Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 12:39:46 PM
Hello All - LeeEllen here and a grateful recovering alcoholic. I can't believe I'm the first one here!
I'd like to discuss about the "bad times." So often in meetings, we don't discuss the things in life that truly test our serenity. What to people do when they find themselves in such a state of "unpeace" or tragedy or upheaval?? What do you do when you can't get back to the place where you feel at peace?
Starting in January, I've lost 3 members of my immediate family --- granddaughter, husband of 11 months, and his mother. I'm finding this has put me in a place of "limbo." While I haven't lost my faith, I'm not getting anywhere either. I know it's a time of grief, but even in grief I've been able previously to find some stability in my program.
What do people do in their daily lives when they've just lost their "verve" or can't seem to get back into the program like before? Not all of us can be serene all the time --- not all of us can work a good program ALL the time. I've talked to my sponsor, gone to meetings, prayed and yet still find myself floundering. I don't like that.
Not sure what the topic is, but maybe getting stuck??? Thanks for letting me share. Peace, LeeEllen
Member: Danny F. ("Doc" Thumbtack)
Location: "Cowtown", Texas
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 2:01:30 PM
Howdy, Y'all!
That's a topic I relate to! I haven't had to bury any loved ones, so far, this year, but, it's been one of the hardest, in a LONG time! Lately, it's like I have the "Reverse Midas Touch"! Everything I touch turns to crap! I try to keep myself spiritually fit, but, "Yes!", it's like, I'm spinning my wheels, and getting nowhere! I keep losing jobs, or taking jobs, that are inapporiate, and i have to quit them! I'm so far behind, in my bills, that It's got me really afraid, and, I have so much physical pain, that It disrupts the thinking process! Things, at my house are falling apart, my car is about on it's last gasp, and, for a traffic violation, there's a warrant, for my arrest! We are babysitting and sewing craft projects, to survive, and going deeper and deeper, in the hole! What am I doing, about it???? I'm praying! That's the ONLY thing, that I'm sure of, anymore! I'm hanging on, to my faith, that a door eill be opened, and, I will be given the strength, to walk through!! It seems, that my prayers are answered, with a good strong, "Wait!, but, I am wanting to take some action! I devise all kinds of schemes, in my mind, to solve some of our problems, but, to no avail! Yes! I do have a strong faith, but, I'm having a real problem, waiting on God! The Alcoholic, in me, tells me all kinds of lies, and, tries to get me to turn aside, from God! For today, though, that's not happening!!
Member: Danny F. ("Doc" Thumbtack)
Location: "Cowtown", Texas
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 2:01:52 PM
Howdy, Y'all!
That's a topic I relate to! I haven't had to bury any loved ones, so far, this year, but, it's been one of the hardest, in a LONG time! Lately, it's like I have the "Reverse Midas Touch"! Everything I touch turns to crap! I try to keep myself spiritually fit, but, "Yes!", it's like, I'm spinning my wheels, and getting nowhere! I keep losing jobs, or taking jobs, that are inapporiate, and i have to quit them! I'm so far behind, in my bills, that It's got me really afraid, and, I have so much physical pain, that It disrupts the thinking process! Things, at my house are falling apart, my car is about on it's last gasp, and, for a traffic violation, there's a warrant, for my arrest! We are babysitting and sewing craft projects, to survive, and going deeper and deeper, in the hole! What am I doing, about it???? I'm praying! That's the ONLY thing, that I'm sure of, anymore! I'm hanging on, to my faith, that a door eill be opened, and, I will be given the strength, to walk through!! It seems, that my prayers are answered, with a good strong, "Wait!, but, I am wanting to take some action! I devise all kinds of schemes, in my mind, to solve some of our problems, but, to no avail! Yes! I do have a strong faith, but, I'm having a real problem, waiting on God! The Alcoholic, in me, tells me all kinds of lies, and, tries to get me to turn aside, from God! For today, though, that's not happening!!
Member: Danny F. ("Doc" Thumbtack)
Location: "Cowtown", Texas
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 2:03:10 PM
OOPS!
Member: Jeff B
Location: Northern CA
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 2:34:54 PM
Hi, My name is Jeff and I am an alcoholic.
LeeEllen- your post helps me stay sober. Difficult times do come in sobriety and sharing what it was like, what happened and what it is like today is sometimes all we have. Your example can give a person strength.
When I was drunk most of the time my mom was very sick and she could have died. I am glad to say she made it. God has given me the gift of AA and sobriety so that I can be there for her and the other members of my family and for another alcoholic. God and AA give me stength some days when I just don't have any.
Not drinking today gives me the chance to be there. It allows me to not make things worse and sometimes make things better. Trusting God, praying, and then taking a simple action that seems to be right can things rolling again for me. We can make it!
Thanks to all for being here.
Member: Donnie M (DOS 3-1-99)
Location: Short Gap, W.Va
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 5:28:25 PM
Hi,to all I`m Donnie and I am a alcoholic. Thank`s Lee Ellen this topic is still a fresh one for me also, I have lost both my parent`s in soberity both from illness. I thank God everyday that he did not let them suffer anylonger. I have lost pet`s I had for 15,16,and 18 year`s (dog`s) they were like a brother and sister`s . I have had sickness , back problem`s. My wife had an accident at work that had her in and out of the hospital 7 time`s this past winter. I have lost jobs. I have lost cars. I guess I could say damn soberity suck`s, but that is life and I know if I were to drink over something that I have no control over would be a waste of what I have worked for. Today, I HAVE a son , a wife , and most important to me today I have soberity. I never would have lived this long if I was to drink the way I did. I try not to get to depressed , because I am doing more in life today than I ever thought possible. I am a college student, I am involed in A.A. I open group`s , and try to give back what has been given to me. Today with GOD in my corner I can`t go wrong. The A.A. program really does work if you chose to accept your problem`s and don`t sit on your ass and wine about thing`s you or anybody has any control over. My sponor once told me if your ass is falling off pick it up and get it to a meeting , cause if we think about shit we get shit. So everybody keep it simple and just DON`T DRINK. Thank`s for letting me share and GOD BLESS ALL.
Member: Sallieg
Location: houston
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 6:23:44 PM
Sallie Houston
sallie. recovering alcoholic. thanks for the topic. I too, have been through the ravages of death, my Mother, from cancer, and an Uncle who committed suicide because he was depressed after open heart surgery. Had I not found the network of women available to me, I would not have been able to withstand the pain. I now have no family (except my A.A and believe me , they are my family) and a husband who is not in the program. if you have a grief counseling center in your area, that would certainly be a plus. Intergroup in your area may have info on that as well as mental health organizations. for me, I spent a year or more discussing her death at A.A. meetings and no one seemed to mind, becasue i was real close that that first drink. I have to say that the network of women have saved my neck. I used to want to (or did) sleep with other women's husbands and stab them in the back. I had not idea what it was like to have a real 'friendship" with a woman. However, now they are the closest beings to angels I have encountered. I have found that grief is a process, much like getting sober. I'll be praying for you.
Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 7:28:21 PM
LeeEllen again here - I know I'm only supposed to post once, but wanted to add that there seems to be a reluctance on the old-timers part to admit that they too struggle at times. Why is that??? It would be helpful to others to know that even with many years sober, struggle is a part of recovery ---- what do they do about it??? Thanks again. Peace, Lee
Member: peace-to-you
Location:
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 8:06:35 PM
Hi an alcoholic here. I only have 17 years, so I'm still a youngster, but I have been through a few really tough times in sobriety, and seen people go through some real heart aches. All I can say is that what won't kill you can make you stronger once you're through it. But life's not fair, and not very easy at times either. I have had more than one healthy surrender in this program, the first time got me into the steps and the later surrenders kept me alive during tribulations in my life. I have seen a number of people face painful depressions, loose faith and cash it in, but for the ones who continue to have the desire to stop drinking, even when times are tough, they have something to offer us all because in their survival are lessons that they share to make the road easier for others. Not all people will treat you like you feel you deserve when you're going through tough times, but your HP will not fail you if you have faith.
Just remember, in AA, we don't have to do it alone.
Best wishes to all the newly sober people. The program works if you work it. Go to face to face meetings where you can see people like yourself that have plowed the ground for you.
Member: Kat M.
Location: CA
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 10:52:19 PM
That share from the 17 year sober alcoholic was beautifully written...all I can add only as a thought is, just keep on putting one foot in front of the other...sometimes the only thing needed is to just hang on, grit your teeth, and don't loose faith! Thanks for listening.
Member: C.J. M
Location: Black Ankle.N.C.
Date: 7/1/01
Time: 11:53:21 PM
Hey All, I'm a cross-addicted alcoholic named C.J. I believe that every thing we lose in life is there to test our faith and to test us.I lost my mother in Jan. my father 15 yrs. ago. i'm very glad that i had been sober and was able to enjoy the last 2 yrs. of my mother's life with her. I belive pain is what lets you know your still alive. I spent 35 yrs.trying to drink the pain away,only to have it kick me in the face even harder the next morning.Of corse we all know that story.I pray, go to meetings and share,talk to my sponser,and try to carry the message to other alcoholics.Most of all I have faith in my HP whom I chose to call GOD that every problem, every sorrow, every downfall is there to help me grow stronger if I keep asking for his guidence and keep doing the next right thing that is put in front of me.
Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 1:06:25 AM
Hello Family. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona This is a darn good topic LeeEllen. In reference to your second posting. I am an "ole timer" working on my twentieth year. My recovery is shot through with failures. And I do share them at the proper moments. With my sponsees in depth and when I speak. They are an important part of my recovery. In general, I do not share them at discussion meetings unless it pertains directly to the chosen topic.
In a nut shell. I have quit jobs in sobriety. I have been fired from jobs in sobriety. One company closed during my employ. My mother died in very early sobriety before I made my amends to her. I did get that resolved later. My amends are made. The most significant "bad thing" happened in my 13th year. I was terminal and faced my own death. There are too many preventable suicides during my recovery. Recently, I have had minor problems with my canopy during my last two jumps. LOL We call them inconveniences.
The question you asked was what did I do about those "bad things". Essentially I got out of the problem and into solutions. I had excellent sponorship from day one. I did not just "work" the Steps. I was taught how to actually make them a working part of my life. I keep them fresh with a few minutes of reading on a daily basis. I kept it as simple as the first 164 pages.
You see, coming into AA did not get me a ticket to heaven, nor did it lead me to the gates of Hell. But it did get me sober enough to choose which way I wanted to go. It is all up to you :) My successes outnumber my failure by far. Write for details
By the way, I didn't die LOL.
Hugs, Bill
az-bill@mindspring.com
Member: miriam t
Location: Baltimore, MD
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 4:12:37 AM
Hi, ya all. Been awhile since I posted. Things are going well, and it's all due to my HP. The things that have happened to me in the past 17 months would not have been possible without his divine intervention. Don't get me wrong, it hasn't all been easy but I just keep putting one foot in front of the the other, pray, go to meetings and talk to my sponsor. I also say thank you at the end of every day for all of my blessings. Hang in there Lee ellen all things will come to pass in his time.
Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West Fl
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 5:56:28 AM
Hi Family Charlie darling a very gratful recovering ALCHOLIC, and I can relate to the topic not only for myself but for the program of AA. We had this woman with over 29 years sober when her son died a young man with 3 children, and she came to the meetings and shared her pain of not wanting to pick up a drink but to have the pain end, and that was just a short while back, and she is one of the most wonderful support to everyone that is what kept her from picking up was to get out of herself and help other alcholics. I am now going through some things right now as I am the oldest of ten, and my nephew whose mother and father(mybrother) are both passed on, and he felt he could only turn to me, as he just found out he As AIDS and in a bad stage, and I can be there for him as I am sober and canlove him which he needs right now, and I am also trying to help him get some faith back as he lost that as well, and if I had still been drinking I would not be able to do what I am abvle top do today to be there and that makes me feel good, as I have people looking to me for help and advice instead of saying don't ask him he is drunk and don't know what he is taling about, and I can be present and can reach my hand to help not only my biological family but my AA family which is a wonderful family so I turn to my Aa family with what ever problem I have as they have been there done that, and they wear the world like a loose garment, and it helps me to remember that I am not alone, as there is always someone in AA with thier hand out to help me especially with my spiritual aspect. So don't drink go to meetings and talk to other alcholics it works only if we work it, and I go to a meeting everyday even if I feel I don't need one, as that is when I need to hear what I need to at that time, and share what is bothering you as it helps to get it out on the floor even if you share it everyday it helps. My prayers go out to all who are suffering today, and I pray that you find thestrength and serenty that God wants you to have I Love you all.kwduke@keysdigital.com
Member: Mark W.
Location: St. Louis
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 6:56:17 AM
Hi, Mark, recovering alcoholic here. Very good topic. Yes, the hard times still do occur. I went to AA when my family left. I thought at the time it was for them. Not so, it was for me! AA taught me so many things, and gave me tools to use for those hard times. My HP, GOD as I call him, gave my family back long enough to bring my sobriety to firm ground. I love the woman to this day, as well as her daughter. Each time she gives back things that are mine, I get something that is intended to hurt me. The last batch included a report from the private investigator she hired with my money to watch me. The report goes into a trip to AA I made. He had a flat tire when the meeting was over. HP, thank you. The whole point is that we all still encounter bumps in the road. My divorce was final the 17th of May or June, doesn't really matter, now does it? I cannot change this, and while I love them, perhaps it was not in the plan for me. I'll just live it day by day..... Old timer? Well that is as the rest of life, dependant on the viewer. I have 5 years that neither parent had, they both died of live failure caused by our dis-ease. Hope each one reading this lives this twenty four sober, Mark
Member: Jim Mc
Location: Texas
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 9:15:36 AM
Hi, My name is Jim an alcoholic, By the unmerited favor of a Power Greater than myself I choose to call God, I have been sober today and have been since 12-20-69. for that I am truly grateful..a great teacher dropped a little line on me one time that has stuck with me. "pain is inevitable but suffering is optional", when I first heard that I thought what a bunch of bunk, but as time and experiences stacked up I begain to realize the truth in that little line. In my drinking days I did'nt have to worry much about pain, if it came up I would just drown it in booze which would cause more pain so the cycle contenued until I was forced to come to AA. The people of the fellowship taught me how to deal with pain by their words, the 12 steps and the personnel examples. Pain is something to be delt with it requires action on our part( prayer, meetings, the Big Book, working with and through others, being willing to be open and honest to ourselves and those around us), we just can't think it away. Suffering on the other hand we can keep for ourselves and make the whole world around us pay for it. It's our choose. Since coming to AA I have lost both parents, my father with many unresolved issues, mother to a very terrible disease that neither of us understood at the time, children hurt in accidents, a job that nearly killed me,I thought, and a wife that can be somewhat unreasonable at times, but through it all, my Higher Power, AA and the AA people were there for me as long as I was willing to act. Don't get me wrong I have spent a lot of unproductive time in suffering, but through the healing of my Higher Power and a kick in the butt from those who love me, I don't stay there long now. Plus through life's experiences I can say to my self " we got through that situation, we can get through the one next to come". Thank God for AA and the people who share themselves with us. mcg@detnet.com
Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 9:31:16 AM
Hello folks, I'm Curtis, a recovering alcoholic and other things. LeeEllen, life is tough and as an AA buddy in Midland, Texas puts it "justice is not of this world". Loved the comment about wearing the world as a loose garment. Hadn't thought about that in years.
You know, good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. So, we're going to get both no matter what, how, or who we are. I have been divorced twice in soberity, and wasn't divored once while drinking. I was 18 months sober when I/we, her choice, ended a 27 year relationship. She liked me better drinking than sober. I was more controlable through guilt when I was guilty (of being drunk). My Dad died last year, my wife had a heart attack. Real life stuff. I am not in control, God is. I thank him every night for the good and seemingly bad things of that day and I've been doing that on my knees for over 16 years without a drink. I'm grateful when I can deal with life on life's terms. That's honest and real.
I need to talk a little about complacentcy. I'd be sober and very active in AA for over 12 years when I took an early retirement and moved from Houston to Goliad. Both my parents had to go into a nursing home in 1996, and I left Houston (Katy) on 1-1-97. In Kingsville where I sobered up, then Corpus Christi, then Midland, then Houston, I'd averaged about 5 or 6 meeting a week and was always sponsoring several people. Goliad is a town of 1800 population, and the one meeting a week here is more probationers to get their cards signed than people that want to stop drinking. I started letting up on my AA program a little. I'd still drive to Victoria or Refugio for a meeting, but I wasn't active in AA, just attending a few meeting. A couple of years ago, my flawed person took up another habit or action that lead me to another twelve step program 53 days ago. So, now, I'm going back through the steps, and getting my spirituality back. I hadn't drank, but I had let up on the maintenance of my spiritual program. I choose to believe that God allowed me to run loose again until I hit the end of my rope, and came back to him. He's obviously not through with me yet.
This is my first time here, but it will not be my last unless I die today. Thank all of your for your posts because I can't do this thing by myself.
Love and Hugs in the fellowship, Curtis L. tiger@selectrec.net
Member: Melanie G.
Location: Northeast Indiana
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 11:57:57 AM
Hello, I am Melanie and I am a recovering Alcoholic. I am new to the program, I have almost six months clean and sober. I lost both my parents within eleven days of one another in 1993. This of coarse happened while I was still drinking. I wish that I had found the program before this happened as I could of dealt with my grief in a much more productive way. Which LeeEllen it sounds like you are doing. Just think how your HP was with you when you were the one who was able to choose the topic for this week. He does work in mysterious ways. I know that you are going through some very trying times and you are doing the best you can through the program and prayer but if you are anything like I am we must also remember to be stil and listen to what He is trying to tell us. I know you have heard it before but He never gives us more than we can handle. We both know that the problems are there whether we are drunk or sober and by taking that first drink we have just moved away from out HP and he can no longer carry us. Keep trying and you will be in my thoughts and prayers. Our worse days sober are so much better than our best days drunk.
Member: Rich R, slowly recovering compulsive person :-)
Location: Detroit, MI (richr_srcp@hotmail.com)
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 4:42:46 PM
LeeEllen, thanks for the topic and sharing your pain with us. My name is Rich R and I am also from Michigan. There are no easy answers for all the grief that has fallen on you. I think it just takes time. My mother was 80 when she died and she had been in the hosptial for 3 weeks, but it still came as a shock to me. Both my brothers flew in that day and I ended up taking them to a 12-step meeting where I cried about my loss. My home group is like my family (sometimes even BETTER than my family). About 6 months later I went thru a terrible grief reaction to my mother passing when we finally buried her ashes in Vermont. I ended up locking myself in my bedroom for 2 days! Don't ask me what I was trying to prove, I just 'shut down'. My wife called some 'brothers' from the program and they came to my house to talk to me. It has now been several years since this happened but I can still feel the pain. I agree with what others have shared above, but I just want to tell you that I can relate to what you are going thru and hope that you can 'hang in there' until the pain starts to subside. Thanks again for the topic.
P.S. Glad to see Curtis made it here from the 'other site' we share. :-)
P.P.S. I don't consider myself an oldtimer yet, only sober 10 years so far :-)
Member: Ellen B.
Location: MA
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 7:43:31 PM
Who says you don't get what you need???? I'm Ellen, and a very grateful recovering alcoholic. It's been 6 years of 24 hours for me, so I'm a newbie. On Saturday, I sent an email out to my home group members who communicate via email that I needed "help". I herniated a disk the same day as I received my 6 year medallion, and am having it surgically removed on Friday the 13th!! In that email, I asked who had come across any sites that would help me while I am homebound, and unable to attend any face to face meetings. This was one of them, and did I ever get what I need!!! Lee Ellen, life still sucks sober, but at least we have the opportunity to experience it, the good, the bad, and the ugly. God does give us what we need, and when we need it. 2 years ago, my older brother who had 8 years of sobriety died of this dreadful disease. Because of this program, I was able to be there with the rest of my family when he took his last breath. Trust me, the drinking Ellen would have been down the street at the nearest bar. That night, my group had a commitment, and I went. My sponsor was chairing that night and of course called me first. All I remember is that I cried, but I thanked God and AA, that my brother was sober when he died, and that I was able to be part of life again. We have so much to be grateful for, and we so quickly can lose sight of it. There are no "coincidences" in this program. I am also a mental health professional, and sometimes, outside help is beneficial as an adjunct to our program. I will keep you in my prayers, and thank you so much for your posting, you don't know how much it has helped me. God bless all of you, and don't drink, you'll stay sober!
Member: Jim D
Location: Lakeland Fl
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 8:40:57 PM
HI, Jim, Alcoholic. When I get in a rut the best thing I can do is go back to the basics, meetings, sharing with my support group talking to my sponser and trying to help another alcoholic. When I came in to the rooms no one told me life would be easy, I think at times we forget that we are still human beings and we have to live life on life's terms.
Member: Pam B
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Date: 7/2/01
Time: 11:34:10 PM
Hi All, I'm Pam, an alcoholic - thank you LeeEllen for the topic - its great comfort just in knowing we are not alone when Life is happening on Life's Terms. It is a lot at once that you are going thru & my prayers are with you.
Sobriety for me has always gone in & out of very good times to very trying times & when in so much pain or so stressed, I cannot remember how to work the program & need to be told. Several times it has been those brand new newcomers visiting a meeting from a treatment center or within their 1st 30 days at meetings that have asked or shared those very simple basics we tend to forget about & need the reminders of. I have found that sponsoring & working with newcomers is the greatest gift for keeping myself growing & moving forward.
The recent "too much Life on Life's Terms" happening for me brought me further in application of living the 12 Steps. In the midst of several unexpected events happening one after another all in a month's time between April & May - events that were from extremely heartbreaking to severely stressful & fearful - then my father also entered the hospital on his death-bed in early April & died on May 4th.
