Member: Rarely
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 8:59:39 AM

Comments

First here How about relationships? and love? are those things a result of staying sober?


Member: Rarely
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 9:03:06 AM

Comments

Rarely Im an alcoholic. How about relationships and finding love as a result of staying sobriety


Member: Mark W.
Location: St. Louis
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 9:48:58 AM

Comments

As alcoholics, many of us have led lives of the selfish, self centered personalities we are. Of those, I am a prime example. I've been sober for some time, but still find that any close relationship brings out my personality defects as if someone poured miracle grow on them. My only saving grace on this topic is that today, the tools of AA allow me to recognize when I am wrong, and do the right thing about the wrongs. ODAAT - One Day at a Time. Mark W. LMW007@aol.com


Member: Lisa H
Location: TX
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 10:17:15 AM

Comments

I'm Lisa an alcoholic. Finding love as a result of staying sober....Before I got to AA I had no clue how to love or care about anyone even myself. The big book or the 12 & 12 says that we are unable to form true partnerships. I believe that it was my selfishness and self centerness that was a big part of the problem. How could I care about anyone when the world revoved around ME. I was like that before I ever took a drink, once that started it was all about drinking and drugging and more, more. I was only interested in someone if they had something for me. I never felt love, thought I was cold hearted, I couldn't even feel love for my own daughter!! Like I said it was all about the party life. But by Gods grace and by being active in AA for over 8 years I love her more than I could imagine...and I am in a (most the time)LOL happy and healthy relationship. I had to do some accepting and had to stop focusing on the negative but start looking at the great things that he adds to my life, it's all in my attitude and perception. Life is good and I have great relationships with friends and family so EVERYTHING gets better as a result of staying sober and practicing the principles of the program.


Member: Trace
Location: Essex England
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 10:18:12 AM

Comments

For me, now I am sober, I can feel love and give it unselfishly, I have been with my hubby 22yrs and only recently relised what really loving him is all about. Corney but true.


Member: Harriet B.
Location: Guelph Ontario Can.
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 10:29:16 AM

Comments

I have been told many times that one should not get into relationships within AA. I am still working hard at staying sober and was approached two years ago by a man who had 20 years of sobriety and me with almost none. I don't want to "lose" this person and get extremely anxious about seeing him. He gives me alot of advice about getting sober and is basically a non-threatening person, sort of a role model. I don't know if this fits into a 13th step affair. I have observed that there are many happy couples who have met at AA. So it's back to p. 68 - 71 of the Big Book. Have a good week--ODAAT.


Member: Donnie M.
Location: Short Gap, WV (D.O.S. 3-1-99)
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 12:23:00 PM

Comments

Hi, Donnie here and I am an alcoholic. This is a great topic, because it was when I looked back over the years of my marriage while I choose to drink more than anything. My wife of now thirteen years has been there beside me throughout my bout with alcoholism and she has always said she new the true man would return if the alcohol was removed. I have been blessed to have such an understanding mate and that is how I refer to her as my soul-mate. We are high school sweethearts and she new me before the booze took hold of my life. If I where asked today what I would give for my soberity I could not put a dollar amount on it, but for certain I would not have been given this opportunity to live a sober life without my wife and family and to my higher power that I call God. Today I have a reprieve from the disease of alcoholism, but that is all I have to worry about is today. Thanks for letting me share and God bless all.


Member: DODY Z
Location: ONTARIO, CANADA
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 1:02:58 PM

Comments

dody here I was kind of sad when I first logged on but reading those first comment`s cheered me up a lot. I`VE not been sober all that long,and am very lonely but I guess things will get better with time thanks to all of you!!and my HP.DODY


Member: Carlc
Location: tx
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 1:27:19 PM

Comments

Here we go again Oprah Winfrey, Jenny Jones, Ricki Lake, this is a great topic for the coffee pot. This is why AA is getting so watered down, people are talking about the problems that the whole world has,including alcoholics instead of talking about the solution to our problems, our problem is not about relationships, or finding love, or getting laid, our problem is this spiritual malady that centers in our mind, once this is overcome everything else falls into place. But I guess Jerry Springer is alive and well here so have at it.


Member: Troller
Location: of good-will
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 4:13:43 PM

Comments

Carlc. old pal, everybodys problems are spiritual maladies following your line of reasoning. And yes, there is a strong element of truth to it. However, both nothing has to do with drinking but drinking and everything have to do with drinking are both true to some extent. Relationships are probably the single biggest thing (reason, excuse, etc.) that people, especially newcomers, drink over. Regardless of who's at fault in the relationship, we alkies always want the comfort of the bottle when the going gets uncomfortable. The trick is to not drink and deal with the relationship problems as we ALL have them to some degree, not just alcoholics. We are just generally worse than the average human being at them, and that's nothing to be proud of! I've made substantial progress, but it takes time only from not drinking, but in general as no truly loving, solid, healthy relationship is built overnight. Carl my man, you are usually pretty good, but I often wonder if you ever stop to laugh in and at life on occasion? Lighten up a little dude, this thing can and will kill, just like you talk about, and it generally does so to those who take themselves and everything so damn seriously----so chill brother!!!!!!1


Member: Mark H
Location: CA
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 4:17:39 PM

Comments

Carlc... how about a topic about "God as we understood him" This is an AA related suggestion, and the basic backbone behind how AA works. Also it might bring out the imaginative and creative side in some people.


