Member: Jen P.
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 00:31:20
Jen here-alcoholic. Perhaps we could hear about timing, guidance, and prudence in making amends. I am going into a situation where I will have the chcance to see someone who has been on my amends list, and I am willing. I don't think it would harm her or anyone else I can think of. My sponsor says I will know if this is the time. How about this for a topic?
Member: Todd P
Location: Indpls. IN
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 02:04:04
Wow!! What a topic. Todd, alcoholic here. This is probably the part of the program that i have the hardest time with. I dont think there is ever a bad time to make an amends unless its never. I always try to talk any amends, that i do, over with my sponcer first. I know that in order for me to grow and overcome my dificulties that i must first make an honest effort to clean up the wreckage of my past. This is when I know that the promises will start to come true in my life. Thanks for the topic.
Member: Bill. L.
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 03:19:33
Hi,Bill L here,good topic but I was taught early on that you don't make amends because it makes you feel good !!! You make amends because they ought to be made!!!! I don't think timing comes into it, if no one is going to be hurt, just do it.
Member: Albuquerque John
Location: in transit
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 04:07:57
There was a posting last week on this topic in answer to a question from TSA in Roche NY.
The answers are STILL all in the Big Book pages 77-84 beginning with line 18 page 77.
Page 83 lines 19-28 should answer your question. Lines 25-28 will give more information. The Big Book is clear on this matter of timing.
Having made amends to a particular person there is no longer the need to have fear of that person and it removes the guilt and remorse. Thus we make amends to ourselves, probably the most important part of Step 9, enabling us to go forward and ask ourselves "Are the promises on page 84 being fulfilled in my life and if not why not?"
It is important for me to emphasise this – nowhere in the Big Book does it say you have to make amends to everyone all at once. It can be a gradual steady process in which you make amends to one person at a time. Nowhere in the Big Book does it say you have to begin by making amends to the people you most despise or the ones you have hurt most deeply. We are free to start with the easiest names on the list and gradually work though to the toughest. My experience is that each person I make amends to helps give me the courage and compassion to make amends to the next person on the list, but if at any point courage and compassion fail, I have to pray to my Higher Power for help and guidance.
As I began and saw the benefits that come from making amends I became more willing to make amends to everyone I have harmed.
The question is “Can I find peace of mind and happiness and stay sober if I don’t make amends?” My experience is that the answer is “No, I can’t”.
If we work the first nine steps fully and sincerely then every one of the promises on page 84 will come true. The promises never fail, they will always come true if we work for them – not sometimes, not most of the time, but EVERY time. The Big Book guarantees this on lines 14-15 on page 84. I guarantee it too.
Vaya con Dios
Member: Mae M.
Location: Narrowsburg, N. Y.
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 08:47:39
Hi, Mae here, thanks again Jen for the topic. Thanks to you too Albuquerque John, for quoting the big book so well. I always admire people who can quote the big book. I have 32 years in the program, and have read and reread the big book many many times, but can not quote any of it. However I do try to live by it one Day at a time, still. My sponsor told me when I came in that when it was time to make amends the people would appear. That happened, and I did. She also said that when I started to become uncomfortable with people I needed to make amends to, and they were available, then it was time to make amends to whoever that particular person was. I was one of the lucky ones no one ever rebuffed me. All my amends were accepted. Even by people who didn't know I had to make amends to.. Like the friend I babysat for and drank from her private liquor cabinet, and then filled the bottle with water. Nevermind that I was drinking while I was babysitting. She was great about it. She was one of those people that you call a social drinker. She could have a drink in front of her for a whole party, AND NOT EVEN SIP FROM IT. I know because she and her friend were the first couple (outside of aa) that I decided I wanted to spend my first sober New years with. At that time I still thought everyone drank like me. ha ha She taught me different, and it was a very comfortable sober New Year. It was however the last one I celebrated outside of AA. All the rest were celebrated with AA friends and in AA rooms Whoops sorry got carried away. thanks for listening.
Member: Shelly W
Location: Arkansas
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 09:55:14
Good morning this is Shelly and I am alcoholic. Making amends was and still is one the toughest things I had to learn to do. When I first entered this program I had no use for this step and was determined to slide right past it without anyone knowing. Well as time went on I realized that making the amends was not something I had to do for the other person but it was for my well being and I had to do it if I had any intentions of staying sober. It would allow me to release the guilt, fear, anger, resentment or whatever I held inside of me about that particular person or situation.
There are a few people on my 8th step list that I cannot make direct amends to because it would certainly hurt them and others. So in that case I have made indirect amends by praying for them and asking God's forgiveness. Maybe one day things will change and I will have the opportunity to make them directly but for now the injury to them would be too great. This is where it is very important for us not to just run off and start making amends without giving it some very careful thought and consideration.
The most meaninful amend for me was to my ex husband. It was one of those amends that I just did not want to make because I felt he had hurt me deeply by leaving our marriage. But after some very deep soul searching I realized that I did my part too by making him totally miserable for many years. I finally made the direct amend to him and he totally refused it and rejected me. That is when I learned that making the amend released me of the ball and chain that I carried with that persons name on it. I did my best and that is all I can do. Today I no longer carry the guilt, fear, anger etc. because I know in my heart that I did what I needed to do to make things right.
Once again thank you for letting me share with all of you this morning. I am looking foward to reading other comments this week and participating next week.
Member: JCP ^\^
Location: Penn's Woods
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 12:11:46
J here, a grateful alcoholic:
Good topic for me, Jen, not my strong suit, amends. Then Albuquerque comes along throwing the book at me--don't take it wrong, Al, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm talking about me and amends which sometimes don't come easy.
We're not talking mere apology (as explained in the Big Book). We're talking about "mending" or fixing or undoing. I'll never forget my first shots at this: I phoned the top of my list, said just enough for voice recognition and listened to the hangup click. Checked off one amend!
My biggest individual rewards from A.A. without doubt are that my son and brother have come into the program, even though A.A. did this itself. Actually, it was beyond my dream how our Higher Power could spread through the family in several cities and free the younger tiers from the alcoholic lives we grew up in.
But I didn't cause it. I merely had my brother on the phone, when he said, "Come on down here and we'll pop a few cans and talk this thing over." I said, "I'd like to come down but I don't pop cans anymore." He said, "You what!" Six months later I find out he's in A.A.; not only that, he's correcting me on everything.
For you, happily, it may be different. But hey, for me this is comparing how they will feel about an amends attempt to all those times I could not even remember what I did, even though I hardly ever doubted what they said. So try asking, and your higher power just might have help you never dreamed of.
Member: Kay
Location:
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 13:52:56
Thanks Jen for an interesting topic. I too need to work on making many amends. I take it one day at a time. Rather than regretting what I did when I was drinking, I thank God every day for helping me live my life today. I don't make it a point to make amends, necessarily, but when the time comes. I think I'll be ready. AA has helped me through many tough times, and through the advice of sober-cyber AAers, I think we'll all learn to live life to the fullest and, most of all, learn how to forgive ourselves.
Member: Rick S.
Location: B.C. NV
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 18:07:56
Hello my name is Rick and I am still an alcoholic... making amends for me was a learning experience. I read the "suggestions" in the big book and as usuall interpretted them in my own all knowing way. So I started contacting people and telling them I was "sorry" OKFINE...that step was done! whew! Then as usual life started teaching me what the suggestions really meant. As was stated earlier amends are to relieve us of guilt, anger, resentment, lust, ect... so that we may move on to being of maximum service to God and others. I found out that when I said I was "sorry" to someone, they would say "that's OK don't worry about it". This was heard by me as "I didn't mind so you can do it again"! Today I try very hard not to do anything I will have reason to appoligize for later. In other words I ask for Gods advice before the shit hits the fan... I also found the hardest, yet most rewarding (for growth) was to myself. I also have found, from experience that when it was time to make a needed amends the people reappeared in my life. God works...some times in the strangest of ways. Seee Yaaa !!!
Member: Mike N
Location: Colorado
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 19:44:19
Hi this is Mike, We'll I've been drinking for quite awhile now, just realize over 17 years. Started when I was in the military and continue ever since. I don't really see myself as an alcoholic, but my wife thinks I am and need help. You are probably saying yea everyone says that at first. My excuses are I dont drink everyday, but when I usually get together with friends, I usually cant control my drinking and have way to much and end up driving home. I'm really lucky I haven't killed anyone yet or myself. I took the test and scored a definite yes to being an alcoholic. That seems like such a hard word to get use to. My wife threaten to leave me for the second time this last episode, I got really scared and told her I do have a problem and I would seek help. I found the your web site and been reading the articles, haven't made it to a meeting yet, thought I would try this. Amend, well I guess I trying to amend things up with my wife by signing on to the site, by the way I haven't drank it almost a week, again my challenge will be when I get together with friends if I should drink or not.
Member: Gabrielle P.
Location: Mansfield, TX.
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 20:26:19
Hi Gabrielle Grateful, Recovering alcoholic here! Thank you Jen for this topic it hits home for me. I thought making amends was just telling people I was was sorry. When I went to do my first amends I worked with my sponser and did three steps. I asked my Higher Power to forgive me, I forgave myself and then set about asking forgiveness from the person I had harmed. I to ended up with some "It's okay, don't worry," and I told them that wasn't what I was after. I truely needed them to forgive me and believe that whatever I had done was causing me internal pain and to be released I needed them to accept my amends. I couldn't and still can't make amends to some people because I don't remember or I haven't seen them. but I have forgiven my self and am ready to make amends to them. I believe the greatst amends I have made is to my parents. For the first time I can tell them that something hurts me and they understand that even though they may not have meant it to hurt that that is how I took it. It is a great feeling to be able to be honest and get an honest answer. Today the neighbors dog got to my sheep. It severly hurt one and we can't find the other one. We called the police, this is the third time we have called because of their dogs being loose. They don't care about their animals the same way I do and so we didn't feel talking to them would help. I feel badly for those people they don't understand my pain and that must be a terrible way to live. I try to live right and do things the right way and I guess some people can't grasp what that means. Anyway thanks for letting me share. In Sobriety, In A.A., In Life!
Member: Patti N
Location: Louisiana
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 20:31:21
Hi, Patti - alcohol. I drink like Mike and it took more research after 22 1/2 months sober to find that out. I'm one of the lucky ones who made it back. The first time I didn't have a complete 1st step so my making amends wasn't a great success. I am now on step 8, have 87 days and am miserable. I haven't drank miraculously - just an alcoholic without my medicine. God has kept me sober and my sponsor and the book tell me that the promises will begin to be revealed as I do my 9th step. I am not looking forward to making amends - I'm scared - but if that's what it takes for me to live in my own skin without drinking I will keep asking God to help me to keep showing up for the work. My sponsor is tough and I have faith that she through God's help with lead me through it. Today is Sunday and I'm feeling a little spirtitual. Although I've been praying alot for the past several weeks, i haven't felt very protected, but I know that I'm staying sober on my own. So as Chris R. says "Bring on the Pain!" It can't be worse than this!
Member: Big John M.
Location: Modesto, CA
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 22:35:09
Hi,everyone. I'm John, a real alcoholic. Good topic and good discussion! As Albuquerque said, (first time I ever wrote that word; driven through it a few times but never wrote it before) all the guidance we need is in the Big Book. Like some others before me, I am guilty of not following the suggestions given us during the first 11 years of my 16 years in the Program. The result of my customizing THE Program into MY Program is that I now have 5+ years of continuous daily sobriety instead of 16 years. Today I follow THE Program to the best of my ability, and, by the Grace of God, I have been relieved of the compulsion to drink for quite a while now. I have been making amends since I truly surrendered 5 years ago and still have some to make. They will occur when it is time; His time, not mine, as the ones left are ones without a way to get in touch, or, address unknown, etc. I too, started with the easiest and gradually worked my way toward the most difficult. And, as the gentleman from that place in New Mexico said, the Promises have come true in my life today. I have been given so many gifts in sobriety, from the ability to truly experience life as it is, to just the fact that I am alive, today! What a miracle! Thank you all out there, and Thank my Higher Power, God, for all that I have today; especially all the learning and growth opportunities (difficulties or challenges) I have had in sobriety. Good night and God Bless!
Member: Tamara M.
Location: AZ
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 22:59:46
On making amends. I wish I could spend as much time on making amends as I do thinking about the dumb stuff I've done to require the amends! Why is it so hard to say "I'm sorry"? I know that for myself, my pride kept me from asking for help when I needed it. That and the false thinking that I could handle this (addiction) by myself. I've learned how valuable friends are by sharing in meetings and asking for help when I feel myself slipping. I don't want to alienate any more friends, my sponsor or my family. Most drinkers/druggers are solitary and secretive in their using. We also have a lot of false pride. These days I try to do what feels right and admit when I'm wrong. Admitting we're only human and having a sense of humor about this life help too.
Member: James Lupp
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Date: 17 Oct 1999
Time: 23:45:34
My names is James, and I'm an alky. The first amends I made, strange as it sounds, was to myself. I didn't pick up the first drink. As long as I didn't pick up the first drink, the DUI's stopped, puking and crapping at the same time every morning stopped and the attitude got real different. The amends progressed from there.
I walked through the steps with my sponsor. God took it from there. Every thing after the third step was on God's time. Walking up to those people in the spirit of setting things right is not James' way of doing things. I didn't really care if I got anything out of it. I was just tired of living the way I was living and tired of being left out. That self-made prison I lived in was hell!
The "I'm sorries", I knew wouldn't fill the bill. That was more a statement of character(or lack of), but not the admission of my wrongs, or a statement of my role and responsibilities for the problems that were of my own making.
I am grateful for this step which took me out of my prison and gave a rebirth to my relationship to others. Especially my relationship to God. He gets all the credit for any and all sucesses in my life today. Thanks for sharing about this step and all steps. In the Fellowship of the Spirit JamesL. drop a line anniel@ocinet.net
Member: anonymous
Location: in a meeting evryday!
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 00:06:15
God made people with cracks, or defects of character to let the light in!
