Member: Jeff
Location: Ne
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 2:26:38 PM
I also agree with the about post AA is about AA not all the other "bibble babble"
Member: RICHARD M
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 2:45:19 PM
hello everyone , my name is richard m...i am an alcoholic. My sobriety date is december 28, 1985. This issue is really simple .......... are you sober...can you comprehend our preamble? my problem is i Am an alcoholic... as long as i keep the alcohol.....outta my mouth............i am going to be ok.. love , peace and happinees to all..................
Member: Jeff
Location: NE
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 2:45:35 PM
Opps! ya sure now you re-start the meeting? Now no one will know what it means. I guess i`ll start a topic on keeping "AA about AA" then. One of the tradition talks about having no opinion on outside issues, another says we ought never endorse,finance or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise, i see these tradition being broken in on-line AA meetings & in my own home group (which folded) When ever anyone brings up the tradions it seems as if they are not taken to seriously. Maybe i`m to over protective but do we want the newcomer to see AA all blended together with all the other problems in society today or do we help the Alcoholic to recover & leave all the other problems to those who came help them solve them better than we can. We are not a cure all. Let`s keep AA for the Alcoholic who needs our help! So piss you off if it does but lets keep the Tradition formost in our minds as we trudge the road.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 2:59:30 PM
good topic(((Jeff))) the traditions are there for a reason and it is important to learn about these aswell as the steps! being an alkie i need rules -as i was a know all and ive become teachable to-day, aRegards L-RAY
Member: Carrie
Location: Los Angeles
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 3:43:08 PM
I think that is the most important aspect of AA - having no outside issues. It can't work any other way!! Could you imagine having to choose between Republican AA, Pro-Choice AA, Vegan AA, on & on we go! Thank God for this program. Thank God we have no leaders who could direct it's members to bash other forms of sobriety (RR) or who could use our program to support other causes. Because of the traditions AA is kept pure and whole. Without the traditions, we would have no AA and that would be death for millions.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 4:10:03 PM
I cannot believe the amount of time spent on the traditions, they are self explanatory.
Member: kelley S
Location: texas
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 5:27:22 PM
Kelley here alcoholic/addict, gratefully clean and sober since 04/04/01. I truely believe the aa traditions have great purpose and meaning. They are guidelines for the alcoholic with a desire to stop drinking. If there were no traditions, or guidelines, aa would then be chaotic with no true meaning. Hence the alcoholic would have nothing to follow to help him achieve sobriety. I thank God everyday for aa and my sobriety, and I pray for those of you who are still searching for a cure all.....Thanks, Kelley
Member: Les
Location: San Diego
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 7:21:27 PM
It would seem that one of the very important aspects of AA surviving for as long as it has is singleness of purpose. While the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking it does presume that the perspective member actually drinks in a manner different from the normal social drinker. Now, why so many meetings not only allow but encourage nonmembers in the form of addicts to participate in "open meetings" is a difficult question to answer. In respect for our singleness of purpose which deals only with recovery from alcoholism attempting to deal with recovery from anything other than alcohol is dangerous business -- Dangerous for the continued effectiveness of AA. The problem is made more complex by the increasing number of alcoholics coming to AA who are addicted to various addictive drugs. One can, supposedly, argue that alcohol is an addictive drug, but scientific studies have shown that other mammals can be addicted to opiates by simply allowing access to the drugs, not so with alcohol. Other studies have shown that the metabolism of alcoholics is different from the metabolism of non-alcoholics in a manner which is quite different from the metabolism of addicts with respect to alcohol. Further complications come from so many AA members with compulsive behavior including eating disorders, gambling, and such. What the answers to these perceived problems are is hidden sometime in the future. The Traditions have insured the continuation of AA for a long time now and, if adhered to, may continue to protect it for a long time to come.
Member: suzyqnj
Location: NJ
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 8:01:33 PM
I'm an Alcoholic. I have also been addicted to drugs, but because I am an alcoholic, I was able to get sober and stay sober in AA. I agree, we have no opinion on outside issues, but I have run into situations where there was a member of a group continually twelfth steping married women, then there was the issue of this meeting haveing disruptive shares that were litterally insulting individuals and calling them names. My home group had an issue with two men fist fighting. Each group should remain anonymous EXCEPT IN MATTERS AFFECTING OTHER GROUPS OR AA AS A WHOLE. We do have a responisibilty to the group and to AA as a whole. Unity..Our common welfare comes first.
Member: Greg A
Location: Indiana
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 9:25:46 PM
I'm Greg and I'm an alcoholic. Jeff, this is a great topic. AA has kept me sober when nothing else could keep me sober. When I first started getting sober, I went to a couple of groups that discussed the traditions on a periodic basis. I have missed these meetings. I thought the meetings on the traditions were boring when I first attended these meetings. But the tradition meetings taught me a lot about the structure of AA and how AA has been able to continue its primary purpose of carrying the message to the suffering alcoholic. I am grateful that AA has no opinion on outside issues, because I would not have come back to AA if it promoted certain opinions when I first started to attend AA meetings. Personally, I have opinions about all kinds of outside issues, i.e., politics, religion, alcohol reform, etc. Some of my opinions are strong, but my opinions about these outside issues is not relevant to anyone staying sober. In fact, my personal opinions might hinder someone's attempt to get sober. So, my opinions on these outside issues should not become the focus of AA meetings and, if I do express an opinion on an outside issue, I pray that everyone will take it for what it is worth--not as an expression of AA.
Member: jody b
Location: homestead florida
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 10:30:15 PM
I am jody b an alcoholic.I am a member of the homestead group in florida. I thank all members that help by observing the traditions,attending mettings, and sharing . It would not have been posible to get sober withought the traditions the steps and the direction of God .thank you all.
Member: cy h.
Location: tx.
Date: 6/15/2003
Time: 11:27:49 PM
hello to all, cy-alcoholic, i've heard it said the traditions are to the group what the steps are to the individual alcoholic. i have been in groups who were suffering from not studying and useing the traditions. as an aa member it is part of my recovery to learn how this program works, while we have no rules here we were left with some guide lines to keep the groups and aa as a whole going after all we all came into this thing sick or we wouldn't stay around and one of the hardest things i have ever done is follow instructions. if you want what we have then do what we did which is study the traditions along with the steps and you will get real recovery. my sponser pretty much told me i didn't know nothing when i got here, so take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth till i had worked the steps and learned the traditions. i am very thankful for undiluted aa it has saved my life!!!!! it says in the bb we have ceased fighting anything or anyone including alcohol. glad to have another sober day they just keep getting better! good week to all!
Member: KIMBERLEY
Location: WOODLAND
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 12:11:03 AM
kimberley here alcholic, im so glad this is the topic this week, les thank you so much for the singleness of purpose reminder, i have seen many a meeting turn into na oa and ga, there are 12 step meetings for those also , there are alot of people who are addicted to other drugs who hide in the rooms of aa, thank god for the traditions and all the longtimers who strive to point those into the right recovery program, i have seen alot of people relapse in aa who should have been in na to begin with,aa seems to be a dumping ground for court systems who order people into treatment but push them the wrong way in treatment centers, . our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other ALCHOLICS TO ACHIEVE SOBRIETY
Member: Carlc
Location: nnm
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 1:44:34 AM
I took the fifth ,sixth, and seventh, steps the way they are outlined in the book, I shared my fourth step with another alcoholic who later used it against me. then I was entirely ready to have God remove these shortcominmgs amd character defects, I humbly asked him to remove them, but for a long time thats all I did , He will no more remove them just because I asked him than he will fix my breakfast in the morning. I had to take action and more action thats why there are 5 more steps after we have done the seventh step. I had to go out and make amends, and take inventory all the time, and the most important that I dont do as well as I should is the eleventh step which puts me in conscous contact with my creator. This spiritual journey is hard but the rewards are awesome.
