Member: Jimmy Z
Location: Seminole Fl
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 10:12:16

Comments

Hi my name is Jimmy I am an alcoholic. I would like to discuss twelfth step work,and how important it is. I just celabrated three wonderful years of continuous sobriety,after moving to Florida from Chicago. I called my first sponser up north and he was thrilled to hear how well I was doing. I never had more than a week sobriety in Chicago but I now realize how important that first twelfth step call was. Thank you for leting me share.


Member: Carla M.
Location: Sarnia, Ontario
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 12:30:10

Comments

Hi. My name's Carla, and I'm an alcoholic. I just posted some comments in Coffee Pot, but then I noticed what the topic was this week, and wanted to throw in my two cents (Canadian: not worth much, nowadays!). Look, the fact is that if I don't share what's been so freely given to me, there's no way I'll be able to keep it. It seems to me that the only way my recovery deepens is to share my experience with a still-suffering alcoholic. God has given me a job to do. It's as simple as that. The bonus is that it feels so good to be of use to another alcoholic. Quite frankly, I don't think I deserve to feel so good! I'm not sure I'll ever really understand why God did (and still does, every day) for me what I couldn't do for myself, but I do know that it's my job to share what I've learned with others. Otherwise, what's the point? I can't waste this gift. God Bless, everyone.


Member: Sandi D.
Location: Salem, OR
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 13:06:26

Comments

I'm Sandi and i'm an Alcoholic.

12 step work is probably my favorite topic for any meeting. Thank you.

I know that if the people that 12 stepped me into this program had said, "no, i'm too busy" or "I have a previous committment". I may not be here today.

I was told when I got sober that if I want to stay sober, the word no was not an option when it came to working with another alcoholic.

I have also learned over the years that there are many different types of 12 step work including, making coffee, sharing in meetings, cleaning up, answering the phones, sponsoring people, and that is just the tip of the iceberg!

I love this program and know that without it, I would probably be dead or suffering worse than I think I do now.

Thanks for the topic. today I am a greatful recovering alcoholic.


Member: Dale S.
Location: California
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 13:18:55

Comments

Hi my name is Dale and I'm a real Alcoholic.

Step12-"Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs" Is a spiritual awakening the same as a spiritual experience? I don't think so. A lot of people have spiritual experiences but continue to drink. I believe that a spiritual awakening is more like a God consciousness. But that is just my opinion. "This message" what message? Do they mean some crap that I made up or stuff I heard at a meeting? How about the message from the stories at the back of the book? NO! The Big Book is very clear on this point. "The Message is contained in the first 164 pages of the Big Book." We tried to carry this message to ALCOHOLICS. We have been graced with the ability to help a class of people that were given up as hopeless. Recovering alcoholics can help alcoholics, millions have been saved. "Practice these principles". I have heard much talk about "these Principles". On the net recently I saw a list of 36 principles. I have also seen a bookmark with the 12 principles: honesty, trust, love,….What I know believe (and it seems quite simple to me now) is that the principles they are referring to are nothing more than the 12 steps themselves. They are the principles. Practicing them in all my affairs, That sounds hard. Maybe I can wait until I become spiritually awakened to carry the message and practice the principles in all my affairs. WRONG! Guess what would have happened if Bill Wilson would have waited to carry the message to Dr. Bob Smith. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that one out. This is one of the paradoxes of the program. You have to give it way to keep it.


Member: Tara R.
Location: Queens, New York
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 13:24:57

Comments

My name is Tara and I'm an alcoholic. I'm sober 8 months now and I'm not too sure about 12 step work. I have an old boyfriend who contacted me to tell me that he is now 10 days sober and that he would like to get together for any advice that I may have for him. I'm faced with issues I've never had to deal with before. I would like very much for him to be a part of my life again in a friendly way, especially now that he's sober, but I remember how messed up I was during my first few months. I want to help, but I don't want to end up hurting in the end. He'll look to me for advice and answers and I don't want to say something that will turn him away from this wonderful world of A.A. I guess I just have to pray on this one and hope my defaults of caracter don't get in the way. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: BUTCH S.
Location: JACKSON MS>
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 13:42:55

Comments

Hi BUTCH HERE.AN ALCOHOLIC AA can help you put the plug in the jug.What is required to get sober BIG BOOK-PAGE 13 and 14.Aprogram for life BIG BOOK-PAGE 311.Our proublem BIG BOOK PAge 103.My point being READ THE BIG BOOK ALL OF IT We can't give away what we do not have.Learn what is in the big book before trying to help another alcoholic.We can do more harm if we don't.I have seen someone in to early trying RESULTS TWO VERY DRUNK ALCOHOLICS NOT KNOWING WHY!!!!!BUTCH


Member: don w
Location: Akeley mn.,
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 15:15:11

Comments

Hi I am don a gratefull recovering alcoholic.. yes thanks for the 12 step.. and for those that cared and carried me when i could not.. making the coffee , opening up the building for the evening . ,, speaking at open AA meetings , at treatment centers,. and working the suffering and the recovering are all parts of this step.. sponsorship is a vital part of my AA life.. yrs ago after working with a new comer for 4 years, and after seeing him get 6 different 30 day medallions and then relaping again. a realization came to me that he was helping me and my soberity more then i was helping him.. I believe that the HP put him in my life for me.. and secondly for him.. Well the HP works in misterious ways. as thru no credit for me , only to AA and God this man has 9 yrs of continious soberity..