Member: A.M.M
Location: Pa
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 02:15:44
thanks so much for all the good things ive read tonite.ive been trying so hard to stay sober lately,i have about 16 months sober,w/a 16 month old daughter,my hhusband just left me. thank god for my sponsor&suppurt group.!!! i hope everything goes well for everyone that sent mail to this session.if anyone is up please do me a favor give some gratitude for me,i know it could bee alot worse,icould be out there drinking and drugging. i know what i have now i willlose everything,i know thhat,but it is so hard to deal with the feelings that im not used to dealing with lately. i do have my higher power w/me witch i do thank everyday and night for another day sober. if anyone is up or if not everyone have a good day and night, GOD BLESS!!!GOODLUCK!PEACE!
Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 06:55:01
I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic.
MIKE N: I am you, friend. Retired military. Drank by myself and with buddies for 17 years, then with wife about to leave, I saw the light. Only you can decide if you are an alcoholic. I decided I was (and am). The signs were: daily drinking and frequent heavy drinking, life falling apart (wife about to leave), routinely driving drunk, and constant feelings of worthlessness. If any of this hits close to home, you may be in the right place. I recently started attending face to face meetings and highly recommend it. I went it alone in sobriety for many years and only recently discovered the great value of being able to talk to people who totally understand my problems.
Ammends: In my early sobriety, I looked at it as a phase I had to get through. I made a list of those I hurt and called or wrote them to tell them I was sorry and was trying to clean up my act through the 12 steps. They mostly forgave me. Over the years, I realize that taking inventory and making amends is a daily step that I must continuously repeat. I make daily amends to God through prayer and daily living, to my wife and kids through love and caring, to self through forgiveness and recognition of my self worth and goodness. To me, this daily "recycling" of the steps and self-monitoring is the essence of the program of AA.
Thanks for letting me share. God go with Mike N and the other newcomers. Love, Fred
Member: Shani T
Location: U.K
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 07:59:25
I would really like to gain a pen pal from the USA. I am currently going through a separation and am finding life difficult. I have been sober for 17 years and am 39 years old. I may come over to the USA when this is settled, for approx 3 months. My intention is to have some 'healing time' which I hope to spend with my brothers and sisters in A.A. I will probably want to go to Arizona or somewhere else that it hot.. it is so cold and dull here in the U.K. I hope desperately to hear from someone. Very much love in fellowship.
Member: Terri S.
Location: Wis.
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 09:18:30
Good Morning every body, A Grateful Alcoholic here i would like to welcome the New Comers to the A.A. Family. Steps 8&9 when i went over this with my sponsor i learned is actly what i was apoligizing for & did so, so i could get rid of the guilt like everyone else. Thank God the steps are here to help us not hurt us, i had to learn that first. on the first step.i'm very happy God has a sense of humor too.if i want to make my God laugh is all i have to do is perdict the out come of events or what ever. i'am new at the computer world so please bear with me.Shai T. im 38yrs old & would love to be your pin pal.email me at tcsiler@win.bright.net Big John you sound like some one i'm very good friends with in Fla. were i got sober before i moved to Wis. God Bless you all each & everyone
Member: Robert B
Location: Boise Idaho
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 09:33:55
Hi. I'm Robert and I am an alcoholic.
My first sponsor took me through the steps. In order to keep my selfishnes and self-serving traits out of the process he had me write each amend on my 8th step list on a 3x5 card, and draw a card at random, then make that amend. Another thing was there were amends owed to people whose identity are unknown, and there were societal amends, where I had harmed by creating a public nuisance. I make those amends by anonymous public service.
Finally, it has been pointed out to me that crucial to the amends process is to amend the old behaviors... it is not enough to make restitution and apologize, If I continue in the same old mode of dysfunction.
Peace Robert
Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 11:19:29
We have no dues or fees, but we do have expenses for this server and the domain registery. Please visit "Pass the Hat" and help carry the message (AA members only).
Member: Barb W.
Location: Dayton, OHIO
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 12:34:44
Hi Everybody, I'm Barb, I'm alcoholic. Just a note to say that when I was ready to make amends, it was like this: "When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear." Many things have occurred like this over the 15 years+ that I have been rendered sober. Job opportunities, friends, growth, marriage, amends, and life. Nothing good comes from drinking/drugs-nothing. God has a wonderful way of getting my attention when he needs to. Life is good without booze and drugs-really good. It's not easy, but life is full. I remember when it was so empty.
Member: Tedd T.
Location: Omaha, NE
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 15:04:31
Hi, I'm Tedd and I'm an alcoholic.
This is a good topic, because it makes me think, who do I need to make amends with? Well to start off, I still need to make amends with my parents. Everyday, since they picked me up in the police station, I either thank them and apologize to them, in person or through God, but to me it's still not enough. They have put up with a lot of stuff from me, but this was bad. They gave their time and money without question, just to get me out of trouble and to get me help. I used to drink on a daily basis, I used to wonder what else there was to do. I used to think that Omaha was a horrible town, because there was nothing to do. The truth is, everything takes money, and I had none, because all of it was going to my alcohol problem. Now I do have money, and I can only hope that my parents will forgive me for the pain and worry I have caused them.
Thanks again for the topic. This is the first time I've come to this site, and I must say, thanks for letting me speak my mind.
Member: Gary M
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 15:48:29
Hi, I'm Gary, I'm an alcoholic. The first mistake I made when I came into AA, was to make ammends to quickly. I did a 9th step with my wife, with about 6 weeks soriety. By the Grace of God, we are still togehter, however it took her 3 years ot forgive me. Soon after that I got a sponosr, his advise to me, always take God with you. Another thing he told me, the steps are in order for a reason. Don't know if this helps, but it is what occured to me.
Member: Tom A. 7/25/60
Location: Carlisle, AR
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 17:38:06
Good Afternoon!
My name is Tom A. a grateful sober alcoholic today by the grace of a wonderful Higher Power and this fellowship we call A.A.
Thank you Jen P. in Poconos, PA for this stimulating topic it has indeed produced many helpful posts. I am an old timer in this fellowship and I am amazed how much I learned about staying sober during my first year in the program. I was told that this is a Suggested Program of Recovery and to use what works for me one-day-at-a-time. One of my early sponsors told me to ask myself this question before any action on my part. "How will this effect my sobriety?" I find this to be very helpful when dealing with AMENDS. I for one believe that it a never ending process, but this program has given me to tools for knowing about "timing, guidance and prudence" in making amends.
Welcome to all who post on Staying Cyber's Discussion Group and especially the NEWBIE's!
Enjoy Your Sobriety Today!
God Bless - Tom A. ate@gte.net
Member: Nikki B
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 18:03:01
Hi everyone, I'm Nikki and I'm an alcoholic. From the understanding that I have in this program is that our Higher Power, puts the people into our lives when it is time to make amends. We have to feel the uncomfortability in ourselves and then we know it is the right time to do it.
We can only do the right thing when we feel it is the right time. I have made some amends with the people on my list and it is do to damage that I have done in their life, not to make myself feel better. Even tho' after making the amends there is a relief that more reckage from my past has been put behind me.
Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Pattw/2tees
Location: Oregon
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 21:14:08
Thank you for the topic, Jen, and thanks to all for sharing. Patt, grateful recovering alcoholic, sober today by the grace of God and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
My first amends were to my husband and children and I made them early on in my sobriety, but after I had taken the fourth step, a bit previous, but I needed to do it for me. I had run it by my sponsor and told her that I was feeling the push to do it. She gave me the go-ahead, and I did make the amends to each and every one of them--separately and individually. What a relief!
I must always remember what my motive is in making amends, also. I was anxious to make amends to a former boss to whom I had really given the short end of the stick when I was working. Had been going through marital hell at the time and was really worthless as an employee, but he was very understanding and patient. My sponsor said to wait for the right time, and if my Higher Power wanted me to put things right with this person, He would give me the setting for the amends. One day I ran into my former boss while we were both crossing a parking lot on foot, and I was able to tell him what I had done. He looked astonished and said, "Patt, you didn't have to do that, I understand." I replied, "Jim, I had to do it for ME to feel better." He said thank you and we climbed into our respective cars and left. I can tell you that I'll never feel uncomfortable around that man again thanks to this program.
The best amend I can make to anyone is to maintain my sobriety--that's what I, my husband, children and friends want, and I hope that's what I can do, one day at a time.
Thanks for letting me share. Blessings on us all. "Trust God, clean house, help others." Patt
Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 23:35:57
Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic, sober today only by the grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! And thanks everyone for sharing!
As a rule, I think making amends should not be done without the guidance of a sponsor or spiritual advisor. During my first months of sobriety, I failed to listen to advice about amends and tried to make an amends to an ex of mine. She told me to take a hike.
With more sobriety under my belt, I took the AA suggestions more seriously and worked closely with my sponsor. Nothing like what happened with my ex happened again. In fact, I eventually did make amends to her and we get along well today. More importantly, working with my sponsor, I was able to get an objective perspective on things, and he was able to offer input into when, where, and if I should make amends to someone.
So for those of you making amends for the first time (actually anytime), I suggest you work with a sponsor or spiritual advisor when preparing to make amends.
Member: Jan P
Location: Salem, MA
Date: 18 Oct 1999
Time: 23:37:40
Amends? My name is Jan and I'm an alcoholic, sober today through the Grace of God. I have been 29 years sober and drug free and I am 58 years old. When I came into the program for the last time my whole life was a mess. My parents, my ex-husband, even my AA aquaintances were all sick and tired of me and my "performances". I was not allowed to see my two little girls, and I had no one human being who was there for me. My only choice was to grab hold of the Higher Power and not let go. Like one of the earlier commenters said, "when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear". My teacher was an old timer who explained the disease of alcoholism to me in a way that removed my guilt about being an alcoholic. Like every newcomer I had multiple problems -- he told me to go AA all the way -- me and God and a sponsor would get the job done. I told him about the wreckage of my past, and how none of these people would even speak to me and how could I make amends to them. His answer? "When the time is right, God will put these people in touch with you. Meanwhile, there are eight other steps that come before the ninth, and you are still on the first three." So, I trusted that one other human being, and he never gave me a bad steer. He also told me that when God was ready for me to see my daughters I would see them, and I would have the opportunity to make whatever amends were possible. He was right. It took three years before I was able to see my girls, and another five before they began to trust me a little. Today, we have a loving relationship, thanks to God and AA. I have four children altogether, three of them are in recovery. The fourth was born during my fifth year of sobriety, and what a difference! I thought I was incapable of being a parent, but I found out that it was not true. Like Jack, my mentor, told me, the disease lies to us, tells are we are "less than" and "unworthy of". Once sober and on the steps to recovery, we react and function much like those "normal" people out there (even though we should remember that we will NEVER be "normal" -- normal people can drink). Thank you all for being here. I enjoyed reading your comments, and I appreciate the chance to share my experience, strength and hope with all of you.
Member: Jo
Location: Arizona
Date: 19 Oct 1999
Time: 00:07:42
We make amends to clean off our side of the street. That is our responsibility.
Member: Jim Samuelson
Location: Madison, AL
Date: 19 Oct 1999
Time: 10:05:25
My name is Jim Samuelson, and I am an Alcoholic
When I had my list of amends and had discussed them with my sponsor / spiritual advisor, I was reminded that I was to “Make direct amends to those people we have harmed, wherever possible. Except when to do so would injure them or others.” The primary points that he had me consider were first the capability to make direct amends, then we discussed the meaning of wherever possible vice whenever, and finally we looked at the potential for injury to others.
Since an amend is far more than just another apology or promise to be good or do better, these steps should not be taken lightly. I have learned that an amend is a total change in how I deal with these passed wrongs, so that I will never again do those things that are objectionable to myself and others. Therefore, the easiest amends to directly make were those associated with financial considerations. I learned to pay my rent and bills on-time, balance my checkbook, and over a considerable period cleanup the financial wreckage. I also learned that just going to work and giving my employer an honest days effort for a day’s pay was in itself an amend. More personal amends required a different approach and a better understanding the meaning of “wherever possible.” Over the passed eighteen years I have made direct amends wherever possible, When I walked into my Father’s house seven months sober I was where I needed to be to make amends to my family. By staying sober I have proven to them I meant what I said. Last year while on a business trip I happened to meet an old relationship which I had mistreated – I spent nearly an hour with her making my amends.
Some people that I owe amends to, I have never spoken to directly and I probably never will. There are to many people I never knew that I stole from, or connived, or lied to, or manipulated. My amends to them is to stay sober and to not steal, connive, lie, or manipulate. There are also the women that I spent time with that had husbands of their own. I cannot put them at risk to salve my guilt – therefore I stay sober and I don’t sleep around with other men’s wives.
This is my experience, strength, and hope on making amends "wherever possible." It was vital for me to go through these steps and to be prepared to suffer the consequences of our actions. But I do not have to do this alone. I need to discuss it with a sponsor or spiritual advisor that has the experience of having worked steps 8 & 9 and then ask the support of my God.
Thank you for letting me share.
Read the Book.
Member: Joe C
Location: Scottsdale
Date: 19 Oct 1999
Time: 10:36:33
Much of my drinking came as a result of my ignorance when it came to the treatment of others and myself. I drank as a means of not feeling the guilt, pain, fear or any other general emotion that came as a result of my actions or non-actions. I therefore had to amend the damage done to others and myself in order to live in peace with myself; which I did painstakingly with the assistance of my sponsor.
Does that mean that I have become perfect now. Absolutely not. I have had to add names to my 8th step list over these years in sobriety and have tried very hard to quickly and directly amend any damage I may have caused. I have hurt people in sobriety and have had to make amends to them but the difference today is that I know that I did not intentionally cause the harm and I am much more willing to amend it.
I think I may owe an amend to a friend I just wrote to on the coffee pot. If so, it is fine with me because the words I spoke were not meant to harm but rather help. However, I still may have hurt her feelings and that will require the amend. I am rambling now so I will end here.
Thank you for letting me share again this week.
