Member: Greg A
Location: Indiana
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 9:46:25 AM
Hi--I'm Greg, an alcoholic. I went to my home group meeting, yesterday morning, and came away with a renewed understanding of the relationship between resentments and gratitude/acceptance. The topic at my home group meeting was resentments. I didn't have a chance to talk at the meeting, but I listened to what others had to say. As the conversation developed around the room, I began to see that I cannot have a resentment if I am grateful for what God has given me. I am, most often, resentful toward my wife. But I am also deeply thankful to God for putting my wife in my life. The resentment is usually because my wife wants something done differently than I do (often involving how we raise our kids or spend our money). When I see my wife as an obstacle to what I want, I am resentful. But when I see her as the gift from God that she is, I am grateful for her. I was reminded of the story in Dr. Alcoholic, Addict in the Big Book (3rd ed.)(Now, Acceptance was the Answer, Big Book 4th ed. p. 407). On page 418 of the 4th ed., the author of Acceptance was the Answer says: "Acceptance has been the anwer to my marital problems." He explains that if he focuses on his wife's defects, he sees her as defective. And if he focuses on her good qualities, he sees her as a wonderful person. Acceptance and gratitude make my relationship with my wife a better relationship. Acceptance and gratitude improve any part of my life.
Member: Jay T
Location: Midwest
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 10:10:46 AM
Good Morning, Jay here, alcoholic addict. 11 years sober. I was reading recently about how we in AA should go easy on the God stuff. I agree with this because I personally was turned off by the mention of God when I first came to the fellowship. I remember becoming upset after being sober for a short time when people spoke of God at 1st step tables. I came to AA to get sober not religion, and after being here awhile, I became and remain convinced that the continued "testimonials" were not benifitting newcomers and were, in fact, alienating many. As anyone that has been around for a while will tell us, the trick is to hang around long enough for the miracle. The miracle eventually does happen because we continue to come until we come to then come to believe. What we believe in does not matter so much as the experiences that drive us toward that belief. Have a good week and thanks for the Sunday morning ramble.
Member: Melissa B.
Location: Canada
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:17:43 AM
Yes, but that's a bit tricky, isn't it, Jay? Leaving out the "God" stuff? Because AA doesn't have a spiritual component, it is a spiritual program. I had a huge problem with anything to do with "God", and I am just so grateful that somehow, someway, I came to see that "God" can be a kind of code word for people like me. (Not for everyone, just for people like me who get their backs up at the mere mention of "God". Part of my disease was a tightly closed mind that couldn't let in any new information or see another point of view and finally it was desperation to quit drinking that opened up that tiny mind a bit. I have come to believe that a Higher Power is working in my life (still prefer not to use "God" - my choice, my life) and also have discovered that it is better for me to try to live by spiritual principles like honesty, and courage, and tolerance than to do it the old way, my way that just didn't work. So to me, AA is about a Higher Power and Spiritual Princliples rather than anything smacking of God and Religion. AA is far looser and forgiving and inclusive than the religion of my childhood, and I seem to be able to breathe here, and grow up. Maybe it's the language of AA and God that keeps some people away, I don't know; the term Higher Power is pretty inclusive and all-encompassing. The mention of anything spiritual can be a deal-breaker for some of us, though, I'm just glad, as I said, for that tiny mind opening that I experienced. Thanks for letting me share, Melissa
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 12:36:57 PM
Greg when i first came to the fellowship i was full of fear and resentments, but the god thing did put me off! but i got a sponser and he told me to give time time and things wouldbe reveled and it did the miracle began as soon as i accepted that i was an alcoholic and there was a HP in my life! i used to wonder how my old mum could fall out with me one day and talk to me the next! when i got a resentment i held on to it for quite awhile and it fueled my anger! to-day i have a program in my life and god and life is good just for the day , regards L-ray
Member: Bruce N
Location: Houston
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 12:58:21 PM
Hi...Bruce an alcoholic...Just thought it was interesting that the word "Higher Power" is only mentioned once in the Big Book and the word God is used 132 times. I wonder what that's all about?
