Member: Pam B.
Location: oregon coast
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 00:14:36

Comments

Pam B. alcoholic, I would like to see some discussion on amends, maybe. While I am more than willing and ready, and while I really don't have fear of the actual f2f amends making, I can't help but wonder if I'm setting myself up with expectations. And that takes me out of today....and thats not goooooood. It is pretty amazing to me though the way the steps are just the way they should be and its like a natural order, one just naturally leads you to the next. Anyway, fortify me, guys and gals, I couldn't do any of this without the esh shared at f2f and what I read here and other on-line groups,and my sponsor and the slogans and HP and....and ....and... The lonliness I felt when I came into this program is definetely gone. I am truly grateful. Thanks.


Member: Mike C.
Location: Ohio
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 00:36:28

Comments

Mike C., alcoholic, thanks for opening the discussion Pam. To me, step eight says, become willing to make amends, in some cases this is a simple apology, in others it might require paying for property damages, repaying debts, etc. I think the apologies should be done as opportunities arise, but others may take time. I think as long as I am willing to make the amends I need not rush, but also must not delay unnecessarily, lest I procrastinate. Thanks


Member: Don J
Location: Black Hills of SD
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 08:02:32

Comments

Good morning, I am Don, Alcoholic. Thanks for the topic Pam. I woke up early this morning and was thinking that amends would be a good topic for this week. I suggest that if you have amends to make that theyv be taken care of a soon as the opportunity presents it self because one never knows when it will be to late. I will say my final goodby to the one that has shred the last 33 years and 16 days with me tommorow morning at 10 am. One minute she was here laughing and enjoying life and the next minute she was gone. God has called her home. It is because of this program of alcholics anonymous that I feel comfortable in saying that I have made the amends to her for the pain I have caused her in the past. I have only been sober for 3 yrs and 9 mo but thank God they have been the best years of our life together. So if you haven't told your spouse that you love them or given them a hug yet today or anyone else for that matter get upo from your computer right now and go do it for it could be to late I know because I have been there. Thanks for letting me sdhare this morning and may God bless each and every one of you. Thanks for listening.


Member: Jane
Location: Ma.
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 10:02:10

Comments

Don, so very sorry for your loss, but grateful for your heartfelt message on amends. Thanks, Pam for a great topic.

Working with my sponsor and my HP who helps insure " a careful sense of timing" made a great difference in the "success" of Steps 8&9. The sponsor guides us thru previous steps--which lay the foundation for courage and self knowledge, especially Step 3. Lots of prayer too. God did a bit of prompting beforehand.

Amends to my children were most helpful. Only years later did I learn that my son was High that day that freed my heart (Step 9 and a later mini step 4 on my "parenting")!

Amends aren't a singular event for me, but a change of attitude and actions for a lifetime, if HP wants me in someone's life. "Except when to do so would injure them or others" most important to discern. Sponsor and Step 3 again.

Hope this helps. It changed my life. Guilt just about killed me before sobriety. I also discovered that I did plenty of things well--not a complete flop as a mom. Love to all, Jane


Member: Catherine N.
Location: Ann Arbor
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 10:25:58

Comments

Hi everyone, I'm Catherine and I'm an alcoholic. Thanks for the great topic. For me, making amends doesn't always have to be saying I'm sorry. It means to set it right and I do that with my behavior. Sure, I have told the people I hurt I was sorry, but I have also changed the way I behave towards them. I try to make my amends by living life well. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Pete B.
Location: sw MI
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 11:16:38

Comments

Hi everyone, I'm Pete ...an alcoholic !!

Thanks for the subject Pam..... I hac a horrible time coming to grips with amends. But I resolved that I wasn't going to make them jsut to get it over with. I , with the help of the AA comunity, first worked on my spirituality......I had to say sorry from the heart ...and mean it. I had manicured 30 yrs, of BS ...so it wasn't going to be an overnight thing. It took me almost a year to be confortable with God and myself in making amends.

Now the second leg is LIVING those amends. And that's why it's so improtant to stay close to AA .....meetings, meetings, and more meetings for me to keep living my amends.

Thanks again ....super topic......Pete


Member: Michelle
Location: CO
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 12:34:04

Comments

Michelle alcoholic, When drinking I dismissed my drinking personality as "crazy" and never felt the need to apologize for my actions when drunk because it would seem obvious to everyone that I was out of my mind. This was my excuse for not taking responsibility for my selfish, self-centered, self-seeking character. Now I have found it necessary to go back and make amends to clear the wreckage, and my conscience by accepting responsibility for my actions and words over the years. In some cases f2f amends were effective, sometimes a letter of apology mailed to the victim with a specific note to "not feel the need to respond please" when there is nothing left to be said except "I apologize" and in some extreme cases, I have written an apology to benefit me, and not mailed it as to do so would only cause additional harm. I have found each situation needs careful attention to make sure that more good is done than harm, especially when dealing with people who are still active in addiction, as they see it as a way to open up an old can of worms, and that is not the purpose at all, instead to take accountability for my actions only and not to put anyone else under the spotlight. What a freeing experience it is not to have to carry around the guilt that disappears when amends is made.


Member: Vicki S.
Location: S Florida
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 12:55:03

Comments

I had burned so many bridges in my last few years of drinking and drugging, when I was finally ready to make my amends, I was unable to locate many key people on my 8th step list, and many that I could locate, didn't want to hear from me. For awhile I felt like I was being stopped from doing my 9th step. I thought that the step was about repairing relationships & that was somehow my job: to make everybody feel good again. I took me some time (and many sponsor suggested indirect amends) to learn that the 9th step is about changing my behavior. I leave the "repairing" results to my HP.

At this time, many of my past relationships remain in the wreckage pile. I pray for these people and remain open to the possibility that some day the chance to make amends will come. In the meantime, I make my amends by treating the people in my life now with respect and love.

I still feel the pain (and shame) of the damage I caused while out there. Since getting sober a couple years ago, I've made mistakes, but I've done nothing that I truly regret. I honor my life and my relationships with people today, and I honor this gift by working this program.

Thank you for this web site and for helping me stay sober today. Bless you all.


