to trust or should try other meetings, it seems like these people have the same story over and over and I wood not get anything out of them as far as helping me in a bad situation or problem. Maybe I am just not open enough to members. I am when I speak at meetings. I have no problem being open and truthfull about my alcoholism. Can someone give me some help on this.


Member: Terri H. not really
Location: Maybe Florida
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 9:34:37 PM

Comments

At the risk at getting smacked for double posting,

A good question has been posed? Please comments, how do you pick a good sponsor?

Please, can I have a double post today? This is a good question for us new folks! I messed up last time!

I am flying below the radar, hoping I won't get caught! But at the same time, being kind of honest!

Good Question! Old timers, let us new folks see some answers! That is why we are here!


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 9:56:12 PM

Comments

Rick from Michigan recounts one of the many 'traps for young players' that I too have encountered in getting sober the AA way.

Sadly, many AA newies (and some oldies) maybe too eagerly get involved with 'professionals' - to 'enhance' or fast-track their recovery.

Some professionals can genuniely help us more than they hinder us - but sadly many supposed 'professionals' don't have a clue about alcoholism or about AA (they're only interested in your *MONEY*) and many actively *DESPISE* AA - cos (by *NOT* charging Whopping Great Fees like they do) we 'undercut' their market - and also cos we have 'God' in our Program!

This is yet another area of recovery where a newie is well-advised to seek out some competent *AA* advice (from some AA old-timer or from an AA Sponsor) before trying out any Flash, New, Whoppy-do 'Program Enhancements' (especially those that come in pill form)!

Some alkies may *genuiely* need medication, but many newish AA alkies (who suffer from Anxiety and Depression) often don't realise that facing up to and conquering these two 'demons' is just part and parcel of getting well in AA.

Luckily, there are several well-documented alternative (ie pill-free) ways of coping or banishing both of these 'demons'.

If anyone is interested, I can post (via this list) the titles and authors of two easily obtained, easily read and easily understood Australian medical paperback books wherein (A) a reliable anxiety cure and (B) a reliable depression cure (each cure quite compatible with the AA Program) can be found.

I rely on AA to keep me sober and I rely on the techniques as outlined in those two books to keep me (A) free from anxiety and (B) free from depression.

Best wishes,

Graham M.


Member: Rick S
Location: MICHIGAN
Date: 11/4/2001
Time: 10:30:16 PM

Comments

Dear Graham:

You're right! Is it possible to list the books you mentioned? At this point, I'll try anything (almost). It's been 3 weeks since being off the Ativan, and I'm a bundle of nerves. But I haven't drank, so far. Has anyone else had experience with Ativan? Thanks for being out there . . .


Member: Jeff
Location: Ne.
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 1:44:25 AM

Comments

How do you pick a good sponsor? Go to 90 meetings in 90 days & your sponsor will pick you. Just listening thanks I'm Jeff& I'm an alcoholic.


Member: Jan BB
Location: Paris, France
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 5:03:00 AM

Comments

This is a great topic ((Scott W.))! I have had a few sponsors and it can be diffcult to get the relationship up and running. I feel that choosing someone who has a program you you yourself would like to have helps. "A sponsor should have sobriety and personality change based on God's will. We qualify for these by living the Twelve Steps, followed by knowledge of the AA program and the purpose of Step Twelve". This is a quote from The Little Red Book. I have sponsored a number of women and I have improved in sponsoring as I continue sobriety. I had a sponsor who always encouraged my calling, in that, she felt the benefit was a two way street, and I agree. I had to get over the feeling that "I was bothering her" with anything I had to say. This took time and I had to let time, take time.

Faith and Hope ((Everyone)) janbbparis@yahoo.com


Member: The crazy world of Avril G
Location: Belgium via Barnsley UK
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 7:45:06 AM

Comments

Read the AA leaflet 'Questions and answers on Sponsorship' choose someone who you know to be working the steps, is involved in service and has found a balance between doing meetings and practising the principles in the outside world.

Does your would-be-sponsor have a sponsor? If not, they are playing God by sponsoring others. If I am scared to call my ponsor, that sponsor is wrong for me. Remember that the sponsor's role is to hold the light while YOU do the digging. A good sponsor will NOT stop you following your own instincts and making your own decisions, he/she will point out the potholes, but will be there to help you up when you fall.

My first ever sponsor had all of these qualities, she was a good friend as well as my sponsor (eventually) and I have stayed sober by following the suggested path which she taught me over 11 years ago, unfortunately, SHE stopped doing what she had taught me to do.

She is drinking again, and almost at deaths door. She stopped going to meetings, stopped working the steps, stopped using her sponsor, and the inevitable happened!!! If anyone wants to know how bad it gets when you pick up again after a long period of sobriety, I can confirm that you will completely forget everything you have ever learnt in AA!!! You will go down quicker than a pricked balloon!! You will feel so guilty, you will stay away from others in recovery, will lose all your self worth, and looking at my old sponsor now, you will begin to feel that death will be a good thing!!

I can do nothing but pray for her, she is very close to becoming so ill, there will be no chance of another recovery. WHY?? She stopped believing in AA, in the programme, in herself. Does this mean she was completely the wrong choice fo a sponsor?? NO - DEFINITELY NOT!!! She loved me when I could not love myself, she took me through the programme, took me to meetings, helped me through the pains of early recovery, and she always said that 'sponsorship is a two-way thing, I get as much from you as you can ever wish to get from me' She was my first sponsor I am now on my fifth, sponsor changes came about due to changes in location, I don't believe long-distance sponsorship would work for me, I prefer to sit face to face with my sponsor.

I really don't know WHY I am so surprised that she is back drinking, she is after all an alcoholic, and alcoholics who stop taking the treatment WILL DRINK AGAIN!! That is something else she taught me. She passed me a 'Message of depth and weight' and is still passing the same message.

Those who don't get to meetings never get to find out what happens to them that don't get to meetings.

DON'T drink and get to meetings - Meeting makers make it. Sponsors are only human beings, many stay in recovery, others fall by the wayside.

SPONSOR = Sober Person whO kNows Something abOut Recovery

~~*SOBRIETY ROCKS*~~

goodallavril2000@yahoo.co.uk


Member: AM
Location: Oregon
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 9:43:38 AM

Comments

I have yet to find a sponsor after trying on a number of occasions. I just feel stupid, forcing myself to endear myself to strangers. It feels like sorority rush. I'm sure that's just my attitude, but it has been hard for me.

What I'm going to try to do is to not try so hard. Just be myself and see what happens.


Member: Kathy G.
Location: CT
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 10:37:17 AM

Comments

Hi Group, My name is Kathy, recovering alcoholic. First time at this cyber meeting. Took me a year to trust someone to sponsor me. With keeping it simple and showing up at meetings I found faith, and the ability to stay away from that first drink. First I was told to find someone that you want what they have. Later found out, even better to to find someone who they want what they have. Did I confuse everyone enough? I keep comming, THANKS


Member: Gage
Location: So. LA
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 10:59:52 AM

Comments

Hello AA, I'm Gage and I'm an alcoholic. I'm assuming the topic is sponsorship. Hi, Steve, you're asking how to select a sponsor? Honestly, I don't ever recall asking my sponsor to be my sponsor. I'm lucky because I had someone that I almost immediately gravitated toward. We became friends and he helps me.

So, I can't really tell you how to select a sponsor, but I can tell you what attracted me to the guy I'm using, and maybe that will help.

My sponsor is a real level type of guy. In his demeanor, he seems kind and compassionate, not just emotional the way I tend to be. I'm sure, like anyone, he gets upset about things, but he doesn't seem to "wear" his emotions. He's calm, even when assertive. And he's polite -- that's something that people rarely mention in these discussions, but it says an awful lot about how a person thinks with regard to others. There's just something about him that tells me he has grown, and he is continuing to grow. He doesn't sponsor twenty people. He isn't the group guru. He's just another alcoholic who's getting on pretty well in his life, and that's what I want to be.

The way I got with him is I just started hanging around with him after the meetings. We had coffee, and we talked. We became friends, that's all. Nothing dramatic, but I try to be like him. If I ask him what he'd do in a situation, he'll tell me, but it always goes back to the steps and the principles. Hope this helps you. Hang in there!


Member: Pam B
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 11:11:23 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Pam, an Alcoholic,

I was taken to my 1st AA meeting by a man who introduced me to a woman who had done all 12 Steps & was in her 2nd yr sobriety. They told me she'd be my sponsor till I could pick someone for myself.

When I inquired what a sponsor is, they told me I am "new on the block" so she is just someone to show me around, help me get to meetings,catch the lingo & learn what's in the BB & answer questions as they come up.

I felt relaxed about that. Then she told me I am to pray & ask God to remove the desire to drink each time I have one - even if its 100 times a day it comes back again - to call her or the others they introduced me to for help or rides to meetings - that I'm to begin reading at front of BB & then call her to discuss what I've read each morning - & to make it to at least one meeting every day.

She told me if I do not pray, ask for help, read my BB, make a meeting & call her at least once each day - then don't waste her time - there are too many who DO want help. So I never had any problem about calling her each day (afraid not to!)& altho I did not relate to this woman at all, she began the basic foundation for me getting started in the program.

The ones I felt I was bothering to call them at 1st were the others she'd introduced me to & had me exchange phone #'s with. But they encouraged me to pay no attention to what I think - my own best thinking is what got me here. My calling them is what keeps them sober one day at a time: its how the program works as a 2 way street - so go ahead & call every day - even middle of the night - they'd be more than glad to offer help, share their ES&H with me, take me to meetings to ensure they're getting to one themselves.

I felt adopted by this entire Home Group taking me under wing & working together to help me get going in the program. They told me to pray & ask God to show me who He has as sponsor for me - in meantime keep eyes open & look for someone I see living the way the meetings are saying we live the 12 Steps - has that inner peace & serenity about them - attends meetings regularly & works the program themselves & has a sponsor themselves. That I'd know who the sponsor for me is this way.

Soon I found her. We did not have similar lifestyles at all - but she had the AA Program & 12 Steps to pass on to me. She got me started in Service Work & Step work from day one. For me - not coming from same kind of lifestyles was what I needed because it was all the easier for her to call me on my bs & direct me in the things I needed to learn & see to achieve sobriety.

I felt it a business type relations in the beginning - not "friends" nor having a single shared interest in common beyond alcoholism & getting to AA. By the time I had completed my 12 Steps, we had become best friends: the 1st REAL best friend in my new way of life & with all kinds of things in common between us.

Pray - God will reveal the sponsor He has for us. And ignore the thinking that calling is bothering sponsor or anyone. Our own thinking is a bad neighborhood & we're not to go there alone. Thanks for letting me share. Pam B


Member: A friend
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 11:57:08 AM

Comments

Steve, got to htpp://stayingcyber.org/rooms/coffeepot/coffeepot.asp


Member: A friend
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 11:58:00 AM

Comments

Steve, got to htpp://stayingcyber.org/rooms/coffeepot/coffeepot.asp


Member: Sarah S.
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 12:25:04 PM

Comments

Hi, I've never been here before, but I was looking on the web for resources on what to do if you have a drinking problem, and I stumbled on this site. My fiance told me that I HAVE to stop drinking or else yesterday. He quit smoking for me and says that I will stop drinking if I love him. And I do, but I have to drink. I don't know what to do. The last time I got drunk was on Saturday and I stopped breathing. It was the last straw for him I guess. But I want one so badly right now that my hands are shaking and I am on the verge of tears. Nobody seems to understand. I am in college and everyone drinks for fun, but I need to. I've even put vodka and orange juice in a water bottle so I can drink in class. Nobody knows except my boyfriend pretty much. I got arrested last spring for underaged drinking and I've been caught by my parents a few times, but I've never really been in too much trouble. Still, I am totally out of control, and I can't stop. Does this mean I am an alcoholic? I just don't know what to do.