Member: tech
Location: cyberia
Date: 19 Oct 1999
Time: 21:31:41
test
Member: Tony A
Location: Crowsnest,PA
Date: 19 Oct 1999
Time: 21:57:26
Hi Family, Tony Apollo, alcoholic. Thanks for the topic Jen. When I first starting making amends my grand sponsor, a long timer, said I should start at home and work my way out from there. It was good for me to be spiritually guided by my H.P. I need some help and strength to make a decsion like this in my life. Timing is important. But when the time arises. DoIT! You may not get a second chance. Sometimes we will just run into people by no coincedence. Ask your H.P. to help you do the next right thing. How great it feels to clean up the past and live in the present. Love you all, Your Friend Tony A.
Member: Joann E
Location: Wyo
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 01:56:59
Hi Im Joann Im Alcoholic This My Frist Meeting On The Internet. But I go to meetings all the time. Thisis cool and I've got a lot out of reading everyones experience on Amends. But Mike I feel in my experience that AA Face to Face Meeting would Keep Me More in reality Because your watching them share. People sharing there experience,strenght,hope.So keep comming back. Your in my prayers.
Member: Ruth E
Location: PA
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 02:11:37
Hi, I am Ruth E. recovering alcoholic. I have almost 7.5 yrs clean & sober by the grace of my higher power. I just located this site, and am happy to see it here. Thanks for a thought-provoking topic. Making amends frightens me. I actually have made some amends, but they were not the face-to-face amends. There were a great number of people I endangered during my addiction, and these are people I will likely never see again in this life. If I did see them, it might cause harm to someone should I tell them how impaired I was when we had our interactions. So, by staying sober and doing my job to the best of my ability, helping people as much as I can, I hope to make amends to these nameless others from my past. As for individuals, I try to make amends as they re-appear in my life. However, I still have this ego!! I hate to admit I was wrong! And, too often, when admitting wrong or accepting blame, I fall easily into the "victim" stance. Then I am afraid I have undone the amends. Boy, do I need HP help with this one. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Ron S
Location: upstate N.Y.
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 03:09:46
Hi I'm Ron and I'm an alcoholic! In the little black book some time around September I believe,it gives what they call the short version of the steps. I can't remember all of them but what stuck in my head was this, they refered to steps 8&9 as the restitution steps (restitution-payback) this is where we earn our seats this is where we pay our dues. I don't believe I earned my seat in A.A. because I was a drunk I believe the people who came before me earned this seat for me and I hope that I can continue the tradition of one drunk helping another. Well PAYBACK is a B_____ well we know what that is, and what goes around comes around but it doesn't have to go any further. The problem with payback is it is necessary and we don't have control over how much or how long. Someone mentioned the promises they come after the 9th step in the Big Book. All those people all that stuff I just don't have to do it any more it's not about saying I'm sorry its about LIVING the APOLOGY. So say Your Sorry where and when You can. Be an example of what the program teaches us. Tell them where You got it & thanks for having me.
Member: Cherise L.
Location: Sober in PA
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 07:10:28
Hi I'm Cherise and I'm a Grateful alcoholic. Hey Jen, thanks for the topic, and I really miss you guys!!!!!
For me, when it was time for me to make amends to someone, they appeared. I agree with everyone that says you should get the guidance from your sponsor though. It took some people a long time to forgive me (Mostly family members) but today by the power of example I show, they have. I said I was sorry so many times when I was drinking, but always continued to repeat the same things I was sorry for. Today I try not to do that. I live my amends and some how we all feel better. It frees me.
Although the hardest amends i made was to my ex. He still blames me for everything. I know he doesn't have a program and is still drinking, but I cleaned my side of the street. This one I did without any guidance from my sponsor. Like someone said earlier it freed me of anger, blame, resentment and lust. And I can finally move forward with my new life. But I was pregnant when I did it, and my emotions were not in sinc, and my ex went and told his girlfriend and the whole amends got twisted into something it wasn't. So from now on any amends I make will be discussed with my sponsor. Thanks all for listening and especially for being here.
Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 09:52:41
The whole point of this for me is not feeling better or making others feel better, but rather, getting me in the proper condition to grow spiritually. For two reasons:
1. To have the spiritual awakening, "the result" of these steps.
2. Because the Big book says that there will come a point for every alcoholic when nothing will stand between us and a drink except for a fit spiritual condition!
That is enough for me to be diligent about this business of "working the step".
Member: Chris
Location: Florida
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 15:36:34
Hello all...Chris here-- alcoholic/ addict Making ammends... This has been a good step for me...Whenever I have made ammends, especially with one certain person.. I have felt a freedom..I have felt that at least I have done the best I can do...It cleaned up "my side of the street"..I can't say that my ammends were always recieved well, but that didn't matter because the guilt and resentment were gone...Often with this certain person, it took alot of inner work to admit my wrongs because they never have admitted to their part in our problems. After I made ammends though, I realized that I really did not need their admittance to the wrongs done as much as I needed the inner freedom which comes with cleaning up my side of the street...............I am having a problem now that mabey samone can help me with... I am coming out of a long perion of suffering both physically and relationally...And I seem to be obcessing over all sorts of things.. Last night I had a dream that I had a drink...It sacared me to death in the dream..much less when I woke up...Mabey I just need to hit a lot of meetings and trust that "this too shall pass", and "wait around until the miracle happens". I feel like God is with me in this struggle. I have just never experienced this before in my sobriety, and I was using so much before my sobriety that I was obcessing about that...Oh well thanks everybody for listening...I am greatful for you all.
Member: Chris H.
Location: Colorado
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 15:59:57
Chris here, and as always, an alcoholic. Well Chris from Florida, you are not unique. "If you've done all you can," don't beat yourself up, if you are like me, you have that one down to an art form. Dwelling on my misery is a waste of time. I always try to admit when I am wrong and move on, and that's the best this alcoholic can do.
Drunk dreams have seemed to alert me to the cunning nature and persistence of this disease, and they have kept me on my toes. If we do the program (step work), go to meetings, clean-up wreckage of past and present (this week's topic), continue to work with others, and don't drink today, guess what, you're a success!
Don't forget, you have a right to feel your feelings, you were given those for a reason, and some things just take more time to heal than others (got that advice from a posting a few weeks ago). You have all the answers in your posting. I have been informed that I do not get to control how other people respond to me or my amends, and further, that is not my right, even if I could, because we each have a right to deal with things in our lives, at our own pace and in our own way, as best we can. I was told that the serenity prayer, "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (other people), the courage to change the things I can (myself with plenty of help), and the wisdom to know the difference, is about all I get.
Good Luck!
Member: eileen L
Location: East coast
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 20:20:41
Hi: This is my 1st. I am very new, and have been drinking for many years, too many to mention. I decided just this past Sunday to stop. I'm tired of exercising and constantly watching what I am eating to keep a good figure. I am 50 yrs. old, and would rather drink my calories. I'm sick of it. Give me some input. I really appreciate all of your help. Eileen
Member: eileen L
Location:
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 20:22:05
Member: Lisa LC
Location: Conejo Valley, CA.
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 21:10:35
Hi, my name is Lisa LC and I am an alcoholic and an addict- I haven't been here in this site for a while now. I have been so busy. But I decided to read up here and be reminded of who I am and what I need to be doing. Eileen, welcome! It sounds as if your tired of being sick and tired. But, alcoholics annoyomous is to not pick up that first drink. Worrying about your weight won't help you in this place. IF you want to STOP DRINKING, then your in the right place! Congradulations on your last drink last Sunday, that's GREAT!! Now, just concentrate on meetings, getting a Big Book (ALCOHOLIC'S ANNOYMOUS) and READ it! Listen well in the meetings (try to go to Women's meetings-get a Directory of you local meetings, some churches have them as well as the yellow pages under ALCOHOLIC'S ANNOYMOUS) When your listening to some people share, listen carefully and you'll relate to what is being said. If a woman sharing is really getting your attention and you are really identifying with her, ask her during or after the meeting to help you with being a sponser for you. She will help you. I know, mine has always been a blessing and keeps me on track. When I don't have one, things can get kinda "OFF". And, not drinking, you'll probably loose wieght anyway. But, worrying about that issue is not important right now. LIVING is! And that is not possible if we don't stay sober, at least I know for me this is true!! BIG TIME !!!! Just keep comming back and I hope to talk to you, I really do care. I have been helped and I am so grateful to God for this. I love being sober! My sobriety although has put on quite a bit of weight on me though, but being here and being alive, being a parent is far better than being concerned about my weight. I don't neccessarily like it, but this is what is supposed to be for me and I just have to accept it!! Please, stick around and don't leave before the miracle happens. I promise you this. Keep Comming Back!! As, for the topic, I am glad that this was chosed. I need to be reminded that I have to be on top of the "Amens List", a daily reprieve and review of my day, to see if there is any of my actions to be concerned about. Do I need to make a apology to someone? Did I lash out or say, do or hurt someone? Then this needs to be delt with each and everyday. I need to say sorry, when I have wronged someone, etc. If I don't I am sure to drink/use again and God knows, I don't want to ever do that again!! I pray that I can continue to do, say and act appropriatly at all times, but if I mess up, take care of it right away!! Don't put it off!! Thanks for the topic, I needed to hear this message. Thank you also for allowing me to share, and I feel so good right now, you cannot even imangine!! Sorry though, for taking up so much room here. Bye for now. Eileen, you can email me at LCRMOMX3cs.com if you'd like. Thanks again.
Member: kelly m.
Location: colorado
Date: 20 Oct 1999
Time: 23:43:07
My name is kelly and I have a BIG problem with making amends.I think my pride has a lot to do with it. I am not talking about amends in my steps I mean everyday amends. The fact that I don't go to meetings could be a big part of it.I think I have been to four meetings in the last six months.My life is just so full that I don't know when I can get there. I work full time plus I go to school 4 nights out of the week for four hours a night.I am not saying pity me. I have no excuses. I do like to spend my weekends with my wife and kids but I still could go to an hour long meeting. Most of the time lately I feel like drinking, but I am one of these that to drink is to die and I know that. I have been sober for awhile now and I know what I have to do to stay this way. I don't have a sponsor and I never got past my fourth step(that was two years ago). So where do I go from here? any helpful suggestions?
Member: Art H
Location: Black Hills
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 06:27:10
Yes Kelly, I have a few suggestions, no advice, just stuff I have felt & been through, if it helps fine, if not also fine. I have been sober over 22 years, my AA attendence has been from very good to very bad depending on who you are talking to. You will hear others respond to you by saying "you feel like drinking because" & go on & on about what you need to be doing. For me, when I want I drink or feel like drinking it is simple. I want to get drunk. Unlike others who I have heard say, their "worst day sober is better than their best day drunk", I had allot of good times drunk. I don't today because the short term reward is not worth the long term pain. I agree, to drink could mean to die, but I also believe I could drink today & still be alive the next day. But I don't, because I would not enjoy looking in the mirror the next day.
You say you have excusses for not going to meetings, others might say if you were drinking you would find time to drink. I hear allot of myself in what you say & it sounds like you are putting a lot of guit crap on yourself. Work, School, & FAMILY are all good reasons to be too busy to do something. Meetings are very very important, but not any more so than living your life & filling it up with very good things like work, school, & family. For me the reason I came to AA was because I did not want to drink anymore, not so I could go around & make amends to people, hell if I force myself to do that I would drink, For me AA says I don't have to drink today, that is how I obtain my desire not to drink.
Amends are important, but not if not making them is filling me up with guilt & getting me into I could have, should have, kind of thinking & feeling.
It sounds like you have a great life, I have heard it said & believe it to be true for me that an alcoholic can feel guilty & unworthy, & when he starts to feel happy, the illness will try & take it away by messing with his mind. You helped me by sharing, as I at times feel what you stated you felt. It reminded me that I need to cut myself some slack, stay away from the I should be doing crap.
Member: kelly m.
Location: colorado
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 08:52:46
thank you Art H
Member: Andi
Location: Wausau, WI
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 11:10:35
Amends are not my favorite thing to do. I still have difficulty making direct amends but I know that it is a necessary part of keeping my sobriety in check. I even had a hard time making out my eighth step list. Making direct amends to me is a way that I can finally let go of my fears, resentments etc. I still have an amend to make to my x husband but now is not a good time. My sponsor is working with me on this one because he is really mad at me right now and she thinks it would only cause more harm to try and make an amends now. She also says that I cant take him off of my list because some time down the road here I will get the opportunity to make that amends. I think that is one amends that will help set me completely free. My sponsor says to trust that God will make sure that I know when it is the right time and place and to not be so quick about it. I need to patient; another thing I need to work on. A topic for another day. Oh well thanks for letting me share with all you and thanks for letting me pick the topic last week.
Member: Mary S
Location: texas
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 17:04:06
Member: MARK J
Location: LONDON UK
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 17:42:50
Hi, I'm Mark and I'm an alcoholic.
I know that this message should keep to the subject matter, however as I'm using a handheld Nokia organiser rather than a PC it is not easy for me to access the Coffee Pot before my batteries run out. I am currently in a treatment centre in SW London and have just started using the rooms - I am pleased to find a web facility which will, I am sure be of an additional help when I cannot get to a meeting. Good Luck to all of you
Member: Don B
Location: Alabama
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 19:24:58
Hi, My name is Don, and I'm a drunk. Yes, I know it sounds real bad, but I am. I was sober for over 10 years and I let the fricking demon back into my life. I cannot tell you why. I cannot tell my wife or son why either. I just know that right now I wish I was not here. I feel so low. I want to get some help here. Can anyone please help me? I have been to shrinks and they seem to advocate drugs for depression. Has anyone else gone from being depressed to being "normal" w/o drugs? Please let me know. I have to do something and I cannot continue like I am.
Thanks Don bryandm@ro.com
Member: Patti N
Location: Louisiana
Date: 21 Oct 1999
Time: 21:03:39
Hi, I'm Patti and also a drunk - i thought we all were, Don. Not that we have to at the present to be one. I have seen people slip after 9 and 10 years. I went out after 23 months, but it wasn't a slip, it was intentional and deliberate. I hear people say in meetings that we're writing our own story and that it takes what it takes. you are back seeking something from the group, again. Alcoholism is a desease and the program is one of progression. Welcome BAck!
Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 22 Oct 1999
Time: 08:03:45
The 100, who recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind body and soul..... Laid down what we need to watch for and do in Step 9........
I follow the "BOOK".....it works 100% for me being a type 3 alcoholic.......
Spiritual Experience page 569 it the objective......the path (process) is laid out for me in masterly detail.....
Its not the fellowship, but the program of action......
Member: Tom G
Location: MTN REST SC.
Date: 22 Oct 1999
Time: 08:57:10
Hi im Tom Alcoholic thanks for the topic Jen. When i started making my amends it was stressed to me about the last part where it says them or others. The reason i say this is because there are things in my past that i did that im not proud of that i havent been able to make amends on.And thats OK because of you people and a Loving and caring GOD And a great Sponcer ive done what was sugested to do and my life is great. Thanks PS As we Truge The Road To Happy Destiny.I belive that God Reviels to us more amends because i feel if THIS Alcoholic would have rembered all of the wrongs that I did I dont know if i would have ever got sober.And i truely believe this. Thanks for letting me share. Your friend Tom G.
Member: Sandy S
Location: Western Massachusetts
Date: 22 Oct 1999
Time: 16:16:27
My name is Sandy and I am an alcoholic. I'm new to the Web but have several years of continuous sobriety. I love the 9th step. Each amend I have made has been a different experience and a process -- that it to say I had prepared for the amend with my sponsor and my higher power. The timing has always been in my higher power's time, not my time. Sometimes this is frustrating, but in the end I always learn to trust my higher power and the people in my AA life.
Member: Becky S
Location: Santa Fe. N.M.
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 00:59:38
, Wow this was outrageous to see all the comments from all over the world. I'm new to this web meeting. I'm a recovering alcoholic with a few years and the amends step has been an amazing ongoing experience. God has done for me what I could not do alone, at other times a small voice said it was time for an amends that was the darkest secret I had. My sponsors over the years told me not to make the amends because it would harm the person but I knew it was the right thing to do. It was and the dark secret is gone and the relationship with that person no longer has a wedge of shame and guilt. Now the relationship is one of openess love and mutual support. Sometimes I just need to trust my quiet voice. thanks for being here!Becky
Member: Jerry N. Gret Bender
Location: NEPA
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 01:11:13
I am an alcoholic and my name is Jerry. It's great to be sober today, and I thank all of you for being here to keep me that way. Very good topic, and a lot of good sharing. All the sugestions, following the guide of the BB, working with a sponsor, and reviewing your motives are all right on target. I would like to add a personal experience I had with this step. I was on the phone with my ex-wife's husband, and telling him that I was trying to write a letter of amends to my ex and him, but; I was having difficulty with expressing it. He asked, " Fourth Step, Jerry?" I said " I said no the eighth and ninth steps?" He then replied, " No, I mean the 4th step, have you completed the 4th. Amends can not be truely made until you are able to you are aware of your own part of the situation." I had no idea that this person was familar with our program, but aparrently that is where he met my ex, 11 years before (I didn't know she was in recovery either). It seems that he knew what he was saying, because after I slowed down my recovery and decided to work through the steps with my sponsor, I was able to see "the patterns" of my behavoir by working the 4th step. It was then that I saw my part rather than my actions. ( Fear that coroding thread in the fabrics of our lives). Well, that was about 6 1/2 yrs ago that we had that discussion, and last year, my HP presented me with an opertunity to make amends with my ex. I still have more amends to make with others, but, I stand willing to do so when my HP puts it in my path to do so. I love living sober, and I am grateful to face people without regrets or fear, and I have fewer ghosts that haunt me from the past. I am sorry to share so long, but I would also like to point out that the promises are in the Big Book, following this step and I find it to be true. Thanx all for being here.
Member: Mary H
Location: WI
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 08:26:55
I'm Mary-Alcoholic. I feel that I'm new to the program even tho I've been in and out of it for many years. I know now that I was never really willing to let all of it go and follow the directions that A.A. taught me would work. I also know that I can't continue to live half a life which is what it seems like I do if I don't follow the program. There are many that I feel the need to make amends to. I recently got a sponsor which I never did before and I'm hoping she can help me with this. Shani T.--I would also like to be your pen-pal. I'm 39 and live in Wisconsin. It's cold up here too! E-mail me at mlhem@mwt.net. Live in Hope.
Member: Stacie S
Location: Washington, DC
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 14:11:40
Hi all, Stacie here, I know the topic at hand is the 8th step. But I needed to tell someone right now what is going on my life, before a cloud of denial takes me away to my next drink. I tried to find a physical meeting that was open, but nothing going on until tonight. I've got to write this down or say something to someone right now.. This is an insidious disease. When I went to my first meeting, I was 19. Barely a weekend binge drinker. I stayed sober for five years. Left because I wasn't an alcoholic.. tired of living my life in meetings.. wanted to get a life. Now, 8 years later, I've got quite a life.. a great job, live in a great city, some good friends. But I drink every night and no matter how I fill my life with fun and activity.. I'm absolutely lonely. I'm tired of waking up every morning with a hangover. I'm tired of my mind being mush for most of the day. I'm scared that I will eventually lose my job because of it.. friends are telling me that "I drink too much" All the signs are there.. but what's scary is that I don't know if I will really show up to a meeting this evening. The denial runs so deep and thick. A phrase from the big book keeps coming back to me again and again.. "This is a deadly, progressive disease." I believe it. Stacie..
Member: Tracey H
Location: AZ
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 15:48:24
Stacie, hang in there and get to that meeting tonight! I, too, was under a mistaken impression that I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic--I hadn't gone bankrupt, been arrested, gotten a DUI (amazing in itself), or lost a job, though I came close. I remember too well the hungover mornings/days, the mind being mush, the inconsolable loneliness... I remember congratulating myself on the fact that I never ever went to work under the influence (everyone knows that only alcoholics do that!). Yike. Please, please, PLEASE stick with it. It's worth it.
Thanks to Jen for the topic! I've had my own amends issue for quite a while, and I'd like some feedback, please. I don't trust my own judgement on this. My first "true love" may yet be under the mistaken belief that he has a 14-year-old son or daughter out there somewhere, due to a lie I wrote out of hurt and anger, when I was deep in my addiction. I have long wanted to make amends for the whole mess to him, and that in particular. He has an extremely common name, and my searches on the net have been inconclusive. I have enough information about him that a professional searcher would probably have no problem finding him, and the money to do this is not an issue. Here is the dilemma: Our relationship had malignant, addictive qualities of its own (I took him back three times), and I am nervous about contacting him. I am happily married and have no wish to relive my youth, particularly that part of it, but I AM curious to know whatever became of him, and what he is doing now. It is this curiousity that is giving me pause. I find myself questioning my own motives for wanting to find him, and am afraid of opening up a can of worms that I won't be able to close. Any thoughts?
Many Thanks for letting me share, and for any feedback!
Tracey H
Member: Barbara H
Location: CT
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 17:35:16
Hi, Barbara, alcoholic here. Some of my relationships have been ammended without me saying "I'm sorry",but by a totally different way of interacting which God directs. Lately(four days) I have felt a steady sense of calm amid stressors that used to easily rattle me. My spiritual awakening? I hope it lasts. Tracey h, why not believe that God will help you settle what needs to be settled in time. let go and let God.
Member: Jen P.
Location: Poconos, PA
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 18:32:17
Jen here- alcoholic. Sorry for the double share, but I just wanted to say what wonderful sharing this week and how much you all have helped me. Stacie - I felt the same way. I would sit on the couch and watch the time for the meeting pass by, and cry. I had to get down on my knees and ask for the strength to get me there, and then I went!! I can really identify with your drinking too. My life now is so much better. I hope you will get there, and stay.
Tracy, you have good insight on yourself. If you are questioning your motives, I would ask my sponsor and hold off. Your honesty is admirable. Thanks for sharing that. You helped me.
Member: Del M.
Location: Seattle
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 18:38:18
Wow, Great Topic, Del M. Here Thanks for brining up some thing I was taught from the first Amends dosn't mean picking up the phone saying sorry checks in the mail. Well I was a Crosscountry Truck driver for 27 years and there sure was going to be a lot of traveling, Till My Sponcer pointed out Made direct amends where Possible. As I have truged down the path "Realy more like walking and enjoying the roses" HP has placed me where I am able to make the amends were they should be made. An Thank you Albequerkie, nice to see someone knows where the solutition is.
Member: Mark W
Location: Western Maine
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 19:11:58
Hi my name is Mark and I'm an alcoholic. I didn't know I had included this site on my favorites list. I live in a remote area for AA meetings and finding rides has been all but futile. I lost my license and depend on others for rides right now. I've never been in a part of the country where its been this difficult to find rides. That aside its great to know this meeting is here. I've tried to get to a meeting all day-no luck-because I've needed to talk to someone about an issue that's got me in a bad place. I need to see a doctor on Mon. because of an injury, the problem is that he'll give me pain killers if I ask. I dually addicted, and only a few wks. sober this time. I know what the sober thing to do is certainly, but the demons of stinking thinking have me planning a slip. Its been very difficult for me without meetings on a regular basis, I've asked people to sponsor me, and those I've thought would be right for me can't for one reason or another. Thanks for being here, I needed to get this off my chest whether I do the right thing on Mon. or not.
Member: Rusty M
Location: Toronto
Date: 23 Oct 1999
Time: 20:59:58
Hi Rusty here and I'm an alcoholic. I've only been in the program 3 1/2 months and I'm having a tough time tonight. I called my best friend and temporary sponsor earlier just after I got up from a nap. Her s/o answered and I asked to speak to her. When she got on the phone I said 'Hi' and she immediately asked if I'd been drinking and immediately in the background her s/o said 'that's what I thought'. I was stunned and I hung up the phone. I haven't touched a drink since July 4 and have no intentions of doing so, I've attended 6 - 7 meetings per week since I first walked through the doors but tonight I couldn't (wouldn't?) go to a meeting. I called her back but just got her answering machine. The message I left stating that she had hurt me but I wasn't mad at her I was upset at her s/o for stating his opinion so quickly. My hurt is overwhelming but I had to make the call back to her.
on the topic of making amends, I've tried to call my sister, but she won't return my calls. I've talked to most of the people who were targeted by my bottle and my sister is the only person left to make amends with.
My lack of ambition to go to my meeting tonight brought me here. I still need to vent and I've read all the comments with great interest. But may I say to Bill L of Australia, newcomers like myself who are trying to attempt so much in so little time can't truly comprehend the Big Book, let alone read the entire Book all at once. There are too many gremlins in my head and your stating which page to read is a great help.
To Stacie S. I know how you feel. I'm just starting a new job on Monday after being unemployed since January due to not my drinking but to memory loss because of it (unbeknownst to me) I drank for lonliness in my home, never outside, I never drove while drinking and even my grown boys never knew how much I drank until I tried the suicide attempt in January which resulted in the temporary loss of seeing my 6 month old grandson. That was the biggest hurt of all. I still cannot see him by myself and it's starting to bother me all over again. I still feel I have no friends because they are all in the program and by this one single statement of my best friend has sent me reeling.
Thank you for letting me vent.
Member: Tom D
Location: Sydney, Australia
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 07:51:13
My name is Tom, and I am an Alcoholic; Making Amends - one of the toughest and most frightening parts of the program to the newcomer - at first we are terrified that we Won't Do It Right. What I found (it worked for me) was either that the occasion arose where it was absolutely obvious that my Higher Power had put the right person and me together in the right circumstances for "it" (the making of whatever amends were appropriate) to happen - I have to say that the usual response was along the lines of "Oh, I forgave you for that long ago, and the great thing is to see you well and happy"; or my Sponsor (trust your sponsor - believe it) told me that it was high time I did something about what I had done to whoever-it-was, NOT to make ME feel good, NOT as a penance, but because the thing had to be done. But keep it simple - the three-act-opera apology might be an embarrassment to the amendee, and that is as bad as a hurt. This has been working for me (one day at a time, easy does it, all those little mottoes I used to hate) for twenty years; none of the people I hurt, and later apologised to, killed me (although two of them said that at one time they would have!). There will be one exception to this suggestion - if any of you retired drunks out there (do not be insulted - the only person I can call an Alcoholic is me, and I am nothing more than an old retired drunk) needs to make amends to me, just do it by praying for me and the wonderful family I now have. I love you all, and I thank God that you are all there. Blessings, in abundance.
Member: John{J,L,}
Location: Newark.De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 07:52:32
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
Member: John, {J.L}
Location: Newark,De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 07:56:15
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
Member: J.L.
Location: Newark.De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 08:02:30
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
sorry if this keeps reappearing but i'm trying to post it as a topoic,instead as a obituary
Member: John.L (J.L.)
Location: Newark.De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 08:05:39
Discussion Meeting October 17 - 23, 1999 The format for this meeting is a week long Topic Discussion. We ask that all sharing in this meeting be limited to the topic as it relates to your alcoholism and that each person try to share only once per week (this is not a chat room)
Please read the Posting Instructions before continuing.
Discussion Meeting - Alternative View Since some members experienced difficulty viewing this page due to the length and size, we have created an alternative view (black & white - no graphics), and recommend using it if you are having any problems.
First One Here ?
Then start the meeting with a topic of your choice. Please compose a topic that is related to alcoholism.
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Member: Jen P. Location: Poconos, PA Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 00:31:20
Comments Jen here-alcoholic. Perhaps we could hear about timing, guidance, and prudence in making amends. I am going into a situation where I will have the chcance to see someone who has been on my amends list, and I am willing. I don't think it would harm her or anyone else I can think of. My sponsor says I will know if this is the time. How about this for a topic?
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Member: Todd P Location: Indpls. IN Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 02:04:04
Comments Wow!! What a topic. Todd, alcoholic here. This is probably the part of the program that i have the hardest time with. I dont think there is ever a bad time to make an amends unless its never. I always try to talk any amends, that i do, over with my sponcer first. I know that in order for me to grow and overcome my dificulties that i must first make an honest effort to clean up the wreckage of my past. This is when I know that the promises will start to come true in my life. Thanks for the topic.