Member: Art N.
Location: Colorado
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 13:57:55

Comments

Hi, I'm Art and I'm an alcoholic. I have found that through the help of God and sponsors that the amends process is a two fold process. In my drinking days and even in my sober days I have hurt people, friends and loved ones by practicing my character defects. In step 8 (meaning that I have completed the first 7 steps) I find out what it is I am about to make amends for because this is an inventory of our personal relationships up close. I was told that because I had done so much harm, that the amends to be done was not my decision. The person or instituion that was involved, being the injured party, has a say in the amends to be made. So, I was to explain what I had done (as if that was a secret), aplogize, then shut up and listen to THEM to see what it was I needed to do to clear up the past with them. This has been tried and has worked for me in the past. This is also very scary because we don't know what they have in mind. But with God on my side today, I need not fear this for He will provide a way. Keep in mind that some of these people and institutions may be very angry and we have to be watchful for any vengeful type of demands that they may make. This is where a sponsor comes in handy. Please keep in mind that those of us who do sponsor are just human and I have had advise that while not harmful, God showed me to not be the answer. Always pray about these things and "more will be revealed." Good luck Pam.


Member: BJ McCall
Location: Miami, Fl.
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 19:50:32

Comments

I am Bj, an alcoholic. Life is good today and I am grateful. I owe a lot of this serenity to this and other sites I've shared on. Thanks to all who share and all who've prayed for me - this is great outlet in addition to my f2f meetings. Good topic and one I had to really work at, maybe a little too hard some say because to finish up the wreckage of my past I had to do a lot of traveling; there were just some I could not do by phone or letter and so I persevered and final finished them in my 7th year of sobriety. Now I began working the step right after Step 8 and did all the ones I could do right away, right away, then I continued on with the Steps; I just had to keep my list for few years until time and opportunity allowed me to finish up and it was a glorious finish after some heartbreak along the way, which we have to be prepared for, like finding some people who had passed on = and Don, I cannot begin to compare this with your experience. My lord, I just think you have a great and wonderful outlook about the loss of your mate. You are in my prayers, especially now when it is so new to you. I know you will be given the strength to overcome. LOL, BJ


Member: fayla g
Location: galena  ks
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 21:31:42

Comments

fayla,alcoholic ,Don i am very sorry for your great loss,as she now walks with god,and thankyou for showing me my problem are so small compaired to some of the others .IT shows me how very greatful i should be ,and amends should start today . love and prayers Fayla g


Member: Sanders W.
Location: Graceville, Fl.
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 22:11:06

Comments

Hello to all Y'all. I am very definately areal alcoholic and my name is Sanders. I like to always remind everyone that this is step 8 or nine and not step 1 1/2. So many of us want to " make amends" just as soon as we stop drinking and as the results of this many people are hurt including ourselves. I feel that this steps should be done WITH the help of a good step oriented sponser. I am sure there are people who have done it alone but I know I would never have made it in this area of my recovery process without a good sponser. I HIGHLY recommend it to all of you. As has already beeen pointed out, once I became willing to make the amends( not comply with the words), then the actual making of t it was less important. I do not believe it does ANYONE any good to mouth the words if we are not truely READY and willing to do so. When done with the true willingless and desire to make right the wrongs we have done, then and only then does the rewards of this step come to us. This step is just like all the preceeding ones in that the relief and rewards from taking this step are directly proportional to the amount of honesty and willingness that go into it. Love to all Y'all and God bless each of you. God loves you and so do I and there is nothing you can do about it. That is what is so amazing about grace. Sanders


Member: Melissa S
Location: Tennessee
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 22:23:21

Comments

I'm Melissa, an alcoholic. Good topic. Don I am very sorry about your loss. God gave you a gift for the times you did have with her sober. I didn't realize until I got sober how much a part my dad played in all my years I spent trying to find myself. When I went to treatment he wouldn't even speak to me. Now he calls me his "miracle child". i could never come out with the words 'I'm Sorry" to him, but I know my actions and just simply trying to do the right things are my amends to him. In some cases that is enough. I still have some amends to make to people that I may never get the opportunity to make, but being willing to do it is enough for me. God know how I feel! And sometimes there is no way to make an amends when you have no idea where in this country a certain person is. JUST BE WILLING!!! Love ya'll.


Member: Bob W
Location: NJ
Date: 05 Jul 1998
Time: 22:46:37

Comments

Bob, alcoholic. The best way I learned how to make amends to my wife was just to keep my mouth shut. Every time my alcoholic brain thought it had a profound answer my higher power was kind enough to remind that but for His grace I was lucky to still be married. Humility is the answer to amends. Also I try to keep my opinions at meetings short. I'm a student not a teacher.


Member: Suzanne H.
Location: Ontario Canada
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 00:50:43

Comments

Hi my name is Suzanne and I am an alcoholic.

Don, I am so sorry for your loss, thankyou for sharing with us.

Pam, this is a topic that has been on my mind alot recently.

I spent the weekend in my hometown. It was the first time back home since my moms funeral. Sunday, I sat alone at my mothers grave, wishing that my mom had lived to see me sober. She died 15 months before I quit drinking. I did not have the chance to make amends to her for the pain I caused her, for so very long. The visit at the cemetary left me feeling somewhat lost.

A few minutes ago, my 9 year old daughter gave me a card that she made for me..it reads...

"Mom, Congrats on your 1st year of sobriety. Remember, God's with you and he's telling you to live one day at a time. God loves you and watches down on you everyday. So does Nana. Nana watches down on you from her star. She's darn proud of you and so am I...Luv Always, Janet*"

I just sat and cried, and held my daughter and told her how I love her.

Thankyou for letting me share Suzanne


Member: Wendy S.
Location: Bethel
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 10:24:15

Comments

Pam, Good topic. The HP does put us where we need to be. Currently making arrangements to go over 8 with my sponsor. Not sure I've got everything, sure there is some I still don't remember, and I guess there is an amends in that for someone too. 2 yrs. in Sept. the fog is clearing...a little too well. I was always right, always in control[right] if I felt guilty before getting sober it was because "they" were making me feel that way, certainly not because I was doing anything wrong.

