Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 7:08:25 AM

Comments

fear,insecurity and low self esteem.how do i rid myself of them after 45 years of being me.iknow there is a better way but how????


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 7:35:20 AM

Comments

sorry.forget that topic.its negative and something that i guess i will just have to work on.someone else can set a topic that is perhaps a bit healthier and more inspiring.lets have a great sober day today.sorry again for my selfishness.


Member: Misha B.
Location: Indiana
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 7:56:30 AM

Comments

When an AA member has a problem, a meeting is the perfect place to bring it up. I had horrible resentments for myself, I wrote them down, shared them with my sponsor, prayed to be willing to let them go, but I have never made amends to myself, I didn't know how. The speaker at a Women's Workshop I attended said that she had to stand in front of a mirror, several times a day, and tell the lady in the mirror that she loves and forgives her. I am doing it, too. My amends to myself. I love me, I forgive me, and I am worthy- of God's love and forgiveness, of His grace, and of this life He has blessed me with. I'm starting to believe me! It's good. It might be worth a try for you, too. Love, Misha (MediumWell_01)


Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson Michigan
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:03:32 AM

Comments

I too suffer from low self-esteem and insecurity. What I find I must do is pray, work the steps, and have the faith that it will get better. As more and more of the promises come to me I feel better about myself. Also helping others has a way of bolstering self worth. The mirror exercise works good too.


Member: Daddytroll
Location: Hawaii
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:08:17 AM

Comments

That's fine AS from the UK, nothing wrong with having feelings that all humans have at some level. What I often think of when I hear topics such as this where alcoholics are concerned is the fact you mentioned about the length of time you've been doing it. Practicing one's craft of self-deceit 24/7, for 45 years makes one a pretty darn good con-man/woman. Sort of the Michael Jordan's of fear, insecurity, and low self-esteem, if you will. You see dear person, it's not about honesty so much with others, although has obvious importance as well, as it is about "To Thine Ownself Be True." NOT an AA quip, but one for the whole of humanity in this area, it is all about humility and seeing oneself as one truly is. Only from that may I then get to true honesty with others as I first had to know what I was all about before I could even begin to rid myself of those maladies of the human spirit that you speak. My self-esteem is such that I have no need of AA as I know that I myself can and will stay sober without meetings and all the silliness that only bring about false reality for me. Even for the best of us it is often difficult to decipher what is real truth when so many who have so long deceived themselves they actually believe their own con-games as truth they not only sound sincere, they are. Sadly they have no clue that they are hurting theirselves more than they could ever hurt anyone else whether others buy their deceit or not, it makes little difference. Even more sad is they then believe everybody else to be lying because that's what they do. Anyway, thus is the entire point of "To Thine Ownself Be True," as only then can we ever begin to achieve a more proper level of healthy self-esteem, etc., etc.


Member: Robert H
Location: Columbus, OH
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:10:08 AM

Comments

I think that each of has either a problem with insecurity, or did at one point. For me, I have found that it is a problem with perception. Remember that our perception equals the reality that we live in. Therefore, no matter what the truth is, the truth we believe is what is represented in our minds. With this in mind, I have found several ways that I help to raise my feelings of self worth: 1. help other people 2. surround yourself with positive people 3. surround yourself with people who respect and like you 4. build a relationship with your higher power 5. always do your best 6. remember that you cannot please everyone all of the time and that there are just going to be some people that don't like you God Bless, Robert www.alcoholrecovery.net


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:27:29 AM

Comments

robert.thank you for that,i really do appreciate it.it,s hard to face the fact that i can show the same restless,irritable and discontent feelings my illness stirs up in me but i really am gonna try your suggestions as i feel its time to work on me as a person.my partner recons i have changed a lot since coming to aa but maybe I need to see it to believe it.thanks also to daddytroll(do you really like to be called that?it feels wrong to say it.)your suggestion of being true to myself is also one to try,i am a bit of a "people pleaser"when face to face as i usually think people are smarter,nicer,prettier,more spiritual,more sober etc than me.time to work hard on me i fear.thank you again.


Member: John O'L
Location: DFW, Texas
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:54:50 AM

Comments

Good Morning, Everyone! My name is John O'L and I am an alcoholic from Texas - because the program of Alcoholics Anonymous works, I have not found it necessary to take a drink in over 21 years, and for that I am as grateful as I know how to be! I know what you mean, A.S. from the UK, when you say that you think of others as being smarter, more handsome, more spiritual, etc, than yourself. This was an issue I had to deal with myself when I first became sober. The old-timers called it "comparing my insides with other peoples outsides", meaning that I knew my own inner insecurities, but imagined that none of those around me had any insecurities of their own. Over the years, I've learned that we all have inner demons we must confront - even those who appear to be the most beautiful and smartest, they too have their own secret problems that those who do not know them well could never guess. I think of this as part of keeping my own side of the street clean - that I will work on my own insecurities and fears and resentments and other negative aspects of my inner self, and to the best of my ability, I will help those around me in all worthy goals. I will tell you honestly that after 21 years of sobriety, I am still not a Saint. However, I have come a long, long way from the man who entered AA decades ago, filled with resentment and self-pity. One final thought: Before coming into AA, I had tried to leave the booze alone - I had tried over and over again. I never stayed away from it for even a full year. After coming to AA and attending meetings, reading the Big Book, and sharing, I have not had a drink in over 20 years, and I feel better about myself. Friends, relatives, and all who knew me from my drinking days are happy that I am sober and I am happy, too. Best Wishes!


Member: Just call me "D"
Location: Hawaii
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 9:55:54 AM

Comments

LOL...Yeah, that does sound a little "odd," doesn't it? Thanks A.S. and Robert both for your sincerity of heart. I however have to respectfully disagree with Robert and in fact would offer that he just exemplified my point in dramatic fashion. Using that line of logic regarding reality then if I believed myself to be the President of the USA, or any other country for that matter, than I would in fact be in "reality." That is EXACTLY the type of warped alcoholic thinking that we must break ourselves of, for ourselves, if we are to ever have a balance of feeling and actions in life. To not drink and continue with that type of insane version of "reality," is far worse of a place to be than doing it drunk as alcohol can no longer be blamed. Like I said, years of doing this make it very, very, difficult for one to see oneself. The idea that reality itself is relative is one of the greatest dangers of the modernist AA ideolouges and while I understand it as it "sounds" good, it is very dangerous. Years and tears of self-searching are often required to find truth and it can never be done with taking that "easier, softer, route," as there are indeed and without question some absolute truths, and hence realities.


Member: Henry F
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 10:23:40 AM

Comments

Good morning, A.S., and thank you for the topic. From my experience, low self esteem and depression are quite common in A.A. This is the direct result of addiction. I had always heard that alcohol was a depressant, but from my experience, I learned how true that statment was. It took a while for my brain chemistry to return to normal and for the depressed mood to leave me. But, by the grace of my Father, it did. I see many newcomers suffering from the same thing because their brain has not yet healed from the damage caused by excessive alcohol use. I also see the same thing from the many members of A.A. who smoke. Nicotine is a major cause of depression. The nicotine in tobacco gives the user an initial 'high,' but shortly it wears off and depression results. Then, the person lights up another cigarette to combat the depression and the cycle begins again. Unfortunately, with each subsequent cigarette, the depression gets a little deeper. Soon, he is smoking more and more just to try to get back to 'normal.' If this applies to you, get off the nicotine and give your brain a change to heal. That is why it is so important in A.A. not just to quit drinking, but to actually get clean and sober. It's all about change. Not changing drugs (like my smoking friends have done by changing their addiction from alcohol to nicotine), but changing your lifestyle. Eating properly, getting an abundant amount of exercise, and losing weight (if applicable) is also part of the process. God Bless all and have a great day!


Member: Bob M
Location: Dallas, Texas
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 11:04:36 AM

Comments

Hi my name is Bob an I'm a alcoholic. I had my last drink on Aug.12 1985. About the only think I've done right over these years is not take a drink.Thank God when you frist come into AA you are not judged are given me assignments that you must turn in. They understood me and asked me to just keep coming back. I had a lot of anger. I didn't want to be in AA with all of you losers. But what I didn't know at the time was that I was full of FEAR and insecurty. The anger was a disguise for the fear I felt. I am an old timer sit me down one day. We had a talk and something inside of me cliked. The anger was killing my sprit I was bocked from the AA message. I was not open mined I had contemp before investation (see page 549 of the big book) it describes me to a tee at the time.Once I realized this things began to get easier for me. Who am I to judge others. The most powerful think I have ever learned here is that I am Powerless. I have no control over any thing except my feelings and how I choose to let things effect me. Once I learned this the anger went away. Then I was confronted by the fear. It was pointed out to me that fear was: Futher Events Appearing Real Fear is something that has not arrived yet. The answer was to stay in the how. Then I did the fear inventory described in the Big Book and things began to feel better for me. Fear is lack of faith I began to realize God was going to take care of me. This has been a journey for me learning to live life on lifes terms. AA saved my life and gave me the roadmap to live a happy life. Thanks for letting me share. Bob


Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 11:52:43 AM

Comments

"Come as you are", I was told. And "don't drink for today". "The rest will fall into place." And so it does, one day at a time. Insecurity and low self esteem continue to rear their ugly heads in my life but the difference for me today is that I am able to identify what I feel, clean house, ask the Higher Power for help and believe that I will receive it. These actions do not usually result in an immediate change of heart, but they do help me not to say or do anything that will worsen the insecurity or low self esteem. Sometimes I continue headlong into the big black & blue funk anyway. My final safety net is not picking up that first drink. Everything is up from there for me.