Member: Jeff T.
Location: Ne.
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 5:21:46 PM

Comments

Jeff Alcoholic. Well, it depends on where your looking for "love", or if indeed your looking for "love" or your just "lonely". Kind of a touchy subject. With that said i think i`ll pass this week & let those who are more qalified on this subject to tell you all about it. Thanks


Member: aj
Location:
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 5:50:10 PM

Comments

aj, alcoholic. thanks, too, for the topic. my biggest problem in sober relationships seems to be a desperate need for someone to be perfectly true to their word. i know i wasn't when i was drunk so i try hard to be true to my word in sobriety. unfortunately, i have recently realized that i have transferred that expectation on my relationships -- the closer the relationship, the higher my expectation that they will do, mean, remember what they have said to me and about me and about our relationship. that's rarely been the case and wasn't the case yesterday nor this morning. last night i caught a meeting that was on expectations and serenity, and accepting people for where they were at (page 452, third edition). the conclusion seemed to be that expecting people to do as they say is normal, but that i get into trouble not letting go when i see that what is in front of me has changed or is not as i thought. letting go of those expectations is the key to serenity and serenity is more important than being right. i did a sixth and seventh step on that defect last night, and then tried letting go of the expectation when things "got different" this a.m. can't say i was ecstatic or happy, but the serenity showed up and my day has been good. in fact, it's been a little better than planned. these are tough sobriety lessons for me but i'm grateful there are solutions other than drinking for these situations. i realized, too, that my long-time, sober friend who just died of cancer was perhaps the truest man of his word i have known. perhaps i just miss him and am looking for him in my other relationships. thanks for being here and listening.


Member: DUDLEY D
Location: DAYTONA BEACH, FL
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 7:43:43 PM

Comments

HI I'M AN ALCOHILIC NAMED DUDLEY:RARELY FROM WINNEPEG THIS IS FOR YOU AND ME. WHEN I FIRST CAME INTO AA I HAD NO CLUE AS TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I HAD INCLUDED IN MY FOURTH STEP. YOU SEE I HAD A VERY TOUGH SPONSER AND HE CAME FROM THE OLD SCHOOL AND HAD ME FOLLOW THE STEPS AS OUTLINED IN THE BIGBOOK. SO AS A RESULT OF THAT I HAD TO FORM A RELATIONSHIP WITH MY HIGHERPOWER BEFORE I COULD EVEN THINK ABOUT GETTING INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH A HUMAN BEING. AND THIS IS TO CARL C YOU SEE RELATIONSHIPS ARE A PART OF OUR RECOVER AS OUTLINED IN THE BIGBOOK. THX FOR LETTING ME SHARE


Member: Jo S.
Location: S.Central PA.
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 8:20:29 PM

Comments

Jo,recovering alkie here."old timer" in more ways than 1. Live in an area strongly influenced by a high profile treatment center which is a source of many new attendees who are not taught the difference between AA & psychotherapy. This has annoyed me (and other old time AAs.)This has taught me to stay focused on sharing my own ES&H,to relearn patience and tolerence and to stay focused on the basics as they were passed on to me. Heard a speaker this am, with decades of sobriety,who demonstrated how to live in the solution and briefly describe life problems,directly related to alcoholism without wallowing in them.Sponged that up as I used to do with alcohol.For me it was a spiritual experience and strongly reminded me that the spirit of AA lives on!


Member: JL
Location: The Beach
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 8:28:24 PM

Comments

Faltering and broken relationships and lost loves from the disease. Reading the book which was written precisely to show me how to find and put a higher power into use in my life, working the steps and especially rule # 62 which I haven't found in the book, all are taking care of the spiritual, mental and physical malady I have called alchoholism. Then the promises come true and as a part of that love has returned. Even making love. LOL!


Member: Once a drunk ,
Location: Always a drunk
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 8:58:09 PM

Comments

I had a row with my husband today. He had said something in front of others that hurt and embarrassed me. It was nothing to do with drinking. When we argued later about his coment he reminded me how many awful things I had said to him when I was drinking. I have nearly six sober years. I have been feeling quite proud of me. I thought I was doing pretty good. Well , now I feel as though the last six years count for nothing . The drinking days will always be there and even my best friend won't forget them. I feel "what is the point?" I don't feel like drinking again but I'm awful depressed. People will always remember how I drank. So why try and be a "better"person" I feel like a loser. [sorry I can't even think about the topic tonight]


Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 9:36:49 PM

Comments

Hi. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. Nice topic Rarely. And an important one for newcomers to read about. In 1972 I trashed a family because they were in the way of my drinking. I put my last drink down in 1981. One week later I started through the big book. "Alcoholics Anonymous" with a sponsor. We studied the description of the Steps and followed the instructions written in the first 164 pages. We did it precisely the way the first 100 did. I took full responsibility of the harm my drinking caused. I made my amends. I have just returned from a month long visit of friends, both normies and in the program and my former wife, my hubby in law and five of my six daughters. The only reason I didn't see the 6th was because she is a missionary in the Figi Islands. I do this every year. I am loved and respected both in the community and with my former family. This is a direct result of the steps, (especially the Ninth). This program works. It really does but you have to work it. Love ya all. Good to be back posting. Bill


Member: Sito T
Location: Puerto Rico
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 9:56:12 PM

Comments

I don't see nothing wrong with falling in love after sobriety. Working the steps is helping me to learn to love in a more healthy way. There are two things I have to watch out when it comes to relationships: I have a tendency to depend too much on others or to control others in order to feel happy. Today, I'm learning my happines depends on my degree of serenity.


Member: David H
Location: Nashville
Date: 6/29/2003
Time: 10:18:59 PM

Comments

When i was drinking I had lots of relationships and they were almost all bad. This caused a lot of pain for me and others. I met my current and yes first wife after about 19 months of sobriety outside the program. She is by all accounts the ideal wife. However, My character defects did and do still creep up a lot but we do have a happy and great marriage. But without this program it would not be.


Member: Carlc
Location: texas
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 12:03:41 AM

Comments

To my friend the troller, I know that at times I come on pretty strong but it is only because of what I have experienced. I stopped drinking and after about a year I started dating a married woman I worked with and of course being sir galahad I paid for her divorce this continued for about 7 or 8 years, you see I didnt need the steps I only did the first part of the first step. My life was not unmanigable, you see I had a pretty young girl friend, a nice car, a great place to live and plenty of money. What did I need God for? Secondy I was not insane, just look at me (second step) didnt need that. Why would I want to turn my life and will over to anyone cant you see what a wonderful job I am doing? So the rest of the steps fell right in line I didnt need them or God I wasnt drinking and my life was great, WRONG. I got into a AA relationship and when my higher power dumped me I found my self with a 25 automatic in my mouth, I made money my higher power and gambled most of it away. It wasnt until I had enough pain that I turned to the steps and that is what saved my life, In Bills story his friend promised him that when these were done (the steps) he would have the elements of a way of living which would solve all his problems. I have found that to be true without a shadow of a doubt. My life today is a priceless gift and I am truly a blessed man, and I give all the credit to my higher power, my Creator, my father, the highest of all powers. the Most High God. I truly love Alcoholics and the programs of AA and sometimes I come on a little to strong but it is only because I have been to the gates of insanity and almost death.