I have lots of amends to make. I can finally see what I did wrong, especially to the people I love. Today, I have a concious relationship with my HP and I know He will see me through, and show me the way.

Don, My deepest sympathy for your loss. By the grace of God, I know you'll get through it. Keep being grateful for the good times.

If anyone has any 8th step advice, I'm all ears [eyes], whatever. Today, I'm open to suggestions. I'm so glad I found this sight. I love my meetings and my home group, but when I'm home alone and maybe thinking too much, this is a good place to go, both to vent and to see what all of you have shared. Thanks all!


Member: Mark L.
Location: S.I.,N.Y
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 12:09:28

Comments

Hi Mark L. Alcoholic, Just wanted to share that I have 2 years one day at atime on July 5th.A moment about amends, I am trying to do things with my wife today. Instead of fighting and hurting her with my actions. This weekend I took her upstate to work on my relationship. to me this is a statr of making amends. Gotta go

Thanks for letting me share


Member: Pat O'B
Location: CO
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 13:00:21

Comments

Hi, Pat Alcoholic. I've seen my amends process alter over the years. In fact my idea of amends have sertainly changed. When I first came to AA and people talked about these amends, I'd start imagining all these possible scenarios. Before i took any of the steps, I had this matyr-like idea of amends--a punishment of sorts. While I was doing my fourth, I started to suspect that the amend process was not a punishment, but rather a tool to freedom and harmony, but I was still a little confused. And well I should be, because I was trying to figure something out without the knowledge or experience of steps 5,6,and 7. During step 5 when I started to feel like a equel member of the human race, did this idea of amends begin to change. I had one major problem. I went home and did, or thought that I di steps 6 and 7 that evening after the 5th. I was figuring that Pat was going to remove Pat's defects. I had even started to judge myself as to what was good and what was not. I said the words of the 7th step prayer, but did not grasp that I was giving myself to God, both the good and the bad. I forgot that I could never be God. I went out and tried to make these glorious amends. Well, I actually had pretty good luck with the bill collectors. And the people that were the closest to me were already seeing my amends in action, so my words wern't really always needed for them, yet vital to me. But many of the old severed relationships were a problem. I couldn't understand that burnt bridges are not rebuilt with a simple apology. Good God, I was a silvery tounged hustl'n drunk, saying I was sorry were words that I had used way too often. Atleast with out any sicerity or remorse. I was not concerned with changing my ways, just getting back into your good graces, so could scam some more. It wasn't until it was finally clear to me that these amends were for me to mend my behavior. they are for me to begin walking correctly. Yes, somrtimes relationships are restored, but that is none of my business, or my expectations. Sometimes they have impressed or moved people to change what is in their heart, but again this is where God uses me according to his needs. Remember, the guilt should have been taken care of in the 4th and 5th steps. the amend process will change me inspite of myself. But without the foundation of the 7th step I kept having trouble with the 9th, let alone the 8th. Yeah, I was more than willing to do the 9th to keep from drinking, but the sad part is that it took me around 1 1/2 years after the fifth t really have the 6th and 7th steps sink in to me. I began to see that my contol defects could be used by God, and sometimes that a insecurity would motivate me to do a good thing. But by not fighting myself,and beating myself up for not being perfect because my actions were not up to my immortal standards, started to really get toi know me and my motivations. So many times when I could comfortably see the childish needs that my shortcoming was trying to fill, I could laugh when realized that those needs are not able to be filled directly, but that they are the indirect result of love. Today, I don't go looking for things to fix in Pat. My God has given me some indicators that signal to me when something is amiss. I've got the "gut-meter" and migraines. I may have more signals that I am unaware of. Funny, when I seemed to have my head on right, many amends that just couldn't have been made before, the oppurtunities materialzed out of thin air. And believe me that God's timing is much better than mine. Again though, I really can not think that the amends are ever done. Not just for new stuff, that I do do very quickly, but for old buried stuf that pops up. I think Chuck C. said something like uncover, discover, discard. One other point that I see is that many of us want to hurry up and pray our resentments away, before we have analyzed them and seen the cause of 'em. I would rather rationialize a resentment away than to admit my vulnerability--I am human, I don't always get it right. But if I get really out of whack, my gut feels kinfa weird all the time and I can't tell which things are causing it. I call step nine the magic step because that is the one where I begin to change outwardly. Now truly in the spirit of the 3rd step can I have my difficulties taken away, so that the victory over them can bear witness to those that I wuold help of His power, love, and way of life. may I always allow God to build with me.


Member: Toni F.
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 16:09:27

Comments

Hey! I'm Toni...alcoholic. I'm at work stealing time from my company(AMENDS?!?) SO I'll keep this short. My experience with amends(and everything else in this program), is that i receive the honesty, openmindedness, and willingness to do what God wants in God's time. i hate that! i love that! i definitely love A & A and all of you! Thanks for letting me share and for sharing with me. XOXOXO


Member: Toni F.
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 16:09:40

Comments

Hey! I'm Toni...alcoholic. I'm at work stealing time from my company(AMENDS?!?) SO I'll keep this short. My experience with amends(and everything else in this program), is that i receive the honesty, openmindedness, and willingness to do what God wants in God's time. i hate that! i love that! i definitely love A & A and all of you! Thanks for letting me share and for sharing with me. XOXOXO


Member: Jim R.
Location: midwest
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 17:45:56

Comments

Hello, I'm Jim, an alchoholic.

Forgive me if I'm not up on all the abbreviations, I'm new to the net and the program, but what does f2f mean.


Member: Lynne D.
Location: Kansas City
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 18:30:50

Comments

I'm Lynne, alcoholic. Jim, f2f is a face-to-face meeting, more like a traditional AA meeting in an actual physical location with other people.


Member: Ross S
Location: Calgary Canada
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 18:40:23

Comments

My name is Ross and I am an alcoholic,Don my heart goes out to you,I will pray for you tonight. Currently I am working on my amends and I get lazy & sometimes scared of the consequences that may come about. But reading whaat everyone has to say has helped to get me started again. I wish everyone another good 24.


