Member: John A
Location: Manchester (UK)
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 8:48:45 AM

Comments

Hi All, John Here, A grateful recovering Alcoholic. Question is, How do you deal with others drinking around you that don’t want to recognise or accept you recovery? I.e. drinking brother-in-law’s (Which drink over the top them selves.) That think you’re not a real man/woman because you don’t drink.


Member: AZbill
Location: From AZbill
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 9:26:24 AM

Comments

HI. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. I am powerless over alcohol, mine and everyone else's. This one is easy John. I don't. I have a sister and a brother-in-law that drink over the top. He is a jackass; drunk or sober and she calls me on my birthday if she can remember it. I call her on hers. I have not been in their home in years. If it bothers you and it must because you are asking about it, I would highly suggest Al-Anon.


Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 10:01:19 AM

Comments

I am an alcholic i live alone i dont have a family but few friends who drink and go bar to bar i have learned to avoid them and stay away from bars or whenever these friends wants to go on there binges. I love to attend more and more meeting so I have an excuse to leave that i have a meeting that works for me. thanks toaa and alnon.


Member: AnilG
Location: MtVernon,IL
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 10:01:40 AM

Comments

I am an alcholic i live alone i dont have a family but few friends who drink and go bar to bar i have learned to avoid them and stay away from bars or whenever these friends wants to go on there binges. I love to attend more and more meeting so I have an excuse to leave that i have a meeting that works for me. thanks toaa and alnon.


Member: Mike M
Location: MA USA
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 10:03:34 AM

Comments

I just accept those who do not want me to abstain. Let 'em suffer! Sorry that they lost a drinking buddy but better to lose one in recovery than death. I can't think of a one on the whole planet right now but in my early days in AA as someone with a fatal mental obsession with alcohol, add to that my self-centeredness, I did have concern about what people would think of me not drinking alcohol. Of course I wanted everyone to like me and if someone thought less of me not drinking I could make them like me by drinking! Simple alcoholic logic right? This is a sign of low self esteem and a real opportunity to work the program. The traditions too! Today I may still care what some may think or how they feel but in a very different way. I put down the booze 26 years ago and cannot count the number of situations I have been in around drinking and drinkers. I was at a club last night both as a musician in a band and as a guest at the party. I felt at ease with myself. Someone who has a problem with me not drinking has a problem. I have found "no thank you " to be a nice answer to the question "Would you like a beer?". Of course only practicing the steps will allow me to come up with that sane answer. The rare occasions where my sobriety is challenged are long gone. A throw back to the teen age "I dare ya" mentality I suppose. If it's a booze blow out thing I should recognize that when people are really getting smashed I do feel uncomfortable but it's because I don't like being around drunk people. (Remember reading the "vicarious thrill" thing anywhere?) It would be that me not getting drunk like the rest of the crowd that is out of place and some people do not like getting drunk unless everyone else is getting drunk. Sooner or later we are approached with the question " If you are not getting drunk then what are you doing here?" Good question really. My recovery is something that makes me blend in with the rest of the "normal" (nonalcoholic) crowd. With the exception that I do not drink. I notice others in social settings where alcohol is served and they are not drinking. I do not place them in a special category or feel they are not "real men/women". I have self esteem. Think about it. After all the damage I did due to my drinking and selfishness then I get sober and in recovery through the steps in AA and out of the blue is the thought that I may not be accepted by someone due to my abstinence - Someone may not like me.. Well Boo Hoo! I love my sobriety! Let be said that I spend 99% of my time around non drinking affairs and 100% of my time not drinking. This alcohol topic has got me focused!. I love my freedom and sobriety! Thank you AA.


Member: Peter P
Location: NJ
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 10:08:35 AM

Comments

I do not care about anyone else's drinking except my own...that's my interpretatin of first things first..therefore i'm not drinking one day at a time for me ....also i remember hearing "what anyone thinks of you is none of your business" these things have helped keep me sober ..of course "people ,places and things" good luck


Member: Mike H.
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 11:10:08 AM

Comments

My roommate drinks everyday and almost always to extreme. I just use him as a reason why I do not want to drink anymore. I always tell myself "there but by the Grace of God go I". In other words "do I want that to be me and go thru the misery again"? Not on my worst sober day. Keeping spiritually fit and using the tools AA has given me allows me to do this. Plus remembering where I came from and where I want to go. I got tired of the "in crowd" and do not care if they accept or not because I accept myself for who I am and would not trade that for a drink under any circumstances.


Member: Tom G.
Location: UK
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 11:22:43 AM

Comments

Hi John, I'm Tom alkie from UK. Some would say I avoided being a real man (depending on your interpretation of a real man) by drinking, I certainly couldnt face up to a lot of things that I do today and spent a lot of time running away. FEAR Forget everything and run.Are you prepared to apologise to your brother in law for not drinking. Somehow I dont think so! Read the poem 'IF' You have my total respect John for facing up to your demons. You are a man my son.


Member: Jules H.
Location: The corn state
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 12:25:46 PM

Comments

HEY, Jules here, grateful alcoholic.... that's a good topic since we all have to deal with someone who drinks to excess..Sometimes I deal with it better than others,(when I'm pretty spiritually fit?) but I have to remember that everyone has his, her own road to travel. I can chose whether I'm around drinkers or not, (wedding receptions this summer), but usually not..The longer I stay sober the less I seem to want to be around alcoholics when they're intoxicated and especially when they're obnoxious!! It's a real turn-off! We need to pray for the sick and suffering alcoholic and be an example of what this AA program has done for us.......Thanks for letting me share..Love ya..


Member: Mario
Location: Marfa
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 12:27:56 PM

Comments

Thanks for the topic, John. As AZ Bill noted, some people are just plain rotten. I only learned this weekend what a low life piece of crap Bill Wilson was from the information some good people posted on the Coffee Pot. After doing my own research and re-reading the big book, it is evident that he was nothing but a liar, thief, cheater, drug addict, and total fraud. It appears that his prime motivation for starting AA was so that he could use it as his own private piggy bank (what we today call embezzlement). Anyway, it was a little dishearting to learn that Bill W was a complete fraud and didn't live an honest day in his life. But, just because he couldn't walk the walk doesn't mean that I can't. I don't have to model my life after some scumbag like Wilson. I can live an honest life and be totally clean and sober by being true in all things and by placing my faith completely in God. The bottom line is, my friends, don't let others drag you down, whether they are in AA or not. And, just because Bill Wilson was a lying scumbag, that doesn't mean you can't still use parts of the AA program to get clean and sober. Best wishes to all!


Member: anonymous
Location: by choice
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 12:57:16 PM

Comments

I couldn't give a rats fat ass what Bill did with his time, it makes no difference what so ever to me and my journey. If bill were alive i would have 2 lots of news for him; good and bad. the bad news is i wouldnt have had any answers for him, and the good news is it wouldn't have been any of my bizness. ((to all the people who think that talking about the truth about aa's history means you have to quit; you might want to take a look at that, for me personally when i speak openly about the truth as i know it; i am not trying to manipulate anyone for any reason, as i could care less whether buddy over there quits aa because he found out bill wasnt god. i do it because that is just the way i roll. (so my suggestion to those who percieve it that way is maybe take a look at why your still thinking like that, becuase you alone are responsible for your thinking not others... and Bill W was not responsible for your choice to be or not be in aa because of his shortcomings and defects of character... like call the cops!... bill was an alcoholic for crist sakes! and it shocks people to find out he wasn't perfect... get a grip eh...


Member: M. J. H.
Location: Dayton, Oh
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 1:07:58 PM

Comments

Thanks for your thoughts, Anonymous. The fact is that Bill Wilson was one of the lowest of the low in the human race. What made it worse is that he wrote the principles that he couldn't live up to a single day in his life. That's called being a hypocrite. It reflects on the whole program. If a fraud establishes an organization or program, then guess what? The fraud is all tied in with the organization and program. You're correct that nobody's perfect. But there is a difference between people who are human and make mistakes and people who are completely dishonest and evil. My 7 year old son makes mistakes and that makes him human. The child molester in prison is dishonest and evil. There is a difference. Bill Wilson did not make mistakes. He intentionally committed evil acts. Mario is absolutely correct. Bill Wilson was a complete scumbag. Unless you are totally void of a moral compass, it should make a difference to you that Bill W was a piece of sh*t.


Member: Hot Diggity Dog
Location: Wild Wild West
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 2:46:19 PM

Comments

Hi John, I like to look at things with a practical point of view. Your brother-in-law thinks that you can't be a "real man" if you dont drink. He's an idiot. You have chosen to stay sober. You're sober. People have the right to be idiots, people have the right to be sober. After almost four years without a drink, I rarely even think about it. When offered a beer, I politely refuse and ask for a soda. I don't owe anyone an explanation, if they are so nosy that they need to know why I give my favorite line - "I know when I've had enough." (Four years ago I had enough.) There are some who might tell you that if you are really sober you should be able to sit in a tub full of whiskey and it wont bother you, some will say that you must never come within 500 feet of an alcoholic beverage. People have the right to be obsessive - my advice is to be practical. HDD


Member: Kat
Location: Boston
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 2:56:56 PM

Comments

Someone once told me "those who matter don't care (tgat I'm not drinking)... and those who care don't matter!" I've learned to let go of those who want me to drink to make them feel better. I actually had company - family no less - for dinner last night and didn't serve any alcohol. We had a blast - well at least I did. It was a great dinner and nice company and all sober. They left early - probably to go have a drink - but that was AOK with me!! I got to be alone with my own family and go to bed early. I had friends that stopped inviting me to parties because I don't drink. Once when I fell off the so called wagon... an ex-friend was thrilled and started inviting me again... and once she found out I joined AA, I never heard from her again!! Oh well... the ones who matter are still in my life and it's not that they don't care, it's just that they are happy that I made a choice that makes my life better and glorifies God. Have a beautiful and sober day. I just redecorated my bedroom and it is such a blissful haven that after dinner I just go up there and read and am at peace. It has worked far better than any glass of wine ever did. I am finally sleeping better than I ever have in my life. love & peace, Kat


Member: Jim B
Location: New York
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 3:03:05 PM

Comments

I avoid situations where I know people are drinking. I don't care what my friends think about me not drinking,my friends have to accept it or don't be my friend. I don't like to be around drinking because I slipped before and I know it doesn't take much for me.