Those basics - Acceptance - steps 1, 2 & 3 - trusting that God runs the whole show & I don't - trusting that God is with me all the way thru anything I may ever go thru - trusting that God has something of benefit for me in the end or it wouldn't be happening, etc. Peace does come inspite of the storm. Applying each Principle we have learned from each of the 12 Steps - esp Step 10 & seeing how I am in selfwill - identifying the fears so I can give them over to God - & getting out of myself by working with others.
Happy, joyous & free inspite of however Life on Life's Terms is happening today. Due to the events happening I have not been able to do my writing for getting on with the grieving process but I know to write it all out & then share my pain & losses is a must - cannot continue being put off.
Those basics Lee Ellen :-) Trust God, Clean House, Help Others. It still works. Hugs & love - my prayers are with you. Love you all. Thanks for letting me share. Pam
Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 1:51:46 AM
Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome newcomers! Thanks for the great shares!
Excellent topic, Lee Ellen. AAs being candid about the real world at last! Yes, it's scary sometimes isn't it? And we all know it's often "unfair" or unjust. It really is! But that's the very challenge we're asked to face sober, one day at a time.
Fortunately, we have the tools of the program, including our Higher Power, to help us build up our character in this way. And that's where I find my Higher Power "matching serenity with calamity," so to speak.
Nevertheless, I find that in those times when I have to confront what Lee Ellen has described so well, there's plenty I need to learn from others, so I'll keep reading.
PS. "Verve" is one of my favorite words, Lee Ellen, and I'm surprised it's primarily reserved for a jazz record label.
Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 7:14:53 AM
I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic, sober today by the grace of God and the fellowship of AA. By the gray hair on my head, lack of same, and sobriety date of Feb 19, 1979, guess I qualify as an old timer. I'll just say this. I was drunk the week my grandfather had his final illness, drunk when I was at his bedside, drunk at his funeral, and drunk every day for six months after he died. He was my best friend and my hero and I did everything I could to block out the pain. Then I got sober and stayed that way for 21 years. Then last summer, I got cancer and went through a year of "growth opportunities", like serious surgery and radiation therapy. Facing hell sober beats facing it drunk in a million ways. Sober, I have a chance to participate and be there. I have a chance to go to a power greater than myself for help. I can ask for the meaning of it all to be revealed to me. I can ask for the lessons that are being presented to me and to try and figure out God's plan. I have a chance to rediscover what I love in my life and once again list those things most important to me and give away the rest. I have a chance to choose again, to define myself for me and for those I love. Sometimes I measure up and sometimes I don't, but at least I have a chance. I'll take disaster sober over disaster drunk every time. Hopefully, I'll make it this time and be able to stick around for a few more years, but frankly, if it had to be drunk, I'd just as soon go now. My sobriety makes life worth living, even with all the speed bumps. One specific thing I always do when the chips are down, in addition to the meetings, readings, and prayers, is get off by myself so I can talk to God. This for me is outdoors away from the hustle and bustle of the city. There, I talk to him and ask for understanding and peace, just like the 11th step guidance in the BB tells us. Thanks for letting me share. Fred I can't even imagine losing all those people in less than a year. Maybe I wouldn't want to go on. But at least I would have my sobriety, my home group, my God, and the Big Book to keep me going, and sober, maybe I could choose to get through it. Drunk, I'd have no chance.
Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 7:33:04 AM
Fred again, sorry for the double dip. I see I need to edit my posts better near the end, but you can probably figure it out and see what I was trying to say. Thanks.
Member: Ann T
Location:
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 12:04:09 PM
It's been so long since I've been here. I have missed you all but I'm still sober since Apr.20, 2001.
Lee Ellen, a great topic choice; truly one I needed this week. I've been very busy feeling sorry for myself and it helps to know that I am not alone with troubles and agonies.
God bless you all and thanks for all your support while I worked to start on the right path.
Prayers and love. I can now be calm.
Member: Dennie H.
Location: Shelbyville, IN
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 3:23:17 PM
Wow, what an awesome meeting! LeeEllen, thank you for the topic and thanks to all of you for sharing so much experience, strength & hope. I'm Dennie, an alcoholic, who's really grateful to be sober and alive today.
When I was about 3 years sober, I thought my world would end because the "man ju dour" in my life had just accepted a transfer to another city about 7-8 hours away and didn't want to take me with - even though his sponsors and my sponsors had "blessed this relationship!"
So, feeling quite sorry for myself and once again furious at God for not letting me have what I wanted when I wanted it, I went to my Wed. night 12 & 12 meeting at Mary Seat of Wisdom in Park Ridge,IL!
I'm not sure what step we were on that night, but, a lady who had been walking the walk a lot longer than I talked about the bad times going on in her life and shared that what kept her sober, alive and not in jail that day was knowing and doing the following: "I don't have to drink to start a 90 & 90 ... And when I do this, things get better usually before the 90 & 90 is over and I'm still sober!"
When the meeting was over I felt so guilty about my selfish minor man-problem versus her real life-on-life's-terms-list: loss of a job, a recent diagnosis of multiple sclerosis and learning her ex husband was sexually abusing her 3 year old daughter! And bless her heart, she said, "Dennie, my problems don't diminish yours and you don't have to feel guilty about it." Even in her pain, she was practising what we read in The Big Book and hear at meetings: I get out of myself by working with another sick alcoholic. That night the sick alkie who wanted to drink and to commit suicide over the loss of another "loved one" was me.
Well, she was right - it works. Since then I've started many a 90 & 90 when the going got tough over whatever loss (deaths of my mother and several good friends,jobs,health, and a few more "prince charmings") Thanks to (1)her suggestion, (2) an all-loving, all-forgiving Higher Power, whom I choose to call God, and (3)all of your help,love and support in this fellowship, I've not had to drink over any of these losses.
And the best part? Today I'm so very, very grateful that God loved me enough to say "No" to my selfish wishes over that man. About 10 months later he started drinking again and if I'd been with him instead of where God led me, who knows if I'd be alive & sober today.
To you new folks, stick around for the miracles of sobriety - they truly are worth waiting for. As Marty D. used to say in those Park Ridge meetings, "God definitely wants so much more good for you than you can even imagine for yourself!"
So, LeeEllen, my dear sister in sobriety, hang in there and keep doing those basics - I'll remember you in my prayers.
Finally, at 15 years sober on 06-28-01,it's so great to feel like a "youngster" again at a meeting! Thanks again to all of you "old-timers" for sharing the wisdom you've learned in this program and fellowship.
Joyfully, Dennie H.
Member: Ed G,
Location: Bryan
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 3:28:48 PM
Hi Ed alcoholic, The topic is bad times. Well I am going through a pretty bad time right now. I just found out recently that I have liver disease and Hepitias C. I can't give up on myself because I want to live to be with my family. The only way I can get through this is to pray to me Higher Power which is God. I have to keep working my program, go to AA meetings and talk to my sponser. Be around people that really understand this disease(alcoholism}. So I am doing this one day at a time. God bless everyone.
Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 5:03:55 PM
Hi friends, I'm an alcoholic and my name is Curtis. Bad times are when I'm not getting my way. After 16 years sober, I'm still childish, selfish, and self-centered, but I can honestly say that I'm much better than I was 16 years ago. I must remember,progress,not perfection. As someone said earlier, our opportunities for growth are not always welcomed by us. Well, that my not be the way it was said, but that's the way it is for me. I usually don't like "learning experiences", but I am grateful for them when they are passed. I didn't like the first thirty days of giving up alcohol, but I am extremely grateful for it now. Life is tough. Bumper Sticker: 'Reality is for people who can't handle alcohol or drugs'.
I tend to ramble, so I end by saying that I'm very grateful that Rich put this URL on his post at another site so that I could find you.
I can't stay sober, but we can.
Curtis
Member: Tim Rosaaen
Location: Healdsburg, CA
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 8:45:19 PM
Hi; I'm Tim Rosaaen an alcoholic and considered an old timer by others. Lee Ellen the truth you must be seeing by now is that; you do not have to be alone in your grief. My prayer for you is a safe/sober journey from "profound sadness" to "fond rememberances".
Member: Corinne B.
Location: Camino, CA
Date: 7/3/01
Time: 9:08:54 PM
Thanks for the topic, Lee Ellen. I don't get the extra computer time each week to get over here in time to share on discussions anymore, but was evidently supposed to be here today.
I'm just in the beginning phases of dealing with the potential death of my husband. We found out he had lung cancer last Fall. He had the lung removed in November and we thought he was cancer free until about a week ago. The doctors now say he has incurable lung cancer that has metasticized out to other parts of his body - in his case to lymph nodes and skin. He'll start Chemo in about 3 weeks or so, but the Oncologist said, aside from the fact that Bob is otherwise healthy, it would still take a miracle. He also said thatt Bob is just the sort of person to lick this thing, so who knows?
I'm gonna tell you how he's handling it. He's out back right now transforming a dog kennel into a potting shed. He says "I'm not dead 'til I'm dead, and I'm not dead, yet." He's in a lot of pain all throughout his back, yet he goes on to do the things he wants to do in life. It's actually easier on me to be mad at him at times, rather than feel the love I have for him, because when I am mad, then I don't get sad, but when I feel the love for him so strong, I ache inside thinking about possibly losing him sooner than I would have dreamed.
I'm not sure how I'm handling it because it is all so new to me, but over the past 6 months, we've had some very tense times, and through it all, I've known that everything is going to be just as it should be. We've taken care to be sure his one daughter and ex-wife knows what to expect when he gets too sick to work anymore and what will happen when he dies. We've worked out everything with an estate attorney and he's instructed me about how certain financial matters will be carried out, so I won't have to make decisions, just make phone calls to get those things taken care of. These things have meant that I can free my mind to just enjoy the time we do have together.
I've got a friend in the program who also works with Hospice, so I know that if that time comes, at least I won't feel like I'm in the hand of strangers. Most of all, I know that God doesn't expect me to handle any of this alone, so it will never be more than I can handle, because there will always be people that I can reach out to who will be here to help me whenever I say the word.
I've been in that place you describe when I was first getting sober again this last (and hopefully final) time. The way I got out of it was to get on with the steps. I had the weight of anxiety lifted from me once I realized that I had to get well in order to help other people get well - it was the 2nd part of that that really helped me realize I'd gotten "it." That magical "it" that I'd missed in my former sobriety. I know that God's will for me is to be happy, joyous and free; when I'm not those things, I'm sitting in my will, closing myself off. I'm the one doing that - me - I had to realize that it was me who was holding on to all of my depression, anxiety, worry and self-doubt, and I had to take a leap of faith that God and the AA Program would relieve me of all that, so long as I was willing to do a few simple things - like the rest of the Steps. The answer was always within me, but the Steps were the vehicle to finally find the answer. I had six years sober once before and never found this answer, because I'd never truly worked the steps.