Member: Ted B.
Location: Montreal
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 19:15:27

Comments

Hi, I'm Ted and I'm an alcoholic. Through the fifth step I was able to start to put some distance between myself and the truckload of guilt I brought into the program, but I'm vacillating on some of my amends. Maybe that's because I'm still spinning my wheels on steps six and seven. The key for me no matter where I am in the program is to get to meetings and get active. Those are the catalysts to progress. Otherwise, I get all wrapped up in myself, and that's not a good place for me to be on a permanent basis. I'm a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. A good 24 to all


Member: Devon P.
Location: Alaska
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 21:19:15

Comments

hey everyone -- I'm Devon, alcoholic. And Ted, I can really relate. As soon as I saw that the topic was amends, I was like, Ugh. I still have all these really guilty feelings. Everytime I think about amends, I almost have a feeling of "I don't deserve to yet"; is that normal? Maybe I feel like I have to prove myself a little more or something, since I'm new in the program.(Hey, 5 months tomorrow, whadaya know.) I'm not even near step 8 yet. Heck, I still haven't gotten a sponsor since I've been back here for 2 months. Maybe tonight at my 5:30 meeting. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. I like reaching out like this, cyber-ly, since I seem to have such a dang hard time in person. I hope every- one has a great night and day tomorrow. Thanks for listening -- I feel like I'm rambling!


Member: Perry H
Location: Camden Maine
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 22:26:20

Comments

I understand that the word "amends" means to "make better". I must ask God to present me with the opportunity to "make better" the wrongs I have done in addiction and even more importantly ... in so called sobriety.

My Higher Power has provided me with such opportunities every time I have surrenderd to the situation and asked for the opportunity to make the much needed amend.

Today, life reflects back to me the attitude I carry about in my mind. If I bring Love to others, I receive Love back!

If I carry an attitude of anger or resentment, My life sucks and I am pissed off at everthing and everyone, and not long to the next drunk.

I love AA. I love being sober. I am grateful for this world-wide meeting. It circles the planet Earth. Far Out!


Member: Treasurer
Location: Staying Cyber
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 22:32:50

Comments

Wanna contribute to this meeting and AA?

Send a small contribution to:

Staying Cyber PO Box 392 Minisink Hills, PA 18341

We just "Passed the Hat"!


Member: Treasurer
Location: Staying Cyber
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 22:33:25

Comments

Wanna contribute to this meeting and AA?

Send a small contribution to:

Staying Cyber PO Box 392 Minisink Hills, PA 18341

We just "Passed the Hat"!


Member: Treasurer
Location: Staying Cyber
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 22:33:46

Comments

Wanna contribute to this meeting and AA?

Send a small contribution to:

Staying Cyber PO Box 392 Minisink Hills, PA 18341

We just "Passed the Hat"!


Member: Linda P
Location: CA, USA
Date: 06 Jul 1998
Time: 23:35:57

Comments

Linda, an alcoholic. Treasurer, mine is in the mail. No joke either, LOL.

Amends for me is specifically stating where I was wrong. That is different that an apology. Like others mentioned earlier, I also told people many times I am sorry. Those words were often hollow and lacked much significance to those I had hurt repeatedly. Living well, like someone else mentioned is another wonderful way of doing an amends. It is changing our behavior that is so important, especially for our loved ones.

When I made amends to my son, I told him it was "wrong" of me to have neglected him. That I had errored in judgment many times and did not take the right course of action that I should have taken. I had been grossly irresponsible as a parent, and sometimes even emotionally cruel by screaming instead of talking with him. Telling him I wanted to do better, I asked his cooperation by assisting me and letting me know when I am acting irrationally by rising my voice, or acting in a disrespectful manner. He was instructed to merely say, without rancor, "Mom, your doing it again." It worked. Because he never had to voice it to me. I never wanted him to have to remind me to be decent. LOL. Amends made to an X-husband, I was "wrong" to have placed my friends before my relationship with him. I did not have my priorities in right order and the marriage suffered as a direct result of my lack of attention in those matters. I was selfish, inconsiderate, and willful. My unwillingness to be there for him contributed to the downfall of our marriage. I took him off the hook of being entirely at fault for that failure. It was a relief to step down from being the martyr.

Thanks for letting me share. Have a nice week everyone. Those of you have not checked out our coffee pot, come on over to say hello.


Member: Mark L.
Location: S.I.,N.Y.
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 08:50:41

Comments

Hi, Mark L. Alcoholic ,I just needed to share that yesterday I went to the Cardiologist to have a check-up. I wasn't pleased with what I heard. I have an enlarged heart, leaky valves, irreg heartbeat(also very fast) Everything seems to pretty ok except for one of my valves which now they are trying another medication to see if it will help,if not they are going to have to replace one of the valves and I am extemely crazy about it. It bothers me that since I got sober I have ended up in the hospital 3 times. Heart,Asthma,Double Pneumonia. I am trying hard to understand this, but sometimes I just want to say"FUCK IT!". I keep getting bad news the longer I am sober I wonder? I get tired of people telling me "Oh but you would have probably died. Sometimes the pain is greater in sobriety than it was went I DRANK AND DRUGGED. I am not going to drink over this(YET) But I am still waiting to see it get better.

Thank for Letting me Share

Mark L.

I think I am going to go over to the coffee pot a little later.


Member: Jim R.
Location: Midwest
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 11:26:50

Comments

Hello out there in soberland, Jim the alcoholic here again, sober today through the grace of God and the fellowship.

Lynne D. thanks for clearing up what f2f meant... got another question... what does LOL mean?

Mark L., hope you work through these bad times... I can relate to not getting the results (happiness, serentity, normal life etc...) that I wanted when I started the program, or even now for that matter. My sponser told me if I wasn't happy sober, then go out there and start drinking again... nobody's stopping you. I've seen men and women in this program who were up against insurmountable odds and still stayed sober by choice. Seeing them face those problems just makes me stronger. I like what the 12 promises offer. When I walk with my HP, work the steps , get to meetings, and keep coming back, I do fine.