Member: Mike M
Location: MA, USA
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 3:12:51 PM

Comments

To all the frightened ones here posting about other peoples shortcomings real or imagined. topic: How do you deal with others drinking around you that don’t want to recognise or accept you recovery? I.e. drinking brother-in-law’s (Which drink over the top them selves.)


Member: lastgasper
Location: surfinthru
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 3:16:17 PM

Comments

are any of you selfcentered holierthanthou bill willson critics remotely interested in the recovery of the newbe still suffering alcoholic? quit blowin smoke up each others ass and get on board...if you aint part of the solution youre part of the problem. you aint got the balls to bully the boys at the bar so you hang out at a site thats fuckin tryin to help folks that are too intimidated to start right out with face to face meetings get a handle on their problems. you were chickinshit candyass punks in the bar and youre virtual assholes here...give the folks who are serious about their recovery a break and get the fuck off the site. virtual powertrippin is jut a punkass way to stroke your egos at the expense of the new guys. jack yourselfs off somewhere else and leave the folks seriously trying alone. try www.lamepunkedoutbitches.com...thats where you belong!


Member: Gayla
Location:
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 3:40:44 PM

Comments

hi ya'll! I'm Gayla, an alcoholic. Interesting topic John! The first thing I do is don't drink over it. I have a friend who knows that I am in recovery, and for the first 2 years or so of my sobriety they would suggest alcohol every time they got a chance. I'd always say 'no, you go ahead' and they would decline. I didn't think much of it but it really must have bothered me a little bit because one night we were at a Mexican restaurant and he said 'boy, a margarita sure sounds good, let's have one' and I agreed. Well he backed the bus up fast, oh no you can't blah blah blah... and never suggested it again. But I was actually going to drink. It made no sense whatsoever but at that moment I didn't care about my desire to stop drinking or why I wanted to be sober! Hang in there...


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 5:44:43 PM

Comments

Hi, Kelly and still an alcoholic, Good question John. I lost my best friend/ drinking buddy over this. It was my choice to let her go. She set me up! My first day out of rehab she had me over for dinner and asked me if I knew how to make a Martini. I said I did not then she took all the booze out and left for 10 minutes to the bathroom. It was uncomfortable for sure. A week later I had a seizure and had stitches in my forehead and a black eye. She asked me what happened and then behind my back went to the AA club and asked around how I really got hurt. Luckily my AA friend that was there when it happened told her. She got mad and left in a huff. When I asked her why on the phone she hung up. I never called back. That is NOT a friend! I'm just glad it was not a family member that you can't avoid. That has to be a lot tougher. Getting sober will not scare away your real friends, but it might make someone that does not want to look at their own drinking problem uncomfortable and try to sabotage you. That was my experience. Thanks- Kelly :)


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 6:50:47 PM

Comments

Hi Double dipping Bill here. Bill Wilson was not a New York stock broker. He was a stock speculator. He used other peoples money. He was a con artist. It has also been rumored that he had an affair with Ruth Hock. His experiments with LSD under the auspices of two Canadian MD's is well documented in AA history. So What? I am sinking in the cesspool of life and a stranger tosses me a life line. Am I going to question his motives? Check his credentials? Get a picture ID? Smell his breath? Make sure his shoes are shined? Before I grab that line? I don't think so. One of the sayings in AA when I first got here was. Judge the message not the messenger. BTW if you really want first hand knowledge, look up Sercy W. You will find him at the Whitehouse group in Dallas. He in in his 90's and the oldest member in AA. Last I heard he was still alive. Love you all Bill


Member: mike
Location: mount forest,ont canada
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 6:51:16 PM

Comments

Hi am Mike, A grateful recovering Alcoholic. I know that I am powerless over alcohol and that is the one that counts. If other people don't accept that is their problem not mine. I have a brother who drinks and I know he can't accept the new me he wishes that he has his drinking brother back but he has lost me in that way of life. He now will not even speak to me or have any thing to do with me without having a couple of drinks in him. So I have decided to let it go as friends. I have a sponsor who has taken his place in my life we both love each other as bro's and for me that was hard to do is to love some one else besides a family member but he your friendship grow to that stage of life. Love to you all


Member: Terry
Location: UK
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 7:17:17 PM

Comments

Hi everyone, Terry here an alcoholic. Coming from an anglo-italian family where drinking is not just a pastime but expected I sympathise. I do not have an answer for you but will tell you I coped. When I finally emerged from the treatment center,my family thought that I would now be able to share wine at dinner,drink champagne at Christams, and rejoin the cadre of silverbacks at the bar at any and all family gatherings.There was nothing I could say that stopped the pressure,nothing I could say to them that would change their drinking habits, but I was always consistant in my resolve not to take the first drink. Those occaisions were hellish but I always had one or two family members who seemed to understand what I was going through and were constant support.The most important thing to me was that after 25 years of chaos I was now starting to see things as a sober man. As I attended meetings and worked through the steps, I understood that the problem wasn't alcohol, and it never was. The problem was me. Over the next eleven years I continued on my path and monumentous things happened, not least my brother in law seeing what I had and wanting some for himself.I would like to say that he is still sober and attending meetings..but he isn't.I guess he didn't want it enough,because you can forget all the bull. That is the bottem line. you gotta want it. terry


Member: TOM M
Location: SC
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 8:05:48 PM

Comments

I still have the bar gang coming around the house inviting me to go drinking. When I decline they ask if I'm still not drinking. I say yes and they all shake their heads. They don't understand why I chose to quit. No matter how I explain it. One of these days I'm sure they'll eithe quit inviting me or quit coming around all together. I hate to see them go, but if they be my friend because I'm sober, then they were never truly friends.


Member: jimmi mac
Location: mo.
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 9:25:56 PM

Comments

Help my brain is trying to kill me,living problems,realtionship problems.It is all just getting to me ,help.


Member: HK
Location:
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 10:02:05 PM

Comments

HELP YOURSELF JIMMIE,YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN HELP YOU


Member: BABE
Location: just full of it like the rest of ya; and glad like so many garbage bags :)
Date: 10/26/2003
Time: 11:08:45 PM

Comments

((Lastgasper)) scroll to the top of the page and read what it says...HINT (TOPIC DISCUSSION) M,J,H)) The entire point of Bill W starting this deal was because he was a druken scumbag... he wanted help and to help other drunken scumbags; whether he succeded or not is kind of irrelavent.. he tried something, and that is better than trying nothing no?>> if he had been crystal white and clean to begin with, then why in the sam hell would he have started this whole thing in the first place ;( <<duh Im with Bill AZ, but not with Billy W (:>)... there was a time when i had lost the choice whether i could pick up a drink or not... and being that i was a few sandwiches short of a picknick; i wasnt exactly in a high and mighty position to be asking the aa program or anyone else for credentials.... that would be like throwing tossing back the life raft because you had a resentment at the company who made it... now how stupid is that?...;) sending peace and good will your way however.... bye now.


Member: Taxi Jim
Location: Watford nr London UK
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 12:23:50 AM

Comments

Hi everyone,being new to puters in recovery (beyond my wildest dreams) i made my first & probably last visit to the coffee pot last night. very disturbed to read all this negative deprogramming stuff about Bill W. and his many imperfections. whilst i dont doubt that most of it is true i totally agree with lastgaspers comment that these people should get the fuck off the sight as this sort of shit will probably put off many people too feared up to go to meetings & many newcomers.I feel gratefull that i have only found these disturbing facts out now i have been sobre for several years and have my own experience of this programme working to reassure me. Anyone who uses this as a reason to walk away from AA is obviously not that serious about their recovery and would probably have found an excuse or reason to leave sooner or later anyway.more than likely they will be newcomers who have not yet truly tasted the gifts recovery brings. I myself needed a few convincers and needed to roll around in the gutter a bit more before i got the message.some of the people who leave may come back as i did with step 1 but some others may not be that fortunate. As secretary of a big book mtg. that as sods law has it, is reading Bills story tommorow night, i am going to be careful what i share about. just because i have found something a bit fishy i dont have to drown everyone else in the stench.I believe that the sicker we are the greater lengths we have to go to for recovery and often the less willing we are to go to them (4 years to do step 4 in my case). Bill Wilson must have been one sick s.o.b as the lengths he had to go to was to start a new organization in order to get any sobriety at all. so he wasnt perfect,apparently father christmas doesent exist either.I pass on my thanks to him and all the other oldies via this site because without them i wouldnt be here or most of my current friends. i'm gonna stay away from that coffee pot most of 'em are sickos,too feared up even to post there names bless em. stick with the winners, at least theres some sanity on this page.


Member: valerie s
Location: virginia
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 12:26:36 AM

Comments

John, you have to care more about your recovery than what other people think about you. We seem to have a need to be understood and the bottom line is a lot of people will never understand. We just don't drink - they eventually quit caring and really don't care as much as we think they do anyway.