Member: BRIAN H.
Location: RAPID CITY S.D.
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 15:27:12

Comments

HI I'M BRIAN, ALCOHOLIC, when I got here I wanted soberity but still had a deep down need to drink, so this is what I discovered in the BB and began pacticing and still practice to this day, at the begining of my day I ask God for the srength and honesty to stay sober and clean today, in the same breath I ask God what I can do today to help the alcoholic who still suffers, from that point on the 12th step is no longer in my hands, I will do what God would have me do in that day to carry the message, whether I realize it or not makes little difference. Can't be that easy you might say, let me share with you that next Monday(nov. 9) I will celerbrate 8 years of soberity,I want soberity today as much or more than I did when I got here, but heres the real kicker I don't NEED to drink today, thats that miracle of my life today. Carry the message.......DONE! thanx...BRIAN .


Member: candy G
Location: atlanta, ga
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 15:39:36

Comments

Hi I'm Candy a alcoholic, I only have 60 days, I wish more people really did the 12 step as I am shy and go to a meeting everyday and I share my lonliness and the fact I don't know many people in the program. People talk to me a little but all act as if they are to busy to help or try and be friendly. S


Member: terri
Location: California
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 15:41:01

Comments

Hi, I'm terri, and i'm an alcoholic. I have 11 years of sobriety, and it has been awhile since I have done the 12th step. Thank you for reminding me of the importance of the 12th step. thanks for letting me share.


Member: Loren M
Location: SoCal
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 15:43:11

Comments

Hi! Loren, alcoholic.

BUTCH, now that you've mastered the Big Book take a look at the last paragraph on page 109 of the 12&12. Remember that Bill helped Dr. Bob and others long before the BB was ever conceived.


Member: Bill T
Location: MD Eastern Shore
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 17:00:50

Comments

Like Terri above, I'm grateful to be reminded of the importance of carrying the message. My name is Bill and I am an alcoholic - an old timer, in fact, but for a long time I've been resting on my laurels and taking it for granted, going to meetings only occasionally and, in short, not giving it away. And to keep it you've got to give it away. Now, confronted with some unexpected difficulties in my life, I find that I don't have the level of serenity to which I am normally accustemed. That's really an understatement - the truth is I'm suffering a dry drunk. The solution is simple - I just gotta get my ass in gear and start carrying the message again!


Member: RUDY F
Location: SPRING HILL, FL
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 17:08:52

Comments

HI, RUDY FROM SUNNY FLORIDA---LOVE THE TOPIC,SO LETS GET INTO ACTION. JIMMY Z--SEMINOLE,FL. HERE IS MY E-MAIL ADDRESS, JUST DOWN THE STREET FROM YOU IN SPRING HILL, FLORIDA.,ALSO SOBERED UP IN THE CHICAGO AREA. REACH OUT A HAND--AA IS ALL OVER. drf@hitter.net . HUGS--LOL--RUDY


Member: Randy S.
Location: Manvel, Texas
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 17:30:09

Comments

An entire chapter is devoted to twelve step work in the Big Book. The important thing is that I give freely of myself, and not worry so much about whether I'm helping out or not. The answer to that is for God's eyes only. It's none of my business. The chapter in the Big Book is entitled "Working with others". There's nothing to get by twelve stepping. I work and God watches closely. It is my responsibility to see that a hand is always there to greet the newcomer. I'm a messenger boy. My sponsor said when I first sobered up, "When in doubt just stick you hand out". Or "Don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon". No matter if my twelfth step "recipient" stayed around to see what the program had to offer or ran just as fast as they could into the wild blue yonder, I noticed from the beginning that I was staying put. And I believe that I'll probably stay put as long as I keep sticking that hand out. The twelfth step is one of the only true gauges that remains for me to see that psychic change that has and is taking place within me. If "as we understood Him" suggests how God has manifested Himself in our lives, then there it is for me to see.

Love to all, Randy S.


Member: Linda O
Location: PTB, FL
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 17:50:24

Comments

Hi! I'm Linda and I'm an alcoholic.

Great topic, Jimmy. The mood I'm in right now, I definitely needed it. Randy really puts it in the proper perspective for me. It really isn't any of my business how many people "get" this program -- all I need to do is "suit up and show up." I'll be celebrating ten years in the program in January, and in all that time I've only been on ONE actual 12th step call. With detoxes and treatment centers, we don't have to make 12 step calls the way the founding fathers did. However, I've given my "all" for AA. Why not? I certainly gave my "all" every time I got drunk! As has been mentioned, carrying the message can involve everything from speaking up at a meeting to emptying the coffee pot when the meeting is over. The main thing is that we're THERE -- we're visible to those new to the rooms and don't think for a moment they aren't watching our actions and reactions!

Jimmy, is your home group the Log Cabin? Want to do some 12 step work? How about speaking for me some night at Bay Pines! Maybe we can get 'ol Rudy down from Spring Hill and make it a Staying Cyber meeting!!

In love and service


Member: Rick D
Location: Tampa Florida
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 18:57:27

Comments

Hi, Rick here, alcoholic, The twelth step...good topic....and being the twelth step is like alot of things in life and woek besides AA...that is we get complacent, over confident....and that may separate us from the system completely...the truth is we can keep it if we don't give it away....and we need to be there for the new-comers to see that the system does work...SHARE SHARE SHARE..let God be your guide.


Member: Robert B.
Location: Boise, Idaho
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 19:04:24

Comments

My name is Robert. I am an alcoholic. I took my last drink in 1983. I was first 12-stepped in 1974. I was 12- stepped again in 1976. Don't lose hope if you go on that twelve step call, and you see no effect. people planted the seed for me along the way. A freind of mine is fond of pointing out that the fertilizer can be too fresh for the seed to grow. It may have taken several years to sprout. The people who planted those seeds for me have never seen me sober. But by the Grace of God, SOBER I am! I pay my debt of gratitude to those that planted the seed everytime I talk to a newcomer. Never lose hope. God's time seems on a differint scale than what we think it should be, nevertheless, whether I'm early or late, God is always on time.