My father has had triple bypass, an aorta resection( worse than heart surgery), carotid artery resection, and a mass removed from his left lung, all within three years. It wasn't easy... but he got through it with God's help and the support from his family and friends. Today, He's healthier than ever, and has just celebrated his 73rd birthday. Modern science is amazing these days! - it's allowed us to enjoy my fathers company for years to come, God willing. My prayers are with you Mark. You already got over the hard part, admitting your were powerless over alchohol. Hang in there buddy!

Thanks for the topic of amends, Pam B. I agree with you on how seemless the steps are. It's ony natural to get your house in order, Steps 4,5,6,7,and 8, before you "work" step 9. and maintain with step 10. Steps 1,2,and 3 get us ready for the spiritual journey, 4 through 9 is the checklist or tuneup, and when we get to 10 through 12, we're rolling.

Jane from Ma. I like what you said about "amends aren't a singular event for you, It's about changing your attitudes and actions which change your life. Good Stuff! I enjoyed everyones comments and thanks for sharing. Love through the fellowship, Jim R.


Member: Linda M
Location: Canada
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 20:24:18

Comments

Linda M/alcoholic

I really liked what Sanders said. I had to be ready to change my behaviour and mean it before I made amends to anybody. This was especially true where my children were concerned. It took a long time for them to trust me and believe I had really changed and wouldn't "change back".

I Love AA and everybody here. Thanks for letting me share my 2 cents worth.

Linda M


Member: Ciaran S.
Location: New Jersey
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 21:46:31

Comments

I think the first person who amends should be made to is oneself. How quickly we forget where we've been and where we are now. I think other amends will present themselves (HP at work). Don't pick up today. Thanks and God bless. Ciaran


Member: Diane N,
Location: Hallandale fl.
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 21:47:34

Comments

when I first started on the ninth step I made direct ammends whereever possible to my direct family first,then my X husband about 6mos,later in person when I felt he knew I ment it. the part that was hardest for me was to ammend all the Patients I wronged while I was more concerned about when I could get my next drink. There was no way for me to make all the times I really didn't care about them right again. the best I could do was ask GOD for forgiveness and the strength to put my selfishness aside and do the best I could for everyone placed in my care. I continue each day to ask for His help in the 11th step prayer. Thank GOD for all the steps, they pave the way to living a sober life one day at a time.


Member: Eileen I.
Location: Conn.
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 23:14:29

Comments

Eileen,alcoholic. Amends it such a great topic. I am 5 yrs sober. I made the most important amends when i first got sober.ie: the girlfriend who always cleaned up the vomit, the mother who always laid in bed worrying about me at 5 am and the family who I hated to be with. The one I must constantly make amends to is myself. I beat myself up all the time when I think of the hek I put myself through. Still, I have no self worth. I still, after 5 yrs say to myself. 28yrs old and haven't accomplished anything except I got sober. Everyone in my life flips out when I say that,because they know that getting and staying sober is a hard task to do. Especially with an entire family of alcoholic and drug abusers. I read a comment from someone from nj that stated that he had to say goodbye to a loved one. I did that 2 yrs ago. It was my first very close loss. My favorite cousin of only 20 yrs of age died in a car crash on Feb 1 1995 and still, i don't know how i stayed sober. I did it the hard way too. No meetings no fellow AA members. Just me, my HP and my cousin who I know held me in her arms the whole night. All of her friends and all of my family drank there hurt away among things like muscle relaxers and the such. I did it stone cold sober. Tough,tough thing to do!!!Well, thank you for letting me share sorry so lenghty. If anyone would like to e mail me and chat: EIvey21170@webtv.net GOD BLESS


Member: Brian H.
Location: N.
Date: 07 Jul 1998
Time: 23:32:35

Comments

Hi, I'm Brian an alcoholic.

This is my first time at an online meeting so bear with me. I am in my seventh year of recovery even though I havn't made it to f2f meeting for a while (about three months) but for the grace of a loving God I still am a greatful member of AA.

I had a great deal of trouble dealing with making amends early on in the fellowship. When one day I read a story about the Rock Star Ozzie Ozborne who had just performed a free concert in Texas. This was the firs time he was allowed to perform in Texas for ten years because after a show one night he was arrested for urinating on the Alamo. Since then he sobered up and this was his way of making amends by performing a concert for free. After readig that I realized that even though I had done alot of bad stuff in my drinking I didn't have to make amends to the entire state of Texas. It seamed to put things in perspective for me and I was ableto grow by making the amends I need to do on a daily basis.

Thanks for the time I will keep reading.


Member: Don J
Location: Black Hills of SD
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 00:40:01

Comments

My name is Don and I am an alcholic. I made through yesterday without a drink and have agood chance for today as it is 10 PM mdt here. The funeral service was just as my wife Glenda would have liked it. The church was full of a lot of people that I had never met before yet she had in some way touched their lives. There was a lot of singing, some laughter and tears and lot of love. A time for the children a letter or f recommendation to God for His new employee as if he didn't already know her qualification. The funeral procession went by the first school sdhe ever taught in and the first house we lived in when we moved to RC.They say in this world there are no couincidences(SP) just miracles where God chooses to remain anonymous. The family has started to leave now and the house is getting quiet asnd like my brother said let the healing begin. Some one said the pain is going to be as deep as my love was for Glenda if that is true it is going to hurt for a long time. I am aski9ng fror your prayer tonight to help me and my family through this time of pain. Thanks for letting me unload. Keep coming back. Thanks to all for your words of comfort.


Member: Jim G.
Location: Maryville, TN
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 02:42:10

Comments

Hey Pam and all, Jim Alcoholic,

Amends are a change. My best teacher says, that to amend the constitution, you change it.

Now that is easier said than done.

After a few years sobriety, i realize that the chage I most needed was not drinking, but eventually that wasn't enough. Sorry to say, I am not perfect today. I still have needed changes to make and there are areas in my life i haven't a clue as to how to remedy.

The eexperience I have had is that where I could change I did. Where I couldn't, I have done my best to hold them down to character flaws and not damaging actions. I fail at control of almost anything.

I found, that God takes us misfits and makes our efforts, even failing efforts, a demonstration of his goodness, not ours. He shows his love, thru making misfits, useful and productive.