Member: Bob
Location: UK
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 5:55:33 AM
Hi Bob here. A fairly happy recovering alcoholic. I've been long enough in AA to see that the traditions work - although sometimes they seem pedantic and nit-picking. The essence for me is contained in the preamble and annonymity. I know I can let my hair down (or tear it out) in my home group and it stays there. I've seen a bit of predudice in some groups and it isn't helpfull. Examples are people with predudice against those who were introduced to AA in treatment centers wh have been described as "getting into the fellowship the easy way". I've also been at meetings where policemen, probation officers, social workers etc have been described in quiote uncomplementary terms. Sure, many of us have had less than satisfactory dealings with the authorities and there can be justifiable resentment but ... airing these is little help to fellow alcoholics who are in these professions. Let's keep predudice out of the rooms please and stick to the 'sole purpose'. Anyway it's a good day. I haven't had a drink and I'm gratefull to my HP and to the Fellowship for that.
Member: Mary L
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 6:33:37 AM
Carlc the tropic is about traditions, not about bashing A.A. GOD. or your fellow members. "TRADITIONS" Carl your always so negative with your comments. You have heard about the traditions, have you not?
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 6:53:09 AM
Ron L. and Im an alcoholic, Im the early days of A.A. when Bill W. was shareing at other groups, the members would ask him not to talk about the traditions, but would ask him to talk about his own story " tell us where you hid your bottles " Yeah the traditions have a history of being boring, yet they are so important. As an old timer in A.A. (over 30 yrs)I feel that an important part of my soberity is knowing some things about our history,and the traditions, so I can share on these topics when asked, by some new commer. This is a great topic for us who can share on it, It must be boring for those who can't.
Member: Jay T
Location: Midwest
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 7:29:57 AM
Jay here alcoholic/addict/asshole. Unlike Kimberly, I do not think the traditions of AA were set up to exclude people suffering from other forms of addictions that stem from the same root cause. Where I go to meetings, nobody points out the direction to other meetings because the members do not share the same drug of choice, and if they did I wouldn’t go back there. I choose to believe that our responsibility is to the “person still suffering” not a loyalty to the drug we served. Granted, these are my opinions and should be treated as only that, however, can I afford to turn my back on someone trying to recover just because he/she used a drug that I chose not to use? Isn’t this the kind of moral superiority we are continuously being warned against?
Member: gasman
Location: southeast
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 8:04:55 AM
This is real simple stuff...AA is for the alcoholic PERIOD....We've published pamphlets and I'd suggest to the person who suggests that "we not turn our back on someone trying to recover jsut because he/she used a drug that I chose not to use" read our pamphlet "Problems other than Alcohol"....We just cannot be the solution to all of the problems of the World. When it gets to the point that the process of identification stops because we've diluted our message, then AA will cease to exist and without this program how many will die without ever hearing the CLEAR, PRECISE message of recovery. The very reason the Washingtonians fell apart was becasue of trying to become something they were not. Folks there can be no question about this subject. Our traditions were given to us to keep us from screwing this thing up...we don't have to change a darn thing. This program works for the alcoholic (like me) because I identify with the problem, get hope from your experience, and stay sober because of God whom i found because I work the steps.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 8:19:15 AM
Hi All, Kelly an alcoholic. I like the traditions even though they are cut and dry. I also in my home group see them used over and over not always to everyones liking but the way they are set up to keep AA out of outside contriversy and keep singleness of purpose. Case and point> Our group wanted to contribute to the heating fund for our AA club because we had extra money in our groups pot. Nope, could not give it because it violated the traditions. > Another one is a person that goes to every single meeting at our club and is always causing disruptions and controversy by his vicious gossip. He 13 steps and pits women against eachother in meetings. Has a way of pushing everyones buttons and causing malcontent. Guess what, there is not a damn thing we can do about it! People have tried to get this parasite ousted from the club but short of him commiting violence we can't. AA is to include everyone with a desire to stop drinking and not exclude anyone. Some people abuse their priveleges but it is their program to work or not to work, not mine. > Last example: Someone wanted to start a step meeting with an open format. The first meeting was confusing and a nice guy from NA just happened to have a NA step workbook. He wanted us to each read a paragraph out of it. When it came to me I read the text but where it said (use) I said drink and where it said (narcotic)(drugs) I said alcohol. At the discussion part of the meeting the NA guy said I should just read what the book says because a drug is a drug is a drug. I told him it was an open format meeting and I am an alcoholic and the way I read it should not bother anyone. Well I never went back to that meeting and it is struggling because it has no format or rules and drunks need rules. If we did not have the traditions AA would have been in chaos years ago. Our own constitution allows for abuse by its own design... philibusters and pork etc. I sometimes think the AA traditions better protect the alcoholic then the constitution protects my rights and freedoms as it seems they are creating laws for everything that the government deems not good for us. But I'm not going to go there....politics! All I want to say is I think the traditions work. Thanks for listening. Kelly
Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 10:53:10 AM
Craig here, another real alcoholic (page 21). I dabbled in many drugs over the years and usually abused them, but alcohol was always the underlying theme. It tried to keep me out of the rooms, by telling me I wasn't like you, so I wasn't welcome. The last time alcohol had it's way with me, I wholely entered into step one. I no longer have any doubt what happens when I take even one drink. I respect and fear all drugs, but alcohol is my master. Today, I go to both "open" and closed meetings of AA. I appreciate and respect those who have the calling to be defensive, but frankly I have no energy left for struggle. My vote in my home group is about all I can muster. When I asked God today to show me his will for me. I trust that I will know when and what action I should take today.
Member: Melissa
Location: Canada
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 11:02:04 AM
Thank god for the traditions; I've seen them at work in my home group, over and over again, when personal opinions and frequently, personal egos (grin*) loom the traditions are always called upon, and respect for the format under which AA functions, seems to guide us with as much grace as we can muster. I've heard it said that the steps are to keep us from killing ourselves and the traditions are to keep us from killing each other. As for the alcoholic vs. other addictions question, it does say "willing to go to any lengths" and I've seen more than one person addicted to drugs, identify as an alcoholic, work and live the steps and experience recovery. I find AA in my area very tolerant of drug-addicted folks. They come (and frequently go) but the ones who recover don't make a big meal out of how they are "different". I haven't been sober a very, very long time, but I'm starting to believe that anyone who can get over their ego can get sober (or clean.) The traditions go a long way towards helping us work to the collective good instead of what "I" want, what "I" think is best. What a really great topic, thanks, Jeff!
Member: Jeff
Location: Montreal
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 11:31:24 AM
You know what guys, try this one on for size. Is AA just about not drinking, as nothing has to do with drinking but drinking? Or is AA about way more than just not drinking because everything has to do with drinking? Or is it maybe somewhere in the middle as there are elements of truth to both of those statements? The tradition about having no opinion on outside issues is for AA as a whole, not each individual member as it would obviously be ludicrous to say that nobody has opinions on anything outside of AA, wouldn't it now?? Anyways, it's not cut & dried as some have suggested and if anyone thinks it is, they're not thinking of their fellow man whom may feel and think in the opposite direction and be every bit as "right" as you who think it is "cut & dried" on either side of the argument. Either way, God Bless all and let's all try to respect each others veiws on everything, not just alcohol. Wouldn't THAT be practicing the principles?
Member: angie m
Location: orange county california
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 12:08:05 PM
hi there everyone... i am not sure what the topic is about so if someone could clue me in it would be much appreciated ...thanx
Member: Zeke K
Location: Oil City, Pa
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 12:24:13 PM
Thank God for AA and The Traditions AA is for the suffering Alcoholic. Thank You all for helping me stay Sober One more Day!!!