Member: Pi Koan
Location: Bushido's Edge
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 5:55:40 AM

Comments

Good morning, my name is Pi and I'm alcoholic. I came from a culture where drinking is a part of sociability, over there in restaurants you could see people drinking and getting rowdy next to your table. I lost two jobs because I wouldn't drink with them (and contribute some drinking) with the older staff people. Some of the most tragic things that happened in my life occurred when I was sober.I lost my best buddies because they feel uncomfortable me being around sober while they get drunk. The people in my family that are alcoholics seems to be getting it good in life while me being sober is going down to the pits. I seem to develop mental illnesses due to my alcohol and drug intake that even though I have been sober for more than a decade now my mental illness and attitudes in life are quite hard to treat and am still dysfunctional. And then there are people here who wants to focused on Bill W.'s history and personality to feel superior that they are better than him- well guess what? isn't this program called Anonymous? Principles before personalities? And don't you think this is the very reason why it works? Despite everything I still won't drink because I didn't like alcohol and to be drunk in the first place. If you get alcohol out of your system completely do you think that you would like the intoxication again and the vicious cycles that you once were trapped? And it's just like nicotine and drugs, when you get off from them in your system you realized that you really don't like them at all and the effects it does to your body so that's why you won't do it anymore. Otherwise no matter what other people say if you haven't realized this you still would drink or smoke or use drugs it's just a matter of time. I know a lot of very miserable people that are in the program of AA (perhaps for the fact that they know they can't have their usual outlet and fun anymore but face life on life's terms), who have been sober for the longest time and a lot of hypocrite moralizers and one uppers who would talk down to new comers and do the usual gang-up hazing SOP. For a lot of times I screwed up in meetings and people give me the run around of innuendos of hard time and embarassments. For a lot of people their quality of life have improve immensely as the more they become sober but for me it's more like a down trendline or stagnancy. And believe me a lot of them are chief moralizers (comparing themselves to the weakest link and stuff like that). I've seen a lot of stuff in the program of AA that could be seen as a hoax if it should be really investigated logically and scientifically. But does all these reasons make me drink, no, because I know it was not alcohol that was the problem or the solution in the first place, it was life and I don't want to hide anymore behind mood altering chemicals and behaviors, but to be a man enough to suffer. That's the only way I could be acceptable to myself.


Member: mav
Location: hmmmm....
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 8:28:04 AM

Comments

Well John A. from Manchester(NOT New Hampshire USA-Thank God!), I've a question for you as well? How do they deal with your involvement in AA. You see dear man, it's two-way street. I for one do not appreciate anybody close to me being very involved in AA and I understand it perfectly well. As far as not drinking that's another story entirely, simply don't do it in any circumstance-period. AA involvement is far more insidious and dangerous and involves much more than being "sober." I can fully understand another person's concern if they don't approve of my "new addiction" of meetings and listening to the people there about every little aspect of life from the narrow viewpoint of alcohol(ism). It matters not whether they understand me or not really as I am misunderstood by both "sides" of the warring factions and yet I live an extremely happy, full life because I love God and know who "butters my bread," if you will. Plus it's a "To thine own self be true" deal as well and everything else is mute if I'm following my own given road and not one others have laid out for me. Then the understanding rarely comes and while I understand it's sometimes hard to deal with since I'm constantly misunderstood and portrayed as anything but what and who I truly am, as this site so clearly proves to me, that I have no expectation of ever being understood by anyone and just take it as great gift when those rare moments come along when someone does. Funny thing is, no "alcoholic" has ever understood me at all, while some beautiful "normies" in my life have been gifted with insight far greater than I ever would have imagined if I believed the ridiculous rhetoric in AA that only another alkie can understand us. Very shallow and narrow-minded, not to mention incorrect! God Bless you on your journey my friend, whatever it holds in store for you....


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg Man Canada
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 8:47:23 AM

Comments

Ron L. alcoholic. One of the biggest struggles that Bill W. had was trying to free himself of the title of A.A. co-founder which would allow him to explore his other interests, which were many all leading to a higher state of humanity. So he did LSD. but he did it in the 1950's Canada never banned LSD until 1963. During the flower-child hippe era of the late 1960's it was manufactured illegally and was peddled as a steet drug. By 1959 Bill W. had personally withdrawn from the LSD experiment He did so gracefully Bill W. and Dr. Jack had had some correspondence on the subject of Bill's responsibility as a living founder, and these words from Dr.Jack doubtless helped to assure Bill that his decision had been right. You cannot escape being Bill.W'- nor would you really, even though at times you will rebel. The best bets are made with all possible information in hand and considered. I am reminded of a poem written by the mother of a small child in which she says." I am tied down" and goes on to list the ways she is captive, ending with the phrase " thank God I am tied down" To few men has it ever been given to be the " father image " in so constructive a way to so many: fewer have kept their stability and humility, and for this you are greatly honored. But you are human and you still carry the scars of alcoholism and need as I do to live A.A. The greatest danger that I sense to the fellowship is that you might lose A.A. as it applies to you."


Member: me
Location: ship #3
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 9:33:50 AM

Comments

RonL man I hat to inform you of this obvious fact, but just because is "legal" governmentally spaeking, does NOT make it neither moral or right. Abortion, Euthanasia, Death Penalty, etc. are just a few examples, plus pot is illegal and alsohol is legal, so don't smoke a little wacky but drink all you want because it's legal? Great idea as all alkies should drink sincer it's legal according to the (il)logic you are employing....See what I mean?


Member: me
Location: ship #3
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 9:33:55 AM

Comments

RonL man I hat to inform you of this obvious fact, but just because is "legal" governmentally spaeking, does NOT make it neither moral or right. Abortion, Euthanasia, Death Penalty, etc. are just a few examples, plus pot is illegal and alsohol is legal, so don't smoke a little wacky but drink all you want because it's legal? Great idea as all alkies should drink sincer it's legal according to the (il)logic you are employing....See what I mean?


Member: SuzyQ
Location: Ct.
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 9:39:36 AM

Comments

I can fully understand your dilemma, John. What has worked well for me in these situations is to simply explain to my family and/or friends that I am allergic to alcohol. While discussing alcoholism with an active drinker who has no desire to stop often results in them perceiving me as a threat, or as judging them, people understand that if someone is allergic to a food or a substance, then we can't use it. Period. End of discussion. they then know that to encourage me to drink would be bad for my health(which it certainly is) I don't talk to them about addiction, or compulsion, or an inability to control my drinking. They don't want to know. I shall stand by the door and wait for those who seek it. " I had rather be a door-keeper." (Sam Shoemaker)


Member: amy p
Location: al.
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 10:03:32 AM

Comments

sober 5 years by the grace of God(or whatever one choses to call it)I have been in and out of these meetings for 20 years.I started at 15 years old with the hopes that I would not end up like the rest of my family.To make a long story short it took a lot of soul serching and patience to come to the realization that peoples opinions are only just that - opinions.Take what you can use and leave the rest.I have not been to a meeting in years but they were helpfull when I needed it the most.Having been raped 7 times I felt a bit uncomfortable sitting in a room of potential rapists,molesters and the ones I call buzards(people who want to fix the new commer or avoid their own falts by focusing on mine)I am glad this site is available.Thank you.


Member: Jesse J
Location: Dallas
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 10:24:50 AM

Comments

Good morning, all. The information here and on the Coffee Pot is quite imformative about Mr. Bill Wilson. I think it's important that we all know the truth about Bill W, especially newcomers. If we tell a newcomer that AA is a "rigorously honest program" and he/she later finds out that Bill Wilson was completely dishonest in all his affairs, they will feel that AA lied to them from the start and drop the program faster than a hot potato. Let them know that Bill Wilson was a complete fraud and never lived a clean and sober or honest day in his life. But, then tell them that despite that, that you have found a way to complete sobriety and share that with them. A little honesty goes a long way. Just because honesty wasn't in Bill W's vocabulary doesn't mean it can't be the arrow of your life. - - - Thanks AZ Bill for your conformation that Bill Wilson was a complete failure and liar. Your honesty does mean alot. I'm from Dallas and I wanted to let you know that Sercy passed away a couple of weeks ago. I believe his obituary stated that he was 93 years old at the time of his death. Peace and love to all.


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 10:41:40 AM

Comments

Mav, Whats your point? You lost me in all the bs. What of the topic? Thanks for all the great posts- Pi Koan, Babe, AZbill, etc. Really made me think! TOM M, your doing great and no its not easy to lose your friends. Going to any lengths to stay sober is not easy but necessary if we want it bad enough. I don't hang around with people that drink so I have lost friends in AA that go back out too. That's hard but it is my choice for my early sobriety. In a few years it might change... Take Care. Kelly :)


Member: Donna B
Location: LA
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:39:55 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Donna and I'm six days into recovery. I know for me I have to stay away from the old playmates and playgrounds. It took me 13 yrs to get back here. As for Bill W...does it really matter what he was or wasnt or why he did what he did? All I know is that this program does work if you work it. Motives of others isn't important to me. Not drinking/using is all that matters and this program has proven itself to work for many years.


Member: Tim H.
Location: Japan
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 12:22:31 PM

Comments

I was sober two and a half years, and then I decided I needed some friendly companionship on a New Year's Eve with a couple of my old drinking buddies. I didn't drink that night, but four days later I started drinking and didn't get sober again for almost three months. Seven months sober now and still kicking myself for my stupidity. It's just not worth it to stay around people who live to drink. I've got to keep my distance. I hope you can, too.


Member: Nate W
Location: WA
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 12:32:42 PM

Comments

I know how you feel, I have friends that drink and I don't want to, so I try to spend the time on the nights that those friends go out and party to go and spend time with people that don't drink. That seems to work for me, and I feel great the next day, especially not having a hangover. It is hard and frustrating to not go, but I know that I don't want that to be apart of my life.


Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West FL
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 1:52:45 PM

Comments

Hi Family Charlie Darling a very Grateful recovering ALCHOLIC. This past weekend being that I live in Key West, and Fantasy Fest and there are 250 bars in this town, also alot of T shirt stores were there selling beer at the doorways. I decided that I was not going to go down to the center, and see all the craziness that was going on with all the drinking, as I know I did not need it. I just thank my HP that I was able to make the choice that I did, for who knows if I would have made it back that night or morning or if I would make it back at all. I went to extra meetings spoke with fellow members on the phone, and kept close here at home. Today I can say that I stayed sober, and did not have to be where alot of others were. I did watch on the live cams, and I saw enough. I don't have use for Alchol any more, and for that I am very Grateful Thank you all fro being here for all of us. Peace and Love, Charlie kwduke_1999@yahoo.com


Member: Les dos 6/20/87
Location: San Diego atwoodles@aol.com
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 2:24:36 PM

Comments

When friends or relatives cannot accept the fact that I no longer drink, I simply avoid them if/when they become irritating. As to what they think; I've learned from the Program of AA that I've no real control over what others think or do and if they do not respond to reason or my wishes concerning their attitude toward me then I tell them, in all honesty, that, until they change, in that area, our relationship is over. If it does no harm to me or others I don't really care what anyone thinks or does, particularly what they might think of me. With self esteem which comes from doing estimable things, another thing which I learned from practicing the Principles learned from taking the Steps of AA, all that is important to me is what I think of others. I now know who and what I am and what place I have in God's universe, and I try to remember that opinions are like anuses, almost every one has one.


