Member: Carly
Location: Cincy
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 7:52:02 AM
How 'bout sex in sobriety? How have my sexual activities/patterns changed, if at all? It is a difficult subject and sometimes hard for newcomers as they often have problems in this area and don't talk about them, so let's try it, whatya's say?
Member: Kerry B 3/21/80
Location: Idaho
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 10:38:04 AM
Great topic Carly - I was young, single and not bad looking when I got sober. It was very important to take a good honest look at my sexual patterns. What I found out for myself is that I had used sex in the past as a means to acquire acceptance and validation from men. What I found out for myself was that it was impossible for me (and I am just talking about me) to go to bed with someone and not get emotionally involved. I had always thought it was no big deal, a physical release was all it was. Not true, I was in denial. Everyone needs to make their own decisions about this topic. I have always cautioned newcomers about having sex, only because allot of us have not ever had a healthy relationship. And emotionally, well, we aren't exactly "well" when we seek recovery, are we.
Member: Kerry B 3/21/80
Location: Idaho
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 10:48:39 AM
Hit the share button before I wanted to... I abstained from sex for a while in sobriety, learned what it was that I was seeking for myself thru the sexual act (besides the physical release), put forth the effort to do all of those things for myself the best I could. I learned how to make myself happy. With all of those expectations out of the way, I was able to find out just what I was looking for in a partner, and stick to it. I met my husband in a meeting, ironically the topic was sex, although I don't think that has much to do with our compatibility. We have remained sober, married and have a few kids. Next month he and I will celebrate 20 years of marriage.
Member: Julie H.
Location: Meadow Valley
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 11:35:33 AM
Wow this is a cool site, I've not visited it before. We live in a tiny little town in the mountains and we don't get much in the way of meetings. We got sober in a big city and it's a little frustrating. Anyway.... sex, that was a big one. I also met my husband in the rooms, we've been together for going on 15 years and have two kids who have never seen their parents loaded, thanks to AA. It took a lot of step work and figuring things out with other women, but I have come along way. There were many years of difficulties for both my husband and I. We both had so much baggage from unhealthy relationships. But there is hope. The steps work on anything I found. Thanks for this site!
Member: Melissa K
Location: So. California
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 12:04:16 PM
Thanks for this topic. I too have never been here before but am thankful for this medium. I am just discovering that I have serious problems in this area. I did not know I was searching for acceptance and validation in another person through sex until lately. Some outside help has helped me see where I need to change the way I look at things. It can be difficult to look at this issue. I am going on five years of sobriety and am just now discovering what is going on in my heart and my head. in God's time more will be revealed. Thanks to all the other people who shared their thoughts, I heard them.
Member: Terry
Location: Louisiana
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 1:19:25 PM
Interesting topic, Carly. I remember seeing a commercial in England which showed drinks being poured into a tall thin glass. The more drinks that were poured into the glass, the 'limper' the glass became, until it eventually just bent over on top of itself. The announcer was saying, 'drink increases the desire, but eliminates the capacity to perform.' He was so right. The same thing applies to most drug addictions. According to recent studies, smoking (or using any tobacco product) causes permanant impotence because it destroys the tiny blood vessels in the penis. Not only that, but smoking actually pemanantly shrinks the penis. When I look at my male smoking friends in A.A., I can't help but think "no sex in sobriety for them." I guess the lesson to be learned is - Get all the way clean and sober before you think about sex in A.A., lest your equipment not work and then shrink away! Have fun watching football today everyone!
Member: Charlie
Location: here and now
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 1:20:06 PM
sex...although not a common topic it is a needed one. When I first got sober I hardly knew what true intimacy was. I was still married to my wife of 20 years and had a few children at home. Yet, because I was drinking throughout all those years, sex was just a matter of getting what I wanted, when I wanted. It was only after becoming sober, that my wife and I truly had a meaningful sexual relationship. This was only possible after I started to learn who I really was and what my relationship was really about. Sex is now a meaningful and fulfilling part of both our lives. Thank you for letting me share.
Member: Terry
Location: Louisiana
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 1:21:43 PM
Interesting topic, Carly. I remember seeing a commercial in England which showed drinks being poured into a tall thin glass. The more drinks that were poured into the glass, the 'limper' the glass became, until it eventually just bent over on top of itself. The announcer was saying, 'drink increases the desire, but eliminates the capacity to perform.' He was so right. The same thing applies to most drug addictions. According to recent studies, smoking (or using any tobacco product) causes permanant impotence because it destroys the tiny blood vessels in the penis. Not only that, but smoking actually pemanantly shrinks the penis. When I look at my male smoking friends in A.A., I can't help but think "no sex in sobriety for them." I guess the lesson to be learned is - Get all the way clean and sober before you think about sex in A.A., lest your equipment not work and then shrink away! Have fun watching football today everyone!
Member: Babe
Location:
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 3:20:02 PM
I have done what the big book suggested. I have prayed. done the steps on sex relations, and after many years of being a bit twisted on the subject, i finally have developed "the ideal for me to work towards... just like the big book says... simple now, but it was so incredibly confusing in the begining of sobriety. like many newbies, i used men for sex, and didn't see i was doing it, spoke love with my lips and hid my true motive, from myself and my victim. Sad, but true. Now i know i can have sex without emotional attatchment if i want to, because i am solid in my life and foundation yada yada, but i don't want to, but if i did i had better be honest with the person about it and be sure im not needy for another to fill my needyness..and get all confused about sex being the first step to filling up on another human being, how gross is that? thankyou god those days are over.. cause that's a really hard place to be... but i prefer to wait until i meet mr. right... as apposed to mr. right now. im not controlled by my sex desire, and it is so wonderful... to illistrate... i don't need to jump into bed with a guy, before i get to know and discover who he is,, whether we are compatible, and all the rest of the fun stuff during dating and so on.. im in no hurry, as i don't have to have sex as though it were an addiction... its taken a long time to get to this place though.. struggle and hard work. I was really paraniod that when i sobered up i was going to be promiscuous.. like when i drank. Happily i discovered the opposite of myself. In the last 7 years i have only had one full on relationship... that didn't work out, but i havnt had sexual relations with any other during or after it ended. i just don't roll that way any more.. although i like to joke around about it sometimes. When i drank i never gave any consideration to who and what i was jumping in to bed with.. its a wonder i didn't end up dead from aids, or some other sex disease. I never considered if buddy was on the rebound from a phyco jealous ex who may try to assasinate me for screwin hers. Never considered aids tests first, nothing, didn't even ask about his religious leanings, background, was he in debt, how did he feel about marriage, children, is he close with his family.. how does he treat his family?..And would i be good for him? etc etc.. (so i didnt ask, because i didn't care, but all the while i would talk and 'act like i was miss polly anna.. because thats what i wanted to be' yet in reality; that's not at all what my actions were illistrating. How dillusional is that? i didn't date ... and all the while i thought i was looking for the real deal when i would jump right into bed, pretty sick stuff. Pretty backwards... jump into bed; 'think that makes him yours, and work out the details later.. doesn't work to well i can tell you that.. someone once said to me that they had never seen too many 'sex based' relationships work out to be more, and i can clearly see why now..And what is a sex based relationship?. I believe it is when man and woman have sex before getting to know each other and being crystal clear on what they are looking for... which takes time....i certainly don't have all the answers for just how to do it.. but i do know that if your unevenly yoked" probably forget it.. if your interests can not be compromised.. forget it.. if your ideas of family and marriage are opposite, forget it..If your not friends first; forget it,,,.stuff like that... where you want to live?..your career goals. country, city, so forth and so on.. there are many good books out there for anyone looking to become marriage ready. I personally have seen so many early sober members suffer terribly, because they have no idea how to go about it, and deep inside they want an honest loving relationship with the opposite sex.. but they keep going about it the old way... and it hurts them alot... i tell them now, that it is okay to want that, but they should do the work, and become ready for it as best and properly as they can... to avoid hurting others and themselves... i had to do it, it took time and it was hard.. im only just now, after 7 years of recovery, sorting out the last few bits of things that will defeat me in my chances for deserving and being ready for the love relationship. For me i couldn't have done it any faster, i had too much stuff to work out, and when a spiritual adviser told me i was looking at maybe 10 years before i might be ready, i almost fell off my chair, but he was right, and its okay today, of course your impatient in the early going, and jealous when you see others who seemingly have all that you want and "think you deserve"... but in reality havn't earned... sorry for the long post, hope it helped some people, it helped me to share it.