Member: angie m
Location: orange county
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 5:53:42 PM
ya know i am so glad that we can continually remind ourselves that it truely is just ONE day at a time .......because sometimes i can so freakin overwhelmed with all the stuff that i need to still take care of in order to be a mormal functioning part of soceity ...or maybe its not even that,maybe its all the stuff i need to take care of to make my life alittle easier while i am functioning in the normal world...(meaning getting my liscense back,getting a car ,insurance,,,ugh,...and all that so that i can eventually move out of my sober living home and into somewhere else....and all on my 340.00 week pay yeah that stuff can really stress the hell out of you...) breathe...angie breathe...but then i remind myself just worry about today ...do what needs to be done just for today ....and it will all fall into place...and i have to believe that is true because so far it has proven to happen just that way....it will happen when God plans on it happening ...anything else is just me trying to rush things...trying to force life to unfold as my will desires for it to ....no no no back up and pray ,.....pray to live in gods will to stay in that will...anything else is just to damn exhausting for me........ but i believe that while i am letting things fall in to place ...i must continually take action for anything to ever actually resolve... action action action....
Member: Mike H.
Location: Jackson MI.
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 6:28:10 PM
Mike H, alcoholic. I believe that the traditions keep the groups from falling apart from going in too many directions. A group I used to go to had a tradition meeting at the end of each month. This gave me knowledge about how the groups worked to keep us on the right path. Without these guidelines there would be no groups and without groups there would not be much recovery. I thank God that AA works.
Member: Harry K
Location: UK
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 8:34:38 PM
It's been my experience that in meatings where "anything goes"...NOBODY GOES. The traditions were writen because it was becoming apparent that the message of A.A as a whole, or the behaviour or philosophies of groups around the country had no structure. If A.A was to continue as a fellowship, we had to learn to become a fellowship! The traditions are not "Hot Flashes" from Bill because he got bored. He recognised a genuine need for there to be "guidelines" NOT rules to protect the fellowship from each individuals "idea" as to how A.A should be. The traditions are NOT as someone earlier said "boring". They are a profoundly deep set of spiritual principles which can help us live as a community if we took the time to look back on their history, and study the LONG FORM of the traditions. Of course we are still self-centered individuals trying to improve, but thats why people will always go to the meetings where the focus is on "ME" (step and discussion meetings) to those that involve the "WE" (traditions meetings) I can only suggest if one is as tuely grateful for A.A as so many claim, they take the time to study the traditions as much as they did the steps. The only thing we can lose by NOT doing it, is the fellowship itself. I've seen many meetings turn into "encounter" groups because they have not allowed their groups to adhere to any of the principals behind the traditions. "Common wellfare" isn't very important, "leaders" are not trusted servants because many groups don't have enough people willing to become active in their group, so those that do can't help but "Run it their way". The "only requirement for membership" is little more than a free pass to anyone who wants to come in, many groups become "insulated" because there is no effort to understand A.A as a whole and not just a meeting, and with all of this what kind of message is usually carried to the newcomer who finds their way in? Not very attractive because the real A.A message got lost in all the personal opinions each one of of is sure to bring into the group because we have no real understanding of what these traditions are. If you really want to understand the traditions I would suggest trying to involve yourself somehow in the general service structure of A.A. Become a GSR for your group or involve yourself in the local A.A intergroup office. If none of this is available, at least read the traditions in the 12 & 12 and "A.A comes of age". If your really not interested thats O.K to, just stop telling everyone how grateful you are for A.A. Gratitude often shows itself as service. Like the 12th step is to our recovery, our adherance to the traditions ought to be to maintaining A.A. It saved our lives didn't it?
Member: Tom G.
Location: Saginaw, Mi
Date: 6/16/2003
Time: 9:28:27 PM
Tom, alcoholic. Just as many believe the steps are inspired by God, and Bill talks about letting God discipline us since we tend to be undisciplined, the traditions give structure to our society-a kind of self-discipline for our groups. I know I need structure and discipline, and I appreciate the comments urging us to educate ourselves and each other about the Traditions. The beauty of the program is its simplicity-the only requirement for membership is "a desire to stop drinking" , and the basis of our spirituality being "God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM". I think it shows maturity to study the Traditions as well as the steps. Thanks and a happy 24!
Member: carlc
Location: nm
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 1:16:51 AM
Mary L from phoenix, I apologize for posting here about my 5th step I meant to do it on the 12 and 12 post, but on one thing you are out of your mind or cant read right, I would never bash the MOST HIGH are you crazy or do you think Im crazy Also I dont bash AA, it is the best thing that ever happened to me and I love the program, I love alcoholics and when I see or hear someone lying or decieving one you bet I am going to say something. Thank you.
Member: A.G.
Location: MIDWEST
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 3:52:17 AM
hello alkie here. i think the aa tradtions r guildlines as stated earlier. when reading them its helps just to remember and to look to that higher power. ive been sober for only a short while but when the cravings kick in i look to my higher power to give me strength or go out doors and do something with my child. and atend more aa meetings. good luck to others and pray for me to keep going on. thanks!
Member: Joe
Location: Canada
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 9:20:53 AM
Im Joe and Im alcoholic. I found the traditions BORING when I first came to A.A. Now because of those feelings Harry K from the U.K. would have me stop saying that Im grateful that A.A. saved my life and grateful to be sober for many years. Im am wondering what he would have the members say who quote." fell asleep when Bill the co founder spoke about the traditions at meetings," Or what he would say to those early members who told Bill the co founder quote. " But for heaven sake, please don't talk any more about those damned Traditions!" Would he tell them not to say that there grateful. What would he have the members say,who told Bill the Co founder that the traditions where, quote " nothing more than the sum of my own hopes and fears for Alcoholics Anonymous " If Harry K from the you U.K. wants to see these quotes in print they can be found on page 155 of the book. THE LANGUAGE OF THE HEART. The A.A. Grapevine Inc. New York. If you want to talk about history of A.A. thats one thing if you want to speak from a spiritual hill top thats another.
Member: Steve H
Location: Macksville, Australia
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 10:42:15 AM
I was first introduced to A.A. in 1968 (when 14) but didn't reach my "desperation" point until January 1995, when I finally "came in" on the Third Tradition, not the Third Step.I have remained sober since then due to practicing the 12 Steps but have to continually remember that, without the Traditions, the Fellowship could well have lapsed by now. The Traditions are, for me, how A.A. works and the Steps are how I work A.A.The programme is about Alcoholism and the Steps aid me in looking at the "ISM"(InSideMe) so I don't NEED to pick up the ALCOHOL.A.A. was the place where I learned of my many "grave emotional and mental disorders" (p.58 Big Book) and I keep it simple by simply keeping A.A. as the foundation of my recovery, taking heed of both Steps AND Traditions.
Member: suzyqnj
Location: NJ
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 11:07:33 AM
All this talk about drugs!!! Shocking! In the pamphlet 'Problems other than Alcoholism' it asks can the person addicted to drugs find help in AA, if he is also an alcoholic? The answer is yes. It is in black and white. The name of the story Dr., Alcoholic, Addict may have been changed, but the story didn't. I am an Alcoholic. I had a problem drinking, I could not stop, I am a real Alcoholic-page 21. Part of my experience is that I have also abused Methtamphetamine, LSD, Cocain, Barbituates, Marijuana. I am not hideing out in AA. I am getting and staying sober. Let's not kid ourselves..I no longer use drugs either. I have run accross 'sober' people who still smoke pot. I know people who got sober, and then abused perscription drugs. I know a man who was sobe 10 years and then started smokeing crack, mind you he has still not taken a drink. It's not that alcohol is the root problem, it's not that a drug is a drug, is a drug, it's not that people who are addicts shouldn't be in AA. It is thar I AM AN ALCHOLIC.