Member: Bob W.
Location: Grimsby (UK)
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 2:51:39 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Bob - an alcoholic. I'm pretty new to this (16 weeks sober) but I've found all my freinds to be v. supportive.I still occasionally go to the pub with freinds and they respect the fact that I stick to soft drinks. At work if I'm asked if I'm going for a drink at the end of a shift I'll say O.K. but only for a cola.I know that I'm lucky having freinds and colleagues who are supportive, but being honest with people about my illness seems to work for me. Stay Sober.


Member: Rarely
Location:
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 3:00:38 PM

Comments

Im so grateful that were off the topic about smoking, Glad to see that its kick Bill W. week seing how he's dead and gone, we can take advantage of the fact he's not here to defend himself. maybe one of these days we can really go back in time and kick the can about....GOD IS DEAD haven't heard that one for about 30 years. lets kick any topic around except recovery in the A.A. program, after all not to many can post on that subject without putting down someone or some thing.


Member: Cec H
Location: Rivercity
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 3:19:09 PM

Comments

Hi all Cec H alkie here. Well John A, I am a bit of a prick when it comes to people drinking around me that cann't handle it or drink like I did. I tell them Donn't around me. Got a brother in law who won't speak to me cause I called the cops on him. Donn't need his abuse nor will I do the Time to put him out of the house. That's what the Police are for. My Mother in law got the message loud and clear keep your 40 pounder outside and donn't get abusive if you come to visit. When I go there I stay in a motel or in my camper. As for not being a Man. Shit, I got nothing to prove to anyone let alone myself. I'll leave the macho shit to the 18 yr old who's still trying to impress the world.


Member: chain chain chain
Location: day day day
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 3:42:43 PM

Comments

chain chain chain and tay tay tay pay way and tie tie tie and pay pay pay say day a pay way of why..


Member: janet m.
Location: miami
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 7:52:30 PM

Comments

The power of the 12 steps is to not let worrying about others' opinions get to you. It's a hard order...but, I think that is fundamental is this process for many. My problem is, I have no problem being around 'pressure drinkers' since I probably was one at my "prime". I feel quilty that because I can't handle alcohol others feel constrained around me.


Member: Michelle A
Location:
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 9:47:07 PM

Comments

hi my name is michelle and i have been in recovery for three months and this last friday i got raped then relapsed please help me


Member: All ready
Location: shared
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 10:01:29 PM

Comments

Michelle...email me and we'll talk. I've been there. sebenstein@snet.net


Member: Donna
Location:
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 10:30:40 PM

Comments

Michelle, email me if you would like to talk. memre1016@yahoo.com


Member: Shelia
Location:
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:04:28 PM

Comments

Michelle,was it by someone who is also in recovery.God bless you Michelle.


Member: AA Nazi
Location: AA Meeting
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:21:07 PM

Comments

Did any one of you ever hear that GOSSIP is a character defect? use your 12 Steps & get over it. Who of any of you was there on a daily basis with Bill W ? Your own ES&H is ALL that gets shared at any AA mtg - not opinions - not hearsay - not GOSSIP. got it? or is that milk really beer?


Member: Love and Peace
Location: United States
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:27:43 PM

Comments

God bless you, Michelle. My prayers are with you. You are not alone.


Member: Henry M
Location: Maine
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:28:10 PM

Comments

The discussions about Bill Wilson on this site this week are a good reminder where we should place our trust and faith. Satan is the great deceiver. The evil one uses flawed people and places them in apparent leadership positions to accomplish his satanic purposes. By way of example, look at Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, Joseph Stalin, Charles Manson, etc. Bill Wilson is just another example. Place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and you will never be let down. May the revalations about Bill Wilson be a lesson to us all.


Member: The rat and his fat ass.....
Location:
Date: 10/27/2003
Time: 11:37:50 PM

Comments

LEAVE MY FAT ASS OUT OF IT! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT MY ASS IS AN OUTSIDE ISSUE?


Member: frankie
Location: chicago
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 12:04:43 AM

Comments

im a scumbag con artist also, but im sober and aa works, and im grateful for bill w


Member: Kara O.
Location: CA
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 12:11:03 AM

Comments

Hello John and all other participants. Great topic. As a recovering alcoholic, my only concern is my sobriety and carrying the message to those who want what we have. What anyone else does, is none of my business. Choosing healthy outside activities is a priority for my family and I. I work in the recovery field, am in service, raise two teenagers and go to college. Setting an examples for others and seeing the smiling faces of those around me is reward enough for me. I live the program today because it saved my life after 27 years of slowly not succeeding in alcoholic suicide. I don't spend time wondering what others (drinkers) should be doing. It's none of my business, not my responsibility and it doesn't matter. I am responsible for my own happiness and working the program works for me.


Member: Pi "TheProphet" Koan
Location: Bushido's Edge
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 5:30:20 AM

Comments

Michelle I'm sorry for what happened to you my dear. I hope you can get all the help that you can get, especially in the justice department. Henry M. from Maine, I could send you a full manuscript of my essay explaining why Jesus Christ is the author of Evil himself. Just ask the question why didn't he appear in his ressurrected body to the Scribes, Pharisees, and the whole Jewish congregation who were responsible for his death? -In that way if he did he could have convinced and converted the Jews right away just like what he did with his unbelieving disciples (regarding his ressurrrection)? -and saved them from the persecution from the Romans and the whole Christian Europe (and the Americas) where the Jews found themselves to be exiles. Do you think that if he showed his ressurrection to those High Priests and those people who stoned him at their synagogues and shouted for his crucixion, they won't be convinced when they see his body that can pass through walls and fly and disappear and couldn't be dead anymore? I know a lot of you AA's would say that this shouldn't be discussed here but this is just a perfect proof that even the Highest of what man has upheld through the ages- Religion is actually a great timeless hoax and could easily be seen if people are objective about it, but since people cannot be objective but subjective about what they believe and what they have been brainwashed and what they have belonged to, then it becomes very dangerous since this is the leading cause of major bloody wars and oppressions in history- about LIES. We have a duty and that duty is that to see the enemy as it is, this is the only way that the future would be redeemed by the new generation.


Member: thomas b
Location:
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 5:34:06 AM

Comments

easy doe's it


Member: Joe S
Location: Texas
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 6:47:39 AM

Comments

When I was faced with this very situation during first year of sobriety, I took it too my sponsor in hopes of finding a solution. His suggestion to not go head long into this problem but rather take 12 steps around it. Fist I admitted my powerlessness over alcohol and how my life had become unmanageable ( not my family members life) and next I had experienced being restored to sanity with my drinking then why not let God restore me (not family member) to sanity in this situation. Once again I made the decision to turn my (not family member) will and life over to the care of God. Then took an inventory of my defects of character (not family members) and discussed them with my sponsor. I became ready for God to remove my defects (not family members) and humbly asked him to do so. I then made a list of the harm I had done in this situation (not family members harm) and became willing to make amends. I continue to take my inventory daily ( not family members) and use prayer and meditation on such matters. I did not say a word about this to my family member and a year later the unexpected results happened. This family member called me and told me he had quit drinking and has remained sober ever since. That was over 15 yrs ago and we both live sober, happy lives today. Am greatful for a saponsor who has shown me how to apply these steps in all our affairs. Page 88 Line 8 of the big book. Thanks for allowing me to share.


Member: Bob
Location: uk
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 7:55:40 AM

Comments

Hi Bob here, recovering alcoholic. Good topic John. Some guy at a meeting I went to last night was telling about how he handled a camping trip with two drunken 'friends'. Maybe it makes him feel 'macho' to get himelf in situations like that but I'd rather not. I don't have a problem with social drinking - it never enters my head to take alcohol. However you got to avoid problems - Like 'if I was soaked in gas would I stand by an open fire?' So any friend who offers me a drink isn't a friend and anyone who thinks I'm a wimp hasn't fought the battles I fought. Getting sobriety was THE hardest thing I ever did and if anyone thinks they can shame me into drinking then they have shit for brains. Drinking took me to hell and I've no mind to buy a ticket back. If you want to dodge and weave tell them you have a bad liver ... it's probably true, but the best thing for me is to avoid the people, places and things associated with that part of my life. Drunks are boring farts anyway, and bars stink of second hand tobacco and piss. Anyway I didn't have a drink today and I don't plan having one tomorrow. One day at a time..... just one day at a time .. and it's funny how each month becomes better than the last.