Member: BABE
Location: only as honest as i need to be
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:37:47 PM

Comments

Great shares! thanx. The big book talks about "how are we to know we are now doing the right thing after fooling ouselves for so long. (someting like that).. and how true that was for me. my masterful mind conned 24 - 7 and i was completely confused for a long time in early sobriety. And only through using and practicing the art of self appraisal (with help from experienced ones): have i developed the habit of self searching/ call it step 10 whatever you like. A sponsor explained to me, to watch what happens to my mind and heart when doing a step 10, (as soon as i get a glimpse of a wrongdoing or character defect that was active at some point in my day; my ever so clever mind would immediately come to fore, with endless justifications and reasoning all to the avail of once more fooling myself into not simply admitting i was off the beam.(Fear in action?). the mind is an amazing organ, and just like the 12 by 12 states" i could justify the most arrid nonsense on the face of the earth; and while doing this act and practicing 'insanity' i pushed the tolerance of some of my sponsors to the snapping point, and at times they took the gloves off and put it right on me, as to what was really going on, and what i was "really doing" (and did i ever get mad at them)) i would smile and say okay ya your right, lovely i'll just get right on that and change it super! great! thanx! and would walk away steaming...(later i realized i should make plans to be in a pissed off state regularily, cause there were some pretty tough people who were not afraid to tell me the straight goods, and later i was so very very grateful to them for it) i started to learn that real love wasn't the fantasy i thought it was; all nicey nice and sticky sweet) it was gettin pretty real and i was eventually glad for it. WE say that it takes time to learn honesty. but rigorous honesty takes even longer for most it seems. and then there is "perfect honesty" which i heard can be just rediculous and not necessarily the goal either, but typical alcoholic behaviour, i went way too far with honesty as well, i was a pain in the you know what to even be around... i would be "innapropriately honest" thinking i was such a good gal, and all the while making others around me uncomfortable.. it comes back at times and i fall short, but im only human, so i can make amends where i need to and get on with it.


Member: Kimi B.
Location: Long
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:43:25 PM

Comments

I was taught that if I wanted self-esteem, then I had to do esteemable acts. It took me a long time to figure out just what those were, but after 19+ years of sobriety, and many inventories, I finally figured out that I have to do what I say I will do, admit when I am wrong, not gloat when I am right, be as honest as I can, treat people with respect, all of them, even the ones I don’t like, be as honest as I can, even when it makes me look bad, and show up to work on time and actually work. Since this is not my usual nature, I had to go to lots of meetings to learn how to be different and do a lot of inventories to rid myself of the resentments that came up when I thought I was the only one doing all the work Hang in there.


Member: Kimi B.
Location: Long
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:43:35 PM

Comments

I was taught that if I wanted self-esteem, then I had to do esteemable acts. It took me a long time to figure out just what those were, but after 19+ years of sobriety, and many inventories, I finally figured out that I have to do what I say I will do, admit when I am wrong, not gloat when I am right, be as honest as I can, treat people with respect, all of them, even the ones I don’t like, be as honest as I can, even when it makes me look bad, and show up to work on time and actually work. Since this is not my usual nature, I had to go to lots of meetings to learn how to be different and do a lot of inventories to rid myself of the resentments that came up when I thought I was the only one doing all the work Hang in there.


Member: Kimi B.
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 2:48:26 PM

Comments

Sorry at sending twice, new keyboard.


Member: robert s
Location: ARIZONA
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 4:00:32 PM

Comments

work the steps,the third step relize that "I" CANT change without Gods help. ask God to help me to understand what is causing the FEAR in my life and then ask God to remove it


Member: vk
Location: just traveling through
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 4:07:35 PM

Comments

Self-esteem, hummm...pretty good subject. I think alot of people in early recovery get that. Sometimes you really have to be careful. Because, it could lead to depression pretty bad. I know, I sure did! But, I seeked for some professional help too. Kept going to A.A. meetings with my s.o. or friends. Reading the B.B. and asking my higher power to help me. I, myself, do self talk. Even though it's kinda hard to at times. Because, I always think negatively, even about anything. So, for every negative, there's got to be a positive! In other words, reverse your thinking a little bit. I can't for I can statements. Then, if you don't like how you look. Pick out something you do like about yourself. For example, I feel like I'm not pretty/handsome enough. So, I pick out something I do like about myself. It takes time, but what ever seems to work for you. Because, what might work for me. Might not work for others. So, hang in there and I hope things work out for you! Thanks for letting me share my opinion.


Member: Eddie B
Location: Miami FL
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 6:50:03 PM

Comments

get out of self, practice being of service to others and then tell me about your self esteem...as the result of the steps we acquire a new sense of identity, I suggest you try that route rather than the psychological\theraputic etc., the deal is that we all have the healthy stuff inside ourselves but it is covered up; the steps get ride of the stuff that covers up our healthy sense of who we are, and enjoy the journey! Eddie B


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 7:22:23 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Kelly an alcoholic. I came into AA an alcoholic with an inferiority complex. So beaten down was I, I constantly appologised to everyone. My lack of self esteem has been an issue my whole life but it was worse getting sober. The last year I felt so ashamed of what I had become I looked and acted it out in my speech and appearance, or lack of it. Today I beam a lot and although I am not beautiful pysically I am on the inside and I shine. It feels so good to be sober and to have hope again. I need to work on not putting myself down so much especially when I speak at meetings. Someone approached me after I spoke once and said it made them uncomfortable. I did not even realize I was doing it. The main thing is I feel comfortable in my own skin today. I am clean and sober and working on my character defects and have my pride back. GodBless. Kelly


Member: Steve L
Location: North of Purdue??
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 8:09:09 PM

Comments

Balance is what a counselor suggested as I was checking out of a treatment center yrs ago. That helped me stay sober about 1 1/2 yrs because I did it my way. Next time I came back to AA I was ready to do it with 12 steps, sponsor, etc It was 10 yrs this month. The program of AA gives my life more balance with sponsors I can relate to, steps that work, spiritual nourishment, and some fun times with other recovering people. AA works and gives my life meaning! Thanks for my sobriety, Steve


Member: kimberley
Location: seattle
Date: 9/28/2003
Time: 8:12:05 PM

Comments

hi kimberley here recovering alcholic, whwn i came to the rooms of aa i had no self esteem but now i have low self esteem it gets better all the time never forget where you came from and who made you, thanks for the share daddy


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 12:21:08 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Darwin and I'm a recovering alcholic and drug addict. Thank you all for your comments. I have been housebound for a couple weeks with an injury and have been unable to attend meetings. I finally decided to try to find an on-line meeting and found this site. The topic of self-esteem is a good one. Much of my self esteem is wrapped up in my career, which will be on hold for the next four months while I recuperate from my injury. I am grateful for the centering I have received through the program, through working the steps, and through the help and support of some outstanding sponsors. AA has helped give me some inner peace that has made the loss of what was previously my only source of self esteem more tolerable.


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 1:02:48 AM

Comments

Fear and self-pity begin to disappear before we are half way through the Ninth Step. "Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us" (Big Book. Pg.84). Self-esteem comes from doing estimable things. We must keep it simple.


Member: Ric B
Location: Harbin, China
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:05:37 AM

Comments

for me the challenge with self esteem is remaining right-sized, thinking neither too little of myself or being too full of myself. it's a tricky proposition, for as an alcoholic i enjoy excess in any form. when i was drinking, after i first got sober and even now after 13 years when i'm not working my program (attending meetings, getting on my knees and asking for daily direction and being of service), nothing was minor. anything i did wrong was cause to believe i was useless or cursed or somehow permanently less than everyone else. similarly, everything i did right elevated me to some special status, a clear sign i was one seriously superior being. the reality? i'm human, i make mistakes. but if i'm honestly trying to practice the program's principles (be open, honest and willing, basically), a mistake is an opportunity to learn and grow and a reminder i need to focus on improving myself, not anyone else. in the same vein, a triumph is proof of what practicing the principles and having a relationship with a higher power can achieve. i don't hold either success or failure too closely because they are simply experiences that, as i believe, are meant to push and pull me closer to my God. by doing that, i stay clear of low or high esteem and remain esteemed. and with that, sorry for going on so long (i hope this is not more than the equivalent of five meeting minutes, but i'm not sure); i'm in northern china and have been for eight days and won't get near a meeting for another couple of days. i've always felt online AA as being too impersonal but i must say reading the comments and leaving one has given me more serenity than i had when i tapped in. for which i thank all of you.


Member: Rocky Balbacoa
Location: 1st World
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:09:53 AM

Comments

Hello my name is Rocky and I'm alcoholic. Thanks for the topic - Fear, Insecurity, Feelings of low self esteem, these are actually off shoots of depression, which we alkies are primarily having this disease. I'm grateful to hear about the advertisements of self-moralizations of the members, I wanna identify like in so many meetings that I have attended. But you know we also grow spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, etc. we don't get stuck in one sense of ideology; there is always change, evolution into the deeper truths and that's just what I want to share. This is actually the trouble with humanity and their uphold sense of goals and principles, when somebody set them up like revolutionaries then people follow them like it is their own truths and of course it works because like all Institutions, people and their faith of it shall make it work. But it doesn't stop there though, when people think that it stops there then problems comes in, major problems of Cultism and of course differences over other beliefs and values and sadly the cause of war, major wars in history are fought over this. You might be saying that I'm drifting out from the topic here but I'm just giving you an overview from the main point which I'm driving, and that is we are insecure because the world is an oppressive and harsh place which is full of anguish and suffering, only Institutions, other religious churches and spiritual organizations like A.A. offers us solace from this central fact like some form of "spiritual drug" so that we could face the world recharged with our "high" from all its ideologies and sad to say "brainwashings" when we go to these 'committees of the spiritual moralizers'. I came through one poem one day about children and one line states, "If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy" but the reality is theres only two ways to go about life; "whether you are with the victimizers or the victim" and most usually we humans want to be the victimizers, for that is the only way to be with the insiders. I know a lot of you shall be appaled by this truth but if we really observe the reality how people's relationships with each other is based it is actually based on this "victim-victimizer" roles, the problem in accepting this fact is that our way of thinking has been so much attuned to Hypocrisy that we don't see this truth. But ask yourself everytime you are happy, "Was it because of victimizing others, mocking, ridiculing, giving others a hard time,power tripping and being in control, moralizing that you are better than them?" If you can honestly answer these questions you will begin to know the truth from hypocrisy. For in this world, we could only be truly happy if we are in control and are in a sense the victimizers, the ones who's got the power over others. I know for the most part most of you cannot see this because what gives you the power to be victimizers is the moralization that you are the "Good Guys", therefore you have the jurisdiction to do evil (which is the victimizing)so that you shall be happy in this world.Unless people first admit to this "disease" should there be even any healing to start with. And where does I fall in any of this? I am of course the victim for the most part, that's why I am fearful, insecure, shy, low self-esteem, etc.