Member: Sandy S.
Location: Rome, GA
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 19:07:12

Comments

Hello, my name is Sandra and I'm and alcoholic. I got sober at the famous (infamous) Perry St. Workshop in New York City,the city so niced they named it twice. I have never had a slip in the 14 years of sobrity and I owe it to the good foundation I found at the Workshop where I practically lived while I got sober. God bless alcoholics anonymous. I came in poverty stricken in all areas and now I am happy joyous free and rich in love and joy and the saving grace of god almighty. The promises have manifested manifold. God bless you internet alcoholics. amen, Sandra S., Rome, Georgia


Member: Bob C.
Location: Calgary
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 19:19:24

Comments

Bob C.,alcoholic - DALE - Good point about the spiritual experience/awakening. The awakening happens as a result of these steps and for me means slowing down and seeing the world the way it really is. As far as carrying the message, when this program started they didn't have the 12 steps or the Big Book. Bill W. discovered that he could stay sober by talking to other alcoholics about recovery through God. And Eppy Thatcher had only been sober 2 months when he carried the message to Bill. I am glad that the founders of this program didn't feel that they had to serve some kind of apprenticeship before they could work with another alkie. I can't forget that guys like Bill and Bob were working with others long before they thought up the 12 steps or the B.B. Page xvii says that," stenuous work,one alcoholic with another, was vital to permanent recovery." When I was 2 days sober I knew little of the B.B. or the steps. But I did know what it was like to suffer from alcoholism and that qualified me to be able to sit down and talk to another suffering alcoholic and help him to feel a little less lonely. I get kind of riled when I hear newcomers being told that they have to wait to work with another alkie. When I was in treatment the people that helped me the most were other clients who had very little time in themselves. Keep it simple!! One drunk talking to another!


Member: Willi 4-Tribes
Location: Back woods Georgia
Date: 01 Nov 1998
Time: 23:29:33

Comments

Hi, my name is Willi an American Indian alcoholic I mention that I am Indian so that any ot there who don't know, will know that we are welcome in A.A and there are even some wonderful meetings out here that are FOR Indians. Once I do THAT 12 step offering I can go on with more. I'd like to address one called Tara. When I first got sober I was told as well as witnessed that "they" knew what they were saying when they said a person newly sober should not try to 12 step or "help" a newly sober friend, least they both end up drinking together. You care about this friend and it's natural to be glad he's sober and want to help, but please be very very careful. Be in contact, be supportive, but YOU have to come first. A 12 step to an old frien, especially one who was a drinking friend can lead back to those old steps of drinking. I've seen friends and I've seen lovers try to "help" those they once felt so close to; I've seen them fall together again "just like they used to". To the one called Candy, I'd like to say a couple things also. I remember feeling just like you say you are and wondering why "they" couldn't see that I was shy and why didn't they know I needed them to reach out to me more, be more friendly? I wondered what was wrong with me, or what made me seem invisable. Why can't they see how scared I am? Why can't I fit in: sometimes when I am brave enough to speak and they're looking at me seeming to listen; they turn away completely and start talking to someone else like I wasn't even speaking at all. It's so embarrassing, I'd WANT to be able to become invisible, so I could creep out and maybe go cry or something. I remember those feelings and those mean people very well, you helped me remember. But I remember more, things I hope you NEVER have to remember, not EVER! I remember not staying long, not being able to "take it", not being able to wait until "they" either got better, more friendly or that something turned better. I remember creeping out and going home with a sixpack or small bottle to help my wounds and just cussing them out really good because they didn't like me or welcome me. Then I remember having to go back out for more sixpacks and more bottles- back and forth- in and out, getting so sick I'd have to "crawl back to them", back and forth- in and out. I was "in and out" of the program for a good ten years before I became willing enough to stay no matter what "they" did or didn't do and a miracle finally happened, my Higher Power shoed me how to reach out to those knew ones walking in that door, He showed me that I could because I pretty much knew what "these ones" were feeling and needing, it was really FRESH in my mind, infact I still felt it too! the miracle was that "they" really didn't matter anymore. A even more weird miracle happened along the way, I forgot who "they" even were, but not totally, sometimes when I catch the eye of a "new one" I can still remember enough not to want her or him to see me as a "they". Almost 5 yrs now and "they" did say one thing I managed to hear and still remember well, it was "Don't leave five minutes before the Miracle!". AHO!


Member: Joanne C
Location: Idaho
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 00:15:32

Comments

My name is Joanne, an alcoholic. I just returned from a meeting, feeling awful. Folks were back biting each other and taking inventory, and I didn't say anything, cos those folks have more "time" than I do. This is my home group I am talking about, where I clean out the coffee pot, put away chairs, pick up left over coffee cups... My heart feels sad, and my sponsor isn't home. I am over 10 years sober and feel like attending meetings out of town now, which is unfortunate. Our business meeting is next week, what do you tell oldtimers who have become overconfident and tells everyone to do it their way or die?


Member: Linda P (Traveler)
Location: CA, USA
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 00:58:02

Comments

Linda, an Aloholic.

Taking the message to the still suffering alcoholic, does not necessarily imply newcomers only. I have found over the years that I have been sober that oldtimers like myself need that same message repeatedly heard and carried to us as well. None of us are beyond having difficulties with life and needing to be reminded of what works.