Also, I would like to add that I am comforted knowing that Bob won't die alone, like my next door neighbor just did. The Sheriff's Deputies came here just yesterday asking if we had seen him, 'cuz the bartender from the place he did all his daily drinking called the Sheriff's office saying they were concerned because they hadn't seen Mr. G. in a few days. Our neighbor evidently fell off his bed in a drunken stupor and died. He died that horribly painful death that so many alcoholics die behind. I'm fairly certain that I won't die a death like that, either, not so long as I keep Step 11 alive in my life, along with Step 12, as well.
Member: gil
Location: Texas
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 12:47:38 AM
Hi, I'm gil, an alcoholic. Thank you for bringing up this topic. My husband died one year ago in June. It still hurts. He was Mr.AA in our town. I didn't go to meetings because our house was a meeting 24/7. He always had new pukes (as he lovingly called them) living with us. So I lived the AA program every day. We had been together for 6 of my 11 years of sobriety. He had 13 years when he died. I've tried to get involved with meetings and the group. I know that is the answer. 90 in 90 is also some good advice.
Every time I think I'm getting better I get right back on my pity pot. I'm still sober through the Grace of God. You are all in my prayers. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 2:25:07 AM
Hi, I am Jack, a real alcoholic. Bad times is just a side of life on God's terms that I have to accept and deal with. When things are going good, even I can handle it, but when bad times kick in, I have to remember that God doesn't give me anything more than I can handle in a 24hr day.My former sponsor used to tell me that when adversity sets in, God either believes I am strong enough to handle it, or he is trying to make me stronger. There isn't anything that can possibly come into my life that the steps cannot help me to deal with For me the steps means=solution to very problem sober.When I was growing up, my Aunt Mary used to tell me that someday I would have to learn the A,B,C's of life. Adversity Builds Character. Thanks for allowing me to share and God Bless
Member: robert
Location: sunporch
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 7:57:31 AM
At the shelter for teenagers where I "work" we tell the kids they need to take responsibility for they're behaviours, as an adult the same rules apply to me, I also tell the kids that just because someone is older, that does'nt make them any wiser, usually all we have is more of lifes experiences to learn by..I am embarassed to tell you that this alcoholic can be a slow learner...but you know what makes life worthwhile ?, I am OK with me, and I can make sense out of the grief,sorrow and loss that I sometimes have to face, just buried a good friend, she showed me how to treat people like PEOPLE, pastor said "she fought the good fight"....later.
Member: Steve K.
Location: Swan Lake, N.Y.
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 9:35:40 AM
Steve alcoholic, i have been sober for 8 months. When something comes up that i think i can not deal with, i think about before i was sober and how i dealt with it then by using alcohol to fix my problems. Now i have AA and my HIGHER POWER and things seem to work out for the better. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: AB
Location: Iceland
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 2:34:59 PM
Hi my name is Asa and im an alcoholic. My dad died when I had been sober for three years and it was very difficult for me. He was a AA member not in recovery and took his own life. I got a lot of help from my sponsor. I started to work the steps for the first time and it helped me alot. We all go through a period of difficult times and that is when we need to use what we have learned in the program. Before I would have wanted a drink, but that was the last thing i thought about. Today I dont resent those difficult times. They make me stronger if i go through them and they give me a oppertunity to help others. Im just very graitful for AA.
Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas )between the Alamo and San Jacinto
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 7:42:09 PM
Bad times came when I was drinking...I'm Curtis, and a real alkie. My life is far from perfect, but it's sober and it's real. Just wanted to check in today and read the posts.
Have a great 4th my friends, Curtis tiger@selectrec.net
Member: Myrtle L
Location: Lowell,nc
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 10:41:33 PM
My name is Myrtle LaVoie and I am a grateful recovered alcoholic.
My heart goes out to the newcomer and to those who have suffered losses. My mother died when I was 1 year sober. (My sobriety date is Dec. 11,1978). I heard someone else in a meeting in Waterbury Ct say her mother, who had just passed away, was only gone for one day. I could handle one day. This cut my grief down tremendously to manageable proportions. I'm going on the premise that others want to find ways to ease pain. I learned that the Steps must be my pain relievers instead of booze.
Pain is the touchstone of spiritual progress. It has already been said that character is developed in what and how I suffer.
In sobriety I have faced my own mortality twice and both times trusted God. If I died, I told myself, I would die sober. I have lost jobs only to have them replaced with better jobs. When I was drunk I used people. In sobriety I learned to love with an open hand. God has moved people in and out of my life as He saw fit. I must admit that some had claw marks on them because of my reluctance to LET GO, but after walking through the pain sober, I could always see the loving hand of God on my life which causes me to trust and love Him more.
The quicker I can "Let Go & Let God", the quicker I can get emotional sobriety. This comes as a direct result of practicing the 11th step, looking for the miracles. It is never too early for the newcomer to start looking for the miracles. All who didn't pick up a drink today are miracles. God loves you and I do, too. May your fourth be blessed. myrtlelavoie@aol.com
Member: Elisabeth
Location: IA
Date: 7/4/01
Time: 10:43:44 PM
Hi, I'm Elisabeth, a recovering alcoholic. This is my first visit to an online meeting, and I am so, so grateful. My sponsor of many years just moved a thousand miles away, and I have been feeling that distance. Yes, I have good new support in the program. But I have been so nourished in my recovery just reading these postings. Thanks for the topic. Thanks for being here.
Member: Jeff
Location: Australia
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 1:51:49 AM
Hi my name is Jeff and I am an alcoholic. A topic I can't really relate to yet. I've been sober 3 years and so far nothing has come my way that has really rocked me. The other day though, I had my first argument with my first sponsee and I've been replaying in my mind the things he said, the things I said, should have said, and shouldn't have said. I've been trying to hand it over. We were going through the Big Book, following the instructions a page a day as my sponsor showed me. I began to fear that he was starting to go off and do his own thing so I tried to pull him up and an argument insued. He hasn't contacted me since and it has been playing on my mind. I know it's not my fault if he drinks as I did the very best I could do on any given day. I pray for his well being.
Member: Bruce G
Location: Memphis
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 2:00:25 AM
IB Bruce, alcoholic Something comes along just about every day that I would prefer not to have to endure, but I try to remember that those things are as much a part of life as the good things that come my way. I got an inspiration from an Al-Anon bookmark that my wife gave me to use as I was on my way to do some jail time for DWI. It says "Just for today....I can do something that I would prefer not to, if it were up to me.....Just for today". It's that "One day at a time" thing! We just have to try to live today as best we can, and if our burden is heavy today, try to remember that we need not carry it alone, and have faith that soon our load will be lightened.....in the time that it takes.
Member: Jack B
Location: Palo Alto, Pa
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 2:56:39 AM
Hi I am Jack, a real alcoholic. To LeeEllen. There are days in all our lives no matter how much time we have sober, that the best thing we can do is just not pick up the first drink. For me there are days when its like God WHO? What Twelve Steps. I lost my mother to Alszheimers and cancer, My nephew was diagnosed with terminal leukemia, seven of my neighbors lost their homes in a large fire,this all occured in a very short space of time in 1996.The thought to drink wasn't there, that was not an option. I went thru the gauntlet of emotions, anger towards God, self pity, loneliness, you name it I went thru it.Its only human to fell hurt, anger etc. They told me early on in sobriety don't worry about getting in touch with your feelings, they will get in touch with you.They sure did, and still do.The quickest way out for me has always been to work with another alcoholic. For some reason when I reach out my hand to help another, the burden of my load seems to get lighter. God Bless you and don't give up.
Member: The crazy world of Avril G
Location: Belgium via Barnsley UK
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 7:48:21 AM
Great topic LeeEllen, though I was saddened to hear you say that old-timers don't seem to share their bad times in meetings. I am so grateful that I cannot relate to that bit, since in all the meetings I have been to, I have found pure, gut-level honesty, happiness, sadness and pain shared from newcomers and old-timers alike. Try sharing YOUR crap in a meeting, and see what a knock-on effect it has.
A little over a year ago, I doubted that I would see my 10th soberversary. My relationship had just gone down the pan, and I had to flee what I called 'home' with a couple of bin liners full of clothes and nothing else!! I was so fortunate that a girl I knew offered myself and my daughter rooms in her house until we found somewhere to stay. I was devastated!! Talk about hitting rock bottom in sobriety. I had huge debts, due to this guy's actions, in fear of my safety (he was violent, and also tried his damndest to get me drunk by spiking my coffee with vodka, believing that Vodka couldn't be detected by smell!!) I felt suicidal, desperate and ALONE.
I stayed away from meetings, couldn't cope with the pain of being seen, almost 10 years sober in such a mess. (Pride's a killer!!) Only thing I didn't do was drink!! I DID PRAY, however, and during a moment of meditation and prayer, and on my knees in front of a mirror, I saw the same face looking back at me that looked back at me almost 10 years before, the same face which got me to the telephone to call AA. I picked up the phone, and the women in AA just picked me up and carried me to meetings, and OH BOY did I ever cry in meetings!! I sometimes ran out of meetings in floods of tears, BUT always someone followed me, reassuring me, comforting me, loving me and assuring me, "Avril, you are NOT going to die, even if it feels like you are"
I did 2-3 meetings daily, and once I felt well enough, I started to do the necessary action to get us out of that town and back to my original hometown, and I got the same love and support from the AA members there. I also found such wonderful love and support from my fellow alkies on line, especially the ones from this site.
Next Wednesday (July 11th) I am astounded that I will (God willing) celebrate 11 years of sobriety. I left everything I had ever owned in that town, not daring to go back to collect the stuff. I have had to seek help for the debts, which I am paying off in tiny amounts, but the creditors are happy I am paying something.
At the first meeting I cried and shared at after hitting this rock bottom, I met a woman who had drank again just over 10 years sober on a broken relationship. I also met a guy who was 4 years sober and living on the streets!!! Also a girl who was still living with friends following a really messy divorce, and she had also lost most of her possessions!! I WAS HOME, NOT alone at all, but in the midst of a wonderful fellowship of men and women, who just like me had lived through the hard parts. Members offered me somewhere to stay if I needed a bolthole. Without AA, I would have been dead, I am sure.
I now see that what happened THEN was necessary for me to get to what I am today, which is Happy, Joyous and Free, loved and in love with a wonderful guy, in a new country, new AA, new life, BUT I had to lose the old one before all of this could come about. I have had many bad times in recovery, BUT I stayed sober (not sane or serene, but sober)
SO, scream and cry, rant and rave, BUT DON'T drink on it, whatever it is. It COULD be that God has something in mind for you which is bigger and better than anything you have ever imagined, but you have to let go of the old life in order to be able to live the new one in peace, love and harmony with others.
I AM A GRATEFUL ALCOHOLIC TODAY
If anyone wishes to share via e-mail, feel free to mail me, I have LOTS of experience of bad times, BUT drink won't stop that.
DON'T drink, and get to meetings, AND share the bad times as well as the good, it does everyone a gross misjustice if we share only the good bits of our recovery.
goodallavril@hotmail.com
Member: Jim P.