Member: Les's friend
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:14:40 AM

Comments

We must keep it simple cause we are too stupid for any serious thoughts.Is that really so Les?Whi cares what step says what,just dont pick up the poison and you wont get drunk.And do work the steps one time and if the program works for you then it will work,there is no need in spending a lifetime farting around with 12 simple steps.Do the steps and move on with your life.


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 9:05:49 AM

Comments

I'd never directly associated the 9th step with rebuilding self esteem, Les, but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks. Prior to doing my fifth step I intellectualized it as an exercise to break down the ego, which it is--what could be more humiliating than sharing an honest self inventory with another human being? But it is a lot more than that. The root of the word "humiliation" is "humility," which is the opposite of ego. Humility is also the essential ingredient for genuine self esteem. The fifth step might destroy the ego, but in doing so, it puts one on the path to self esteem. I can see why the Big Book says the 9th step helps to finish that process. The tenth step takes us even farther down the path towards self esteem. Great topic. Thanks.


Member: DD
Location: here
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 9:51:44 AM

Comments

Humility and humiliation are far from being the same thing. Any semantic word game associating those two words together as meaning the even close to the same is dangerous for someone with low self-esteem. The very last thing they need is humiliation, yet they can use a large dose of humility, however it's an oft-repeated mistake simply because the words are so similiar in spelling and sound. I hope for others own sake's they do not make that mistake.......


Member: Henry H
Location: Roch
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 10:53:44 AM

Comments

My name is Henry and im an alcoholic I think this is a very good topic and i'd like to say that rate about know i'm feelink like crap. i'm in a halfway house and i went out this weekend got in a fight lost my cell phone could have gotten arrested but by gods grace the next day i landed back at the halfway house. It was weird on my walk back to the house my sponsor drove by and turned around to come back and see what i was doing as soon as he pulled up he knew something was wrong i jumped in the car and got honest i told him what happened i felt alot of hummiliation i did it again why i keep going back to a drink really pisses me off. when im clean i feel so much better my life is somewhat easier or should i say i just have higher class problems. i don't know any more, i do know that i don't want to drink anymore and my life suck's at this point in my life. all due to taking a drink


Member: Les Fudging by Posting Twice.
Location: San Diego
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 11:35:28 AM

Comments

From the root, humus (earth): Humiliation: being driven to the earth -- by another. Humility: planting your feet on the earth. Get down to earth. Get a grip on reality.


Member: ee
Location: ss
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 11:57:57 AM

Comments

hu·mil·i·ty [ hyoo míllitee ] noun modesty or respectfulness: the quality of being modest or respectful [13th century. Via French humilité from Latin humilitas , from humilis (see humble).]


Member: ee
Location: ss
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 11:58:28 AM

Comments

hu·mil·i·ty [ hyoo míllitee ] noun modesty or respectfulness: the quality of being modest or respectful [13th century. Via French humilité from Latin humilitas , from humilis (see humble).]


Member: other
Location: one
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 11:58:42 AM

Comments

hu·mil·i·ate [ hyoo míllee àyt ] (past hu·mil·i·at·ed, past participle hu·mil·i·at·ed, present participle hu·mil·i·at·ing, 3rd person present singular hu·mil·i·ates) transitive verb degrade: to damage somebody’s dignity or pride, especially publicly [Mid-16th century. From late Latin humiliare , from Latin humilis (see humble).]


Member: Lisa
Location: Texas
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 12:30:25 PM

Comments

I'm Lisa an alcoholic and have really enjoyed this weeks topic and comments (most of them anyway). I wanted to say to Henry that the reason I kept drinking was because I'm alcoholic, I have a disease, allergy of the body with obsession of the mind. In the Doctor's Opinion xxvi it states that allergic types can never safely use alcohol and that unless a person can experience an entire psychic change there is little hope of his recovery. With that said, I only know what worked for me and after struggling for 7 years after I went to my first treatment center in 88 I was in and out until 95, I kept trying to do it my way... I had to get miserable enough to finally try it AA's way. For me that was get a sponsor, call her daily, read the BB, make a meeting a day (sometimes more) because my thinking had to change, I got on my knees every morning and asked God to remove the desire to drink (whether I believed it or not), I had to ACT as if it was removed. I learned that I could act my way into right thinking but I couldn't think my way into right acting. That works for me still today, when I am in a funk and don't want to go to meetings I make myself and ALWAYS feel better when I leave. Working thru fear and self doubt has taken time and by practicing the principles I've slowly grown to feel good about me and like the person i am. I always wanted a quick fix but quick fixes never worked. By getting out of myself and trying to help others has been a blessing. The promises have come true in my life but sometimes they come and go. I have to work for them!!! Thanks for letting me share....


Member:
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 12:57:22 PM

Comments

that stupid ass doctor who wrote that shit 65 years ago is not only way ou-tdated, but WRONG!! Find something of some value to read, not that old-ass good for shit nothing blue book.


Member: angie
Location: california
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 2:58:05 PM

Comments

fear, insecurity , and low self esteem .... those are things i think we let go little by little over a period of time ........ i found for me that starting out with small steps ... getting out of myself and doing things for others helped ... do esteemable acts ... helps build the self esteem back up .... fear ,.... i think its always going to be there ... i just think that by staying sober one day at a time and walking through our fears .... that they get easier and easier to deal with because we know what the other side is like ..... we grow i think majorily from the fears we walk through sober ....


Member: Robert H
Location: Columbus, OH.
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 3:00:41 PM

Comments

Robert here...to "Just call me D". I think that my point was misinterpreted, or maybe misrepresented. I was pointing out that reality equals perception in order to help AS understand that it is her perception that is dragging her down and she needs to become more in touch with the reality of the situation. I think my point, and yours, was the same in that we need to focus more on making our perception equal the true reality. For instance, you "respectfully disagreed" with my post because your perception of what I was saying was something different than what I was saying. This is why I have always found it better not to focus on what another in AA says, but to share my own message. This way people do not feel like the things that helped them through sobriety are nullified by other. It helps us to avoid sitautions like this. God Bless, Robert www.alcoholrecovery.net


Member: alice
Location: ireland
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 4:07:52 PM

Comments

Through aa I now have no problem with low self through many meetings . and spending a lot of time with other alcoholics. it some how seemed to leave me i was no longer always thinking of my self .for me this was always a problim .it can return from time to time .not for long though i now can spot it a mile of so i top up my meetings get in touch we aa members and i soon stop thinking about me me me all the time and i am a long time around about 15 years in all. i am not too sure of the date igot sober on an older member in our group knows. i dont want to know it does not matter any more.


Member: Jean Valjean
Location: The 1st Revolution of Democracy from Monarchy
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 4:25:28 PM

Comments

Howdy y'all! Funny thing that the most moralistic people are the most screwball of all just take for instance Christian churches, their colonizing of other lands, destroying peoples culture and mass genocide, that was of course because they thought they were doing it for God (and beleive me even until now). Now I am amused by the"Keep It simple, Stupid" because these guys are quite incapable of using their intellects anyway, they are more comfortable in being with the majority of simpletons who goes to war killing other people in other countries just because their leaders tell them so. And believe me they are the majority! They don't use their brains much just follow what others tell them, that's how they want it to be so simple, like simpletons. Simpletons could not comprehend why only after 3 years of sobriety Bill Wilson have already published the first edition of the Big Book yet the fact is Bill Wilson had written in the Grapevine Magazine that he was suffering in great bouts of depression for 10 years after being sober and to quote, "even the Steps could not work for it". My question is that if they have figured out all things in the Big Book Like The Promises, A Vision For You, How It Works, then why was Bill W. had a shitty time in recovery? I mean if he really hasn't gotten the "quality" sobriety that he was advocating and writing in the Big Book and that majority of the AA members have as the Cornestone Dogma Holy Grail if they work the Steps, then why was Bill W. still had a shitty time in his recovery? I bet you the simpletons wouldn't have any clue about it except that they will find it hard to believe and would still defend that the 12 Steps works despite the facts. See we alkies are all depressives that's our physiological malady, with no exceptions, and here comes a guy who have a terrible time in his dry depression but still wrote down a book that says if you are sober you shall be like us? (And to pthe guys who says that the Big Book was writtten down by the first 100members Why was it then that It was all of Bill W.'s quotes in the Book "As Bill Sees It"?) How ridiculous, but it's the truth and truth my friend is always repulsive and unattractive believe me. But if written down in fiction, Tragedy has always have more depth than comedy, that's why Hamlet and Les Miserables are Immortal masterpieces of mankind. Even Christ's on the cross is a masterpiece. But I guess when I see what's in the popular mass media it's all like written for gradeschoolers because thats how people mentality are at right now, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Lord of The Rings, and to think they are Multi-million dollar investments..I could not blame the simpletons for their "Keep It simple, Stupid!".


Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 4:59:17 PM

Comments

My name is Joe, and I am an alcoholic. Fear, insecurity, and low self-esteem. I didn’t begin to get a clear picture of myself until I had taken Steps 4 & 5. In Step 5, I met with a Catholic priest, who does not happen to be alcoholic, who hears a lot of fifth steps in this area. He asked how old I was at the time, I told him, and he said, “So, Joe, you’ve gone all those years and you have no idea about the proper way to live”. The truth of that statement hit me like a 2X4 upside my head. In taking the rest of the 12 Steps, I began to get some clues as to the proper way to live my life. In 6 & 7, I began learning about humility – having proper perspective of myself. Steps 8 & 9 help me clean up the wreckage of my past. The promises began to come true. As Les pointed out, I began to do esteemable things. Step 10 helps me look at my part in the present and what I can do when I am out of sorts. Eleven sends me to continue to build a relationship with the God of my understanding. And Step 12 tells me that it is in giving that we receive. All these things reduce my fears and insecurities. Humility, proper perspective of myself, gives me appropriate self-esteem, reminding me that I am neither God nor worm. I attend regular Step meetings on a regular basis, which help me to practice the principles (the 12 Steps) in all areas of my life and to continue to improve where I fall short. The meetings also keep me in contact with other human beings with similar problems, reminding me that it is WE who journey together, and that I am only alone if I choose to be. It has been a really great trip so far. Thanks for all your comments.


Member: "D"
Location: reality
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 5:05:42 PM

Comments

Thanks for clarifying that Robert, you are right on the money my friend. Funny how it shows exactly "our" point, huh?LOL.... Again, I appreciate your posts and the insights they provide, thanks!