He has taken my harsh unplanned words and made them stick and stand the test of time for the drunk who needed a friend even when the words didn't flow, the love of God did.

Now I owe money, i told the person involved. I have yet to make the financial restitution. I have not enjured them or others, so I feel confident, that soon, that I will be able to make small, but substancial payments so as to rid my life of that debt. The real struggle was admitting I was wrong. Once I did that, the issue resolved itself and hasn't haunted or lurked within me.

I am at peace. That is the hope I have found thru direct amends. Immediate is best for me, for others they recomend a long drawn out process, in hopes that someone will die and a simple letter at a grave would help resolve inner conflict. I have found that for me, the best solution is living in it. I do the next right thing.

As I just heard the other day...who would have ever thought doing the next right thing was doing the next right thing.

That is short and sweet but so profound. God will grant the change, the will to complete what is needed, and he will also grant the peace and reassurance that sobriety doesn't have to lurk just beyond grasp, he will let ya have it all along the journey. He sure has helped me in all areas of life, since i made the 1st step to listen to Ricky J on my back poarch, with a drink on my mind.

That 12 step taught me to relax and let God do the work, he has and I am grateful.

Jim (CrossAdctd@aol.com}


Member: Emma E
Location: Salinas, Ca.
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 04:58:53

Comments

Hi My name is Emma and I am an alcoholic, addict. I have be surfing on the internet for a while and I can not seem to find any in on any active meetings in Mexico. Does anyone know how I can get this info. If so please please e-mail me this information to materialgirl1@webtv.net. I will be visiting Mexico this month and I will be needing a few meetings to keep my sobriety. Thank you


Member: Mark L.
Location: S.I. N.Y
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 08:33:24

Comments

Hi,Mark L.,Alcoholic, Pat I want to thank you for sharing that with me it helped me get through the day. I made a REALLY GOOD MEETING last night and saw some people I haven't seen in awhile which helped alot. I know it will get better but I just get really tired sometimes. I even realized last night that I have started to make some amends to people without realizing it. I have just made some amends to my wife, father, and my previous sponsor. Especially my old Sponsor did not have a HIGHER POWER and did not work the STEPS. So I decided to move on. From that day on we just kind of didn't get along anymore. I thought that I was growing, but found out I was acting more like a child. I recently called him up for his anniversary and asked him if he needed anything. He told me he needed to get a copy of Dr. Bob and the Oldtimers. As it turns out he had given me that to me for my 1st anniversary. So now I can turn around and give him what he had given me. This is what I love about the program. For that TODAY I am GRATEFUL.

Thank for Letting me Share

Mark

P.S. I am going to his anniverasry tonight.


Member: ramon p.
Location: miami
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 14:08:03

Comments

Hi people: 5 years sover and my amends are on a daily base to my wife my kids my self. And I donot mean that Iam beating my self for my past actions but a kind word an smile when something upsseting is beggining to take shape that is the new me.Just remembering where my old self use to take me That to me is a way to make amends on a daily base. Ramon P.


Member: Bonnie C
Location: Seattle
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 17:24:00

Comments

Hi extended family, bonnie/alcoholic here, (((ROOM-HUG))) so so good to be here sober and clean today, ((pam)) thanks for the great topic, AMENDS but first of all to ((Jim)) I believe all that read your heart on this page hold your hand and have you in their prayers, I know I do my friend. hang in there, this too shall pass or change, and to ((Mark L)) the other hand is for you and you are also in my prayers, have had some of the worst pain of my life in sobriety and as hard as this is to imagine, this also shall pass. back to AMENDS - 12 days after I got sober my mom died, (although, I was happy God took her home, for she was in alot of pain) she wasnt just a mother she was my best friend, we were very co-dependent on each other, she was in charge of rescuing me and I was in charge of rescuing her, so how, when I felt guilty for her death could I ever make amends to her besides she had abandoned me by dying. first of all, my sponsor made me understand that my guilt was just ego, trying to play God in her life as I had allowed her to be in mine along with my husband, kids or society, whomever I was giving the power to at the time. but she was dead, now what? sponsor told me to ask my HP to either relay a message to her or allow her to listen in as I made my amends to her and as I was doing it a very strong message came thru, whether it was from Mom herself or my HP it was that the greatest way for me to make amends to my mom was to stay sober and live life to the fullest, that gut sensor that ((pat o)) spoke about, felt a wonderful contentment that was so foreign to me at that time, but the message came thru loud and clear. the amends with my dad who abandoned us when I was young was a strange one, I related the only time I had ever actually disrespected him and he remembered it, i think I was 13 at the time and when i made my amends at 32 - it opened up the floodgates of his guilt and made his amends to me and does almost every time I talk with him, another amends was to a friend that I had made up a fictional lover to so I wouldnt have to go out with her and the gang anymore, so I could sit at home and brood and drink alone and with that one she never spoke to me again, she liked me sick, my husband didnt want a sober wife, he wanted his drinking partner back, he liked me martyred and guilty, he now has another practicing alcoholic wife and is still living the madness, 18yrs later. I made amends to my kids early on, they were 8-12-14 when I got sober, well about 3 1/2 yrs ago I was having some reflection on how horribly I had been treated in a relationship when i realized that I had treated my own kids the same way in the past and now I knew how they felt then. so it was time for another level of amends to them. It has strengthened my relationships with them today, they are 26-31-32. I now have 3 awesome grandbabies that I am trusted with, they know me as Nana who loves them soooooo much! this is the beautiful results of amends in my life. relationship healings and a gut that doesnt twist when I think of things, if it starts, which it does when I'm to deal with something at a deeper level, I write and work the steps on it. those that were there for my highest good are still in my life, those that have gone on before me await my arrival. those that no longer speak to me never wanted me to be well. so when God is in control, my life is in perfect order. enuf from me, Dear God please bless all who venture here. Love and hugs, bon


Member: Justin C
Location: Fresno Ca.
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 18:46:15

Comments

Good topic. I believe the purpose of this step is to become more usefull to God. Which to me is a lesson in humility. Willingness to change my behavior is of utmost importance. I need to not only addmit I was wrong but pray for God's help me to move beyond the selfishness that I was in, that brought on the behavior in the first place. I have never had an easy time of making amends. I'm just so full of pride. Over the years I have gotten much more promt but only because of the development of a conscience and an unwillingness to suffer the pain of knowing I have hurt someone. So again it is God doing for me what I could not do for myself.