Member: Jeff P.
Location: medford, ore.
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 5:30:50 PM
What sex? i had been sober 4 two years and still haven't been laid by my wife. She said that too many years of drinking hurt our relationship, and it will take a long time for the intamicy to come back. But our life as two sober people couldn't be better!I know it will come to me in time,heck even with no sex it's still a better life than sex with alcohol. thanks ........j.p.
Member: Paul W
Location: Texas
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 6:07:01 PM
Sex is just another thing to get in trouble with when drinking or drunk...all about losing inhibitions and trying what seems to be a good idea at the time; weather its sex, drugs, or more booze. Clear heads make better decisions.
Member: day day day
Location: chain chain chain
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 6:22:56 PM
Step three bids us devote ourselves to God; It is therefore up to the individual how much so ever he or she would walk therein. It's not unlawful to marry, and just how to go about it is something I've been working on: not for my self but marriage in the ways of the world verses the way of God: How wise is it on the one hand to take a common law wife or to get a blood test and all that goes with it when according to the bible, when one is joined with another it is the marriage vow itself? How holy is it to choose a wife apart from the world? So long as you keep her its okay. But what I began to speak of is comittment without distraction which is to walk even as he walked and Jesus is Lord..
Member: Angel G.
Location: Southeast Texas
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 6:28:43 PM
Sex is one of the issues that caused me to drink in the first place. I saw in my fourth step that I had a fear of intimacy and a fear of being alone, so I would latch onto anyone and then use them rather than let them get really emotionally close. Then I would feel sorry for myself because I felt that they were using me. I yearned for emotional intimacy but I was afraid of being abandoned. I acted out sexually even more than I did so with alcohol. When I stopped drinking my sex and love addiction/confusion got worse. The steps have freed me. I have learned to apply the 12 steps to every part of my life. I am now in a relationship, while still immature in some ways, it is a vast improvement over anything I have ever experienced. The change happened in me. I began to love myself, and to have a sense of self esteem, mainly because I was being of service to others and doing good things in my life. Now I do not seek my identity in others. I love sex, yet sometimes, it's just sex. Sometimes though, it is something I have always wanted, a way of sharing love with the person I care for so much. I believe that life has a new balance, because God is in charge. He is my strength. Sex is just a great part of life now. It isn't my life, it isn't an escape, it isn't a way of feeling special. Sex is something I share with one person whom I love. And my higher power is love, so in alot of ways, sex is an answer to prayer. I pray every day for my partner, for his sobriety, and for God to love and nurture him in all the ways I cannot. And I thank God for the gifts of friendship and fellowship that we share. Sobriety feels good. Sobriety is fun. Sexual sobriety is natural, unforced, comfortable and mellow. There is no more drama. This is what my steps and prayer have helped me to find. Angel
Member: Bobbie J.
Location: SouthCarolina
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 6:39:55 PM
Good topic, I can remember early on in the program I was in one relationship after another and had to do a inventory on all my so called relationships. I was such a sick puppy then. I can remember my sponcer always saying ( you won't die from lack of sex.) Thank-goodness 19yrs later hopefully I am better in this area and alot more mature.
Member: PAT
Location: FL
Date: 9/7/2003
Time: 11:50:38 PM
I just want to share that my life has changed regarding sex without alcohol. Not that it changed my morals, I never did a "one night stand" due to alcohol, but I am more reserved now. It's harder to meet people. I appreciate being able to voice my opinion on line. Thank you.
Member: Leia
Location: North Georgia
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 1:25:58 AM
This topic is God doing for me what I could not do for myself. This is my first online meeting. I really needed to hear everything that everyone has shared. I realize that I have a lot to resolve with my sex issues. The more I learn about me the more I see that I have to learn. Thanks for the topic and this site.
Member: L-RAY
Location: BEDROOM
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 9:30:36 AM
Good topic Carl - well when i got sober i made up for lost time i was married for 15 years and never strayed! so now that i was free and getting divorced i took it on myself to bed every girl i took out! i was doing bodybuilding and lived with my parents now no money problems and i went away weekends to little hotels in the highlands and i was horney! but after a few years i settled down and relised sex wasnt what made me feel good it was being sober and i had soed my wild oats< so after 8 years sober i married again and im still horney but only for my wife of 9 years its hard being a babe magnet1 LOL Regards L-RAY
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 9:48:04 AM
Hi ((All)), Kelly an alcoholic. Sex and sobriety, sounds like a TV show! The Big Book mentions it, pg 68&69 and the 12&12 pg 50&51. What can I say about it... When I drank I was selfish about it and now that I'm sober I check my motives and check them some more. It is easy in new sobriety to try and replace booze with a body. It's not the same though. Nothing could take the place of booze for this girl. That said, all I can do is not use men to replace the booze. Besides I'm in AA for the long haul and do I really want to sit across from someone I used for the next 20 years??? HECK NO! It says in the Big Book our sex powers are God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly nor to be despised and loathed. I pray for guidance to find the right person, for (sanity) and the (strength) to do the right thing in each questionable situation. This is what separates me from a dog or animal. I can have the (urge)to merge but I have a mind that can question MY MOTIVES and then walk away when not walking away would mean heartache or be self- destructive. I have choices {TODAY}... Kelly ;)
Member: Joe Jq
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 11:18:24 AM
I haven't had sexual intercourse in 10 months. The women I used to fuck in my drunken days were women I would never associate with sober. The women I am meeting these days are a little higher calliber than the booze hags I used to "hook up" with at the clubs and pubs. In my earlier drinking days, I would fall in love with any women I stuck it into . As time went on, it was little more satisfying than masturbation. I started getting into bondage and other kinks to make it more interesting. I've only dated one girl since sobriety, and this lasted several months, although we never went all the way. That's OK though. I think had we went all the way, I would have become to emotionally attached. I'll wait, let go, and let my higher power direct me in this love journey thing.
Member: Joe J
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 11:19:56 AM
I haven't had sexual intercourse in 10 months. The women I used to f#ck in my drunken days were women I would never associate with sober. The women I am meeting these days are a little higher calliber than the booze hags I used to "hook up" with at the clubs and pubs. In my earlier drinking days, I would fall in love with any women I stuck it into . As time went on, it was little more satisfying than masturbation. I started getting into bondage and other kinks to make it more interesting. I've only dated one girl since sobriety, and this lasted several months, although we never went all the way. That's OK though. I think had we went all the way, I would have become to emotionally attached. I'll wait, let go, and let my higher power direct me in this love journey thing.
Member: Shauna
Location: NY
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 12:11:29 PM
Well, for me I always had to have a fews drinks to loosen up and not feel inhibited. I was never into casual sex but I always felt I "needed" alcohol to feel relaxed even with my husband. I had never had sex without having drinks. I'm new to sobriety and now have to work on not feeling self-concious. It seems we have to learn how to deal with all these things that we never really dealt with or grew with because we were always under the influence. I'm turning 40 and I have to deal with things sober almost as a 20 year would because I never did it sober.