Member: PappyPaw B.
Location: Southern Central MI
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 9:06:32 AM

Comments

I to was a cheat and a fraud, liar and sinner of first class. They sent me to AA for help and I got the help I needed. Seems Bill Wilson was at the right place for his problems. Dr. Bob sought out Bill W. and from this seed we are the AA of today. We need to look at the 12 traditions before we go on with this "Kill Bill" controversy. I am a grateful recovering alcoholic who found the spirit of God through the 12 steps and the fellowship of AA. Bill W. was a part of that search and discovery. God gave Bill the same choices He gave me. How we apply this gift to our life is our "Spiritual Accounting" with God. John, I don't go to the whorehouse for a hair cut and I do not go to taverns or where they are drinking without just cause. I quit drinking not them so I move away from the situation that bothers me or threatens my soberity. I am still the same person who limped into AA "Spiritually Bankrupt" but I am sober today because of God and his blessing so I have a choice, I choose to give myself another day of soberity and strive to get myself on toward being like my Master would have me be. Thankyou all for such a good share of spirits. PappyPaw


Member: Interesting,the results will surprise if you are rigoursly honest
Location:
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 9:57:48 AM

Comments

Cult Questionnaire 1) Does your group claim to be the only "Way"? YES NO 2) Are you told there is no alternative? YES NO 3) Are you told leaving means certain degeneration, death or relapse? YES NO 4) Do members see themselves as different from society, "special", "chosen" "pioneers" or on a "mission"? YES NO 5) Do you feel strong pressure to conform? YES NO 6) Do dissenters face rebuke or isolation? YES NO 7) Are there answers, clichés, quotes & slogans for everything? YES NO 8) Do you have a social life outside the group? YES NO 9) Do you spend huge amounts of time in group activities ? YES NO 10) Are you expected to make regular confessions of private issues? YES NO 11) Do you ask the group for advice on life decisions before acting? YES NO 12) Are there many "clones" in the group? YES NO 13) Do you have a personal mentor, sponsor or inspector? YES NO 14) Does the group claim to be ultra democratic? YES NO 15) Are there favorites, cliques and secret circles, hidden hierarchies? YES NO 16) Are there rituals, initiations, proclamations, charters, ceremonies? YES NO 17) Does the group offer certainty over uncertainty; absolute truths, black and white answers in the name of religion or science? YES NO 18) Is a living or dead leader venerated? YES NO 19) Do leaders flatter, cajole and rebuke to manipulate members for control, power, money and/or sex? YES NO 20) Has the leader ever been the member of another political, social or religious sect? YES NO 21) Are other groups ridiculed or lied about? YES NO TOTAL YES NO NOTE ON QUESTIONNAIRE A cult does not have to have all of the characteristics in the table or in the description alongside. However, if you have answered Yes to more than 30% of these questions, there is a very good chance that you are in a cult which can seriously damage your life and health.


Member: David H
Location: Nashville TN
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 11:37:54 AM

Comments

David H, alcoholic. This one is easy. Its about boundarys and changing playmates. I simpley dont surround myself with people who drink over the top. I have friends that drink but not like I used too. I had an old drinking buddy come to my house a few years ago with drink in hand and very tippsy. When I told him I didnt drink anymore, he cut a trail off the property and i never heard from him again. The main thing is my sobriety has to come first always and I simpley must do the things to keep me sober.


Member: AM
Location: Portland, OR
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 1:47:56 PM

Comments

Hi, AM here, a grateful recovering alcoholic. I know it's probably really common for a lot of people, but it amazes me that there are those who would "not accept" one's sobriety. What the hell? If I choose not to drink, it's no one's business, and that people would have a negative reaction to sobriety is a clear sign that they are threatened by it, most probably because they are alcoholics themselves and know it deep down. I guess I've been lucky. I have the total, 100 percent support of my family and friends, the people who matter. If anything, I've inspired them to drink less themselves. I've encountered a few people who, when they discover I'm in recovery, seem in awe and ask me a barrage of tenantive questions. If I were to encounter someone who refuses to acknowledge that I don't drink, I would avoid that person. If he/she doesn't get it, who gives a shit? If I start to worry about it and begin questioning my own motives, I would be heading toward dangerous territory. So in sum, it's life that some people are cooler and more enlightened than others. There are definitely cretins out there. But now matter if those people are your relatives or acquaintances, you can't let them negatively impact your sobriety. If they start to, get the heck outta there! We are the ones who will suffer and ruin our own lives if we don't.


Member: ed g
Location: nashville, tn
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 3:10:57 PM

Comments

hi everybody. i'm an alcholic and addict. someone stated to me once that if i keep going into the barber shop i will get a haircut. since i'm fresh in recovery again, i realize that i cannot be in the company of someone who is drinking or drugging. my disease is cunning baffling and powerful. with my sick thinking, i will think i'm cured again and fall right down the 12 Steps. the only suggestion i have is to maintain STOP(sobriety is today's only priority).


Member: ed g
Location: nashville, tn
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 4:30:10 PM

Comments

hi everybody. i'm an alcholic and addict. someone stated to me once that if i keep going into the barber shop i will get a haircut. since i'm fresh in recovery again, i realize that i cannot be in the company of someone who is drinking or drugging. my disease is cunning baffling and powerful. with my sick thinking, i will think i'm cured again and fall right down the 12 Steps. the only suggestion i have is to maintain STOP(sobriety is today's only priority).


Member: David H
Location: Nasville
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 5:28:34 PM

Comments

david alcoholic, I dont usually double dip but another analogy would be if I had someone around me who wanted me to stick my hand in a cage full of angry rattle snakes and told me I wasnt a real man if I didnt do it. I would have to be pretty insane to take this guy seriously.


Member: Tod H.
Location:
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 7:34:41 PM

Comments

I believe it is important to surround ourselfs with people who care about us. True friends, and hopefully family should understand what alcohol has done to us and should respect our descion not to drink.


Member: Barbie
Location: AZ
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 7:36:03 PM

Comments

AA has taught me how to live life sober. I am grateful for Bill W. and everyone else that has ever participated in this program of recovery. Who am I to judge another person....(I practice this one regularly) the only thing I know is how to stay sober and how to use the tools to live happy, joyous, and free......and I do! Maybe I'm just lucky. I choose to surround myself by people who accept my sobriety. I don't broadcast it to all, but everyone knows that I don't drink.


Member: barbara
Location: uk
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 7:50:59 PM

Comments

i am a very grateful alcoholic. thanks to AA I have been sober for 2 years and never been happier. I have a son who is still suffering this dreadful illness, but i am powerless over that one all i can do is stay sober a day at a time. if it was not for Bill W I would not be here today.


Member: Terry B.
Location: B.C.
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 8:28:53 PM

Comments


Member: Terry B.
Location: B.C.
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 8:43:58 PM

Comments

Wow, I've never been on line at a meeting. I've been sober sixteen years and am still potentially a lying cheat. Most days I don't act out on it but I'm quick to identify myself as a pirate by nature. Also you can take what I say as a grain of salt on popcorn. I "know" that I haven't been jailed for sixteen years. When someone is going on how spiritual they are at a meeting I need not draw any conclusion. I just go like "yeah, there is a little info that might work for me. It worked for "another" pirate." I stopped drinking because I could no longer stand ME. I hated what I did and how I felt. Today it ain't that bad most times so there must have been some improvement IN SPITE of me. Most of my friends seem to think I'm okay. I can tell. Most of them know I don't drink and show no need to. I am a musician also so I am payed to have fun. So I do. There is no booze needed. I'm not sober for them. I am sober for me. I came from the land of the walking dead and now I live. God bless you all.


Member: DUDLEY D.
Location: FLORIDA WHEN IM NOT ON THE ROAD
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 8:45:23 PM

Comments

HELLO IM AN ALCOHOLIC NAMED DUDLEY. HELLO JOHN AND THE REST OF YOU THAT ARE STICKING TO THE TOPIC THAT STARTED THIS MEETING. JOHN ALL I CAN DO IS SHARE MY EXPERIENCE STRENGTH AND HOPE AS THE WAY THAT I WAS TAUGHT IN THE BEGINNING.I STILL HAVE FREINDS THAT DRINK BUT DO THEY DRINK THE WAY I DID? I DONT KNOW. ALL I KNOW FOR SURE IS THAT WHEN WE ALL USED TO DRINK TOGETHER THEN WAKE UP NEXT MORN WITH A HEADACHE IT WAS ME THAT WAS LOOKING FOR THE NEXT FIX AND I COULDNT UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY OFFER FOR THE CURE WHICH I ALWAYS THOUGHT WAS A BIT OF THE HAIR OF THE DOG THAT BIT YOU, IN OTHER WORDS ANOTHER BEER OR SHOT OF WHISKEY. TODAY WHEN I GO AROUND THESE FREINDS OF MINE THAT ARE STILL DRINKING I CAN STAND BY THEM AND THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHY I DONT DRINK TODAY BECAUSE THEY SEEN ME AT MY WORST AND THEY DONT WANT ME TO GO BACK THERE EITHER. I HAD A BROTHER-IN-LAW THAT SOUNDS REAL SIMILAR TO THE ONE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HE IS NO LONGER A MEMBER OF MY FAMILY. I DIDNT GO AROUND PEOPLE THAT DRANK FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS AFTER I GOT SOBER AND IT WAS FOUR YEARS BEFORE I STARTED GOING AROUND THE FREINDS I HAD WHEN I WAS DRINKING. TODAY I AM MORE THAN SEVEN YEARS SOBER BUT I ONLY HAVE TODAY. I ALSO LEARNED VERY EARLY IN SOBREITY THAT AS LONG AS I AM SPIRITUALLY FIT I CAN GO ANYWHERE AND BE AROUND ANYONE THAT I PLEASE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS TRUE. I AM NOT A "GOD" BUT I DO HAVE A CONCIOUS CONTACT WITH A HIGHER POWER AND AS LONG AS I HAVE THAT THEN I CAN REMAIN SOBER. SORRY BOUT CARRYING ON FOR SO LONG SO GOOD LUCK JOHN AND MAY THE MIRACLE HAPPEN. ALSO SAY A PRAYER FOR YOUR BROTHER-IN-LAW, IF NOT FOR HIM THEN FOR YOURSELF THAT GOD WILL GIVE YOU THE ANSWER. THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE


Member: Barb Mc
Location: PA
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 9:16:26 PM

Comments

When I first came into AA I was afraid that I would be "struck drunk" if I was around anyone that was drinking. There are many of my family that can have one drink and not finish that one. Never could understand that. I didn't have very many friends by the time I crashed so I really didn't have to worry about them. My sponsor explained to me that others in my family didn't have a problem with alcohol, I did. At this point in my soberity I don't worry about what anyone thinks of me. As my sponsor explained to me all those 24's ago what others think of me isn't important. What I think of me is. Those that used me as a measuring stick for their own drinking (she drinks more than me) don't come around any more. And I don't miss them. My family knows how I was and what happened and are behind my recovery 100%. It has been a long time since my Mother asked me if I was over the hump and could quit going to meetings now. Most of my friends, and some of my family, are in the program. It just seems to happen. Hang in there. One more quote from one of my sponsors that had 45 years sober when he died, "Don't put anyone in AA on a pedestal. They are alcoholics just like you and can fall at any time." I walk with my God and He hasn't let me down. And I don't think he will. Hugs


Member: Laura
Location: VA
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 10:31:29 PM

Comments

Taking Bill Wilson's inventory ain't gonna do me any good because it's like looking in the mirror! And I hate taking mine if I'm anything approaching rigorously honest. I completely fucking hate it! I have to think about all I did when I was drinking (and all that I continue to do). I lied to everyone, I was physically violent, I was in jail, I did drugs that threatedned my life, like shooting cocaine and heroin, that I would not have had access to or been introduced to had I not been in bars, I stole from friends and family, I wrecked cars, I was not a good mom by any standards and probably should have been locked up for that, I had indiscriminate sex I got no pleasure out of, I showed up late and did absolutely horrible work at jobs, I caused myself to get too thin and depressed and wrote off physical symptoms, like seizures, as other things, I ruined friendships and blamed it on my friends, I wasted money, I did not pay my bills, I made a complete idiot out of myself, ad nauseum. Not much of this behavior persists if I am not drinking. I am still sometimes devious, I often lie by omission, am lazy...but it's a lot easier to get through life without alcohol overall. I can't stand some people I meet in AA -- just because they are in a meeting doesn't mean you can trust them at all, and I have to stay away from people who give me the creeps just like I would if I was in my favorite bar. And they usually go away after a while anyway. Good luck, Michelle.