Member: Mark L.
Location: Seattle
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 20:37:28

Comments

I couldn't agree more with Catherine. This is "keeping it simple" at it's finest! The past is gone, deal with it and move on.

>I'm Catherine and I'm an alcoholic. Thanks for the great >topic. For me, making amends doesn't always have to be saying I'm sorry. >It means to set it right and I do that with my behavior. Sure, I have told the >people I hurt I was sorry, but I have also changed the way I behave >towards them. I try to make my amends by living life well. Thanks for >letting me share.


Member: FAYLA    G
Location: GALENA   KS
Date: 08 Jul 1998
Time: 23:38:00

Comments

Fayla ,alcoholic ,Don ,you are in my prayers and in my heart,but most of all God is there watching over you. Love and prayes to you my brother, may you find peace ,FAYLA G


Member: Randy D.
Location: Ohio(Home Office)
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 08:16:41

Comments

Hi I am Randy and by the Grace of God I just celebrated 12 years of Sobriety. I can highly suggest that all of the steps be worked especially the amends, except when to do so would injure them or others. I was very fortunate to work amends with my loving brother Bill who I had stolen from when he was in the service and I was drinking and partying. My sponsor told me that amends included cash amends so when he was laid off on christmas a few years back I took him the money I owed him at the suggestion (strong) of my sponsor. At that point my brother and I became loving brothers again and we got to enjoy each other for a few more years. He died unexpectedley of a brain tumor at 41 years of age. If i had not made amends I would have had to make them to another soul like I did my fathers amends who had passed ahay before I became sober. This was a much easier softer way. Do them amends I mean. Love Randy


Member: Ramona M
Location: Chipley Fla
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 08:48:38

Comments

Hello everyone Iam Ramona an alcoholic Pam great topic I fell when one makes amends they have to genuine sincer or it all falls on deaf ears. When I make an amends I not only am doing that I also am admitting a character defect that caused me to have to make the amends in the first place. I know in my story my father would not accept mt\y amends the only thing I could do was pray for him. Sometimes I rhink when we make an amends it akso causes the ither person to have to look at themselves, in case my father he was not willing to do that Rhanks everyone for all your sharing for this is how I stay sober one day at a time. Ramona M Chipley Fla


Member: Ramona M
Location: Chipley Fla
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 08:49:09

Comments

Hello everyone Iam Ramona an alcoholic Pam great topic I fell when one makes amends they have to genuine sincer or it all falls on deaf ears. When I make an amends I not only am doing that I also am admitting a character defect that caused me to have to make the amends in the first place. I know in my story my father would not accept mt\y amends the only thing I could do was pray for him. Sometimes I rhink when we make an amends it akso causes the ither person to have to look at themselves, in case my father he was not willing to do that Rhanks everyone for all your sharing for this is how I stay sober one day at a time. Ramona M Chipley Fla


Member: Stan K.
Location: NJ
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 11:34:58

Comments

Hello, we are clients of Bridgeway, in Elizabeth New Jersey. We are part of the MICA program, which is a program for people with mental illness, and substance abuse. We are interested in finding a double trouble meeting, or an AA meeting at 11:00 AM, on Thursdays. Please reach us at BWI@Erols.com


Member: Stan K.
Location: NJ
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 11:35:49

Comments

Hello, we are clients of Bridgeway, in Elizabeth New Jersey. We are part of the MICA program, which is a program for people with mental illness, and substance abuse. We are interested in finding a double trouble meeting, or an AA meeting at 11:00 AM, on Thursdays. Please reach us at BWI@Erols.com


Member: Stan K.
Location: NJ
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 11:36:30

Comments

Hello, we are clients of Bridgeway, in Elizabeth New Jersey. We are part of the MICA program, which is a program for people with mental illness, and substance abuse. We are interested in finding a double trouble meeting, or an AA meeting at 11:00 AM, on Thursdays. Please reach us at BWI@Erols.com


Member: Wendy S.
Location: Bethel
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 15:33:44

Comments

Just for Don. My prayers are surely with you as you mourn the loss of your beloved wife. God will see you through and you know you have a fan up there now, she'll help Him.

I always have a hard time knowing just what to say to people but may I say my heart goes out to you and yours.


Member: Leo W.
Location: Knoxville, TN
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 15:47:12

Comments

Hi. I'm Leo and I'm an alcoholic. This is my first meeting on the internet. I'm glad I found this site; you all seem great.

I find that my spiritual well-being and my happiness are a direct result of how diligently I work the steps, especially the action steps. I've made most of my amends (or at least begun most of them), but there are a few that I've put off. I'm a procrastinator, and I tend to put off things that uncomfortable, no matter how good they are for me. My procrastination hasn't led me back to the bottle (yet), but it does tend to get between me and life (or me and my HP; same thing). When I get restless, irritable and discontented enough, I'll finish my amends, I'll feel better, and I'll wonder why I put it off so long.

The Big Book does not tell me to make amends to myself, and that's all right. When I make amends to the people around me that I've hurt, I feel a little better, I walk a little taller, and I'm not afraid to look in the mirror. That itself is a profound amends for me, far better than anything I could have concocted.

To Jim R., I think "LOL" means "lots of love." Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.


Member: kathy W.
Location: OR.
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 16:43:42

Comments


Member: two cents
Location:
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 18:50:52

Comments

LOL actually means "laugh out loud" but I like "lots of love" better!


Member: Perry H
Location: Maine
Date: 09 Jul 1998
Time: 22:06:42

Comments

And "Became Willing to make Amends to them All" Operative words:

Became Willing.

I pray to "Become Willing" First!

I am willing to do whatever is needed to stay sober. I also pray for the oportunity to help another.