Member: Kellie R.
Location: alt. spr. Florida
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 1:11:34 PM
hi, i,m kellie and i am an alcoholic. i've only been sober 7 months yesterday. i'm going thru abit of the same thing greg. except i came into the program with my partner of 17 years.we drank together all that time, so even the relationship is new in sobriety. i'm having a real hard time with this and i try not to get resentful but its a chore. we have seperate programs. i'm trying to work the steps with a sponcer and he's just working. he's become a workaholic. he opened a travel company and i rarley see him. it's hard trying to live life sober with so many relationship issues that i think should be adressed. my sponser tells me on a regular basis that what he does is none of my buisness, and i'm trying that but, i feel so alone with him. i feel like i'm not a part of his life. with all these issues and more how do i avoid feeling resentful? like i said i'm new to sobriety, but i have to and want to stay sober. i have a deasesed pancrease from drinking so alcohol can no longer be aa part of my life. thank you for all of you, i just found this site yesterday and i'm grateful for it.
Member: Moman
Location: Wis
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 1:34:53 PM
I came to A.A. to save my ass not my soul, who do think helped me do both. Sorry i got off the topic, this is all i have time for.
Member: Erma G.
Location:
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 2:08:02 PM
I don't care for the God talk either but I like the way Johnnie Harris put it..."if God runs you out of AA,whiskey'll run your rusty ass back in here"
Member: Chris H.
Location: Kansas
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 3:07:22 PM
Hello...Chris H., alcoholic. God or the talk of God doesn't offend me though I can imagine it does to many others. What I've learned through this program is that the concept of a Higher Power can be anything...even if it's your group. I would hate to think that someone would chose to stay out there drinking rather than be able to admit that there is something out there more powerful than themselves. That's all it takes! My concept of God and Higher Power have changed dramatically and I include many more concepts of a Higher Power in my life today thanks to this program and our diversity. Don't let that word "God" keep you from gaining sobriety. Keep coming back and it will begin to make sense.
Member: george davis
Location: tampa fl
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 4:28:12 PM
Member: marti h
Location: portland, or
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 6:14:33 PM
Marti, alcholic/addict. When I came into the program in my home group what I heard often was if you have problem with the concept of God, another way of looking at it is saying Good Orderly Directions from a Group of Drunks. It worked for me until I figured what my God was to me (3rd step). I am really grateful for this program. This month, one day at a time and with the grace of my God, on the 19th I will be picking up a 15 year coin. Thanks!!!!!!!
Member: Dave j
Location: ns
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 6:45:49 PM
Hi Friends,Dave the alcoholic here.The topic of "GOD' comes up at meetings every once in a while.the god of my understanding is in the eyes of my wife and children when I return home without a Buzz on.wishing everyone a sober 24
Member: John K (johnkpresence@yahoo.com
Location: Philadelphia
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 7:12:38 PM
Hi all, John, typical alcoholic - which means I have always been totally opposed to the idea of losing my so-called freedom of choice to any outer idea or concept of a Higher Power. This is the biggest, most important topic in AA, because it goes directly to the core of what AA is all about. Either God is everything, or He is nothing. Choose your own conception, etc. There are no musts... I was raised in a cult which had, as one of it's main principles, the idea that God (allegedly a loving, perfect/harsh, punishing God who ironically had created me perfectly in the first place) was judging me every second of every day. Talk about contradiction and conflicting ideas! By the time I got to AA, I physically could not get down on my knees to pray--my very first Sponsor told me to do it but I could not. I didn't simply resent God--I hated God! All of my resentments against my parents and other people came from this. It took four years of suffering sober--and a mercifully quick relapse--for me to open my mind. All it took for me initially was to admit that there *could* be a Higher Power. (Now, I have a beautiful relationship with my God, who, to me, is simply protection and care. In other words, my God is love. And as I understand it, all other spiritual principles