Location: Whitney, TX
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 11:24:13 AM
I had to bury my father last month. Had the full range of emotions, all boiling down to fear, since he'd always been my father, and I was suddenly without him. Used the inventory from the kit of spiritual tools, learned where I was angry, afraid, in need of some boost to my self esteem, apprehensive that my personal relations with someone else would be disrupted, and the like. I won't say that I liked it, but I will say that I got over it and got to feeling different enough that it wasn't necessary to adjust my feelings with a jug. Love, Jim P.
Member: Curtis
Location: L
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 11:42:57 AM
Hi friends, Curtis here, a grateful alkie from Texas. Enjoyed reading the new posts today, and I thought of one thing I wanted to share.
Prior to AA, I didn't have a clue as to how to have a healthy relationship. I'd been in the same relationship for 26 years when I got sober, but she divorced me 18 months later. I didn't drink, but I married again to another one just like her. Both of us were less than 2 years sober, and clueless on healthy relationships. Ten meetings a week weren't uncommon for me then. We tried counseling (also had marriage counseling prior to first divorce), but after four years, I had to let go. I told her that I didn't want to stay to the point that I resented her. I felt like a hostage, and I'd volunteered for the job. Decades of drinking and no divorces; six years sober and two divorces. But, I was learning by my mistakes. Donna and I have been married for nearly ten years, and we don't go to marriage counseling. We both work our program of Live and Let Live. She had 15 years sober on July 1 and I had 16 on May 4. We have had some MAJOR losses during our time together, but we do not drink. We pray, we scream/shout/cuss and cry, but we don't drink. I haven't been to see my mother in three years. Her body was extremely healthy when she was diagnosed with Alzheimers about ten years ago. Her behavior now is that of a three month old baby. Her body keeps functioning, but she's been gone for about four years. My dad died last year. My wife was crippled by back surgeries in 1994. The list goes on and on. But it's just real life. I have many health problems, of my own making due to the life I chose to live for so long. Just the way it is.
Today, I am sober. I have a roof over my head, and food to eat. I have a real partner. I have an AA family, and I have the Grace of God.
I'm grateful. Curtis tiger@selectrec.net
Member: ML
Location: San Diego
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 11:59:50 AM
Hi,
It sounds like Lee Ellen is in mourning. That empty feeling, when it feels like God just isn't hearing you, that you can't hear or feel God and the connection just isn't happening, can be really hard. I'm no one to talk, I guess. I've been sober on and off for 15 years and I came to this site today because I feel I must do some new things in order to keep my sobriety this time. I moved here to San Diego from NYC 11 years ago and have never liked program here (I had nearly four years when I moved here, the most I've ever had). I believe that the 12-step programs can be miraculous, so my life has still been affected by any involvement I've had. I've gone to meetings for deaf people and gotten humility just be seeing how hard they work to stay sober. I tried to start a meeting like one I'd done a lot of service in, in NYC, in a hybrid program that doesn't exist here, called Sober ACA, for people who want to work on their childhood stuff as well as the steps. No one showed up, but I've kept trying. I started a meeting for women in another program that desperately needed a women's meeting. I know I need to stay sober for others... if I have trouble staying sober in this city, so must other artists and intellectuals. I don't relate to most people in meetings here. I'm not a Republican, I'm not on anti-depressants, and I don't think it's funny to have been in jail umpteen times (people were boasting about it at the meeting I attended last night). We also get a lot of people here who are at meetings to have their court slips for drunk driving signed. I know this may sound "negative" to a lot of people, but I need to get it out somewhere. I love the program itself and its essential message(s) of love, serenity and God- contact. And I know that I have to look at myself to stay sober. I was about to do my fourth step when I drank again two nights ago and I'm angry about that. I don't want to keep "falling off the horse" - no, one night of drinking isn't as bad a years of it, but it stopped my forward momentum for sure, and I know that God wants me to be sober. It's hard to say all this, it's hard to admit I drank. I may have to give up the man I love and am involved with, as I don't know if he'll ever be able to join me on this path, and I drank the other night because I couldn't "white-knuckle it" through another of his drunks, I'd been doing it for seven months. I love him but may have to let him go. I'm sad, weary and trying to get back to hope. I also have had a lot of loss in sobriety and I respect the heck out of the women who started this topic for staying sober through her pain. Perhaps she is questioning God about HOW these people died, or why... or maybe she just feels too drained to go "Rah, rah, rah." Me, I'm determined to start a meeting if I have to, for people who are artists in sobriety. And I'm hoping to meeting other women through this on-line forum who are artists in sobriety. Another problem with sobriety in San Diego is getting hit on by men in meetings, it happens all the time. Flirting and ribald comments don't make me want to stay sober - I don't know about you. That's not what I'm there for. It doesn't feel safe. It's the same kind of crap I'd run into in bars. Anyway, I went to a meeting last night and I'll go to another as soon as I can. I'll call my sponsor, who, by the way, has stayed sober for 28 years through the tragic deaths of her two sons and daughter-in-law and all kinds of stuff. She's amazing to me. A fount of strength. She has never let go of me, no matter what. I want to be there for other women, like that. I'm putting my hand out to other women a lot more than I used to. Lee Ellen, how are you doing now? I'd like to know. Me, I'm determined to stay sober a day at a time for the rest of my life. Drinking the other night with my fiance just took me back to hell. The disease IS progressive, i feel. I used to not understand that or like the word "disease." As a "periodic" I've had trouble relating to daily alcoholics and some of the stories, but it's the same disease, regardless. An overload, an inability to handle stress, a desire to escape what feel like insurmountable problems or stresses - this I have in common with other alcoholics. A childishness, a tendency to fall into being a "victim." Even though I was sexually abused and my family is alcoholic, I know that' a trap. But sobriety is for those who want it, not necessarily those who need it. Some people seem to hold onto it just 'cause it's become their identity, an ego thing. They say "I only have 20 years," but that feels like false modesty to me. Boy, am I letting it all out here! Probably inciting controversy. Well, if something I say bothers someone I invite them to find and admit the same, mirroring attitude in themselves about something. All I can say to the meeting's leader and everyone else is that the best things that have happened to me have happened in and because of recovery, that the spiritual path is hard at times but is the only way, once one has discovered it, and that everything passes (this too shall pass). If anyone (women) would like to start connecting in San Diego - not to have a "bitch session" but to create some new alternatives for staying sober in AA in San Diego, I'm totally open to that. In NYC I had lots of sober friends that I liked to hang out with but I'm not like a lot of people in AA meetings here. I don't know what else to say. Thank you for listening.
Member: Lavonne A
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 3:07:35 PM
Lavonne, alcoholic here. I've been following the shares all week on Lee Ann's chosen topic for us on "dealing in bad times." I have only learned HOW to cope since coming to Alcoholics Anonymous. Helping others, reaching out as I can, getting me out of me always seems to soothe and heal me. Sometimes, that is simply just being there. Like here now...I can only mostly echo what has already been said for this Discussion. But, it's important for my program to put my hand up and be among the numbers present and caring, sober and sharing. A long time ago, it was shared with me that I am doing 12th Step service work when I show up and share. Then I am being of service in the simplest of ways. Good things I have gotten from others comments this week: life on life terms has always and will always have moments of crap. But, one has to seek the non-crap out sometimes...look for it, focus on it, savor it, share it, believe in it, talk about it and trust it. I picked my sponsor based on the fact that SHE had been through a lot of hurts and scrapes and crap in life...and KEPT GOING WITHOUT DRINKING. That's the gig of all this for me. One other final point for me to note is this: it's all my Higher Power doing it. Not me. My Higher Power has a face and skin through each of you people. Thanks for that. I pass.
Member: Joe L.
Location: Phila., PA - USA
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 3:23:23 PM
Good Afternoon All; Joe here, definitely alcoholic. Hope everyone had a happy and healthy Fourth.
LeeEllen: Great Topic.
Charlie D: Keep up the good work.
Curtis L: Thanks for sharing.
Avril: Congratulations on your upcoming 11th.
Everyone else; Especially Danny F. & Donnie M., to me that's the magic of A.A. I think I get more strength from people sharing about their troubles, than I ever did the good stuff. Maybe I'm sick, but that's the way it works for me. Just like ML of San Diego, I can appreciate people trying hard. God Bless Us all. Peace, Out - Joe L.
LeachFtown@aol.com
Member: CHRIS H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 5:36:31 PM
Howdy all---chris here --alcoholic/addict/bulimic---Wonderful topic...I too am so glad to make hear about making it through the hard times. I am lucky enough to have a home group where they share the hard times with each other and learn together how to get through them. My favorite saying is " this too will pass". I don't have any real answers except that sharing with people who love you helps ease the burden..... I just got through going over some of my journals from '92-95 when I first got sober. It was interesting how tough my life was when I wasn't using. I had really covered the pain well with all of my drugs of choice. Without them I was a basket case. I am so much better now having spent 7 yerars in the program. However, life continues to be a struggle. I think that the difference now is that I know where to go for the answers. Sometimes I am not happy with the answers, but I have a basic confidence (Though sometimes I don't feel so confident) that thins will turn out well. I think that my basic problem is that I still need to really believe that God is good and wants the best for me. I have come so far in that belief, but all too often I forget that He wants the best for me, especially when whats best for me is a "no" answer to my prayer. I can be such a baby when I don't get what I want when I want it. It comes as a great comfort though to know that I am not alone in that feeling, and that that is just one more alcoholic trait that I can overcome with the help of my H.P. and the program of A.A. Well...thanks for letting me share. Even if it wasn't really on the topic, Mabey it will help somebody out there with their struggles.
Member: Kevin F
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 6:21:32 PM
Hello. My name is Kevin and I'm beginning to realize that I have a drinking problem. Two and a half years ago my Mom was diagnosed with a rare form of melanoma...a huge blow to me, she was the person that I was closest to in life. On Easter Sunday this year, she passed away. Over that two year period, I began to drink a lot more than I ever had in the past. Looking back, I realize that I was just covering up and masking my pain. It all seems so backwards as I am an athlete and fully realize how bad alcohol is for my body. The scary thing is that now when I drink, i just keep drinking and drinking. I can't account for time when I drink sometimes...and just today missed a few hours of work because of a fourth of July binge. Am I just prolonging the grieving process? Am I doing even more emotional damage? I think so. Today I am not going to drink, but I'm worried about tomorrow...I might miss my Mom and need to "relax" with a bottle of wine. That scares me now. I guess I could use some help. Thank you.
Member: Bonny G.