Member: Amada R.
Location: Arizona
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 1:15:56 PM
This is a private topic and one that won't help me get or stay sober.
Member: kenh
Location: NYC
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 2:23:12 PM
I haven't had sex since getting sober. I don't really feel the desire. I'm pretty focused on my sobriety and don't want any issues to cloud my head. I'm only sober 4 months now. Hard for me to talk to non AA members. I don't feel that anyone else will understand or have the ability to get to know me before taking "that" step
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 3:28:15 PM
I am 4 years sober and within the past year have ended a not-so-good relationship with the father of my second child. For the first time in my life, I am not eager to go out and "latch" on to someone to make myself feel better. Sex, in sobriety, has value because *I* value myself more. I also don't confuse lust with love, which I did in my 3 previous long term relationships. Early in sobriety, sex = a relationship which was just a way of filling that void in my soul and taking the focus off of working on my recovery. Today, I am dating but not having sex. I will not settle for sex for sex sake, because that always lead to attachment for me, whether the person was right for me or not. Being in recovery has allowed me to "raise the bar" so to speak on what constitutes a partner for me and physical attraction isn't the main deal anymore. It's what's inside the person and what they are made of - and that includes myself.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 6:06:46 PM
HI. Bill here, alcoholic from Arizona. Amen Amanda. (BTW I live in Sierra Vista.) You are right on the button. God created sex so we would reproduce and He made it good so we would want to do it. The program is very clear on this issue. Tells me that most of us needed an overhauling in this department. Tells us that WE (that is us folks) do not want to be the arbiter of anyones sex life. Tells us later on that GOD (and that ain't us folks) alone can judge our sex situation. I strongly suggest the firing of any sponsor that sets down any rules in this area. How have my sex patterns changed? I was a blackout drinker and have woke up to "Who are you and where are we? too many times. I do the sex thing today, but I am more discriminating. I don't give my tadpoles to just anyone. A little on the light side...A woman came up to her sponsor with sex problems....the sponsor told her to read page 69 in the Big Book and said all the answers are there. Well the lady got mixed up and when home and read page 96 instead. :) Thank you all for being here. Love ya. Bill
Member: steve l
Location: new orleans
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 9:04:24 PM
too soon in my recovery for me ti comment.,one month sober.
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 10:07:25 PM
The only comments I have are that problematic sexual matters should be discussed with a spiritual advisor and/or a sponsor and for women newcomers -- avoid thirteenth steppers like the plague.
Member: Tania T
Location: Chicagoland
Date: 9/8/2003
Time: 11:57:59 PM
hi, i am tania and i am an alcoholic. this is a great website. I am over 2 1/2 years sober, and I am very grateful. I was a mess. my relationship and sexual involvement have changed immensely. I used to want a relationship to stuff up that "hole in the soul" that we all have. I learned recently that I can't do that to myself anymore, it was the same pattern! So I have been sober from sex and no where relationships since may of this last summer. This is the difference. I get urges and i dont ACT on them, and i pray about it and they really do go away. Some of our addictions are not just alcohol, it is addiction to distraction. I just know that now, if you see crazy comin, cross the street.
Member: Pam B - Sobergirl91 at hotmail dot com
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 12:00:06 AM
Hi, I’m Pam, an alcoholic. I have a past history of the most disastrous relationships imaginable & could never figure out why everyone else could have real love in a happy relationship but not poor me! – but I never thought that having sex & moving in together on the 1st date had any connection either! – the questions that (((Babe))) puts forth about checking 1st to see if the guy is suitable or compatible had never crossed my mind – if the sex was good we’d elope on the 1st date & then battle over all else that wasn’t right till I moved on to the next one to do the same thing again. over & over – the same disastrous insanity! >>>>> My Step 4 began being an awakening to the solution for this most unmanageable area of my life. When I learned to identify the Fears that activated my Character Defects - & then went on to see how I also used Sex in seeking to alleviate my own Fears/Insecurities about myself as well – what an eye-opener! Just like the drink in respects to changing feelings I don't want to have about myself! - I chose to not get into any relationships for the next couple of years after that while learning how to rely on God – rather than use people to alleviate my own fears/insecurities – learn how to grow up & be the one responsible for how I am today w/God’s guidance, strength & help – a person that is right for a relationship rather than thinking ‘its them’ & I just hadn’t found the right guy yet. It wasn’t till during that time, after I’d ceased the improper use of sex, that what kind of guy would be suitable & spiritually compatible w/me & me w/him began coming to mind. I was content to wait till God put us together - & for nearly 7 yrs now am so glad I did. >>>>> you may not be ready to take a look at your sex life & as long as its not setting you up to drink, no one says you “have to” – but I’d like to pass on what was passed on to me about this: Willingness to go any lengths . . . the more that we are willing to put into these steps & working on our own personal growth & recovery – the greater we benefit from that. – I have seen this to be so very true. >>>>> also, those who are new & have not been thru the 12 Steps yet - please be aware of those who take advantage knowing these things but using it for their own selfish gain. You may think its love & good feelings about yourself to be attractive & appealing to someone of the opposite sex but soon find yourself needing a drink upon finding out that wasn't the case at all. This program is filled w/them (ie 13-Steppers). I was told to start learning how to just have male/female Friendships while keeping my focus on working my steps/recovery - (& that "friends" do not have sex :) - & that worked great for me. Thanks for being here & letting me share. Pam
Member: Dan
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 6:21:34 AM
There is a great site for a SEX INVENTORY...www.gratefuldeadaa@yahoogroups.com It is basically A 4th And %th Step guide that is the raw dawg... It has helped me check it out..It is also a very good site. no trolls..
Member: Dan
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 6:21:56 AM
There is a great site for a SEX INVENTORY...www.gratefuldeadaa@yahoogroups.com It is basically A 4th And 5th Step guide that is the raw dawg... It has helped me check it out..It is also a very good site. no trolls..
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 10:24:08 AM
Ron L Im an alcoholic. Here are some lessons I learnt after I came to A.A. Right off the top when I had less than 3 months soberiety, a member with 5 years sobriety took an interest in me. I hadn't had a job in 18 months, had 5 criminal charges to face at that time, and had a record that the cops said read like a Micky Spalane story. Was I ever in seventh heaven, I soon learnt that she was looking for love,honesty,respect, trust and companionship. all I had was an urge and once she took care of that I knew it was my turn to divy up and I had nothing to give. I left town with a lesson well learnt. I tried going out with normal (sic)ladies and before we got even to first base they would say " we got to talk first " well if I wanted to talk I knew of a whole fellowship where I could go. The big book says we shaped a sound ideal for our future sex life. that set me on a road that has lead me to my wife and true love. Not wanting to say much about what its like now. I can asure you that all the heart break and heart ache that I put myself through to stand here at 67 years old was well worth the journey and I wouldn't trade what I got now .... love, understanding, satisfaction, and a women that makes me feel so adequate when I know that I have so many short falls. I want to end this post with this statement: our sex life is an extension of the love that we have for each other. I would never in my wildest dreams thought this possible, We are both alcoholic,together we have over 50 years of sobriety. Thanks for letting me share on this topic.
Member: Connie S.
Location: Nashville, TN
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 10:55:15 AM
Hi ya'll, my name is Connie and I'm an extremely grateful recovering alcoholic this morning. Last night I got a harsh reminder of how deadly this disease truly is. My ex's current wife who was actively using and drinking hung herself. This news chilled me for many reasons as you may well expect. She did this in a house that I lived in for 6 years. If not for the grace of a loving and forgiving God, this could have very well been me. I was at the jumping off point when I got here and was desperate. I thank God that my life is in His hands today and I don't have contemplate suicide. I can now personally see how we can can wander to the gates of insanity or death. How she must have hurt. God rest her soul and be with those who loved her.