Working with others is a highlight of my daily life. Sponsoring is wonderful. There are many ways, some already mentioned above, where the spirit of 12 Step can be applied by everyone. The one I feel most responsible for is to participate by sharing my story of how it was before I got sober, what happened to me to bring me through the doors of AA, and what my life is like today at a meeting level. It is in those rooms where others are in attendance that we have an opportunity to encourage, inspire, and awaken people to solutions for their condition. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Jimmy Z
Location: seminole Fl
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 05:47:27

Comments

Hi Jimmy Z again, to Linda O yes the log cabin is my home group. I spoke at bay pines about two months ago and would love to do it again you can reach me at donnajimmy@msn.com


Member: Pat R
Location: NYC
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 07:31:33

Comments

Twelve step work can be just taking an active participation in welcoming the newcomer it doesn't have to anything elaborate.


Member: Carol S
Location: Bush Alaska
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 11:09:21

Comments

Hello, Carol S from AK here. Very grateful for this topic because my 17 days sober now is partially due to a 12th step request from a friend. Out here there are few people with knowledge and experience of good, solid AA. From time to time one or two people try to start a meeting and in a few months it falls apart because it degenerates into name calling, finger pointing, and gossip flowing out into the "community". Sad as it sounds, with my l8 years of on and off sobriety and thousands of meetings where I was exposed to wonderful AA wisdom, I have been asked by friends to l2 step their loved ones. I managed to stay sober all last year and this fall a wonderful woman friend came to me in tears about her son who was holed up in a cabin. He had called her in desparation, and had agreed to talk to me. I went out there with a spare copy of the BB and 12&12. Talked to him all day. He had never been to a meeting (no surprise--there aren't any here), and had the typical hostile reactions when I suggested he might check AA out. I felt so helpless because I knew I was no sparkling representative of the program, but what alternative was there? Then I started drinking--lasted a few weeks--long enough to disillusion my friend (the mother) and convince her son that anything I had said about AA was baloney. I felt so worthless, not just because I had blown my own sobriety but that I had betrayed all those wonderful people in the thousands of AA rooms who throughout the years had shared their ES&H with me so that I could climb out of the sewer. So now I am back l7 days, and best of all last Friday I discovered this site on the web as well as Lamplighters. I finally hqve an answer for this young man that is better than depending on "this" slim reed--AA on the web is the only hope for introducing REAL AA into regions like bush Alaska. I cannot pretend to teach anyone how to get and stay sober, but now at least I can help them find it. Lots of people here do not even have electricity, let alone a computer or net access. BUT I DO (since October) and I can let them tune into the words of wisdom here on my computer that I have found (nonstop for the past4 days) from you all. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for being here, sharing, and making the experience of the magic of AA meetings a reality for all of us alcoholics lost in rural Alaska.


Member: Mike W
Location: New England
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 12:21:30

Comments

Hi my name is Mike, grateful Alcoholic. I,d like to share my 12 step story. My dad had been sober for a couple of years in AA. He never mentioned to me that I might have a problem because he knew I wouldn't listen, After all he was the drunk that needed AA not the great I am. Anyway his way of 12 stepping me was to bring me up a 12 pack on Sunday morning when I was suffering most. I think he enjoyed watching me suffer, kinda like entertainment. Anyway it worked, he knida spead up the process. I've been sober over a year know and I can say I work hard on my program and offer my hand out when ever I can.

Tara I am glad for both you and your X boy friend, but be his friend in sobriety NOT his sponsor. Help him, don't lead him that is his sponsors job.

alcohol, an equal opportunity destroyer.


Member: Rita F.
Location: Indianapolis, In
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 14:13:45

Comments

Hi all, I'm Rita, and I AM an alcoholic. I read that twelve stepping is coming to the meetings for the newcomer, to show them how to live life on lifes terms. If we all sat on our laurels and only came to an ocassional meeting, we would not be able to share our comments when a newcomer wants answers to questions when he/she is first sober. I know, and am grateful to you all and my Higher Power. I am sober 82 days now, and this meeting has been a significant part of my recovery thus far. A moment of silence for those still suffering followed by the serenity prayer...everyday. Thanks for letting me share. Rita


Member: Michelle G.
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 17:53:00

Comments

Thank God for those who have come before me and practiced the 12th step of AA. When I first came to AA I was too afraid of everthing and everyone to even think about sticking out my hand. I will always be grateful to those who saw past my fear and embraced me in the loving warmth of the fellowhip of AA. Today, when I am in a meeting and I see that version of me - I give back what was so freely given to me. Today I go out on panels into hospitals. I speak at recovery homes, I sponsor a couple of ladies, I go out on "wet" calls. None of this would be possible if I had not received that initial 12 step call of just plain old acceptance when I walked into my first meeting. Today it is important to my recovery, to my standard of living, that I am always available for another alcoholic.


Member: Donna Z.
Location: Seminole, FL
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 18:54:45

Comments

Hi I'm Donna, an alcoholic. To Candy in GA: hang in there and keep going to those meetings! Connecting with people isn't always easy, especially when your fairly new. Try offering to make coffee and chair some meetings. Make the topic making the newcomer feel welcome! To everyone else who shared here: The topic is 12 step work!!! This lady offered us all an opportunity to do some twelve step work. Candy, you can e-mail me at donnjimmy@ms.com


Member: Chris
Location: Danville, IL
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 20:08:55

Comments

Hi, my name is Chris and I'm an alcoholic. Tara, perhaps one of the most important suggestions I heard in treatment was that womwn should sponsor women, and men should sponsor men.

I'm almost 18 months sober at present who just ended a relationship with a young man with 4 and a half years (so he said) of clean time. He told me one of the qualities about me that he admired the most was that I was (and still am) independent.

