Member: Glen
Location:
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 6:34:44 AM
Brian, I put your request for help over on the Coffeepot before I refreshed the page, I hope you didn't mind. Congratulations on your sobriety!!
Member: Solvie A.
Location: Suffolk County
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 7:24:19 AM
I want to talk about getting the love back from our families which we have lost due to them loosing trust in us. From a meeting I went to yesterday, it seems this just may not happen. Several of the "old timer" men were saying they never got close with their families again and always remained distant. I am new to AA. I went to a meeting here and there over the years, but never believed I was an alcoholic. My problem was my husband, who was very controlling and always insisted I had a problem, and he had none (whether it was drinking, or exercising, or whatever). Due to the way I was raised (solely by my very nurturing mother; I was the "apple of her eye"), I never learned to stand up for myself or use my aggression when needs were in conflict. I was just a very nurturing, giving person who couldn't use anger at all (oh, of course occassionally the steam would build up and I would explode, but even that was almost laughed at by my family...) So, what I eventually learned to due was to turn that anger inwardly and blame myself for anything which went wrong. This made me very ineffective in "disciplining" both my husband and two sons. What I mean by disciplining is to show them when they were out of line (to give them a glance back from reality). I just absorbed all the negative energy and was the soothing mom or wife. Sooo, eventually this had to give somewhere and the alcohol was MY soother. I kept it very controlled for years and as my husband started seeing the pattern and trying to control me, I went underground and became very sneaky. Really no one knew, except him. Even the boys (we'd ask them and they said they hadn't noticed anything). But then my husband became really angry and started finding all kinds of ways to criticize me. Our older son was pretty much out of the house by this time, but all of this had a BIG impact on our younger son. He started acting just as nasty and selfish as my husband. All during this time I had been getting a LOT of therapy and was growing much stronger and able to verbalize my observations and needs. My husband and son also started getting a little therapy, but I was the one viewed with "problems". When I would try to reign in my sons most selfish or rude behavior, I wouldn't get any support from my husband, because I believe he was protecting this unresolved part in himself. On the outside we have this highly successful family. I am a dentist getting a post-doc in psychology. My husband is a professor. And my younger son just graduated as class valedictorian from high school. But "inside" our family there was this huge unresolved conflict going on. As I kept insisting on my ways, finally my husband said he wanted a divorce (I should have been the one asking for this, but it was typical...) He then found someone on the internet and after 2 e-mails moved out with her. This was in April. This ended a month or so later and he's moved back into the house, much to everyone's discomfort. My younger son will be going off to college at the end of August, and has really clammed up about any feelings. Luckily he is still going for the counseling. I am being blamed for everything. Huge anger from both my husband and my son. Throughout all of this I had kept drinking, thinking I was in control. I seemed to be most of the time. Then I started dating a lovely man who comes from an abusive alcoholic family, but has had lots of therapy. In his presence my drinking wasn't restricted and I could begin to see my alcoholic patterns; how deeply and unconsciously I relied on alcohol. When I almost wrecked this relationship by drinking too much on 2 occassions I really could take stock of myself and see how the alcohol was doing destructive things in my life, by sucking up all my self-esteem into guilt every time I drank. I had worked sooo hard to get this self-esteem in the first place and with the alcohol it just evaporated!! Sooo, I quit a week ago and started going to AA almost bidaily. I am really commmitted now and am already feeling some of the miracles, because I have been doing the twelve steps all along, for a very long time. I have a deep spiritual practice with yoga and meditation, have done week long buddhist retreats, extensive work with dreams, not to mention a lengthy psychoanalysis. But now I come to the topic. With all of this change and a daily budding deep happiness, my son just seems to be getting angrier and angrier. My husband has been gone this whole time. Even though MY changes have been happening for quite a while, I guess somehow on the deepest level I still couldn't get out from being the family scapegoat. I have great hopes this won't follow the pattern mentioned by the several "old timer" men, whose families never did come around. In some ways I guess their circumstances were different in that they were more aggressive during their drinking days, but then I don't know. I leave the floor open for further discussion.
Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson MI
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 9:19:53 AM
I lived on the "merry-go-round" of alcohol for a long time. Sober-drunk-sober-drunk, etc. During all this time my family and friends got more disgusted with me. They no longer believed my promises to sober up, straighten up, and fly right. At this present time my family has disowned me, will not talk to me, return my phone calls, letters, etc. The only friends I have left are a few AA members that I trust but they are tired of my problem too. I have to remember that I cannot control other people. Given time my family may come back to me or they may not. I will make new friends. If I stay sober, trust God, and work the steps, my life will be reasonably happy and productive. Prayer helps me a lot.
Member: Solvie A.
Location: Suffolk County
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 9:30:16 AM
Mike, How long have you been sober?
Member: Alexander
Location: SW US
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 9:30:41 AM
Alexander here, I'm an Alcoholic. Solvie, from my experience, it doesn't have to end up with everyone being estranged. My drinking behavior had become so unbearable to my family that there were lots of issues. Son in College, sort of removed from the family, only 60 miles away, but not wanting to come visit his family very often...I wonder why? High school aged daughter acting out. My wife and I finally ended up in a pretty nasty divorce. I went to re-hab. Joined AA. "BOUGHT" the program. I knew I was out of control. If AA could help me, I wasn't going to fight. I did what I was told to do. As a result, the new me...sans alcohol, became someone the family wanted to be around. I regained my son's and daughter's respect. We re-married on what would have been our 25th anniversary, and are much happier than we were during the past ten or so years of my drinking. To my way of thinking, it was a situation where I had to re-earn the family's respect. By the grace of God, I am now able to maintain a serene life with fewer bumps in the road. It's not perfect, but my higher power and I are able to get thru the daily issues, and doing it one day at a time sure is easier than it used to me. So, Solvie, my suggestion is to have faith, take care of yourself, and when it's time, things will work out the way the H.P. wants them to work out.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 10:17:04 AM
When i got to the fellowship my marriage was over i had insane idea that my wife of 15 years would take me back-but she had a someone else in her life-my ex couldnt have kids -so that was a blessing! i blamed her for all my problems! but the more i got to meetings and getting a sponser and bringing the program into my life- Ilet go and got on with my own life and to-day im married again and have two lovely boys! this illness is a family one! it effects all of our close family-"and we wonder why they react! family or soberiety ! get sober first , Regards L-RAY
Member: Tom M.
Location: Homosassa, FL
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 10:38:08 AM
Hi Tom M a grateful recovering alcoholic. To Solvie A. from Suffolk. Its rather strange because the topic you seem to have chosen is the steps I was thinking of asking people to comment on, and that is the eight and ninth steps in the Big Book of A.A.on page 59. (8) "Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all." And (9)Made direct amends to such people where ever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." From what you have said yourself. You are no where near makeing these stepts. From what I read I am not sure you have even taking the first step. (1) "We addmitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives hade become unmanagable." May I make a suggestion to you and to anyone new to the program. Keep going to meetings. Its easy to sit a our computers and say things. Its another thing to go to a FTF meeting. At these meetings look for the people (Ladies in your case) who appear to be working a program. Someone who has had a few years of soberity, and is working the steps. When you find these ladies ask one of them to be your sponcer. If she is working a good program she will be flatered at your request. Once you have your sponcer listen to her. Discuss everything with her. I know you would like your life to return to the better days and they can but it takes time and they won't be the same, but they can be better. I'm what you would call an "Old timer". I have been working my program for over eleven years. I'm 62. I had been in and out of A.A. for over 35 years. Once I got serious and wanted to stay sober I did just what I am telling you and any new commers to do. So far it has worked. With the help of my Higher Power who I choose to call Jesus Christ, the people in the rooms and meeting halls of A.A., I will have my 13th birthday May 15 2004. Today I have everything I want. My wife bless her heart has stayed with me all these years. We will be married 38 years May 25th. I have two Sons. For a long time they wanted very little to do with me, but next week my oldest son and his wife and my grand-daughter and my wife are going deep sea fishing. So you see it can happen. Not that it will, but with patience, love and working a good program it CAN happen. So to Solvie and all the new comers, hang in there, go to your meetings and thanks for the opportunity to share.
Member: kimberley
Location: seattle
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 11:37:24 AM
kimberley here alchoilic, my family of origin is in complete denial that there ever was a alchol problem in the house so si grew up thinking that and then i took a drink and it rocketed me into a whole new atmosphere, my family and my x husband are never going to get or have a program i however choose to live this program and i have benn given a whole new family one that is not bound by blood or bonds but by love and compassion, we choose our families in this program and it is a miraclem i sdtill have contact with my family but if they affect my sobriety negatavily then i walk away, and straight into a meeting, you can spend your whole life trying to right those wrongs, the first person you must forgive is yourself, and to stop playing old tapes in the mind, this is a forward program, " never again can we recapture the great moments of our youth, live today and be free, love kimberley
Member: Marv L
Location: Laurel,Ms
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 12:32:55 PM
Hi,Marv L,Alcoholic,grateful to be sober 22 years this month by the grace of my Higher POwer,the AA fellowship,and the twelve steps..Solvie, p a t i e n c e is the word!! Our alcoholic insanity wreacked some damage to furniture,but most of it was on family..and working the program helps clear away the wreckage of our past--yeah,some oldtimers MAY reveal they feel they havent gotten back all they expected..maybe expectations were a little high; Life sober means living in the NOW,and AA helps me do that.My worst day sober beats my best day drunk,just that simple,and I focus on the good things life has brought.Thank you all for helping me deal with a life threatening illness,and find a program of recovery that is indeed life-giving!! May I repeat what Kim just advised: "LIVE TODAY AND BE FREE!" Love ya,Marv.