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bwater
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 10:59:31 AM
((((Ron L.)))) Thank you.
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 12:23:42 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. I have compassion for Amanda above who said this sex subject won't help get or keep her sober, though I truly disagree with that statement. Most of us are filled with remorse, guilt, shame, anger, fear, warped ideas, etc when thinking about past sex relations (vouluntary or forced), or even current behavior, if a lot of work towards sobriety in that area hasn't been done. I know I was! I have faith in the saying "You're only as sick as your secrets". It was hugely important for me to learn I wasn't alone in these feelings and pain, and that there was hope for this area, too, if I'd concentrate on putting sobriety FIRST (To Thine Own Self Be True), and learn to form honest relationships with myself, higher power, sponsor, group, etc. I first heard about these things in meetings (in a general way), and then worked on them with my Higher Power, a trusted friend/sponsor and the steps. Straightening out myself, and cleaning up the wreckage of the past, and helping others give me purpose in my life, and I'm in a much better place to see what I can BRING into a relationship (romantic or any other), rather than what I can TAKE from it. Sex is about so much more than just the 'act' of it, and it's a wonderful part of life just like all my other instincts, as long as I use them as my Higher Power intends for me, instead of self will run rampant. Thanks all for being here. See you next week.
Member: angie m .
Location: california
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 1:05:59 PM
angie alcoholic ... when i did my 4th and 5th step my sponsor had me put down everyone i ever had sex with ... oh my god i thought this totally not relevant ... i mean come on who cares ... made no sense to me ..."thank Goodness" she did ... the pattern it showed ... woke me up ... kinda stopped me in my tracks .... i used it as my power ... i could use it as revenge .... i could use at my comfort.... i abused it to tell the truth .... meaningless sex is something i am avoiding these days .... it was part of my disease ... and i can't for myself successfully recover with that a being a part of my life at this time .... i have many girlfriends who dont have a problem with it ...but for me right now its just not good for my head .. this is probably first time in my life where i havent been locked up and i have choosen on my own will to not have sex... or date ... or any of that ...i havent even been given the direction by a sponsor ... i just know for myself i'm not ready ..........
Member: Brandon S
Location:
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 4:09:05 PM
I think that sex during sobriety is ok as long as you don't make it emotional...it might not be quite as easy for women, but for me as a guy I can make it the as far from emotional as a circle and a sqare....
Member: BOB R.
Location: CUTLER ,ON,CANADA
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 4:28:29 PM
Hi: I'm Bob, an alcoholic.Been sober for 12 years. That is around the program and not in it when I finally go honest and started working that Third step, things started to change in my life. Sex was something I always took for granted and a way for approval in one way or another. Sex relates to love and not lust, or thats the way I see it now . When new in sobriety our emotions and outlook on different topics are distorted., this is a good time to discuss topic like this one with our sponsor or temporary sponsor
Member: SALLY V.
Location: RICHMOND,TEXAS
Date: 9/9/2003
Time: 8:46:23 PM
Hi!!!My name is Sally & I am an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 6-28-03. Because I wasn't willing to get rid of my worst defects & change, my sobriety date did. The only thing I can say right now is that I'm trying to work on establishing a relationship with God & staying sober, not a relationship with a man. I agree with Terry from Louisiana: Get clean & sober first. There's plenty of time to look for the right man!!! Thanks for letting me share!
Member: mel m
Location: pierce co washington
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 12:45:11 AM
my name is mel and im an alcoholic, hello to everyone. and i too believe this is a good topic , i think its a really important aspect of getting and staying sober. if I am not willing to look at ALL of my defects and defective patterns-then i don't have a good chance for long term sobriety and or quality sobriety. it is very scary but it is worth the examination, the info you get about yourself, your motives(the things that drove ME)and how you can live better w/o old behaviour is priceless. if i am not very careful w sex/defects/motives i willhurt others and myself and sometimes damage cannot be fixed with amends- Ihave learned this in face to face meetings the hard way. please never be afraid to work a 4 th step on this topic it could save you from endless amounts of misery and really is " relapse prevention" thanks for letting me share and thankyou for all the great sobriety i see here I'll sure come back!! mel in washington.
Member: mel m
Location: washington
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 2:23:57 AM
p.s. thankyou susan in conn for what you wrote.lol mel/washington
Member: jimmie
Location: jamaica
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 8:56:44 AM
Why the Attack on Straight Men? The war against American men has just gotten a lot more interesting. Consider the hyped-up success of Bravo’s new TV show, “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy”. One must wonder about the real objective behind a show that has as its premise to denigrate straight men for being what they are: men. Radical women who celebrate “Queer Eye” enjoy telling the world all the things they wish they could change about males, such as their lack of appreciation for the cultural arts, their tendency to shy away from overt sentimentalism, their regular fashion faux pas, and their general untidiness. Wives complain about their husbands, girlfriends about their boyfriends, and bitter single women about all men in general. Instead of treating every complaint as a serious discovery needing immediate remedy, why can’t we just acknowledge that most feminists just like to complain? Not only is this constant carping about men deemed acceptable, but we now have an entire television series devoted to “improving” men to coordinate with female desires. The only venue deemed remotely appropriate for men to do the same to women is in a comedy act – because it’s not taken seriously. While one might argue that “Queer Eye” is an entertainment program, could we even imagine a situation where the tables are turned? Imagine, ladies, a show giving straight men the green-light to train women not to do all the things that bug them. Would it be nearly as humorous? On the show, perhaps titled “Making Women Tolerable”, the male hosts would get to: Drag them to a boxing match or a car race. Women should learn to appreciate these exciting sporting events. Take women camping and prove that it won’t kill them to not wash their hair for a couple days. Train women to keep their mouths shut when the toilet seat is left up. If they want the seat down, they have arms, too. Lay off the shopping for a week and make women acknowledge that there is a connection between the Visa card in their hand and the income their devoted mates bring home each week. How successful would this show be? We’ll never know, because no producer would dare have their name attached to the project. Why is it that our society can launch an attack against male idiosyncrasies, but not the reverse? Perhaps a better question to ask is: Why do we want to? Why the assault on heterosexual men? Why can’t they be allowed to be “rough around the edges”? Men who like to shop, enjoy the ballet, and know when to use merlot versus cabernet, are not typically the guys women date. No, these poor chaps are generally doomed to be the “close friends” in women’s lives. These men often lament of being stuck in the “friend” trap. Women may complain about macho male tendencies, but they don’t croon over the “softies”. Likewise, men groan about “girly” attributes, but the girls who can hold their own during tackle football are usually just “one of the guys”. These women are also often passed over romantically. Why is this the case? The answer is a complex one, probably being studied somewhere by a psychology group. However, a short explanation is this: heterosexual men and women are drawn to the differences that make them compliment one another. Compliment is the key. There are inherent differences between the two sexes, regardless of radical feminists hell-bent on denying the truth. Men and women who choose to accept and appreciate their differences are able to have successful relationships based on trust and mutual respect. Feminists who want to impose their will upon male behavior patterns show nothing but disrespect and screw things up for the rest of us. Any self-respecting male should be offended at this kind of abuse, especially when it comes via guys whom women consider an extension of their close girlfriends. Likewise, ladies who are secure in their gender should be equally offended at the presumption that they are supposed to prefer dating Woody Allen over John Wayne. Let’s celebrate our genders’ differences, rather than try to erase them. Better yet, we should stop the assault on heterosexual males in its tracks.
Member: Jerry
Location: Jersey City
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 9:22:17 AM
Wow, Pam finally says something that actually makes sense and not completely stupid. Keep it up girl, maybe you do have some good qualities somewhere that I haven't seen until now.