Member: Andy D.
Location: Tennessee
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 12:26:33 AM

Comments

Good topic. I've been sober for 19 months this go around and finally took other peoples advise and have managed to avoid taking a hostige so far. I find that anything I put in front of my sobriety usually blows up in my face anyway. I still have feeling of quilt and shame that keep me from loving myself much less anyone else. Doing a forth and fifth step has helped tremenously in that area of my life, but working my eighth step is where I'm learning about unconditional brotherly love. Learning that with the help of my higher power, even I can be a person that is able to forgive, no matter what the circumstance. Someday I may be able to love again, the kind of love that is giving and kind, but this time it will be His will not mine. I'll remind myself with pg. 99 & 100. I've got the monkey off my back but the circus is still in town, I think I'll just worry about staying sober today and let God and my Sponsor figure the rest out. AD


Member: Troller
Location: Here and Everywhere
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 1:22:07 AM

Comments

I know Carlc., and I love you buddy. I also think most of what say is right on the money, I just want you to have a little laughter and joy too my friend, that's all. That's not so bad of me is it??? I appreciate your sincerity even when you are wrong, as I know it's all out of love--even when you go ballistic. I know pal, but can't I just get a few chuckles out of ya---don't want to be a glum lot---right?


Member: Melanie
Location: Akron, Ohio,USA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 2:36:44 AM

Comments

Hello, friends, I'm Melanie, an alcoholic. Carl C.--I appreciate your second post! You should have shared that with us the first time. I agree with much of what you say. But how about instead of assuming that the discussion will be trivial and irrelevent, give the rest of us some credit for having worked the steps and using them, all twelve, on a daily basis? Now, about love...I am still married to the man I met and loved before sobriety. The strange thing is that since I've gotten sober, he isn't such an a--hole anymore! The twelve steps have led me to a faithful life. Steps 123: HP is control now, everything's going to be all right. 456: Wow, I sure don't want to hurt myself and others the way I used to. 789: I know I was wrong, can you forgive me? 101112: If I keep track of me and try to do what HP wants, things can only get better! This is the briefest description of how the steps have changed my life. There is not room here to tell you all. The program has made me a more loving and lovable person. My marriage is one of the many things that A.A. has rescued for me. Thank YOU for being a part of this!! Blessings!!


Member: Donna R
Location: Winnipeg. Can.
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 8:28:48 AM

Comments

Hi everyone. Rarely's wife here. I really appreciate all the comments on his topic. From my experience, until I did the steps (many times) and put God into the centre of my life, relationships for me never worked out. Our union must be spiritual or we have problems. Today we work on ourselves as individuals first. When we are plugged into our higher power and working the steps daily our life together can't get any better. I used to fill up the void with another person. Now God is the Head of our household and what a difference. Thank God for the AA program. We have over 50 years of sobriety in our household and we still have to work it One Day At a Time. I never thought I would ever get there. Thanks to all who have gone before us and showed us the way. Love you Rarely with all my heart.


Member:
Location:
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 9:12:06 AM

Comments

AHHH....Ain't this cutsey wootsey? I just love it when a plan comes together, don't ya'll? How sweet all this is, eh? NOW--Can we get real?


Member: gasman
Location: southeastern
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 9:35:12 AM

Comments

Have to agree with most of what I've read. I had a sponsor when I first got sober who told me that for me to get in a relationship early in the program would be suicide.Of course he pointed out that no woman in her right mind would get involved with someone living in a half-way house who just bought their first six-pack of socks, and hadn't held a real job in 6 years. He told me "the most important relationship you'll EVER have is the one you develope and maintain with your concept of GOD" He was right, I share that with the men I sponsor. I am sober, alive, happy, joyous, and free today only because of the grace of a loving God that I found in the steps. I am also in a relationship that is healthy, fun, and growing because of that same grace. It just took me being "willing" to keep an "open mind" and "honesty" about my condition to finally meet the person I want to share the rest of my life with. I owe my life and everything that is good about me to the program of Alcoholics Annonymous. The bad things I take ownership of and with God's help, they'll be removed, root and branch, just as the need to drink was. Thanks AA I love you.


Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:35:52 AM

Comments

Craig here, another "real alcoholic" (page 21). While I was drinking the most important thing in my life was getting loaded. Today staying sober, is the most important thing in my life. I stay sober by practicing the 12 steps and staying connected to AA. As a result I also have a Peace I never knew. My spiritual malady, is a permenant fatal condition, which will keep me from the light of Loving and eventually kill me, unless I practice everyday, turning my will over to God. When I do that I find with some surprise Love of both you and myself. When I don't, I am a sad "unlovely creature". For this alcoholic; With God anything is possible, without nothing is.


Member: Kelley S
Location: Texas
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 11:24:05 AM

Comments

Kelley here, alcoholic/addict...Relationships always meant disaster for me before I got sober, they ended up in heartache and pain. I stayed alone for the first year after I got sober, as my sponsor told me. After that I met the man of my dreams. He is not an alcoholic, and this has led to a few, but not major problems. At times I get to the point where I am an unbearable person to be around, and must find serenity elsewhere besides the house we share. I find that serenity at meetings and talking with my sponsor. He thinks that I am thinking about going out when I get that way, but it is quite the opposite. I must find a place for me that feels right, a place of peace and calm...my serenity. So the problem with me is not my relationship with him, but the way he wants to be scared that I will slip and drink or use, I have more faith in me than he does it seems, and that seems to be our only problem. He is more afraid that I will slip than I am it is as if he worries about my sobriety more than I do. I try to let God do it for me, and I don't know how to make him understand this, how to get him (my man) To let go of my problems and to let God take them away.Does anyone else understand what I am saying?? Any ideas or suggestions?? Thamks....