Member: Kevin
Location: Kansas
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 12:51:56 PM
Solvie in Suffolk County^^^^=== Cool beans dolly. thanks for sharing your life with us, i appreciate it. hey, listen sweetie, aa guys/women "old-timers" are just people too and have NO special privalige on anything. they are jsut not driking alot of them and alot depends on time started an all that too. ive been sober as long as i drank now--12 years--but so what. im still young enough too as i didn't start till i was late in high school but thats a ig plus too. anyway, hey family is important and being united with kids is too--so you keep on pluggin and of course not drinkin is a slight help, but its only a start. you can do lots of things but loving isnt always so easy and your situation sounds tough. i love you sharing and will pray for your family as well as you. you can maybe just try being overly kind to hubby, ever try that. go out of your way to to the old kill 'em with kindness thing. hey just a thought as it works for me with my wife, but thats just with us. i mean dont act like a mush or anything, just be EASY and GENTLE thats all. no harsh words and/or looks actions etc. ect. whatever. just be kind and loving and let his concious work on him. hes a prof and smart enough to marry you and youve got kids, he must care a lot so let him work it out for himself. just love him and see what happens.
Member: Pam B - Sobergirl91 at hotmail.com
Location: Last drink or drug: 11/18/91
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 2:27:04 PM
Hi, I'm Pam - an alcoholic. (((Solvie))) for me, until applying all that info from therapy into my own inventory-taking via the 12 Steps - & with the help of a good sponsor who lived the 12 Steps herself & could guide me - none of that therapy stuff had ever been any real benefit to me until the 12 Steps brought it all together for me. - I also never came to AA nor doing the Steps to 'fix' my family situation nor to win anyone's approval of me. I did all that because I wanted to be sober, to change & to grow spiritually - to grow up. I made that complete surrender to God's Will for my life & trusted what the program told me: that if I keep my sobriety my #1 top priority before anything else, with willingness to go any lengths to achieve 'sobriety' (sane balanced thinking) - then all else in my life will fall into place & go as its meant to (of its own accord)if I let go & let God take care of all that while each day I keep doing the Footwork as I need to be doing for me. - If we are Honest, Open-minded & Willing to follow the suggestions of this program the way they're given, one day at a time, these 12 Steps are designed to bring us out of conflict with ourselves, life, God & other people. --- When I changed my thinking around to that I wanted to grow & learn how to BE the right person for meaningful loving relationships with others (rather than wanting them to be that way for me) - that is the result that eventually materialized. --- Its been a number of years now that I have good love-filled highly pleasant relationships even w/both of my parents that I'd grown up defensively believing hated me. I've had positive nurturing close loving relationships w/each of my 4 children as well. ---- None of them have changed - its ME who has changed. ---- That did not happen overnight. - but if I hadn't begun at the beginning with putting one foot in front of the other, relying on God & doing as I needed for working on me each day - it never would have become the loving family relations I'd always deeply longed to have. Email anytime if you'd like to chat. So glad you've started in AA. I daily thank God for giving us this program. --- thank you all for letting me share. Pam
Member: Dale W
Location: W.Y.
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 2:53:34 PM
Hi! my name is Dale and I'm an alcoholic. Good topic! the big book talks about a long period of reconstruction. not only with family members but in every aspect of our lives. My two favorite sayings that my sponsor tells me are 1)It's a process not an event! 2)How do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time. For me it was a long period of construction and it is still going on. My oldest son who never talked with me for over 20yrs is now talking with me, my youngest son who ocasionally talked with me talks even more and my daughter who still hasn't talked to me since I got sober. Yes there is plenty of damage my drinking has caused and in my higher powers time not mine will he allow them back in my life. All I can do is continue practicing the steps, and principals A.A. has taught me. Wheather my family talks with me or not Imust remember what the big book says. weather the family goes on a spiritual basis or not I MUST. So it don't matter if they are in unity with me, I MUST be in unity with them. So I still send b-day presents, X-Mas presents, call to say Hi, ect.. The main thing is to get a sponsor, get in the big book, find a higher power, and KEEP COMING BACK! Thanks
Member: Dennis R.
Location: Washington State
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 3:07:46 PM
I am Dennis. I am an alcoholic. (Solvie) My parents are very supportive of my recovery. They had tried to tell me for some time that I had a drinking problem but I remained in denial. Although, I have not lost their love or support, my brother and sister are alienated. I don't know how to regain their trust and respect beyond taking that one day at a time along with my sobriety.
Member: Nadine S.
Location: Canandaigua,NY
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 4:12:12 PM
Hi, I'm Nadine and I'm an alcoholic. (Solvie), I can really relate to your intensity. My sponser tells me "EASY DOES IT". If you don't have a sponser... GET ONE.. this is definately a "WE" program. Hang out with the people you know are working the program. Stay in the middle of the AA ROOF then it's harder to fall off. I attend daily meetings and one is a AA literature meeting. It's my home group and I hold a service position. It's funny I really didn't like tis particular meeting when I first started going but I kept going back and now I wouldn't miss it for the world. To get to the topic... ahhh...healthy relationships... something an active alcoholic or dry drunk is INCAPABLE of having...your on the right path give it sometime. Acceptance is the key. It may work out .. it may not not.. matter what , DON'T DRINK, GO TO MEETINGS, TALK TO OTHER RECOVERING ALCOHOLICS, GET A HIGHER POWER, GET A SPONSER, WORK THE STEPS, HELP A FELLOW ALCOHOLIC AND MOST IMPORTANTLY.... DON'T DRINK....NAMNASTE.
Member: Owen L
Location: Southern California
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 5:00:37 PM
Hi folks, I'm Owen and I'm an alcoholic. In response to Solvie A's comments, I'd like to add these thoughts... It seems to me that your interest is misdirected, You sound as though you wish to remain sober so your family will return to you and all will be happy again. I am considered an "old timer" in AA. I have seen many people come and go because they were in AA to "Fix" someone else! My alcoholism and sobriety are my problem and I need to want to stay sober to fix ME. I had to accept that I could possibly lose my family, my friends, my lifestyle and everything else as a result of giving up alcohol and drugs but "was willing to go to any length" to get sober and stay sober "one day at a time". In my experience, I made new friends, my family came back to me after I had successfully proven that I could work the steps of AA in my life, stay sober, and had a genuine interest in helping myself to work towards getting well. This whole process took about a year of sobriety to accomplish, but Never once was I in a meeting to change my family, change my friends or my lifestyle. Sobriety is about changing ME! When I am well I can accept others and understand them better with compassion in my heart. I can now see that It wasn't "all their fault" that my life was all screwed up. It was my fault! As an example, I lived in a 1972 Chevy Malibu Station wagon for most of my first year of sobriety because my only other living choice was to go back to my shared apartment with my brother who was constantly Drinking and using cocaine. I had a choice...live in a nice place with an active alcoholic or move out and live on my own. Living in a car is a very humbling experience. I ran my mobile DJ business from a car that I lived in and went to AA meetings daily. Subsiquently, I ended up being the sober DJ for all of the sober dance events in the San Fernando Valley California for four (4) years. Just my willingness along with the program of AA, step studies, my sponsor, my higher power and people who believed in me, I re-invented myself! You can do this too! You can have anything in this life that you want, but you need to have a life first. Go to meetings, get a sponsor, honestly work the program of AA in your life, and let AA show you the life you have never had SOBER!
Member: Suzyqnj
Location: Nj
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 5:34:26 PM
Solvie, when I got sober I left my husband. He is also an alcholic. I didn't drink and I went to meetings, for a long time. I did the best I could with my three children, on my own. My best wasn't very good for a long time, but I just keep trying to do the 'right thing' as a Mom and put staying sober as a priority in my life. Nowadays, my children behave like 'normal children' and I behave like a 'normal' Mom. I have found a New Way of Liveing and it has not only changed my life but also that of my children. I like to think I have earned there love and respect, but that doesn't really matter. What really matters is that I give them the best that I can of myself and I have more to give to them then I ever did before. I believe that in the end it will all benifit them, they are my precious angels. As far as my husband, even if he did get sober and became a decent careing man, I would never go back. Not only have I learned that controling, blameing, and manipulateing is NOT how a relationship should be, but I also have learned how to be a person. An individual person who does not 'need' to be with a man to define who I am. I have a close and careing relationship with all my brothers and sisters. My Father never saw me get sober, but my mother was very happy with my new life, and when she died, I read at her funeral mass, what a blessing. it all takes time. It tooks years to eat away at all of these relationships. Some cna be mended, some cannot, but today I can live wiht myself and hold my head up high.
Member: Maureen P
Location: Tucson, AZ
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 7:35:06 PM
This topic is excellant, and I am reminded of what I kept hearing over and over in my early attendance in AA. Don't drink, go to meetings, make sobriety number one in your day. When you get up in the morning ask your higher power to keep you away from a drink, if sucessful that day, that your higher power for keeping you sober. The time in between must be centered around staying sober, calling your sponser, getting to a meeting, you cannot begin a new life without alcohol without making sobriety your priority. Family, friends, jobs will have to take a back seat, they can't get sober for you and are not responsible for keeping you sober. Keep it simple, take baby steps, it took you a while to get where you are, everything takes time. It doesn't matter how many degrees you have, I met a man with a PHD who couldn't stay sober and lived on the streets. If you are sober, you have a priceless gift that needs constant vigilence to be maintained. I will keep you in my prayers. ONE DAY AT A TIME Maureen
Member: Mark
Location: NY
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 10:04:12 PM
Constant vigilance to stay sober? That's yet another UNthinking AA quip, nothing more. I've been sober a long time and I'm not vigilant about it. Matter of fact, I never even have to think about it as the desire's been removed, so where the stupid saying came from I don't know, and don't care, it's incorrect for a LOT of us. I never even think about drinking except at meetings, yet another reason NOT to go to them! Solvie)) I too am very well educated--so what? So are many drunks, but the one who makes the most sense on this entire page is Kevin from Kansas who can't even hardly spell anything correctly. All that intellect is great, try using it. It works a heck of lot better sober too, I can assure you of that! Plus I get to decide for myself about AA meetings,my relationships, and basically everything else in life for that matter. Do what you want, but asking for crazies in AA to give their opinions isn't exactly the smartest place to begin---unless it's about drinking.......