Member: Sharon Frey
Location: Portland, Oregon
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 10:29:09 AM
Hi Sharon here. Sex? Boy that was adoosy for me.When I got here I was such a sick puppy that I believed the statement included husbands. One more hell I put him thru, no wonder he divorced me LOL!As a preacher's daughter, I knew that Sex was a God given, not Sharon doing and using men. I just applied it to one husband out of 4. I re-married and learned before he died what sex really was, and it sure wan't my defination. I've been sober many years and find that letting my GOD run the show works best. Have a great day and don't drink for the next 4 minutes Love and prayers
Member: Gerald Bright
Location: Los Angeles Ca.
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 10:45:19 AM
Page 96 instead of 69. Wow what a contrast.Hope this didn't really. AzBill what a contrast. Very amusing.Gerald
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 12:12:02 PM
LOL Hi Gerald.. Glad you picked up on that page 96 vs page 69.. I learned that one at a Joe and Charlie big book seminar weekend I once attended. Jimmie from Jamaica.. A big strong but you are on track it is the differences that I find attractive. I have been told that I am a pretty nice guy, but a bit rough around the edges at times. It was called charm but I am not so sure of that. :) Faux Pas is my middle name.. I say it a bit simpler. "Women are from earth, men are from earth", deal with it.. If the toilet seat is up, put it down. LOL.. BTW I been drunk at Doctor's Cove too Bill
Member: Gotta be said
Location: OUT LOUD
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 4:04:52 PM
We didn't mean to turn our son into The Outcast. Last year, he was the only ninth-grader in his school whose parents opted him out of the county sex-education classes. We opted out our two other children also (one in middle school, the other in grammar school) and we've done so again this year for all three. Yes, we probably subjected our eldest to some ridicule. After all, the high school required my son to check in each day – in front of his peers – before he went to the library for his "other assignments." My husband and I take the blame for the ridicule because we're the ones who made him opt out. We didn't know until too late that our son had to check in each day – you can sure bet we're fighting that requirement this year. But win that battle or not, we have very good reasons for opting out all our children again this year – reasons you may want to ponder if you have students of your own. First, we shouldn't have to opt out of sexual education. We should have to opt in. Second, the state should focus on teaching our children history, literature, science, mathematics, etc. Providing kids with information on sex – beyond a few rudimentary facts that could be taught in biology class – is our job as parents. Third, sex ed, as most school districts implement it today, doesn't work. Programs that focus on "how-to" information do nothing to reduce teen sexual activity, cut sexually transmitted diseases or provide the moral underpinnings our kids need. You hear otherwise – that we need to "get real" with young people who are bombarded with sexual images, that our only hope is to teach them how to curb disease and pregnancy through condom use, that they need to embrace, rather than control, these new feelings that come with puberty. Malarkey. What schools should be telling our children in health or biology classes is that sex outside of marriage is harmful, and just plain wrong. They should also be equipped with ways on how to say "no." This approach works. The growth of true abstinence-only curricula, spurred by demands from parents, is credited with reducing the overall rate of sex among teens from 56 percent to 46 percent in the last 10 years. My colleague Robert Rector notes the best abstinence-only programs reduce teen sexual activity by up to 60 percent. Why? Girls tell researchers the main thing they want to know from sex-education is how to say "no" without hurting boys' feelings. Not how condoms work. Not how to practice "outercourse." Not a primer in the use of body oils. They want a way out, and they want adults to affirm that getting out is right. What they get are programs so disingenuous their very names are lies. They're called abstinence-plus, or abstinence-based, but they're not about abstinence. They're about the mechanics of sexuality. They suggest teen couples shop for condoms together and mark down the store's hours lest they be caught unprepared. In a recent op-ed, Rector tells of a program that lists ways teachers can show kids as young as 13 "how to make condoms fun and pleasurable." These programs offer extensive instruction in how to "satisfy each other" short of intercourse – showering together, full-body massages, etc. Does any rational person think these activities make it less likely they'll graduate to intercourse? What doesn't work is what the "educational establishment" has been pushing for 30 years – "frank discussion," "role playing" and "starting young." Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, an academic who focuses on family issues, proved as much in a scathing review of "comprehensive sex-ed" that was published in the Atlantic magazine. She focused on New Jersey, which pushed this approach early and aggressively and has the dismal teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease rates to show for it. "Research does not support the idea that early sex education will lead to more-responsible sexual behavior in adolescence," Whitehead writes. "Nor is there reason to believe that franker communication will reduce the risks of early teen-age sex." In fact, she says, the opposite is probably true. In 1980, 67.6 percent of teen-age births in New Jersey were to unmarried mothers – 11 years of enlightening comprehensive sex ed later, the figure had jumped to 84 percent. And that's the comprehensive-sex-ed folks' showcase. Like three-fourths of the parents in a recent Zogby poll, I want my kids told "no" to teen sex, not instructed on how to do it and escape the consequences. If your school isn't telling your children "no," then I suggest you opt them out. Better your kids be an outcast for a few weeks than the victim of an unexpected pregnancy or STD for life. One day, your children will thank you for it.
Member: KAT
Location: MASS
Date: 9/10/2003
Time: 4:42:17 PM
To: Gotta Be Said - you have every right to voice your opinion and I even agree with it. HOWEVER, I don't think this is the place for it. The sex issue is very real for recovering alcholics and I for one, only newly sober for 90 days tomorrow am having a great deal of difficulty with it. I've been married for 20 years and feel like a virgin all over again. I'm scared to death to fully let go and be totally open to my husband. Thank God he is the most patient and understanding man that I've ever met. Even after I had my two kids, he was always patient with getting our sex life back and told me that I was worth waiting for. This is a fabulous topic Carly and one that I've been discussing at length with my therapist. I love my husband with all my heart and soul, but most of my sexual encounters before we were married were all about desperately trying to be loved and all the while having to be totally shitfaced to screw around with all the Tom, Dicks and Harrys that I thought were all going to immediately fall in love with me because I put out. The best part of all of this though is that I have been totally honest with my husband and that in and of itself is real intimacy. We've only had sex a couple of times since I quit drinking and I can feel myself letting go more each time. I really appreciate this topic and thanks for letting me share.
Member: Rarely
Location: Northern Canada
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 12:54:13 AM
Wrong wrong wrong she has not the right to voice her opinion on outside issues. In his very last talk our co founder said," lets not louse it all up with Freudian complexes and things that are intresting to the scientific mind, but have very little to do with our actual A.A. work." And tradition ten says, " Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy." I love A.A. to much to have them use it as a forum to express a opinion that has nothing to do with A.A. work
Member: Jerry H.
Location: Texas
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 2:06:16 AM
I agree with Amada R. What does sex have to do with staying sober. I come to this online site to get help to keep from drinking for one more day. I don't really see how having sex or not having sex has anything to do with staying sober.
Member: ''
Location:
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 7:13:40 AM
DEPENDS ON HOW GOOD THE SEX IS
Member: Karen
Location: NYC
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 7:14:27 AM
If you don't see how sex has anything to do with sobriety---you have some serious growing to do!! Good Luck! And the article is about sex people--the topic and thus NOT an outside issue in this setting---not to mention this is an open site and clearly states other things may show up as who knows what the person was thinking that posted it, maybe it helped keep them sober and again---NOT an outside issue and if you think it is it's probably only because you disagree with it and actually need to look at it. Just like above, we all have some growing to do in some area and sex IS a BIGGIE for practically all alkies and if you don't want to grow fine, but don't start the crap about it being an outside issue and stop others from growing or many like me will shoot the arguments down and you can either grow or go---your choice---Good Tidings for ALL!!!!!