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Member: Bill. L. Location: Gold Coast Australia Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 03:19:33
Comments Hi,Bill L here,good topic but I was taught early on that you don't make amends because it makes you feel good !!! You make amends because they ought to be made!!!! I don't think timing comes into it, if no one is going to be hurt, just do it.
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Member: Albuquerque John Location: in transit Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 04:07:57
Comments There was a posting last week on this topic in answer to a question from TSA in Roche NY.
The answers are STILL all in the Big Book pages 77-84 beginning with line 18 page 77.
Page 83 lines 19-28 should answer your question. Lines 25-28 will give more information. The Big Book is clear on this matter of timing.
Having made amends to a particular person there is no longer the need to have fear of that person and it removes the guilt and remorse. Thus we make amends to ourselves, probably the most important part of Step 9, enabling us to go forward and ask ourselves "Are the promises on page 84 being fulfilled in my life and if not why not?"
It is important for me to emphasise this – nowhere in the Big Book does it say you have to make amends to everyone all at once. It can be a gradual steady process in which you make amends to one person at a time. Nowhere in the Big Book does it say you have to begin by making amends to the people you most despise or the ones you have hurt most deeply. We are free to start with the easiest names on the list and gradually work though to the toughest. My experience is that each person I make amends to helps give me the courage and compassion to make amends to the next person on the list, but if at any point courage and compassion fail, I have to pray to my Higher Power for help and guidance.
As I began and saw the benefits that come from making amends I became more willing to make amends to everyone I have harmed.
The question is “Can I find peace of mind and happiness and stay sober if I don’t make amends?” My experience is that the answer is “No, I can’t”.
If we work the first nine steps fully and sincerely then every one of the promises on page 84 will come true. The promises never fail, they will always come true if we work for them – not sometimes, not most of the time, but EVERY time. The Big Book guarantees this on lines 14-15 on page 84. I guarantee it too.
Vaya con Dios
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Member: Mae M. Location: Narrowsburg, N. Y. Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 08:47:39
Comments Hi, Mae here, thanks again Jen for the topic. Thanks to you too Albuquerque John, for quoting the big book so well. I always admire people who can quote the big book. I have 32 years in the program, and have read and reread the big book many many times, but can not quote any of it. However I do try to live by it one Day at a time, still. My sponsor told me when I came in that when it was time to make amends the people would appear. That happened, and I did. She also said that when I started to become uncomfortable with people I needed to make amends to, and they were available, then it was time to make amends to whoever that particular person was. I was one of the lucky ones no one ever rebuffed me. All my amends were accepted. Even by people who didn't know I had to make amends to.. Like the friend I babysat for and drank from her private liquor cabinet, and then filled the bottle with water. Nevermind that I was drinking while I was babysitting. She was great about it. She was one of those people that you call a social drinker. She could have a drink in front of her for a whole party, AND NOT EVEN SIP FROM IT. I know because she and her friend were the first couple (outside of aa) that I decided I wanted to spend my first sober New years with. At that time I still thought everyone drank like me. ha ha She taught me different, and it was a very comfortable sober New Year. It was however the last one I celebrated outside of AA. All the rest were celebrated with AA friends and in AA rooms Whoops sorry got carried away. thanks for listening.
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Member: Shelly W Location: Arkansas Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 09:55:14
Comments Good morning this is Shelly and I am alcoholic. Making amends was and still is one the toughest things I had to learn to do. When I first entered this program I had no use for this step and was determined to slide right past it without anyone knowing. Well as time went on I realized that making the amends was not something I had to do for the other person but it was for my well being and I had to do it if I had any intentions of staying sober. It would allow me to release the guilt, fear, anger, resentment or whatever I held inside of me about that particular person or situation.
There are a few people on my 8th step list that I cannot make direct amends to because it would certainly hurt them and others. So in that case I have made indirect amends by praying for them and asking God's forgiveness. Maybe one day things will change and I will have the opportunity to make them directly but for now the injury to them would be too great. This is where it is very important for us not to just run off and start making amends without giving it some very careful thought and consideration.
The most meaninful amend for me was to my ex husband. It was one of those amends that I just did not want to make because I felt he had hurt me deeply by leaving our marriage. But after some very deep soul searching I realized that I did my part too by making him totally miserable for many years. I finally made the direct amend to him and he totally refused it and rejected me. That is when I learned that making the amend released me of the ball and chain that I carried with that persons name on it. I did my best and that is all I can do. Today I no longer carry the guilt, fear, anger etc. because I know in my heart that I did what I needed to do to make things right.
Once again thank you for letting me share with all of you this morning. I am looking foward to reading other comments this week and participating next week.
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Member: JCP ^\^ Location: Penn's Woods Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 12:11:46
Comments J here, a grateful alcoholic:
Good topic for me, Jen, not my strong suit, amends. Then Albuquerque comes along throwing the book at me--don't take it wrong, Al, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm talking about me and amends which sometimes don't come easy.
We're not talking mere apology (as explained in the Big Book). We're talking about "mending" or fixing or undoing. I'll never forget my first shots at this: I phoned the top of my list, said just enough for voice recognition and listened to the hangup click. Checked off one amend!
My biggest individual rewards from A.A. without doubt are that my son and brother have come into the program, even though A.A. did this itself. Actually, it was beyond my dream how our Higher Power could spread through the family in several cities and free the younger tiers from the alcoholic lives we grew up in.
But I didn't cause it. I merely had my brother on the phone, when he said, "Come on down here and we'll pop a few cans and talk this thing over." I said, "I'd like to come down but I don't pop cans anymore." He said, "You what!" Six months later I find out he's in A.A.; not only that, he's correcting me on everything.
For you, happily, it may be different. But hey, for me this is comparing how they will feel about an amends attempt to all those times I could not even remember what I did, even though I hardly ever doubted what they said. So try asking, and your higher power just might have help you never dreamed of.
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Member: Kay Location: Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 13:52:56
Comments Thanks Jen for an interesting topic. I too need to work on making many amends. I take it one day at a time. Rather than regretting what I did when I was drinking, I thank God every day for helping me live my life today. I don't make it a point to make amends, necessarily, but when the time comes. I think I'll be ready. AA has helped me through many tough times, and through the advice of sober-cyber AAers, I think we'll all learn to live life to the fullest and, most of all, learn how to forgive ourselves.
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Member: Rick S. Location: B.C. NV Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 18:07:56
Comments Hello my name is Rick and I am still an alcoholic... making amends for me was a learning experience. I read the "suggestions" in the big book and as usuall interpretted them in my own all knowing way. So I started contacting people and telling them I was "sorry" OKFINE...that step was done! whew! Then as usual life started teaching me what the suggestions really meant. As was stated earlier amends are to relieve us of guilt, anger, resentment, lust, ect... so that we may move on to being of maximum service to God and others. I found out that when I said I was "sorry" to someone, they would say "that's OK don't worry about it". This was heard by me as "I didn't mind so you can do it again"! Today I try very hard not to do anything I will have reason to appoligize for later. In other words I ask for Gods advice before the shit hits the fan... I also found the hardest, yet most rewarding (for growth) was to myself. I also have found, from experience that when it was time to make a needed amends the people reappeared in my life. God works...some times in the strangest of ways. Seee Yaaa !!!
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Member: Mike N Location: Colorado Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 19:44:19
Comments Hi this is Mike, We'll I've been drinking for quite awhile now, just realize over 17 years. Started when I was in the military and continue ever since. I don't really see myself as an alcoholic, but my wife thinks I am and need help. You are probably saying yea everyone says that at first. My excuses are I dont drink everyday, but when I usually get together with friends, I usually cant control my drinking and have way to much and end up driving home. I'm really lucky I haven't killed anyone yet or myself. I took the test and scored a definite yes to being an alcoholic. That seems like such a hard word to get use to. My wife threaten to leave me for the second time this last episode, I got really scared and told her I do have a problem and I would seek help. I found the your web site and been reading the articles, haven't made it to a meeting yet, thought I would try this. Amend, well I guess I trying to amend things up with my wife by signing on to the site, by the way I haven't drank it almost a week, again my challenge will be when I get together with friends if I should drink or not.
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Member: Gabrielle P. Location: Mansfield, TX. Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 20:26:19
Comments Hi Gabrielle Grateful, Recovering alcoholic here! Thank you Jen for this topic it hits home for me. I thought making amends was just telling people I was was sorry. When I went to do my first amends I worked with my sponser and did three steps. I asked my Higher Power to forgive me, I forgave myself and then set about asking forgiveness from the person I had harmed. I to ended up with some "It's okay, don't worry," and I told them that wasn't what I was after. I truely needed them to forgive me and believe that whatever I had done was causing me internal pain and to be released I needed them to accept my amends. I couldn't and still can't make amends to some people because I don't remember or I haven't seen them. but I have forgiven my self and am ready to make amends to them. I believe the greatst amends I have made is to my parents. For the first time I can tell them that something hurts me and they understand that even though they may not have meant it to hurt that that is how I took it. It is a great feeling to be able to be honest and get an honest answer. Today the neighbors dog got to my sheep. It severly hurt one and we can't find the other one. We called the police, this is the third time we have called because of their dogs being loose. They don't care about their animals the same way I do and so we didn't feel talking to them would help. I feel badly for those people they don't understand my pain and that must be a terrible way to live. I try to live right and do things the right way and I guess some people can't grasp what that means. Anyway thanks for letting me share. In Sobriety, In A.A., In Life!
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Member: Patti N Location: Louisiana Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 20:31:21
Comments Hi, Patti - alcohol. I drink like Mike and it took more research after 22 1/2 months sober to find that out. I'm one of the lucky ones who made it back. The first time I didn't have a complete 1st step so my making amends wasn't a great success. I am now on step 8, have 87 days and am miserable. I haven't drank miraculously - just an alcoholic without my medicine. God has kept me sober and my sponsor and the book tell me that the promises will begin to be revealed as I do my 9th step. I am not looking forward to making amends - I'm scared - but if that's what it takes for me to live in my own skin without drinking I will keep asking God to help me to keep showing up for the work. My sponsor is tough and I have faith that she through God's help with lead me through it. Today is Sunday and I'm feeling a little spirtitual. Although I've been praying alot for the past several weeks, i haven't felt very protected, but I know that I'm staying sober on my own. So as Chris R. says "Bring on the Pain!" It can't be worse than this!
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Member: Big John M. Location: Modesto, CA Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 22:35:09
Comments Hi,everyone. I'm John, a real alcoholic. Good topic and good discussion! As Albuquerque said, (first time I ever wrote that word; driven through it a few times but never wrote it before) all the guidance we need is in the Big Book. Like some others before me, I am guilty of not following the suggestions given us during the first 11 years of my 16 years in the Program. The result of my customizing THE Program into MY Program is that I now have 5+ years of continuous daily sobriety instead of 16 years. Today I follow THE Program to the best of my ability, and, by the Grace of God, I have been relieved of the compulsion to drink for quite a while now. I have been making amends since I truly surrendered 5 years ago and still have some to make. They will occur when it is time; His time, not mine, as the ones left are ones without a way to get in touch, or, address unknown, etc. I too, started with the easiest and gradually worked my way toward the most difficult. And, as the gentleman from that place in New Mexico said, the Promises have come true in my life today. I have been given so many gifts in sobriety, from the ability to truly experience life as it is, to just the fact that I am alive, today! What a miracle! Thank you all out there, and Thank my Higher Power, God, for all that I have today; especially all the learning and growth opportunities (difficulties or challenges) I have had in sobriety. Good night and God Bless!
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Member: Tamara M. Location: AZ Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 22:59:46
Comments On making amends. I wish I could spend as much time on making amends as I do thinking about the dumb stuff I've done to require the amends! Why is it so hard to say "I'm sorry"? I know that for myself, my pride kept me from asking for help when I needed it. That and the false thinking that I could handle this (addiction) by myself. I've learned how valuable friends are by sharing in meetings and asking for help when I feel myself slipping. I don't want to alienate any more friends, my sponsor or my family. Most drinkers/druggers are solitary and secretive in their using. We also have a lot of false pride. These days I try to do what feels right and admit when I'm wrong. Admitting we're only human and having a sense of humor about this life help too.
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Member: James Lupp Location: Montrose, Colorado Date: 17 Oct 1999 Time: 23:45:34
Comments My names is James, and I'm an alky. The first amends I made, strange as it sounds, was to myself. I didn't pick up the first drink. As long as I didn't pick up the first drink, the DUI's stopped, puking and crapping at the same time every morning stopped and the attitude got real different. The amends progressed from there.
I walked through the steps with my sponsor. God took it from there. Every thing after the third step was on God's time. Walking up to those people in the spirit of setting things right is not James' way of doing things. I didn't really care if I got anything out of it. I was just tired of living the way I was living and tired of being left out. That self-made prison I lived in was hell!
The "I'm sorries", I knew wouldn't fill the bill. That was more a statement of character(or lack of), but not the admission of my wrongs, or a statement of my role and responsibilities for the problems that were of my own making.
I am grateful for this step which took me out of my prison and gave a rebirth to my relationship to others. Especially my relationship to God. He gets all the credit for any and all sucesses in my life today. Thanks for sharing about this step and all steps. In the Fellowship of the Spirit JamesL. drop a line anniel@ocinet.net
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Member: anonymous Location: in a meeting evryday! Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 00:06:15
Comments God made people with cracks, or defects of character to let the light in!
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Member: A.M.M Location: Pa Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 02:15:44
Comments thanks so much for all the good things ive read tonite.ive been trying so hard to stay sober lately,i have about 16 months sober,w/a 16 month old daughter,my hhusband just left me. thank god for my sponsor&suppurt group.!!! i hope everything goes well for everyone that sent mail to this session.if anyone is up please do me a favor give some gratitude for me,i know it could bee alot worse,icould be out there drinking and drugging. i know what i have now i willlose everything,i know thhat,but it is so hard to deal with the feelings that im not used to dealing with lately. i do have my higher power w/me witch i do thank everyday and night for another day sober. if anyone is up or if not everyone have a good day and night, GOD BLESS!!!GOODLUCK!PEACE!