Member:
Location:
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 2:39:21 PM

Comments

Relationships are more than just who I'm sleeping with for goodness sakes. Why does everyone in AA think they are marriage counsellors when they get sober? We probably have 90% of the entire divorced population amongst us and now we're experts just because we haven't had a drink? LUDICROUS!!!!!!!!!


Member: Ronda P.
Location: Indiana
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 4:38:57 PM

Comments

Ronda, alcoholic. I entered AA while in a relationship with someone. He was and is a great fulfilling part of my life. It is the other types of relationships that I have a problem with--friends. I have the hardest time reaching out to people. I have been with a women's group for a year and a half, and I still feel distant from all of them. I've heard and seen of these great friendships that are formed in AA, yet I don't as of yet seem capable of this. I stopped going to mixed-gendered meetings all together because I got tired of getting hit-on at meetings by some of the men. I think this is a common problem for women, forming relationships with other women. Any suggestions?


Member: Rachel
Location: Houston
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 5:09:56 PM

Comments

Hi, Rachel, alcoholic-I think relationships are very important to consider in our sobriety. I have been sober 3 1/2 years and have yet to find myself in a relationship. I tried dating someone a few years ago and I found that I was insane. I think relationships are relative to our recovery for they expose our character defects. Our relationships are our mirrors. Usually someone acts out the character defects that we deny. I know from experience that this has occured to me. Relationships force us to look at ourself and our defects and work to correct them; therefore, discussing relationships is important in relation to recovery.


Member: Art S
Location:
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 5:40:34 PM

Comments


Member: Art S
Location:
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 5:41:25 PM

Comments

Is anyone online now?


Member: TomP
Location: NE Iowa
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 6:04:52 PM

Comments

Name is Tom an alcoholic. 16 years sober in April and found out my ideal relationship barrier is 50 miles. Moved wife out last year. Lives in town 50 miles away. She is second wife; we married 6 weeks BEFORE I got sober. Tells you where my "wife picker" was and where her "husband picker" was . Thank God for AA and the principles! They are my truely life saving relationships! Marriage relationship is for practicing the principles I learned in AA and can only do this for myself. Can't change her! (Serenity Prayer?) but could change her location and God gave me the courage to do it. Relationship much better now. Not as much chance to practice and I needed a break! Drinking not a solution for this relationship. New wife? Now that's another story and another program.


Member: Ali-C
Location: Dearborn Heights
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 9:18:26 PM

Comments

About the topic: There is much verbiage here, that does not mean much. The bottom line is that Alcoholics live in their own worlds, and by extension have a difficult time just being with others. Geniunely intimate relationship are a medicine to this condition. Provided that the alcoholic has an unshakable serene demeanor. That is the challange.


Member: David T
Location: N.C.
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:09:33 PM

Comments

Relationships early in sobriety are very difficult. I have been with someone for 5 months and there have been ups and downs. A relationship with your higher power should come first. Then when the time is right you will find someone with whom you can go through life with and stay sober. Just remember that your sobriety should come before anything.It's hard enough living life on lifes terms in early sobriety without dealing with the complications that are bound to arise. It's a very simple program for very complex people. So just keep it simple... David


Member: KEITH L.
Location: SAN DIEGO CA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:39:40 PM

Comments

I had to learn how to stay sober,first.I had to be shown the steps.I had to imerse myself in AA.As I stayed sober,a day at a time,I began to explore who I am.One of the biggest gifts given to me by AA,besides my life,is that today I am a gay man,& that it is O.K. to be me.I no longer have to walk in the shadows.I met another recovering man,in a meeting.We have been together for 10 years.He is 13 years sober,I am 15 years sober.We still stay involved in The Program.Honesty,Openess & Willigness.The basics of our program.Also the fact that the only requrement for membership to Our Fellowship is a desire to stop drinking.It is O.K. to be who we are.


Member: Jennifer M.
Location: Spokane. WA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:52:48 PM

Comments

Mine is about gratitude. I am so thankful for the AA meetings other than the 3 hour tx session that I get so little out of. Maybe it's because I know that half the people or more are faking thier sobriety??


Member: Jennifer M.
Location: Spokane. WA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:53:49 PM

Comments

Mine is about gratitude. I am so thankful for the AA meetings other than the 3 hour tx sessions that I get so little out of. Maybe it's because I know that half the people or more are faking thier sobriety??


Member: Jennifer M.
Location: Spokane. WA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:54:04 PM

Comments

Mine is about gratitude. I am so thankful for the AA meetings other than the 3 hour tx sessions that I get so little out of. Maybe it's because I know that half the people or more are faking thier sobriety??


Member: Jennifer M.
Location: Spokane. WA
Date: 6/30/2003
Time: 10:59:23 PM

Comments

Mine is about gratitude. I am so thankful for the AA meetings other than the 3 hour tx sessions that I get so little out of. Maybe it's because I know that half the people or more are faking thier sobriety??


Member: IPeggy M.
Location:
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 6:48:05 AM

Comments

Hi I'm Peggy and I'm an alcoholic; Thanks for all the good shares and honesty. I think relationships are overrated as Betty Davis put it!! I've learned some lessons about my control issues,jealousy and nievete etc. Presently, I'm very happy and live alone but I have some really good friends (all from AA I might add}.I love my life and am so grateful to be anywhere. One day at a time Love,


Member: IPeggy M.
Location: Reno
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 6:48:57 AM

Comments

Hi I'm Peggy and I'm an alcoholic; Thanks for all the good shares and honesty. I think relationships are overrated as Betty Davis put it!! I've learned some lessons about my control issues,jealousy and nievete etc. Presently, I'm very happy and live alone but I have some really good friends (all from AA I might add}.I love my life and am so grateful to be anywhere. One day at a time Love,