Member: mike r
Location: mt forest.ont canada
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 10:15:32 PM
I'm Mike,I am angreatful recovering alcoholic. My parents are very supportive of my recovery. They had tried to tell me for some time that I had a drinking problem but I remained in denial. Although, I have not lost their love or support even when I was puting their lives throught hell, my brothers are alienated. I don't know how to regain their trust and respect beyond taking that one day at a time along with my sobriety.I have talke to my sponsor about my brothers and he had said it was up to them and if they wheren't up to excepting my new life that is their choice and that I would have to try it over to my HP which I have done. I have a new family which is my home group . My sponsor is more like a brother to me then my own brother. All I can say to all of you is keep in touch with your sponsors and groups and remembering that we have HP as well for the Grace of God. Love you All Take care
Member: Amber W.
Location: Atlanta
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 10:45:55 PM
I'm Amber an acoholic.Family is tough, I have gotten a little better in that area. I pray for the knowledge of God's will in my life and I believe that is to stay sober. I confronted a secret in my families lies, and I have been ignored and called a liar. I said my peace, Did not argue the point any more and now know that they chose to live out the lie.I still talk to them and have accepted I am no longer accepted. We speak on occasion but that is it. I have learned to allow them the right to be who they are and feel more connected to people of truth. I respect them as people but if I go back and live the lie to be accepted then I will be sick again. I went through to much pain to go back to the lie.I have a full life today and my occasional challenges with my family but I have learned to mind my own business and send cards. Excuse myself when I am uncomfortable and move on! LIFE GOES ON. We think we have to like our family members when we get sober and we find after soberity we have little in common but a past. I still honor my Mother, My Father is dead and love my siblings enough to let them make there own mistakes. Time takes time. Always remember to go to meetings, Accept what comes down the pipe, And to mind your own business. That was told to me, I cannot get in other peoples stuff if I do not get in it. I take care of me. Help others if they want it.God bless.
Member: Mark
Location: NY
Date: 8/3/2003
Time: 11:00:41 PM
Constant vigilance to stay sober? That's yet another UNthinking AA quip that doesn’t apply to ME, nothing more. I've been sober a long time, in fact since long before the world began, and I'm not vigilant about it. Matter of fact, I never even have to think about it as I’m constantly drunk over glorying in myself, as you all should be too, so where the stupid saying came from I don't know, and don't care, it's incorrect for a LOT of us. I never even think about drinking except at meetings when people are giving their attention to someone else instead of worshipping ME!, yet another reason NOT to go to them! Solvie)) I too am very well educated—I am the authority on everything about everything--so what? So are many drunks, but the one I look down my nose the most at on this entire page are the ones who are like Kevin from Kansas who can't even hardly spell anything correctly. All that intellect is great when sitting around on bar stools, where I try using it the most. It works a heck of lot better there than being sober too, I can assure you of that! Plus, while the boys tip a few brewskies & I pontificate how great I am, I get to decide for myself about AA meetings, my relationships, and basically everything else in life for that matter. Do what you want, but asking for crazies in AA to give their opinions instead of asking ME isn't exactly the smartest place to begin---unless it's about drinking.......
Member: solvie A
Location: suffolk county
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 12:56:19 AM
Hey everyone! I want to thank you for all your contributions today, all your kind and encouraging words. To Mark -- thank you as well. I realize that everyone always puts their own perspective and coloring onto things. I am not into blaming my family or saying they caused all my problems. I take lots of ownership, and I also realize deeply that I can't change them -- all I can change is myself. I know that time is the answer to lots of things. I do just try to keep being loving and non-confrontational, but also not a push over. I feel very encouraged by everything, everyone has said. Thank you again, and I will be back tomorrow.
Member: ..
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 3:09:09 AM
Hey Maddox...err...Mark, good to see you here LOL
Member: Mark
Location: NY
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 7:30:11 AM
Just for the record Solvie, and everyone else)))) It must say something about the level of intolerance that my simple, honest post was copied and pasted with some "sober AA persons" spin on it. I rest my case about what is much, much too prevalent in AA. All I'm saying Solvie is that you have to be extremely wary of people in AA, that's all. Take care and best wishes.
Member: solvie As
Location: suffolk county
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 8:36:27 AM
Well this is all very interesting. Mark, I'm not so sure that "extremely wary" is necessarily what is necessary... Isn't that the same as the original "constant vigilance" you were questioning. I believe everyone has the best intentions, it's just that we each come from out own unique, individual place and give the advice which we think would be best. It's true that can be a problem when someone is really susceptible; but I think that's part of the beauty of AA, because there are always balancing perspectives. And, if we truely believe in our higher power, than we have to trust that the information and advice coming our way, and the particular parts of it on which our attention focuses, will be the right things for us. My intention in writing my little story yesterday wasn't to get "advice", it was to share something which I found troubling, to bring it to the larger group, so that I was no longer carrying it inside. Where people come from in their replies just tells me a LOT about them and what their particular needs are or what particular issues they are working on in the fore front. I also agree with you about the need or desire being wiped out. This time that's exactly how I feel. It's a miracle. I've heard many other AA members also talk about that. But, I think there's a balance then between constant vigilance and just staying very conscious. Because our mind can play tricks on us. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for listening everyone.
Member: Maureen P
Location: Tucson, AZ
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 9:03:38 AM
Hi Guys, the beauty of AA too is that we can take what we need and leave the rest. Everyone has their own stories to tell, what works for some would not work for others. As a grateful recovering alcoholic, the only thing I can share is my own experience, strength and hope. Take what you want, put the rest on a shelf. Solvie, you sound like an honest, caring person who really wants a better life. With sobriety you will get what you need. You and your family are in my prayers. God Bless, ODAT, Maureen
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 9:17:58 AM
Hi Solvie, Thanks for sharing about your family dynamics and problems. It is something all us alkies have in common. Mark, NY, I think I'll hear the sound of your head popping out of your ass here in NH. If it ever does? I was and am the family scapegoat with my siblings and mother. Once they pinned alcoholic on me it was open season to dump on me. Thats OK today because I'm working the program of AA. AA is a selfish program because it has to come first to work, even above your family. As for being highly intelligent, that can be a detriment to getting sober, trying to reason our way out of it or thinking that other methods, therapy, diet, exercise, books etc. will solve our drinking. The only thing that has worked for me was AA and the 12 Steps. Your husband sounds very controlling. Since you are trying to stop drinking know it will get worse before it gets better. The more healthy you get the more he loses his control over you and that means he will fight to regain control. He went and had the affair and that did not work... He lost his scapegoat and now the blame rests on him and he does not like it. He lost his role in the family. We are all sick people and we lead sick lives but we can get well in AA. You need to stop worrying about THEM and worry about YOU. They will either come around or not to the idea that you are sober. My children really respect me and are my biggest fans. As for relationships I say from the get go that I can do whatever I want in this world as long as I don't drink. If a man can't acccept that he comes second to my sobriety it is over. I'm a lot pickier now because I have my selfworth back. I demand respect from my children and people in my life. It is funny how I get what I need just by insisting upon it. If I don't get it I don't worry about it, I just keep moving forward on my spiritual path. Somehow you gave up your power and it is never too late to get it back. Everything I learned about sobriety and healthy relationships I found in AA not sitting across from a shrink. I had to do the inside job, (The Steps) and then just worry about keeping my side of the street clean. Offering amends and then my job is through. It is a simple program and it works. Try working Step 1 and then 2 and so on and I think you will feel like me, happy joyous and free. Take away all the details in your story and your just a drunk with family problems just like me. Good Luck and God Bless in finding a solution. Kelly ;)
Member: solvie A
Location: suffolk county
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 10:08:02 AM
Kelly, I really enjoyed what you wrote. So, much real wisdom there, especially about my husband now loosing his role and his scapegoat. That'd make anyone quite upset and want to fight against it, huh?... Yes, the demanding respect part is what I had been trying to do for some time with my younger son, and kept getting undermined by my husband. All very subtle stuff. But now that we really are two separate people it is very different. Before we were just "mumdaddy" (literally what my younger son used to call either one of us!! -- cute at the time, but...). It is true about getting what one needs just by demanding it. And for a long time I've been seeing this everywhere else in my life, just not on that most intimate frontier, the family. It is true, as you so perceptively note, that somehow I gave up my power here and it's a huge struggle to get it back. But I have to disagree with you about the shrink part. I have found my therapy of immense value, and in fact so rewarding that I have gone back to school and think I can really use some of the insights from my own spiritual path to deeply help others. This doesn't mean that one has to "choose" between AA or therapy. I want and need both and find them of great value. Thanks for the the blessing.
Member: Mark
Location: NY
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 10:22:36 AM
No Kelly NH, it's not something all alkies have in common, it's something all HUMAN BEINGS have in common. Being an alkie is NOT a virtue, or even a "good" thing. That's the point, we are not special, that's ludicrous if not downright insane. We have a problem WE created, not the others who "used us as a scapegoat." Grow up and take some reponsibility for your own actions! But yes, Solvie, semantically I may have used the wrong choice of words, or not. You can play with "extremely wary," and "vigilant" all you want to, in the end we'll all find out the Truth!
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 11:15:36 AM
Kelly, your newcomer stripes are showing!
Member: Pam B - dbl dipping
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 12:13:06 PM
Excellent post (((Kelly))) - no need to give thought to who is sick & who isn't, which advise is good & which isn't - because as long as we follow the suggestion to get a good sponsor - we can run everything we hear by them & get the help we need when we don't know which to take & which is the rest to leave. Its a "we" program. - I pray for Guidance from God - & I have always found that He speaks to me thru others when they simply share their own E,S&H. - If we trust & rely on God then there's nothing to fear >>>> (((Solvie))) my ES&H has been that when one family member begins to get healthy - the rest of the family does not know how to act or respond - & feel out of control - will try to get you to revert back to old unhealthy ways so they can have control (the book "The Dance of Anger" is about this) - I applied understanding, empathy, compassion - leaving it to God do His Will for them - they can only be where they are at until & if they ever get their own help - so I pray for them & let them be - I just refuse to participate (but never accept unacceptable behavior)--- The next paragraph after pg 449 on Acceptance (3rd Edition BB) begins talking about surrendering 'my rights' to God's Care. - I also read in Anne Smith's journal (Dr Bob's wife) that every morning in her Step 3 decision for the day she surrendered 'her rights' to the care of God. ----- If there be 'rights' we have to be treated in a certain way as human beings, God will surely enforce them for us. We do not have to be that enforcer by our will. (trying to be our own enforcer of our 'rights' is what makes us stressed out & crazy) --- if a situation is unacceptable tho, I simply removing myself from it. -----I have found that when I evaluate how another person is "today" & look at it they likely will remain this way for the rest of their life, then I decide whether I love & accept them 'as is'. If I decide to love & accept them 'as is' then I give them respect & their own dignity ("rights") to live their own life how they choose to. (let them decide on their own what they may ever want to do w/it or not) - then treating me w/respect began returning from them. (a "what we give is what we get" thing) - my family relations have improved so greatly because I changed.