Member: Bob J
Location: Bay Area, CA
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 02:22:18

Comments

Hi! I'm Bob, an alcoholic. This is my first internet AA discussion and my first few hours sober in a long time. Your comments have made me really think. I was a f2f AA member and slipped for over a year. I believe this site will help me gain more strength to continue trying and also to face those who I have let down over the years. First things first, but staying sober is a way to make amends to oneself and others. More later and may you all make it one more day at a time.


Member: AA member
Location:
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 10:00:27

Comments

To Bob J. Welcome back, be kind to yourself, we are just thankful that you MADE it back. One day at a time.


Member: Ruby O
Location: Georgia
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 12:11:17

Comments

Hello I am Ruby A grateful recovered alcoholic and happy to be here today.Thank you Pam for the topic for this week. I remember when I went to do my 5th step it ws frightening because I had written so much that I was certain I would be making amends and searching for years. My sponsor heard my 5th and then she helped me to make the amends list. The list was scary but not nearly as long as I had thot it would be. I had to learn tolive an amends life. I also had to make amends to deceased loved ones. But some of us are sicker than others and I had to repeat the 5th later to adjust as I had found character defects I did not know I had on 1st one . Today I am still weeding my garden but have been sober near 13 years. Do it it works just follow directions with a good honest sponsor God Bless All here


Member: Mark L.
Location: Staten Island ,N.Y
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 13:51:32

Comments

Mark L. Alcoholic, Bob J. welcome back. I know I have a few friends in the program that tell me that we have enough scouts out there! I also was told if they come back they usually have arrows up their butt!. This always keeps it green for me. I had to give up my meeting last nite to make sure my wife would use our program(which is marriage councelling). Have'nt been there for a couple of weeks, its just like when you miss meetings the attitutes you have really kick up. At least I have meetings to go to. We needed to be there to vent. I am making amends to my father, I am having him over for a bbq this weekend and he is going to stay over for the FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE at MY HOUSE. This program is full of miracles this I am grateful for. Thanks for everybodys share. Going to buy a computer this week ,any suggestions "what kind?" Everyone have a nice weekend, talk to yas on Monday.

Chow


Member: Bob J
Location: Bay Area
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 16:36:33

Comments

I'm Bob J, an alcoholic. Thanks for the welcome back from AA Member and Mark L. I made it to a f2f AA meeting while I had the shakes so bad I could hardly pass the collection basket, stood up and introduced myself, met a lot of wonderful people, got a schedule of meetings and also a sponsor. I've also set things in motion to make amends to a very dear friend tonight. Things are already looking better. One day at a time though.


Member: Colleen
Location: Penna
Date: 10 Jul 1998
Time: 22:17:41

Comments

Hi everybody. My name is Colleen and I am an alcoholic! I just celebrated 13 years this past Tuesday(one day at a time). Finding this online meeting is WONDERFUL!! The discussion concerning amends is a good topic, I really enjoyed and identified with alot of the comments that were made. When I first got sober I was glad this step was at the end of the list! because I never wanted to have to face the people I had hurt. But with the help of a good sponsor and alot of people in the program I made it through. I continue today to make amends immediately(when necessary) but the key is living in a way so I don't have to be in that position. Of course I am human...this is a great way to spend a friday night...Thank you all and God bless!!


Member: Pam B.
Location: oregon coast
Date: 11 Jul 1998
Time: 02:26:15

Comments

Pam B. alcoholic I know, I know ,I'm only supposed to post here once a week. I just wanted to let everyone know how much there shares on this topic have helped me and thank you all so much. Before aa I never asked anyone for help with anything, let alone something dealing with honest emotion. I am so grateful for all of you and all of the AA fellowship. I am not real good with words, and can never seem to express how I truly feel, but boy, you guys(and gals) give me hope. Thanks.


Member: Joy G.
Location: NE of Houston, TX
Date: 11 Jul 1998
Time: 12:07:47

Comments

I am Joy, an Alcoholic, who just discovered Staying Cyber this morning. Don, I am so sorry for your loss and can well relate. I lost my husband to prostate cancer 10 months and 11 days ago. On the 13th day I discovered that no amount of alcohol would ever lessen my grief so I went to a wonderful county facility and sobered up. I thank God for the years with my husband whom forgave me almost every morning. It is by God's grace that I am here sharing instead of joinging my husband by one form or another. It took his death to wake me up. Don, please remember you will be in my prayers daily. It is normal to grieve and cry and talk to your beloved wife and sense her near you. Thank you for sharing with us. May God bless you throughout the days and nights with the serenity and praise that will heal you in time. Never let it be said to you, (please everyone), that it is time to stop grieving & get to work. God will lead you, Don; He knows your grief and and has proven to you that you may rest in Him.

I am new to the Steps and have no sponsor as most are sponsoring too many as it is. A friend suggested that I start a Step Meeting. Please join me prayer for the answer. Thank you everyone. It has lessened my grief to share.


Member: Mike L.
Location: Ham.,N.J.
Date: 11 Jul 1998
Time: 23:08:46

Comments

Hi ALL Im Mike,a grateful recovering alcoholic .Amends to me is shown through my actions.To show people Im sorry for my past,is simply PROVING IT!!!By that I mean try my best One Day At A Time to be the best(Honest,Understanding,Helpful and Loving)person I can possibly be.Keep The Faith,and when you're going through hell,don't stop!Thanks all for the great suggestions,and comments.


Member: Angelo H
Location: PA
Date: 12 Jul 1998
Time: 00:11:07

Comments

Greetings, I'm Angelo, an alcoholic. Great to have found an online meeting. Meeting makers make it, just got in from a great open disc. meeting. Each amend we make brings us closer to our HP and the promises are bcomming a reality!I do believe that staying sober is not enough, staying sober is staying sober. Making amends is making amends. We make them because we have to. The benefit is that they do make us feel good. While taking my 5th I learned that what I had done to my family was in addition to all pain I had caused them, I had stolen their time. I am today able to give time back as well as give all that I can, of myself and thanks to AA I know how to accomplish that. God led me to AA and you all led me to God and I am grateful to all. Big Book page 181, last line. Thanks Don, I just went in and kissed my wife good night and meant it! Good night all.