Member: Rarely
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 9:07:00 AM

Comments

Rarely and Im an alcoholic. What great posts each and every one of them, As a result of them my wife and I took a trip out into the country last night and talked about some of the sfuff that we read here. My former wife once said to me " We got to work on our relationship," What in hell does that mean??? My feelings at the time was I love you and every thing is okay. what are you complaining about??? That relationship was doomed, and I couldent do a thing about it. She would say " You think that sex solves our problems." What does that mean?? that Im not suppose to have sex until I solve our marriage problem,?? We never do any thing together any more. What in hell is that suppose to mean. I do all kind of things with our kids but you won't make the effert to come along. The list does on and on and on. I don't want to sound off to strongly about my present marriage because when other couples did that back when I was dommed and diden't know what to do... I just wanted to puke listening to those who had a relationship that was working. Today at 67 years old Im in love, I feel great about my relationship with Donna. We can talk about any subject, not be called stupid or have it later thrown back in our face. I own this to Donna for it was she that when I would with-draw that she would make me talk. She once told me that if I ever with drew and never talked about what I was feeling , That would be the beginning of the end for us. We both go to a lot of A.A. meetings. Donna is every spiritual, I on the other hand like to read the B.B. and 12x12. We both love God and our fellow man. Im so happy, I have my health, a women who I know loves me, and I love her so much. a fellowship in A.A. and a GOD of our understanding, Love you.. Donna R.


Member: me
Location: nere
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 11:51:25 AM

Comments

Good-One Ali-C. from Michi.....Like It girl...


Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 11:56:32 AM

Comments

Hi all, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. So much good stuff said already. Thanks for the topic, Rarely. I used, abused, and threw out myself and others while I was drinking, until I was one of those 'alone in a crowded room' kind of people. I had no idea of what relationships with others should be like when I first started coming to meetings. While getting used to being a sober ME, and being with a sponsor/guide, and people in my home group, I started learning how to trust and be a committed, responsible friend. I agree that my relationship with God comes first. By not drinking, and trying to seek and do God's will for me, all the other things I'm gifted with in my life are possible. My relationship with my family is being restored (thanks, steps). I am wanted, needed and loved by my friends, and I feel the same about them (thanks, AA). I was able to keep, and raise my daughter in a loving, sober home, so that she's self-confident, positive and ready to be successful in world and her life (thanks, God). I like ME. It amazes me that so much good comes from trying to do the opposite of my personality flaws. I appreciate hearing about finding loving parters in sobriety. That is something I've stayed away from, because I put sobriety and my daughter first, but more because of self-centered fear. You all give me hope that if I keep working at sobriety, this may happen for me, too. Thanks, all.


Member: angie
Location: california
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 2:13:14 PM

Comments

angie alcoholic .... WOW i cant believe i didn't check on what the topic in here was before now ... love and relationships ... it's funny how things work.... cuz thats what i am going through right now .... i am struggeling not to contact that him that i know isn't good for me .... the one i partied with ... the one who was exteremly violent with me ... theo ne that just got out of prison his 2nd or 3rd trip since i have been in recovery .... he just got out yesterday ..... anyways .... i dont know yet what healthy relationships are like as a result of sobriety ....because i am just 7 1/2 months sober ... and not healthy enough i dont believe to handle a relationship ... not one that would last anyhow... and finally at 29 years of age ... i am tierd of wasting my time i never before went into a relationship with intentions of wanting it to last ... just kinda dove in and seen what happened from there ... which is i'm sure how i'll continue to do it ... except now i dont wanna waste alot of time with someone i know that'll never last ...i am done with unhealthy relationships ... i want the real thing next time ... but i am in no rush ..... not yet hell right now i am desperatly fighting not to contact the "him" and i feel like theres no one to really talk to about it ... dont really think theres much to say except i am dying to find out if he is really out ... what his plans are.... just hear his voice... but i cant .. i cant ... i cant .... AND IT SUCKS..... see i am still way way unhealthy ... lol


Member: DebLH
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 2:42:58 PM

Comments

Debbie, recovering addict/alcoholic, I've read a lot of good things about relationships here. I met my future(2nd) husband when I was sober just a year and he was just getting out of a half-way house. We knew we were breaking the rules, but at that point we still felt we could beat the odds. We were together as "friends" but quickly became a couple and proceeded to try and have a healthy relationship. Then his ex-wife wanted to try recovery, we broke up and it broke my heart, I survived a test that I didn't know I could with out getting drunk, the loss of love. I guess I was working a good enough program to believe that God had a plan. I quickly became aware of just how sick I was in regard to men and relationships. I made a commitment to not have sex and stay out of a relationship for one year. I think that is when recovery really started for me. I stopped looking "out there" and found what I was looking for within, where I developed my relationship with the God of my understanding. To make a long story short, I ran into him two years later, we dated for five years, and have now been married for 12 years. Today I could not imagine being in a relationship with somebody not working the steps. We attend a "couples AA/Alanon meeting" on Friday nights that I feel is the core of our marriage. I don't think either one of us believed we'd ever have a relationship this good. Thank You, God and Thank You AA


Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 3:26:22 PM

Comments

Hi everyone. Kim here, alcoholic. Good posts on the topic ((Rarely, Carl and Gasman)). ((Kelly in TX)) Have you considered having your partner try Alanon? They can probably help him with his fear, if he is willing. Sooo.... relationships of the romantic variety... Yikes! I'm 35 years old and am "alone" for the first time since I was 14. I am not actively seeking a relationship. That is a first. For me, relationships were a way to get out of myself - to take the focus off of doing the inside work that needed to be done. I wanted that "feel good fix" right away, but the trouble with relationships is that the newness eventually wears off and I was left with the same empty feelings that I had when I started. So, at this point in my recovery, I have formed a relationship with my HP that I try and strengthen everyday. I am currently working on my 4th Step to clean house and get to the causes and conditions of my alcoholism. I can not give away something I don't have - and right now I don't have a solid sense of who I am or what makes me tick. I don't know if it'll take me a year - that time limit seems strange to me. Working the Steps is paramount to emotional sobriety and being spiritually sick. Until I do - whether that takes me 1 year or 3 -I will continue to get what I got over the last 21 years. Remember - water seeks it's own level. Boy, did I hate that term but see a lot of truth in it now.