Member: Mike L.
Location: NW Iowa, USA
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 1:32:31 PM

Comments

Thanks for the topic, SCOTT W.

Just as an aside, if anyone had said the words; "Work steps or die" to me when I walked into AA, it would have been my LAST meeting.

Like a lot of alkies, my life has pretty much been led into various catastrophies by the guy at the wheel...ME! Until I was beaten down enough to be receptive.

My sponsor pretty much picked up what was left, dusted it off, and started trying to make a reasonable human being out of it.

He did not order, he suggested.

He showed me that sobriety isn't about always being serious and boring...He taught me to laugh again...There is a life after booze, and it can be fun.

He listened, and if I was full of s**t, he said so in no uncertain terms. Same goes for when I was "onto something".

He loves the Big Book, but never tried to beat anyone with it, nor re-write it.

He used to consider any day you didn't drink a good one, even if you had gum in your hair, got a speeding ticket, or were late with your tax returns.

He knows me better than most people, and accepts me anyway.

Peace, Mike L.


Member: Sarah S
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 2:42:28 PM

Comments

Never mind, sorry to bother you.


Member: Scott R.
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 3:12:47 PM

Comments

I haven't been to a meeting in months! My sponsor from my first home group still calls to check up on me but never judges me. He knows what's going on. He's an old timer. I'm honest with him and he is honest with me. Not being at meetings really messes you round.


Member: Geoff W.
Location: Lexington, KY
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 5:37:45 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Geoff & I'm an alcoholic:

Looks like there might be a newcomer posting. When I'd had enough (in all respects) of drinking, I walked into a men's meeting in St. Louis. The guy who would later become my first sponsor walked up to me after the meeting and offered to be my "temporary" sponsor. He gave me a Big Book, the "basic text" of AA, which tells us how to stop drinking one day at a time regardless of our circumstances. And he told me to read page 449.

AA can be found in most local phone books, and they'll be happy to direct you to a meeting in your area where you can pick up a Big Book for yourself.

As a college teacher, I see many students who drink every weekend. Some of them are alcoholics and some aren't. I never make that determination. A few have asked me about why I don't drink and shown great interest when I discussed AA. The only thing I could say was that I knew I was an alcoholic not simply because I could not stop drinking at will on those occassions when I'd already had one drink, but also because I identified with the way the alcoholics at my first meeting felt about life.

Of course, I still sat on the fence for two months. But breakfasts every Saturday with my "temporary" sponsor and discussions of what alcoholism was and wasn't convinced me that I needed to work the program if I was to avoid a grisly alcoholic death and have a chance at a happy life.

I grateful to say that, though I still feel like I'm walking through mud some days, I've never been as completely demoralized as I was on the day before I walked into my first meetings.

Thanks for allowing me to share.


Member: G.
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 5:39:16 PM

Comments

Sarah: I'd say there is a good chance you are an alcoholic. What really matters is what happens to you on the inside when you drink. You might want to discuss it with some people who have had the same questions about their drinking as you. This is easy enough to do. Look in your local directory under Alcoholics Anonymous and find the number for AA Intergroup Office. Call and see if you can't find a meeting near you and just go to it. You'll meet some nice folks who know a lot about how you feel. They'll tell you about themselves and that might help you decide whether or not you are an alcoholic, and whether you'd like to try to do something about your drinking. Bless you, sweetie.


Member: Carolyn Mc
Location: Yorkshire U.K.
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 6:05:26 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Carolyn and I'm an alcoholic. Please Sarah find out where the nearest AA meeting is and get there as soon as possible. You must want to stop drinking for yourself - others can let us down and then what happens if we've stopped drinking just for them. There is a wonderful life waiting for you if you have the courage to take those first few steps and get to a meeting. Face to face meetings are essential. You'll meet people just like yourself who will give you a lot of help and suggestions and practical tips on getting and staying sober. Please give yourself a chance - you deserve it. Good luck and God Bless.


Member: kevin w
Location: tennessee
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 7:13:57 PM

Comments

thank go for sponsorship.my first time through here i thought i was different.i just took what i thought i needed from the program,didn't get a sponsor,and got drunk.when i came back,i was willing to go to any lengths.today i have a sponsor,someone i talk to almost daily.i used to tell him he had all the answers,and he would just tell me he was telling me what his sponsor or someone else told him.one alcoholic sharing with another.im heard someone around her say to pick the winners,and that is what i've done.for me this is life or death.i heard an old timer at a meeting last week say that there was not anything going on with me that was so bad that a drink would not make it worse.....i have to hear simple stuff,because a have to keep it simple.i hope the young lady finds her a meeting to go to.as my friend bob says,twist the top to the right,and i won't get tight.if i don't drink any whiskey today,i won't get drunk.one day at a time.................


Member: NEIL  J
Location: Cent ILL
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 7:48:48 PM

Comments

Hi Im Neil and Im a recovering alcohlic. I havnt had A drink since May 11 01.Ive been to one meeting and did not like it at all I was made to feel very uncomfertable.So I dont have A sponor or know how to get one. As you can tell I have not been here before and am nervous. I am attending counceling and have great family support ! I cant drink or I die. I really messed up my liver. Im working on geting on A liver transplant list at STL university Hosp. I still have to stop smokeing for two more months before this can happen. Thanks for your time and Im looking foreward to contribute to the group . NEIL


Member: Mark
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 9:02:48 PM

Comments

Neil, buddy, I too have never had sponsor, but if you want one you can just call your local AA. I've been sober 4 years and have irrepairable liver damage, however I am still alive. Not everyone here works the AA program, I choose not to, but it works for many. Whatever works for you man, you'll find your way. Perhaps you should give AA a chance, nothing to loose?


Member: Mark
Location:
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 9:03:17 PM

Comments

Neil, buddy, I too have never had sponsor, but if you want one you can just call your local AA. I've been sober 4 years and have irrepairable liver damage, however I am still alive. Not everyone here works the AA program, I choose not to, but it works for many. Whatever works for you man, you'll find your way. Perhaps you should give AA a chance, nothing to loose?


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 9:11:31 PM

Comments

RICK FROM MICHIGAN writes about my offer to list two books in here that helped me - firstly with my depression and secondly with my anxiety:

<<Is it possible to list the books you mentioned? At this point, I'll try anything (almost). It's been 3 weeks since being off the Ativan, and I'm a bundle of nerves. But I haven't drank, so far. Has anyone else had experience with Ativan?>>

I've had no experiecnce (that I can recall) with Ativan - but during my hazy 'rock botton' period (when I was 'shopping' around for easier, softer ways) the full armory of Psychiatric Intervention was visited up my poor skull.

The treatments I can recall (remember this was during the Fabulous 1960s) involved Mogodon, Melleril, Librium, LSD, Psylocybin and Shock Treatment - all to nil effect - except to increase my bewilderment, anxiety and depression (when I was not zapped out that is)!

Things came to a head (if you'll excuse the pun) one day in a locked psych ward when all the patients who due for shock treatment that morning (including me) were all herded into a kind of holding pen to await their date with the lovely Shocko Machine!

Down at the end of the holding room was a large curtain that covered the whole end wall. Being a curious chap, I drew the curtain back to see what was behind it. There was floor-to-ceiling shelving divided into large 'pigeon-holes' and each one held a suitcase or a cardboard box.

Each old suitcase or box was labelled with hospital sticking plaster and on the sticking plaster were written words like:

Mary Bloggs - died 10 June 1969, or

Fred Bloggs - died 12 June 1969, or

Bill Bloggs - died 15 June 1969, etc...

Folks, here were stored the final belongings of dozens of patients (just like me) who had 'given up the ghost' and simply died - probably of a broken heart or a broken spirit - without anyone to care or mourn for them or to collect their last pitiful belongings.

Then and there I lost interest in probing my sub-conscious for one minute longer! Then and there I lost faith that 'Psychiatry' and pretty pink pills and potions or magic mushrooms held any cure or future for Graham!

Instead I began frantically probing the 'Positions Vacant' columns of the local newspapers and I soon booked myself out of hospital found a menial l job and began (this time in earnest) again to go to lots of AA meetings.

Booze was gone from my life - but depression and anxiety still plagued me. Mistrusting any pill-based cures, I began searching around for better ways - and I finally found them.

What I found may not work for everyone and any alkies reading this post who also suffer from stuff such schizophrenia, epilepsy or manic-depressive psychosis (or bi-polar disorder) they should IGNORE GRAHAM AND STAY ON THEIR PILLS...

... or you could wind up in serious trouble!

But for any alkies like me who are simply depressed or anxious - here are two books (additional to the AA Big Book) that contain the magic *CURES* I had so vainly sought in pills and potions and in the wonders of shock treatment:

For ANXIETY, I found my 'answer' in a Step-11-compatible meditation process as outlined in a book called 'Relief Without Drugs' by Melbourne Psychiatrist, Dr Ainslie Meares, published by Angus & Robertson (an imprint of Harper Collins Publishers) and its ISBN is: 0-207-18898-X. My copy cost $14.95 Australian but it may be cheaper in other currencies.

My DEPRESSION 'advisor' was Dr Claire Weekes, a consultant to the Rachel Forster Hospital in Sydney, and her wise and compassionate pill-free depression 'recovery process' that she outlined in her book 'Self-Help for Your Nerves' which was published in 1962 (before ISBN numbers came into fashion) also by Angus and Robertson.

So there ya go:

For my alcoholism I follow the suggestions outlined in the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous'.

For my depression I follow the suggestions outlined in the book 'Self-Help For Your Nerves' and for my anxiety I follow the suggestions in the book 'Relief Without Drugs'.

And all the suggestions contained in those three books they all 'tie in' with each other - and they all *WORK*!

Best wishes,

Graham M.


Member: Cindy
Location: DeKalb, Illinois
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 9:43:55 PM

Comments

Sarah, Hey! Definitely call your local AA hotline. They can help you find a meeting that's close and convenient for you. I would say that you should definitely do it. If you can't stop, and it keeps getting worse, you probably are an alcoholic.

That's not a hugely bad thing, however. It just takes a lot of honesty, internal excavation and frankly, hard work as you realize that you can't drink like normal people. You have to stop drinking, or it will only get worse and it can be fatal.

With the sponsor thing, find someone who seems cool to you, when you're at that point. They can simply help you make sense of all this stuff. It is totally foreign-sounding at first. The good news is that everyone takes their own path and does and believes what makes them comfortable.

So, good luck. You deserve to get sober -- and your marriage will be much, much richer. Believe me.

Cindy


Member: Doug K
Location: The deer ruttin' woods of W. Mich.
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 10:09:40 PM

Comments

Hi everyone, my name is Doug, and I'm an alcoholic.

Ol' Fred was a good friend of mine before I was ready to ask for help. Though almost 30 years my senior, a gruff but kind man, he seemed to enjoy my friendship also. I knew he was a die-hard aa, and loved the program. So it was him I called when my insanity about swallowed me whole. He said he'd help me in any way he could if I would make him three little promises....get honest with myself...get honest with him...and try this aa thing for 30 days. Although he would not shy away from giving me a good ass-kicking, he was more apt to shrug his shoulders and point out how well I had done things in the past. He insisted that I understand that he was just a drunk and wasn't any guru. He died when I was seven months sober.