come from this idea, like honesty, patience, service, and humility.) But as time went on, it took much more--the effectiveness of the whole Program rests on how effectively and sincerely I do the Third Step, after all. (at least, according to the 12x12.) I firmly believe that we should continue talking about God, as the Big Book says, with tact and common sense. Most of us are average people, after all, and will never be spiritual giants or see once-in-a-lifetime burning bushes. I have had dozens of small burning bushes, but last time I checked I still wasn't perfect, and never will be in this lifetime. I have over 9 years sober now, and I have seen a burgeoning resistance in AA to any talk of God or spirituality. There is actual hatred expressed in the meetings by certain people. ("We can laugh at those who think spirituality the way of weakness; we have found it the way of strength.") I've seen it literally all over the world and all over the U.S. I'm not sure if it's always been this way, or if, since so few people are staying sober nowadays, we have been flooded with people who are pure alcoholic ego, without enough knowing, experienced old-timers to straigten them out. Then again, in my experience, even the old-timers who know the truth about the Program aren't saying much. I prefer to talk about it straight out, because at least that way there's no doubt about what's being said. Every person has a choice--a simple one. Try the Program and see what happens, or not. But first you need to have an idea of what the Program actually is, so you can make an informed choice. When it came to my bottom, I simply told God: "God, I don't care if you're the biggest prick in the universe--show me the truth before I die!" It was a moment of sheer desperation. The next day I met the man who is still my Sponsor 7 years later. My life is fixed as long as I do what is suggested; the only times I get in trouble are when I, for some strange reason, listen to myself think. Thanks.
Member: Pat G
Location: New Jersey
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 9:05:45 PM
It clearly states in the the Big Book that we suffer from a malady that only a spiritual experience will conquer. God is mentioned 83 times in the first 84 pages and is clearly stated as a part of the solution. Step 2 and 3 could be no clearer than they are. For those who do not get that part of the program it has been my experience a tough road. Without going to the spiritual side of the program there is no real explanation of what will prevent you from acting on the insanity preceding the first drink. It is my belief that if you come to terms with the idea of a conscious contact and daily experience of God you never feel alone, you feel free of the obsession and should temptation come you will recoil from it like a hot flame. But because one early member had a problem with the notion of God in a traditional sense at first, the words as you understand him, were added. This pretty much makes it easy. If you choose to call the group, nature, etc. God so be it. Thus the spiritual awakening needed will come. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Besides even if someone becomes sober and doesn't necessarily at first credit it to God there are usually enough of us who do and that pray for that person that over time that concept changes for the individual. Not always but I found that until I went to the spiritual side I could not find the peace, happiness, gratitude and serenity we are promised on page 54 I believe of the Big Book. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Deb. T
Location: Virginia
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 9:26:33 PM
It wasn't until I spent 3 months in rehab that I truly discovered who "God" was. The God of my parent's understanding was a conditional God - you earned His love through good works and good behavior and when you were "bad" you lost His love and had to confess your evil to earn back His love. I always felt humble and never worthy. As I got older I learned of God's grace and mercy. But I grew up feeling so worthless that I just wasn't sure of myself...and at times, wasn't sure of "God". After completing a course in ACOA and Alanon - I pathetically graduating to AA and became the drunk my father had been. And I just wasn't sure that life was worth being sober for. I landed in rehab addicted to diet pills, on toxic doses of antidepressants, and drunk. I'd lost my husband of 14 years and my career was on it's way out. I hated who I was, I was angry at the world, and I definitly wasn't sure if there was a God. I used religion and stayed active in my church for years - it was a great way to hide the pain of addiction. What a phoney I'd become. One night, after 6 weeks of detox, I was ready to give up - if this was all there was to life, I didn't want