Member: CMON JOE 5TH STEP ME
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 6:21:29 PM

Comments

Joe P. is lieing,he is not an alcoholic ,he has not had a drink in years.If he is not drinking and still an alcoholic does that mean that he is a dry drunk or has he been drinking with the catholic priest.Shit Joe thats all that a priest does in the booth is hear someone's else's 5th step over and over without the person doing the fessing even realizing that they are working a fifth step.And Joe,you know doggone well that Les dont diddly squat,much like yourself.


Member: CMON JOE 5TH STEP ME
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 6:29:04 PM

Comments

Joe P. is lieing,he is not an alcoholic ,he has not had a drink in years.If he is not drinking and still an alcoholic does that mean that he is a dry drunk or has he been drinking with the catholic priest.Shit Joe thats all that a priest does in the booth is hear someone's else's 5th step over and over without the person doing the fessing even realizing that they are working a fifth step.And Joe,you know doggone well that Les dont diddly squat,much like yourself. Lisa honey,you do not drink because you are an alcoholic,you drink because you like he taste and effect and it satisfies your cravings for the self induced self destruction that you have chosen for yourself due to a lack of better judgement concerning your well being.Choosingto self desturct is not a disease but being brainwashed can lead to a disease,yeah right.


Member: Julie M.
Location: Toronto
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 7:54:45 PM

Comments

Hello, My name is Julie and I am an alcoholic. This is my first time trying to connect with others over the internet. I am having a terrible time with low self-esteem and have several crises in my life that are filling me with FEAR and self loathing. I am trying my best to do 90-in-90 and have a temporary sponsor. Unfortunately I want the AA promises to come true right NOW. Thanks all.


Member: Frankie Z.
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:26:28 PM

Comments

Julie,I hate to be the one to inform you of this,but someone has to tell you.The promises of AA cannot come true right now and worse than that they will never come true.You only have yourself to rely on and only you can make the right choices and decision concerning your future and alcohol nor AA should be a part of that future.Miracles are myths.Enough said.


Member: Mel
Location: Atlanta
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:48:59 PM

Comments

Hi family, Mel here alkie and addict. One of the first things taught to me was EGO can mean thinking too much of yourself (which I always knew) or thinking too little of yourself (which was a new concept for me). EGO (Edging God Out, however you think of it) keeps us from a spiritual experience. I learned that I needed to use rigorious honesty to see where I came from and where I was going personally. I am not best of the best.... but I'm also not the worst of the worst. I am a human who made mistakes. When I start suffering from low selfesteem I ask myself if I would say such negative things (like what I am telling myself) to a friend or my child ... espcially when I knew they were trying their very best. Of course I wouldn't... so do I think I'm better than my friend or child? NO! So stop acting like it. Just my 2 cents... but this one was a REALLY BIG DEAL for me when I first came into sobriety. Until I could learn to love myself I had a hard time believing that my Higher Power could love me. Love and Light to you all, Mel


Member: WHAT
Location:
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:54:54 PM

Comments

What Mel,HP'S ASS


Member: Lisa
Location: Texas
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 8:57:31 PM

Comments

Julie, it takes time for the promises to come true...at least it did for me. The BB says they will always materialize if we work for them and it sounds like your on your way, 90 in 90 helped me a lot. Thanks Joe P., I really enjoyed what you shared.


Member: Batman
Location: New Mexico
Date: 9/29/2003
Time: 11:14:29 PM

Comments

Hello, dear Julie. Miracles do happen and they happen every day. However, I wouldn't rely on the big book for any promises or miracles. As it states in 'How it Works,' no human power can cure us, but God will if asked (paraphrased). The big book contains merely the opinion of one person. As Chicago Joe notes in his share, he gained nothing from A.A. until he visited with a Catholic priest, a man who relies not on the big book but on the Word of God. Therefore, put your faith and trust in God. Ask our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to relieve you from your suffering. You are their precious child, they love you, and they will take care of all your needs. My prayers are with you.


Member: Gudrun
Location: Iceland
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 5:13:44 AM

Comments

First time AA meeting at the internet. Fore me a meeting a day the first two years was necesary becaus of the fear,insecurity and low self esteem I had. Very slowly I began trusting myself and other alcoholocs and higher power as I understand it. Down on my knees evry day the 3rd step: "God, I offer myself to Thee-to build with me as Thou wilt. Relive me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficuities, that victory ower them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of live. May I do Thy will always!" and later on after I had been willing to let God take away all my defects (4th 5th and 6th step) I added the 7th step prayer also on may knee : "My creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, goog and bad, I pray that you now remove from me every singel defect og character which stands in the way og my usfulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do your bidding. Amen." By doing this, as my sponcer told me I slowly began to understand the meaning of the words and the happyness and fullfillment of being humble. Best regards


Member: Dan
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 8:14:20 AM

Comments

My sponsor has just reminded me that whatever happened when I was drinking I am accountable not responsible. Sometime I can get down on myself for the past... I'm still having consequences after a year which is not surprising... but this is a thinking disease and my thinking is not all cracked up at times .Anyway I heard some good suggestions and all I can say is Keep It Simple


Member: Joe P
Location: Chicago
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 9:46:46 AM

Comments

I want to clarify what is said about what I posted. Batman wrote, “As Chicago Joe notes in his share, he gained nothing from A.A. until he visited with a Catholic priest, a man who relies not on the big book but on the Word of God.” That is not only not what I said, but also not true. I gained a lot from AA prior to taking the 5th Step. The compulsion to drink was removed was removed by the time I reached Step 3. I was given much practical advice on not picking up the first drink, such as thinking it all the way through rather than romanticizing the idea of drinking. I could not have gotten anything from admitting the exact nature of my wrongs to another human being without first doing a lot of writing on my Fourth Step. I did that writing in a fashion very similar to that laid out in the Big Book. Thank you.


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 10:53:56 AM

Comments

The discussion on humility/humiliation reminded me of something the pastor with whom I did my fifth step told me. He said I needed to distinguish between guilt and shame. He said guilt was genuine remorse for something that I've done, and shame was me feeling terrible because someone in my life had made me feel terrible. I understand that in our culture humiliation is often considered the result of shame as much or more so than it is the result of guilt. But I think when taken in the context of the fourth, fifth, ninth, and tenth steps, it is more useful to think of humiliation as a humbling brought about by a fearless and honest self inventory, an inventory that includes any guilt we may have in a given situation. Without admitting our roles, and if need be, guilt, it wouldn't be an honest inventory. And we are all guilty of making mistakes everyday. I've yet to meet one person, AA or not, who has achieved perfection. Shame should not be part of this because we should have dealt with the difference between shame and guilt during our fifth step. Of course this is difficult for a newcomer who has not worked the steps to grasp, but this is why the ninth and tenth steps are the ninth and tenth steps rather than the first or second steps. Sorry for going on so long.


Member: Gloria L.
Location: Evanston, Illinois
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 11:00:18 AM

Comments

Hello everybody. My name is Gloria L. and I am an alcoholic. This is my first time at a cyber meeting and I just want to thank everybody for the comments. I usually leave the house for a meeting but since I am sick, I can't right now. In reference to fear, I can only say that being a member of AA has helped me greatly in this area. Praying daily and stepping out on FAITH is the only way I make it one day at a time. God bless!


Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 11:10:56 AM

Comments

Hey Darwin, Thanks for explaining the difference between guilt and shame. I'm on Step 4 and dealing with a lot of shameful feelings but they really are guilty feelings because I am feeling them over things I did drinking and feel definate remorse and have a desire to make amends for those things. Genuine humility is my goal but it is not a word you hear much these days. Thanks. Kelly :)


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 1:11:01 PM

Comments

Hi. Bill here, alcoholic from Arizona. Good topic A.S. I was filled with low self esteem and fear. Probably one of the reasons I drank. To make myself feel better about myself. Whiskey muscles. At one year, one of my sponsors asked me where I would like to be the same time next year. I didn't know. He then asked if I ever said. "one of these days I will do this, one of these days I will do that" Yep. All I was asked to do was pick one of them and do it. Didn't matter what, just do it. I chose college. Right then and there I found out that AA was becoming more of a start living program than it was a stop drinking program. I was in my 50's. I am a little behind in life. But,I did graduate. Passed two boards. Became successful and published in my field. Coming into AA did not give me the keys to Heaven nor did it send me to Hell. But it did help me to get sober enough to figure out which way I wanted to go. Thank you all for being a part of my sobriety today. Love ya, Bill


Member: Reality Bites
Location:
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 1:19:28 PM

Comments

Kelly the only thing that you should feel guilty and ashamed about is overindulgence of alcohol.The rest of the crap that you are writing down is the same kind of crap that everyone in the world has experienced in day to day life and now you are writing the crap down and nitpicking it to death,for what reason Kelly?To place blame and shame and guilt on yourself for living,it is perfectly ok to place blame on yourself just as long as you take credit for the good things too,dont fall for the everything that bad happens is Kelly's fault and everything that good happens is the result of the program.That is the purpose of the 4th step and that is to brainwash your ass in to accepting that everything bad is Kelly's doings and never ever any good things are Kelly's doings but only the result of the program.


Member: A FACT
Location:
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 1:21:26 PM

Comments

AZ BILL,it is apparent that you have been out in the SUN way too long and have attended way too many meetings.


Member: Brandon
Location:
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 3:51:08 PM

Comments

I feel with low self esteem your going to be alot more likely to relapse.


Member: Steve W
Location:
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 9:44:32 PM

Comments

Simple and to the point, Brandon. So why do we continue to believe those who initially taught us that we were 'no good', 'not good enough', never can be good enough', ect.? There is only one ultimate authority, our Higher Power as we understand it. Mommie, daddie, husband, wife, girl or boy friend, priest, rabbi, good book, movie star, politician.....the first step says that we came to believe we were powerless over alcohol, not that we were powerless over the misguided teaching of any authority figure, however well intentioned. Let's use the program to grow beyond our dependence on ALL things other than our Higher Power.