I am on my third sponsor...they have all been gruff but kind, never afraid to kick my ass, but more inclined to point out quietly where my thinking might be a little off. They all attended meetings, worked a spiritual program on a daily basis and were terribly human. ( I keep using the past-tense, but the third one is still alive and I see him 4 - 5 times a week).

I have had many sponsees...occasionally too many at once. I am absolutely sure they do more good for me than I could ever do for them. If there seems to be an easy take on which might stay sober, and which might drink (there isn't), I must be honest and admit that the flintstone sponsees are in for a tough time...(ya ba, I'm different...ya ba I wasn't that bad...ya ba ...da ba...booze). Sometimes we can ride out the terminally unigues, but not often. Who am I kidding? I couldn't get or keep me sober, how could I possibly get or keep someone else sober? If they want it for themselves I will probably be of some help to them, if they don't...I can't do a thing. My hp has blessed me to be a witness to the miracle in a few peoples' lives and I need to view that with gratitude, not arrogance.

Thanks


Member: Pete E
Location: Buffalo
Date: 11/5/2001
Time: 11:06:25 PM

Comments

Pete, alcoholic, Thanks for the topic. My first sponsor outlined the nature of his role the first day we met for coffee. He told me his job was to show me how he got sober and how he stays sober on a daily basis. He also told me that if he ever suggested or instructed me to do anything that couldn't be directly supported by the Big Book, that I should look for someone else- cause he would be doing me a disservice. And he has never let me down in that regard. Human? Yes. Sober? You betcha! Keep the faith. Pete


Member: tesy
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 1:07:36 AM

Comments

tech


Member: tech
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 1:20:46 AM

Comments

test


Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:11:09 AM

Comments

Hi, I am Jack, a real alcoholic. My first sponsor passed away 2 years ago with 46 continous years of sobriety. We had an excellent relationship. He was above all a good listener, and he told me exactly what I needed to hear and that was the truth about me. The sponsor I currently have pretty much follows my old sponsor. He tells me what I need to hear about me, and he gives me his experince, strength and hope. I don't have as much personal contact as I had with my former sponsor, probably because I don't care about him like I did my first sponsor. However I know that if I need him, he will be there for me, and thats all I can really expect. Thanks for allowing me to share, and God Bless.


Member: Rick S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:12:39 AM

Comments

Dear Graham:

Thank you for your reply. I've really been trying to get help for my emotional problems but the experience with my first pyschiatrist has been a disaster. I started going to him the first of June of this year and I feel I've been a craving idiot being on the Ativan for so long.

I live way out in the country, and am having a terrible time getting any help for my emotional problems. I called A.A. and they said they would try to find rides for me to go to AA meetings, but then they called me back and said they had no volunteers out my way.

I stopped the Ativan, and haven't had a drink in one month. But I've gotten into lots of trouble and feel completely buried.

I've been on the phone all day talking to crisis hotlines and other crisis groups. Everybody I talked to suggested just going into an emergency room to see if they could help me with my anxiety. But I'm 25 miles from town, without a driver's license, and can't get anywhere.

I don't want any more drugs to try to help me feel better. I realize I am an alcoholic and can't ever drink or I will die. But right now, I need emotional support, and am having trouble finding it.

I want desperately to get help and I sat on the phone all day trying to talk to just about ANYBODY.

I'm trying to accept responsibility for my actions, but I truly believe I was out of control as soon as I started the Ativan. I had three drinking episodes in a little over three months. I stopped taking the Ativan and haven't desired to drink yet.

I hired an attorney, but I don't think even he believes I can't remember even buying the booze. I truly don't remember, but no one believes me.

But I live alone, way out in the middle of no place, and I'm having problems finding ANYONE who can help me deal with the horrible anxiety I'm suffering.

I found this site by accident, but have come back every night. I really can't figure out how to get to meetings. I don't have a sponsor and am eager to listen to anyone who might be able to give me some direction.

Right now I feel like a worthless bum. I've had several physicians tell me the harmful effects of Ativan, but when I was on it, I was like a mindless zombie. My lawyer said I should have stopped taking the Ativan, but I was so scrambled when I took it, that I wasn't in control of my faculties.

I stopped the Ativan, and my brain starting coming back.

I'm STILL feeling side effects, almost a month later.

I don't want to blame anyone, but I'm truly resentful of the psychiatrist. I told him I was an alcoholic, but he kept giving me more and more Ativan. I guess I became addicted to it, and have had memory lapses and amnesia.

I truly don't remember even buying the booze those three occasions. I got three drunk-driving tickets in just over three months, and am now facing terrible legal problems.

Now, I'm out of a job, lost my health insurance, and am sitting here all by myself trying to figure out how to salvage my life.

I've now read quite a bit about Ativan, and realize the psychiatrist was just a legal drug dealer, who NEVER was treating me, just giving me more and more dope. Now I've got emotional problems (stemming from a two year court battle with my ex-wife), as well as dealing with my substance abuse.

Is there anyone out there that could give me some feedback?

Rick S.


Member: Cathy S
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:29:46 AM

Comments

Rick, hi, this is cathy s. I'm really sorry to hear about your position. I can't imagine not being able to get to a meeting. Has this site helped you? I just found it tonight. I went to a meeting this evening. I have been trying to find a sponsor, but so far have had no luck. I know I need a sponsor soon. I haven't been to a meeting for a couple of months til last week. I could tell it was time to get to one & I did. What do people do when they can't find a sponsor at a meeting? We don't have much choice of meeting where I am.


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:50:28 AM

Comments

RICK FROM MICHIGAN is doing it rather tough - withdrawing from some psychiatric preparation that I am totaly unfamiliar with - and probaly feeling very shaky and insecure.

Dear Rick,

It is always a help to get to an AA meeting but, as you say, you are out in what we Aussies call 'The Bush' and rides to meetings are hard to get - but perhaps a phone call to your nearest AA office (not to put the 'hard word' on them for rides or for Instant Answers to any emotional problems) but just to 'chew the fat' about how they stay sober and what you could do to perhaps ease down how you feel - without pills or booze.

Perhaps what you can do (to help yourself) may be something as simple as a bit of quiet prayer - or taking a long walk or watering the garden - or reading as much of your AA Big Book at one sitting as you can stand.

But to addess the key issue of *ANXIETY* - here is the kind of meditation words that I silently pass through my mind whenever I am disturbed - words which I have adapted for myself from Ainslie Meares book 'Relief Without Drugs' that I mentioned earlier.

Ainslie's meditation words do not mention God - but I've added in some 'God' references to make my Step 11 meditation better meet my personal ideas and ideals about AA's Step 11.

Here is a simple meditation routine that I use to 'quieten down' my mind whenever it gets 'beside itself' and 'out of kilter':

(BTW: This should be read very... s-l-o-w-l-y... so as to experience the words - not so as to 'comprehend' them!)

Do not lie down to do this - but sit up comfortably.

The idea is to relax and regress the mind and to slip into a refreshing reverie as your mind 'lets go' of total control - not to fall asleep!

Ready? Here we go:

"There is nothing in my mind now but calm... calm and peace is all that is in there - deeply in my mind now... deeply calm in my mind... peace and quiet is now flowing all through my mind - calm and ease and peace and quiet is now flowing all through my mind, flowing, flowing... washing away all else."

(You were supposed to be reading this... s-l-o-w-l-y... remember? Otherwise it won't 'work' as Step 11 is supposed to! So please try again - but this time read it very... s-l-o-w-l-y.)

"Calm, peace and ease is all that is there - deeply in my mind there is nothing else but calm and ease and peace and quiet - calm and easy - feel it in there now - calm and easy - feel it ever so deeply in my mind - that is all there is - just a feeling of peace and calm and quite and ease and peace and ease and quiet and calm - God's perfect peace is now flowing all through my mind - easy and quiet - peaceful and quiet - feel it there now - feel it there deeply, deeply, deeply in my mind.

"There is nothing in my mind now but calm... calm and peace is all that is in there - deeply in my mind now... deeply calm in my mind... peace and quiet is now flowing all through my mind - calm and ease and peace and quiet is now flowing all through my mind, flowing, flowing... washing away all else.

"Calm, peace and ease is all that is there - nothing else is there but calm and ease and peace and quietude - calm and easy - feel it in there now - feel it ever so deeply in my mind - that is all there is - just a feeling of peace and calm and quite and ease and peace and ease and quiet and calm - God's perfect peace is now flowing all through my mind - easy and quiet - peaceful and quiet - feel it there now - feel it there deeply, deeply, deeply in my mind."

Repeat as necessary Rick - with personal variations as desired.

Graham M.


Member: A friend in AA
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 3:01:01 AM

Comments

Rick S., go to the top of the page and click on the "Coffee Pot"' Post and read there you might find a lot more people doing the same.


Member: A friend in AA
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 3:01:23 AM

Comments

Rick S., go to the top of the page and click on the "Coffee Pot"' Post and read there you might find a lot more people doing the same.


Member: Rick S
Location: Michigan
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 3:37:32 AM

Comments

Thanks, Graham:

You sound like you turned your life around. your kind words have been very helpful.

And Thanks, Cathy:

I am finding this site very helpful. It saves me a buck for the coffee (which I don't need in my emotional state)

My attorney is going to try to present the evidence to the court of the lack of supervision of the medication by the doctor. He never required a medical check or liver check, and Ativan is supposed to be harmful to your liver.

After my second drunk-driving offense, I asked him to prescribe Antibuse. He gave me a prescription fo 500 mg. The psychologist I was also seeing told me that 500 mg. was way too much, and could also hurt my liver.

After my third offense, he called me up and said he would not see me again, and to go to a hospital to "de-tox", something he NEVER mentioned when he prescribed it.

I was so sick I just layed. I now understand I could have died from just stopping like I did, but that's just how out of my head I was for many months.

I KNOW I'm an alcoholic. But I can't help blaming the doctor I went to for health. We never really talked about anything except my on-going legal problems. He never suggested a less-addictive drug, or took me off of it after getting my FIRST ticket. In fact, after the second, he increased the dose from 3 to 4 mg./day. I can't remember much of the next three days.

Has anyone had a bad experience like I have on Ativan?

I read that it causes confusion and amnesia, which what was happening to me. I don't even remember buying the booze. I just remember being at work, then waking up in jail.

I know I have to take responsibility for my actions, but I HONESTLY can't remember those three drinking episodes-what I was drinking, where I got it, and why I was driving and drinking. I've only had two minor speeding tickets in 20 years.

I've been off the Ativan for a month tomorrow, and it's like waking up from being mentally ill.

Now I'm fighting all kinds of demons. But I don't want ANYMORE drugs. Graham is right. Those doctors don't want you to get better. My doctor was getting $180/visit, and I had NO progress, except being all doped up for four months.

I'm fearful of how the courts are going to handle me. My attorney says I can get jail time, and lose my car. Does anyone know enough about the law to tell me what they could do to me? Just sitting and thinking about the possibilities is terrorizing me and causing horrible anxiety. I haven't slept since last Thursday.

Thank you for ANY response . . .

Rick S


Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 5:26:03 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic

I have a tape where he says his sponser always carried a dictionary as well as the Big Book. My reaction was, I've been through school ,I know what words mean. But, in January of 1988 I started looking up the meaning of words used in the big Book. I now know what the program in the Big Book says. I prefer it to any other programs I have heard in meetings.

Sponsor means to take responsibilty for. When I sponsor I take the responsibility to show the newcomer the program of alcoholics anonymous as laid out in the Big Book, not my program or someone else's program.