Member: Pam B - dbl dipping
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 12:13:07 PM
Excellent post (((Kelly))) - no need to give thought to who is sick & who isn't, which advise is good & which isn't - because as long as we follow the suggestion to get a good sponsor - we can run everything we hear by them & get the help we need when we don't know which to take & which is the rest to leave. Its a "we" program. - I pray for Guidance from God - & I have always found that He speaks to me thru others when they simply share their own E,S&H. - If we trust & rely on God then there's nothing to fear >>>> (((Solvie))) my ES&H has been that when one family member begins to get healthy - the rest of the family does not know how to act or respond - & feel out of control - will try to get you to revert back to old unhealthy ways so they can have control (the book "The Dance of Anger" is about this) - I applied understanding, empathy, compassion - leaving it to God do His Will for them - they can only be where they are at until & if they ever get their own help - so I pray for them & let them be - I just refuse to participate (but never accept unacceptable behavior)--- The next paragraph after pg 449 on Acceptance (3rd Edition BB) begins talking about surrendering 'my rights' to God's Care. - I also read in Anne Smith's journal (Dr Bob's wife) that every morning in her Step 3 decision for the day she surrendered 'her rights' to the care of God. ----- If there be 'rights' we have to be treated in a certain way as human beings, God will surely enforce them for us. We do not have to be that enforcer by our will. (trying to be our own enforcer of our 'rights' is what makes us stressed out & crazy) --- if a situation is unacceptable tho, I simply removing myself from it. -----I have found that when I evaluate how another person is "today" & look at it they likely will remain this way for the rest of their life, then I decide whether I love & accept them 'as is'. If I decide to love & accept them 'as is' then I give them respect & their own dignity ("rights") to live their own life how they choose to. (let them decide on their own what they may ever want to do w/it or not) - then treating me w/respect began returning from them. (a "what we give is what we get" thing) - my family relations have improved so greatly because I changed.
Member: Robert M.
Location: Columbus, Oh.
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 1:52:13 PM
Hi, Robert, and an alcoholic. Wow, tough topic. I have heard some stories from those in recovery for over 20 years who have yet to get their loved ones back in their life. I can also tell you that I did some things that really aren't that deserving of forgiveness. And I made enough promises, that I really cannot blame someone if they don't believe me "this time". Our lives and our sobriety do not have to be determined by others. This is where the serenity prayer becomes so helpful to me. If I can change a situation, and I want it to change, then I need to change it. However, there are some situations ln life, everyones life, that cannot and will not be changed. This is why we have to have acceptance. www.alcoholrecovery.net
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 2:15:14 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. It sounds like the topic is mending relationships with family, or repairing the 'wreckage of our past'. Great topics. There's a lot of good info and suggestions in the chapters 'Working with others' and 'The Family afterwards'. Both chapters emphasize conentrating on our own spiritual demonstrations (actions). Very important, I believe, are these two statements, "Burn the idea into the conciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house" and "Let no alcoholic say he cannot recover unless he has his family back. This just isn't so." As for me: When I first started in sobriety, my marriage was a shambles of cheating, violence, etc, my family estranged, my boss wanted to fry my *ss, etc. My strong impulse was to force change in my husband's/parents'/boss's/etc's mind about me (see how good I'm doing/see how wrong you've been). My sponsor said to concentrate on 'first things first'; my powerlessness over alcohol, my budding belief in a power greater than self, my decision to turn my life and will (actions and thoughts) over to God, etc. Since I'd made a commitment to listen to her, I tried this. I came to see I was really trying to arrange everything to suit me (if THEY change, I'll be happy). When -I- changed, and started acting patient, tollerant and accepting of myself & the people in my life who'd gotten VERY sick while living with me, well, things got a lot better (along with not acting like a doormat anymore). The operative words for me are 'change' and 'action'. Also, that ugly four letter word 'time'. Glad you all are here, and me, too!
Member: day day day
Location: chay chay chay
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 3:48:45 PM
In as much as we are most concerned with the big book of alcoholics anonymous it follows that these steps if taken in this order bringeth us unto God. So, it must needs be then that we must seek and find what it is to be amidst the family of God in such a manner as the bible instructs us or for tells us what shall become of us and our family relations. If so be that we let go absolutly we shall no doubt find that we must leave all to find all On the other hand God rears up children and there are those who will not find it there calling to become disciples, who will not leave there nets as it were to follow christ but and if you do there is great reward for you For no one who has left house or home or family or lands for that matter will not receive as much in this life and in the end eternal life You must hate your life enough to give it all to God it is thus required that half measures avail nothing in the first hand knowledge of God yet He opens his hand and satisfies the disires of every living thing..
Member: Jeff H
Location: mid.Missouri
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 4:23:25 PM
No comments, to new to say.Just soaking it all in and retaining what applies to me.Thank you,God Bless
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 5:26:04 PM
ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD SAY TO DO THE STEPS IN ORDER ONLY!!! IDIOT!!!
Member: David H
Location: Nashville
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 6:32:06 PM
When I first got sober my family wanted little to do with me either and rightly so I was the tornado the big book talks about reeking havoc with everybody I came in contact with. When I was in treatment I too wanted to defocus on myself and start working on fixing my family. Luckly my counselor pointed out that they were not the ones in treatment. I simply loved to run the show( yeah I still do) and manipulate control everyone to get my way then I didnt have to look at myself and my behavior. Later I got a black belt sponsor and he put me onto that 4th and 5th step and i learned I was my problem. Another old timer told me to draw a circle around myself because there was the problem. Today my relationships with my family is pretty good but it took some time and work, stepwork that is.
Member: David H
Location: Nashville
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 6:32:07 PM
When I first got sober my family wanted little to do with me either and rightly so I was the tornado the big book talks about reeking havoc with everybody I came in contact with. When I was in treatment I too wanted to defocus on myself and start working on fixing my family. Luckly my counselor pointed out that they were not the ones in treatment. I simply loved to run the show( yeah I still do) and manipulate control everyone to get my way then I didnt have to look at myself and my behavior. Later I got a black belt sponsor and he put me onto that 4th and 5th step and i learned I was my problem. Another old timer told me to draw a circle around myself because there was the problem. Today my relationships with my family is pretty good but it took some time and work, stepwork that is.
Member: Solvie A.
Location: Suffolk County
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 7:50:45 PM
Hey everyone. As I was driving home from the city today, it hit me how on some very deep level I felt totally independent. I have NEVER felt that way completely, but I did today. It was that there would always be friends and support and new relationships and changed old ones and I didn't ever need to feel alone. The AA fellowship has shown me this, and it is giving me more P A T I E N C E to just let time take its course. I can't change others, I can just give love and kindness and take care of myself. A lot of your comments yesterday were sort of sinking in I guess. Thanks!
Member: Donnie M.
Location: Short Gap, WV (D.O.S. 3-1-99)
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 8:56:44 PM
Is this the discussion group anymore or is it the bitch and re-bitch meeting. There is a space for multiple post and that is called the coffee pot. I like to here about the topic not how your day was<<<Solvie A>>> I had my wife before I was a full blown alkie and I have her now. We have been together for eighteen years and she has had the forgive and forget kind of philosphy with my recovery although we have had some rough times in and out of soberity but we both admit it is the we part of our relationship that we could have never made it without the support of each other and the AA fellowship.
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/4/2003
Time: 10:20:27 PM
solvie, doll>>> Donnie's right, you need to hit the "pot" sweetie-pie.....Enough already!
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 1:07:27 AM
HI, Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. Getting the love of your family back is dependant on a number of things. How severe the alcoholism. How much damage was done. And more importantly, How the Amends were handled. I took full responsibility for my drinking. No excuses.. No finger pointing. I made my amends and just waited for the results. It is also dependant on whether the family is in recovery or not. Al-Anon; Al-Ateen; Al-Atot; Al-Apet; Al-Awhatever. In my case there were two families involved. One I gained back and one I lost in sobriety. For several years now, I have been visiting my former wife, my hubby-in-law and all six of my girls. I am loved and am welcome in all of their homes. In one case it took 17 years past the divorce and 9 years into my sobriety for the last daughter to take me back into her heart. So it does take time. But even at that some old resentments arose on this last visit. I just told the one involved that my amends were made...It is now water over the dam. Then I just detached with love. This all does not happen overnight just because we quit drinking. It takes time. So the bottom line is I gained a family in recovery and I lost a family in recovery. Any questions..just email me. Love ya Bill
Member: Sito T
Location: Vega Baja, Puerto Rico
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 9:12:31 AM
Good topic! When I quit drinking, I thought I would regain the love of my family, but things didn't happen my way and that really hurt. My ex-wife fell in love with someone else which gave me a lot of resentments and jealousies. I remarried, and my higher power has given me the love I needed. It was very difficult for me to accept I could not regain the love of my ex-wife again, but my higher power had other plan for me.
Member: Salty sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 9:47:05 AM
Mike of Jackson Mi..Try Step 1
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 9:52:26 AM
Mark of NY as a drunk I could only suffer and stumble on deeper into the dread and disease of alcoholism. As an admitted alcoholic i have the ability to recover. I am very glad to be an alcoholic.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 9:59:36 AM
Solvie..The Serenity Prayer states that I can only change me. The Family suffers worse than the alcoholic. I get well and remember my family is going to treat me the way I teach them to treat me. So I keep sending out positive messages and keep praying for forgiveness.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 10:11:38 AM
Donnie..My wife supported me through the entire healing process. We are still together and still growing together. It was a long haul but all the family has accepted things as they are and forgave. You are right Donnie. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)is the way to go head.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 10:19:01 AM
Only An Idiot! Try going up the Hancock Tower with out fo;;owin the steps in order or try taking two ar three at a time! They are set this manner for a purpose. Acceptence is important.