Member: Jay T
Location: Midwest
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 11:48:41 AM
Jay again, alcoholic/addict. 11 plus years sober and drug free. I came to AA with multiple addictions that stemmed from my desire to escape the real world and anything that resembled a look inside myself at who I was. My addictions, as well as my addiction to alcohol, brought me in, desperate enough to go to any lengths. I attended NA as well as AA for a brief time, but it was the "better organized" AA meetings in my area that attracted me and kept me coming back. In this online meeting many of us have quoted different passages from many different sources to bolster our argument on the issues. In fact, I'm not quite sure what everyone is argueing about. Are the traditions a good thing? Of course, they are necessary to our continued success. Are they meant to exclude anyone? No! However, people often read them that way. The Twelve and Twelve talks about tradition three and the dilema the early members faced when confronted with a man that wanted to stay sober and drug free.(pages 141-143) Of course they chose to do the right thing and offer him help because they asked themselves what would their higher power do? AA is not broken and continues to work miracles with lost souls such as mine was. My desire to escape is pushed back another day and I can face what life offers up with the knowledge of the firm foundation we have with the steps and the traditions.
Member: robert j
Location: angel beach
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 12:32:25 PM
Tradition Meetings..those are the ones where either no one shows or no one has a clue,kinda like a painfull operation,can we just get this over ?,the politicians and control freaks love these meetings..yes they are necessary,if it were'nt the traditions many of our trusted servants would'nt have a life...startin to sound a little negative,I'm outta here.
Member: visitor
Location: dc
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 1:55:18 PM
I call my higher power Jesus Christ. His big book says, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you. . . " Acts 2:7-8. Sometimes I think i get my higher powers mixed up. Alcohol has power over me, also.
Member: Carol MT
Location: Panama City Beach,FL
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 3:08:00 PM
Hi,CArol, alcoholic...The group that I attend daily, yes,I said daily, stresses that the Steps work hand in hand with the Traditions. They are all there for a reason. Yes, ego's need to be kept under control and my guess is that no matter where the group, there are a couple of egos that erupt daily. Something that is said a lot here in PCB,FL. is that we drank daily so we should get to a meeting daily to keep mentally and spiritually fit. Alcohol is only a symptom of our disease. Thanks for this site.
Member: Kerry C
Location: Texas
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 3:08:07 PM
Kerry here an alcoholic. Good topic Jeff thanks. The group that I attend mostly is not really pure AA. It is a privately financed 1/2 way house. The reason I chose it over more pure AA groups is for the intense focus they place on the Big Book. Most of the guys that end up there come straight from under the bridges with dual addictions, mainly alcohol and crack. They never say they are addicts but rather alcoholics as is mandatory by the house rules. Most admit after some time there, that their drug episodes usually stem from an alcohol problem. The first week there they are only allowed to read the Doctors Opinion and after that they study the Big Book 8-10 hours a day. All of the AA traditions are observed to the letter besides accepting outside contributions, which is vital to provide food, clothing, and shelter for anyone who has a desire to stop drinking. Many of them make it and many don't. The point is that if only pure alcoholics were allowed there many alcoholics would never have the chance to hear the AA message. The house has been operating for over 50 years helping alcoholics and addicts alike with few conflicts. So before we send that new person to NA or elsewhere, maybe allow them to stay in AA long enough to decide whether they have an alcohol problem or not. My guess is that most addicts suffer from alcoholism as well.
Member: HN
Location: MA
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 3:18:35 PM
Hello. I'm a drunk. The court has ordered me to go to meetings. Do you think I could use this website? Is this meeting open? HN
Member: day day day
Location: tame tame tame
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 4:48:29 PM
Keeping to the traditions of AA is the topic, So why are we here, to get sober, yea, for what reason you say, why that you might could pray, you could pray drunk, if you had to you could, in fact, it could be said, that the righteousness of pie is better than why..
Member: Kevin B
Location: NM
Date: 6/17/2003
Time: 8:51:02 PM
hello I am Kevin, Alcoholic. Have not been here for awhile. What is the fuss here. AA is for alcoholic. As with most people, That is every one else, we do not have just one problem. When we get to the rooms we have a great deal of difficulty living life. I had to first put the plug in the jug and decide what I wanted to do with my problems. I read the Big Book, Got a sponsor, Got a home group, learned to pray and worked the steps. From my group and my sponsor I learned the traditions. and how very important they are to the groups survival. If a person wants to get sober more than anything elste they can. It tells us in the bible not to judge a mans heart. We will be judged by the same measure one day. Around our groups we ask that all non alky not share.I LOVe this way of life that I found in AA. Thanks everyone
Member: jess
Location: sc
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 7:58:10 AM
hi all jess/i am addicted to all , so funny to hear people talk abought what and who aa is for have alot of you not read the bb or did i happen to readthe wrong book b/ i rember in the big book it taks abought drugs it talks abought one of the co writers of the book useing drugs i will not tell you who if you read the book then you will know , when i came in to aa i did not know i h ad a drinking problem i thought i had no problems at all with drugs or food or people or with god him self , if they would have turned me away because i was sent by the court for drugs i would not have the 8 years i have today , i would not have found out that i had a drinking problem or any other problem .they where kind to me and help me see that aa was for me that this is a selfless program i am there to help be helpd and learn one day at a time ,they taught me love understanding and mostly patience, they teach me that what you drank or used is ONLY a symtom of my problem the rest was me, but one thing i see on this topic is aa is still the same will all ways be the same as long as we keep doing what we are suppose to be doing opions are like ass holes everyones got one , thank god for the old timers for my sobrity and the new commers who remind me out there is no better then when i left it has gotten worse and there is no cure all for me i live one day at a time with out anyht ing but god aa and my self to help me ....
Member: Nancy M
Location: Upstate NY
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 9:53:47 AM
Hi, Nancy - alcoholic, great topic, I heard a speaker say once there are two types of people in the rooms of aa those who have worked the steps and those who haven't. The ones that have are practicing patience & tolerance towards the one that haven't. The ones that haven't worked the steps are taking everyone's inventory. If I'm working the program then someone talking about drugs is not going to upset me that much, unless they repeatly do it. Then I think possibly it is up to me to say something to them after the meeting. I know when I first came into the rooms and admitted that yes I am a alcoholic and I was powerless over alcohol, I was so confused that I didn't understand the traditions or even what they were about. But the longer I stayed around they started to have some meaning. Thank God though that no one told me to shut up or yell at me for talking about things I shouldn't. I was repeatly told I was in the right place and to keep coming back. That saved my life and gave me a life worth living, now I do understand the traditions, and am thankful for them. At the same time I'm not going to kick some newcomer out just for saying he's a addict. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: suzanne b
Location: kennewick, wa
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 4:05:26 PM
I am here because I got a dui and mistakenly took a deferred prosecution instead of negligent driving. It only took me one treatment meeting to realize I had made a mistake and I have been undergoing "treatment" since 2/17/02. I realized quickly I am not an alcoholic since I quite drinking immediately and after a couple weeks I didn't even miss the alcohol and have had no problem since. The only problem I have is the EXPENSE of the treatment meetings and MONOTONY of listening to people crying and moaning. I loathe the AA meetings and that is why I am on this cyber site. Later.