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 9:11:44 AM
Hi Jerry, Sorry to doubledip here. I feel a need to ramble! Sex has everything to do with staying sober or Bill Wilson would not have devoted part of Step 4 to it. To me it is about everything I have read here so far. Cleaning up the wreckage of our past, making amends to those we hurt and trying not to repeat the behaviors. How could I do a searching and moral inventory and leave out the sex part of the inventory??? We are not saints comes to mind, how could we be if we were drunk all the time? I found sex equally alarming once I got sober because I felt lust for the first time in a couple years after being on a two year drunk. I acted on it and I felt bad afterward but luckily I did not drink over it or repeat it. Learning the 12 Steps has made me see that sex is God given and not to be used or thought of as dirty. It really is a normal bodily function. When we try to hide it or pretend it is not normal is when it comes out perverted. To deny something that is a natural part of life can only lead to a break down of some sort. Look at the Catholic Priests and the evangelist preachers and where it got them? It still came out... but sideways... totally perverted. Denial is a big problem for everyone alcoholics included. On the side issues of how tv shows portray men negativelly and teaching sex ed in school...hmmm. In my humble opinion these have nothing to do with the topic. I don't watch tv except sports so I have not seen the guy bashing show. I miss the old shows that were funny without all the hype. The networks give people what they want to see and what sells so if this show is on there is a need for it. Jerry Springer type shows sell spots and are on forever for a reason, people watch them! The school sex ed topic has me wondering also. I remember taking it back in the 70's and it has gotten much more informational. I would never underestimate my children enough to say that they should not/ could not take the class. I have two children 15 and 19 who are much different then I was at that age. I sat down with them from an early age and talked to them about the reproductive process, birth control and Aids/ Stds. We always had animals of some sort having babies and they were told how it works in animals. My son did not get his first girlfriend until 18 and my daughter is 15 and has not chose to date yet. I was 13 and dated to find out what my parents were not telling me. I regret it because I was too young to understand it at the time. Because of my experience I was open with my kids and they seem very healthy with their own sexuality. Kids are rebellious by nature and to tell them not to do something is just daring them to try it. I never told them not to just the facts. They are deciding what feels right for them and I'm proud of them. They are making better decisions then I did but mine were not based on anything except curiosity and defiance. The other thing kids hate is to feel different. By you excluding your son from the class in front of his peers must be very embarrassing for him. Why not just have a talk with him about sex and reproduction and let him take the class and come to his own conclusions? You might be pleasantly suprised. Carly, thanks for the topic. It really made me think and it feels good to think again with a sober brain! Thank you all for sharing and listening to my ramblings. Kelly :)
Member: VERY
Location: DISAPPOINTED
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 9:54:35 AM
Kelly---you are not only judgemental---but WRONG!!! To decry that a blanket statement about Catholic priests is an injustice to anyone Catholic and certainly to priests who are not only good, but of the most holy people on earth. If you have no understanding of the meaning of true chastity that 99.9% of all priests live and choose to brand them because of 0.01% of perverts(I totally agree they are that) than I suggest you take a look around you in the rooms of AA and then tell me what you see dear woman? I see at least 50% perverts and yet you say that about priests as a blanket statement? SHAME ON YOU!!!!
Member: max c
Location: houston tx
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 10:54:40 AM
hello everyone lol great topic what about sex.whew man did i have some my first yr.switched addictions. helped keep me sober.sex and step one. then i found out that I was hurting people. ladies saying they just wanted sex. but not many can just have sex without some kind of feelings.4 me after a while it didn't work anymore 2 chang how i felt. i had 2 do some step work and lay of the sex lol.I say do what u want but b prepared 4 the aftermath. i couldnt go 2 a meeting without seeing someone i had had sex with very ackward. we are here 2 overcome the drink.who cares about your sexual habbits lol.they will change along the way.as long as u don't drink over them.i was pretty confused on love and sex. I just wanted 2 b loved. i had 2 learn how 2 love 2 b able 2 b boved if that makes sense 2 u.trying 2 find love through sex didn't work 4 me lol.may 4 u. just b carful the person u are looking 4 may be watching u.( i aqqired the nickname mattress max)man was i a hoe lol. oh well been 1 month and 6 yrs clean and sober now. only message i have 4 ya is u never have 2 drink again. and u never have 2 feel like u felt the first time u walked into that first meeting. all i understood the first few months is KEEP COMMING BACK no matter what u do lol. and thats what i think today. thank u all 4 being here for me. adn if no one has told ya they love u today. I LOVE U. LOL KEEP COMMNG BACK
Member: Terry
Location:
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 11:00:54 AM
Hi, I have been sober now 4 days. I was sober for 5 years with my husband, then went back out when my husband informed me he had begun drinking again. We then drank for about 2 more years, and Im trying to get and stay sober again. ABout the sex, topic, I agree with Shauna from NYC. It is very hard for me right now to develop the intimacy I would like to have with my husband. I love him to death, but sex was alot easier it seemed when I was "loaded". Easier to let go, and having sex now sober is a little more difficult, especially since he is still drinking. Im not harping on him, all I can do is be the best example and try to stay sober and be there for him when he is ready. We both love each other very much, but it can be difficult trying to develop and maintain a certain level of intimacy sober. I know we had it at one time, and it is worth trying for again. Thanks for letting me share! Terry
Member: Richard W
Location: MD
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 11:18:11 AM
Healthy, sharing sex is wonderful. Sexual 'sobriety' is a colossal waste of time. Healthy, emotional loving is a very positive lifestyle. Use of alcohol, for me, is always a waste of time ... during and the aftermath.
Member: KAT
Location: MA
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 3:10:05 PM
TO Rarely - you didn't seem to read past the first line when I said that someone has every right to voice their opinion... if you had read on you would've seen that I said "HOWEVER, I don't think this is the place for it." I enjoy this site but I think everyone is a bit touchy and judgemental. Let's all lighten up and help each other instead of criticizing.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 3:29:48 PM
Amen Kat
Member: Rarely
Location: Northern Canada
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 4:42:24 PM
Okay I stand to be corrected. Its not the first time that Ive noticed that I can't see past my nose. In the ole days I would have gotten drunk over some thing like this. " ME " wrong... I was wrong once before and that was the time I thought I had made a mistake LOL
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 6:33:54 PM
Hi, Very Dissapointed, Sorry to sound like I was making a blanket statement that all Priests are perverts. I could have said it much better and was refering to the small percent of Priests being indited on charges. I have the most respect for Priests and have been a practicing Catholic most all my life. My oppologies to anyone I offended. My Priest and I have talked at length on the subject. My last Priest was both gay and an alcoholic. He ran a mens AA meeting every week at the Church until he moved on. Priests are after all just human beings like the rest of us. FYI... I did not realize this till Father pointed this out. After every Mass whatever wine that is not consumed from the bottle must be consumed by the Priest and never poured down the drain. This is why some Priests can get addicted to alcohol by the daily drinking of wine and if they have alcoholic tendencies to begin with. BTW a good article to read is @ http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex8.htm Sorry...Kelly
Member: Jay
Location: New York
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 6:49:06 PM
www.the12steps.com
Member: Dale W
Location: W.Y.
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 7:52:38 PM
Hi I'm Dale an alcoholic. very interesting topic but I believe that the big book says it all, I notice that in the 1st, 164 pgs, it talks about alcohol on four pages and sex on five i wonder why. after doing a thourgh 4th step I can see how sex is a big deal especially after a sex inventory.as it says if we are not sorry,and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing, These are facts out of our experience. Also we treat sex as we would any other problem. If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. Also in the family afterward there is some suggestions about sex (pg133&134) But God alone can judge our sex life, we pray for the right ideal. As for me sex in sobriety was a process not an event and it took a while. because the one question I had to ask myself was what are my motives? usually they were selfish, Today it's not what I'm getting It's about what I am giving to the relationship, and eventually that works in my sex relation. Thanks; Remember who loves ya!