Member: Bob
Location: UK
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 11:04:58 AM
Bob here ...alcoholic. This is a good topic. When I got into the program I thought I'd lost everything. Actually I'd rather hoped I had since I didn't want to face my wife and kids ever again. I rationalised that 'Someone who had behaved like like so much shit doesn't deserve to have a family' Actually I think I was just shit-scared of making any attempt to make ammends - so it would have been easier if they just went away. They didn't. I've tried to live the programme and there has been a difference. I realise that they love me - it shows. And that I love them. From time to time my wife throws something about my behaviour in the past in my face but I have to accept that - she is damaged by my illness and she will never be the same person I knew before my 'active drinking'. But that's OK. The AA rooms are full of people who have similar experiences. AA teaches me that life can get better if I work the program. So I try to and it seems to work for me. I have a little more respect for myself now. Surprisingly my wife and I get on fairly well. At least we discuss our problems and we can have a good time together. The kids (both in their twenties) phone me to discuss their problems - I seem to have regained some of their trust. So far so good. Each evening so far I remind myself that 'I didn't drink today' and that is the important bit - for the rest I can rely on the help of AA and my HP. Thanks for leting me share.
Member: Joan L
Location:
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 12:38:01 PM
Hey Salty Sam We share our experience strenght and hope. Your so full of advice as to how others should run there lives. One would think you never got over playing God. WE ALL KNOW THAT WHAT YOUR DOING IS A NEAT WAY TO AVOID LOOKING AT YOURSELF
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 12:42:38 PM
we have definitely established that salty sam is an idiot. IDIOT.
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 3:09:19 PM
Kim here, alcoholic. I have been on both sides of this coin: I am an alcoholic and thus caused a lot of hurt and resentment in my familial relationships and I was also in a relationship with an alcoholic who drank again. All I can say is that as an alcoholic, I caused a lot of pain and mistrust over the years. Some of that trust took a long time to win back, and in the case of my ex-husband, the damage is irreparable. As someone who was in a relationship with someone who picked up again, I can understand the pain families feel as they are lied to, stolen from, cheated on and abondanded time and again for the bottle. However, I believe there are no victims in this type of situation, only willing participants for one reason or another. Sometimes the damage is too great to repair, and sometimes it isn't. Either way, we stay sober and continue healing ourselves, make amends for our wrongs, and discontinue old behavior.
Member: Tom A.
Location: Carlisle, AR 7/25/60
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 9:18:46 PM
Good Evening to my Staying Cyber Family, Tom A. here a grateful sober alcoholic by the grace of God and this fellowship. It's been awhile since I posted on this site, but email and other stuff is slow tonight and I clicked on to check out the topic. Wow, Solvie A. you really got this bunch going this week. I'm what the call and Old Timer in A.A. My sobriety date is July 25, 1960 and I have not found it necessary to take a drink of alcohol or other mind altering substances since my arrival. My first year in A.A. I went to 8 meetings a week and I can truthfully say today that I have never been to a bad A.A. meeting. My very first A.A. meeting provided me with the foundation for my daily sobriety when one of the speakers said "Any damn fool can stay sober for twenty-four hours," and you know its still working today. Those ole farts down there in Norfolk, Virginia offered me many suggestions on how to do it but the best advice I got was to keep all those suggestions and use what was helpful and don't throw the others away because it may be the one that will help you to stay away from that next FIRST DRINK!. I can also assure you as many have said that all of us arrive here with family problems, but another suggestion they gave me is that "Daily Sobriety is the most important thing I have for without it have nothing, including my family. Another good piece of advice I got along the way is that "most alcoholics expect to get 8 years of sobriety in 72 hours and it don't work that way. Try Easy Does It, don't drink today and learn how to love yourself again. Our love and prayers are with you Solvie and with all the other folk on this site this week. Where else could I go to find Honesty, Openmindedness and Willingness. Thanks family! God Bless - Tom A.
Member: Marky Mark
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 8/5/2003
Time: 10:04:16 PM
To my friend Salty Sam. Please read the big book. It talks about it being okay to skip steps if the need arises and also speaks about doing two steps at once. Of course, you're free to have any opinion you wish, and most people in AA have different opinions. But, of the two percent (2%) who actually get clean and sober in AA, I think you'll find agreement that it's results that count, not rigid adherence to 'following the steps in order.' Best to all.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 12:22:25 AM
For the newcomer, et al.. The Serenity Prayer does not state that all I can change is me. I have changed the way others think both in the program and in my profession as well. My ideas have been published.. What I am doing in the Serenity Prayer is asking the God of my understanding to help me differentiate between what I can work on and what I need to turn over. Whether you use or agree or disagree with me is stricky not my business. Thanks. Love ya all. Bill
Member: David B
Location: London
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 2:20:41 AM
I think I have a serious drinking problem. I am sittng with a hangover having consumed whisky to allow me to sit in a business meeting. I think I need help. I have tried AA but kept going back to drinking. What can I do?
Member: Sue Thomas
Location: Colorado
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 3:32:05 AM
sue thomas here, I know no last names been there done that I don't care who knows me. But sometimes it is nice to know you are really a person and not ashamed of who you are and we all know that our friends and family know we are drunks. Drunks the Bible says that a drunk would not enter Heaven, Jesus drank wine, but WE US abuse, do we not know when A 18 back of beer or a bottle on booze is enough I work at a restuarnt and when someone says no the second drink I'm like your kidding right how can that be? It sucks to feel the need to drink every day
Member: Kathy K.
Location: Northeast
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 5:36:27 AM
David B- London Keep going to AA meetings - regardless of what you might think of them. Your answer will come. May I suggest you post on Early Sobriety. It's meant for those new to sobriety or with questions such as yours.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 7:42:32 AM
Marky Mark..Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thourghly folled our path. 2% is a bit high on the recovery figure. I have never seen honest comments win a popularity contest as we avoid "Tough Love" like the plague. Well..for some it is O.K. is the usual "Cop-Out". Today I am sober and recovering and able to share Homestly with others. This is the benifit of being in AA
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 7:52:28 AM
Dear Idiot..It is so nice that you have taken the responsibilty to speak for the group. Fact is: AA comes in 12 Easy Lessons or as many tear filled, heart breaking, life shattering episodes youchoose to try. Each day is as you would have it. Unfortunately, AA is for those who want it not those who need it.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 7:55:36 AM
AZBill..Mental intercourse is a DISEASE. Reread the Serenity Prayer and take off your "Bleeding Deacon" outfit.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 8:00:13 AM
Tom A of Az..It is so good to hear good solid soberity echo the wonders of living sober under the care of God and his daily protection. You said it all and said it so well. Thank you
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 8:07:09 AM
Kim D. Bridgewater Thankyou. Getting out of the leaky boat onto dry land is often a long painful process. I have seen so many suffer your fate but few are able to continue in as you have. Good job..AA has no failures but the path is littered with those who have quit trying.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 8:10:23 AM
Joan l...Having had a "Spiritual Awakening" we tried to carry thsis message to others not put others down because we were bitter ourselves. Keep coming back..you will get the hang of it of you keep trying.
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 8:16:31 AM
Robert M Columbus Ohio ../Amen Brother
Member: Maureen P
Location: Tucson, AZ
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 8:59:04 AM
David of London, keep on bringing the body to AA meetings, get a sponser, make a call before you pick up a drink. You are asking for help and that is good, early sobriety chat or not. We are here for you. But for the Grace of God go I. Take one step at a time, the first step is to put down the drink and ask your Higher Power to remove your obession. If you need to go through the day a minute at a time without a drink, do so, I did and have been sober since 05/24/75, but only by God's Will, not mine. God Bless You, I will keep you in my prayers.
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 10:12:25 AM
Would somebody please shoot salty sam, a.k.a.- a real idiot? Nothing more need be said, just please--pull the trigger!!
Member: One of our esteemed
Location: collegues family problems
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 1:51:29 PM
OXFORD, Miss. -- John Daly faces more turmoil off the course, although this time it's not his own. His wife and two others are charged in a federal indictment alleging they were involved in a drug ring and an illegal gambling operation. Sherrie Miller Daly, who married the two-time major champion in 2001, appeared in court Monday in Oxford along with her father, Alvis Miller, 60; and Billie Miller, 57, whose relationship to the others wasn't clear. Daly, who recently gave birth to the couple's first child, faces up to 20 years in prison on each of the two counts in the indictment. Prosecutors said the golfer didn't know about his wife's alleged drug activities, which took place between 1996 and 2002. John Daly's agent, Bud Martin, declined comment Tuesday. He said Daly was expected to play next week in the PGA Championship, which he won in 1991. The July 28 indictment alleges the three were part of a larger conspiracy to buy and sell cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana, and paid for them with cash from previous drug sales. It lists 47 bank deposits just under $10,000 -- the limit for reporting federal cash transactions -- between 1998 and 2001. Alvis Miller was charged with nine counts, while Billie Miller faces two counts. All three listed the same home address in Collierville, Tenn.; calls there went unanswered Tuesday. It was the latest setback for John Daly, whose career took off when he won the PGA Championship at Crooked Stick with his booming drives and grip-it-and-rip-it style. He has been through alcohol rehabilitation twice, the second time after trashing his hotel room following a drinking binge at The Players Championship in 1997. He last won a tournament at the 2001 BMW International Open in Germany, his first victory in six years. Sherrie Daly is his fourth wife. They met during the St. Jude Classic in Memphis, Tenn., in 2001 and married seven weeks later.