Member: Michelle M.
Location: Akron,Ohio
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 10:42:34 PM

Comments

Hi am AA Member. And I have been clean for a year now since the 17 of this month and really proud of myself. I have came along way. I had my first lead last Friday and it was a great feeling. I loved it. I can't wait until I do my next one. I think I need more poeple that I can help so I can help myself. The more I help the more I feel better about myself and it is a great feeling. I want to give my e-mail out so if anyone needs to talk please e-mail me at chelebear30@webtv.net


Member: sunny s
Location: CA
Date: 9/30/2003
Time: 11:23:58 PM

Comments

Self Esteem is earned. I didn't earn it so I felt like the piece of crap at the center of the universe before I did the steps. Yeah, a lot of bad things happened to me in life. Yeah, a lot of other people were jerks. Yeah they were completely and toatlly wrong a lot of times. But, my self esteem is about me. I didn't know how to behave when other people ticked me off or hurt me. I was always shooting my self in the butt and thinking it was your fault! Continuing to do my own dang inventory, admitting when I'm wrong, asking HP for guidance, and thanking HP for anything good I'm able to do in life have given me a whole new basis for esteeming myself. And when I'm not, my sponsor or AA friends, or even sponsees remind me it is all about one day at a time trying to do HP's will. A feeling of well being and goodness comes from that. Beyond that, I had to reprogram my thinking with affirmations. One that I found brought me to tears and it has done the same for others who didn't find self esteem after doing the steps several times. "I disolve in my mind and in the minds of all others any idea that my own good can be withheld from me. I accept and claim my highest divine good now." Credit goes to Catherine Ponder and "The Prospering Power of Prayer." I also like 'All is well. Divine Love is in Charge." And when I have a hard time saying "Your will not mine" I can add "Let the highest Divine Good be done in this situation." I'd say get a sponsor and work the steps. If the sponsor isn't loving enough to help you see your good points as well as your pesky defects...get one who is! Get busy and earn your own dang esteem!


Member: RickP
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 12:37:53 AM

Comments

"fear,insecurity and low self esteem" In response to: Member: a.s. Location: uk Date: 9/28/2003 Time: 7:08:25 AM I was troubled with this long before I drank. In my years (30) of drinking I had a false sense of security, but when I stopped I realized I was way back to when this was a big problem for me. I'm early again now. But in past periods of sobriety, I found that time and help from sober friends securety slowly was returning. I don't thump the Big Book as others do. I see it as a history book. Perhaps a doctorine to follow. Unfortunatly, it has been misinterped through the years (as many doctrines have been) to fit many new beliefs. I would love to go to a meeting conducted as Bill and Bob intended. Related only as our lives as related to alcoholism. Not a woe is me, I have it worse than you, cry session. When I speak at a meeting I speak of things that made me think about having a drink. Not the cops are after me for whatever, what should I do? My answer to that: the lawyers meeting is down the hall. See ya. Very seldom do I hear, This is my problem and I feel like just drinking over it. That is what AA is all about. If you have something that has to do with your alcoholism, then, we will help as best as we can. I choose always to use my expieriences. (1st person, singular) in my responces. Sorry, I guess I got to rambling. But I feel better now. Rick Dawg_Rick@hotmail.com


Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 4:53:44 AM

Comments

When I came to A.A. I felt and knew deep inside that I was a dismal failure, I had lost every thing, and was living it seemed only to drink, yet my pride was at its up most, and I would tell any body that wanted to know, " that I was living my life just the way I wanted and I was not hurting any body." Right off the get-go I had to admit that my life was unmanagable, and rather than have that depress me. it made me feel a part off, If I would have con't. as I had been I would never have been able to do the first step. My life took on low self esteem when I was 2 1/2 years sober and at step seven. I found I had no purpose in my life and I diden't know who I was..... eat, work, sleep, and go to A.A. I knew that there had to be more than that. My sponsor ask me " who are you when your asleep and if you had no name? he ask if there was no money or competition in this world what would be my purpose? I have now answered those questions and no one could have given me the answer except myself. I can now live one day at a time at peace with myself - my fellow man - and a God of my understanding. And to my friend AZbill I notice some one mentioned that you go to to many meetings. and yes we both know what happens when we go to to many mettings ..... We stay sober and get happy, eh.


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 9:29:43 AM

Comments

One of the gifts I received from doing my fifth step was that the pastor with whom I did the step told me I needed to take a more balanced look at myself. He said an honest moral inventory includes the good things about myself and not just the bad. I do have a tendency to be too hard on myself. If I forget his advice, my daily moral inventory tends to be, "I did this, this, and that wrong," with no mention of all the things I did right. Maybe when we are suffering from low self esteem, that is our higher power's way of telling us we are not valuing our positive aspects. Maybe when we feel this way we should make a conscious effort to focus on those positive aspects when we do our tenth step meditations. It is clear to me that those who have commented about suffering from low self esteem have many positive apsects to their personality and their lives. Only good people worry about trying to be good people. If it is not clear to you who suffer, perhaps that is because you are focusing too much on the negative. Cut yourself some slack, give your positive aspects the respect they deserve, and you might find your self esteem improves. I'll pray for you.


Member: Mam Pur
Location: Vietnam
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 9:49:19 AM

Comments

Thanks Ron L. of Canada for your sharing. What struck me most is about those deep philosophical questions that your sponsor told you. And I am happy that you found your answers to make you feel good about your sobriety. I have been in situations that people humiliated, embarassed annoyed , etc, because I am different from them economically, racially, culturally, physically, intellectually, etc. But living in this world primarily depends of class distinctions and status. Poor people are treated poorly because of the morality and the scapegoatism that society needs inorder for the majority to bond more. So if you live in a bourgeiose culture and you are poor, out dated, and especially do not belong to their "race of humans" if you know what I mean, then you are of course to be ostracized. Don't get me wrong I've seen poor people treat other poor people poorly believe me I've been in worst ghetto conditions, but that's because people from the ghetto's, the 3rd World and even people who are organized to live a vow of poverty are for the most part are working for their masters who controls and set up the standard values within the given society. So they still function in the "insiders" "outsiders" games that they have learned early in life in order to survive. Your moral validation depends upon your productivity, I've seen this especially in families. If you won't believe this just look at the prison population who are there, mostly poor people and minorities. This is the world we live in, now if you think you could live like Walden in his Pond, fine but as long as you want to survive in civilization this is the reality and you have to know people's games of hypocrisy so that you could not be eaten alive by predators and the Superiority-complex people who controls and has the whole mob and class of powerful people behind their backs. I've seen them a lot of who are the "Insiders" people in AA rooms. Right now I'm feeling guilty because I am proud in saying all this, that it's right for me to be ashame of myself, to feel insecure because of my truths and social standing of what I made of myself, that I'm afraid because of the treatment that I have received from people because of saying things like this, that the only way for me to feel good and be accepted to others is that not to have any intellectual thoughts for myself and to think of me as nothing, my reality, to moralize on myself to feel my limitations all the time as if this is my safe place in my dealings with others. My HIgher Power,the Group, The Steps and Traditions, those are my true abode not myself and my truths because they leave my in a rut of fear, insecurities, and ostracizations.


Member: mav
Location: truth
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 10:18:34 AM

Comments

Ronl and azbill are deeply mistaken. Most who go to many meetings are anything but happy or they wouldn't have to be at those silly meetings all the time. How do I know that? Beacuase I am one of the many who don't go to hardly any meetings and couldn't possibly live the happy, full life that I do if I went to those regurgitation sessions repeatedly. It's simple, don't drink and move on to real life as it's NOT found in those meeting rooms every single day of your life--that's just silly to say so.....


Member: SMURF
Location: Meeechygan
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 11:17:21 AM

Comments

Hello everyone, my name is Mike and I am an alcoholic. I think the topic is still "fear, insecurity and low self-esteem." What can I contribute from my own experience? The old timers spoke of the first step being "total self-deflation". Hitting bottom is what I believe they were referring to. In and out of sobriety, I have struggled with the issue of self-confidence. This problem certainly pre-dated my disease. And in AA, I was taught that I had to surrender. I struggled with what I sometimes saw as a conflict between my huge need to feel "OK" about myself and "self-deflation". In fact, I still struggle with this. My old sponsor told me I would never stay sober as long as I held onto this "character defect" and that I had obviously not yet hit my bottom if I could not accept total self-deflation. Today, my conclusion is that true self confidence comes from success and that I need the help of my higher power to experience that. I admit that I do not have the power to stay sober, or to avoid the many manifestation of this disease of self. But today I can believe and know that I also have the right to feel good about myself as a person. I have accomplished many things and done many things, just as I have experienced failures. I am, like everyone else I have ever met, an imperfect but highly valuable creation. A creation of god.


Member: I believe you Maverick One
Location:
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 12:23:04 PM

Comments

Maverick tells it like it is, eh.


Member: david g.
Location: NM
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 12:56:50 PM

Comments

i had to get honest abut my drinking, my thinking, and my behavior before i could stay sober. the Big Book says we "must" or "it kills us" i thought aa was a cult and would never work for me but it's not (i checked) and it has work and will continue to work if i do the work. my behavior is improving and even my thinking has improved, gradually...please keep coming back. i'll shut up now and you will be grateful.


Member: Larry R.
Location: Washington
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 1:29:50 PM

Comments

Well its been three weeks plus sober for me, and I'm feeling better both mentally and physically! Reading your comments, and realizing how "common" my specific situation is has realy helped. I'm off to enjoy another SOBER day!


Member: lisa b
Location: pa
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 2:36:31 PM

Comments

mynameislisa you can help be, I just got out of a abusive relaltioship and ineed help please can you please


Member: for real
Location:
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 3:18:05 PM

Comments

anything will work if you work it,even choosing noit to drink and that can be doen without altering your brain


Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston, WV
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 3:25:19 PM

Comments

Inventorys And Hard work. Most of us seem to be afraid of STEPS 4-7


Member: day day day
Location: say say say
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 3:30:56 PM

Comments

Fear insecurity and low self esteem; How do you rid yourself of them? Well I'll tell you what I did to silence anyone according to my conduct, I picked up the bible and began to conform myself to it insomuch as I could and who then could become a gainsayer to such a one that has not the precepts of man for his measure but the precepts of God! He is above all even to the heathen his word has the last laugh as it were and no one can put a higher order of things before such a one that has layed hold onto the word of God he is altogether righteous and fear insecurity and low self esteem must shut its mouth as well Yea the bible surpasses all books one might look to on the shelf and sad to say its often the last choice and herein is the humility that God gives grace to as he resists the proud who look to self help and the like He'll lite your candle for he opens and no man closes closes and no man opens and even the big book thumper must bow to that!..