It soon became apparent that he was beginning to rely on me more not only more than his sponsor, but than ANYONE.

It's said that we alcoholics don't have relationships, we take hostages. I felt as if I had been taken hostage because it seemed I became this unfortunate fellow's only link outside of meetings.

What I learned was not only how I'm able to recognize that no matter how much I may care for someone, I can't make someone work the program, I can't dictate to anyone how to work their program, and the most painful thing of all, no matter how hard I can wish, I can't wish someone to get well.

Please, Tara, get a sponsor if you don't have one already, and talk about this with her. I'll close with this: I can't be there for others if my own house isn't in order. PEACE.


Member: Frank W
Location: Agusta. Ga.
Date: 02 Nov 1998
Time: 20:57:03

Comments

Candy G from Atlanta. Please ask some of the other women in your group(s) for telephone numbers. There are times when old timers forget somethings and need to be reminded. Just ask its easy. Keep making meetings! It will get better! I have seen it many times in the past few 24 hour periods.


Member: Bridget C
Location: St. Paul, MN
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 01:29:07

Comments

Hi I bridget and I am an alcoholic.

I love this step. I also find it a hard step. I am not great at remebering to work these steps in all my affairs. I just went to a huge AA meeting tonight and the women next to me had never been to a meeting before. I was able to introduce myself aand show her where to get a phone list etc.. It really helped me to remember how scared I was to come to my first meeting.

Thanks,

Bridget C


Member: Bob F
Location: Springfield, Oregon
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 04:04:24

Comments

Hi all. Bob an alky

Candy G: I'll bet that by now you have several people to work with in this life saving program. When I first came through these doors, I didn't know that all I had to do was reach out for help and it would be there. All I needed to do was ask.

It's always amazed me about the willingness of other members to help. When any-one, any-where reaches out then that helping hand should be there. For that I am certainly responsible. I was told to get phone numbers and call before taking that first drink, even if it's in the wee hours of the morning. But don't bother to call if your already drinking. Call before the drink....

I even had one man tell me to call if I thought I had a good enough reason to get drunk. He said I could try to convince him and if he thought the reason was good enough then he would joine me. Needless to say, I never convinced him but calling was a great help to me in my sobriety.

Hang in there. I gets better every day. You never need to take another drink if you don't want to.

Thanks for letting me expound. Please know that I'm not professing instructions, simply offering suggestions that worked well in the past for me.

Lots of AA love to all of you and thank you for my cybriety.


Member: Rivner
Location: Santa Fe, NMex.
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 07:48:10

Comments

HOWDY! ALCOHOLIC; RIVNER. It took me a while to understane just why it was that every time I talk to some sober guy in the program, and I finished with a "Thank you", they always said: "No! Thank YOU!" Then one day someone asked me a few questions and at the end of the conversation they said: "Thank you"; and I heard myself say: "N0! Thank YOU!" Then it hit me. They had given me a chance to say a bunch of stuff which, after I had said it, turned out to be stuff I needed to hear that day anyway. In giving it away I was able to keep it. That was the day I understood the 12th step. Like everythind else in this program, it turned out to be pretty simple. I just had to stop pushing, tugging, prying, etc. and let it happen. Just a bunch of little revelations which, in their simplicity, are awesome. Otherwise, having been the kind of person who preferred to deal with everyone else's recovery rather than my own, I have to be careful to not slip into some "rescuer" mode. It helps me to sort of wait and see who God sticks under my nose. If I get up in the mornin', brush my teeth with gun powder and start shootin' my mouth off to every drunk I see, then that's just me controlling and flashin' my ego. This is not healthy and I usually wind up shootin' off my foot, which is probably fairly appropriate. I walk better if I listen for God's voice. Mine needs no encouragement. My best thinking ...

Riv.


Member: Mark R
Location: Texas Hill Country
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 09:17:24

Comments

Hi...I'm Mark, an alcoholic. I was dry from 1984 to 1997 and never went on one 12 step call (and there is a BIG difference between making coffee and 12 stepping). As a result I became empty inside--the message I carried was a dead one...atropied from lack of exercise...like a muscle. Since coming back in 1997, I have been to emergency rooms with drunks in DT"s...sponsor people...and gone on wet calls. It is AWSOME. The fire that Bill and Bob felt lives! It lives in us everytime we sit down with someone and take time enough to care.

Candy...hang in there girl...and go up and introduce yourself. Others may be as shy as you.

Tell someone...MArk


Member: DJ
Location: NORFOLK
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 14:32:59

Comments

HI; ALKIE!!! HERE,

TRYING TO MOVE BEOND A STEP AND A HALF IN RECOVERY, SO NOT TO USE AA AS A NEW STICK AND PLACE TO HURT PEOPLE. NOT DRINKING BUT BEING MEAN UNDER COVER OF STEPPING SOME ONE. ALKIE'S THE GREATES ALIVE, ALL ARE NOT BREAKING ASS TO BE KIND TO ANY ONE....

GOD BLESS AND HANG ON

!!!!YOUR MIRACLE WILL COME!!!!

DJ


Member: Kerry B.
Location: Idaho
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 15:45:49

Comments

Kerry, an alcoholic

I have heard and believe that nothing happens in God's world by mistake. It helps me to open my mind to all possibilites in any given life situation that may arise.