Member: KD
Location:
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 3:28:12 PM

Comments

Ummmm... I meant "Working the Steps is paramount to emotional sobriety and being spiritually WELL (not sick)." Jeesh - Freudian slip or what???? LOL.


Member: D-flat
Location: ND
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 7:25:34 PM

Comments

wooohoooo what a topic,, read alot of good stuff, racheal said some things about seeing our own charecter defects come out more clearly when we are in relationships,,how true,, i think for me i lived in a fantasy world back when i was drinking or not drinking, before sobriety anyway, so today can be a challenge, ive been sober 9yrs and struggle with relationships, i feel like a kid at times, i had to get out of a long term relationship and have been single for 2 yrs im 37 and feel like im new at this. someone told me to buy a plant,,hehe,, so i did about a year ago and its still alive!!! so i bought another, i dont know? i hate to feel desperate and needy,ewwww but sometimes i do, but it has gotten better in some ways, im relizing i had a part in that relationship, i have stuff i need to look at,and am gratefull im sober to do that. but i must add that i have had relationships righted that i thought would never be and i get along with people now that i thought i never would and i actually like them ,,its amazing what God can do for us when we cant for ourselves,and i do owe that to a friend who suggested a 4th step,, actully all the steps but the 4th and 5th really helped me see for the first time in my life, peace


Member: roberts
Location: Connersville,IN
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 7:55:35 PM

Comments

I agree with Rachel, relationships are important in our soberity, because it does allow us to work on caracter defects.


Member: angie
Location: cali
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 8:08:56 PM

Comments

Very true ... which is why i am oh soooo grateful for the sober living home that i live in ..... talk about working on character defects.......ever lived with 18 women in one house and 1 phone ... holy tamoly.... or 6 girls in a 2 bedroom apt 1 bathroom no phone... aye aye aye


Member: roberts
Location: Connersville,IN
Date: 7/1/2003
Time: 9:42:03 PM

Comments

I agree with Rachel, relationships are important in our soberity, because it does allow us to work on caracter defects.


Member: Ron J
Location: Rural Saskatchewan, Canada
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 7:24:10 AM

Comments

Hi - Ron here and, at the moment a sober alcoholic! Havent posted in this forum before, but often lurk and read and inwardly digest your shares - for which I thank you all. In my active addiction, I was - and could always be again - a needy, insecure, control freak. So these words about the topic really apply to me - that we dont form relationships or makes friends in our addiction, what we do is to take hostages! Try to control and - or - be controlled! And the result is like controlled drinking or using, disastrous! The words for me, now, about sober relationships are mutual need, mutual respect and boundaries, boundaries, boundaries! Ron JRon J


Member: mike r.
Location: mount forest , ont .canada
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 8:40:51 AM

Comments

Hi Mike grateful recovering alcoholic, relationships are important in our soberity, because it does allow us to work on my caracter defects,just in the past two years I used to buy my friends and now since I am in A.A I have found out that there are people that you care about you without buying there friendship, I know in my life I have a sponsor that we both have attended to each other and to others that relationships can happen since ours has grown to relationship of brotherhood. But one thing let it happen and you will see the change in ourself and other people will notice the change as well. Love you all Take care


Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 10:34:49 AM

Comments

I'm Kathy, an alcoholic. In the first few years of the program I was obsessed about finding a mate, believing that I had lost time and missed opportunities by being married to the bottle. My sponsor insisted I stay focused on working the steps. She told me that I confused "being in heat" with "being in love". As it turns out, her perception was correct but I argued with her constantly in the early years. Armed with the knowledge and experience of past relationships in and out of sobriety, I am no longer obsessed. In fact, I am (most times) confident that if I continue to work the steps and value my present relationships, and that if a partner is really what I desire in my life, then one will appear and I will recognize this and be able to establish and maintain a healthy relationship.


Member: Mike H
Location: Jackson MI
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 10:45:39 AM

Comments

Mike, alcoholic. I have only had one relationship (marriage) that was forced due to a child on the way. It lasted for 11yrs., but as the relationship changed, I didn't. I now have learned as has been said already that I need to have a relationship with my HP first and then everything else will fall into place in his time, not mine. It has already been 12yrs., but I am confident that when the time is right my HP will put the right woman in front of me.


Member: d-flat
Location: nd
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 11:31:26 AM

Comments

Ronj,,thanks for sharing,:)


Member: SJD
Location: NW
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 3:49:56 PM

Comments

The one thing that I have found is that while drinking, I have a hard time accepting love. I had many people that offered their hand to me in love, but I turned it away. Being sober has allowed me to accept their love, and use them as stepping stones to my healing. I think it is essential to accept the love of others, as they will help you love yourself again.


Member: stuartf
Location: london uk
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 6:02:22 PM

Comments

if your relationship with God is right - your relationships get right


Member: Susie
Location: Kentucky
Date: 7/2/2003
Time: 6:49:09 PM

Comments

Susie alcoholic here. Grateful 2 be sober and able 2 think about someone other than myself. Thank you 4 my life. Never did i consider the rights, priveleges, and wishes of another person...... until i started working and applying the twelve steps of A.A. I am still teachable GWG in ODAAT...


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 12:42:23 AM

Comments

I have been married to the same woman my entire adult life. This indicates lack of imagination and a certain masochistic tendency on her part. The thing is that most of my life I thought love was an emotion that one talked about. Sometime after getting sober and taking the Steps I came to understand that love is an action. To say, I love you, means nothing without actions to show that love.


Member: Anna N.
Location: WA
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 1:07:35 AM

Comments

anna, alcoholic. love...first year of sobriety, no dating. best rule i've ever heard, of course was broken, they're made to be, right? i dated a fellow alcoholic, he went out, my heart was broken. took him back, stomped on again. don't we ever learn? trying to assert control over other people's decisions really doesn't work- and learning it the hard way is often the only way to learn it in your heart. i haven't known myself for the past four years- i've learned that before i can love someone else i need to learn to love myself- also corny, but true. still workin..thanks guys.


Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 1:52:39 AM

Comments

Well, crap! I typed up a share and it was not posted. So, I'll try again and this time, keep a copy until it appears on the site. I have been married to the same woman my entire adult life. This speaks of a lack of imagination and certain masochistic tendencies on her part. Previous to becoming a member of AA I thought love was just an emotion. After taking the Steps and having a spiritual awakening it became clear that the emotion of love is meaningless without the actions which express that love. Expression of love beyond merely saying, I love you, requires that one think of the desires and well-being of another; a very, very difficult thing for an alcoholic to accomplish. It takes work and a certain amount of self sacrifice but, the rewards are great. This share turned out better than the first one so, all is well.


Member: Cec H
Location: Stampede City
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 5:51:30 AM

Comments

Rarely, yes to both questions. But and I found this to be true for me, I had to work hard first at loving myself ,then at loving others and not in the sexual sence of love, but in websters dictionary( a strong like to or for something or one). Also I had a lot of emontional baggages to work thru. Been happily married for 7 yr's now. And if I can keep her happeness in the forthought of my mind, I will most likely remain happily married.


Member: Margaret Hill
Location: Auckland N.Z
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 6:26:28 AM

Comments

HI this is my first time at this meeting.Relationships is a good topic..I have found that when in a relationship I focused mainly on my partner. I have been on my own now for 3yrs and I am having a great life..I wished I done it sooner..


Member: Margaret Hill
Location: Auckland N.Z
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 6:26:28 AM

Comments

HI this is my first time at this meeting.Relationships is a good topic..I have found that when in a relationship I focused mainly on my partner. I have been on my own now for 3yrs and I am having a great life..I wished I done it sooner..


Member: Margaret Hill
Location: Auckland N.Z
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 6:33:30 AM

Comments

HI this is my first time at this meeting.Relationships is a good topic..I have found that when in a relationship I focused mainly on my partner. I have been on my own now for 3yrs and I am having a great life..I wished I done it sooner..


Member: Linda F.
Location: NYC
Date: 7/3/2003
Time: 2:52:55 PM

Comments

I Know as an alcoholic AA has saved my life but coming from an alcoholic family and now that I am sober Alanon helps me in relationships with my significant other and at work -all of them-in fact without Alanon I don't think I would stay sober and if I did I might lose my mind trying to control things - feeling like a victim and always abandoning myself to focus on someone else. Alanon helps me to stay present, stay grateful and stop running, to have a voice and restraint of pena nd tongue when necessary to stop reacting and respond-To talk about how I feel to ask for what I need to believe I deserve the best and to not have to drink regardless of how I feel.


Member: Duce T
Location: Riverside Calif.
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 12:27:21 AM

Comments

Duce alky. I have been marryed 35yr. sober for 5yr and im lost in the wont to take a to drink a lot of drinks! HELP ! PLEASE


Member: Melanie again
Location: Sobercity, USA
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 12:43:19 AM

Comments

Hey, Duce! Go to http://www.e-aa.org They have live chat. It takes a few minutes to register. You can live chat with someone right away (most likely). Prayers for you!


Member: john c
Location: uk
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 12:45:22 AM

Comments

Aren't relationships the most difficult thing to get right,and isn't it an always risky,sometimes frustrating, but often deeply rewarding adventure. My relationship with my 16 year old son this week has been tough, mainly because of my too high expectations of him, some amends to make? As I grow in sobriety( not by any means a straight line, somedays good some bad)my relationship with God seems to be the key to balance in my interaction with others. It also seems to help my relatioship with myself, too often I am my own biggest critic. I've just woken in the wee small hours with a resentment against one of my work colleagues.Looking at myself and my part in it,and writing this has already started to dissolve the anger,shown possible ways of resolution and helped to keep me away from that first drink


Member: JCH
Location: TEXAS
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 1:58:58 AM

Comments

1-8-98 I have learned one thing that has been touched on. With out putting God and the program first no matter what I'm not good with people male or female. I have a disease that seems to tell me at all times no matter what the evidence is that I am truly different than everyone else. That somehow the rules just don't apply to me. Thank God that I have been kept sober long enough to be able to realize some of the time that that is a huge delusion. For the man wanting a drink. Please pick up the phone, and call another alcoholic it could save your life as well as others. God bless you all.


Member: Shauna W
Location: Meekatharra, WA
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 4:28:04 AM

Comments

Hi, Shauna here, alcoholic.It's been a few months since I've had access to a computer and have loved reading all your posts. This fellowship is personal for me. It shows me a way to live life with my higher power whom I call God. He is my first relationship, my husband whom I met in sobriety is next, along with my family and friends. If and when, I do on occasion, leave God out all my other relationships falter. I need God to show me His will for me on a daily basis or I flounder. I have 13 years of sobriety which means nothing if I don't continue to hand my will and my life over to God. He gives me the power to carry out anything He wishes for me to do, achieve etc. A very different picture to me as a drunk, self-will run riot,grabbing hostages instead of having relationships and surviving as best I knew how. Thanks for AA and all who attend for showing me the solution. It's a wonderfull life now and I grab it with both hands. Shauna


Member: Denis
Location: Irel.
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 7:36:31 AM

Comments

Hi, Denis here, alcoholic. i just want to thank all who send messages to this page. i have got a lot of help over the past months since i first found stayingcyber again, thanks


Member: John O'L
Location: DFW Texas
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 8:28:09 AM

Comments

Happy 4th of July to all who trudge the road of happy destiny! This is John O'L, an alcoholic from Texas. Because of my Higher Power and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, I have not found it necessary to take a drink of alcohol for over 21 years, and for this I am as grateful as I know how to be. As I understand it, the topic is relationships and love and sobriety. It has been my experience that alcohol is a great isolator. Alcohol has the power to drive others away from you and to prevent strangers from ever coming to know you. And, sadly, many who are alcoholics come to seek out the isolation and loneliness in a bitter reaction to the hostility others show to their drunken behavior. It's tough to be around a wet drunk - it's painful, embarrassing, sad, tragic, and about one hundred negative things for every positive. Once an alcoholic begins seeking sobriety, much of the negative aspects of being around him/her either vanish or diminish. The difference is striking! Life starts to get better once a drunk begins the program of AA - not just in one aspect of life, but in almost each and every aspect of life. This also applies to love and relationships. The key is to get started and to stay active and involved in the program of AA by reading the Big Book, attending meetings, reading the Grapevine, visiting online meetings and websites, etc. etc. etc. Hope we all have a happy, safe, and sober 4th!


Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 10:33:00 AM

Comments

For anyone who is truly mature can tell you that love is a choice, just like most anyhting else in life, even drinking. It's not some fuuny little, fuzzy, wuzzy feeling or emotion, that's immature to believe. Do what ya's want, but don't call it love unless as Les said, it's backed up by action. Love without self-sacrifice is no love at all, certainly not something I want. Crazy thing is, I love sacrificing for my daughter as I'm sure most any parent can attest to. I only pray she's instilled with the same sense of what love truly is---that choice. I choose to love her and her mother, but that only flows from my choice to love God first and foremost. As long as I continue to make that very same choice I feel confident that she will see my actions and that very choice for her basis of love as she grows into the beautiful woman God intends.


Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 10:33:19 AM

Comments

For anyone who is truly mature can tell you that love is a choice, just like most anyhting else in life, even drinking. It's not some fuuny little, fuzzy, wuzzy feeling or emotion, that's immature to believe. Do what ya's want, but don't call it love unless as Les said, it's backed up by action. Love without self-sacrifice is no love at all, certainly not something I want. Crazy thing is, I love sacrificing for my daughter as I'm sure most any parent can attest to. I only pray she's instilled with the same sense of what love truly is---that choice. I choose to love her and her mother, but that only flows from my choice to love God first and foremost. As long as I continue to make that very same choice I feel confident that she will see my actions and that very choice for her basis of love as she grows into the beautiful woman God intends.


Member: Little Running Bear
Location: Saginaw, MI
Date: 7/4/2003
Time: 11:35:33 PM

Comments

Shauna W, from the Evergreen State, you have stated it so well: that our first and foremost relationship must be with our Heavenly Father. Thank you for your wonderful insight. I must also agree with the other posts, that for those of us who get clean and sober, we lose our former self-centered selves and become better individuals because of our learning experience. We are thus capable of becoming better partners in a relationship. It is difficult to have any relationship with a person who's first love is his/her addiction, be it alcohol, nicotine, cocaine, heroin, or any other drug. God Bless one and all. May you live your lives in the footsteps our our Master.


Member: Jenny
Location: WI
Date: 7/5/2003
Time: 11:09:12 AM

Comments

Jenny alcoholic...I struggle with all relationships - not just the romantic ones. It is my instict to be self centered and demanding. So I have to pray, every day, for my higher power to remove those character defects and allow me to be helpful. The 7th step prayer is a powerful tool.


Member:
Location:
Date: 7/5/2003
Time: 11:35:13 AM

Comments

Good one Little Running Bear, thanks.


Member: Nick G
Location: TX
Date: 7/5/2003
Time: 2:56:56 PM

Comments

Hi I am an alcoholic and my name is Nick. Selfishness and self-centeredness is what we think is the root of our trouble. With that being stated, I (Nick the alcoholic)had not ever had any regards for anyone else? Especially, with a girlfriend or my wife at that time. So, called love. Plain and simple NO! Liquor is but a symptom we had to get down to causes and conditions. Defective relationships! The common denominator here is Nick. Believe me I tried to exclude myself from this aspect of it. But of course to no avail. Darn sponsor would not allow me to have it my way. HmmmÖSince, AA is not therapy or a self-help program. Itís a program of action. What is it that we can put back into the main stream of life rather than what it is we can get out of it. (the topic seems to be what is we can get out of it, again I hear addressing the problem with the problem). If I am thinking about ME, how am I being of maximum service to God and the people about us? So, where in the big book does it talk about we are going to be able to work on our character defects / (defective relationships)? What we can do, is to ask him (GOD) to remove these character defects which are objectionable. Which are now easily recognizable (These objectionable defects of character were identified in the writing of the 4th step and became more relevant during the 5th step.) I search out and help other alcoholics who still suffer. Right? When I am doing Godís will, God is blessing me, spiritually, physically, mentally and materially and you too. Trust God, Clean House, and Help Others seems to be the solution here. God provides us with what we need not what we want or think is suitable for our grand scheme of things. By stepping aside and letting God be the God he is and always will be, I have been blessed with incredible loving relationships some new and some old with family, friends, significant others and even the ex-wife. Ha-ha. Step 12, having had a spiritual awaking as result of taking these steps, I carry this message to the alcoholic who still suffers and try to practice these principles in all my affairs. This stepis the I believe has really allowed such blessing to manifest into my life. I.e. we must take all 12 steps in order and continually do the maintenance steps 10, 11, 12. The book says we have only a daily reprieve contingent on our spiritual condition. Therefore stay close and hope to see you on the broad highway. Thank you for letting me share. My name is Nick and I am truly grateful to be a recovered member of alcoholics anonymous. God Bless Us All.


Member: Gayla
Location: OKC
Date: 7/5/2003
Time: 6:00:38 PM

Comments

Hi ya'll! I'm Gayla, an alcoholic. I thought I had some great relationships when I was drinking... funny how when I got sober I no longer enjoyed the friendships, and vise versa. I learned about relationships and love in AA. At first, out of desperation, I trusted one person. She didn't earn that trust, I just wanted what she had because I had a pretty good idea that was the only way that I was ever going to get sober...to find God. She cared about me, and she would tell me to leave me alone, (did ya hear that "Once a drunk Always a drunk"?) and she would say if you can't believe, believe that I believe... yeah it still doesn't make sense to me but when I can't believe I believe that she believes! She loved me until I could love myself, and slowly but surely I could love you too. My relationships today aren't perfect, but they are better than I could have ever imagined!