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Member: Fred M Location: MD Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 06:55:01
Comments I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic.
MIKE N: I am you, friend. Retired military. Drank by myself and with buddies for 17 years, then with wife about to leave, I saw the light. Only you can decide if you are an alcoholic. I decided I was (and am). The signs were: daily drinking and frequent heavy drinking, life falling apart (wife about to leave), routinely driving drunk, and constant feelings of worthlessness. If any of this hits close to home, you may be in the right place. I recently started attending face to face meetings and highly recommend it. I went it alone in sobriety for many years and only recently discovered the great value of being able to talk to people who totally understand my problems.
Ammends: In my early sobriety, I looked at it as a phase I had to get through. I made a list of those I hurt and called or wrote them to tell them I was sorry and was trying to clean up my act through the 12 steps. They mostly forgave me. Over the years, I realize that taking inventory and making amends is a daily step that I must continuously repeat. I make daily amends to God through prayer and daily living, to my wife and kids through love and caring, to self through forgiveness and recognition of my self worth and goodness. To me, this daily "recycling" of the steps and self-monitoring is the essence of the program of AA.
Thanks for letting me share. God go with Mike N and the other newcomers. Love, Fred
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Member: Shani T Location: U.K Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 07:59:25
Comments I would really like to gain a pen pal from the USA. I am currently going through a separation and am finding life difficult. I have been sober for 17 years and am 39 years old. I may come over to the USA when this is settled, for approx 3 months. My intention is to have some 'healing time' which I hope to spend with my brothers and sisters in A.A. I will probably want to go to Arizona or somewhere else that it hot.. it is so cold and dull here in the U.K. I hope desperately to hear from someone. Very much love in fellowship.
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Member: Terri S. Location: Wis. Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 09:18:30
Comments Good Morning every body, A Grateful Alcoholic here i would like to welcome the New Comers to the A.A. Family. Steps 8&9 when i went over this with my sponsor i learned is actly what i was apoligizing for & did so, so i could get rid of the guilt like everyone else. Thank God the steps are here to help us not hurt us, i had to learn that first. on the first step.i'm very happy God has a sense of humor too.if i want to make my God laugh is all i have to do is perdict the out come of events or what ever. i'am new at the computer world so please bear with me.Shai T. im 38yrs old & would love to be your pin pal.email me at tcsiler@win.bright.net Big John you sound like some one i'm very good friends with in Fla. were i got sober before i moved to Wis. God Bless you all each & everyone
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Member: Robert B Location: Boise Idaho Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 09:33:55
Comments Hi. I'm Robert and I am an alcoholic.
My first sponsor took me through the steps. In order to keep my selfishnes and self-serving traits out of the process he had me write each amend on my 8th step list on a 3x5 card, and draw a card at random, then make that amend. Another thing was there were amends owed to people whose identity are unknown, and there were societal amends, where I had harmed by creating a public nuisance. I make those amends by anonymous public service.
Finally, it has been pointed out to me that crucial to the amends process is to amend the old behaviors... it is not enough to make restitution and apologize, If I continue in the same old mode of dysfunction.
Peace Robert
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Member: Tim V Location: Poconos, PA Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 11:19:29
Comments We have no dues or fees, but we do have expenses for this server and the domain registery. Please visit "Pass the Hat" and help carry the message (AA members only).
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Member: Barb W. Location: Dayton, OHIO Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 12:34:44
Comments Hi Everybody, I'm Barb, I'm alcoholic. Just a note to say that when I was ready to make amends, it was like this: "When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear." Many things have occurred like this over the 15 years+ that I have been rendered sober. Job opportunities, friends, growth, marriage, amends, and life. Nothing good comes from drinking/drugs-nothing. God has a wonderful way of getting my attention when he needs to. Life is good without booze and drugs-really good. It's not easy, but life is full. I remember when it was so empty.
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Member: Tedd T. Location: Omaha, NE Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 15:04:31
Comments Hi, I'm Tedd and I'm an alcoholic.
This is a good topic, because it makes me think, who do I need to make amends with? Well to start off, I still need to make amends with my parents. Everyday, since they picked me up in the police station, I either thank them and apologize to them, in person or through God, but to me it's still not enough. They have put up with a lot of stuff from me, but this was bad. They gave their time and money without question, just to get me out of trouble and to get me help. I used to drink on a daily basis, I used to wonder what else there was to do. I used to think that Omaha was a horrible town, because there was nothing to do. The truth is, everything takes money, and I had none, because all of it was going to my alcohol problem. Now I do have money, and I can only hope that my parents will forgive me for the pain and worry I have caused them.
Thanks again for the topic. This is the first time I've come to this site, and I must say, thanks for letting me speak my mind.
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Member: Gary M Location: Menlo Park, CA Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 15:48:29
Comments Hi, I'm Gary, I'm an alcoholic. The first mistake I made when I came into AA, was to make ammends to quickly. I did a 9th step with my wife, with about 6 weeks soriety. By the Grace of God, we are still togehter, however it took her 3 years ot forgive me. Soon after that I got a sponosr, his advise to me, always take God with you. Another thing he told me, the steps are in order for a reason. Don't know if this helps, but it is what occured to me.
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Member: Tom A. 7/25/60 Location: Carlisle, AR Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 17:38:06
Comments Good Afternoon!
My name is Tom A. a grateful sober alcoholic today by the grace of a wonderful Higher Power and this fellowship we call A.A.
Thank you Jen P. in Poconos, PA for this stimulating topic it has indeed produced many helpful posts. I am an old timer in this fellowship and I am amazed how much I learned about staying sober during my first year in the program. I was told that this is a Suggested Program of Recovery and to use what works for me one-day-at-a-time. One of my early sponsors told me to ask myself this question before any action on my part. "How will this effect my sobriety?" I find this to be very helpful when dealing with AMENDS. I for one believe that it a never ending process, but this program has given me to tools for knowing about "timing, guidance and prudence" in making amends.
Welcome to all who post on Staying Cyber's Discussion Group and especially the NEWBIE's!
Enjoy Your Sobriety Today!
God Bless - Tom A. ate@gte.net
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Member: Nikki B Location: Poconos, PA Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 18:03:01
Comments Hi everyone, I'm Nikki and I'm an alcoholic. From the understanding that I have in this program is that our Higher Power, puts the people into our lives when it is time to make amends. We have to feel the uncomfortability in ourselves and then we know it is the right time to do it.
We can only do the right thing when we feel it is the right time. I have made some amends with the people on my list and it is do to damage that I have done in their life, not to make myself feel better. Even tho' after making the amends there is a relief that more reckage from my past has been put behind me.
Thanks for letting me share.
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Member: Pattw/2tees Location: Oregon Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 21:14:08
Comments Thank you for the topic, Jen, and thanks to all for sharing. Patt, grateful recovering alcoholic, sober today by the grace of God and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
My first amends were to my husband and children and I made them early on in my sobriety, but after I had taken the fourth step, a bit previous, but I needed to do it for me. I had run it by my sponsor and told her that I was feeling the push to do it. She gave me the go-ahead, and I did make the amends to each and every one of them--separately and individually. What a relief!
I must always remember what my motive is in making amends, also. I was anxious to make amends to a former boss to whom I had really given the short end of the stick when I was working. Had been going through marital hell at the time and was really worthless as an employee, but he was very understanding and patient. My sponsor said to wait for the right time, and if my Higher Power wanted me to put things right with this person, He would give me the setting for the amends. One day I ran into my former boss while we were both crossing a parking lot on foot, and I was able to tell him what I had done. He looked astonished and said, "Patt, you didn't have to do that, I understand." I replied, "Jim, I had to do it for ME to feel better." He said thank you and we climbed into our respective cars and left. I can tell you that I'll never feel uncomfortable around that man again thanks to this program.
The best amend I can make to anyone is to maintain my sobriety--that's what I, my husband, children and friends want, and I hope that's what I can do, one day at a time.
Thanks for letting me share. Blessings on us all. "Trust God, clean house, help others." Patt
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Member: Michael B. Location: AZ Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 23:35:57
Comments Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic, sober today only by the grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! And thanks everyone for sharing!
As a rule, I think making amends should not be done without the guidance of a sponsor or spiritual advisor. During my first months of sobriety, I failed to listen to advice about amends and tried to make an amends to an ex of mine. She told me to take a hike.
With more sobriety under my belt, I took the AA suggestions more seriously and worked closely with my sponsor. Nothing like what happened with my ex happened again. In fact, I eventually did make amends to her and we get along well today. More importantly, working with my sponsor, I was able to get an objective perspective on things, and he was able to offer input into when, where, and if I should make amends to someone.
So for those of you making amends for the first time (actually anytime), I suggest you work with a sponsor or spiritual advisor when preparing to make amends.
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Member: Jan P Location: Salem, MA Date: 18 Oct 1999 Time: 23:37:40
Comments Amends? My name is Jan and I'm an alcoholic, sober today through the Grace of God. I have been 29 years sober and drug free and I am 58 years old. When I came into the program for the last time my whole life was a mess. My parents, my ex-husband, even my AA aquaintances were all sick and tired of me and my "performances". I was not allowed to see my two little girls, and I had no one human being who was there for me. My only choice was to grab hold of the Higher Power and not let go. Like one of the earlier commenters said, "when the pupil is ready the teacher will appear". My teacher was an old timer who explained the disease of alcoholism to me in a way that removed my guilt about being an alcoholic. Like every newcomer I had multiple problems -- he told me to go AA all the way -- me and God and a sponsor would get the job done. I told him about the wreckage of my past, and how none of these people would even speak to me and how could I make amends to them. His answer? "When the time is right, God will put these people in touch with you. Meanwhile, there are eight other steps that come before the ninth, and you are still on the first three." So, I trusted that one other human being, and he never gave me a bad steer. He also told me that when God was ready for me to see my daughters I would see them, and I would have the opportunity to make whatever amends were possible. He was right. It took three years before I was able to see my girls, and another five before they began to trust me a little. Today, we have a loving relationship, thanks to God and AA. I have four children altogether, three of them are in recovery. The fourth was born during my fifth year of sobriety, and what a difference! I thought I was incapable of being a parent, but I found out that it was not true. Like Jack, my mentor, told me, the disease lies to us, tells are we are "less than" and "unworthy of". Once sober and on the steps to recovery, we react and function much like those "normal" people out there (even though we should remember that we will NEVER be "normal" -- normal people can drink). Thank you all for being here. I enjoyed reading your comments, and I appreciate the chance to share my experience, strength and hope with all of you.
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Member: Jo Location: Arizona Date: 19 Oct 1999 Time: 00:07:42
Comments We make amends to clean off our side of the street. That is our responsibility.
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Member: Jim Samuelson Location: Madison, AL Date: 19 Oct 1999 Time: 10:05:25
Comments My name is Jim Samuelson, and I am an Alcoholic
When I had my list of amends and had discussed them with my sponsor / spiritual advisor, I was reminded that I was to “Make direct amends to those people we have harmed, wherever possible. Except when to do so would injure them or others.” The primary points that he had me consider were first the capability to make direct amends, then we discussed the meaning of wherever possible vice whenever, and finally we looked at the potential for injury to others.
Since an amend is far more than just another apology or promise to be good or do better, these steps should not be taken lightly. I have learned that an amend is a total change in how I deal with these passed wrongs, so that I will never again do those things that are objectionable to myself and others. Therefore, the easiest amends to directly make were those associated with financial considerations. I learned to pay my rent and bills on-time, balance my checkbook, and over a considerable period cleanup the financial wreckage. I also learned that just going to work and giving my employer an honest days effort for a day’s pay was in itself an amend. More personal amends required a different approach and a better understanding the meaning of “wherever possible.” Over the passed eighteen years I have made direct amends wherever possible, When I walked into my Father’s house seven months sober I was where I needed to be to make amends to my family. By staying sober I have proven to them I meant what I said. Last year while on a business trip I happened to meet an old relationship which I had mistreated – I spent nearly an hour with her making my amends.
Some people that I owe amends to, I have never spoken to directly and I probably never will. There are to many people I never knew that I stole from, or connived, or lied to, or manipulated. My amends to them is to stay sober and to not steal, connive, lie, or manipulate. There are also the women that I spent time with that had husbands of their own. I cannot put them at risk to salve my guilt – therefore I stay sober and I don’t sleep around with other men’s wives.
This is my experience, strength, and hope on making amends "wherever possible." It was vital for me to go through these steps and to be prepared to suffer the consequences of our actions. But I do not have to do this alone. I need to discuss it with a sponsor or spiritual advisor that has the experience of having worked steps 8 & 9 and then ask the support of my God.
Thank you for letting me share.
Read the Book.
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Member: Joe C Location: Scottsdale Date: 19 Oct 1999 Time: 10:36:33
Comments Much of my drinking came as a result of my ignorance when it came to the treatment of others and myself. I drank as a means of not feeling the guilt, pain, fear or any other general emotion that came as a result of my actions or non-actions. I therefore had to amend the damage done to others and myself in order to live in peace with myself; which I did painstakingly with the assistance of my sponsor.
Does that mean that I have become perfect now. Absolutely not. I have had to add names to my 8th step list over these years in sobriety and have tried very hard to quickly and directly amend any damage I may have caused. I have hurt people in sobriety and have had to make amends to them but the difference today is that I know that I did not intentionally cause the harm and I am much more willing to amend it.
I think I may owe an amend to a friend I just wrote to on the coffee pot. If so, it is fine with me because the words I spoke were not meant to harm but rather help. However, I still may have hurt her feelings and that will require the amend. I am rambling now so I will end here.
Thank you for letting me share again this week.
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Member: tech Location: cyberia Date: 19 Oct 1999 Time: 21:31:41
Comments test
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Member: Tony A Location: Crowsnest,PA Date: 19 Oct 1999 Time: 21:57:26
Comments Hi Family, Tony Apollo, alcoholic. Thanks for the topic Jen. When I first starting making amends my grand sponsor, a long timer, said I should start at home and work my way out from there. It was good for me to be spiritually guided by my H.P. I need some help and strength to make a decsion like this in my life. Timing is important. But when the time arises. DoIT! You may not get a second chance. Sometimes we will just run into people by no coincedence. Ask your H.P. to help you do the next right thing. How great it feels to clean up the past and live in the present. Love you all, Your Friend Tony A.