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 5:47:08 PM
Hi All, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. I like the traditions. The traditions to me are to help the group, yes, a heathly group will WANT to follow the traditions. They are not about force, they are about willingness. ALSO, and very important, the traditions are for ME to help ME practice living, and practice living with others in the group, in my family, at work, everywhere. To me, they're excellent guidelines, for example (I'm paraphrasing here): 1)The wellfare of the group comes first (which helps me learn how to become a part of a group (not be so terminally unique & different), and maybe discuss my annoyances, strong opinions, 'crap from the past', etc with sponsor/another person after/before the group mtg, especially when I'm new and raw), 2)Accept others and turn to HP for personal guidance(be tolerant of people who make mistakes, don't do it my way, etc), 3)A DESIRE to stop drinking is all a person needs to belong(if they say they want to stop drinking, they're a member, whether they also do lots of drugs, paint themselves purple, whatever)4)I can do/become/think whatever I want, but I don't have the right to hurt my group or AA as a whole; I need to be a positive part of my group and AA as a whole - be involved and be happy about it/work at it 5)Carry the message(if you don't know what 'the message' is, it's THE SOLUTION. If you don't know what the solution is(or what the problem is), please talk with your sponsor/at meetings)6-12 you can do the same with. I was told to take the steps and traditions off the wall, and put them to work in my life. They help me become 'one amoung my fellows' which is something I never was when I was drinking. I'm very grateful we still struggle with keeping the traditions alive. It's evident by this meeting that we are all thinking, decision making people. Using my willpower grow into more sober thinking/decision making is another way to look at using the traditions in my life. Thanks, see you next week.
Member: Mark H
Location: CA
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 6:30:29 PM
AA was primarily designed for helping alcoholics achieve sobriety. Why alcohol? Because alcohol is not only legal, but is the most wide spread substance of abuse there is. Other substances illegal or not, may also play a part for some, but alcohol still tends to be the root for most substance abusing folks. The 12 steps were designed to help the alcoholic achieve and stay sober. The 12 traditions were designed to keep AA together as a whole. Both are always read out loud at meetings for the sake of the new-comer, and to reinforce the mind of the sober alcoholic. Both go hand in hand in AA spiritually speaking, because without the structure of the steps and traditions, AA would turn into something else unknown, or possible vanish altogether. Religion and/or politics could easily corrupt a structureless AA, and turn many hopeful and needy alcoholics away in dispare and disgust. The bible also like AA, is structured to help people spiritually speaking, as well as not become involved in worldly interests. The main ingrediant of both is spirituallity, and both are structured to keep unity in themselves. God "as creator" in the bible is the main focus spiritually, and only draws in a minority of spiritual seekers. God "as what you make him" in AA, instead focuses on drawing in those addicted to alcohol physically and mentally, while yet not turning those away who don't have religious beliefs. I believe both the bible and AA were designed by the same real but invisible God, but for different purposes. Interestingly the bible also deals with the alcohol issue however, but in a more direct and scolding manner, but without a solution to the problem: "Isaiah 5:11: Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, [that] they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them! {inflame: of, pursue}". No true hardcore alcoholic can deny the harsh truth in this above verse, but the solution still lies in AA, and not in the bible.
Member: Carol
Location: South Jersey Shore
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 9:29:53 PM
Mark, your comments might represent California AA, but they don't represent World Wide AA. I believe one message that is carried is "keep it simple". Anyone ever been to an AlAnon meeting? They insist in their opening statements that if you belong to another 12 Step program, don't discuss it here. Why are we in AA being strong armed into letting anyone talk about anything in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous? Identify with the problem (alcohol)and provide a solution (the steps).
Member: Manny
Location: Down Under
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 10:48:54 PM
Carol, you would do well to heed your own warning as you don't speak for AA worldwide either darlin. Mark H. from Cali articulated a very intelligent and obviously well-informaed point that I find quite refreshing to the standard "exclusivity" that is sometimes glowingly apparent in AA everywhere. To attack him for not espousing the same point of view as you is not only unthinking, but extremely saddening. I know AA as well as anyone I've ever met and I don't know very much, so to try and tell others what AA is and isn't in good ole Cali or South Jersey or anywhere else is actually quite ludicrous. That being said, I obviously wish you and all well in their individual journeys as I become more and more aware of not how little I know(although that too applies) but that there is One whom has ALL power!! He's the same One as Mark stated and he knows what I, you, Mark, and everyone else on the planet knows and then some!!!!!!!!! That's what I become more keenly aware of and I can't wait to ask him a few questions about AA when I get there as He's the only One with the answers to my deepest questions of it worldwide and maybe even universally. Hey, you think the Martians have AA for the drunks on their planet????
Member: Manny
Location: Down Under
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 10:50:18 PM
Carol, you would do well to heed your own warning as you don't speak for AA worldwide either darlin. Mark H. from Cali articulated a very intelligent and obviously well-informaed point that I find quite refreshing to the standard "exclusivity" that is sometimes glowingly apparent in AA everywhere. To attack him for not espousing the same point of view as you is not only unthinking, but extremely saddening. I know AA as well as anyone I've ever met and I don't know very much, so to try and tell others what AA is and isn't in good ole Cali or South Jersey or anywhere else is actually quite ludicrous. That being said, I obviously wish you and all well in their individual journeys as I become more and more aware of not how little I know(although that too applies) but that there is One whom has ALL power!! He's the same One as Mark stated and He knows what I, you, Mark, and everyone else on the planet knows and then some!!!!!!!!! That's what I've become more keenly aware of and I can't wait to ask him a few questions about AA when I get there as He's the only One with the answers to my deepest questions of it worldwide and maybe even universally. Hey, you think the Martians have AA for the drunks on their planet????
Member: AnilG
Location: Mt Vernon,IL
Date: 6/18/2003
Time: 11:56:04 PM
AA about AA I think this tradition started by our forefathers was well written we all are sober becouse of help from the group who share there strength hope and experiance.keeping annonimity. God bless that we all continue to our part and get the benefit from these meetings. thanks to aa alanon,
Member: Bill W
Location: Shattuck Ok.
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 6:18:12 AM
My name is Bill W. I am a alcoholic/drug addic. I have been sobar and clean for five years now. The reason for the 12 steps and the 12 tradition is so that we don't get out of foccis of why we are realy here. These are guide line that we follow (in my oppion) to cope with life.Whithout them where will we be at? it is so that we can foccis on our alcohol problem, and leave the rest of the world outside.
Member: Porcupine
Location:
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 7:38:57 AM
My Name is Tittus and Im an alcoholic. Traditions and drug addicts. At a closed A.A. meeting a drug addict showed up and asked if he could stay for the meeting. all except one member who was just short of a year of sobriety said it would be okay if the drug addict stayed. As a matter of fact the alcoholic said that he would leave if the drug addict stayed. The drug addict stayed, the alcoholic left. I was the alcoholic who left. I was the alcohlic who was sacrifice for a drug addict at a closed A.A. meeting. Thank goodness I was transfered out of that town and found another group to stay sober in. Funny thing the addict returned for a few more closed meetings then stopped going as he said he diden't need any more meetings We had only one A.A. group in that town
Member: They don't make Jews
Location: Like Jesus anymore
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 9:39:04 AM
That's sad porcupine. However, you've no one to blame but yourself as nobody made you leave that meeting, nor any other meeting. You're free to make your own choices, as are we all, but you are not free to choose whether those choices are right or wrong, that my dear friend is God's job!
Member: Bob B
Location: Vanderbilt, Mi
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 1:03:06 PM
Bob here, alcoholic. I wonder what AA would be like if they had banned all druggies from AA in the beginning because for those of you that don't know AA's history, Doctor Bob, our co-founder was the first addict to enter AA. Read his story. He is also one of the writters of the Traditions. Odd huh? Should we kick him out? Curious I am. God bless all of you.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 1:37:26 PM
NA was started by the the man who wrote the story Doctor, alkie, addict in the bb--check the history---it's true,,,,,
Member: SJD
Location: NW
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 3:48:28 PM
Hello everyone great topic this week, I just wanted to say that keeping the topic of AA strictly to AA is essential. The only way to address the issue is to focus on the issue, so if we allow other issues to become involved, then we loose sight of the initial focus. Therefore the only way to fully address the issue of AA, is to not allow other issues and events to become a part of the meetings. However, I also think that AA is about creating and finding a support group, and this is essential in recovery.