Having said that, I want to share a true story. This happened to me. It is testament to the power of the message of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Late October, 1979, on a Sunday afternoon, I made a concious decision to throw away all the knowledge I possesed about AA, the people in the program, and my disease. I set out to douse my pain, yet one more time, with alcohol after having a period of 16 months "sober" in the fellowship. I was on a slow suicide mission. And I knew it. The place I went to was a night club, therefore, there were not more than 5 people in the place. I sat down, ordered my drink and proceeded with my plan. I really did not care anymore what happened to me. A rather nice looking gentleman came and sat beside me, much to my dismay, as I was not there to be "picked up." He said to me "Don't I know you from somewhere?" I rolled my eyes, yea sure, here we go. Then he said "I know, you go to the Saturday night candlelight meetings." I thought, oh great, just what I needed. It made me mad, really. Now, I want you all to know that he had also ordered a drink. This made me smile, I thought "Aha, another loser, just like me." We started talking, much like what is shared around the tables in meetings. I told him exactly what I was doing, and why. He had only gone to the meetings because he was court ordered. After talking a while, he made a deal with me. He said "if you will quit drinking, so will I" because he had heard the message in the meetings, and knew that I was a candidate for the graveyard. We both quit that day. I don't know about him, or what happened to him, as he made sure I got home okay, and walked out of my life. I couldn't even tell you his name.

I tripped up and slipped a few more times in the following 5 months. Never more than one drink, or one day. Never did get drunk again. I have been coming back, sober, a day at a time since 1980.

Now, I don't know if you can call what happened to me a 12 step call, because it really isn't the way we do them. But to me, as I have reflected back on that day many times, I have come to realize that the message can be carried by anyone who has heard it, even if they have had "success" with the program or not. I have heard even the newest people say things that have helped me, even if they themselves don't fully comprehend what they are saying. It is truely one of the miracles of the program. Kinda like when Bill W. talked to Bob S., without the benefit of the Big Book and the Steps.

I am not in any way saying it's okay to keep drinking. As a matter of fact, no one ever has to drink again if they don't want to.

Thank God and AA and the folks that came before me for saving my life. It has been one heck of a 12 step call on me.


Member: Mark L.
Location: Seattle
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:34:52

Comments


Member: Mark L.
Location: Seattle
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:36:29

Comments


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:38:16

Comments

Hi -i'm lauren, alcoholic. I remember when i was new in AA someone told me I was a good P.O.E.-which meant nothing until she translated: power of example. I was, in her eyes, carrying the message as a NEWCOMER because i was staying sober and followig the directions i had been learning in AA. Her comment meant a lot to me - i had no idea i could contribute or be an example to anyone in AA at that time because i was so new at it. A lot of time has passed - the twelve step "work" continues by all of us who show up , follow directions and don't drink!


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:39:45

Comments

Hi -i'm lauren, alcoholic. I remember when i was new in AA someone told me I was a good P.O.E.-which meant nothing until she translated: power of example. I was, in her eyes, carrying the message as a NEWCOMER because i was staying sober and followig the directions i had been learning in AA. Her comment meant a lot to me - i had no idea i could contribute or be an example to anyone in AA at that time because i was so new at it. A lot of time has passed - the twelve step "work" continues by all of us who show up , follow directions and don't drink!


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:42:02

Comments

Hi -i'm lauren, alcoholic. I remember when i was new in AA someone told me I was a good P.O.E.-which meant nothing until she translated: power of example. I was, in her eyes, carrying the message as a NEWCOMER because i was staying sober and followig the directions i had been learning in AA. Her comment meant a lot to me - i had no idea i could contribute or be an example to anyone in AA at that time because i was so new at it. A lot of time has passed - the twelve step "work" continues by all of us who show up , follow directions and don't drink!


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 17:54:27

Comments

Hi -i'm lauren, alcoholic. I remember when i was new in AA someone told me I was a good P.O.E.-which meant nothing until she translated: power of example. I was, in her eyes, carrying the message as a NEWCOMER because i was staying sober and followig the directions i had been learning in AA. Her comment meant a lot to me - i had no idea i could contribute or be an example to anyone in AA at that time because i was so new at it. A lot of time has passed - the twelve step "work" continues by all of us who show up , follow directions and don't drink!


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 18:08:45

Comments

Hi -i'm lauren, alcoholic. I remember when i was new in AA someone told me I was a good P.O.E.-which meant nothing until she translated: power of example. I was, in her eyes, carrying the message as a NEWCOMER because i was staying sober and followig the directions i had been learning in AA. Her comment meant a lot to me - i had no idea i could contribute or be an example to anyone in AA at that time because i was so new at it. A lot of time has passed - the twelve step "work" continues by all of us who show up , follow directions and don't drink!


Member: lauren
Location: MD
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 18:38:12

Comments

lauren - alcohoic. the "directions" i thought i just followed were confusing! sorry for the multiple posts.


Member: Linda O
Location: PTB, FL
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 18:48:10

Comments

Hi! I'm Linda and I'm an alcoholic.

Joanne C., your home group dilemma reminded me of a group we have here -- which, fortunately, ISN'T my home group. This group seems always to be in turmoil over something and the turnover rate in members is astounding! They are always bickering among themselves and, as a result, they drive people away in droves. To answer your question, if your home group is in the grips of "old timers" with an "attitude," you might want to find another group. AA group business meetings aren't meant to be exercises in control or knock-down-drag-out fights among members!

Willi, I very much enjoyed your message and look forward to more of your wisdom.

Kerry, WOW! Your message says more about "no coincidences" than a thousand sermons!

JimmyZ, I'll get back to you via e-mail about Bay Pines.