Member: Dale W
Location: W.Y.
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 11:32:32 PM

Comments

Whether the family goes on spiritual basis or not, we must! It's not what you think of me that counts, It's what I think of you! Good topic John. Thanks


Member: JOE F.
Location: lincoln NE
Date: 10/28/2003
Time: 11:33:42 PM

Comments

Hello everyone Joe Alcoholic. Ihave many family member\friends that drink way to much. I am around them the least possible amount when they are drinking. I dont listen to their day after "drunkalogues".It gets me too wound up. It is a boundary I have set with them. In the early part of my sobriety I had friend\family members offer me drinks,it was tough they thought because ihad treatment that I was O.K. HA. Ihad to explain it to them.As for the Bill W. issue I was always told that it is the message not the messenger. If i want to sit in ameeting and pick everyone apart I won't stay sober. I'm going for another 24 thanks for having me.


Member: Dave M
Location: Lansing, Il
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 12:40:13 AM

Comments

John,pray for those who don't understand. That's the only thing we can do,anything less than that will show no results.Don't expect immediate results, or any for that matter. What prayer will do is show you some acceptance. So,pray for those people on a daily basis for atleast two weeks,and then let it go.You'll be a better person for doing so.GOD bless you and keep comming back.


Member: chris h.
Location:
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 2:17:29 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Chris and I asked the same question in treatment. I just left it 2 months ago and have 127 days clean & sober now. I was told we don't have to explain or apolagize for our sobriety. Remember, you are CHOOSING not to drink instead of saying you can't drink. If you want to get in his face, tell him you think getting loaded to deal with life is a sign of weakness. I have never heard of negative things about Bill W. before, but the principles of AA work, so I really don't care if even the boogeyman was a founder.


Member: Jay K.
Location:
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 6:53:29 AM

Comments

As an alcoholic on his third day sober again. I would like to point out that no one ever poured a drink down my throat. Only I am responsible for that act. The fact is that while I socialize with other drinkers I haven't drank with them in at least 5 years. Their drinking has never been the trigger point for me. In a lot of ways I wish they were. That would make my job a lot easier. My trigger point is that I hold myself to a higher standard than I expect from anyone else. And when I fail to meet that standard I punish myself by becoming that which I see myself as. It is kind of a self fulling phrophecy. My stratagies to avoid the temptation or negative conversations around drinkers are: Get your own drinks - it avoids questions. Drive - no one seems to question the one who handles the transportation. For the truly obnoxious lie - I am on a medication that damn near killed me when I drank last time I was on it. They have worked for me for 5+ years. It is a shame my internal task master isn't as easily placated


Member: Donnie M. (D.O.S. 3-1-99)
Location: Short Gap, WV
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 8:16:18 AM

Comments

Hi all Donnie here and I am an alcoholic. This is a great topic. When I firsted started in recovery I was told to stay away for my old drinking companions, but the job I had at the time was all but of a couple who drank daily. I was placed in an awkward place, but I stuck to my guns and attended way moer than ninty meetings in ninty days. This helped me get to make new and for the first time in my life real friends. I look at what happened as Gods will because with almost four months sober the warehouse that I was working in was put on the closure list, so I found myself looking for a new job. I had three companies call me for interviews and found it quite easy to leave the old behind and move on to the new. This started a search for me that has led me to find a job that I truly love and even found the guts to return to college at the age of thirty three. I have turned away many oppertunities to join with the old, but as the big book tells us "we will find ourselves recoiling from the drink like if it were a hot flame" I must admit this did not happen quickly, but it has happened. I have been put in the position to have to tell family members to stay away if they choose to use. I have found that my AA family,God, my wife and son are all the people I need in my life. I have been granted this gift of soberity for another day and if God see fit I will experiance it again and again for many days to come. Thanks for letting me share and God bless all.


Member: Marty G.
Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 9:12:30 AM

Comments

I need to know what to do about a sponsor, who had 13 years sobriety, @ went out drinking again, I know to pray for her, however, we also became good friends, @I really cannot stand back @watch her do this to herself!!! I have almost 9 years in this program of recovery @ I still cannot understand it when this happens!!! Marty G.


Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston,WV
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 11:06:51 AM

Comments

Hi Gang, its a sunny,lovely day here by the mountains and river.Use the tools of the program . its hard to stay around drinkers more than an hour as they bore my socks off. Sponsors come and go, mine go drunk after 28 years of Sobriety, but managed to get into rehab and nad another 25 years b4 he died. Sorry, my typing is rather rusty.Keep on truckin


Member: Joel
Location: Wi
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 11:15:49 AM

Comments

Marty, I'll just regurgetate what I've been told over my past 8+ years of sobriety... We can carry the message, not the alcoholic. Live and let live. Leg go and let God. This sponser is exactly where she needs to be, whether she realizes it or not. Whenever I'm upset about anything, I have to ask myself, have I honestly accepted that person/situation for what it is? How strong is my spiritual connection with my HP at the moment? My 1st sponser died sober, my 2nd and 3rd went back out, and a good friend who also taught me much drinks NA Beer (ticking time bomb in my opinion)... I've told my friend my experience with NA Beer...led me to relapse in early 90's, talked with him about his issues, and let him know that I'm here for him. He has to want it, and has to take action. Just as I had to want sobriety, and not only be willing but actually take the actions suggested to recover from a hopless state of mind and body. I also need to remember that it's not about me...it's about God. I don't pray for outcomes...I pray for acceptance of God's will. Take care...


Member: Trey
Location: Minneapolis
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 11:23:21 AM

Comments

Hey, Marty from the Badger State. There is nothing that you can do about your sponsor but pray for her and be there to support her in any way you can. On the positive side, it does force you to quit relying upon a sponsor and rely instead upon yourself - and importantly, upon God. If (and that's a big 'if') anyone actually needs a sponsor, he or she surely doesn't need a sponsor after 90 days or so. Otherwise, you have just added another crutch to your life. Best to you, Marty.


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 12:54:16 PM

Comments

Craig L, another real alcoholic (page 21). When I finally got to AA, I had been an isolation drinker for many years, so I had no friends left. I also live alone, but I actively sponsor people who face the issue of significant others. From my perspective the situation often looks hopeless and my mind will let me believe the fear and hopelessness others feel in that situation. Thanks to the 12 steps I now have faith in God and I know that the limitations of my viewpoint does not represent all of the options. Time and again I have seen seemingly impossible circumstances change, when an alcoholic places his efforts toward AA and recovery and puts all the rest in Gods hands


Member: Dietrich M
Location: Kabul, Afghanistan
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 2:24:04 PM

Comments

Hi John, my brother indulges in other addictions, however I work with about 1200 guys who think that I'm weak and etc... for not drinking, especially in the place we're at. As an example, today my crew observed another landmine blow up one of our vehicles, fortunately the driver was the only one inside, and he walked away. it was only another 150m or so from the last one that just recently killed two of our brothers, the guys all went out for a few after we got back to camp, to releave the tension etc... they don't understand that because of what you people have taught me to do in a situation like this, I don't need or want to take that drink today. And thats something for you John, regardless of what others may say or think, as long as you keep doing what you need to do for yourself, others will see you, and maybe one day want to try to be alittle like you. Most of the guys I work with right now, don't know the way I use to be. However those that do remember, tell me that they are impressed with my abilities to mantain what it is I'm trying to do for myself, and only a small handfull of those, know what I am in the program today. So John my friend, keep your chin up, put a smile on your heart for you and for your brother in law, and love him and yourself just the same as if he had told you he respected your choices for today. You never know, one day he just might. From a simple man, and a friend in the program, just another alcoholic...... And to all you who are taking Bill W.'s character defects, and judging him for what he use to do, let it go, you just might be giving someone who is trying this program for the first time,the message that we don't want them for the way they use to be, Anyway we have to learn to forgive and forget, he may have made some bad decsions in his life, but he also made some good one's, don't judge a man or woman for just the bad things they have done, but for what they have accomplished in their lives, and as we hopefully all know, we were given the chance to show the world that we were salvageable and usefull once again, Bill W, has given me that opportunity to become who I beleive I'm supposed to be, and for that I'll always be gratefull, DM


Member: aales
Location: usa
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 3:17:05 PM

Comments

DM, congratulations! You're putting your program to the ultimate test. Keep it up. I avoid situations where alcohol is the primary attraction. If I must attend an event where alcohol is served, I keep it as brief as possible. I just prep myself for the event so that drinking isn't an option. I suggest the AA book "Living Sober" as a good guide for dealing with an alcohol world.


Member: dan f
Location: norcal
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 6:57:56 PM

Comments

this board's once-useful life is over. it's "dying ugly" to borrow a phrase. it's time for the administrators to do the right thing and close it down. enough harm has been done to people looking for help.