Member: Even More
Location: Disappointed
Date: 9/11/2003
Time: 9:45:07 PM
Kelly)) While that was kind of you to offer to your sincere apology, I'm yes even more disappointed than before. The reason is because priests(it is not meant to be capitalized) are not "gay," or homosexual or whatever term you choose to use. I only pray to God that he is not physically manifesting his abnormal sexuality and being true to his vows of chastity. Even more troubling though is your stance about the "wine." It is NOT wine at all after consecration in Catholicism---it is the Blood of Our Lord and Saviour--period. One can not possibly become addicted or relapse from something that is not what it is NOT. Very simple really, and while certainly anyone is free to doubt that if they wish, one can not possibly be a faithful Catholic and hold the very core of our faith in question, much less imply that it is "good" to know the exact opposite as being the "truth." You have just exemplified the very depths to which we have gone astray in the Church as it is deeply discouraging when I hear the laity exude the diametrically opposite view of the most basic of Church teaching as being "right." Does nobody ever tell them the Truth? Have you never been told that homosexuality is sinful? Have you never been told What the Eucharist is? Ever? On your end, do you even care? God help us all and please pray for not only your "disturbed" priest friend and yourself, but myself as well. I've drank the Blood of Jesus every day for nearly a decade now and I'm as sober as they come so please, do not tell people the falsehood that circulates in many protestant circles amongst AA as it is very hurtful to me if not Our Lord directly, albeit maybe unintentionally. I pray you just didn't know, but pray you ask another priest about the Eucharist and Precious Blood, please.......
Member: Back
Location: To the Topic
Date: 9/12/2003
Time: 3:29:28 PM
Geeewhizzzzzzz....Did that last post by God knows who put the "kabash" on the sex talk or what? Darn, and all was going so well---come on kids, don't let one with Trauth beat you silent---that probably wasn't even his/her intention. Soooo.....Back to the topic at hand------Sexual Sobriety---boy that's a doozy Carly girl and I for one appreciate all the excellent stuff that's been said here--Thanks for bringing it up!
Member: Jami C
Location: Syr
Date: 9/12/2003
Time: 3:35:29 PM
First timer and love the topic. In early stages of trying to get sober. Seeing counselor and it is helping tremendously. Gone 2 couple AA mtgs. About sex, just call me nypho. I realize that drinking and having sex can be enhanced or even not as good. I enjoyed reading everyones thoughts. Looking forward to more discussions.
Member:
Location:
Date: 9/12/2003
Time: 8:50:38 PM
Where else can ya go from a Jesus-freak to a self-proclaimed nympho in 35 seconds? This is great!!!!!!!1
Member: Lynne L
Location: P.A.
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 12:08:27 AM
The best thing I ever did for myself was stay out of a relationship for 2&1/2 yrs in early sobriety When I met my future husband was scared never had sober sex but it was right so became comfortable I always used sex as a means to get someone to care about me I thought if I slept with them they would not leave me it also made me feel like I was ok if someone wanted me Thank God for A.A. and the 12 steps
Member: d. nicole shandley
Location: iola kansas.
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 12:22:46 AM
i feel as well, that sex and relationships are a very diffitcult thing to deal with as it is. than you add on trying to stay sober and its 100 times harder, it was suggested to me to not get into any kind of relationship untill you have at least 1year sober, so i wiill stick to that.d.
Member: Bikerbabe
Location: on bugs.......
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 12:25:20 AM
((I believe it is "IMMORAL" to allow an abusive individual(s)... to continue with thier sickness and suffering))) when it is within the laws, and god given powers of us to do otherwise)) And for those who need to 'educate themselves on what constitutes "abuse" under the law...you can read about it. When a mosquito continues to fly in my face, buzz around my ears, and try to chew off my leg, i think god gave me "itchyness, the ability to feel annoyed and a couple of hands so i can slap the sucker... and you bet your booty that's what the creature would get from me.. be gone bug, or die. life is really so simple
Member: KP
Location: Texas
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 8:24:23 AM
In my opinion:: Sex is great sober. I'll never forget the first times I had sex sober. And I mean when I had a few months of sobriety. Sex is really much better sober. It's a natural euphoric high. Better than any alcohol or drug rush...any of that. But the thing about it is, if I don't stay sober I can't ever tell or remember how better it is when sober. Once I drink or drug the alcohol/drug seems to lie to me. Cuz' drink will do me all nite and day and never quit me. Then all I want is to have intimacy with my alcohol/drug, first and my lady second most all the time. Sux!
Member:
Location:
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 11:19:57 AM
bikerbabe is nuts, nuts, nuts and needs professional help---maybe someone could stick it to her eh? if you think you or anyone else is being abused and keep coming back i have no pity on you its your own fault for being so stupid---keep coming back to that kind of deal and you get what you ask for---if you think any law says people cant say what they want here because of your twisted veiw of what constitutes abuse your even dumber than you sound---yes i think your a dumb bitch---so what!
Member: Joe B.
Location: Charleston,W.V.
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 11:32:03 AM
Back from the beach.Windy and rain.Too newcomers take your time about SEX, it took us a while to gethere.
Member: Lno R
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 11:50:55 AM
In Winnipeg here some of us think our selves as being from the Big Book capital of the world, the reason being that we have so many B.B. mgt and studies, as a result I ofen refer to the B.B. when talking on a topic, some sponsors say "no sex for the first year" In the book it says " We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. Who am I to deny any one the pain that brings humility. ( the basic ingredent of humility is a desire to seek and do Gods will.) My sponsor never made any rules or judged me. He shared.. Some one posted that there is five pages on sex in the B.B. Good gosh the person can't count past 2 1/2 cause thats all there is. so in keeping with the line at the bottom of page 68 " It's so easy to get way off the track." Ill close by saying......... SMOKING KILLS -- SEX IS HEALTHY. and when I told her I was a lover not a fighter she said " you better go back to fighting...Im just like God I love all women
Member: Babe
Location: pray for sanity.
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 12:51:48 PM
Hey everyone, happy long term contented sobriety to all. I believe it is "IMMORAL" AND AGAINST PRINCIPAL TO ALLOW SOMEONE TO CONTINUE ABUSING OTHERS HERE ON THE SITE,, I USE TO BE GUILTY OF IT, BUT HEY,, I CHANGED, AS YOU CAN PLAINLY SEE, BUDDY THERE IS STILL DOING HIS ACT. GET A LOAD OF THAT EH?... ONE MINUTED HE'S LICKING MY BOOTS, AND THE NEXT HE'S CALLING ME VULGARITIES.... WHAT'S the matter sweetheart?..did i hit a sore spot?... keep it coming honey,, let's see how gross you can really get... what else would you like to call me?. Find yourself another sucker and see if you can't lick thier boots, and suck them in.. if they have even half a brain they'll be on to you...get real! you've got to be completely insane to think anyone half decent would want to be your buddy, when your spoutin off the vulgarities at others here on the site... ha ha ha.. your halarious..
Member: Richard W
Location: MD
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 12:51:56 PM
I wonder if SEX, being a generally super interesting topic, isn't really serving here as a metaphor for all activities requiring responsibility ... and this is what is lost when sobriety is lost ... so the goal of sobriety, is responsible living ... the goal of participation here, is sobriety ...