to live it. This emotional pain...without drugs and alcohol, was not worth feeling. And God was no where to be found. I did not want to wake up, I didn't want to be sober. But I gave it one last shot - just in case God was listening. I got down on my knees - and did the most honest 3rd step I could do. I lifted my open arms and hands to the ceiling and I looked up to the corner of the room and said; "God, take it all. I have nothing left to live for. I have nothing left that I want to hang on to." And through the tears I cried over and over - "take everything Lord - I surrender everything I have to you. Let your Will be done in my life...and if I don't wake up tomorrow...I am so sorry for everying wrong I have ever done". And I went to sleep. I woke up the next morning and I felt so different. The first think I did was apoligize to God for wanting to die. I got down on my knees and thanked Him for letting me live...and from that day forward, my life changed. I became peaceful. My spirit changed. I started to laugh that day - I couldn't remeber that last time I laughed out loud. The staff and friends at rehab began to remark about how different I was - and they were right. I began to feel happy. From that day forward I found myself - the real me. That was a miracle...and I knew there was a God. I have only been sober 78 days - but I now have hope and I want to live. I am still scared. I was just discharged 2 days ago and I am very scared. My soon to be ex-spouse is already pressuring me. We have only been apart 6 month and he has a girlfriend - I need to learn to be alone and focus only on my recovery. I just found Deb - and I need to stay focused. The fellowship of AA is now my family - and I feel honored to have found this website. Here I know I will find love and support. Sorry for the long email. It has been a challenging day and I am tearful. Thanks for letting me share. Deb
Member: marty g.
Location: manitowoc, wisconsin
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 10:09:26 PM
god, good orderly direction. its only another name for your higher power, or you could call your higher power whatever you want, it doesnt have to be god, as long as you understand what higher power means.
Member: Matty W.
Location: MA.
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:22:47 PM
Well, I hung around until the 'miracle happened' and the miracle was this: I came to believe a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. I came to believe that, and now have no need or craving to drink. It's okay to not drink. Actually, it's worlds and universes better than drinking, thanks to the remaining steps, which serve as a spiritual guide for me. Call "it" whatever you choose, it appears that there is indeed a "God" - and it's not me!
Member: Robert T
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:24:43 PM
Hi everybody! I adopted everybody elses God in the beginning until I could figure out what One could be in my life. My sponsor always says that God will take care of me as long as I deep on plugging away at life sober. I believe him and know that God is the Universal Boss. It seems that He is the Dynamic Being and in charge of everything. I know God is working wonderful things in the lives of all of us, sober or not.
Member: Teresa B.
Location: Elkhart IN USA
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:37:38 PM
Greg and All, Teresa B., grateful alcoholic. Whew!!! Amazing how quickly this went to gratitude to who likes or dislikes the word "God." But I suppose that's part of the nature of alcoholics is to have coniptions over things. :-) I too have been in AA a few 24s and lately I've felt like deja newcomer all over again. Been having problems with not getting the answers to questions/ problems I think I should be getting the answers/ solutions to. First thing I had to realize was that I *was* honked off at God because I wasn't getting the answers. Second thing to realize was that there are lots-n-LOTS of things I'll never have a clue what's about what's going on. One of those "There's a God in Heaven and He ain't me" re-revelations. Then, it's Ok to feel frustrated et al about not having an answer, so long as I face the feeling(s) and talk about them at meetings, make phone calls, and to my sponsor; rather then isolate and wallow in them. I also ask God to handle the situation as He sees fit to handle it. Finally, your comment on gratitude is the capper. I can choose to thank the Higher Power I choose to call God for the situation, that I can acknowledge the feelings (rather than stuff them,) and be grateful He has things in control and is working it out according to His will. Has it been easy to do this lately? Hardly not, but it's progress I'm going for, not the false and cruel god of perfection. Thanks for being here and helping me stay sober another 24. t.