Location: Hot Springs, AR
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 6:21:59 PM
Thanks to all about the "bad times." I, too know only too well that times are tough, I've experienced some really tough times being sober, but with the grace of God and my friends in AA, today I stay sober in the bad and good times. Women's Meetings help me to handle the "emotions" that I feel, as a recovering alcoholic woman. I've often said women run off their emotions more than men. To the lady in San Diego; "your asking a man with no legs to carry you." This is what I was told by the women in my first AA group about my old guy. And they were right. Find a meeting were you feel good when you leave, visit around to some new ones. Pain is optional, and misery loves company, but company doesn't like misery. The lost of loved ones is real pain and it's called grief, being sober doesn't stop it. The time of your grief can be long or short, that's your option. I like to remember the good in others, even if I saw a lot of the bad in them. I've got a choice today, I don't have to drink over situations, but I do have to live through them. I'm grateful for my sobriety today, and I'm grateful to have a friend or two in AA that is willing to listen "when" I hurt. That's what friends are, some of us get that in the sponsor and some of us get that in fellow AA members. The 13th Step will always be found in AA; cause some people like to take a hostage when the bad times come. And some folks just can't deal with being alone. Thanks for allowing me to share.
Member: Cherie S.
Location: Southern Maine
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 8:48:58 PM
Hi all, CHerie alcoholic from Maine....Ilost my dad when I ws 18 months sober. I used the fellowship of AA to hold me together. My sponsor let me cry when I needed to. I went to meetings no matter how I looked or how I felt.
My sponsor took me three hours by car to see my dad just before he died. I got to laugh with him and cry with him SOBER. I look at this opportunity as an unwarranted GIFT to me. I am not supposed to pay it back but instead help others when I have my shit together more.
I have been through some scary life stuff and I have help several other recovering alcoholics through some stuff including cancer treatments and family deaths. I have only been sober 2159 days (in a row) today. I have come a long way and have a long way to go yet. I don't dare NOT go to meetings. I know of too many people who ended up drunk and sicker than before because they backed off from meetings and got too busy with life.
It is so much easier to STAY sober today than to GET sober tomorrow.
Keep it simple but do the footwork necessary.
thanks for being here all this time AA
Cher
Member: Richard W.
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 10:27:09 PM
Hi, My name's Richard, and I'm an alcoholic. This is my first time in this meeting, let me first tsay how lucky I feel to have found it. LeeEllen, thank you for the topic, an dthank you to everyone who shared.
I'm fairly new (9 months) in recovery, and I haven't yet had to face some of the earth-shattering losses that some of you have. I have, however recently smacked face first into my own experience of loss and grief.
You know, when I first was attempting (and failing) to stay sober, I had the idea that if I could only quit drinking, that life would turn into the final reel of a Walt Disney movie. Where everyone is happy and healthy, justice prevails, and the good guy gets the girl.
I found out it just ain't so. For me, the rude awakening was being fired from a job that I absolutely loved, A job that I put my heart into and looked forward to each day. It happened about 3 weeks ago, and I'm still not fully over it. I know I should jump back on the horse and get to work again, but I haven't. I sleep too late, watch too much TV, eat too much, and generally show some of the classic signs of situational depression.
I know that the answer for me lies in continuing to go to meetings, work with my sponsor, pray, and not give in to the old voices that tell me I got fired because I'm worthless, incompetent or no good. I also didn't get fired because God is "testing" me, as one friend suggested. My GOd doesn't work like that.
Even sober, bad painfull things will happen in my life. But sober, I have caring supportive friends, a program of action, and most important a loving, caring higher power who will ALWAYS, give me the serenity, courage, and wisdom I need to make it through each day, just for the asking.
Thanks for letting me share, and God bless. Richard W. Santa Rosa, CA rwalden@sonic.net
Member: Leah S.
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Date: 7/5/01
Time: 10:39:33 PM
Hi, Leah S. addict/alcoholic,
I can relate to this...death. My fiance's was shot and killed over 7years ago. That is when my addiction really became active. Now, I lost three family members within the last three months. It is hard to let go at times. I have moved, had a change in jobs,and decreased pay. I would like to say that serenity is within me, but at times I feel it going, slipping. I just starting hanging out again with my friends, but had to cut a lot of them go because they drink. At work....it seems like I have a problem with control. I used to be the worst control freak and thought that I worked through it. I had to increase my meetings and begin reading my first three steps again to "let go let God." The funniest comment I had this week was that one of my friends said I was the strongest and most normal person she has known in a long time. I feel like this disease takes time...a daily process to work through so that I don't get caught up in the chaos around me. And death can cause the chaos, depression, and feelings that I avoided long ago. I am glad to face them now instead of avoiding it by using. I just don't like the sadness. I wonder how "normal" people cope? Then again, I think that I am finding out by facing it now. Thank you for letting me share.
Member: Mark W.
Location: St. Louis
Date: 7/6/01
Time: 7:23:39 AM
Richard, I, too lost the job I loved. I started there when I was twenty one. I am fourty eight now. This was a blow, but the HP was taking care of me, I just did not recognize the fact. My wife had asked for a divorce last August, which was also a blow, as I loved her, and her daughter, dearly. In the past, I may not have noticed either much, as I would have stayed drunk until I ran out of money. There was a large settlement from the high tech employer I gave my life to. It is now 11 months since my daughter had moved in with me and my wife. She will be eighteen in August. I had to tell her about her (very loved) stepmother and I. She just told me that perhaps GOD had put her there for a reason, and she would be staying with me. My divorce is final, and my ex and I both got to go away whole. I have a paid for house, and she is soon to have enough money to buy a like house with a single check, outright. A new employer contacted me, when they found out I was unemployed. I make less, but I am working. So what's the point? HP does take care of us. I choose to call the HP GOD. The attitude shift that this program has brought over me is a surprise to me to this day. In the past I was full of resentments, and I am sure I would be miserable today. As I now live, I am thankful, as HP has given me the money to care for everything I needed, and my ex wife as well. The fact is that everything worked out just fine, because I did not try to control anything. I just observed it happening. The final kicker to all the above is that yesterday, in the financial news, I noted that my former employer sold the division I worked for. What that means to me is that had I still been there, I would not have gotten the great package that while gone now, has allowed so many (ex wife, me, daughter)to be so well off. Is there a point here somewhere? Certainly, Let Go, Let GOD. I did, and am living the result of the same. Mark, a grateful, recovering alcoholic. By the way, from a recovering alcoholic that is just beggining to "get it", the difference between a Walt Disney movie, and a Steven King movie, is all in the people's attitudes, period. the attitude shift this program has brought me has been a life saver. Mark LMW007aol.com
Member: Lionel-C
Location: Campbelltown Australia
Date: 7/6/01
Time: 6:54:18 PM
hello everyone my names lionel i am an alcoholic LeeEllen my prayers are with you.and your loss.i to have lost 3 members of my family since i've been in recovery.Mother /Father and younger Brother my Father only last week'and it is hard.my life is full of emotional highs and lows .but how gratefull i am to have this program.and a loving God i still don't understand at times.i can't say more rigth now except i'm gatefull your here aand all my spiritual brothers and sisters in the program.God bless ..united we stand devided we stagger.lionel-c
Member: colo bob
Location:
Date: 7/6/01
Time: 10:12:13 PM
in responce do old timers go thru bad times.i have beensober for over 24 years and whithout a doubt i say hell yes oldtimers go thru bad times
Member: LeeEllen
Location: MI
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 10:21:57 AM
Again, I'm sorry for another post. LeeEllen here and a grateful recovering alcoholic. I've read wonderful things here --- things from the "gut" that I don't hear in meetings.
I have almost 8 years sober, so I'm not a newcomer (so to speak) but I'm certainly not an old-timer and I have much to learn. I'm so very grateful for all of you sharing your own rough times in sobriety without throwing out all the cliches that I hear at meetings. Sometimes, those cliches just don't work --- other times, they're gems. Thank you all. And thanks for indulging me in more than one post. God Bless. Peace, LeeEllen
Member: pecos bill
Location:
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 1:50:21 PM
the sheep are scared of cowboys in montana
Member: elmer bigdick
Location:
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 3:13:14 PM
kill the wabbit now elmer fudd says so kill the wabbit now that dirty waskle
Member: Jan S
Location: Alabama
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 3:24:13 PM
leeellen, I've been sober for 10 years and have hit a few of "those times" when it doesn't seem to make a "difference" what I do...I just feel like nothing is gratifying. Just "keep trudging the road to happy destiny" as the big book tells us. I have also found that opening myself up to sponsor more or service work to be of benefit during trying situations. Nothing keeps me out of me better than helping others. And for me, I found that during the times that I have done the foot work, and didn't seem to get any results I would pour my heart out to my higher power who I choose to call God. Just as I would tell him that I couldn't accept any more, things would turn around for me. Surrender. It works. Love, peace and serenity...
Member: Tommy
Location: Georgia
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 4:45:20 PM
HEY YALL This is great! I just found this site. I understand all too well that pain of losing someone.my mother killed herself a little over a year ago.this almost killed me as I went back to drinking hard almost dieing from it.it has taken TIME-A lot of time for me to come to even a little bit of grips with it in my mind. Thanks all for being here.i will be back
Member: M. ANONYMOUS
Location: CANADA
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 6:58:30 PM
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE THEIR PROBLEMS IN SOBRIETY. I HAVE BEEN TO SO MANY MEETINGS WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE THE ODD ONE OUT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE THANKFUL. THANKS FOR SO MANY PEOPLE SHOWING ME THAT IT'S NOT ALWAYS A PIECE OF CAKE ONCE YOU GET SOBER. PERHAPS THIS WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE THIS TIME FOR ME, AS I AM COMING BACK FOR WHO KNOWS HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE COME BACK. I HAVE AGAIN 7 DAYS AGAIN. IT IS SO HARD TO KEEP GOING BACK INTO THOSE ROOMS NOT ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE DO TEND TO NOT LISTEN ANYMORE BUT ALSO YOU GIVE UP ON YOURSELF. FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO SLIP AND SLIDE A HELL OF A LOT I FEEL THIS SITE IS AWESOME. IT'S NOT THAT I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEETINGS ANY MORE, I DO BUT YOU CAN'T BLAME PEOPLE FOR GIVING UP ON YOU. I JUST KEEP TRYING NOT TO GIVE UP ON MYSELF. ANY ADVICE OUT THERE?
Member: Tommy
Location: GA
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 8:09:14 PM
HEY YALL M. ANONYMOUS - I know what you mean. On of the reasons that I about stopped going to AA meetings is because it did not matter who talked-they were happy-free and had found god.no one ever seemed to have any problems and if you talk about yours-you are told well go to more meetings or you are not working the steps right. thanks
Member: MARK K.
Location: SALEM OREGON
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 9:01:40 PM
I FIND THAT NOW THAT I DONT DRINK,LIFE IS BORING,NOTHING IS FUN ANYMORE,I THINK ILL GO BACK TO DRINKING TOMORROW............THEN AGAIN MAYBE NOT,WELL AT LEAST I DONT END UP IN JAIL LIKE I USED TO ALL THE TIME.BUT I SURE DO MISS ALL THE WOMEN AND SLUTS AT THE BAR I USED TO HOOK UP WITH,THEY SURE LIKED SEX.WELL ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR HOOKING UP WITH WOMEN WHO DONT DRINK IF I CONTINUE TO STAY SOBER?THERE DONT SEEM TO BE ANY SINGLE WOMEN OUT THERE WHO DONT PARTY AND DRINK.