Member: One of our esteemed
Location: collegues family problems
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 1:51:59 PM
OXFORD, Miss. -- John Daly faces more turmoil off the course, although this time it's not his own. His wife and two others are charged in a federal indictment alleging they were involved in a drug ring and an illegal gambling operation. Sherrie Miller Daly, who married the two-time major champion in 2001, appeared in court Monday in Oxford along with her father, Alvis Miller, 60; and Billie Miller, 57, whose relationship to the others wasn't clear. Daly, who recently gave birth to the couple's first child, faces up to 20 years in prison on each of the two counts in the indictment. Prosecutors said the golfer didn't know about his wife's alleged drug activities, which took place between 1996 and 2002. John Daly's agent, Bud Martin, declined comment Tuesday. He said Daly was expected to play next week in the PGA Championship, which he won in 1991. The July 28 indictment alleges the three were part of a larger conspiracy to buy and sell cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana, and paid for them with cash from previous drug sales. It lists 47 bank deposits just under $10,000 -- the limit for reporting federal cash transactions -- between 1998 and 2001. Alvis Miller was charged with nine counts, while Billie Miller faces two counts. All three listed the same home address in Collierville, Tenn.; calls there went unanswered Tuesday. It was the latest setback for John Daly, whose career took off when he won the PGA Championship at Crooked Stick with his booming drives and grip-it-and-rip-it style. He has been through alcohol rehabilitation twice, the second time after trashing his hotel room following a drinking binge at The Players Championship in 1997. He last won a tournament at the 2001 BMW International Open in Germany, his first victory in six years. Sherrie Daly is his fourth wife. They met during the St. Jude Classic in Memphis, Tenn., in 2001 and married seven weeks later.
Member: PaulineC
Location: ont. canada
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 6:16:40 PM
I'm an alcoholic my name is P auline, I resolved when I quit drinking that I would stay no matter what happened in my family life,I knew I could not continue drinking if I wanted to live. I have since worked on the steps and continue to do so I have a new family (the members of AA) i've done my amends to the best of my ability,time will take care of the rest.my children and my ex my never come around and forgive me but I cannot let that interfere with my sobriety I have to put that in my higher power's hands today I am grateful to be sober thank you for listening
Member: Joy B.
Location: Az
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 6:28:57 PM
I am a newcomer of 5 days. This is my 3rd time at getting sober. I am reading topic as family trust, and what not. I just want to say that I am very blessed that my family is still willing to care about me and love me still in spite of my self destructive behavior. I am again without my 2 kids and will be starting over again with the job and all. All I know is that today I love myself, my family and my children too much to not try again. I have a big book and open it everyday...something I want to do..I talk to my higher power more now, which is something I choose to do. I will check out the newcomer page also, but just wanted to add to this topic..
Member: Connie S.
Location: Nashville, TN
Date: 8/6/2003
Time: 7:25:00 PM
Hi Ya'll,I'm Connie and I'm an alcoholic. Grateful to be alive, clean and sober only by the grace of God. (Bill in Arizona), alapet, what a concept! That's a first, for me it hit home. When I made my amends list, my pet was on that list. My husband, (whom I drank almost entirely out of my life) had to go out of town for a weekend and agaist his better judgement and with begging from me left our precious dog with me for the weekend. We all know what happend, I got drunk, so drunk I couldn't even take care of a dog! It helps to bring your drunk ass home to do such things! My daughter (who was the mom in reality in those days) took our pet to my Mother to take care of. So yes, I felt the need to include my pet on my amends. I have done that and am living the principles of AA and and now we have a great relationship! Not to mention the other beloved members of my family. This is only possible because I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity, sought Him, and became willing to do the work. I thank AA for God and I thank God for AA. Love you all.
Member: Shauna W
Location: Three Rivers, Gascoyne, WAust
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 1:21:02 AM
Hi, I'm Shauna and an alcoholic. Great sharing by everyone. I like to read ALL comments, although some teach me what I don't wish to be like, some do, but both are equally important for me to think about. Early in my sobriety, my parents, brother and sisters were very unsure about me. I was a bit of a threat with this "cult" they imagined I was a part of. Also, they were all drinking and kept telling me that after 6 months in AA, I would "be alright" and drink again with them all!!! ( I actually hung on that and wanted to believe it!) Anyway, after a few rocky years when my amends went down like a lead balloon and they all thought I had gone queer, my parents decided to visit me. (I live interstate, 3000km away). The first visit was strange, a bit awkward but nice, and now after three more visits, they love to contact me as they comment on how refreshing it is to be with me now. They like my honesty, my ability to laugh at myself and be positive on a daily basis. I have done a lot of soul searching and by the grace of God, will continue to. The "attraction, not promotion" seems to be working, and not just with my family, but many other people I am in contact with. All this is a bonus for me, but not the be all and end all. Sobriety for me is still the reason for me asking God to care for me every 24hours. All else is a bonus, but wow, there have been soo many over the years, reunited family being but one, a wonderful one though. Thanks for the sharing, Shauna
Member: Salty Sam
Location: USA
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 7:36:34 AM
Dear Idiot Go to Michigan and see Dr.Jack...He can be of a great help to you.
Member: Avid
Location: Lurkerette
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 10:17:34 AM
i third the motion that salty sam is a bonafide idiot of all idiots
Member: DEL H
Location: ENGLAND
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 1:54:22 PM
IM DEL,AND I MAY BE AN ALCHOHOLIC,THIS IS REAL CREEPY,I DO ONE OR TWO BOTS OF PORT,EVERY DAY,IT WAS O.K. UP UNTILL 2 YEARS AGO,THEN I FEEL NUMB,MOSTLY IN MY HANDS,SOMETIMES MY FACE AND THE TOP OF MY HEAD.IS IT BOOZE OR MY 100 CIGS A DAY?I AM NOW GOING OUT TO THE SUPERMART FOR MORE BOOZE,I CANT STOP MY DRINKING AND I THINK ITS NOW TAKEING ME OVER,CAN ANYONE HELP ME,CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO.I FEEL STUPID SAYING THIS,BUT I NOW NEED YOUR HELP,OR I AM DEAD IN 1 OR 2 YEARS.CAN ANY ONE GET BACK TO ME REAL FAST?
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 2:19:04 PM
((Del)) If you want to quit drinking, please don't try it on your own. It can be exceedingly dangerous for a daily drinker. There are treatment centers that help - detoxes - where they will assist you getting off the booze. Good luck. I would have to say that numbness isn't a good sign... but I'm no doctor. Please get checked out.
Member: siobhan c.
Location: washington
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 3:23:39 PM
siobhan, here. alcoholic and co-dependent. i grew up with an alcoholic father, and brother. so when i started drinking it was in the family tradition. i was lucky enough to be there when my father sought treatment and i learned what an alcoholic was, for the first time. i have been blessed with a supportive, unconditionally loving family. the only thing i have to contribute today is this: whatever your family situation is, you cannot do or be good at it if you are still drinking/using. FIRST you have to clean/sober up. THEN work on the things that are broken. my sobriety has to come first, otherwise, i'll never be a good sister,daughter, wife, mother, or friend. thanks for letting me share.
Member: Solvie A
Location:
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 4:29:22 PM
Del H, you are suffering from vitamin B12 deficiency. Alcohol can produce that in a person and it causes the symptoms you are describing (numbness, etc.). You need to get medical help right away!! Also, you would do really well to check into a detox center as Kim D was suggesting. You cannot stop drinking by yourself, but you have a medical emergency and you REALLY need to stop. Good luck and god bless.
Member: Aaron H
Location: Toronto On.
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 4:29:32 PM
Hey just new to A.A. thought I would check out an online meeting. I am glad I can talk to some one online. Just 67 days clean and not feeling to bad. I just got out of treatment. 40 days in the best treatment place in Canada. If anyone would like to reply or chat on msn e-mail me aaronjasonh@hotmail.com Thanks Aaron H
Member: Bill W.
Location: HELL
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 9:05:43 PM
You are only an ALCOHOLIC if you choose to be one.Get over it before life passes you by.
Member: Bill W.
Location: HELL
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 9:06:22 PM
You are only an ALCOHOLIC if you choose to be one.Get over it before life passes you by.
Member: Bill W.
Location: HELL
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 9:06:46 PM
You are only an ALCOHOLIC if you choose to be one.Get over it before life passes you by.
Member: Stump
Location: Texas
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 9:55:54 PM
Del H from England: Bless you my brother. In answer to your question, I would agree with the other posters that you have problems. Daily drinking coupled with your assertion that you can't stop definitely indicates that you have a problem, as does your statement that you smoke 100 cigarettes per day. It sounds like your body is rejecting the constant bombardment with deadly drugs (alcohol and nicotine). As with the others, I believe that you need help immediately. But, please don't limit yourself to just your alcohol problem. By your comments, you also have a serious addiction with nicotine. You will need to address both problems at once, since they are both equally deadly (although statistically, tobacco kills many more than alcohol). But, please seek out some type of assistance as soon as possible. You are one of God's children and He wants you to live. And He wants you to live happily and drug free. My prayers are with you, my English brother. God Bless You.
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 8/7/2003
Time: 11:52:46 PM
Let it go for 2003...by T. D. Jakes There are people who can walk away from you. And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk. I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone. When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left. The bible said that, they came out from us that it might be made manifest that they were not for us. For had they been of us, no doubt they would have continued with us. [1 John 2:19] People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are not joined to you, you can't make them stay. Let them go. And it doesn't mean that they are a bad person it just means that their part in the story is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead. You've got to know when it's dead. You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got the gift of good-bye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in good-bye. It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much sweat I don't need it. Stop begging people to stay. Let them go!! If you are holding on to something that doesn't belong to you and was never intended for your life, then you need to ... LET IT GO!!! If you are holding on to past hurts and pains ... LET IT GO!!!
Member: Patrick A
Location: Seattle
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 12:02:05 AM
Greatful recovering juicer that I am,I would like to tell you that after 24+ years out and 25 yrs of marriage I have 4+ months clean and sober. My family is coming around and life is getting better . I just have to remember that God doesn't always answer my prayers the way I would like them to be answered. Stay sober today.