Member: fhh
Location:
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 7:06:45 PM

Comments

harm, to who dan,name someone


Member: Mike M
Location: MA USA
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 7:34:33 PM

Comments

Thanks dan. The site has allowed non alcoholic non members to disrupt the spirit of AA here. This is a media not a meeting and SHOULD in finest AA tradition be edited for content.


Member: do not tell things that you do not know
Location:
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 7:50:52 PM

Comments

mike you idiot,anyone is an alcoholic who says they are an alocholic,if you were so damn smart you would not be an alcoholic and anyone can be a member who has the desire to stop drinking and they can be a member even 30 years later without ever drinking again.


Member: Martha
Location:
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 7:57:42 PM

Comments

Mike H. is not an alcoholic or a member of AA,he just says that he is,can we believe him,why would anyone want to edit a site ,if that happened then you would only get to see one side of the coin.


Member: Harley
Location: So Cal
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 11:46:53 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Harley and I'm an alcohlic. I just bought this computer and another member suggested I try online AA, since the fires in California are a major roadblock for me today. So far this whole cyber-meeting thing is just too wierd for me-----I much prefer real people ---I notice alot of the comments on this site are starting to come from people who obviously aren't alcoholics, and some lonely,pathetic fucks who need to get a real life.....I feel sorry for you...


Member: Jeff T.
Location: Ne.
Date: 10/29/2003
Time: 11:47:38 PM

Comments

I agree With dan f of norcal. I used to look forward to visiting this site daily, but once aweek or less to see this mess is enuff.


Member: joe schmo
Location: joe schmoe show
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 12:07:12 AM

Comments

Very very saaaaad!!!!!!


Member: ms
Location: L.A CALIF
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 12:16:22 AM

Comments

Are you guys for REAL?!?!?! Do people like "Michelle" really confide their "rapes" to a bunch of STRANGERS??????? on the internet even????? WOW!!!!!


Member: Gage
Location: La
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 2:17:15 AM

Comments

My name is Gage and I'm an alcoholic. John, I bet you know that your brother-in-law is thinking from the bottom of a bottle and that sort of negates anything he has to say on the subject of your not drinking, doesn't it?


Member: For Harley
Location:
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 8:24:41 AM

Comments

Go suck start your bike.


Member: Prayers requested
Location:
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 8:29:43 AM

Comments

MS,from L.A.,yes some do dislcose such things as Michelle did here on the net.When she posted a couple of longtome female members jumped to her with email addresses,mainly not to support her but to keep her from stating if someone in her group did this to her.More than likely with her coming to an AA site to disclose such a violation she more than likely was 13th stepped by someone at her meeting and wanted to tell others to watch out for the sexual predators in the rooms of AA or any other place for that matter.God bless you Michelle.


Member: Kim G.
Location: FL-USA
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 8:35:07 AM

Comments

John, I know what it is like to have family members think low of you ecspecially when they are all drunk and out of control. They can't accept us whether we drink or not. That takes time, acceptance. I pray and pray for those who have yet to find a way to control their drinking and distateful ways of treating others who are like us. I don't avoid the PP&T's for my sobriety and spirituality has gotten stronger over the years. I treat myself when it is special occasions with a drink that does not contain poison. And I keep my head up because I know that my sobriety comes before anyone else family or not. I am a real women and I don't need anyone else to confirm that. Acceptance is my key!


Member: Marcus
Location: Gig Harbor
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 11:19:22 AM

Comments

Thank you, Prayers Requested. I have known of many women in AA who have been '13th stepped' (i.e. used by others for their own sexual pleasure). Some of these, unfortunately, have been raped by AA old-timers. It is truly disgusting how some people will take advantage of the vulnerable for their own sick and perverted personal pleasure. And, for you out there who would do the same thing: NO, just because Bill Wilson did the same thing DOES NOT make it okay. God bless you, Michelle, and you dear other women who have been raped in AA. God be with you.


Member: AZbill
Location: azbill1172@cox.net
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 2:23:35 PM

Comments

HI. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. My new email address is azbill1172@cox.net The day after I put down my last drink I returned to that bar. The reason is unimportant but I was in deep fear of an alcoholic seizure and wanted to be around people and the only people I knew were the ones I drank with for the past year or so. I was asked to leave. I was told that I was making others look at their drinking. I was kicked out of a bar sober. :) The bottom line is that usually abnormal drinkers generally do not want to be around people who do not drink. Thanks. Love ya. Bill


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 4:19:45 PM

Comments

Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Thanks, John A., for the topic. I think one of the hardest places to really LIVE my program is around family. How to be 'patient, tollerant and accepting' while 'not being a doormat' - for me, this is a hard road to hoe, but it is very rewarding. You are MORE OF A MAN for recognizing your disease and doing something about it. Living sober and happy, being a strong, reliable, loving person to those people around you and your community is great. Keep it up. I've got some friends and family who drink. What I do is this: I enjoy having events (dinners, game nights, etc) at my home, and no one drinks, because I don't serve it in my home. The ones who really want to drink usually leave early. Alternately, I go to friends' homes, where they may drink or not (these are 'normies', which I really don't understand 8^) ). I have family who drink alot, and when I go to their homes, I go early for whatever function, and leave pretty early (before they start settling in to heavy drinking). As for people who need to find fault with my not-drinking, well, what they think of me is between them and God. Sometimes, just being comfortable with myself helps them to eventually be comfortable with me. I had one guy (a co-worker) REALLY take offense that I wouldn't drink with him. He just couldn't understand, and thought I was insulting him by not drinking with him. Oh, well, it's like that room with 20 people in it, and 19 like you. I'm the kind of alkie who used to want to make that 20th person like me at any cost. Not today. That guy is not someone I need. I need sober people like youselves. Thanks, all, see you next week.


Member: Tom M
Location: Cullman, Alabama
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 5:45:40 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Tom an alcohlic: I;ve been around a few 24 hrs and I see lots of you saying if it wasn't for Bill w they would not be alive !!!!! what about Dr Bob ??? He kept Bill stright. Read your history of AA, iT'S interesting. sober in ALABAMA


Member: aakla
Location: usa
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 5:47:56 PM

Comments

When someone can post anonymously, anything is possible. This board has some unusual posts but thats the nature of the internet. I vote against killing or editing this board. I also agree with another post that this is no substitute for a real AA meeting. Take what you need..throw the rest away. Unsure? Check with someone solid in sobriety.


Member: billy .
Location: scotland
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 7:18:18 PM

Comments

keep it simple. stay away from the 1st drink one day at a time. please stop looking at other people's character defects,that includes the co-founder of what is the greatest fellowship in the world and get on with your own sober life or please get off this site. I come on every few weeks but to be honest the stuff this week about bill w has been dreadful,and can be harmful to any newcomer. this 12 step programme works if YOU want it to work.


Member: BG
Location: USA
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 7:32:22 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Barb, alcoholic. I've seen some great advice to John as well as some other interesting tidbits of info...I want to say to Michelle that alcoholics are not all "well" just becuz they're sober- if you indeed WERE '13TH STEPPED'--- (and if not, you need to go report it to a police station-not post it on the internet)....


Member: cam
Location:
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 7:45:45 PM

Comments

thanks to billy from scotland, i agree with him. if you are into character assasination of bill w, then you need to go to a bar and try some 'controlled' drinking and get the fuck off this site!!!!!


Member: Smoky
Location: where the stars can be seen
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 8:04:27 PM

Comments

Thanks for the topic John. I'm an alcoholic, not that I went to a rehab or a doctor and was diagnosed as such. I know I'm one because I have the symptoms of alcoholism. This is a disease, my disease, not any one else's. For those family members and friends that do not accept / or comprehend that for me to drink anything with alcohol in it is signing my death sentence. Perhaps it is their own denial that spurs them on to poke fun at my sobriety or their ignorance. When approached I asked these concerned individuals if I was diabetic, would you poke fun at me not eating sugar or would you serve me up a bowl of candy? I try to keep it simple and pray for those who do not understand my inability to drink alcohol.


Member: Bill M
Location: Georgia
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 8:50:38 PM

Comments

Hi John, If your brother in laws is like my brother in laws. if you did drink then they would be the frist to talk about you because you can note handle it. you would loss any respect you have gain by saying : no : it is got to were they all just drink there beer an let me drink my coke as if i never drinked to start with. it was so funny. i feel like shit on sunday morning so long. that it was really strange to get up on sunday morning feeling good. it was hard to get use to . i had punish my body so long. any way , hang in there john. an every one else. god bless.......


Member: valerie
Location: va
Date: 10/30/2003
Time: 11:23:54 PM

Comments

This is a nice way to touch base with AA when I can't get out to a meeting. I'm just a normal mom with kids and sometimes I go too long with out getting to a meeting. And yes, some are sicker than others in AA but you get that in a meeting too. Just discard anything that doesn't work for you. The steps and the AA program work. It's just that simple. I can find help here even among the junk. AA clearly states that it has no opinion on outside issues. This includes religion, politics, drugs, depression, abuse, sex, gossip about famous people, etc. AA has a singleness of purpose to help alcoholics recover from alcoholism. Having been in the program for a while my advice to newcomers is to get to a good meeting, (keep looking if you find a dud) get a good sponsor and get on with living your life. THanks for letting me share and providing this site.