The program teachs and taught me that ALL of my life problems will be solved by doing the program. I wouldn't have many of the life problems if I had had AA and my higher power.

Tradition 12 teachs that we are to depend on the principles ( 12 steps ) not on personalities. Therefore I will not be a lifetime sponsor.

As mentioned AA has a pamphlet on sponsorship. Please note that it suggests that you introduce the newcomer to other members who have good sobriety. This could be EGO reduction.

I hope that we will continue to have a relationship called friendship after sponsorship. The definition of friendship is a relationship for mutual benefit that is neither sexual nor family. I believe that a good friend knows every thing about you and is someone you can talk to about anything. This should not be confused with the roll of sponsorship.

Peace and Serenity


Member: Jim R.
Location: Northeast U.S.
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 8:11:24 AM

Comments

Hi... Jim here, an alcoholic Back to sponsorship. I'm a newcomer, some 45 or so days sober and working it hard, sometimes to the point where it can get a bit overwhelming. Right now I'm working with a 'temporary' sponsor who's been a friend for a long time, while getting my feet wet at daily meetings and learning about the program and people. When it comes to sponsorship, I understand that sometimes they are assigned, but these groups I attend seem a bit more casual. They tell me when I'm ready, the choice of sponsor will become obvious to me. Still, I feel like I'm not really working it until I do all the things the oldtimers recommend - Go to meetings, read the Big Book, share, listen, get a sponsor and don't drink - As I understand the program, I really should work the steps with somebody who's been there, so I don't screw it all up or misunderstand. I'm sort of divided at this point, between waiting until the perfect one comes along, or just shouting out at one of my meetings, "Anybody here who's interested in taking on a dumb person trying to wise up, please apply foot to appropriate part of my anatomy at the end of the meeting." In a similar vein, I'm learning that I'm not the greatest decision maker in this world. if I wait until I can decide, do I choose somebody who's like me or somebody who's very different? Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Member: rickm
Location: pa
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 9:21:04 AM

Comments

hey i'm r


Member: rickm
Location: pa
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 9:21:08 AM

Comments

hey i'm r


Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 11:45:06 AM

Comments

For Rick S - I'm also from Michigan and would be more than willing to talk to you. I don't know where in Michigan you are, but I'm in south central. I also live in the middle of no-where. If you'd like, e-mail me at knick@mich.com --- perhaps we can exchange phone numbers and I'll call you. I'd like to help. God Bless. Peace, LeeEllen


Member: Kathy G.
Location: CT
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 11:53:55 AM

Comments

Hi Rickm, Welcome!


Member: AZ
Location: Houston, Texas
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 1:20:19 PM

Comments

Hey how do you know if you really are an alcoholic? I got busted with DWI and the court made me do this. I drink 1 day out of the week, most of the time Saturday. Before I got busted I used to drink about 3 days out of the week. My drinking had only affected my life that one time in a bad way. Most of the time it is good times. Maybe I am living a lie, I don't really know.


Member: Bobbye E.
Location: McKinney, TX
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:10:57 PM

Comments

Awesome topic! Hi Bobbye E. real alcoholic here.

Good sponsors have good sponsors.

My third time around I could not remember Anything bout the first two rounds in AA, you folks told me my name was Bobbye and to keep coming back, I was a mess most of the yets had happened in my career doing the deal with drugs and alcohol.

I went to a lot of f2f meetings, when it came time to get a sponsor, I asked how and who, this is what the AAs told me and this is what I did that worked:

Listen in every meeting for someone of the same sex who has what you want. Who has some time in the program, who referrs to working the steps and reading the book when they share. Ask someone to be your sponsor that you would be willing to call at 4AM, and ask them how they work with thier sponsor.

My first sponsor explained the relationship to me like this; this is the first healthy relationship you will have in the program. It is a two way road, cause I too am a recovering alcoholic, I will need you to share what you know today in recovery with me, you may be the only twelve step contact I have on any given day, are you willing to twelve step me? If I share something with you that does not check out with the Big Book remember the source, I am still growing in the program myself. Finally I will not ask you to do anything that I am not willing to do along with you.

That is the kind of sponsor I got in the begining, she saved my life - God working through her. That is the kind of sponsor I try to be too. And the kind of sponsor I have today.

Thank you for letting me share.

Bobbye bobbyee@ivillage.com ICQ58286454


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 2:30:06 PM

Comments

AZ from Houston, Texas asks: "Hey how do you know if you really are an alcoholic?"

If drinking is costing you more than money (and if you can't stay away from it with any degree of comfort for any length of time) and if you keep on reverting back to drinking over and over (when you started out to do other things or were doing nothing at all) then maybe now could be a good time to have a look at AA.

Luckily nobody needs to be an alcoholic to belong to AA - far from it - all you need to belong to AA is to have a 'desire to stop drinking'.

But, unforunately, having that desire (or developing that desire during your 'visitor-to-AA' period) is a *MANDATORY* requirement for your AA membership and it is also a *MANDATORY* requirement for any success in AA.

So - please don't worry about if you are an alcoholic or not - just worry about if you want to stop (or not to stop) drinking.

BTW: That decision could be the most important decision of your life. It was in mine - and I had to make it when my mind was in the worst possible state imaginable to think straight!

But luckily you don't have to be sane (or to be anything in particular) to belong to AA - you just need a desire to stop drinking.

And when you do decide you want to stop drinking (for good and all) then AA members can help you to find all the necessary *POWER* you will ever need to implement your decision - but only one day at a time.

But if all you want to do is to stop hurting - or if you only want to learn how to 'drink nice' - or if you're only looking for some 'Motivational Classes' (to help to 'motivate' you) that is none of AA's business.

We're only here to help you once you decide you want to stop drinking. We're not here to run and rule your life or to make your decisions for you or to 'motivate' you.

Either what alcohol has done to you has already caused you enough *SUFFERING* to movivate you (to want to stop drinking) or it has not. If you have not suffered enough pain and sorrow and misery to motivate you to want to stop drinking today - then please stop by again (when your suffering becomes utterly intolerable) and we'll have this conversation again.

In the meantime, AA has not shut down the pubs, clubs and dives (or the brothels or the gambling palaces) cos we are not a temperance outfit.

You're an adult and the ball is now in your court. Either you want to stop drinking - or you don't. It's your life and it's your call - and nobody can make it for you.

Best wishes,

Graham M.


Member: Jo S
Location: Dallas, TX
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 4:41:20 PM

Comments

I read what Graham in Australia has to say and it is very pertinent to my life at this point. I am having sponsor trouble. I have a new sponsor that tells me things like "circle and count all willing words in this chapter". When I say that I think I understand the roll wilingness plays in taking the steps, she says she is trying to see if I am willing to do whatever she says, when she says it. I told her this is called "manipulation". I feel that if she has an assignment for me that looks at the contents of a step or my feelings about a step, then that is her purpose. However, just giving me things to do to see if I will do them is typical manipulative behavior. Does anyone have any comments or help?


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 4:58:33 PM

Comments

By the time I got to AA I was in very bad shape. In the book Alcoholics Anonymous chapter "To Wives" I,m husband #3.5. Page 21 gives a very good description of me and the sorriest part was that I was and had been an atheist for most of my life. I went to meetings drunk for 6 months or so before actually getting to a few sober. Sober I could here the message; Don't drink, go to meetings, get a sponsor, do the steps. AA members told me to act as if I beleived in a Higher Power, and get a sponsor who seems to have what you want.

I began to notice this guy, Bob, he was always having a good time and always shared about his relationship with God. The thing was that he had metastatic cancer, chewing him up and it didn't seem to bother him a whole lot. So one day I gathered about me what courage I could find and did one of the most diificult things I had yet done in my life which was to ask another man for help. Did I mention that they told me to get a sponsor of the same sex as myself? Well they did.

So, Bob told me to write down what I expected of him and we'd see. Don't remember what I wrote, but he took one look at it and threw it into the garbage can and told me I needed as much help as I could get. Ticked me right off. He said what we were going to do was the Steps of AA, following the directions in the Big Book and we were going to take them in a hurry because he didn't have much time left. He was a Step Nazi. One time I left the keys in my old VW Bug and it got stolen. Bob told me that if I'd been working on my Fourth Step it would not have happened.

Had Step One down, was faking it with numbers 2&3. An atheist on his knees praying, what a hoot. God was helping, however, because I finished Step Four, which seemed an impossible task. Called Bob and told him I had finished my inventory, and he met me in a park near my home, had no car you see. We're in the park with other people around and first we knelt held hands and said the Third Step Prayer. He made me memorize it. At any rate I lost it and started to cry couldn't see the words because of the tears so Bob's reading it and hugging me. Good greif it was embarresing. Don't know what the folks around us thought was going on. Afterwords we went to my place and did the 6th and 7th Steps together. I suspect Bob was afraid to leave me because I was such a mess. We got to be friends and would go places together, dinner and such. I remember one time we were in this really snooty restuarnt, Bob, his wife and son, my wife and I. Bob's wife told this really funny story about when he was drinking and we got laughing so hard we're slapping the table, spitting food out, stuff like that. The maitre'de told us us if we couldn't keep it down we'd have to leave and we would be served no more booze. We saw him go to talk to our waitress and look at us and shrug his shoulders. I guess she told him we wern't drinking. How could people be having so much without alcohol. Anyway thats how it was going.

Managed to make it to Step Nine before Bob went down. The cancer got in his brain and the last month of his life he was not really cognizant. I was in a situation at the time were I could spend the days with him. He wanted to die at home and his wife needed to go to work and his 9 year old son to school, so as good fortune had it I was able to take care of him so he could stay home. What a blessing that was.

After Bob died I had a succesion of three sponsors. The first one "fired" me. The second one just didn't work out and the third one who had thirty five years sober when we met was my sponsor until we moved to SD. I guess we did so well because we quite smoking together. In other words we helped each other and thats what the fellowship of AA is all about. I've lived in SD now for about 7 years and I've not had a sponsor, but I've had special friends and we help each other.

As a sponsor I do what Bob taught me and that was to be a Step Nazi. What I do with the people I sponsor is read the Big Book from the title page to page 164 follwing the directions that appear there. We also read Part One of the Personal Stories, "Pioneers of AA" plus the second to last story, "Freedom from Bondage", and of course the appendices.

Some of the men I,ve sponsored have been successful, others have not, yet. Some I've lost track of. One thing that is very important and that is doing my best to help other alcoholics and people in general I,m still sober,even though I've made many, many mistakes.

Early on someone said a very important thing to me, if you want to stay sober you've got to learn to work with others.


Member: Kathy G.
Location: CT
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 5:26:23 PM

Comments

None of us become sober to be a doormat. If a sponsor is not working for you, get one that does.Keep it simple sweetie. My first sponsor called me the lone ranger. My second sponsor keeps me from being the lone ranger. Thanks everyone for sharing! Kathy G.


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 10:09:07 PM

Comments

Hello! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Thanks for the sincere shares! Welcome newcomers!

I make a point of keeping in touch with my sponsor regularly. This is one of the suggestions I had listened too since first coming into the program.

After all, we have to be willing to go to any reasonable lengths to stay sober.


Member: Sarah
Location:
Date: 11/6/2001
Time: 11:47:11 PM

Comments

I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I didn't think that i would come back, but I don't know what to do. I am trying not to drink right now, but I am becoming crazy and I can't resist right now. I didn't drink yesterday though. I have a six pack in front of me. I drank two, and smoked, and now I am fighting. And I am breaking down. And I am so desperate. I guess this answers my question. I have to be addicted if I want one this bad. Yesterday was horrible. My fiance offered to take me to a meeting, but that can't really be for me. AHHHHH! I told him that I can't quit yet, so he wouldn't be disapointed if I didn't, but I really am trying. I asked him to bring me a bottle of vodka tomorrow. I am so stupid. I need to (want to) drink, but I know I shouldn't. I guess I am just a fucking loser.