Member: Erin L
Location:
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:41:30 PM
I need your help i cannot stay sober i am scared and i have nobody to talk to. I have been in AA before but never stuck with it, now I am drunk everyday do you have any adive
Member: Erin L
Location:
Date: 5/4/2003
Time: 11:43:13 PM
drive
Member: John L
Location: St Louis MO.
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 1:02:29 AM
Hi,Erin. This is John L, and i am a alcoholic.I remember when i was exactly in the same spot. The important thing here, is that you recognise that you have a problem.It took me three full years, and probably 20 or so relapses and continuious treatment centers, and trying on my own before i finally had a clue what it took to maintain sobriety. What happened was that i finally followed ALL the sugestions that were given to me. I first off, got a sponser. Second, i listened, and did everything that he suggested. I did not want to do most of the things that he suggested, but i did.This was things like, changing my job [for much less mony],changing my friends, not talking to my son for 6 months,[he lives in Wis], and going to meetings. I did all this because i did not want to drink. And i new that if it worked for him, then it could work for me. Whenever i tried to stay sobber in the past ,i would only do part of the program,and would always relapse.The last relapse that i had [it's been 2 years and 9 monthes now] i was not thinking about drinking 5 minutes before. the problem was that i wasn't thinking about NOT drinking. The more time you spend talking to yourself the more your going to talk yourself into drinking. It really is a very simple program, if you give it a shot. Surround yourself with people in the program, get a sponser, let him know you , and listen, really listen, to his suggestions. It's all about change, willingness, acceptance, and honesty. These are things that do not come easy to us , but given time they become quite natural. Let me know how your doin at jodly38@yahoo.com. Thanks for being here for me.
Member: Nadine C,
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:06:30 AM
Hello,fellow alcoholics.I cannot afford resentments today and stay sober.I have to pray for forgiveness for those that I get a resentment and then the resentment leaves me.I may not forget,but I forgive.Its true you can't have resentments and gratitude at the same time.Each night I pray to God with gratitude for my soberiety,a place to live,food,all the conviences of life,my friends,family,and for his love.Erin go to meetings and you can't get drunk if you don't take that first drink,listen to others experiences,get a sponser,take the steps and you can stay sober.Don't drink one day at a time.Thanks everybody for being here and sharing.
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:17:11 AM
Erin L hope you get to meets and you can e mail me if you want buddy! mclaren.landscapes@ntlworld.com regards L-Ray
Member: T-Bone
Location: S. Fl
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 5:33:57 AM
It doesn't matter what works for me, it matters what works for you. No two people that I know think the same way about God and the program. A higher power which "I happen to choose to call God", works for me. The fact that you believe that something stronger than that "failed will power" of ours will return us to sanity is the important issue. Stick around and you'll come around. God,(or whatever floats your boat)bless you guys today.