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Member: Joann E Location: Wyo Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 01:56:59
Comments Hi Im Joann Im Alcoholic This My Frist Meeting On The Internet. But I go to meetings all the time. Thisis cool and I've got a lot out of reading everyones experience on Amends. But Mike I feel in my experience that AA Face to Face Meeting would Keep Me More in reality Because your watching them share. People sharing there experience,strenght,hope.So keep comming back. Your in my prayers.
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Member: Ruth E Location: PA Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 02:11:37
Comments Hi, I am Ruth E. recovering alcoholic. I have almost 7.5 yrs clean & sober by the grace of my higher power. I just located this site, and am happy to see it here. Thanks for a thought-provoking topic. Making amends frightens me. I actually have made some amends, but they were not the face-to-face amends. There were a great number of people I endangered during my addiction, and these are people I will likely never see again in this life. If I did see them, it might cause harm to someone should I tell them how impaired I was when we had our interactions. So, by staying sober and doing my job to the best of my ability, helping people as much as I can, I hope to make amends to these nameless others from my past. As for individuals, I try to make amends as they re-appear in my life. However, I still have this ego!! I hate to admit I was wrong! And, too often, when admitting wrong or accepting blame, I fall easily into the "victim" stance. Then I am afraid I have undone the amends. Boy, do I need HP help with this one. Thanks for letting me share.
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Member: Ron S Location: upstate N.Y. Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 03:09:46
Comments Hi I'm Ron and I'm an alcoholic! In the little black book some time around September I believe,it gives what they call the short version of the steps. I can't remember all of them but what stuck in my head was this, they refered to steps 8&9 as the restitution steps (restitution-payback) this is where we earn our seats this is where we pay our dues. I don't believe I earned my seat in A.A. because I was a drunk I believe the people who came before me earned this seat for me and I hope that I can continue the tradition of one drunk helping another. Well PAYBACK is a B_____ well we know what that is, and what goes around comes around but it doesn't have to go any further. The problem with payback is it is necessary and we don't have control over how much or how long. Someone mentioned the promises they come after the 9th step in the Big Book. All those people all that stuff I just don't have to do it any more it's not about saying I'm sorry its about LIVING the APOLOGY. So say Your Sorry where and when You can. Be an example of what the program teaches us. Tell them where You got it & thanks for having me.
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Member: Cherise L. Location: Sober in PA Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 07:10:28
Comments Hi I'm Cherise and I'm a Grateful alcoholic. Hey Jen, thanks for the topic, and I really miss you guys!!!!!
For me, when it was time for me to make amends to someone, they appeared. I agree with everyone that says you should get the guidance from your sponsor though. It took some people a long time to forgive me (Mostly family members) but today by the power of example I show, they have. I said I was sorry so many times when I was drinking, but always continued to repeat the same things I was sorry for. Today I try not to do that. I live my amends and some how we all feel better. It frees me.
Although the hardest amends i made was to my ex. He still blames me for everything. I know he doesn't have a program and is still drinking, but I cleaned my side of the street. This one I did without any guidance from my sponsor. Like someone said earlier it freed me of anger, blame, resentment and lust. And I can finally move forward with my new life. But I was pregnant when I did it, and my emotions were not in sinc, and my ex went and told his girlfriend and the whole amends got twisted into something it wasn't. So from now on any amends I make will be discussed with my sponsor. Thanks all for listening and especially for being here.
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Member: Tim V Location: Poconos, PA Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 09:52:41
Comments The whole point of this for me is not feeling better or making others feel better, but rather, getting me in the proper condition to grow spiritually. For two reasons:
1. To have the spiritual awakening, "the result" of these steps.
2. Because the Big book says that there will come a point for every alcoholic when nothing will stand between us and a drink except for a fit spiritual condition!
That is enough for me to be diligent about this business of "working the step".
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Member: Chris Location: Florida Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 15:36:34
Comments Hello all...Chris here-- alcoholic/ addict Making ammends... This has been a good step for me...Whenever I have made ammends, especially with one certain person.. I have felt a freedom..I have felt that at least I have done the best I can do...It cleaned up "my side of the street"..I can't say that my ammends were always recieved well, but that didn't matter because the guilt and resentment were gone...Often with this certain person, it took alot of inner work to admit my wrongs because they never have admitted to their part in our problems. After I made ammends though, I realized that I really did not need their admittance to the wrongs done as much as I needed the inner freedom which comes with cleaning up my side of the street...............I am having a problem now that mabey samone can help me with... I am coming out of a long perion of suffering both physically and relationally...And I seem to be obcessing over all sorts of things.. Last night I had a dream that I had a drink...It sacared me to death in the dream..much less when I woke up...Mabey I just need to hit a lot of meetings and trust that "this too shall pass", and "wait around until the miracle happens". I feel like God is with me in this struggle. I have just never experienced this before in my sobriety, and I was using so much before my sobriety that I was obcessing about that...Oh well thanks everybody for listening...I am greatful for you all.
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Member: Chris H. Location: Colorado Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 15:59:57
Comments Chris here, and as always, an alcoholic. Well Chris from Florida, you are not unique. "If you've done all you can," don't beat yourself up, if you are like me, you have that one down to an art form. Dwelling on my misery is a waste of time. I always try to admit when I am wrong and move on, and that's the best this alcoholic can do.
Drunk dreams have seemed to alert me to the cunning nature and persistence of this disease, and they have kept me on my toes. If we do the program (step work), go to meetings, clean-up wreckage of past and present (this week's topic), continue to work with others, and don't drink today, guess what, you're a success!
Don't forget, you have a right to feel your feelings, you were given those for a reason, and some things just take more time to heal than others (got that advice from a posting a few weeks ago). You have all the answers in your posting. I have been informed that I do not get to control how other people respond to me or my amends, and further, that is not my right, even if I could, because we each have a right to deal with things in our lives, at our own pace and in our own way, as best we can. I was told that the serenity prayer, "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (other people), the courage to change the things I can (myself with plenty of help), and the wisdom to know the difference, is about all I get.
Good Luck!
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Member: eileen L Location: East coast Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 20:20:41
Comments Hi: This is my 1st. I am very new, and have been drinking for many years, too many to mention. I decided just this past Sunday to stop. I'm tired of exercising and constantly watching what I am eating to keep a good figure. I am 50 yrs. old, and would rather drink my calories. I'm sick of it. Give me some input. I really appreciate all of your help. Eileen
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Member: eileen L Location: Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 20:22:05
Comments
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Member: Lisa LC Location: Conejo Valley, CA. Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 21:10:35
Comments Hi, my name is Lisa LC and I am an alcoholic and an addict- I haven't been here in this site for a while now. I have been so busy. But I decided to read up here and be reminded of who I am and what I need to be doing. Eileen, welcome! It sounds as if your tired of being sick and tired. But, alcoholics annoyomous is to not pick up that first drink. Worrying about your weight won't help you in this place. IF you want to STOP DRINKING, then your in the right place! Congradulations on your last drink last Sunday, that's GREAT!! Now, just concentrate on meetings, getting a Big Book (ALCOHOLIC'S ANNOYMOUS) and READ it! Listen well in the meetings (try to go to Women's meetings-get a Directory of you local meetings, some churches have them as well as the yellow pages under ALCOHOLIC'S ANNOYMOUS) When your listening to some people share, listen carefully and you'll relate to what is being said. If a woman sharing is really getting your attention and you are really identifying with her, ask her during or after the meeting to help you with being a sponser for you. She will help you. I know, mine has always been a blessing and keeps me on track. When I don't have one, things can get kinda "OFF". And, not drinking, you'll probably loose wieght anyway. But, worrying about that issue is not important right now. LIVING is! And that is not possible if we don't stay sober, at least I know for me this is true!! BIG TIME !!!! Just keep comming back and I hope to talk to you, I really do care. I have been helped and I am so grateful to God for this. I love being sober! My sobriety although has put on quite a bit of weight on me though, but being here and being alive, being a parent is far better than being concerned about my weight. I don't neccessarily like it, but this is what is supposed to be for me and I just have to accept it!! Please, stick around and don't leave before the miracle happens. I promise you this. Keep Comming Back!! As, for the topic, I am glad that this was chosed. I need to be reminded that I have to be on top of the "Amens List", a daily reprieve and review of my day, to see if there is any of my actions to be concerned about. Do I need to make a apology to someone? Did I lash out or say, do or hurt someone? Then this needs to be delt with each and everyday. I need to say sorry, when I have wronged someone, etc. If I don't I am sure to drink/use again and God knows, I don't want to ever do that again!! I pray that I can continue to do, say and act appropriatly at all times, but if I mess up, take care of it right away!! Don't put it off!! Thanks for the topic, I needed to hear this message. Thank you also for allowing me to share, and I feel so good right now, you cannot even imangine!! Sorry though, for taking up so much room here. Bye for now. Eileen, you can email me at LCRMOMX3cs.com if you'd like. Thanks again.
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Member: kelly m. Location: colorado Date: 20 Oct 1999 Time: 23:43:07
Comments My name is kelly and I have a BIG problem with making amends.I think my pride has a lot to do with it. I am not talking about amends in my steps I mean everyday amends. The fact that I don't go to meetings could be a big part of it.I think I have been to four meetings in the last six months.My life is just so full that I don't know when I can get there. I work full time plus I go to school 4 nights out of the week for four hours a night.I am not saying pity me. I have no excuses. I do like to spend my weekends with my wife and kids but I still could go to an hour long meeting. Most of the time lately I feel like drinking, but I am one of these that to drink is to die and I know that. I have been sober for awhile now and I know what I have to do to stay this way. I don't have a sponsor and I never got past my fourth step(that was two years ago). So where do I go from here? any helpful suggestions?
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Member: Art H Location: Black Hills Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 06:27:10
Comments Yes Kelly, I have a few suggestions, no advice, just stuff I have felt & been through, if it helps fine, if not also fine. I have been sober over 22 years, my AA attendence has been from very good to very bad depending on who you are talking to. You will hear others respond to you by saying "you feel like drinking because" & go on & on about what you need to be doing. For me, when I want I drink or feel like drinking it is simple. I want to get drunk. Unlike others who I have heard say, their "worst day sober is better than their best day drunk", I had allot of good times drunk. I don't today because the short term reward is not worth the long term pain. I agree, to drink could mean to die, but I also believe I could drink today & still be alive the next day. But I don't, because I would not enjoy looking in the mirror the next day.
You say you have excusses for not going to meetings, others might say if you were drinking you would find time to drink. I hear allot of myself in what you say & it sounds like you are putting a lot of guit crap on yourself. Work, School, & FAMILY are all good reasons to be too busy to do something. Meetings are very very important, but not any more so than living your life & filling it up with very good things like work, school, & family. For me the reason I came to AA was because I did not want to drink anymore, not so I could go around & make amends to people, hell if I force myself to do that I would drink, For me AA says I don't have to drink today, that is how I obtain my desire not to drink.
Amends are important, but not if not making them is filling me up with guilt & getting me into I could have, should have, kind of thinking & feeling.
It sounds like you have a great life, I have heard it said & believe it to be true for me that an alcoholic can feel guilty & unworthy, & when he starts to feel happy, the illness will try & take it away by messing with his mind. You helped me by sharing, as I at times feel what you stated you felt. It reminded me that I need to cut myself some slack, stay away from the I should be doing crap.
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Member: kelly m. Location: colorado Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 08:52:46
Comments thank you Art H
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Member: Andi Location: Wausau, WI Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 11:10:35
Comments Amends are not my favorite thing to do. I still have difficulty making direct amends but I know that it is a necessary part of keeping my sobriety in check. I even had a hard time making out my eighth step list. Making direct amends to me is a way that I can finally let go of my fears, resentments etc. I still have an amend to make to my x husband but now is not a good time. My sponsor is working with me on this one because he is really mad at me right now and she thinks it would only cause more harm to try and make an amends now. She also says that I cant take him off of my list because some time down the road here I will get the opportunity to make that amends. I think that is one amends that will help set me completely free. My sponsor says to trust that God will make sure that I know when it is the right time and place and to not be so quick about it. I need to patient; another thing I need to work on. A topic for another day. Oh well thanks for letting me share with all you and thanks for letting me pick the topic last week.
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Member: Mary S Location: texas Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 17:04:06
Comments
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Member: MARK J Location: LONDON UK Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 17:42:50
Comments Hi, I'm Mark and I'm an alcoholic.
I know that this message should keep to the subject matter, however as I'm using a handheld Nokia organiser rather than a PC it is not easy for me to access the Coffee Pot before my batteries run out. I am currently in a treatment centre in SW London and have just started using the rooms - I am pleased to find a web facility which will, I am sure be of an additional help when I cannot get to a meeting. Good Luck to all of you
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Member: Don B Location: Alabama Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 19:24:58
Comments Hi, My name is Don, and I'm a drunk. Yes, I know it sounds real bad, but I am. I was sober for over 10 years and I let the fricking demon back into my life. I cannot tell you why. I cannot tell my wife or son why either. I just know that right now I wish I was not here. I feel so low. I want to get some help here. Can anyone please help me? I have been to shrinks and they seem to advocate drugs for depression. Has anyone else gone from being depressed to being "normal" w/o drugs? Please let me know. I have to do something and I cannot continue like I am.
Thanks Don bryandm@ro.com
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Member: Patti N Location: Louisiana Date: 21 Oct 1999 Time: 21:03:39
Comments Hi, I'm Patti and also a drunk - i thought we all were, Don. Not that we have to at the present to be one. I have seen people slip after 9 and 10 years. I went out after 23 months, but it wasn't a slip, it was intentional and deliberate. I hear people say in meetings that we're writing our own story and that it takes what it takes. you are back seeking something from the group, again. Alcoholism is a desease and the program is one of progression. Welcome BAck!
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Member: Paul Q Location: Toronto Date: 22 Oct 1999 Time: 08:03:45
Comments The 100, who recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind body and soul..... Laid down what we need to watch for and do in Step 9........