Member: Sarah S
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 12:14:51 AM

Comments

Ok, just wanted to let you know that I haven't gone to number 3. And I won't because I am going to go to bed and make myself stay there. Sorry to bother you guys so much with my melodramatics.


Member: Rick S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 5:02:33 AM

Comments

MANY thanks for helping me put things into proper perspective. Graham, you are truly an insightful person, and I relish your wisdon in your postings.

I listened, and got a few hours sleep, but woke up again.

I'm trying to accept responsibility for my actions, but am having trouble doing so. I KNOW I can't drink. I've known it for 20 years. When I started taking Ativan I became less and less competent.

I read that patients are sometimes not cognizant enough to make ratinal decisions, and that you basically become mentally incompetent.

I believe that's where I ended up. I know I'm responsible for my actions, but I was OUT of control from the treatment by the doctor. I was so befuddled, I didn't know WHY I was doing what I was doing. And, the addiction of the Ativan was working on me.

How can a mentally incompetent person make rational decisions for themselves?

I called all kinds of doctors to help me get off the Ativan, but no one would take me unless I went in-patient to a hospital. I was missing so much time from work, I felt I would be terminated if I took more time off.

I just had to make it three more weeks to my ex-wife's trial case. When the date arrived, I was so groggy from the Ativan, that I forgot to go to court, and lost the case just by not being there. In fact I don't remember what happened for about three days. I had a whole months supply of Ativan, and in my confused state, couldn't remember when I was taking it. I'm sure I took way too much, but don't remember it.

Many of you are telling me I have to accept the responsibilty of my actions. But if I was muddled and confused for four months, how COULD I make responsible decisions for my life.

I'm clean and sober now, and working hard to do what I can to help myself.

But if you went to a gas station, and they poured sand in your tank, you would blow your engine. Would that be YOUR fault, or the gas stations, for putting in the wrong product?

THAT'S where I'm having the problem of truly hating this doctor. I believe HE was as much responsible for my actions as I was. I waa the one that got into trouble, but he put the 'sand in my gas tank'. Was it all my fault, when the engine blew up?

That's why I need folks like you to help me put things in proper perspective. And I realize I'm pitying myself.

I also know blaming others gets me off the hook. I TRIED to get off the Ativan, but no doctor would treat me unless I went into the hospital.

The psychologist I was seeing suggested staying on the Ativan until after my court case with my ex-wife.

I kept TRYING to follow what the professionals were telling me. But I really was in a state of incompetence. How can an incompetent make rational decisions? And since I was on a CONSTANT regimen of Ativan, I never had a chance to "sober up" and realize the whole situation.

I feel like someone who lost a loved one at the World Trade Center hating the people responsible for the atrocity.

You are right! I'm VERY compulsive. That's another reason I wanted to see a psychiatrist. I finally wanted to know if I had ADD,OCJ, or any of those other popular mental problems.

My daughter hss been on tons of meds for 5-6 years. I thought perhaps I suffered from the same problems as her, so I wanted to consult with a psychiatrist and perhaps fix something I was not capable of fixing.

I don't know if I'm clinically depressed, or what.

That's why I went for treatment to the psychiatrist.

Coming to this site over the last few days has helped me much more than the four months I was seeing the shrink. You people talk to me. He just kept giving me more dope. We never got into any real issues I was having.

I'm not denying I'm an alcoholic, I've admitted it for years. I'm not denying I drank.

I'm denying having the mental faculties to make intelligent decisons while I was on Ativan.

I only realized it after I stopped taking it.

I HAVE to focus on my problems, because many need immediate attention.

Sarah S. felt she was bothering the group. I feel the same way, but am so desperate I NEED your feedback really bad.

I'm trying to stay available for a job I'm interviewing for. I don't want to have to tell them I'm in a detox program and can't show up for my first day of work.

I did call all around for treatment, but could only find one service that would treat me based on my income. (none) But I can't get to see the substance-abuse counsellor until a week from this Thursday.

In the meantime, it's been just me and my horrible anxiety. Grahams suggestions helped and others made me realize I was whining.

I've tried DESPERATELY to find a way to get to meetings. AA said they had a ride service, but no volunteers in my area. All I could get as a suggestion was to try to get to a meeting and find someone living in my area that could give me a ride. How am I supposed to get to the first meeting? It's 25 miles away, and I don't know a single person in my county.

But my hands still shake, I stutter, and am having trouble walking. I did't have these problems before getting off Ativan.

Why SHOULD'T I be bitter against the doctor who caused these problems for me? I just hope these symptoms eventually go away.

Can I get ANY feedback from you night owls out there?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You are helping me save my life . . .


Member: Rick S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 5:47:44 AM

Comments

I don't have a big book in the house. Someone gave me a website address that has the transcripts, but I can't find it.

Could you please repost it?

Thanks!


Member: Jeff B
Location: Northern CA
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 8:28:03 AM

Comments

Rick S:

I am an alcoholic named Jeff. I have been reading your posts and I know that things are difficult right now for you. Try to relax when you can and keep posting and calling AA in your area. Many times the volenteer (usually an AA trying to help) will really like talking to another alcoholic. I spent some years drunk and sober outside Detroit, and sober in Kalamazoo. I know that AA works in Michigan. When I was anxious and nervous and stuck at home - it helped me to read the book and and then take short walks outside. I drank lots of water.

Keep trying and looking and wanting help.

http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/index.html

The book makes the most sense to me when I start at the very begining. Table of Contents, Forwards, Doctors Opinion etc.

You can make it! We all need some help - we can not do it alone. It does not happen as quickly as we like sometimes but it does work if we do our part.

Thanks to everyone for being here.


Member: Terry L
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 9:38:53 AM

Comments

Hi, I've been in and out of AA for nearly six years and I've been sober for 22 months during that time.

Four months ago I returned (after a 3 year binge) feeling determined to go to any lengths and fully convinced about my alcoholism. I've examined my drinking history (I have listed every bad drunk I can remember over the last 15 years) and feel as though I've accepted step 1 and step 2 like never before. Seeing the need for the program, I am now trying to hand over on a daily basis as suggested in step 3 (with fluctuating degrees of willingness and success).

I know I need to work the steps this time around AA and I know I need to find a sponsor to help me with step 4 and beyond, but I didn't want to rush my choice of sponsor as I have done previously. Some of the members in the meetings I go to work the steps and have a remarkable level of serenity (a quality I would value in my choice of sponsor), but I'd also like to find somone who I can talk to and who I have things in common with other than the alcohol problem. As wonderful as my AA friends are, I don't really look at any of them and say yes, I like the way that person is, I want to be like that (I'm only 29) - so I'm still waiting until the choice feels right.

There may be an element where I find it difficult to trust anyone, but on the whole, these observations are genuine. Am I being too fussy? What do you think?


Member: luckyboy
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 12:30:16 PM

Comments

semen soup


Member: luckyboy
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 12:30:45 PM

Comments

seamen soup


Member: Graham M.
Location: Canberra, Australia
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 2:15:43 PM

Comments

Jo from Dallas is having sponsor problems:

<<I have a new sponsor that tells me things like "circle and count all willing words in this chapter". When I say that I think I understand the role wilingness plays in taking the steps, she says she is trying to see if I am willing to do whatever she says, when she says it. I told her this is called "manipulation".>>

There are so many personal preferences and cultural influences about the issue of who or what a 'sponsor' in AA is supposed to be (or not to be) it's hard to know where to begin.

IMO sponsorship can either be underdone ("It's all up to you, Son, so grow up and be a man!") or it can be overdone ("You mean you bought a new car *WITHOUT* consulting me first!").

But, at it's simplest form in AA, a sponsor is basically someone whose sane and sober mind you respect and use in your early sobriety as if it were your own mind (to make a few decisions) so as to allow your mind to have a much needed rest and get well too.

Then, when your own mind has recovered, you are supposed to use your mind - as all adults do - to solve problems - otherwise how can you grow?

And a good AA sponsor will see to it that you *DON'T* use him or her as a lifetime 'crutch' as he or she gradually morphs into perhaps being your AA friend - not your all-wise, all-knowing AA 'Guru'!

In early sobriety, a mental 'cruth' in human from (not in pill or potion form) is most surely and genuinely needed - particularly when drinking, drugging, depression, anxiety, fatigue, panic, pilling, confusion or plain old-fashioned *INSANITY* has brought your own thinking-straight apparatus to a shuddering, great, shattering, grinding standstill!

In those circumstances (and Rick's dilemma highlights this so very, very poignantly) who or what should you trust?

Should you trust an older AA member - or yet another 'professional'?

Many doctors *ARE* reliable - but not all! Many car mechanics are trustworthy too - but not all!

Many lawyers and financial advisors and stock-brokers and real etate agents are reliable too - but not all! Many clergy-folk are good and holy through and through - but not all!

And (shocked though I was to discover this) even some US Presidents and some Australian Prime Ministers can occasionally tell lies too - or try to bend the truth a bit! (vbg!)

It's a rough old world out there, Folks, and there are 'traps for young players' littering the landscape everywhere - so you sure need to have your wits about you when one day you kiss Mother a fond farewell and sally forth!

Sadly, later in life, when you may have most mislaid your wits (through drinking and pilling) and enter the hallowed sanctuary of AA, some members will occasionaly try to misuse their AA membership to gain a financial, sexual or a *power* advantage over the ignorant and the vulnerable. So none of us are perfect either - and a few of us are downright scoundrels!

So who or what can you trust - when your own mind (upon entering AA) can be so untrustworthy - all twisted, obsessed and clogged up with misery and so utterly, utterly fatigued?

Well - luckily there are three things in AA that you can always, always trust:

(A) The AA literature - meaning any AA book or pamphlet that has 'Conference Approved' stamped on it - because that 'stamp of approval' means that a particular publication (and there is a good pamphlet on 'SPONSORSHIP* too) has been through a vetting process - to make sure it represents a consensus opinion - not just the personal 'slant' of any one alky.

(B) The AA Princples (as contained in the 12 Steps, the 12 Traditions and the 12 Concepts for World Service). These are quite reliable too - because they are the tried and true collective experience of many, many sober AA alkies.

(C) God as you understand Him (Her, It or Them)!

A reliance on a Higher Power (or Spirit) and not on any one human or any collection of humans for your personal guidance is the Rock Solid *FOUNDATION* of the whole AA 'Way of Life'!

So where does an AA Sponsor fit into all of this?

In my opinion a sponsor's role is simply to introduce the new AA member to those three reliable *INFLUENCES* (towards sane and sober thinking) and then back out quicksmart.

A sponsor's job is to light a newie's unlit or snuffed-out 'candle of enthusiasm' (or inner spirit) for life.

IMO a sponsor's job is not to *BE* the newie's candle or to *BE* the 'light' of his or her life - just to *LIGHT* his or her light - and then back away and leave the newie to nurture and care for it themselves - and to encourage the newly spiritually alive AA alky to use his or her light to light other sick and bewildered alkies snuffed-out candles! And thus AA grows.

Enthusiasm is a marvellous, marvellous word - it comes from the Greek word 'En-Theos' - literally meaning 'God Within'!