Member: SOBER FOR TODAY
Location: IN THE WORLD OF MADDNESS
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 4:02:10 PM
Porcupine I think you need alot more meetings and you have alot more to learn it was your felt you left the meeting sorry but I think you need to learn more about tolerence and a open MIND its all in the books read and get over it its all about you and how bad you want it to stay SOBER I sorry but I think you need more meeting with drug addicts stop judging people your there for you do whatever it takes to stay SOBER can't change people places or things go to meetings learn want you can take want you can and leave the rest I beleave the hole world is sick were just trying to get buy one day at a time SOBER
Member: joe s.
Location: Michigan Rezdog
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 4:29:59 PM
joe, alcoholic. the steps are there so i don't kill myself, the traditions are there so we don't kill our group and the concepts are there so we don't kill a.a. something i learned at the international in minneapolis. but what do i know ... i'm just a tradition three alkie. peace and frybread grease!
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 6:45:16 PM
Here we go again with the alcoholic addict nonsense. Why would a drug addict want to go to AA alcohol contrary to popular bullshit alcohol is not a drug, alcohol is a colorless, odorless liquid used for fuel or as an intoxicant. I am an alcoholic but I used every single drug I could get my hands on, but I am not unique I am just an Alcholic. I drank shaving lotion, vanilla extract, listerine, scope, and anything else with alcohol, how should I introduce myself? I am an alcoholic and and a and a and a and a this is just more bullshit created by people who are not interested in a spiritual answer to their problem. The guy that wrote alcoholic addict was more full of shit than a christmas turkey. acceptance is not the answer to all my problems action is. Also nothing happens in Gods world by mistake borders on heresy. If you accept the fact that your wife is sleeping with you next door neighbor you dont belong in AA you belong in the laughing academy. As for these other people trying to sell their bullshit, it must not work very good because for 15 dollars the whole world would be sober why would we need this higher power if 15 measly dollars would turn the trick?
Member: Frank B
Location: New York City
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 7:48:04 PM
Im Frank alcoholic sober since 1954. A close A.A. meeting is for alcoholics and Tittus You where right to leave that meeting because the minute they invited a non alcohlic to sit in on it the meeting was no longer closed. If gamblers, the obese, sex aholicis, shop aholics,chocoholics, all wanted to sit in on A.A. meetings we would then be able to call our selfs THE WASHINTONIANS And we all know what happened to them. If A.A. was for addicts of all kinds. then why do they have all those other groups such as ( N.A.) C.A.( G.A.) S.A.( O.A.) They could all show up at closed A.A. meetings Its okay for a alcoholic with a drug problem to come to A.A. Its not okay for a drug addict to sit in on a closed A.A. MEETING IF HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH ALCOHOL. Tittus Im am very proud of you for keeping A.A. for alcoholics We need more members like you
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 9:48:57 PM
Wow, you guys are all nuts over this silly topic!!! Carlc. ole buddy, ya had me rollin on the floor in hysterics you are sooooo funny. Thanks I needed a good, hearty laugh, only problem is your a little off base sometimes and you always think you're the final word for some reason. Just a thought old buddy, don't bite back too hard unless you're ready to throw down as I'm not the typical chump that hangs out around this site, rest assured. Your opinions, and that's all they are, are generally excellent as well as direct, they are NOT however authoritative. And what's with all the references to Christianity if you're not Christian? Are you just afraid to claim to be "anything" besides an alcoholic or what's the deal my friend?? Remember, be easy on me or be prepared for battle as I'm simply trying to understand you a little better is all, o.k. dude??
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 6/19/2003
Time: 11:55:13 PM
Johnson from Colorado, one of the wisest men I have known told me once to always stand for something because if you dont you will fall for anything, My beliefs are my beliefs and I dont apologize for them and they are borne out of many years of hard knocks and experience. I dont try to convert anyone to my way of thinking. because when all is said and done we all stand alone with God, amd everyone is responsible for their own walk. When it comes to alcoholics I simply refuse to lie to one. I believe love and trust in Christ, but he was not a christian he was a jew.I have nothing against organized religion, they have been giving people purpose for a long time I just dont practice religion of any sort. Cristianity was started I believe by Constantine to make sure all the tithed were accounted for, they were impressed with the teachings of the apostle Paul.
Member: aa
Location:
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 12:31:52 AM
carlc.....christian defined means follower of christ......how can you acknowledge christ and then not understand what it means to be a christian.....christianity has been hurt for centuries by a lack of understanding.......
Member: June R
Location: Prince Albert Sask
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 2:44:06 AM
My name is June and Im an alcoholic. Well said Frank from N.Y.C. Your comment is why I look and listen to old timers. You truly must be an elder states man. Thank You
Member: Mark H
Location: CA
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 2:59:55 AM
This posting is response to Carlc's opinion of the alcoholic addict. Although alcohol is not technically referred to as a drug, it has all the basic characteristics of many other well known drugs, such as; marijuana, speed, cocaine, etc... in that it affects the body and mind, and is an addictive substance. AHD definition: "drug... 2. A chemical substance, such as a narcotic or hallucinogen, that affects the central nervous system, causing changes in behavior and often addiction." The question I propose is that, is it right for AA to turn away people in need of spiritual guidance... regardless of their addictive substance of choice? The alcohol and drug addict who shows up at an AA meeting, is there for the same basic reason the sole alcoholic is there... and that is for help and guidiance. Outside of AA alcohol and drugs are classified together as abusive substances, and the treatment for each is similar in many ways. Total abstinance is the goal, along with a guideline for sober living. AA can provide this help by removing the need for an addicted person to escape chemically from lifes problems, if they stay with the programs priniples. The only reason alcohol is given so much importance in AA is because it is; socially acceptable, legal, and the most widespread and easiest to obtain of all the abusive and addictive substances. Alcohol also has the biggest track record in the book, and is mentioned quite frequently in the bible itself. Other drug substances such as; marijuana, speed, cocaine, etc... either existed among a minority, or were unknown of in the distant past. Remember as stated in AA meetings, that alcohol is merely a symptom of the disease called alcoholism. The spiritual priciples learned in the 12 steps however apply to much more than even fact of keeping sober, be it alcohol or drugs or both. Interestingly enough, many of the alcoholics at AA meetings, were also involved in other drugs as well as the booze. They came to AA to learn how to leave all of the bad stuff behind them, and embrace a new way of life... not to nitpick over trivial matters, concerning who is welcome at an AA meeting. Of course since alcohol is the primary interest in AA meetings, the other drug user should merely sit and listen and learn... how he too could benifit from this programs prinicples of recovery, because deep down inside that's really what AA is all about.
Member: Johnson
Location: Colorado
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 11:26:58 AM
Frank B from "the city" is out of touch with the alkie of today's culture if he/you believe AA is only about alcohol and nothing else. Likewise it is not about just not drinking now, NOR was it EVER. You haven't drank since 1954 huh? SO WHAT???? What HAVE you done is the question God is concerned with, not what you, I or anyone hasn't done, that's just stupid?? God Bless ya man but you obviously still have a lot of growing to do just like the rest of us and I for one don't bow to anyone just because they haven't drank alcohol for a period of time, neither have I---and SO WHAT? applies to me also as far as that category goes. Carlc., I appreciate your reply immensely even though whoever posted anonymously is right and your historical facts are incorrect that's fine. I truly appreciate your posts and they are generally right on the money for the most part, don't let these naysayers get you down..........