Member: AZbill
Location: az-bill@mindspring.com
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 8:28:11 AM
Hi. Bill here. Alcoholic from Arizona. If one would look up the word god in the dictionary they would find out that He is a pretty generic guy. He is not allied with any sect, denomination, organization, or institution. There are Greek Gods, Roman Gods, Norse Gods. In India alone there are over 300,000 Gods. There is Tiki, Buddha, the prophet Mohammed. Father God, Mother Earth. I know atheists who are sober and devil worshippers who are sober. We worship the thing that is most important to us. For me it was whiskey for 33 years. Today it is the God of my understanding. My concept of God. Not yours. Bill Wilson used three references to write the Big Book. James' "Variety of religious experiences"; "The Holy Bible"; and Emmet Fox's "Sermon on the Mount" James is difficult to understand. The language in the Bible in hard. My whole outlook on the religion/spirituality argument changed when I read "Sermon on the Mount" In it I found that God was a spiritual entity not a religious entity. I found out that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi who taught spirituality and metaphysics; and there is no theology whatsoever taught in the Bible. I been listening to this God thing for nearly 22 years now and it simply amazes me that in AA we are allowed to choose our own concepts of higher power but do not honor that privilege to others. Just because a given group of people worship a given entity does not mean that particular entity is religious. It only means that entity is the God of their understanding and perhaps not mine. Thanks, Bill az-bill@mindspring.com
Member: ja
Location: south carolina
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 8:47:03 AM
hi im jessica and im a true Alcoholic . i rememebr coming in to the rooms of aa wirth a closed mind abought god or even a higher power , life for me was never great growing up was as bad as if could have gotten for me and i grew up looking at all t he whys where is god stuff , so when i came in to the rroms you asked i trusted something that to me at the time had always failed me in my life that did nothing to stop the pain and now everyone wanted to take away the one thing that could stop the pain my drinking and useing , god i say well god gave me this life so to speak and now im left to cope the best i can so why not drink ,lol lol lol funny to look back at it now because today i have relized that it was not god who made the choices i did or the choiced my parents made we have that freedom to make and choise the things we do in life and the one one really to blam is me , then came the forgiving my self and taking a look on my side of the street when i started to clean that up i started to see the true meaning of god and what he ment in my life i now have 7 years going on 8 and it is only with his doing did i get to open my eyes and see what i am doing and what me and god can do toghter , thank god for aa thank god for my life and thank god for my sobrity , keep coming back it works....llittlelady31@aol.com
Member: Pat
Location:
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 10:12:23 AM
Bruce, God is mentioned 132 times, HP once. Who has time to do these stats? Go to a meeting.
Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 10:27:12 AM
Craig another REAL alcoholic (page 21). I used to be extremely intelligent and sensative. I needed to drink because you all were so intolerably stupid. How dare you exist in my world without my permission. I had to drink because God never gave me the lottery, a perfect lover or the other things I deserved. At the end I had to drink to keep the DTs away. Alcohol reduced me to a ghost. I only knew fear, loneliness and hatred. It was not until I gave up the battle with alcohol, that I began to concede other battles. I was afraid of drinking again, so I grudgingly became willing to open my mind and honestly do the 12 steps. A resentment is a signal that I need to address, my own character defect. Until I awoke into the Light as a result of the steps, I was absolutely insane. Today, I wake up in awe, that a person as far gone as me could feel Joy and Love for others. If you are new stop the debating, get busy in the program of AA. Peace awaits only your willingness.
Member: Mike
Location: SE
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 10:30:04 AM
Mike,alcoholic. Thanks Deb T. from Va. I'll take your 78 days of sobriety over half the posts here. Remember that there will come a day when that only defense we have against King Alcohol comes from a Higher Power. God and religion are two different things although we should make use of what men of religion have to offer. One more thing. I got sober by the grace of God. How about you?
Member: Todd W.
Location: Oh.
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 11:18:34 AM
Erin...thanks for reminding me of why I don't want to pick up the first one! Been where you are so many times...took me 19 yrs to finally realize that I only had to surrender to alcohol and admit that it ALWAYS kicked my ass...as soon as I quit looking at it as some kind of a contest, I got some relief. Folks out here love ya. Don't give up!
Member: Alan
Location: Glasgow,SCOTLAND
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 1:18:48 PM
hi all, just found site. God,what a lot of time wasted on god,if you have come to believe fine, if not fine too.We must stick to the purpose of fellowship{friendship}.Everybody gets there own message if they hang around...The beauty i find is you get more out of this the longer you are about..your best day is yet to come...have faith. 6 YRS NEXT WEEK.
Member: Alan
Location: Glasgow,SCOTLAND
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 1:20:15 PM
hi all, just found site. God,what a lot of time wasted on god,if you have come to believe fine, if not fine too.We must stick to the purpose of fellowship{friendship}.Everybody gets there own message if they hang around...The beauty i find is you get more out of this the longer you are about..your best day is yet to come...have faith. 6 YRS NEXT WEEK.