And while the deadly disease of alcoholism may not be contageous - a desire to recover from it (and a desire to get back your enthusiasm for life) that true guiding spirit (of having 'God within') it can be 'catching'!

Which is why we have AA meetings all over the place - so we can share, not just a drab and dry 'Technology of Recovery' but also to share our wonderfully catching AA 'Spirit' of good fellowship and our AA zest for living.

As Paul Robeson (that mavellous US base singer) would put it (and as I sometimes sing in the shower when I'm 'travelling well'):

"Every time I - feel the spirit - moving in my heart - I sing!"

I don't know why - but I think I'm going to have a very good day today! (vbg!)

Best wishes,

Graham M.


Member: luckyboy
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 6:25:19 PM

Comments

osama must die soon


Member: vickie
Location: ribbeck
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 6:50:16 PM

Comments

hi,my name is vickie i have 9 days clean & sober and got a sponsor and read the books, i just got done with step 1, now i'm meeting with my sponsor tomorrow to review it together. I've been in & out of the program 8 times in the last 13 years. It's tough to be young & addicted I'd like pen pals aa related @ vey_72@yahoo.com, thanks


Member: Ed G,
Location: Bryan
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 7:29:47 PM

Comments

Hi I am Ed an alcoholic, getting a sponser wasn't easy for me cause I didn't really trust to many people, it took me awhile but I finally met someone that I could talk to and that wouldn't take any of my shit. Some days I really don't want to call him cause I get that stinking thinking that I can do it myself, but I know that I can't. After I decide to call him and talk to him about what is bothering me I feel alot better. Just knowning that he is there and willing to help me makes me feel like a better person. So keep up the good work, and if you to call your sponser do so. You will always feel better after you do no matter what the problem is. So keep taking it one day at a time and pray to your higher power.


Member: Lynn B.
Location: Decatur IL.
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 7:35:54 PM

Comments

Hello. The first time I met the person who turned out being my sponsor, was at my first A.A. meeting this time(18 years in between meetings). At my second meeting he pissed me off,with something he said to me. At my third meeting, I asked him if he would consider being my sponsor and he said yes.I figured he had be put in my life for a reason and I had failed the first time around, so if I really wanted to live, I had better follow the program to a T. I used to call him only when I was going goofey, But now I call to see how he is some days. Like so many others, I had a hard time sharing my deepest,darkest secrets, but after I got started, they just rolled out and I felt so much better.I now belive sponsorship is one of the most important points to this simple program.


Member: Scooter M.
Location: Granger, WA.
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 7:48:06 PM

Comments

Hi I'm scooter and I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober now 5 years and 10 months now and I'm currently working as a Counselor for a Chemical Dependency treatment ageny. I remember the days when I use to use drugs and when my life was unmanageble. I really enjoy giving back to the community and contributing instead of taking. Thank you for letting me share and keep coming back.

Scooter


Member: Niki Y
Location: michigan
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 8:10:20 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Niki and I'm cross addicted. I've beeen out of treatment a litle over a week,and i currently relapsed this past Monday. I go to meetings every day, I haven't gotten a sponser yet. I am feeling alot of anxiety, and feeling a little scared to leave the house. I'm in the process of starting an intensive out-patient program,but my insurance is taking awhile to approve it. But thanks for letting me get these things off my chest.


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 8:21:36 PM

Comments

Lets all take a very deep breath, let it out slowly. Then go to the top of the page and review the rules for our Staying Cyber Discussion Meeting. If this were a face to face AA meeting the cross talk would not be allowed. The scretary and/or leader would bang the gavel and tell the cross talkers to take it outside because the meeting was being disturbed. Here we have the Coffee Pot instead of outside, but it serves the same function.

I have stated my opinion as gently as I can and if anyone gets a resentment from it, you can always write it down and read it to your sponsor or someone else in AA.


Member: EA
Location:
Date: 11/7/2001
Time: 10:47:02 PM

Comments

Sponsorship is a great topic. I had the same sponsor for 5 years. We were friends first. She was "polite" as one previous posting mentioned, and she was calm where I tend to be overly emotional. She accepted me where I was and gently pushed me forwards. At times I avoided calling her becauase I felt ashamed of needing someone else, of looking weak, or using up her valuable time. I would listen carefully to the inflections of her voice for any clues that she was getting tired of talking to me and then try to get off the phone very quickly if I detected she was done talking. Later, I found out that she took an antidepressant that caused sedation at 9:30 on the dot each night and so at 9:45 she got sleepy. It had nothing to do with me. Self-centered fear rears it's shame showering ugly head again. But I moved away and kept her as a long distance sponsor. That worked for awhile until she relapsed. Three weeks later I relapsed. I was sober for 6 years and 10 months. I was out for a little over three months and tomorrow will have 30 days again.

In the new town where I live a woman came up to me in a meeting and basically offered to be my sponsor. She quickly told me I was "whining" and started demanding this and that of me. At first I thought, "Well, this is just a different style." Like Rick, I was still foggy from the drinking. But once I cleared again, I began to trust my intuition and realized, "Hey, this is not how this situation is going to go down with me." I told her that I had a sponsor for many years and stayed sober for many years and that she never once told me I was "whining" even if I was. She certainly never told me I was "whining" 15 times in a 5 minute conversation after knowing me for only 2 weeks.

I feel sad that I do not have a sponsor right now. I miss my old one. I wish I could just call her and make things like they were before. I believe that what I am feeling is grief. I can't let it interfere with my program and I am going to have to find a suitable substitute. Sponsorship is about frienship and guidance and "brotherhood," as I believe Graham mentioned.

I have some familiarity with the psychiatric community. Rick, you mentioned that several doctors said they would not treat you unless you were in the hospital. And that you were having problems sleeping. You sound like you are struggling quite honorably under some harsh circumstances out there in the "bush." But I can assure you that we no longer have plaques on the walls of patients who have died in the hospital. Sometimes serious mood disorders can show up as severe anxiety, an inability to sleep, difficulty thinking clearly, irrational behavior. I know you don't trust doctors right now but I hope you will somehow find the medical help you need in addition to Graham and other's excellent recommendations. If you know anybody in AA in your area you can ask around to find out who the "good" psychiatrists are and which ones are not so "good." I'm sorry you're going through this rough time but I'm glad to see that you are reaching out to others on a regular basis.


Member: Jeff
Location: Ne.
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 12:26:40 AM

Comments

Les Thanks! I thought I was alone, traped in my own mind again. Good point, lets stick to AA.This is the very same reason I dont go to too many meetings any more.Maybe I'm wrong but I thought we talked about problems with ALCOHOL???


Member: Rick S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 12:55:01 AM

Comments

Hi,it's me, the whiny pest that bored you all last night.

It was real self-flaggulation. You kicked the SHIT out of me with logic.

I'm going to sleep now, because I have a life to wake up to tomorrow.

You ALL pitched in to help me, and I'll NEVER forget that! We are friends and yet total strangers.

I'm still all screwed up, but I'm betting better!

(Still kicking the Ativan after a month. Wow! what a ride to Hell.)

I love you all!

Rick S. (Still alive-You lose the bet!)


Member: Karla Hampton
Location: Billings,Montana
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 4:54:50 AM

Comments

First of all I always like to participate in meetings about Sponsorship!! Good Topic! For me Sponsorship is absoultly VITAL to my recovery.You see I am a taco short of a combonation platter.In my disease of this progressive illness I did not know how to differencate the truth from the false and I thought my perception was right.But, since I have been sober and working with intensly with my sponsor I have found that my perception is quite off.Things are not always the way I percieve them.You see I have the disease of perception.I also found out that I can not always listen to my head or my feelings because they will lie to me.You see my disease wants me ioslated and alone and dead,but it will settle for me drunk or high.I did not know that about myself.I always went around thinking I was different and no one understood me and mainly was I did not understand what the hell was wrong with me.I tried to commit suicide 23 times and I went to psychiartrist and counselors and psych wards and ended up in the Montana State Hospital twice before the age of 19.I also got married to an alcholic and a druggy,but you see "I was not that bad". He was the one with the problem.But here I was the problem.You see I always thought everyone was sure to blame and everyone else had a problem.If everyone would just do what I want them to do life would be wonderful.Yeah Right.As long as I am the problem I have a solution.If you are the problem then I am fucked!You see my sponsor has taught me all this.Whenever I got a head full of shit ,it is nice to have her to sort out the truth from the bullshit.Now,My sponsor has royally pissed me off before,but she would not be a good sponsor if she did not piss me off.Sponsors that dont ever piss you off are not doing you a favor.We call those kinda of sponsors here in Montana"Feel Good Sponsors" I can not afford that kinda of sponsor.I need one that isnot going to co-sign my B.S. I also think I"M terminally unique and you see my case is truly different.That's the dilusion which means(LIE)that my disease loves to feed on.My sponsor has showed me that I"M NO different.My sponsor has taught me "That I am a child of God,NO BETTER NO WORSE then ANYONE ELSE,Just a Child Of God.You know when I put that into practice then I am at peace with you and me.You see when you have a sponsor and you work on that relatoinship and you don"t worry about a her/him or what they are doing or not.Then I guarentee that things will get better.But,you see when I have a sponsor or I am working with others all of my other relationships are better.Building a relationship with a sponsor is very Important,because it sets the pattern for all other relationships whether or not it be my Parents or my Fiance or my Little Boy or my College Professors or my fellow women in A.A. Or whom ever it maybe.That's why I drank,because I did not know how to have a decent relationship with anyone.All I can say is:Thank God for Sponsors.I sponsor 10 gals and I thank God that I have got them in my life.I would not have them in my life if it was not for The Grace of a Loving God and a Sponsor.God lead me to my Sponsor and My Sponsor has lead me back to God!!! Good Luck! If Sex is troublesome we throw ourselves the harder into helping others.Page 70 in the big book.If you do not have a sponsor I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU GET ONE!!! Get a Sponsor,go to alot of meetings and work the 12 Steps out of the Big Book and go see what you can add to life then take from and see where you can be Of Maxium Service To God's Kids and Not worry about your Marriage.If you are truly Willing to go to any length for victory over alcholism then you will get A sponsor and do these things that I have suggested.It all boils down to do it or don't.If you want to be happy joyous and free then you will do just this!I hope I have made sense to someone!


Member: Rick J
Location: Missouri
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 8:33:42 AM

Comments

These topics always seem to appear on-line and F2F when I need them the most.

I've had some of those Tin God Sponsors refered to earlier in this discussion. It wasn't a pleasant experience at all. The whole group followed this guy along his journey and failed to walk their own path to recovery. Needless to say, the group didn't last nor did I. I went back out for 6 years until I summoned up enough courage to walk back in the doors of AA and find a real sponsor who will call me on my shit, make me look at my part, and most of all...Live My Steps. It's been a little over two years now since I've been back and just started working with a newcomer who is young and scared. I'm learning the other side of sponsorship, the giving side. It is true that a newcomer can work you to death and drive you into the book for answers. God must have known I needed it cuz here it is right in front of me. I thank God every morning for this task at hand and pray for guidance along the way


Member: Charles O'Reilly
Location: NY
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 9:27:52 AM

Comments

I'm in early recovery, I live in a sober house on long island and I ATTEND AN OUT PATIENT PROGRAM.