Member: Darius
Location: London UK
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 12:40:30 PM
mmmm well I get pissed off at alanon- it's most of them that can be blamed for aa members problems. There I feel better for getting that off my chest. The hell it matters as long as we help each other out who ever we r + whatever problems we have.
Member: THATS FUNNY
Location: THANKS
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 1:48:21 PM
Carlc who are you to say you dont belong in AA you belong in the laughing academy If you don't accept the fact that your wife is sleeping with you next door neighbor if she is your hurting no one but yourself accept it if its true your FUNNY Frank sometimes I think that the old timers think that they did it this way they did it that way theres no other way great it work for them they don't see it any other way and they get angry that they can't see it any other way because they did it there way everybody should do it there way WRONG they can't see it any other way don't get mad but you will sorry
Member: THATS FUNNY
Location: THANKS
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 1:48:55 PM
Carlc who are you to say you dont belong in AA you belong in the laughing academy If you don't accept the fact that your wife is sleeping with you next door neighbor if she is your hurting no one but yourself accept it if its true your FUNNY Frank sometimes I think that the old timers think that they did it this way they did it that way theres no other way great it work for them they don't see it any other way and they get angry that they can't see it any other way because they did it there way everybody should do it there way WRONG they can't see it any other way don't get mad but you will sorry
Member: Peter s
Location: uk
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 5:49:52 PM
I am with titus and frank.I am an alkie who is also a hard drug user.Sober 12 years now active in gb service structure. Junkies have at times overwealmed the meetings in my town.Even though the secretary explains its an closed meeting,they still come.The dozen or so treatment centers in town tell em its ok.Ho hum life goes on.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 6:00:35 PM
Alanon is for losers and they are a bunch of idiots with no life as are most aa's
Member: Jerry
Location: Malibu
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 8:27:40 PM
Thanks MarkH. from Cali. you are a welcome addition to this site. You make well-articulated points that are actually fact-based instead of just opinion, unfortunately that's something different than normal AA standards.
Member: Joy S
Location: Chas, SC
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 9:41:00 PM
Good God! Sometimes the other person is just doing what they feel they need to do, and its not a personal thing against anyone else. I've also been at plenty of ill attended tradition meetings in my home group. One recently on anonimity where a sharer with some time outed several celebrities! I feel like yelling "are you a complete moron?" every now and then. Other times I am moved to tears or I hear something I need for my journey. But to me its like this. I'm on a boat with all these other humans fighting addictions of all sorts. Sometimes I choose to jump into the fray, other times, I sit back. Sometimes its amusing and some times its not. Sometimes we all play fast and loose with each other when we feel threatened. I've given up fighting with everyone and everything, but i do stand for what I believe. Help the suffering alcholic is what I have the experience to do. I've been in the rooms of my group long enough to know that we all go through phases, individualy and as a fellowship. New personalities come in and sometimes people click and sometimes they don't. Nobody rules so joe timid doesn't get drowned out by miss my way.Beautiful that, and thats what the traditions give us. We take it for granted sometime, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be having to argue all this out with you guys or my home group! Some people like to talk about everyone and that just makes me uncomfortable, and I feel its potentialy damaging to both newcomers and those who have been around and now feel secure in their sobriety. I think its important to see the intent of the traditions- to quell conflict so we can all concentrate on our sobriety and the sobriety of those yet to come. How can anyone live principles over personalities in an ever evolving group of drunks without the willingness to change? My home group is the ship I'm in and all I have to do is what I should be doing ODAAT. Hopefully nobody is going into the drink! I love those nuts, they helped me get sober and they help me stay sober!
Member: siobhan c.
Location: washington
Date: 6/20/2003
Time: 10:56:11 PM
what a week for comments! i don't know what to say to anyone about drug addicts vs. alkies. i can only focus on my sobriety. beating up other addictions and groups takes away from the purpose and goal of sites like this one, and is a waste of my energy. i have precious little to go around as it is. if your an alkie, druggie, etc. i don't much care. just so long as you can respect the forum. which takes us back to the actual topic for the week: traditions, or keeping aa about aa. it is still all about ADDICTION. just for me, but you could be addicted to asparagus and i wouldn't care so much as long as your story, philosophy, whatever helped me stay sober one more day. thanks for letting me share.
Member: joe t.
Location: ca
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 1:29:23 AM
Don't distress yourself over others right now. Remember, this is a selfish program. We have to think of our own soberity and not someone elses. You are sober and that is all that matters. You can not make anyone else sober. They have to want it for themselves. If you have a Big Book read "There is a solution" Many questions are answered in that chapter. Also, you can't help others till you help yourself. I guess what I'm trying to say is just work on yourself and others will see what you have and may want it or may not, that is their choosing, not yours
Member: Jean D
Location: FL
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 1:44:15 AM
THIS IS NOT, I SAY NOT A SELFISH PROGRAM!!!!!!!! The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous states: Selfishness, self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our Troubles. IF you continue to think that you need to be selfish you will surely drink again, and if you are like me, to drink is to die. Please read the big book with another alcoholic or at a big book meeting. The correct answers are in there. And yes. you do have to put your soberiety first before everything else which if you do, puts you as far from selfishness as you can get. because this is a spiritual program and it teachs us to think of others (something this alcoholic never did) first! Please dont fall into the trap of you have to help yourself first... as by helping others you are helping yourself and working with another alcoholic is the ONLY way you will stay sober. This is the spiritual way of life the big book talks about.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 4:02:14 AM
idiots!!!!!!!!!!!
Member: steve e
Location: gr, mi
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 12:39:17 PM
sober since 4-3-85. based on many of the comments i see here the traditions are alive and well and definitely needed to protect the AA program from drunks like me. I have learned that the real message of AA (and the best kept secret in AA) is the concept of selfish altruism, that is, all actions are selfish, but some are selfish at others expense and others are selfishly protecting the wellbeing of everyone. when maturity begins we start to see that without the welbeing of the group as a whole we cannot individually live. if the group thrives that allows me to survive. that is selfishly altruistic!
Member: Linda M
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 2:02:41 PM
I probably have not give the traditions enough of my attention. I should look them up, yes? Anyways I am writing to challenge the disease concept. I have never really accepted this idea. For years it troubled me that even though I had sought sobriety through AA, I could not honestly say that I had suffered any physical signs of addiction to alcohol; further I hardly identified with the stories in the Big Book. (sigh) While I realize that the continued use of alcohol may one day bring me to such lows--I am still unable to see this as evidence of a disease. I quit drinking at the age of 20 and remained sober until the age of 31. I then drank for another 7 years. Today I am once again, gratefully sober. At 31 I did not pick up where I left off. It took several years for me to catch up to the point I'd been at when I was 20 years old. And even then things never really got as bad, since all my years with the AA program had taught me to be more accepting, and peaceful in my social encounters. (thank goodness) It was difficult to reach the point where I would seek out sobriety. I was afraid I might never get there. Thankfully I realized I had a choice in the matter. It took me several weeks to focus on it, but it worked. I made the decision to be a non-drinker and with that decision, I was better able to see myself as a sober person once again. I have been sober for 6 weeks now. It is a small step on the long road, but I am grateful to be making these steps today. I do not experience withdrawl symtoms, and I am not angry about my need to quit partying--so then I wonder, do I really fit in here? The only requirement for AA is the desire to stop drinking. I want to be sober, I have the desire.....but I do not recognize it as a disease....because I have a choice....to drink or not to drink...and I have decided not to drink today. Thank God for free-will. Peace.