Member: MARK K.
Location: SALEM OREGON
Date: 7/7/01
Time: 9:01:59 PM
I FIND THAT NOW THAT I DONT DRINK,LIFE IS BORING,NOTHING IS FUN ANYMORE,I THINK ILL GO BACK TO DRINKING TOMORROW............THEN AGAIN MAYBE NOT,WELL AT LEAST I DONT END UP IN JAIL LIKE I USED TO ALL THE TIME.BUT I SURE DO MISS ALL THE WOMEN AND SLUTS AT THE BAR I USED TO HOOK UP WITH,THEY SURE LIKED SEX.WELL ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR HOOKING UP WITH WOMEN WHO DONT DRINK IF I CONTINUE TO STAY SOBER?THERE DONT SEEM TO BE ANY SINGLE WOMEN OUT THERE WHO DONT PARTY AND DRINK.
Member: KEVIN P
Location: CT.
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 12:14:53 AM
THIS IS NEW TO ME. MY NAME IS KEVIN AND I'M AN ALCOHOLIC. I HAVE BEEN TO REHAB, I'VE DONE MY MEETINGS AND SOME HOW I MANAGE TO GO BACK TO DRINKING. CALL IT NO WILL POWER,I DON'T KNOW.MY WIFE CALLED ME A COWARD TONIGHT AND I THINK I HAVE HIT ROCK BOTTTOM. NEVER HAVE I FELT LIKE THAT BEFORE.TEN YEARS OF MARRAGE WITH THIS WOMAN AND I TAKE HER FOR GRANTED. SHE DESERVES BETTER AND SO DO THE KIDS. ITS KILLING ME TO THINK I COULD LOSE MY FAMILY TO AN ILLNESS LIKE THIS, ILLNESS OR JUST A LACK OF WILLPOWER ON MY PART. I DONT KNOW IF THIS WAS THE RIGHT PLACE TO DISCUSS THIS BUT I HAD TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST. THANKS
Member: Curtis L
Location: Goliad, Texas
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 1:00:00 AM
WOW-What a diverse bunch of comments. That's real life. Some positive and some not so positive. My name is Curtis and I'm an alcoholic and other things. My life is neither great nor horrible,but it is real and has been for the 16 years that I've been sober. Rigorous honesty is really called for in recovery. It's not fun, but it does set you free. Today, I'm not willing to give up my freedom to choose. Some days I'm a real nice guy and some days I'm an asshole, but I'm responsible for my actions and accept the consequences of same. I still need meetings, and I usually hear what I need to hear. I've very grateful for people coming back and telling me that drinking again didn't solve their problems. My diseased mind still suggests that to me at times. I'm also grateful to hear about good things happening to people in recovery. I've had an equal mix. Lots of tough stuff and some really nice things. That's life. I had more material stuff when I was drunk, but I have more peace of mind now. Thank you, I'll take the serenity.
I'm very reluctant to tell a new person that things are going to get better. They are going to be different. If you stay sober, work the steps, and grow spiritually, then probably you'll have more inner peace, but you may go bankrupt in the material world.
That's just the way it is with me today. Thanks for all the posts and comments. I need to hear all of them. It's like at night; I thank God for the good things he has granted me that day, and the "seemingly" bad. The number one good thing is my physical soberity. If I lose it, then the rest doesn't matter. tiger@selectrec.net
Member: Glen
Location: Ontario Canada
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 11:34:57 AM
Bad Times - - Soberity Topic - - Lee Sob.date 04/15/86 Glen Trust God-Clean House-Help Others. for me I have been taught that there is always someone somewhere that is in worse shape then me .Take a walk through the hospitals, cancer wards,new babies born defective,what can I do right now to lighten their load.A smile ,a cup of coffee, read a letter,the list goes on .What can I give instead of whats in it for me.Talk to my sponsor, use the phone.for me to get out of me .Serenity Prayer write it out underline the key words .I was given a gift today another day ,a beautiful day to enjoy .what can I do about my problems right now??Program of action.We all have something to ofter.I believe our greatest gift is to give of ourself,listen take time for another .The gift of ourself. Practical Experience shows that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive works with other alcoholics.It works when other activities fail Glen
Member: Dana W
Location: Texas
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 12:29:23 PM
Dana here, alcoholic and other things.
I too have wondered why the meetings just have cliches and slogans as words of advice for hard times. I have only 75 days sober and am mostly listening now.
There have been people telling their story at meetings. But I am beginning to find out that for me, the specific stuff comes out privately between two people.
Even alcoholics with a long sobriety time must have days when they can't allow themselves to get bummed out by somebody negative. The meetings at least welcome newcomers and show them that others are hanging in. I am so grateful that a few people have reached out to me and are strong enough to take my sour attitude and self pity!
I have gotten to the point of just asking somebody what to do, and then do it. I have no control over my will, rather I can Will that I will do something and then I don't. Surrender is what this is.
Member: Waiting
Location: Patiently
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 1:30:18 PM
What time does this start over?
Member: Wm O
Location: Macks Inn Id
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 4:07:01 PM
Hi Im Bill Alcoholic I like the coment lost my verve. Im only 11m 24 days clean and sober.I lost a little brother the lady who raised me and went through a divorce. All within 2 years.I lost pretty much everyone I Identefied as family. No sweat I just drank and drugged .I finally lost my wana was physicaly and emotionaly drained.God put people in my path they directed me to AA. I had a hard time believing these people had what they profesed to have. Some hard core big book thumpers had me cornerd my first meeting.One guy was telling me I had to do this and that and was realy controlling.Im glad some of the others caught me latter, told me to just for now take what you need keep coming back.Because the only thing I figured I was gonna get outta AA was a cult deprogrammer.My mother who had diserted me as a baby is terminally Im due for some scary medical procedures also.It makes tears come to my eyes the way these AA people have gotten deep enough into my personel life. They have eased a lot of pain. The let me know Im not alone if I dont want to be.They let me know I deserve and can have love and peace and some of the good stuff. I can never repay them. May you find it also. Love Bill
Member: FOREVER AND A DAY
Location: TEE HE HE HE
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 5:35:21 PM
WHAT TIME DOES THIS START OVER,IT DOSENT IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON AND ON............
Member: BINGO WAS HIS NAME OH
Location:
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 5:36:47 PM
YIPPIE YI YA COMO TALLY VOO
Member: george b.
Location: dc
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 5:53:04 PM
the devil went down to georgia,he was lookin for a soul to steal............
i see dead people
Member: Carol
Location: MN
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 6:12:30 PM
Hi, Carol here. For several days I have had a desire to unburden myself of negative feelings about death. Usually I post on the CP but have been afraid to express negative things there for fear of attack so I came to this site and low and behold the very topic I have been burdened with is up front and being discussed openly. Thanks to my HP.
About 10 years ago I was in a car accident with severe injuries that spurred my Post Polio Syndrome to progress at a very rapid rate. Also the reason it was finally diagnosed as in the past when the doctors couldn't come up with reasons for my symptoms, the old stand by, it must be all in your head. Depression causes pain, etc. Well since then I have been in some very good programs that have taught me just the opposite. Pain causes depression as it burns all the little guys out of your brain that make one feel good. Unfortunately I have tried multiple medications with disastrous side effects so have to fight this on my own, with varying results, usually winning in the summertime and losing in the wintertime. Exercise greatly increases the pain and loss of mobility as the nerves are dying and leaving me in much worse condition than the original polio.
The losses just keep adding up. First my job. now I am at a point where most of my mobility is gone and i need assistance to get around. I was newly divorced when I came into the program and I too had a really bad time with guys hitting on me. Well miracle of miracles! I went through some rather intense counseling when I sobered up for around 4 years that included body language being about 80% of communication. When I cleaned up my body language and quit giving out the signals, I'm available, I'm easy, the guys went away. Sometimes I wonder if I still got it as they went away so completely, but not enough to put myself through that again by starting to play games just to find out.
I entered into a relationship newly sober (this is out of sequence, mind is rambling) that lasted for several years with a person who was on psychotic medication. I was so dumb!!! reealy dumb about medication and had not a clue what psychotic meant. Well he was doing so well, had been maintaining really well for several years so the doctor decided to take him off his medication. I thought, no big deal, sober up, get of mind altering medications and live happily ever after. Was I in for a wake up call. He went totally psychotic, delusions he was Jesus Christ, got violent, tried to kill me but that was ok because he said when he wanted to he was JC he would just rise me from the dead, threatened to machine gun my whole family. I had to move out of my home into an apartment, where he broke in assualted me and held me hostage for hours. I was screaming for my life, Call 911 he's trying to kill me. The woman upstairs went outside so she wouldn't have to listen to me or get involved, Then later complained to the landlord about the noise from my apartment. Boy, did he get an earful from me. Anyway I finally got away when he was distracted for a moment and drove myself to the police station. It took going to the governers office to get him committed as all of the locals were terrified of him from past episodes. It took 12 policemen to get him into restraints and tranquilized. Then he kept walking away from the hospital which as less than a mile from my house. Stalked me for years. When I remarried we moved out in the country. It has stopped for now, but who knows if he will find me again.
About five years ago I lost my mother. She had left home to work when I was 3 years old. Taught school in a one room school house and was required to board where she taught, leaving me with 4 older brother, an abusive father and lots of hired men and funny old uncles to raise me. The abuse was physical, mental, emotional, sexual as well as deprivation of basic physical needs. Took many years of therapy to get through this in sobriety. Well when my mother lay dying, I got up on the bed and took her in my arms and told her all the things I needed to tell her, told her I forgave her and that she had suffered enough, it was time to let go and she died in my arms. Took me long enough, but I got the job done in the end. Never could have done that sober. My rational mind knows that she was escaping that abusive man who was my father but my emotional self never accepted that. So when she died I had to accept the fact that she could never be my mother as she was now gone forever. The grief was overwhelming.
That was only the first death. Next came my father-in-law, a year later my mother-in-law, my uncle, my husbands aunt, both of our families had raised a brothers children, so we each had brother/sister cousins, I lost a sister cousin, husband lost a sister cousin, my nephew committed suicide, about a year later my dearly beloved neice committed suicide, best friends of my daughter. It seemed as though the deaths would never quit. We were numb, couldn't get along, with my health failing I felt I had nothing to fight with, had a nervous collapse. We had finally bought our dream place in the country, woods, ponds, walking trails, plus barn and pasture for the horses. The gravel pit came and took our farm. Oh yes, we left "willingly" because if I stayed the diesel fumes and dust from the operation of the pit on two sides of me plus diesel trucks driving on the gravel road directly in front of my house would have killed me as my lungs are shot. We got adequate compensation to purchase a really beautiful new farm but it does not have any usable outbuildings and have had to pull up miles of old rusty wire, remove the fences from the old farm that we spent 3 years putting up and then put them back up at the new farm. The physical labor has taken a full 10 years off my life and left me basically unable to function as had no money left to hire any help. It was a humoungous job to move a working farm. It is only a miracle of God that my husband and I are still together. Thank God for all of you at this site and AA as a whole. I did not drink. But yes I was tempted. I ran for a meeting without hesitation. Every bit as fast and with as much enthusiam as I would have headed for the bar when I was drinking.