Member: Mark D
Location:
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 2:09:33 AM

Comments

I'm very sad rite now. I'm sober 7 months this time and I'm afriad life is happening so quickly that a drrink will be relieveing rite now.I'm suffering.. I cant put it into words very well sorry about that this is my first time in a online meeting. I really dont want to drink but I feel it would br brtter than some of my scary ideas rite now. I have 4 small children and they need me. I dont want to hurt them, I dont want to drink, and I dont know how much longer I can hang on. I'm afraid of me rite now..Thanks for letting me shareI dont know what to do


Member: eric q
Location: wisconsin
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 2:18:28 AM

Comments

My name is eric, I just cant stop drinking. No hope in life. Crazy ideas. The very ends of the deep. Horrible alcoholic. Product of abuse. Sometimes I think I need help. Love to you all


Member: Mark D
Location: NC
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 2:34:00 AM

Comments

Eric it would be good for a oldtimer to show up rite now with experience. I dont have much to give rite now, all i can say is I can relate to you rite now


Member: Mark D
Location: NC
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 2:35:09 AM

Comments

Rhe only difference is I havent picked up yet


Member: John A
Location: Manchester (uk)
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 11:00:26 AM

Comments

Hi All, John A Here, A grateful recovering Alcoholic. Thanks everyone for replying to my question to the top of the page. This question was asked to me by my son when I was reading the back end of last weeks share, He was asking about this web site, so I said I would place his question on this site so he and I could read you reply’s, for which he is very artful for. For him to see AA work on the net shows the global support we have for each other and helps him understand AA a bit more. I don’t have a problem with family drinking around me; my brother-in-law’s problem, is his not mind, as its been shared this week, I just stay away. Once again thanks for letting me share. Keep Coming Back John A yourwine@hotmail.com


Member: Janet M.
Location: North Carolina
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 6:18:45 PM

Comments

The topic: Others drinking around you. I have a different take...I feel more uncomfortable if people don't drink around me. I feel like my problem has become theirs. Just because I can't drink doesn't mean others can't. If they shouldn't drink, well, then that's something they need to come to grips with. I can only be a good example. If drinking is not a problem for them, then why should I inflict my problem on them. It is up to me not to succumb. That's all I have to say.


Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston, WV
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 7:42:24 PM

Comments

hey gang, remember one day at a time. Use those slogans, they may be all you have


Member: Ed S
Location: Ohio
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 9:17:31 PM

Comments

Just a word from my own experience about looking at others (Bill W) and finding fault... even to the point of obsessing about how phony, rotten, dishonest someone is... I tried it...found a guy in AA that I absolutely despised... and proceeded to let anyone that would listen know about him... today he is still sober... 8 months after I met this guy and started my crusade, I was drunk... I didn't even see it coming. Thank God that today I have my sobriety and I'm a lot smarter too.


Member: just say no,it works if you work it
Location:
Date: 10/31/2003
Time: 11:51:10 PM

Comments

be responsible for yourself and your loved ones and stop the charade that alcohol has the power over you,leave it alone and stay sober,it is that simple


Member: eric q
Location: WI
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 1:43:50 AM

Comments

I think most here are from a history of abuse and/or trauma, they use/used substances to regulate their emotional life.


Member: big bill
Location: west kingston RI
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 6:32:09 AM

Comments

i have decided that to avoid people that drink that i would have to lock myself in a closet and get a divorce.i have to learn to funtion in the real world without alcohol.with the holidays comming up it will be difficult but i feel that i can handle it.when i go to a party or cookout i sit back and observe the drinkers.their speach is slured,they do make much sense when they speak,they bump into things,spill their drinks,etc.,etc.i just sit there,with my selzer water and thank god for my sobiety.i used to look like them.


Member: John O'L
Location: DFW, Texas USA
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 9:38:24 AM

Comments

Good Morning to all! Thanks for this topic, John A of Manchester, UK, because this certainly bothered me for a period of time. I have found over the past twenty plus years of continuous sobriety that other people of who share this planet with me sometimes have ideas that I can most charitably describe as 'bizarre'. There are some who believe that we live on a flat world. Others are positive that they have been kidnapped by alien beings. Before I entered the program, I used to try to argue with such people, and bring them around to my way of thinking - the 'correct way of thinking', don't you know? Mostly this exercise turned out to be frustrating for them and myself. John A, let other people believe what they want.....To this very day, my father believes that I joined AA to meet people and make new friends, in spite of the fact that his father and brother both died of acute alcoholism. One of my sisters is convinced that if only I would use my willpower, that I could have two beers and then stop. Neither my father nor my sister are alcoholic, so it is difficult for them to understand this aspect of my life. Many of your friends who drink are in the same situation - some of them will believe that you are just being stubborn or anti-social. Some will try to pressure you to drink. What is an alcoholic who want to stay sober to do??? In my life, it has been that those who have severe problems with my not drinking have drifted away from me over the years. This is the way of life - as you lose this one huge thing you used to have in common with such friends, then you will begin to part from them. They will seek others to hang around with who drink as you used to. Some of them you will meet again as they pass through the doors of AA. Some you will not see again. God Bless you John A, and all who seek sobriety.


Member: Bob C.
Location: Toledo, OH
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 10:55:29 AM

Comments

Hi all, Do you remember when we drank and everyone stayed away from us? Well that was the case with me after awhile in my drinking stoopers. If you want to stay sober you will go to any lengths to do so. And part of that may be staying away from family members who bother you while they have their one two, or many drinks. It took many years for me to become comfortable even thinking about going somewhere there is going to be drinking. Now after many years sober,I don't just bar hop or party hop. Why? It is not the life I live anymore. That's what's it is all about. The life you live today and how you live it. If your applying the 12 steps into your everyday life, you will find you do not need the excitement of all the so called bar glam and party atmosphere.When I do go to an event where there is drinking going on, it is my choice on how long I stay a how much I am going to put up with. I am the type of guy that can tolerate allot. I see allot in my job working for the court system. But that does not make me God when it comes to my life. Only God has control of that. God has given me a sense of great abilities to know better.It's when I my mind says "you know Bob, you having been doing so good maybe your cured" ! NOT!!! This is where it is not a drinking problem but it is a thinking problem. Bottom line. When something or someone is bothering you, Don't Drink, Pray, Call Your Sponsor, Go to a Meeting, Help some who needs it apply the 12 steps ect. What ever order you want to do these things in makes no difference as long as you do them. Your chances of you staying sober is much great than trying to make your Brother-in-Law see things your way, because he may talk you into seeing things his way, and you get drunk!!! That's about all for now. God Bless and take it One Day At A Time ! Bob


Member: gerald L.
Location: Lennox, ca.
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 12:13:50 PM

Comments

The old Methodist Minister was rsiling against the evils of drink, saying "i'd like to take every bottle of wine and empty it in the river, and do the same with aevery bottle of beer and spirits". The choir Then sang the closing hymn " shall we gather at the river".


Member: chris H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 1:01:03 PM

Comments

I'm Chris-i'm an alcoholic/addict--It's is interesting thinking about this topic. My friends are all used to me not drinking by now, and as others have said, the ones who aren't aren't around me very much anymore. I understand that it might be more difficult with family members, but it is their own insecurity about their drinking that makes them want you do drink with them. As others have said,if they really cared about you they would not push the issue. I have one friend that we don't spend too much time with any more. I suspect that she feels deep down that she has a drinking problem ( which she might have), and I guess, I make her uncomfortable. And to tell you the truth, beining around her make me uncomfortable too, because some of her behaviours are the things I have tried to get out of my life since I have stopped drinking...This sight has really helped me...let's keep it focused on how we can keep clean adn sober!!Keep coming back!!


Member: DUANE P
Location: PHOENIX, AZ.
Date: 11/1/2003
Time: 4:51:48 PM

Comments

well. duane here, an alcaholic. i guess all i have to say is that i used to be concerned with what other people thought, and i used to feel that everything was a competition, specially drinking, and i was very competitive, but then one day a bolt of lightning hit me (not literally) and on that day i realized it was not about me, it was about GOD, and how could i possibly think that what i was doing was fun or admirable or even how could i want to be the person i was, in total agony. you see i like the peace i have now, to not have a hangover, or feel woozy, or dizzy, or to not want to have been convicted of three d.u.i.'s, or to not want to have spent time in jail. i think i will choose freedom, and peace that GOD gives me now. yesterday is over and tomorrow never comes, what do i ahve. I have today, and nobody, not a relative who can't live with there own misery, or a friend who is only a friend because we used to drink together, is going to make me pick up another drink. I know what that will bring and i don't want to die until GOD tells me it is time to go. it is not strange that the people that matter are the ones that think my sobriety is great, there the ones that i choose to spend my time with, there also the ones that know that i had a serious drinking problem, even when i denied it thoroughly. I think Hot Diggity Dog said it earlier and i think he said it best "i know when i've had enough". and believe me I know when I've had enough also. thanks for letting me share. and thanks for sharing.GOD BLESS.Duane


Member: Grace
Location:
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 2:06:02 AM

Comments

alcoholism might be a disease for some, but for anyone here who knows and understands what its like to have "lost the power of choice" to use or drink, i would politely argue with them that it clearly makes alcoholism a mental illness, the big book states it crystal clearly, it says... "the problem centers in our minds... the strange mental twist, etc etc. and for me that was exactly what it seemed like, i was not able to stay stopped, and my ability to stay off the booze progressed to the point of only abstaining juring the nightime and maybe up until noon after i awoke, im sure if i had of kept on going i would have ended up a morning drinker and eventually having to get up juring the night to have a fix... can you imagine? not even being able to sleep through the night properly because you have to get up and have some alcohol or pills or whatever. what a nightmare. feeling very grateful at the moment, thanx for letting me share.


Member: eric q
Location: wi
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 2:28:25 AM

Comments

hmm, what drove us to this to disussion room in the first place? past all the substance abuse. You are born again, a child, what was so wrong? Well, I cant even imagine the horrible stories. Tip of the iceburg, when I was 6 or 7, I woke up chritmas morning to find my stocking filled with charcol briquetes. My parents told me I was a rotten child. unable to respond, I decided I would crall into a bottle of booze many years later anyone else have a story?


Member: Brandy
Location: valencia ca
Date: 11/2/2003
Time: 2:35:43 AM

Comments

I'm Brandy and I'm an alcoholic. I had 10 years and relapsed. For the last few years I have tried and tried to get "it" back, but I can't seem to. I am becoming very tired and hopeless. It used to be easy to go to family/social stuff and not drink, but now everything (even meetings where they talk about drinking alot) makes me want to get loaded!!! I am so scared and need someone to talk to... all my sponser wants to discuss is if I went to a meeting or not....