Member: Anonymous
Location:
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 12:02:22 AM
If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your worth...LET IT GO!!! If someone has angered you ... LET IT GO!!! If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge ... LET IT GO!!! If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction ... LET IT GO!!! If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or talents ... LET IT GO!!! If you have a bad attitude...LET IT GO!!! If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better... LET IT GO!!! If you're stuck in the past and God is trying to take you to a new level in Him... LET IT GO!!! If you are struggling with the healing of a broken relationship.... LET IT GO!!! If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help themselves; LET IT GO!!! If you're feeling depressed and stressed ... LET IT GO!!! If there is a particular situation that you are so used to handling yourself and God is saying "take your hands off of it," then you need to... LET IT GO!!! Let the past be the past. Forget the former things. GOD is doing a new thing for 2003!!! LET IT GO!!! Get Right or Get Left ... think about it, and then LET IT GO!!! "Each one, teaches one"
Member: Bikerbabe
Location: In the land of hellishelping
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 12:38:31 AM
If your an alcoholic and you wish to regain control and ditch aa... then regain control and LET AA GO!! If you dont' want to be in na then LET IT GO!! wheee.... if you 'can't take responsibility for your actions.. then 'take responsibility for your actions and LET IT GO!! .. everything in moderation.. food ,, legal drugs...illegal drugs... alcohol... sex.. bible thumping... porn....cig's.... you name it... if you use anything too much it might kill ya...and don't moderate too much cause that's not good for ya either.. LET IT GO!!! ....if your happy and everything has become simple and you love life... then LET IT RIP!!!.... whoo hoo eee.....is great isn it?...sober thought.. sober action... sober speach?.. opps.. not gonna get too many to agree with me on the last one.. but i promise ya all,, it wont' hurt a bit. Bikerbabe' loves alike's....
Member: Bikerbabe to the dude who plans to hoot.
Location:
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 12:41:10 AM
Ps.. if your a bit stoned' cause ya had a little hootie... you might still be capaple of sober thought. sober action, and sober speach, on the other hand... if your stoned out a your gord.. you might be missin the whole point. kiss kiss hug hug....
Member: Kathy K.
Location: Northeast
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 5:35:36 AM
Thanks so much for reminding me to LET IT GO!!! Just what I needed to hear - maybe I can get to bed earlier tonight! God bless---
Member: LYNDA
Location: DEVON UK
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 8:21:58 AM
HELLO FAMILY..WOW WHAT A MIXTURE..WELCOME TO NEW PEOPLE..THANKS TO ALL FOR THEIR SHARES..ITS BEEN A WHILE SINCE IVE BEEN ON LINE..SORRY IM NOT VERY GOOD AT TYPING JUST ABOUT GET THROUGH WITH SPELLING HEY IM GRATEFUL THIS ALKI/ADDICT IS CLEAN AND (SERENE )MOST DAYS..THANKS TO THIS SIMPLE PROGRAM MY LIFE HAS GOT BETTER AND BETTER..EXPENSIVE MEMBERSHIP THOUGH..PAIN HEARTACHE DESPAIR SADNESS LONELINESS SELF DISCUST SELF NEGLECT DISHONESTY ABUSE VIOLANCE CRIME ETC ETC..TOOK ME A WHILE TO REALIZE ITS A SIMPLE PROGRAM HAD TO COMPLICATE EVERYTHING FIRST TIL I HAD ENOUGH PAIN TO SURRENDER AND DO WHAT WAS SUGGESTED..HEY I NOW HAVE HONESTY RESPECT SELF LOVE HOPE JOY NOT LONELY ANYMORE..MY FAMILY RESPECT AND LOVE ME NOW..WOW..THATS JUST A FEW THINGS..IVE FOUND MY HP I HAD TO PUT IN EFFORT LET GO OF SOME DISTRUCTIVE PEOPLE PLACES AND THINGS TO GIVE MYSELF A BREAK..IM ABLE TO LEARN AGAIN..LOVE AND PERSISTENCE ..CONQUERS ALL..NEVER GIVE UP..GOTTA FEELING A FEW MEMBERS HAVE DYSLEXIA..SO PLEASE DONT RIDICULE THEM..HUGS ALL ROUND
Member: HARE TODAY
Location: GONE TOMORROW
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 11:43:17 AM
MARK NY - THIS SITE WAS A LOT NICER WHEN YOU WERE GONE...
Member: Fred
Location: The land of miracles
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 1:14:04 PM
I need to know if i am "allowed" to post here or not. i used to be an alcoholic. i have alot of experience strength and hope. i no longer have a drinking problem as i do drink, i posted as miracle land' and someone has taken offence and asked me to basically get lost' as apparently it is inappropriate for me to post here. like i said, i went through all the usuall when sobering up, i worked hard and i know what it is to be an alcoholic. i am one of those rare and perhaps to some 'frightened' individuals' a controversial' as i drink now, but im never drunk, i don't like to go beyond maybe 2 drinks, as it grosses me out. in fact i don't like to overdo anything really , for the most part i am a balanced person, who takes good care of himself, and i have an incredible life, and all kinds of experience strength and hope to share about aa the steps and so forth. So if there is someone out there with some insight maybe they will comment for me on whether it is right or wrong for me to post here. as i want to have honesty in all things that i do as best i can. thanx
Member: RICHARD M
Location: sarasota, fl
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 1:17:02 PM
hello, my name is richard m.....i am an alcoholic..my sobriety date.is ,,,,,,,,,,,dec ........28....1985........only by the grace of god........ i like the topic posted first..........when we come to AA we really are " asking " for help...!!!!!!!!!!! SO WE THEN LEARN THE " PRIMARY PURPOSE".........OF AA...........then our sobriety becomes directly proportional to our humble, willingness to let go and let "god".... OF COURSE AA ISN'T GOD .WE HAVE NO CHURCH OR PASTORS...ETC....etc...............however we do have a plan of action ...if i am willing to follow it..........Please remember that our goal is very simple.........." NO ALCOHOL IN THE MOUTH"................love and tolerance is our code in aa.................we pray that each who are asking for help .will understand what kind of help we can give and what our goal is..............love , peace and happinesss to all...
Member: Kerry C
Location: TX(kerryctx@hotmail.com)
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 2:28:43 PM
Fred it would seem to me that you have no desire to not drink. AA membership only has one requirement, a desire to stop drinking. I am not sure about the specifics here on this site but it is an AA based forum. Maybe you should find a forum dedicated to those who have been cured of alcoholism and can drink again. You would probably fit in there better. Let me know if you find one...Until then you might want to go over to Early Sobriety and look at Jane C. experiences. She too had been sober/AA for a long time and then was able for a short time to drink socially also. But alcoholism is cunning, baffleing, and powerful. It wasn't long before she and many others I have spoken to and met, were right back to the place they were when they originally quit drinking years before. Whatever your course, I pray only the best for you.
Member: Fred
Location: THE LAND OF MIRACLES
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 4:52:55 PM
So Kerry)) you want me to 'see Jane. ha ha. no thanx honey. and although i was once one of 'them' why would i want to read on about examples of people who can't get a grip on a good life without messing themselves up again. not interested sweetheart. sorry. i have been well balanced, well adjusted, and happy for long enough now to realize i am no longer abusing alcohol socially and irresponsibly. i don't 'need to 'now start trying to ""reprogram myself to become sick again and to start behaving like Jane. i wonder, do you even see how sick that is too suggest i do something as insane as that?. have you no mind left at all honey? have you really been that brain-washed in aa to actually try to get someone else back to being incapable of being healthy. That's very 'Scary 'Kerry ha ha... oh well i could be wrong, but i could care less if i am, not trying to hurt you, just recognizing my dear. And yes i am looking for a site more suitable for me. if i find one would you really like to know where it is? ((i'll bet you do.)) i realize that you can't stand to hear anything contrary to what your shut out narrow mind wants to hear, but please, spare me the effort and suggestions that i reprogram myself to become sick again... sheeeshhhh!
Member: Bikerbabe
Location: To Fred
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 5:06:36 PM
YES IT IS ABSOLUTELY UNBEARABLE FRED. YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING THAT WILL THREATEN OR CHALLENGE ANYONES RIGHT TO STAY IN THE BOX. GOD FORBID. IT CREATES FEAR ALL OVER THE PLACE DOESN'T IT FRED. THEY TELL YOU TO GET LOST AGAIN BUDDY? WELL I FOR ONE AM NOT AN AGNOSTIC and here's the dictionary description for AGNOSTIC... <<one who holds that we know nothing outside of the material world.. god this place is kind of like that if you ask me. STICK TO THE TOPIC! STICK TO THE BIG BOOK! STICK TO WHAT YOU WERE TOLD! STICK TO IT BOYS! STICK TO IT! like all this fear. no wonder people can't find god... they won't get out of the F@#KN box... i think that catholics, jehova witnesses, and aa or any other "one road for all theory" is a form of agnostisism... at its best. and i could care less what any one else choses, because i know i got it all. great life, all of it. I would say it is sad that you can't be different in this joint, but im not sad about it because i don't give a rat's fat ass... ha ha.. i love that one. "Bikerbabe out"
Member: Kerry C
Location: TX
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 5:21:05 PM
Feel better Fred thought you wanted to go off on someone :)
Member: Kerry C
Location: TX
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 5:24:20 PM
Oh and Fred I am male so quit calling me sweetheart, dear, etc...lol
Member: First name and Last initial
Location: Savannah, GA
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 9:57:37 PM
Hello, I was wondering if this AA thing really works.
Member: Kelly
Location: Kansas
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 10:55:32 PM
Kerry C---You're an idiot!!!!! Let the man say what he wants to, who are you to say what is and is not acceptable? Shut the F__k up!
Member: Kerry C
Location: TX
Date: 8/8/2003
Time: 11:51:52 PM
Hey Kelly, You might try reading my post again I didn't tell Fred what he could say or not say. I was just curious why he was posting here if he has no desire to stop drinking. I mean why waste your time posting at a place where most people have the desire to stop drinking. It is clearly labled AA Meetings for the WWW and AA clearly doesn't suggest its' memebers keep drinking. I suspect Fred has other motives. If he wants to drink that is his business. But suggesting alcoholics can drink normally could kill someone out there.