In love and service


Member: Bonnie C - 5/30/98
Location: Seattle
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 19:29:48

Comments

Hi extended family, bonnie/alcoholic here, (((ROOM-HUG))) so awesome to be here with God's wonderful Treasures, you folks ((jimmyz)) thx for the good topic STEP-12 I have never been unsuccessful with 12th step work for I have remained sober and have grown spiritually. If you want to drink, thats your business, unless you hurt someone other than yourself, If you want to be sober that is my business. Others were here when I got here and shared so freely with me. Priorities, lost sleep, time off work, money, sleeping on my couch, a hurting alky has and will take priority over something I'd rather be doing, listening, listening, listening. I try to use balance and carry the message but not the alcoholic. they do sometimes need an extra helping hand at times and I try to use discretion. I have never been able to help a family member or one of my men, they had to get it from outside the relationship and then we could share the fruits. Jesus wouldnt even minister to his own family or town. I think He was a little smarter than me, I used to try. LOL so many ways to 12step, sharing here is one. Dear God please bless all who venture here, love & hugs, bon


Member: Dan H.
Location: Copper River Valley
Date: 03 Nov 1998
Time: 22:05:15

Comments

Hi. I'm Dan H, alcoholic.CAROL S> BUSH ALASKA. I too live in bush Alaska. I am lucky when anyone else shows up on wed. nights. i have come to the conclusion that I have been doin 12 step work just by opening the door and being there. The net helps me a lot but there is no real substitute for a real face to face meeting. Even if you are there by yourself. I am SO happy that you are back and are there for anyone who asks. If you ever want to chat my email is dirtydan@alaska.net


Member: Kate T.
Location: Wisconsin
Date: 04 Nov 1998
Time: 02:02:42

Comments

Hi everyone, Kate here, alcoholic. Sponsorship has taught me a great deal about what recovery from this disease is all about. When I came in to the program I didn't know how to trust a higher power. I learned of God's grace by the patience, love and understanding that was afforded me by my sponsor. When I turned my will and my life over to a higher power, I also turned my thinking over to one who I had learned to trust, and that person kept pointing me to God. My sponsor was able to have faith in me and for me, and could see me in a way which I could not envision for myself. When I began to sponsor others, I found out how well I was practicing the principles outside of meetings. When the phone rings, or someone is at the door I have an opportunity to put myself aside, which is the best way to learn how to let my life drama be small, and my faith large. My sponsees have been my greatest teachers. I have always admired my sponsor for his patience, love, wisdom, and honesty. Practicing step 12 is the discipline that I need to move from admiring those qualities to developing those qualities. Go out of your way today to do something for someone else, and YOU WILL experience the presence of spirit.


Member: Joseph G
Location: San Francisco
Date: 04 Nov 1998
Time: 14:59:38

Comments

Joe here,AAer. What a nurturing remedy hanging out with a 30 day newcomer to get me out of my dilemma. I haven't picked up a drink but I will still get gradification beating myself up. The remedy for sanity is to be in the process of HP's LIGHT. 9 yrs. and really don't want to go back to isolated hell that at times seem less painful, HP thanks for tolerating my funk. I pray that i maybe there to do thy Will. To not hurt myself and especially others.


Member: richard m.
Location: sarasota,fl
Date: 04 Nov 1998
Time: 20:25:10

Comments

hello i am an alcoholic my name is richard m. " haveing had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps...." this was truely a great part of the 12th step...... to be able to assist someone along those lines ..... definitley has to be gods will in there.... no one has any right to tell some one they are not doing it properly...our stories indicate so many of us achieved it ,but almost always with a lot of variation.... we never know what little piece of service work, might turn out to be that persons beginning or even the final part that turns on the light......since we are asking for the knowledge of gods will for us and the power to carry that out... we never charge for 12t step work and giving money in the basket is apart of that to.....we tolerate and love each other , in order to trudge our happy road together.


Member: Stan C.
Location: Belle Fourche, SD
Date: 04 Nov 1998
Time: 22:19:29

Comments

Hi all, Stan, alcoholic and addict. Grateful to be sober. Really grateful. My 12th step work could stand a jumpstart lately. I was warned about the "5-year doldrums," and maybe I've hit them. Life is getting really busy...trying to make up for years that are gone, I guess. I am active in my home group and district, and encourage people from our local treatment center to get a sponsor, but I don't get many calls.

I guess I do 12th step work just by staying sober instead of just dry, to the best of my ability on any given day...For Joanne (?) in Idaho with a troublesome homegroup: I once made the mistake of telling my sponsor I didn't like a certain group/meeting...He had me attend regularly for 90 days, telling me to have the courage to change what I could and the serenity to accept what I couldn't. He didn't see the need to tell me about wisdom at that point...Oldtimers, newcomers, and in-betweeners who have all the answers are everywhere...the key lies (for me, atleast,) in acceptance, and "walking my own walk." Peace to this room and all who enter!

PS..Happy birthday on 11/9 Brian! 'Good to see another post from the hinterlands...


Member: Geno C
Location: NY
Date: 04 Nov 1998
Time: 23:28:37

Comments

Hi All, Geno, alcoholic here, Thanks to all that shared I really needed to hear everyone. To Carol In Bush Ak. I'd like to help anyway I can please e-mail me at geno@pioneeris.net, One more way to share when you need to. Peace, to all Geno


Member: Cliff W
Location: NE Kansas
Date: 05 Nov 1998
Time: 11:34:06

Comments

Hi everyone I will not let the possability of failure get me drunk or make me seek security. If I was supposed to be secure, God would have made me an angel. Our preamble puts it all in perspective. I also like the ABC's. PS I Got sober in SO. Calif. in 1988 in Moreno Valley and I am now in Kansas. Love you all


Member: Tom A.
Location: Arkansas
Date: 05 Nov 1998
Time: 12:57:13

Comments

Carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffers is my understanding of 12 stepping someone and I feel that takes on many and varied forms. I am convinced and thanks to the AA program for teaching me that when nothing else seems to work finding another alcoholic to share our experience, strength, and hope with WORKS! There, "But for the Grace of God, Go I!