Member: BABE
Location:
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 3:56:04 PM

Comments

When i would bombard the pot with my opinions and confrontations; i got a bad feeling in my conscience, (sorry cant spell it)... i am very grateful that i have a conscience today, and that i am able to pay some attention to it, as it is my guide to serenity.... when i drugged/drank....i lost it for the most part.. sociopathic behaviour is probably an inability to have a conscience....and appropriate feelings about wrongdoings.... and a general inability to have feelings and normal reactions to the things that provoke emotion in well adjusted people. i think i was borderline sociopathic, as i was put through all kinds of fun stuff growing up,that made me shut down big time,,,it was scary when the day came and i could see how empty and emotionless i was and even weirder when i first had to try to learn to "feel things" very strange.. asking yourself,,, "how am i suppose to feel?.... how would a normal person feel in this situation..etc.etc...it was weird to be faking it all the time, but that's what they told me to do, and they were kind in telling me that's what they did and that it was okay to try)) see there i go...a tear is starting in my eyes already)) .... now im the biggest baby at times.... balling over little house on the prarie type stuff at the drop of a hat.... and it feels soooo goood!..... there was a time when i was very worried about myself;...i thought i would never give a shit about anything in the world or anyone ever again....FOLKS when a child grows up in an abusive environment and is subjected to alcoholism,,physical/sexual abuse of every kind, it can make them an absolute monster...and i was.... i never understood why some people just didn't want anything to do with me..... good people; citizens of society kind of people.. i just didn't get it....it was very painful to discover that my upbringing had made a creepy monster out of me... and then to top it off, what the hell was i going to do about it?... i didn't even know where to start...aa gave me alot in this area...i got to practice caring for others, until i really did care for them... and later i got to see new people come in and were like shining examples of what i no longer was.. a good reminder, and of course i knew what to say to them,,,, whether they listened or not was not the point,,,the point was that they had heard what i said...and it was in their 'goody bag, for when the happy day might come and they could put it to good use for themselves......


Member: Babe watcher
Location:
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 5:34:17 PM

Comments

Babe,you are the ultimate bombarder and we appreciate it so very much. Joe B.,work the damn steps and get it done,all it takes is once and then you can talk about and debate them for a lifetime if you dont smarten up and leave AA.


Member: mav
Location: for the babewatcher
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 5:39:02 PM

Comments

She's trying to speak to me in code, we have a little "history." God Bless her as she has at least found the strengtyh and courage to move on in life from the insidiousness of the "fellowship" and all it's evils, but I suspect she may have relapsed(meaning she started going to the damned meetings again). Pray for her as she's one of the good one's, she's just mad at me and trying to incite me. Babygirl, I will not take the bait, so try all you want, I still love ya hon, just don't think you're on to what you think you are, but hey who's to say, ey girlygirl?


Member: Babewatcher
Location: say it aint so
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 6:32:19 PM

Comments

Babe,I am sorry that you have relapsed and started attending meetings again as the Mav has so cleverly picked up on.Just say it aint so.My heart bleeds for you babe.


Member: Rarely
Location: Northern Canada
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 8:29:20 PM

Comments

The Minister said if you don't stop drinking you will go to hell. The Cops said if you don't stop drinking you will go to jail. The Doctor said if you don't stop drinking you will die. The Shrink said if you don't stop drinking you will go crazy. My ex-wife said if you don't stop drinking she would leave me. Some idiot posted all you have to do is stop drinking. Well who is going to tell me how to stop drinking if its not the members of A.A. at an A.A. meeting? Then a while back some fool said the way to stop drinking would be by going to a show with my friends, All my friends are drinkers I just want to puke when I hear stuff comming out of the mouths of those who don't understand,


Member: SuzyQ
Location: Stafford Springs,Ct
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 8:36:28 PM

Comments

Steps 3 and 4 were the answer to my selfcentered selfobsession.I was an ego-maniac with an inferiority complex.I was gracious,kind,longsuffering and very,very bitter that They didn't do what I,in my infinate wisdom,knew was best for all.Peace and serenity are mine when I face the truth about myself,and turn all that garbage over to my higher power.Try the third step prayer(pg 63 of the BB)every day.Trust in a higher power,clean house and help another alcoholic.You'll be ok.


Member: Charlie
Location: A World where Dreams can come true
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 9:08:51 PM

Comments

I like what I am reading, mostly because of moralizers and grateful people, what do they say, "An ounce of loyalty is worth more than a pound of cleverness". Cliche's like you cannot change people places and things but only yourself, I cannot change how people treat me but I can change how my attitude in how I deal with it. I see these strong and accepted people who are good at humiliating and embarassing people who are different so that everybody around would be happy and win over their fear of something that they are not familiar and are ignorant with, because they are people with country bumpkin hill billy mentality, a kind of like those guy in that Kubrick Film, "Dr. Strangelove and How I learned To Love the Bomb", the one who thought that the bomb was his wild horse in a rodeo, yes these kind of people, they are happy this way, but I see I could not change them. They have been brought up like that and that they are mostly the bullies that other weaker ones worship and adhere to, so, as the cliche goes, "If you can't beat them , then join them!" I am beginning to learn now how they think, why they are inherently hostile, subtly aggressive and violent, their xenophobia and Institutionalized Paranoia and power hungry control issues in order for me to function and be accepted, at least I'm learning slowly but surely. I know one day I shall get my respect and not anymore be a picked on stupid wimp. I see a lot of people work that way to where they are right now, it's not too late for me to become a human being and get the respect I need to be counted as one.


Member: Sue
Location: home
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 9:20:12 PM

Comments

How I treat people should come from who I am,not who they are...


Member: Thaddeus R
Location: Atlanta
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 10:45:07 PM

Comments

Being sober allows me to feel. As I work the I can identify and sometimes understand my feeling. Low self esteem, fearful and depression were present in the beginning of the road to recovery. As I worked the steps according to the fellowship of AA, I realized that I started to feel better and better about myself. Life for me has gotten better as a whole. Feeling less than has diminished, my good days are more than my bad ones. Trudging the road of happy destiny is not an overnight event and I realize that no matter how I feel today, if I do not take a drink I just might feel better tomorrow.


Member: Chaz M.
Location: South Jersey
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 10:55:27 PM

Comments

Chaz here. I am a grateful recovering addict and alcoholic, as well as a Social Worker/Substance abuse counselor. Low self-esteem can be debilitating. Pat yourself on the back each night for you have gone another day without putting poison in your body. I find random acts of kindness make me feel great. I remember once I was walking down the street and a distressed man on a pay phone was desperately seeking more change for what seemed like an important call. he was asking everyone who passed if they had change of a dollar. i dug into my pocket and counted my change. I was short, but I gave the guy the change I had. He was so grateful. It cost me cents to make this guy's day. And who knows how far out the ripple of good vibes spread. Perhaps he will do something kind to a stranger or the person on the other end will do so. I hold doors open for people. I am quick to light a stranger's cigarette. And I focus on my strengths. Seeking help is a strength that many do not have. Find the good in you. Do good to be well.


Member: social
Location: what?
Date: 10/1/2003
Time: 11:14:13 PM

Comments

Damn Chaz, you're a social worker too, just joeyjoejoe from chicago. Just as damn dumb to as lighting up someone's cigarette and helping them kill themselves is far from doing a random act of kindness you dumbass! More like a random act of cruelty and evil, tahnks alot pal for reminding me of just how stupid you social worker bastards can be. You're probably a dumbass democratic loser too, right?


Member: BABE Batchelorette
Location: "workin the social'
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 12:29:10 AM

Comments

Hi Chaz...((giggle)) blink blink,. bat bat bat... hello...


Member: SuzyQ
Location: Ct
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 4:41:44 AM

Comments

Thank you Thaddeus and Chad for your shares about your honest journey of recovery.I'm new here at this meeting and was having trouble keeping in mind that we are not a bunch of healthy people gathering together to make our great lives better.Some are sicker than others and I need to pray that I don't become angry.Keeping our 3rd tradition in mind,I will do just that this morning.May you all find peace on your spiritual journey...


Member:
Location:
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 11:57:47 AM

Comments

Can damn sure tell you're new too from youir parroting posts suzyq. ---yack wack!


Member: Gloria L.
Location: Evanston, Illinois
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 12:07:32 PM

Comments

Sunny S from California thanks for reminding us that anything worth having is worth fighting for! Self esteem is produced by a continual affirmation to one's self. Whether you choose to be positive or negative is totally up to you. I drank and drugged so I didn't have to deal with feelings of inferiority and insecurity and when I finally got clean I was an emotional wreck. The program and its members have taught me that it's okay to have feelings (positive or negative)but what I choose to do with them is what really matters. One AA member once told me that fear is only an acronym for Face Everything And Recover. I fall short on a daily basis but one day at a time things get better.


Member: Gloria L.
Location: Evanston, Illinois
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 12:13:00 PM

Comments

Sunny S from California thanks for reminding us that anything worth having is worth fighting for! Self esteem is produced by a continual affirmation to one's self. Whether you choose to be positive or negative is totally up to you. I drank and drugged so I didn't have to deal with feelings of inferiority and insecurity and when I finally got clean I was an emotional wreck. The program and its members have taught me that it's okay to have feelings (positive or negative)but what I choose to do with them is what really matters. One AA member once told me that fear is only an acronym for Face Everything And Recover. I fall short on a daily basis but one day at a time things get better.


Member: Gloria L.
Location: Evanston, Illinois
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 12:13:02 PM

Comments

Sunny S from California thanks for reminding us that anything worth having is worth fighting for! Self esteem is produced by a continual affirmation to one's self. Whether you choose to be positive or negative is totally up to you. I drank and drugged so I didn't have to deal with feelings of inferiority and insecurity and when I finally got clean I was an emotional wreck. The program and its members have taught me that it's okay to have feelings (positive or negative)but what I choose to do with them is what really matters. One AA member once told me that fear is only an acronym for Face Everything And Recover. I fall short on a daily basis but one day at a time things get better.