Member: Craig L (dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 10:40:55 AM

Comments

The first time I came to AA I was told to get a sponsor. I had no clue what that meant and still being quit insane, I believed I could keep a low profile and figure it all out myself. The idea of needing and asking for help was repugnant to me. I had all kinds of reasons for asking my first sponsor to help me, but very few had anything to do with real recovery. He kept telling me “all I have to change is everything.” But hey! I was so together, I just needed to stop or control my using. I kept going back out until I was thoroughly beat into submission. On leaving detox the last time, I finally realized step 1, I was truly powerless and my life was totally unmanageable. One of my biggest errors, I kept expecting a “burning bush” experience. I heard all those tales of phenomenal sponsors who spoke with great profundity, but all I found in AA was a bunch of fallible real people. As I went through the steps again, to the best of my abilities this time. Something happened and I found serenity. This serenity is a gift for which I am grateful every time I consider it and I’ve had it for several 24 hours now. It is contingent on my keeping God first, always trying to show compassion and being of service to others. Today I am grateful for all you “real people” in AA who show me daily how to live sanely. Many times showing me what to do, and sometimes showing me what not to do.


Member: Erin B
Location: Chicago
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 2:52:56 PM

Comments

How can you determine if you are a heavy drinker or if you are an alcoholic?

From my perception on what I've read, it appears that alcoholism is a disease that you can't control - opposed to being a heavy drinker is something that one should be able to control.

Anybody have any advice? Would the AA program and a sponsor really help if you aren't fightiing the disease?

Thanks.


Member: Claudia A.
Location: beachside Florida
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 6:01:44 PM

Comments

First timer here. I've been sober over a year and only with the help of A.A. Sat on my hands and still running on faith that it gets better. Anything better then living in the woods and believing no way in hell could I be sane again. Hey they say just try us on for 90 days or so and see what you think. By then I knew if I wanted to live (which I wasn't sure) these people could teach me how. Love you all, Claudia


Member:   Steve K         
Location: Swan Lake, N.Y.
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 8:35:04 PM

Comments

Steve alcoholic. I qualified at a meeting last night. Thouhgt I wouldn`t have the confidence but it came easy with the help of my HIGHER POWER. Talk to you later.


Member: Joshua
Location: Texas
Date: 11/8/2001
Time: 11:36:48 PM

Comments

This is my first time on the sight. I want to thank everyone for sharing. This is a great meeting site.

I really can relate to the comments about a sponsor being our first true honest relationship.I have learned so much about how to treat people from my sponsor. It seems that I have picked this up from my sponsors actions and not so much by his sharing with me. I do believe a sponsor should have certain qualifications, and I am truly grateful that their are people who come before us. I myself picked my sponsor I believe because he came up to me and intruduced himself to me, and ask about me. That unconditional exceptance was what I had been looking for my intire life. I only know that today from coming back day after day, and following simple suggestions that I see others following I've come to know this.


Member: AZbill
Location: Arizona
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 1:13:31 AM

Comments

Hello Bill here, Alcoholic from Arizona. The best way to find out about sponsorship is to read the Pamphlet on "Questions and Answer on Sponsorship.

AA actually began with sponorship when Bill Wilson chose to help another alcoholic instead of going to the bar at the Mayflower Hotel in Akron.

Essentially sponsorhip is just this. An alcoholic who has made some progress in the recovery system shares that experience with another on an individual and ongoing basis with another alcohoic who is attempting to attain or maintain sobriety.

Remember sponsor and sponsee meet as equals just as Bill and Bob did. And remember we owe our sponsors nothing. They are doing it to save their own butt They need us as much as we need them.

Bill az-bill@mindspring.com


Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,IL
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 6:24:46 AM

Comments

I have a sponsor and I have Good relations with him we go to the meetings to gather. He makes a point to call me atlest once a week even if I slow down or slack in my meetings it has to be almost one every day. So far I have reamined sober. thnks to all grreatful members of AA and Al Anon.


Member: CATHYV.
Location: DENVER, CO
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 11:29:26 AM

Comments

HELLO, MY NAME IS CATHY. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME IN HERE. THIS IS MY STORY SHORT AND SWEET. I AM 37 YEARS OLD. I HAVE 4 CHILDREN. TWO OF WHICH LIVE AT HOME. I HAVE HAD AT LEAST FOUR BEERS EVERY NIGHT FOR THE PAST SIX MONTHS. DONT KNOW IF THAT MAKES ME AN ALCOHOLIC, BUT WOULD LIKE TO STOP. DONT HAVE BLACK OUTS OR ANY OTHER PROBLEMS RELATED TO DRINKING. HAVE ALOT OF ANXIETY, WHICH MAKES ME HAVE THE NEXT DRINK. I KNOW I WILL HAVE ANOTHER DRINK TONITE. I TELL MYSELF EVERYDAY THAT I AM NOT GOING TO DRINK TONITE, AND I DO. NEED ADVICE OF SOME KIND. AND HOW DO I GET A SPONSER? AND WHAT DO THEY DO FOR YOU?


Member: ndw
Location: seattle
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 4:31:51 PM

Comments

I don't find it hard to be honest and open with my sponser. None of my sponsers, because if I can't trust them then I can't help myself. I am very open about my life because I know I need help and if I hide things I don't want people to know then that is like a bomb waiting to go off. Its hard to find a sponser that has enough time to take time out to spend with you and actually work the steps and listen and really help me. Or a sponser that I know that will work for me. I have a new sponser now I have been in the program for 3 years and I keep relapsing I have 7 days clean and its hard. I do need this fellowship I know that!


Member: ndw
Location: seattle
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 4:32:20 PM

Comments

I don't find it hard to be honest and open with my sponser. None of my sponsers, because if I can't trust them then I can't help myself. I am very open about my life because I know I need help and if I hide things I don't want people to know then that is like a bomb waiting to go off. Its hard to find a sponser that has enough time to take time out to spend with you and actually work the steps and listen and really help me. Or a sponser that I know that will work for me. I have a new sponser now I have been in the program for 3 years and I keep relapsing I have 7 days clean and its hard. I do need this fellowship I know that!


Member: TMG
Location: North
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 5:01:12 PM

Comments

This may be of help to someone!

Look and see!

http://www.geocities.com/tmgnorth/wc.html


Member: PK
Location: UK
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 7:33:49 PM

Comments

Hello People

Paul here Alcoholic? why else would I be here?

Sponsers?

My first sponser, who I met for the first time in around 9 yrs, had just had a bad turn with what we all talk about. He had been sober for a long while, I went off to pastures new (europe) (around 10 yrs ago) lost contact with him, found myself tempted just the once and that was a big once. It lasted a few years, that's when I decided to try again, I certainly had nothing to lose, as I had nothing...

Anyway now I have lots of freinds in AA but no direct sponser, I've been through the steps in My order. The Books all say they sugest things not you must.

That's something I have now a days, a choice I can do almost anything when I get stuck I always ask someone the way. the someone who I think will help me and if I'm not sure about what I hear, I ask someone else and so on.

That about sums it up for me all I can say is have a good one "whatever it is"

PK UK


Member: richard m
Location: sarasota, fla
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 7:48:42 PM

Comments

hello my name is richard , i am an alcoholic. My sobrity date is dec . 28, 1985..i have 5795 days today ~~~~~ my first sponser told me i wasn't capable of independent thought ......welli still am not drinking ......i useually refer to my sponser ...not the previously mentioned one ..., as jesus christ ...because i am sober by the grace of god.......other human entites have guided my footsteps along the way ..as i now am and have been totaly and permanently disabled for over 16 yrs...... i do not drink over anything ..i attend meetings on a regular basis and attend my church on a regular basis...take my medications 18 times a day and try to have a nice life and take care of my self when , i am able......i love the holy spirit and try to stay available for a right relationship with a gal......hopefully i am even able to help some one find the big book and perhaps find a closer relationshp with god ~who knows?? all of my sponsers aree women and i never reveal whom thet are ...anonymity you know .? well thanks for reading this a nd if i can help ..e mail me ..rjpmoody@webtv.net.love works......


Member: TMG's HP
Location:
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 8:16:02 PM

Comments

TMG - Knock it off, we don't allow advertising.


Member: LAURA H
Location: NJ
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 10:01:36 PM

Comments

HI ALL, MY NAME IS LAURA AND I'M AN ALCOHOLIC. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AT THIS SITE AND I LIKE ALL THE FEEDBACK- IT'S VERY HELPFUL. SARAH- YOU SOUND LIKE YOU REALLY NEED SOME HELP. BEING YOUNG AND IN COLLEGE WHERE EVERYONE IS DRINKING HAS IT'S ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES- YOU ARE LUCKY THAT YOU ARE FACING THE FACT THAT YOU ARE PROBABLY AN ALCOHOLIC AND ARE LOOKING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I JUST REALIZED THAT I HAVE BEEN AN ALCOHOLIC FOR A LONG TIME, BUT DIDN'T KNOW IT. I THOUGH JUST BECAUSE I STARTED HIDING MY DRINKING LAST YEAR, THAT I WAS ONLY AN ALCOHOLIC FOR A YEAR. WHEN I LOOK BACK AT H.S. AND COLLEGE, I NOW KNOW THAT I WAS WAY OVERDOING THE DRINKING THEN TOO. YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AT A YOUNG AGE TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR THE BETTER. BE BRUTALLY HONEST WITH YOURSELF AND THINK ABOUT YOUR DRINKING. IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE A DRINK IN THE MORNING AND DURING CLASSES AND ARE SHAKING TERRIBLY WITHOUT IT, YOU REALLY SHOULD CALL 800-245-1377 AND/OR GET TO A MEETING. TAKE IT AN HOUR AT A TIME OR A MINUTE AT A TIME IF YOU HAVE TO, BUT JUST DONT TAKE THAT DRINK. GOD BLESS, KEEP IN TOUCH


Member: Susan M.
Location: Linden, N.J.
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 10:09:39 PM

Comments

Scott:Great topic! Without a sponsor-who monitors my progression (or regression?) This person knows me better than any. My life depends on it, so I make it that way.

Yvonne:It's true...just like drinking...we don't do anything wholeheartedly until we're ready. This is a program of attraction-not promotion right? The attraction was the patience and tolerance your sponsor showed you since we all need to be treated with love and respect.Where else can we find this unconditional love and support?

LeeEllen:It is an honor to sponsor someone... lest we forget where we come from.


Member: Susan M.
Location: Linden, N.J.
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 10:32:22 PM

Comments

Graham:I believe a sponsor's primary job(volunteered out of unconditional love and service)is to guide them thru the Twelve Steps, so that they can do their own footwork and grow.Also, so that "the promises" may come true for them as they have for me....

Lessa E.:My God! I am so glad you caught on to this womans' inability to give you what you need.Good for, girl!You saved your own life! God will provide another sponsor for you the way it's meant to be. Be patient,keep your eyes and ears open and try again.If you run into the same kind of problem again, let her go.If enough people do this, in time they come to terms with themselves. If not,at least your not part of her insanity anymore.(Check out what I said to Graham.)


Member: john h
Location: abbotsford
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 10:43:31 PM

Comments

hi, John H and i am an alcoholic. Intresting how many folks relate to getting, keeping and losing sponsors. I could say that i wasted 15 years in A.A. because i never did try to develop a relationship with a sponsor, or i could look at the last 7 and say that perhaps those first 15 years in and out were what i needed to do. By the grace of my god i am alive today and with the help and friendship of my sponsor this program and way of life is alot easier to figure out at times. Today though, i wish that i had had my sponsor way back then. Maybe


Member: Susan M.
Location: Linden,N.J.
Date: 11/9/2001
Time: 10:55:22 PM

Comments

SarahS.:You're the most important person online right now,whether you know it or not. What's up, Sarah?You're never a bother if you when you need help.Afterall,you made the effort to sign on,didn't you.Yes...you matter.. E-mail me at:PSJEMeagher@aol.com


Member: Malcolm S
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 12:23:38 AM

Comments

Hi everyone, I'm Malcolm and I'm an alcoholic.