I follow the "BOOK".....it works 100% for me being a type 3 alcoholic.......
Spiritual Experience page 569 it the objective......the path (process) is laid out for me in masterly detail.....
Its not the fellowship, but the program of action......
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Member: Tom G Location: MTN REST SC. Date: 22 Oct 1999 Time: 08:57:10
Comments Hi im Tom Alcoholic thanks for the topic Jen. When i started making my amends it was stressed to me about the last part where it says them or others. The reason i say this is because there are things in my past that i did that im not proud of that i havent been able to make amends on.And thats OK because of you people and a Loving and caring GOD And a great Sponcer ive done what was sugested to do and my life is great. Thanks PS As we Truge The Road To Happy Destiny.I belive that God Reviels to us more amends because i feel if THIS Alcoholic would have rembered all of the wrongs that I did I dont know if i would have ever got sober.And i truely believe this. Thanks for letting me share. Your friend Tom G.
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Member: Sandy S Location: Western Massachusetts Date: 22 Oct 1999 Time: 16:16:27
Comments My name is Sandy and I am an alcoholic. I'm new to the Web but have several years of continuous sobriety. I love the 9th step. Each amend I have made has been a different experience and a process -- that it to say I had prepared for the amend with my sponsor and my higher power. The timing has always been in my higher power's time, not my time. Sometimes this is frustrating, but in the end I always learn to trust my higher power and the people in my AA life.
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Member: Becky S Location: Santa Fe. N.M. Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 00:59:38
Comments , Wow this was outrageous to see all the comments from all over the world. I'm new to this web meeting. I'm a recovering alcoholic with a few years and the amends step has been an amazing ongoing experience. God has done for me what I could not do alone, at other times a small voice said it was time for an amends that was the darkest secret I had. My sponsors over the years told me not to make the amends because it would harm the person but I knew it was the right thing to do. It was and the dark secret is gone and the relationship with that person no longer has a wedge of shame and guilt. Now the relationship is one of openess love and mutual support. Sometimes I just need to trust my quiet voice. thanks for being here!Becky
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Member: Jerry N. Gret Bender Location: NEPA Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 01:11:13
Comments I am an alcoholic and my name is Jerry. It's great to be sober today, and I thank all of you for being here to keep me that way. Very good topic, and a lot of good sharing. All the sugestions, following the guide of the BB, working with a sponsor, and reviewing your motives are all right on target. I would like to add a personal experience I had with this step. I was on the phone with my ex-wife's husband, and telling him that I was trying to write a letter of amends to my ex and him, but; I was having difficulty with expressing it. He asked, " Fourth Step, Jerry?" I said " I said no the eighth and ninth steps?" He then replied, " No, I mean the 4th step, have you completed the 4th. Amends can not be truely made until you are able to you are aware of your own part of the situation." I had no idea that this person was familar with our program, but aparrently that is where he met my ex, 11 years before (I didn't know she was in recovery either). It seems that he knew what he was saying, because after I slowed down my recovery and decided to work through the steps with my sponsor, I was able to see "the patterns" of my behavoir by working the 4th step. It was then that I saw my part rather than my actions. ( Fear that coroding thread in the fabrics of our lives). Well, that was about 6 1/2 yrs ago that we had that discussion, and last year, my HP presented me with an opertunity to make amends with my ex. I still have more amends to make with others, but, I stand willing to do so when my HP puts it in my path to do so. I love living sober, and I am grateful to face people without regrets or fear, and I have fewer ghosts that haunt me from the past. I am sorry to share so long, but I would also like to point out that the promises are in the Big Book, following this step and I find it to be true. Thanx all for being here.
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Member: Mary H Location: WI Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 08:26:55
Comments I'm Mary-Alcoholic. I feel that I'm new to the program even tho I've been in and out of it for many years. I know now that I was never really willing to let all of it go and follow the directions that A.A. taught me would work. I also know that I can't continue to live half a life which is what it seems like I do if I don't follow the program. There are many that I feel the need to make amends to. I recently got a sponsor which I never did before and I'm hoping she can help me with this. Shani T.--I would also like to be your pen-pal. I'm 39 and live in Wisconsin. It's cold up here too! E-mail me at mlhem@mwt.net. Live in Hope.
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Member: Stacie S Location: Washington, DC Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 14:11:40
Comments Hi all, Stacie here, I know the topic at hand is the 8th step. But I needed to tell someone right now what is going on my life, before a cloud of denial takes me away to my next drink. I tried to find a physical meeting that was open, but nothing going on until tonight. I've got to write this down or say something to someone right now.. This is an insidious disease. When I went to my first meeting, I was 19. Barely a weekend binge drinker. I stayed sober for five years. Left because I wasn't an alcoholic.. tired of living my life in meetings.. wanted to get a life. Now, 8 years later, I've got quite a life.. a great job, live in a great city, some good friends. But I drink every night and no matter how I fill my life with fun and activity.. I'm absolutely lonely. I'm tired of waking up every morning with a hangover. I'm tired of my mind being mush for most of the day. I'm scared that I will eventually lose my job because of it.. friends are telling me that "I drink too much" All the signs are there.. but what's scary is that I don't know if I will really show up to a meeting this evening. The denial runs so deep and thick. A phrase from the big book keeps coming back to me again and again.. "This is a deadly, progressive disease." I believe it. Stacie..
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Member: Tracey H Location: AZ Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 15:48:24
Comments Stacie, hang in there and get to that meeting tonight! I, too, was under a mistaken impression that I couldn't possibly be an alcoholic--I hadn't gone bankrupt, been arrested, gotten a DUI (amazing in itself), or lost a job, though I came close. I remember too well the hungover mornings/days, the mind being mush, the inconsolable loneliness... I remember congratulating myself on the fact that I never ever went to work under the influence (everyone knows that only alcoholics do that!). Yike. Please, please, PLEASE stick with it. It's worth it.
Thanks to Jen for the topic! I've had my own amends issue for quite a while, and I'd like some feedback, please. I don't trust my own judgement on this. My first "true love" may yet be under the mistaken belief that he has a 14-year-old son or daughter out there somewhere, due to a lie I wrote out of hurt and anger, when I was deep in my addiction. I have long wanted to make amends for the whole mess to him, and that in particular. He has an extremely common name, and my searches on the net have been inconclusive. I have enough information about him that a professional searcher would probably have no problem finding him, and the money to do this is not an issue. Here is the dilemma: Our relationship had malignant, addictive qualities of its own (I took him back three times), and I am nervous about contacting him. I am happily married and have no wish to relive my youth, particularly that part of it, but I AM curious to know whatever became of him, and what he is doing now. It is this curiousity that is giving me pause. I find myself questioning my own motives for wanting to find him, and am afraid of opening up a can of worms that I won't be able to close. Any thoughts?
Many Thanks for letting me share, and for any feedback!
Tracey H
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Member: Barbara H Location: CT Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 17:35:16
Comments Hi, Barbara, alcoholic here. Some of my relationships have been ammended without me saying "I'm sorry",but by a totally different way of interacting which God directs. Lately(four days) I have felt a steady sense of calm amid stressors that used to easily rattle me. My spiritual awakening? I hope it lasts. Tracey h, why not believe that God will help you settle what needs to be settled in time. let go and let God.
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Member: Jen P. Location: Poconos, PA Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 18:32:17
Comments Jen here- alcoholic. Sorry for the double share, but I just wanted to say what wonderful sharing this week and how much you all have helped me. Stacie - I felt the same way. I would sit on the couch and watch the time for the meeting pass by, and cry. I had to get down on my knees and ask for the strength to get me there, and then I went!! I can really identify with your drinking too. My life now is so much better. I hope you will get there, and stay.
Tracy, you have good insight on yourself. If you are questioning your motives, I would ask my sponsor and hold off. Your honesty is admirable. Thanks for sharing that. You helped me.
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Member: Del M. Location: Seattle Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 18:38:18
Comments Wow, Great Topic, Del M. Here Thanks for brining up some thing I was taught from the first Amends dosn't mean picking up the phone saying sorry checks in the mail. Well I was a Crosscountry Truck driver for 27 years and there sure was going to be a lot of traveling, Till My Sponcer pointed out Made direct amends where Possible. As I have truged down the path "Realy more like walking and enjoying the roses" HP has placed me where I am able to make the amends were they should be made. An Thank you Albequerkie, nice to see someone knows where the solutition is.
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Member: Mark W Location: Western Maine Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 19:11:58
Comments Hi my name is Mark and I'm an alcoholic. I didn't know I had included this site on my favorites list. I live in a remote area for AA meetings and finding rides has been all but futile. I lost my license and depend on others for rides right now. I've never been in a part of the country where its been this difficult to find rides. That aside its great to know this meeting is here. I've tried to get to a meeting all day-no luck-because I've needed to talk to someone about an issue that's got me in a bad place. I need to see a doctor on Mon. because of an injury, the problem is that he'll give me pain killers if I ask. I dually addicted, and only a few wks. sober this time. I know what the sober thing to do is certainly, but the demons of stinking thinking have me planning a slip. Its been very difficult for me without meetings on a regular basis, I've asked people to sponsor me, and those I've thought would be right for me can't for one reason or another. Thanks for being here, I needed to get this off my chest whether I do the right thing on Mon. or not.
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Member: Rusty M Location: Toronto Date: 23 Oct 1999 Time: 20:59:58
Comments Hi Rusty here and I'm an alcoholic. I've only been in the program 3 1/2 months and I'm having a tough time tonight. I called my best friend and temporary sponsor earlier just after I got up from a nap. Her s/o answered and I asked to speak to her. When she got on the phone I said 'Hi' and she immediately asked if I'd been drinking and immediately in the background her s/o said 'that's what I thought'. I was stunned and I hung up the phone. I haven't touched a drink since July 4 and have no intentions of doing so, I've attended 6 - 7 meetings per week since I first walked through the doors but tonight I couldn't (wouldn't?) go to a meeting. I called her back but just got her answering machine. The message I left stating that she had hurt me but I wasn't mad at her I was upset at her s/o for stating his opinion so quickly. My hurt is overwhelming but I had to make the call back to her.
on the topic of making amends, I've tried to call my sister, but she won't return my calls. I've talked to most of the people who were targeted by my bottle and my sister is the only person left to make amends with.
My lack of ambition to go to my meeting tonight brought me here. I still need to vent and I've read all the comments with great interest. But may I say to Bill L of Australia, newcomers like myself who are trying to attempt so much in so little time can't truly comprehend the Big Book, let alone read the entire Book all at once. There are too many gremlins in my head and your stating which page to read is a great help.
To Stacie S. I know how you feel. I'm just starting a new job on Monday after being unemployed since January due to not my drinking but to memory loss because of it (unbeknownst to me) I drank for lonliness in my home, never outside, I never drove while drinking and even my grown boys never knew how much I drank until I tried the suicide attempt in January which resulted in the temporary loss of seeing my 6 month old grandson. That was the biggest hurt of all. I still cannot see him by myself and it's starting to bother me all over again. I still feel I have no friends because they are all in the program and by this one single statement of my best friend has sent me reeling.
Thank you for letting me vent.
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Member: Tom D Location: Sydney, Australia Date: 24 Oct 1999 Time: 07:51:13
Comments My name is Tom, and I am an Alcoholic; Making Amends - one of the toughest and most frightening parts of the program to the newcomer - at first we are terrified that we Won't Do It Right. What I found (it worked for me) was either that the occasion arose where it was absolutely obvious that my Higher Power had put the right person and me together in the right circumstances for "it" (the making of whatever amends were appropriate) to happen - I have to say that the usual response was along the lines of "Oh, I forgave you for that long ago, and the great thing is to see you well and happy"; or my Sponsor (trust your sponsor - believe it) told me that it was high time I did something about what I had done to whoever-it-was, NOT to make ME feel good, NOT as a penance, but because the thing had to be done. But keep it simple - the three-act-opera apology might be an embarrassment to the amendee, and that is as bad as a hurt. This has been working for me (one day at a time, easy does it, all those little mottoes I used to hate) for twenty years; none of the people I hurt, and later apologised to, killed me (although two of them said that at one time they would have!). There will be one exception to this suggestion - if any of you retired drunks out there (do not be insulted - the only person I can call an Alcoholic is me, and I am nothing more than an old retired drunk) needs to make amends to me, just do it by praying for me and the wonderful family I now have. I love you all, and I thank God that you are all there. Blessings, in abundance.
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Member: John{J,L,} Location: Newark.De Date: 24 Oct 1999 Time: 07:52:32
Comments Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
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Member: John, {J.L} Location: Newark,De Date: 24 Oct 1999 Time: 07:56:15
Comments Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
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Member: J.L. Location: Newark.De Date: 24 Oct 1999 Time: 08:02:30
Comments Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
sorry if this keeps reappearing but i'm trying to post it as a topic,instead as a obituary
Member: John.L
Location: Newark,De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 08:10:52
Comments Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
sorry if this keeps reappearing but i'm trying to post it as a topic,instead of as a obituary
Member: John.L
Location: Newark,De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 08:13:02
Comments Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
sorry if this keeps reappearing but i'm trying to post it as a topic,instead of as a obituary
Member: John.L
Location: Newark,U.S.A
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 08:29:01
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
sorry if this keeps reappearing but i'm trying to post it as a topic,instead of as a obituary
Member: John.L
Location: Newark.De
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 09:20:11
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober
Member: John.L
Location: Newark
Date: 24 Oct 1999
Time: 09:44:27
Morning All,,,I was hoping the topic this week,could be dealing with the holidays sober,,,being there's alot coming up...and it is definately a hard time of the year for me .
Have alot of old memorys and emotions around this time of year , and have a real problem some times just taking it easy ,and that one day at a time . i'm not a newbie/but not a old timer either ,just a scared person who is having a rough time ..and the holidays at hand aren't helping matters any .so I hope we can find a topic out of this,,if not,,how about {Don't Expect,To Much,To Soon,To Easy} cause that seems to be the other side of the coin that i'm dealing with ,cause I want these thoughts to go away,and hopefully soon,,but there not!!! Signed: struggling,,but sober