Member: BABE
Location: taking off the gloves......
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 2:24:43 PM

Comments

Does anybody else really care about a man, who thinks he might know what a 'real lady is" and the next time he opens his mouth, out comes this dog dirty filth? ya; that's what i thought; me too. here sweetheart: let me help you; ((its called EGO honey; EGO... and yours has become your anisthetic for your stupidity; 'ironically your pet name for everyone else)) how sad is that? guess you just don't get it huh? you come here and pull a daily shift, on telling others how dumb and stupid they are.... your halarious honey)) let me spell it out for ya; as you don't seem to be able to put it together for yourself: <<To call people stupid, dumb, and show them all your superiority over them all, and then turn around and lick thier boots.. is a bit creepy sweetheart... >> okay... do you comprende' muchachos?....i scincerely don't care whether it helps you or not.... some people are better off dead, as they are in constant pain and suffering,,,my hope for you is that you are drinking, at least you'll get some relief from the obvious agony your experiencing; for how long now?...hey pal; if you get to year 3 with it, i would suggest harry carry.


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 3:35:47 PM

Comments

Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Thanks, A.S. for speaking up about what's really bothering you. That takes guts, willingness and a desire to stay sober. A real recipe for success, if you ask me. In my own head, I was the worst of the worst, full of fear that you'd find out the real deal about me and then you'd turn me away. That made it hard to get 'real' with anyone (big-time fear). Things that helped me: I heard in a meeting about I'm not a 'bad' person trying to get 'better'; I'm a 'sick' person trying to get 'well'. Getting it into my head that I'm NOT BAD, I'm SICK helped put a little more positive slant on things. Taking the steps 'off the wall' and putting them to work in my life helped alot. And one of the best actions for me - imagine feeling the opposite of those negative things, then ask God for help and trying to act like I've already got the help. You know, I LIKE some of the sayings we throw around. Ex: If you keep on doing what you're doing, you'll keep on getting what you're getting. Which means for me that if I CHANGE, things will too. If I don't take action and change, I'll remain miserable. I believe misery is optional today. Thanks, ALL, for being here.


Member:
Location:
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 5:33:11 PM

Comments

thw babe is nuts, nuts, nuts..............


Member:
Location:
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 5:33:52 PM

Comments

i likesssss it ALOTTT!!!!! Yowwwwwwwwww........


Member:
Location:
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 5:58:06 PM

Comments

damn, i think susan just took the award for parrot of the year away from it's current titleholder, crazykelly---hand it over girl, you've been beaten out by another even more UNoriginal than yourself....keep on trying though.....you can steal win it back...


Member: Rust Limbo
Location: what goes around comes around
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 7:03:38 PM

Comments

Fear and insecurity,...good topic. When I walk into the doors of A.A.,- (very dramatic phrase),I see some people who are old timers that are the big shots of the group, the guys who are the real "insiders" and I just wonder if I ever get into their place and position. They don't have any fear and insecurity and they are the the ones that a new comer should look out and please if you want to be accepted. But they teach me about real life, that I'm "ON" because I don't have the qualties that needs be to be with the people who determines who are "ON" or not, and how I envy them. I see their kind in the real world and everybody is with them when they start power tripping on you and put you "on". They are the people who says to others that they are making fun of you because they have the Power, they are the chief Predators, for some this is how they make their living. They judge you because they are moral people and you are immoral like the strategy of one of their High Prince- Limbugh that drug addict. If you can only know about their lives you will know how more screwed -up these moralists are. But in the real world that doesn't really count, what counts is when the time that they could put you down and break your spirit and humiliate you in public. Because for them no matter what you do you are their scapegoat and like the devils who torture poor souls in hell they take up these roles, and are always laughing exactly like the devils themselves when they torture souls. I thought it was only a fable, something that only happens in comic books, but the truth is that it is actually what is happening in reality. These people are demons and they know that they are that's why they could make you afraid, ashame and fearful because they have the power over you. Actually if only other people would right away fight and rebuke these demons when they do their 'act of popularity' they would not have been successful but for the most part these demons are even encouraged, admired and approved and their oppression towards others are for the most part ignored. They live in hell but as the pictures depict in books they are happy in hell for their chief roles is to torture souls. I am happy that I am insecure and anxious and fearful at least I know I am not like those devils. For those of you who are not members of The "LEGIONS" of Hypocrisy you know what Im talking here is the truth, even the devils themselves know that this is the truth.


Member: TOM M.
Location: South Carolina
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 9:22:59 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Tom. For 12 years, I've been finding all of my 'friends' in the bottom of a bottle. Now, I've decided that I need to quit drinking in order to survive. I tried it alone but found myself unable to do it. I think I was scared to lose my friends. I've found that my 'friends' could care less if live or die. So I've come to AA for help in my quest for sobriety. It is very scary here in 'soberville' if you will. konda like moving to a new town or a new job. so, I'm reaching out to you. hopefully, i can help you as much as you help me. THANKS,TOM


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 10:06:11 PM

Comments

Tom, I wish you well in your recovery. I hope this isn't the only form of AA you are pursuing. If you have found a good meeting, or preferably, meetings, you know what I'm talking about. But it's critical to find a good meeting. Each meeting has a unique personality, the sum total of the members of the group. Apparently some suffering souls on this list have had very bad experiences with groups. As you can tell from their posts, their programs are not working very effectively. For about a year I was involved in a genuinely bad NA group, dominated by mentally unhealthy individuals who were more interested in pursuing their own defects of character than embodying the twelve traditions and practicing the twelve steps. Had that been my only experience with recovery, I might have become as disillusioned as some of the posters on this list. But I was fortunate to have been a part of other terrific groups before, and I am part of a fantastic group right now. At your stage of recovery, it is critical that you find a good supportive group that embodies the twelve traditions and focuses on the twelve steps. My prayers are with you.


Member: Tom M
Location: SC
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 10:29:35 PM

Comments

(Darwin) Thanks for the support. I'm still looking for a group(s) locally to join. Have found a few that I'll try this weekend. Will keep posted. THANKS


Member: The 3 bears.....
Location: looking for Tom....
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 11:30:33 PM

Comments

((TOM)) aka...goldilocks... i like it sweetheart! whoo hoo ... i almost fell off my chair when i read about your dangerous liasons pal.... like to extend you a welcome wagon free pass to the pink cloud".... an extra special discount cuppon to fantasy land. also included is your "alkies r us" hat.... and the code" and please tom.. the proceedure is to memorize it and destroy the evidence. So welcome... i officially great you with the secret handshake... read the book, go to meetings, get a spider ...opps sponsor.. and a spider if you like... and say your prayers honey....


Member: typo..........
Location:
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 11:37:21 PM

Comments

opps.....that's "greet you".... greet you....not great you.... i hate it when that happens....


Member: Kam V
Location: OC, CA
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 11:48:42 PM

Comments

My name is Kam V from OC CA and i am an alcoholic. I couldnt make my meeting tonight so i am here. God bless all you guys. Let's keep workin the program and spreading the message. The illness has got me for life and that's why i need all of you for life. Alcoholism cannot be rationalized with that's why we need a higherpower to restore us to sanity. Each day this is what i seek. When i think i have it i am usually in trouble. I am here to tell you i dont have it. I need help and i cant do this alone. I am 7 yrs clean and sober and sometimes i still have to admit this to progress. Going througha bit of pain at the moment. And i know it's rooted in my self centredness. God bless all you guys again. Gotta go. keep comin


Member: al a
Location: conn.
Date: 10/2/2003
Time: 11:49:22 PM

Comments

dont laff but i got a crack whore problem i cant stay away from them any advice


Member: tom
Location:
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 12:17:14 AM

Comments

Thanks 3 bears. And to think that I don't even like porridge.


Member: Tom C.
Location: Fowler, Ca.
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 5:23:45 AM

Comments

This is my first day sober. I stay in a little tiny hole out in the "boonies". I have beer and very depressing music that I use to feel sorry for myself. I've lost every single thing, that I cared anything about, in my life (except, of course, the alcohol). I've lost the kids, the wife, the house, the job and especially all my self-esteem. The topic really suits me right now. There cannot be too many people who have been on the losing streak that I have been on. Last night, I actually cried. Jesus man - I just could not stop. I was compelled to write two e-mails to people (past employers) who I really screwed over. I don't expect them to ever reply. I can't sleep or eat anymore. There is something inside that is just killing me. It's regret and shame - and there just isn't any way out. I can't see any of my kids right now. Can't look em' in the eye. I can't seem to do what the wife wants, either. Told her I'd go back to A.A. eventually. Yes, it's been a seven year binge. And, I never made it back. That's where I met my fourth wife. She had four children for me in the last five years. And, to show her how much I approved of her - I proceeded to drink every single thing into oblivion. I decided last night to just stop. I've made it one day. I'm not ready to go out into the world yet. I'll have to shave and take a shower. But, after I do that, I'm going to go into town and find a real live meeting to attend. I've been "tweakin" on this computer for about three weeks straight. So, I decided to find this web-site tonight. I'm glad to find it. There will be many times, when I am all alone, and I will need tools like this one. Bless You All!


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 8:38:55 AM

Comments

Hi Tom C. You wrote: "There cannot be too many people who have been on the losing streak that I have been on." Tom, I have noticed a common thread among many people who suffer from repeated relapses. They tend to see themselves as terminally different from the rest of us. From my point of view, the only thing different about most of them is that they define themselves as different. None of us got to AA because our lives were going swimmingly well. We all had to hit bottom before we were willing to admit that our lives had become unmanageable. We all know how you are suffering right now, and we are all praying for you. But it sounds like you'll need more than prayers. Is there any way you can get into a treatment program? Trying to do this by yourself while stuck in "a tiny hole out in the boonies" is not a recipe for success. I know--I've been there. Please find a meeting. It will help, and you might be able to get some good advice on finding a treatment facility.


Member: Rust Limbo
Location: Chief Guardian ArchAngel of the Garden Of Eden
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 9:56:39 AM

Comments

Hi there Darwin of Minnessotta, could you please read the introduction on top of the lists that you are talking about? It says this is not a chat room and you my friend had been acting like a chairperson who cross talks everybody most of the times judging people of what they are saying as "Bad" recovery or "good" recovery so that you could advertise yourself to others that you are the "MAN". You are the type of people that loves attention and are the chief moralizers whom tells lies a lot about how good they are doing to win approval of the group then exercise his "moral authority". Don't be self-centered and greedy okay? This kind of attitude mostly wins in the real world but it also corrupts, which I know even underneath the approval from others you my friend know what I'm talking about. Why don't you try emphatizing for a change okay if you are really that spiritual?