My name is Tom A. and I am a grateful sober alcoholic TODAY. We thank all of you for being here on Staying Cybers Discussion Meeting.

God Bless!


Member: Eric S.
Location: Nashville,TN
Date: 06 Nov 1998
Time: 10:05:56

Comments

My name is Eric S. and I'm an alcoholic. Clean house; trust God; WORK WITH OTHERS. Simple, the way I need to do things. Dr Bob also said he did it for 4 reasons 1. Sense of duty 2. It is a pleasure 3. Because in so doing I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me. 4. Because every time I do it I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip. Good topic, thanks.


Member: andy g
Location: austin,tx
Date: 06 Nov 1998
Time: 13:32:20

Comments

May I wish you another day sober.


Member: Dale M
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 00:07:14

Comments

12 stepping is the greatest gift this program has givin me.While doing 12 step work it is keeping me sober,and being sober is the #1 thing in my life today.Helping others runs a very close second.The joy I get out of watching another alcoholics life being touched by god is the highest form of spirituallity I think that there is.


Member: Dale M
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 00:08:56

Comments

12 stepping is the greatest gift this program has givin me.While doing 12 step work it is keeping me sober,and being sober is the #1 thing in my life today.Helping others runs a very close second.The joy I get out of watching another alcoholics life being touched by god is the highest form of spirituallity I think that there is.


Member: Craig K. < craig4d@earthlink.net >
Location:
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 04:24:06

Comments

Craig, a grateful recovering alcoholic.

The 12th step is a very powerful tool in the toolbox Bob and Bill laid at our feet. Used correctly, we maintain our self worth and sobriety. Misused, it can send us back out there.

We can never assume we are responsible for another alcoholic's actions after we have done that 12th step. We have to think and act as tools of our Higher Power. We are responsible for reaching out and passing on the information. We are _not_ responsible for the outcome. Results need to be left up to our higher power.

The results are just one more of those things we need to 'turn over' to our Higher Power. We do the right thing when we reach out to the suffering alcoholic. And, our Higher Power realizes that is enough. That is all He asks of us. In return, He gives us sobriety if we choose to let him worry about the results part.

Thank you for the opportunity to share in this forum. Thank you for sharing your strength, hope and experience. Finally, thank you for 12 stepping me. I needed what you all had to tell me today.


Member: Amy S
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 08:16:21

Comments

I'm an alcoholic, my name is Amy. Great discussion. I was so sorry to hear about "oldtimers" with an attitude. Being an oldtimer myself, (20 yrs), I will admit we can become complacent. That's why I need all the newcomers. They help keep my memory green. By 12 stepping them, I learn and I get to hang on to my sobriety one more day. I also fine that many times a newcomer will look at a step a little different than I had, or will see something I missed. We can always learn something. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Jackie B.
Location: Gaithersburg MD
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 11:49:45

Comments

Jackie B. Gaithersburg, Maryland 7 November, 1998 As this is my first time on this board, I realize that my comments are about to be deleted in just five minutes or so, but I did feel a need to say that 20 years ago today some wonderful ladies took me to a meeting and for the first time I said I was an alcoholic. If I had not been twelfth stepped by them, I would not be here today. I am sure I would have caused my family even more immeasurable grief and then been put in a graveyard somewhere or a mental institution. Thanks you AA for your twelfth step.


Member: Jeanine B
Location: York, Pa
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 20:43:51

Comments

My name is Jeanine and I'm a very grateful recovering alcoholic. To me step 12 covers faith, hope and love (read the three parts over with this in mind). This is nothing new - I heard it in a meeting in the early days of my recovery. It has kept me clean, sober, and active in the fellowship for over 20 years. The most important person, however, is the newest person. I sometime feel sorry that treatment centers have taken over the 12 step work I remember from early recovery. Those drunks went a long way to keep me coming back. I'm delighted to find a cyber meeting. Best wishes to all for a contented and sober day tomorrow.


Member: Tony P
Location: St. John's, NF
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 22:39:04

Comments

Hi, I'm Tony and I'm an Alcoholic.

As a newcomer, I can certainly agree that a friendly greeting at my first few meetings meant the world to me. I had some strange ideas what AA was all about and what the meetings would be like. I was releaved to be reasured from the moment that I walked through the doors that I would be accepted without question. I was riddled with guilt (something I am working through), and hearing the stories of the "oldtimers" made me realize that I wasn't so bad, just that I needed help. The support I received at the first few meetings "normalized" the situation and really help to give the courage to return.

Thanks to all

Tony P


Member: Paul G
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Date: 07 Nov 1998
Time: 23:51:14

Comments

To the newcomer Don't take the elevator take the steps.After you learn the steps live them one day at a time. If you are having problems with resentments read page 552,553 in the 3rd edition of the Big Book. If you have problems with acceptance refer to page 449 and God will give you the answer that you are looking for. There is 3 ingredients be honest,openminded,and willing which you can read about on page 569 ( Spiritual Experiance ) How this program works from my personal experiance is to live the steps one day at a time. The biggest thing I learned is to get into action or pay for my actions. What I mean about action is helping others,going to meetings,and talking to my sponsor on a daily basis. This is the best advise I can give to the Newcomer. GOD BLESS AND GOOD LUCK HAVE A GREAT ONE DAY AT A TIME