Member: Rarely
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 2:14:39 PM
I think the obese, the gambler, cocain didict the pill popper, the sex addict And even a fatty from F.A. should all come to A.A. be the chairperson at closed A.A. meetings for a six month stint. Im sure they all could share and tell the alcoholic what he - she has to do to stay sober. Maybe just maybe thats why Tittus left that A.A. meeting. Does it really take a rocket scientist to figure out that the first word in A.A. stands for ALCOHOLICS........ Happy Birthday 21 yrs of sobriety to my wife and my love Donna R.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 5:06:50 PM
Its all so simple, when I get a toothache do I run to the foot doctor? How many skinny women go to Jenny Craig? I dont go to the eye doctor if I fell and broke my arm. The tradition says the only requirement is the desire to stop drinking, how much simpler can it get? My car needed struts so I took it to a mechanic who does that type of work, I didnt take it to get it painted although both people work on cars.
Member: Mark H
Location: CA
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 6:36:55 PM
If an alcoholic stops drinking and achieves sobriety, but still continues to abuse other drugs... eventually they will probably fall back into the same pit of misery and darkness they are trying to climb out of, and their claim to sober living will merely be a joke... whether or not they ever touch alcohol again. It would simply be their denial of the spiritual priciples of AA, to continue abusing any addictive substance. Although other non-chemical addictions may also play a part in ones lifestyle, these purely physcological addictions are in a class by themselves, and therefore need to be dealt with outside of AA. Alcohol and other drugs however regardless of their differing characters, usully with abuse create mental and physical problems which are very hard to overcome without complete abstinence, and a program for living without the need to escape life by using of chemicals. Something which AA is well designed to handle, if we stop bickering over trivialities.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 7:01:05 PM
Good for you Linda from Detroit!! Finally someone with some brains on this page. It is obviously NOT a disease except maybe a disease of volition, but not a "medical disease" as such. That is widely disputed within the professional community but stupid aa'ers just act like it's automatic and it relieves them of any responsibility, how pathetic. Anyway, glad to see you can still think for yourself, but if you hang around too long, they'll likely convince you that your wrong and you'll start parroting the same disease crap they do too.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 7:03:18 PM
Member: Carlos Location: Venezuela Date: June 21, 2003 Time: 03:48 AM Comments Jean sweetie-pie, you're absolutely insane if you actually think the stupid big book has all the answers and that the only way to stay sober is to work with other alkies. That's just standard AA rhetoric and it's not only UNthinking, as the big book itself readily admits(pg.82), but downright STUPID. Maybe you better try reading the book a little closer and thinking about it without the AA brainwashed mentality that is so glaring in most every most on this site. I know you think it's great and you're helping others, but the bottom line is you're NOT! You may in fact be harming them by feeding them the standard line of AA crap about the bb and just not drinking, so please, don't deny the fact it's for you and you alone(the very definition of selfish) as while you most certainly believe you're not, you're only fooling yourself. God Bless you and maybe you'll truly come to see the light one day, but your post is frightening at this point.
Member: some drunk
Location: earth
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 8:18:17 PM
I am selfish by nature, thats who i am!!!I dont have to think of trying to be selfish,,hahaha,, i need a way out and god provides for me on a daily basis if i ask, and i do every day. just your typical chump here with a huge ego,,, keep it simple folks
Member: some drunk
Location: earth
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 8:24:47 PM
one more thing,,"to drink is to die"??? ive known many drunks in my family and friends who drink forever,, maybe you should say die spiritually?? die!!!!! what is that are we living in fear, or trying to scare people??i take my sobriety deadly serious,, but cmon,,
Member: Jeff T.
Location: Ne.
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 10:30:32 PM
This is Jeff, I`m a Alcoholic. I started the topic for this week, i think? This has been a typical AA meeting thats for sure. Start on one topic & ends with another. Well without knowing everones soberiety date (mine is 3/10/89) i can tell who has less that 10 years & who dont have or use a sponser. Some of the things we learn in AA comes slowly, some faster. Anyway my sponser told me once that everthing i hear in a AA meeting i can use sometime in my life. Whether i think it was a good meeting or not. Thank you all for your posts. Live & learn....Jeff
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 11:42:06 PM
jeff ole boy ya needs to learn one more thing with all your years of soberness---how to spell sponsor ya dam idiot/////////////
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/21/2003
Time: 11:42:16 PM
jeff ole boy ya needs to learn one more thing with all your years of soberness---how to spell sponsor ya dam idiot/////////////
Member: Carlc
Location: nm
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 12:26:45 AM
Jean D from Florida, you are right but you have to be careful how you word things on these posts because there are people who have nothing better to do than disect every single word and make you out to be some kind of idiot. It happens to me all the time, not only here but in meetings. In Bills story his friend promised him when these things were done, the steps, he would have the elements of a way of living that would solve all his problems. In step twelve it says practical experience shows that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. This is our twelfth suggestion, Cfarry this message, the steps, to other alcholics. Stick to your convictions and the action in the book and you wont have to worry about people that put you down, because you will have the sunlight of the spirit with you.
Member:
Location:
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 1:14:12 AM
carlc is an stupid asshole---and wrong to boot
Member: Ali-C
Location: Hiroshima
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 1:38:54 AM
Greetings, Focus is indispensable to bringing anything about including sobreity. Keeping AA about alcoholism, and nothing else, is essential to the effectivness of it. However, discussing addiction in general, on the margins, does not harm anything either, so long as it does not become the main focus. Addiction is the accumulation of small modifications to the brain structures over time. Different substances generate brain micro modifications in different ways. This decitates dealing with the various addictions according to the severity and the speed of accumulation of the damage. Alcohol damage, seems to be more reversible than others. That is one of the main reasons AA is effective. REgards.
Member: mama
Location:
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 1:45:03 AM
carl your cool when ya wanna be,, go to a face to face meeting
Member: some drunk
Location: earth
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 1:59:06 AM
i was just bablin earlier and didnt mean no harm, i guess i get frustrated somtimes like everyone, just some of the sayings i hear kinda dont always mesh with what i experiance i have and i do believe the big book is a manuel for me to live by, selfish and selfcenteredness is my problem and i need to find a way free of that or it can kill me and the steps provide that for me,, i think its interesting how the very first followers of christ were going to name themselves "the Way" and the big book was going to be titled " the way out" i just find that interesting doesnt mean im pushin anything be the best in what you believe in. i think, so god bless everyone and keep postin everyone, its all good!! go carl
Member: Andrew
Location: Florida
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 2:17:48 AM
I was sober for 5 months!!!! Then I let my machoism, or whatever!!! get the better of me!!! I watched your notes to other's and do not like what I see!!! AA is about recovery! You people seem to be best at arguing about stuff that really isn't importantant. I got back to drinking tonight and would rather get back to "SOBRIETY" I need sobriety and I need HELP!!!!!! Sobriety is the issue!!! The TRADITIONS are very important, as this is why the program works!!! BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS "SOBRIETY"!!! Can anyone respond to "SOBRIETY"???
Member: 4 GOD sakes
Location:
Date: 6/22/2003
Time: 6:33:58 AM
Andrew You seem to know so much about about what A.A. is about, What people are arguing about that isent important, and what you need you say is sobriety. you say you need help, cause you went back drinking. Funny if you just had 5 months of sobriety. help must have been staring you in the face. could it be that your so smart that when you were offered the help that all of the rest of us got that you said, "you diden't need that kind of help," That my friend would be called EGO. Go back to where you where getting the help that got you 5 months of sobriety. This place is full of all kinds of intresting comments and a lot of the post are anti- A.A. some by drug addict, others by people who have never drank and threw up and drank some more. Go back to where you know real help is... you won't find what your looking for here, ARGUING you bet we like doing it here, you on the other hand can't seem to handle it. So go back to where you have been for the past 5 months. and if you ever come back here do it with tonguein cheek