Member: KP
Location: Texas
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 3:55:50 PM
I forgot to mention: I met my hunny in NA and we attended AA and NA together. Eventually we had sex and later on, got married. We celebrated 15 years of marriage last May. We have 2 beautiful children. We have been through a whole lot of similiar troubles and struggles together. And sex is still better sober, than not. But yes, newcomers be careful, yet there are happy endings. Today I am sober. One day at a time! KP
Member: davez
Location: berkleymi
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 5:50:35 PM
Kelly.... While in one of my rehabs they celebrated mass several times a week. The priest there was an alcoholic too. When wine time rolled around, they had the OK to use grape juice, from the diocese. They announced this before every mass, so if anyone was there just for the wine, they wouldn't be wasting their time. (If it wasn't announced, things could get ugly quickly.) I just had a thought. If the priest didn't want to finish the wine, he could have a deacon or an usher as the last person at communion to finish it up. Volunteers wouldn't be too much of a problem. ><
Member: Setting the
Location: Record straight!
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 8:45:55 PM
another one who doesn't have a clue as to what the Wine is. davez you do NOT speak for any diocese and certainly NOT the Church---It is NOT wine, It IS the Blood of Jesus Christ, ask a priest and not some silly person who thinks everybody is looking for any way to get loaded why don't ya? again, contempt prior to investigation rears its ugly head.
Member: Rona M
Location: scotland
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 9:21:24 PM
the sex instinct takes people back out to drink and die. it is entirely relevant to staying sober. those who can have sex without any emotional involvement or responsiblity may not be considering the feelings of their (unfortuneate) partner. also.if anyone can enlighten me on those 'sexless' marriages would be most grateful!
Member: Jenny
Location: from the block
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 10:09:39 PM
I think "Setting the Record Straight" has some real anger issues. Talk about rearing an ugly head. I thought priests were supposed to be a bit more compassionate. We get it, it IS the Blood of Jesus Christ, but would you want your best friend who was struggling to stay sober be the one to drink that blood? Would you want that one sip to be the first drink that lead to others? Jesus also said that if we had the faith of a mustard seed we could tell a mountain to move and it would. I'd like to think I have faith and yes, it's probably smaller than a mustard seed, but I have yet to see anyone move that mountain. Jesus spoke in metaphors and symbols, but I still believe it is wine. And I still feel like I can discuss this without yelling or getting angry. With all that's going on in the church these days, one more angry priest isn't helping matters at all.
Member:
Location:
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 10:13:34 PM
davez--that was obviously because of the newbies in sobriety, not the priest. there is an unfermented form of wine that is used, not grape juice, but whatever. the point is that the Mass was at a treatment center----very, very different and reasons involve the patients, not regular people.
Member: USA -- USA -- USA
Location: U--S--A U--S--A
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 10:21:56 PM
Terrorists and idiots: Financial lessons learned Neil Cavuto (archive) September 13, 2003 There's nothing like being down at Ground Zero, where the once mighty twin towers stood, to appreciate the enormity of what happened there. I remember covering events down there right after the attacks, did so again a year after the attacks, and yet again, from a roof-top perch overlooking a vast empty pit this past week, two years after the attacks. It is a sobering experience. Just looking at the faces this year of children reading off the names of moms and dads killed in those attacks reminds you of the pain that continues from that day. But I'm not here to write about pain or loss. Plenty of my colleagues in the press have already done so, and many far better than I ever could. No, I'm here to write about a different feeling . . . a good feeling, a proud feeling, and a confident feeling. I'm here to talk about the good news on an anniversary seemingly filled only with bad. I'm here to talk about something the terrorists didn't destroy, and couldn't if they wanted to. I'm here to talk about the triumph of the American spirit, as seen in something as crass and as elegant as American capitalism. So, for you 19 misfit terrorists, who relished an after-life hook-up with a host of virgins, a host of reasons why you botched it. You thought by striking the heart of financial America, you'd financially cripple all of America. You didn't. People did stop spending for a few weeks, but they more than made up for it in the many months since. You thought by hitting so near Wall Street, you'd decimate Main Street. You didn't. The averages fell, but most are back or near where they were then, and in the case of the NASDAQ, comfortably over what it was then. You thought that by using our planes, people would stop flying on our planes. You were right, for a while. But thanks to help from Uncle Sam and some crafty competitors and special deals, airline traffic is 20 percent higher than it was then, and the industry's coming off one of its best summers ever. You thought people would stop buying cars, yet more Americans bought more cars in the two years since the attacks than any two-year period in history, not only among people here but people anywhere. You thought Americans would stop eating out. Yet restaurant sales are up 15 percent year-over-year. You thought people would stop taking trips, stop buying big-ticket items, stop doing fun things. Yet summer travel bookings were a record, we just sold more refrigerators and air conditioners this year than any other, and amusement park spending was stronger in the summer of 2003 than it was in the summer of 2001. All this is not to say you didn't inflict harm. You did. But even there, you did it in a way that made us climb, not cower. We are a more focused nation now, and a more determined nation now. We know our strengths, and, yes, we know our weaknesses. But the key is we have the strength to see and debate those weaknesses. We're as proud of those differences as we are our flag. And, oh yeah, unlike you, we don't kill others over those differences. The things you thought would bring us down have only brought us up. You hoped desperately to attack us from within by shocking us throughout, but it is you, not us, who have lost out. You discovered towers can fall, but not the American spirit. It's a pity. All this damage, all this carnage, all this scheming . . . on the hunch we would stumble and you'd get a cheap after-life date with virgins. Now you must be asking . . . what the hell happened to that stumble, and where the hell . . . are the virgins?
Member: Look at what sex can do!
Location:
Date: 9/13/2003
Time: 10:48:05 PM
Talk about your appropriate post for the sexual discussion.. and talk about your epitomy example of the power of pussy in some places here on earth... to think a man could actually want virgins enough to take his own life... lord love us!... why didn't buddy just go and find one when he was alive or find 10 .... if he like it so much... this has got to be the very worst example of the male mantallity and a vulgar display of stupidity on the male counterpart of the species. I don't think i know of a woman anywhere who deliberately died because she was "told" by some idiot she would get 10 young virgin cocks... i guess men and women are just differnt then.
Member: Juli W
Location: mybed
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 12:05:15 AM
Please, you guys, get a grip!
Member: Ricky P.
Location:
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 1:45:04 AM
No one needs clearance from a sponsor or anyone else to have sex.That type of control is absurd.It is strange that we came to AA to stop drinking and it gets turned into stop having sex,how and why did that happen.Yes having sex is way more healthier than smoking and yet people are telling us to not have sex but that it is allright to abuse our bodies with nicotine.If anyone tries to control anyone,you better head for the nearest exit and find a new meeting spot.I dont care what it says on what page of what book,common sense has to prevail.Sex does not cause drinking and drinking does not cause sex to occur,both are premeditated well in advance by choice,sometimes seperately and sometimes jointly.Sex is best when in a relationship but certainly it does occur out of relationships all the time.Did we come to AA to quit drinking or quit having sex or to quit smoking or to quit doing drugs or just to quit living and being anything remotely close to what we were when we decided to quit drinking.I came to quit drinking and I did.I will always have sex and I will always be the person I was before I decided to quit drinking only being the same old me only not drinking.I never felt that I needed a total makeover.
Member: Ricky P.
Location:
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 2:00:46 AM
It is wine if it is fermented and the label says wine.It is grape juice if the label says it is.NO way no how can wine that is purchased from a liquor wholesaler be Jesus's blood no matter who does the whodoo on it.It is all symbolic.Wine was the preferred drink way back when because it was safer to drink than the water,duh.What a crock that all the wine has to be drank,if thats the case maybe someone needs to cut the order in half from the wholesaler or at least everyone in attendance can drink their fair share as to keep the priest sober.For christ sakes the fellow could get stuck with a nearly full bottle several times a week and that is not good.I am not trying to down the catholic faith.I realize that it is the catholic traditions and all and I can respect that.
Member: Penny H
Location:
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 3:07:23 AM
Member: Penny H
Location: Ohio
Date: 9/14/2003
Time: 3:07:53 AM