I have just recently come back into the program after having gone out to do some more "research". I was (and am still) very ashamed of having "slipped". I found it extremely hard to call my former sponsor or even show my face in my home group again. But, I had no choice - I needed help! To my surprise, my sponsor (and the rest of the members of my group) did not judge me but told me that that they were glad to see me and how happy they were that I was willing to give it another shot. I am just blown away by the unconditional acceptance - no matter what I have done! In the past, my pride prevented me from asking for help from my sponsor. I always thought I was bothering him. Plus I have always been a good pretender that everything in my life was going great, when it wasn't. How hard it is to be truthful about how I am feeling! I now realize that I am fighting for my life here and that I am also helping him stay sober by asking for his assistance. We now talk on the phone at least once a day and he is helping guide me through the pile of problems I have created for myself due to my drinking. His basic advice to me is 1) go to meetings; 2) don't pick up a drink and 3) call for help when I'm "twisting". Everything else will fall into place in time. I am trying, sometimes hour by hour, to follow this simple advice. Just get my "butt" to a meeting everyday, whether I want to or not. I am very grateful that I have another chance, but I am scared.


Member: TB
Location: IL
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 1:36:50 AM

Comments

Ii've been in the program for six months and I am finally very open with my sponsor. I feel as if I can talk to her about anything now. Right now I'm dealing with being too honest with her with me having sex. I know it is suggested not to have a relationship in the first year but I feel as if I cannot control myself with this situation. I am abstaining from sex as much as I can. I also have a problem with people who do not want to venture out on their own. I feel that at this point in my sobriety I do not need an old using person around me because my memories are still fresh in my head. So seeing her and hearing her talk triggers old memories. I do not understand the fact that I can hang around with a newcomer that I never used with and enjoy their company so much and I am the elder.(I am 23 and she is 37) I think it has a lot to do with I have no memories with that person. I asked my sponsor one time when is my honeymoon period going to be over because I love everyday as if it were my last. She said I am living life on lifes terms which gave me a lot of hope right now in my sobriety that I am following the right path.


Member: LT
Location: IL
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 1:44:46 AM

Comments

I am the 37 year old who has the 23 year old. I am 10 days sober and very new to the progra. I have gone to 30 meetings in 10 days. In that time I have been meeting different people and ready to find a sponsor which I know is one of the most important things to do when you come into the program. The elder I have gone to meetings with has taught me so much already and she has been a great asset to my sobriety only having known her for 5 days. I will enjoy reading your comments as I am so new to the program.


Member: Sarah
Location:
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 2:12:02 AM

Comments

I have decided to cut back and see how that goes. After thinking about it and talking with my boyfriend, I am not really sure that I fit into the "alcoholic" category. He offered to take me to a meeting, but I am not very comfortable with that idea quite yet. For now, I think that this is a good resource just in case this trial run doesn't work out. Besides, I am not sure that I want to give up drinking.


Member: Rich R, s-l-o-w-l-y recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Detroit (richr_srcp@hotmail.com)
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 6:42:37 AM

Comments

Rich R, alcoholic etc. Darn it, sponsorship. I wish I had a bunch of 'good stuff' to share on this topic but I don't. Let's put it this way if I had to get married to my sponsors, I would be paying a lot of alimony right now! And, I don't do that great a job of sponsoring others either. Know what? I think I'll shut up and go back and read what others have shared on this topic, maybe, just maybe, I'll learn something. Thanks for the topic Scott. Once again, this board is very valuable to me.


Member: Claudia A.
Location: Florida
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 12:09:06 PM

Comments

Hello, Claudia from sunny Florida. I'd like to join in on some computer sharing. I'm very busy now, don't know where I ever found the time to drink. When I was drinking, all I had was time. I've sober since July 7, 2000. I don't like it all the time but anything is better than where I was. Love all you all. Claudia


Member: valerie s.
Location:
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 2:59:56 PM

Comments

I'm Valerie and I am an alcoholic, this feels very strange (1st time on this site) but what a great idea! In many ways this beats a real meeting b/c you can scan through at your own pace. (I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever wanted to fast foward someone in a meeting :) )

Anyway on sponsorship after 12 years at this, many without a sponsor, my advise is just get one - they don't have to be perfect just do it!

I have had several sponsors (due to moving around) and this last move I went w/out a sponsor for too long. I finally told myself one night that whoever was leading the meeting I was about to go to would be the person I would ask & I did. I did feel the need to switch later but it worked for a few years - I didn't drink.

Good luck to all, esp. those who don't want to be here.

and thank you for this meeting Valerie


Member: Sarah
Location: NW USA
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 4:42:38 PM

Comments

To Sarah S. from another Sarah. You are no bother at all, keep coming back... you say you are in college, there are some really nice A.A. meetings on college campuses all across the U.S. Try going to one. When I first came around I was not sure I wanted to stop drinking, I wasn't sure of much of anything ... but I called the local A.A. number in the phone book and they talked with me, took me to a few meetings then I decided I wanted to stay sober. The woman who helped me was very nice, she told me it was okay when I phoned starting from where I started ... a drunk wanting to talk to an A.A. member because I had some problems due to drinking. It was the begining. You are not a bother, you are very welcome here. Give A.A. a try. Keep coming back. Welcome Sarah S. from another Sarah


Member: Kelly B
Location: NY
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 5:18:48 PM

Comments

Hi all! I'm back for my second try at getting sober! I realize now that the first thing I need to do is get a sponsor and quit trying to convince myself that I can do it on my own. I tried that and it failed! So I'm going to my first f2f in over a year and will get a sponsor! Thanks for being here for me and I'll let you know how it goes!


Member: Faye G
Location: Alabama
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 8:34:59 PM

Comments

Hello, my name is Faye and I am a grateful recovering alcoholic. I have been in the program for 19 years. This is my first online meeting. I came because I have quit smoking and my home group is a smoking group. I am not quite able to attend it right now and we only have 1 non smoking group in the area. I think sponsorship is one of the most crucial parts of recovery. For so long we have been fearful of so many things, intimacy, trust, etc and it is hard to allow ourselves to open to to another human being. I was so blessed when I first came into the program to have a wonderful, caring and very wise sponsor. I would not take anything for her. She taught me so much about being unselfish, giving encouragement, being tolerant of others (including myself) and creating an intimate relationship with my Higher Power through the steps. I thank God that he put her into my life. Sponsorship not only helps the newcomer, but also the sponsor to go in their recovery by sharing what the program has so freely given them. So all you newcomers, getting a sponsor may be the first unselfish thing you have done in you lifetime. God Bless you and hang in there.

Faye


Member: Doug K.
Location: Damp and leafless woods of West Michigan
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 9:05:24 PM

Comments

Doug - alcoholic; and sorry for the double-post(though I'm not sure why).

Just wanted to add that having a sponsor or a sponsee should not cause me too much concern as they can be fired at any time on a moments notice. Just get one - if they don't help - fire 'em.


Member: Ruth H
Location: California
Date: 11/10/2001
Time: 9:28:55 PM

Comments

Having a sponsor who has a sponsor is what I was told. It has worked for 9 years and counting (One day at a time!)!

As to "firing" a sponsee or sponsor - I don't understand how you can "fire" someone you didn't hire. Sound like someone is presuming to have some control or power that I chose to leave in His hands.


Member: A friend
Location:
Date: 11/11/2001
Time: 3:00:18 AM

Comments

((Cathy V)) in Denver. The first thing for you, darlin, is to decide if you'd like to stop drinking. If so, then the next thing for you to do is find a "live" meeting where you can talk to some sober alcoholics face to face. Don't worry about all that other stuff, blackouts and all. You're the one who knows whether or not you have a problem. Do a lot of listening at that meeting as well. Get some phone numbers, and the next time you need a drink, call someone before you take it. Or better yet, go to another meeting before you take that drink. Don't be ashamed to tell someone that you need a drink. If you'll continue with that pattern, I bet you'll land a sponsor before you know it. You may even leave your first meeting with one. Love to you, darling, and to everyone else here.


Member: Julia S
Location: UK
Date: 11/11/2001
Time: 5:15:28 AM

Comments

There are a few 'newcomers' on this web site (ie people who have never ben to an AA meeting before or who aren't that famliar with AA and how it works) The good news is: it works. However, the way to work it is to get to a meeting.

I bet all this talk of sponsorship and steps seems a bit wierd. When I went into my first AA meeting I was scared, thought I had sunk to such low depths! I knew I had an alcohol problem but didn't think I was an alcoholic. I knew I couldn't lick this myself and needed help, so swallowed my pride and called AA who arranged for someone to take me to a meeting. It was encouraging to go to my first meeting and find out that I didn't have to even say my name, I could sit at the back and listen. I was extremely wary, but for some reason I kept going back to more meetings. Some part of me wanted desperately to stop drinking, but I didn't really realise that at the time all of the time.

Anyone can go to a meeting, it is worth just sitting and listening and finding out if you can identify with anything that anybody says.

There are no rules, and for the first 9 months I was too scared to open my mouth and speak. That was ok, it was what I needed. To anyone who is reading this and wondering if they are an alcoholic, the best advice I can give is to pick up the phone and call AA. Tell the person who picks up the phone that you want to go to a meeting, and if you want they can arrange for someone to take you if you are nervous (this helped me). This is much much more valuable than any website. This won't make sense if you have never been to a meeting, just trust me on this. You won't have to do anything at the meeting, just sit youself down on a chair and listen. It is anonymous, so you need not worry about anything.

I rarely offer advice, but millions of people have saved their lives by going to AA meetings: don't rely on a web site, get to a meeting. Meetings first, web site etc 2nd. It works.


Member: Tom K
Location: NE
Date: 11/11/2001
Time: 6:58:24 AM

Comments

After 6 or 7 years in the program,I ound that I had never actually DID Step 3.I had only made a decsion that I might.My H P took away the desire to drink the day before I walked in to my first meeting.Just not drinking and on a DRY DRUNK ,(same as I had always acted)I finally actually DID step 3.THE SINNERS PRAYER,to me is what it is all about.My HP is J C.I feel that if you do not DO step 3,come back when you are ready.It is so easy,ad so GREAT.Why do the STEPS memtion GOD ,or him,his 8 times?


Member: Gina W
Location: New Zealand
Date: 11/11/2001
Time: 7:32:01 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Gina and I'm an alcoholic. Thanks everyone for your comments, they have been really helpful. Talking about sponsorship can be touchy for me. I am just off two years sober and have been umming and ahhing about my sponsor for a long time. I wanted her sponsor to be my sponsor but she was all booked up so I got my sponsor because she was free. She is 29, my own age and has been sober for six years and has a sponsor. That has got to be good. She is the opposite of many of these "controlling" sponsors in that she won't give much advice at all and is a little bit hard to talk to. She is what we call over here a bit "staunch". Anyway, I believe in having sponsors, but I haven't seen anyone else that I would want. The truth is because I have spent these past two years going to a young people's meeting where every second person is still in treatment and most are under one. This group has been very important to me and has offered the stability I needed. I am quite shy and very sensitive, and to be honest I find AA meetings very scarey most of the time. But I've realised that as I move on in my recovery this will change, but to stay in recovery I need to step out. I have decided to take the 90 day challenge like our friend Jeff suggested. I believe that will give me some perspective and will help me to mature in my recovery. Thanks everyone. Gina.