One thing that really bugs me though. People are always throwing that old saying when things are tough. God will never give you more than you can bear. Then will you please explain shy my nephew Mark, my neice Jenny and my friend Nancy committed suicide. Quite obviously they had more than they could bear. Thanks for listening or just scrolling past if I got too boring. Carol
Member: Carol
Location: MN
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 6:12:56 PM
Hi, Carol here. For several days I have had a desire to unburden myself of negative feelings about death. Usually I post on the CP but have been afraid to express negative things there for fear of attack so I came to this site and low and behold the very topic I have been burdened with is up front and being discussed openly. Thanks to my HP.
About 10 years ago I was in a car accident with severe injuries that spurred my Post Polio Syndrome to progress at a very rapid rate. Also the reason it was finally diagnosed as in the past when the doctors couldn't come up with reasons for my symptoms, the old stand by, it must be all in your head. Depression causes pain, etc. Well since then I have been in some very good programs that have taught me just the opposite. Pain causes depression as it burns all the little guys out of your brain that make one feel good. Unfortunately I have tried multiple medications with disastrous side effects so have to fight this on my own, with varying results, usually winning in the summertime and losing in the wintertime. Exercise greatly increases the pain and loss of mobility as the nerves are dying and leaving me in much worse condition than the original polio.
The losses just keep adding up. First my job. now I am at a point where most of my mobility is gone and i need assistance to get around. I was newly divorced when I came into the program and I too had a really bad time with guys hitting on me. Well miracle of miracles! I went through some rather intense counseling when I sobered up for around 4 years that included body language being about 80% of communication. When I cleaned up my body language and quit giving out the signals, I'm available, I'm easy, the guys went away. Sometimes I wonder if I still got it as they went away so completely, but not enough to put myself through that again by starting to play games just to find out.
I entered into a relationship newly sober (this is out of sequence, mind is rambling) that lasted for several years with a person who was on psychotic medication. I was so dumb!!! reealy dumb about medication and had not a clue what psychotic meant. Well he was doing so well, had been maintaining really well for several years so the doctor decided to take him off his medication. I thought, no big deal, sober up, get of mind altering medications and live happily ever after. Was I in for a wake up call. He went totally psychotic, delusions he was Jesus Christ, got violent, tried to kill me but that was ok because he said when he wanted to he was JC he would just rise me from the dead, threatened to machine gun my whole family. I had to move out of my home into an apartment, where he broke in assualted me and held me hostage for hours. I was screaming for my life, Call 911 he's trying to kill me. The woman upstairs went outside so she wouldn't have to listen to me or get involved, Then later complained to the landlord about the noise from my apartment. Boy, did he get an earful from me. Anyway I finally got away when he was distracted for a moment and drove myself to the police station. It took going to the governers office to get him committed as all of the locals were terrified of him from past episodes. It took 12 policemen to get him into restraints and tranquilized. Then he kept walking away from the hospital which as less than a mile from my house. Stalked me for years. When I remarried we moved out in the country. It has stopped for now, but who knows if he will find me again.
About five years ago I lost my mother. She had left home to work when I was 3 years old. Taught school in a one room school house and was required to board where she taught, leaving me with 4 older brother, an abusive father and lots of hired men and funny old uncles to raise me. The abuse was physical, mental, emotional, sexual as well as deprivation of basic physical needs. Took many years of therapy to get through this in sobriety. Well when my mother lay dying, I got up on the bed and took her in my arms and told her all the things I needed to tell her, told her I forgave her and that she had suffered enough, it was time to let go and she died in my arms. Took me long enough, but I got the job done in the end. Never could have done that sober. My rational mind knows that she was escaping that abusive man who was my father but my emotional self never accepted that. So when she died I had to accept the fact that she could never be my mother as she was now gone forever. The grief was overwhelming.
That was only the first death. Next came my father-in-law, a year later my mother-in-law, my uncle, my husbands aunt, both of our families had raised a brothers children, so we each had brother/sister cousins, I lost a sister cousin, husband lost a sister cousin, my nephew committed suicide, about a year later my dearly beloved neice committed suicide, best friends of my daughter. It seemed as though the deaths would never quit. We were numb, couldn't get along, with my health failing I felt I had nothing to fight with, had a nervous collapse. We had finally bought our dream place in the country, woods, ponds, walking trails, plus barn and pasture for the horses. The gravel pit came and took our farm. Oh yes, we left "willingly" because if I stayed the diesel fumes and dust from the operation of the pit on two sides of me plus diesel trucks driving on the gravel road directly in front of my house would have killed me as my lungs are shot. We got adequate compensation to purchase a really beautiful new farm but it does not have any usable outbuildings and have had to pull up miles of old rusty wire, remove the fences from the old farm that we spent 3 years putting up and then put them back up at the new farm. The physical labor has taken a full 10 years off my life and left me basically unable to function as had no money left to hire any help. It was a humoungous job to move a working farm. It is only a miracle of God that my husband and I are still together. Thank God for all of you at this site and AA as a whole. I did not drink. But yes I was tempted. I ran for a meeting without hesitation. Every bit as fast and with as much enthusiam as I would have headed for the bar when I was drinking.
One thing that really bugs me though. People are always throwing that old saying when things are tough. God will never give you more than you can bear. Then will you please explain shy my nephew Mark, my neice Jenny and my friend Nancy committed suicide. Quite obviously they had more than they could bear. Thanks for listening or just scrolling past if I got too boring. Carol
Member: Carol
Location: MN
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 6:15:01 PM
Hi, Carol here. For several days I have had a desire to unburden myself of negative feelings about death. Usually I post on the CP but have been afraid to express negative things there for fear of attack so I came to this site and low and behold the very topic I have been burdened with is up front and being discussed openly. Thanks to my HP.
About 10 years ago I was in a car accident with severe injuries that spurred my Post Polio Syndrome to progress at a very rapid rate. Also the reason it was finally diagnosed as in the past when the doctors couldn't come up with reasons for my symptoms, the old stand by, it must be all in your head. Depression causes pain, etc. Well since then I have been in some very good programs that have taught me just the opposite. Pain causes depression as it burns all the little guys out of your brain that make one feel good. Unfortunately I have tried multiple medications with disastrous side effects so have to fight this on my own, with varying results, usually winning in the summertime and losing in the wintertime. Exercise greatly increases the pain and loss of mobility as the nerves are dying and leaving me in much worse condition than the original polio.
The losses just keep adding up. First my job. now I am at a point where most of my mobility is gone and i need assistance to get around. I was newly divorced when I came into the program and I too had a really bad time with guys hitting on me. Well miracle of miracles! I went through some rather intense counseling when I sobered up for around 4 years that included body language being about 80% of communication. When I cleaned up my body language and quit giving out the signals, I'm available, I'm easy, the guys went away. Sometimes I wonder if I still got it as they went away so completely, but not enough to put myself through that again by starting to play games just to find out.
I entered into a relationship newly sober (this is out of sequence, mind is rambling) that lasted for several years with a person who was on psychotic medication. I was so dumb!!! reealy dumb about medication and had not a clue what psychotic meant. Well he was doing so well, had been maintaining really well for several years so the doctor decided to take him off his medication. I thought, no big deal, sober up, get of mind altering medications and live happily ever after. Was I in for a wake up call. He went totally psychotic, delusions he was Jesus Christ, got violent, tried to kill me but that was ok because he said when he wanted to he was JC he would just rise me from the dead, threatened to machine gun my whole family. I had to move out of my home into an apartment, where he broke in assualted me and held me hostage for hours. I was screaming for my life, Call 911 he's trying to kill me. The woman upstairs went outside so she wouldn't have to listen to me or get involved, Then later complained to the landlord about the noise from my apartment. Boy, did he get an earful from me. Anyway I finally got away when he was distracted for a moment and drove myself to the police station. It took going to the governers office to get him committed as all of the locals were terrified of him from past episodes. It took 12 policemen to get him into restraints and tranquilized. Then he kept walking away from the hospital which as less than a mile from my house. Stalked me for years. When I remarried we moved out in the country. It has stopped for now, but who knows if he will find me again.
About five years ago I lost my mother. She had left home to work when I was 3 years old. Taught school in a one room school house and was required to board where she taught, leaving me with 4 older brother, an abusive father and lots of hired men and funny old uncles to raise me. The abuse was physical, mental, emotional, sexual as well as deprivation of basic physical needs. Took many years of therapy to get through this in sobriety. Well when my mother lay dying, I got up on the bed and took her in my arms and told her all the things I needed to tell her, told her I forgave her and that she had suffered enough, it was time to let go and she died in my arms. Took me long enough, but I got the job done in the end. Never could have done that sober. My rational mind knows that she was escaping that abusive man who was my father but my emotional self never accepted that. So when she died I had to accept the fact that she could never be my mother as she was now gone forever. The grief was overwhelming.
That was only the first death. Next came my father-in-law, a year later my mother-in-law, my uncle, my husbands aunt, both of our families had raised a brothers children, so we each had brother/sister cousins, I lost a sister cousin, husband lost a sister cousin, my nephew committed suicide, about a year later my dearly beloved neice committed suicide, best friends of my daughter. It seemed as though the deaths would never quit. We were numb, couldn't get along, with my health failing I felt I had nothing to fight with, had a nervous collapse. We had finally bought our dream place in the country, woods, ponds, walking trails, plus barn and pasture for the horses. The gravel pit came and took our farm. Oh yes, we left "willingly" because if I stayed the diesel fumes and dust from the operation of the pit on two sides of me plus diesel trucks driving on the gravel road directly in front of my house would have killed me as my lungs are shot. We got adequate compensation to purchase a really beautiful new farm but it does not have any usable outbuildings and have had to pull up miles of old rusty wire, remove the fences from the old farm that we spent 3 years putting up and then put them back up at the new farm. The physical labor has taken a full 10 years off my life and left me basically unable to function as had no money left to hire any help. It was a humoungous job to move a working farm. It is only a miracle of God that my husband and I are still together. Thank God for all of you at this site and AA as a whole. I did not drink. But yes I was tempted. I ran for a meeting without hesitation. Every bit as fast and with as much enthusiam as I would have headed for the bar when I was drinking.
One thing that really bugs me though. People are always throwing that old saying when things are tough. God will never give you more than you can bear. Then will you please explain shy my nephew Mark, my neice Jenny and my friend Nancy committed suicide. Quite obviously they had more than they could bear. Thanks for listening or just scrolling past if I got too boring. Carol
Member: Carol
Location: MN
Date: 7/8/01
Time: 6:29:09 PM
OOPS So Sorry. Got disconnected in the middle of writing. By some miracle I didn't lose it as usual but double posted by mistake