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 12:58:35 AM
This reminds me of a lot of meetings I go to, what in the world was the topic. I could not read the whole thing, it sounded ripe for Jerry Springer or Ricki Lake and the worse part about it, everyone buys into this mental ping pong. There might be a suffering alcoholic on this site who really needs and is seeking help.
Member: babe to Kerry
Location: wondering what he looks like... cant help it.. just cant'..he haw.
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 1:02:35 AM
Kerry... you know who you are.. (the suspectful type guy eh?))are you paranoid as well then? pray tell me, what are these sinister' and deviant motives of which you speak?... maybe fred is trying whole heartedly to 'kill all newcomers' is that it?.. or maybe he's trying to brainwash others contrary to what you would brain-wash them with?.. and you feel threatened?.. good lord man!... check your head. I personally do not entertain those kind of thoughts about you or anyone else here, why should i?... what would be the point of that? lol... (if the fact that freddy' was once an alcoholic and "had to stay completely abstinent" for years has no relevancy here, well then your the man, your the boss buddy, it must be so. goodbye then fred.... i scincerely hope you are on the floor laughing your ass off pal.. lol back to you. Kerry.. peace and aligator skin to you.
Member: Manny (Calif)
Location: traveling through S. Africa
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 4:55:53 AM
I am glad you had the courage to set out your issues Solvie, it is part of the 8th step and as you can see first, the person that we need to forgive is ourselves; and second for recognizing our shortcomings and offenses and reconciling with the Lord,ourselves, and our families. We have been wrapped up in a disease of denial and not caring. Thank God for AA and the fellowship! We are indeed now joyous and free.
Member: Solvie A.
Location: Suffolk County
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 8:21:26 AM
Solvie A. here, I'm an alcoholic. I am the one who started the week's topic. Yes, Manny, it is the eighth step and it's really interesting because in my home group that I go to every morning at 6:15 am (!!yes it's beautiful this time of morning) all week we've been reading daily reflections about the eighth step. It's amazing how our H.P. gives us what we need, when we need it!!! Since I'm new to AA I'm not totally familiar with all the steps, but I have on my own come to a place where I am doing lots of these things in my life. My H.P. has been with me all along... So, this morning we read a wonderful reflection about the eighth step. It went into MORE depth and stressed the word "as". That we should forgive others "as" they or god forgives us. It also said that we should forgive EVERYONE, not pick and choose. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. That is where true peace lies. Even though I am so new to AA, from this week of reflection and concentrating on this issue for myself I have found a lot of peace. Dramatically things are already changing so much in my family. I an very thankful. I also want to thank everyone who has contributed their thoughts and insights. God bless to all. Thanks for sharing.
Member: Sugar Sam
Location: Get your ass back in line Salty and wait for your turn to get your miracle
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 8:48:05 AM
Salty Sam,you are so full of shit,you are pathetic with your views of what order the steps are practiced and how people should recover.The first step was written because it was thought of first and so on and so on.People like you make me think about taking 12 steps towards the door.
Member: Kerry C
Location: TX (kerryctx@hotmail.com)
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 9:03:00 AM
Biker Babe, Keep guessing you haven't guessed it yet...well enough bandwidth wasted on this subject. Email me BikerBabe if you really want to know.
Member: Bill L
Location: Portland Oregon
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:10:34 AM
Fred, I was cured once. After twelve years of sobriety I concluded I wasn't an alcoholic. Initially I drank socially but ultimately I was to experience three years of living hell. The disease had progressed while I was sober. Thanks to my Higher Power and AA I now have eighteen years sober. Fred maybe you aren't an alcoholic and maybe you never have been one. Your the only one that knows the answer. AS far as I know the only cured Alcoholics are the dead ones. Good luck on your journey. As far as I'm concerned you are always welcome at an AA meeting.
Member: cb
Location: Lorain, ohio,U.S.A.
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:54:07 AM
HELLOW TODAY I SAY ALL ON THE CUP KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID , FIRST THINGS 1# , LET GO LET GOD, TURN IT OVER ,SOBER& CRAZY, HUNGERY ANGERY LONELY TIRED,LIVE& LET LIVE ,HAPPY JOYOUS&FREE, EASY DOES IT BUT DOIT! ONE DAY AT A TIME IF IT WORKS- Don't fix IT! STICK WITH THE WINNERS! TODAY me in my SIDE TO KEEP Smiling and listen to keep my self out of rut .POSTIVE TO KNOW WRONG FROM WRIGHT IN MY HP HAVE GREAT AND SUPPER DAY ALL SEE YOU LATER PEOPLE AND JUST TO SAY keep it simple
Member: Connie S.
Location: Nashville
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:54:15 AM
Well said Bill. When anyone, anywhere reaches out for the helping hand of AA, I am to be there, and for that I am responsible.
Member: cb
Location: Lorain, ohio,U.S.A.
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:57:40 AM
HELLOW TODAY I SAY ALL ON THE CUP KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID , FIRST THINGS 1# , LET GO LET GOD, TURN IT OVER ,SOBER& CRAZY, HUNGERY ANGERY LONELY TIRED,LIVE& LET LIVE ,HAPPY JOYOUS&FREE, EASY DOES IT BUT DOIT! ONE DAY AT A TIME IF IT WORKS- Don't fix IT! STICK WITH THE WINNERS! TODAY me in my SIDE TO KEEP Smiling and listen to keep my self out of rut .POSTIVE TO KNOW WRONG FROM WRIGHT IN MY HP HAVE GREAT AND SUPPER DAY ALL SEE YOU LATER PEOPLE AND JUST TO SAY keep it simple
Member: cb
Location: Lorain, ohio,U.S.A.
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:57:40 AM
HELLOW TODAY I SAY ALL ON THE CUP KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID , FIRST THINGS 1# , LET GO LET GOD, TURN IT OVER ,SOBER& CRAZY, HUNGERY ANGERY LONELY TIRED,LIVE& LET LIVE ,HAPPY JOYOUS&FREE, EASY DOES IT BUT DOIT! ONE DAY AT A TIME IF IT WORKS- Don't fix IT! STICK WITH THE WINNERS! TODAY me in my SIDE TO KEEP Smiling and listen to keep my self out of rut .POSTIVE TO KNOW WRONG FROM WRIGHT IN MY HP HAVE GREAT AND SUPPER DAY ALL SEE YOU LATER PEOPLE AND JUST TO SAY keep it simple
Member: cb
Location: Lorain, ohio,U.S.A.
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 10:57:41 AM
HELLOW TODAY I SAY ALL ON THE CUP KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID , FIRST THINGS 1# , LET GO LET GOD, TURN IT OVER ,SOBER& CRAZY, HUNGERY ANGERY LONELY TIRED,LIVE& LET LIVE ,HAPPY JOYOUS&FREE, EASY DOES IT BUT DOIT! ONE DAY AT A TIME IF IT WORKS- Don't fix IT! STICK WITH THE WINNERS! TODAY me in my SIDE TO KEEP Smiling and listen to keep my self out of rut .POSTIVE TO KNOW WRONG FROM WRIGHT IN MY HP HAVE GREAT AND SUPPER DAY ALL SEE YOU LATER PEOPLE AND JUST TO SAY keep it simple
Member: THOMAS A.
Location: SPOKANE, WA
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 11:04:29 AM
ITS BEEN A GREAT WEEK AT WORK JUST KEEPING MY FOCUS ON WHATS IMPORTANT, ME AND NO DRINKING, WORK AND MY FAMILY #1 AND NEVER TO CHANGE EVER AGAIN
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 11:43:46 AM
For every story like Bill's above and Jane's on the early sobriety page, there are 100 that not only stayed sober, but had/have happy, full lives! Believe what you want--that's the truth--factually speaking!
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 11:45:48 AM
For every story like Bill's above and Jane's on the early sobriety page, there are 100 that not only stayed sober, but had/have happy, full lives! Believe what you want--that's the truth--factually speaking! Very nicely said though Bill--kindness-great, unfortunately rare in AA.
Member: showme
Location: mo
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 1:09:36 PM
johnson, where may these "facts" be found in print?
Member: Connie S.
Location: Nashville, TN
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 1:17:51 PM
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed. We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals usually brief were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better. From the BB - just a reminder for myself, that I am a real alcoholic and will never be able to safely drink again. Have a super, sober day everyone!
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 6:28:19 PM
why the quotes from a book we dont all believe in? the big book is load of crapola to alot of us you know.
Member: Billy J.
Location: Scotland
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 7:54:17 PM
the writing of the big book and its distribution was one of the greatest miracles of the 20 th century. it certainly was a factor in saving my life. before A.A. people like me,an alcoholic, had little or no chance of ever living happy and contented. the B.B. has given me the answer to what I suffered from an allergy and a mental obsession plus a solution , a spiritual programme of recovery. thank God for A.A. Have a sober day. keep it simple.
Member:
Location:
Date: 8/9/2003
Time: 11:19:08 PM
billj your wrong of corse lots of peoples got sober before aa was round its not true to say they didnt mate
Member: Alcoholic
Location: Anonymous
Date: 8/10/2003
Time: 12:48:24 AM
How come this site is loosing its primary purpose? Whats with all this bickering between one another? I wonder how many newcomers come here & start to read the post`s & are turned off by all this petty chat? Are these issues that important the we need to loose our focus? I see the same thing happening in meetings all over my area, and of course these meetings fold or slowly die & the newcomer eather goes elsewhere or just stays drunk. Has AA lost its sole purpose of helping one another? Is AA sure to die like the un-aided alcoholic that wonders the street with no purpose or direction in life? No reason to live, no reason to die? God help us! I`m sure that these words will strike a cord with most who read this & will probably just cause more un-wanted posts with opinions that are not on the topic so have at it, i will seek what i need at another site that is dedicated to helping the alcoholic who still suffers.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 8/10/2003
Time: 4:00:34 AM
Hi, I'm Kelly and I'm a miracle Today by the Grace of AA and a power greater than myself. Isn't that all that really matters...?