Member: lastgasper
Location: surfinthru
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 11:08:52 AM

Comments

I've yet to figure out how a bunch of raging insecure egomaniacs engaging in a cyber pissing contest carries a message of hope to the still suffering alcoholic...you fuckin guys ever think of anybody but yourselves? Mav...go back to the bar, where you get judged on style points! good guys...peace out.


Member: Tammy H.
Location: Oklahoma
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 11:11:06 AM

Comments

Hello my name is Tammy and this is my first on-line meeting. I would like to comment on what Tom had to say. When I came in to this program I had lost everything. My children were gone, my home, my husband, everything that I loved. Then I found this program it is teaching me to let go of the guilt and realize that everthing that happened was for a reason. it took what it took to get me here. I am so grateful today My kids are back with me we have a home, and though I still have to deal with some of the results from the wreckage of my past. I have a higher power holding my hand and leading me through it. Thanks for letting me share


Member: Richard W
Location: MD
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 11:23:02 AM

Comments

While it is significant to acknowledge the higher power, you continue to have the responsibility to exercise control over your behavior ... the ability to that, and the will to choose sobriety as your lifestyle ... are the gifts of the higher power. But it falls to you to exercise good judgement and to use your God given ability to choose.


Member: Dawn
Location: NY
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 4:19:20 PM

Comments

Low self esteem is huge for me I feel as if I have done and do everything wrong...bottom line it is all about respect. If you respect yourself and your sobriety others will too. I tend to surround myself with people or at least try to...that respect me and my sobriety. I beleive no one person can make you feel anything...you feel the way you do because its internal not external...being around positive people helps but the work must be done inside of you. FAR too many people base esteem or self worth on SUPERFICIAL things...like looks money status etc...and these things may be temporary in making a person feel good....they do one thing in time...they fade and what you are left with is the real person you are. I think that if you make a list of your attributes and think of things in the day that are positive or concentrate on the good that you do it will help build your self esteem. People who look to external measures for happiness or self worth are never really happy. I am a single mom with three little ones to look after and found that the greatest joys in life are free and the beauty that lays in a person is the true riches of life. It really makes me sad to see people who have "things" and never will realize the good they have in them because they are so drowned in the material sense. ANyway I have chatted too long...being my normal self. Daily practice of self respect and self seeking goodness and surrounding yourself with people who truly care for you and not what you can do for them is key.


Member: TOM M
Location: South Carolina
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 5:45:43 PM

Comments

Hello Everyone, I'm back for another day of sobriety. I called an old friend today. We haven't talked in almost a year. Why? Because I thought that he was just some 'dirty old drunk' I recently realized that I was no different. So I called to say "I'm Sorry!!!" As it turns out, he's also in AA now, been sober almost 9 months. He had a stroke and spent two months in ICU. Anyway, instead of judging me or bitchin' me out, he gave me some kind words of advice and said he would pray for my sobriety. This lifted my spirits so much. Just goes to show, ' Never too late to say I'm sorry.' You never know what might happen. So I'm going to renew an old friendship on new grounds this weekend. Instead of a friendship based on drunkeness, we can base it own sobriety. The 12 Steps and 12 Traditions do work. That's enough yapping from me. I should let someone else share now. THANKS


Member: Mark
Location: NC
Date: 10/3/2003
Time: 10:39:21 PM

Comments


Member: D.J.
Location: Cocoa Bch., FL.
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 12:03:15 AM

Comments

Hi Guys, In regard to the topic, the one sayings I've heard over the years that always stuck with me was***you teach people how to treat you**** in conjuction with "fake it till you make it" might be a start. God Bless, D.J.


Member: Robin W
Location: Georgetown, SC
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 1:18:42 AM

Comments

Hi everyone,Robin Alcoholic, I too suffered severely when I came into the doors of AA--then absent alcohol I seem to get worse instead of better...now that I wasn't numb or in the state of oblivion which I had preferred for so many years, since I didn't know how to live sober. Thank God and AA the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking...if anything else had be required I would have been the lost ball in high weeds. As I have come to learn this new way of life I have found that no wonder I was so afraid and insecure! Self proposion drove me right in the ground, everything I ever did I without advice,prayer or even considering how it would effect others around me. I was a selfish ,self-centered ego driven maniac ripping through the lives of others like a tornado, yet, I could not figure out why they all hated me and I hated myself...I had good intentions, a good heart...after all I was just trying to get my own needs met in this dog eat dog world! I was a miserable failure! filled with fear--of ever sort,which always boiled down to Fear I was not going to get something that I wanted or that I was going to lose something I already had. The miserable failure of self will run riot-- drink to oblivion that I was, was the source of all my insecurities! I had to admit defeat,give up,ask for help, first I begged for help from God that I did not know out of desperation, not virtue.and by some series of coincidence...:) I ended up in an AA meeting, I have been taught that AA is a GOD help Program not a Self help program, and many of the things I hope to get like self sufficiency and self confidence are total liabilities to me...I am no longer a self will run riot,dependent on alcohol to be able to face the day...Today I am dependant on a loving God and a fellowship of loving people who have been where I have been and are willing to go to any length to help me "if I want help". AA bigbook teaches me who I am and what I am, what my part is and what God's part is and I have found that I have not encountered any problem so big that My sponsor, God and the bigbook could not help me solve with a peaceful resolution. They told me "you don't have to live that way anymore--if you don't want to" the alcoholic life was the only life I knew, AA has given me a design for living so far beyond anything I could ever comprehend when I got here...and I found that niether AA nor God made very hard terms, instead they met me where I was at! Know that God Loves you and I love you and I believe I speak for thousands more that have loved me sober through the years... I once saw a comic strip painted on the wall of an AA room that had a sponsor speaking to the newcomer, He says" So you'er alcoholic...don't think less of yourself--think of yourself-less. I had no faith when I got here my prayer were cries of desperation, I had no faith in people either, my willingness to try what they told me also came from desperation, yet each time they told me to try something...Don't drink, just today. Get a sponsor, call your sponsor, read the big book, don't try to do this think on your own, ask God for help in the morning and thank him at night...I did what they said and Low and behold it worked, and it has been working now for a number of years... that's when my faith developed, I took the action and I got the promised results!!!!I know longer live by "blind Faith" I have a faith that works under ALL circumstances, Even if you think you'er different...like I did try it...if you are as much as lush, sot,drunk and loser as I was when I got here you probably don't have anything to lose but that old prideful delusion that I can do all right on my own thank you...just keep coming and reaching out and we'll love you til you can learn to love yourself...and remember this If you keep doing what you been doing you will keep getting what you've been getting...


Member: Bo Ang
Location: China
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 11:57:10 AM

Comments

I'm grateful to read Dawn of NY was saying. I do think that when we are fearful and afraid it's because our conscience and the external environment are bothering us for the things we have done and I need to do something about it, by making my amends and peace. I have to start being responsible for the things I have done, it's not too late for me even though I'm already middle age. I know right now I'm suffering the consequences of my past acts but I have to accept these things as the consequences (I know it's redundant) because this is the only way I could be free from them in not making the same mistakes again. HOwever sadly for the most part even if I know the problem and is suffering the consequences of it I am still powerless over it that it's really up to my Higher Powers (multiple gods and deities and spirits). All I have to do is to live life One day at a time and acceptance is the key to my fear and insecurities.


Member: Dennis
Location: PA
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 4:30:33 PM

Comments

Hi Tom M, and good going on another sober 24. hat's great your friend is doing so well, too. Bo Ang, thanks for your post. You siad it so well- we have to make amends and peace, and we can do it with the help of our Higher Power ("multiple gods and dieties and spirits"). No matter what we call It, we need the help "from above". I have hope and pray for another sober 24 for us all.


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 4:31:58 PM

Comments

thanks for everything posted this week everyone,i have been reading all week and am now using my direct line to MY higher power.a god of my understanding,its strange trying to pray formally and instead i decided to just give him(her)a name of his own and chat to him just as i would a pal.something is happening and i am not going to question what,i am ddoing my best and i,m positive he is too.have a great rest of the week and i,ll catch the new topic after work tomorrow.love ya all.soberiety rocks dudes!!!


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 4:32:00 PM

Comments

thanks for everything posted this week everyone,i have been reading all week and am now using my direct line to MY higher power.a god of my understanding,its strange trying to pray formally and instead i decided to just give him(her)a name of his own and chat to him just as i would a pal.something is happening and i am not going to question what,i am ddoing my best and i,m positive he is too.have a great rest of the week and i,ll catch the new topic after work tomorrow.love ya all.soberiety rocks dudes!!!


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 4:32:01 PM

Comments

thanks for everything posted this week everyone,i have been reading all week and am now using my direct line to MY higher power.a god of my understanding,its strange trying to pray formally and instead i decided to just give him(her)a name of his own and chat to him just as i would a pal.something is happening and i am not going to question what,i am ddoing my best and i,m positive he is too.have a great rest of the week and i,ll catch the new topic after work tomorrow.love ya all.soberiety rocks dudes!!!


Member: a.s.
Location: uk
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 4:35:44 PM

Comments

thanks for everything posted this week everyone,i have been reading all week and am now using my direct line to MY higher power.a god of my understanding,its strange trying to pray formally and instead i decided to just give him(her)a name of his own and chat to him just as i would a pal.something is happening and i am not going to question what,i am ddoing my best and i,m positive he is too.have a great rest of the week and i,ll catch the new topic after work tomorrow.love ya all.soberiety rocks dudes!!!


Member: Jamie P.
Location: Washington
Date: 10/4/2003
Time: 5:13:54 PM

Comments

Not sure what the topic is but Im a alcoholic and I have been sober for about ten and a half months and doing worderful. I have a complished alot since I have quit drinking. Ihave gone back to school and got my family back in shape. Things for me when I was drinking was bad. I use to take my agression out on my child and my girlfriend. They did not like for a very long time. But now that I have quit drinking things have turned out for the best. Thats all I have thanks.


Member: Darwin
Location: Minnesota
Date: 10/5/2003
Time: 1:08:31 AM

Comments

Rust, thank you for pointing out my mistake. I went and reread the top of the page and realized I had mistook "week" for "day." I apologize. As for the rest of your comments, I'm afraid I really don't get your point. Perhaps it is because my dictionary doesn't contain words like "emphatizing."