Member: ED
Location:
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 2:55:15 PM
Hey Alan, Good thought. Gonna hang round "til I learn to un-do what it's taken me years to do
Member: Ron L
Location: Winnipeg. Man. Can.
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:01:06 PM
Ron and Im an alcoholic. On page 26 of the 12 x 12 it says quote "Alcoholics Anonymous does not demand that you believe anything" unquote In how it works it say and is read at every meeting that our step are suggested as a program of recovery. We all know what the word suggested means. If anyone can find an easyer softer way than what we have at hand. Well Im open and would be willing to listen. Who knows we could all get rich on it. The GOD thing worked for me for over 30 years and is still working. It gives me a laugh when some snot nose young punk wants to change the program to his way of thinking...Us old timers call that playing GOD
Member: Will
Location: SC
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:21:00 PM
I'm just curious because I don't understand. How can anyone object to a loving God?
Member: joe s.
Location: Michigan Rezdog
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:26:49 PM
joe s. alcoholic. what's the topic? resentments about God? i think i'll "resign from the debating society" and concentrate on the possibility that there may be a God and i'm not it. this i know to be true ... the concept of God i came into the program with has grown. if i can start looking for the good in my brothers and sisters, perhaps, over time, i can see the "God" in them. miigwetch!
Member: Norm F.
Location: SC
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 4:45:46 PM
Tell it like it is Ron L. Reliance not defiance. For some not all of the promises will come true because they refuse to believe in God. As for me, I want every promise to be fulfilled in my life. I don't want to settle for less anymore. I know that a self-reliant life can be only so-so at best but for those who like the desert, it's their right to wander. But for the grace of God, there go I.
Member: bikerbabe
Location: hellishelping
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 7:16:05 PM
look man,, they sell more than just cookies at the corner store.. does that mean i can't go there to get my chocolatey chips? For those who are looking for a reason not to go to aa and get sober... why don't you go to an alcohol and drug councillor then, its doubtful they'll talk a whole lot about god, and you can concentrate on your problem there. Incidentally i could find a lot more reasons not to go to aa than the talk of god...(like one of my sponsors always said.... got 2 lots of news for ya; good and bad... the bad news is i don't have all the answers for ya, and the good news is; is its none of my bizness what you decide to do with your problems.
Member: Matt W.
Location: Dry Shities WA.
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 7:21:16 PM
hi Im An AlKoHoLiC Hi ShAwNa
Member: Rarely
Location:
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 9:43:58 PM
Funny those who don't like the GOD talk that goes on at A.A. meetings would have no problem playing GOD if given the chance. Good post Ron L
Member: Cynthia H.
Location: Stratford, Tx.
Date: 5/5/2003
Time: 10:21:29 PM
hi,cynthia-alcoholic how it works says we clam spiritual progress not perfection. if i believed in God when i got here then i doubt i would have stayed. they told me to just come all the way in and sit all the way down and there is a miracal here for anyone who wants it.that has happened to me over and over since august of 1989.today what i call him her HP God doesnt really matter, only that i took the chance to try something other than my own ideals. just found this meeting and am new to the computer world. hope anyone out there hurting will keep it simple go to a meeting dont drink talk to someone read something out of the big book one day at a time. God will soften us all if we hang on long enough. or Higher Power if you prefer. thanks for helping me to stay sober one more day.
Member: damion w.
Location: boston, ma.
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 2:03:13 AM
hey, my name is damion and i am an alcoholic. i just got to a meeting today after a two month slip. i was about a week away from having two years. i made it back by the grace of God. it was such a relief to say out loud that i am an alcoholic. i felt safe in the company of other recovering alcoholics. i think for the first time in my journey through sobriety that i truly felt that i was being honest with myself and that i cannot drink in safety. i got in more trouble in the past two months than i have ever in my life. i just want to be sober and get my life back on track.
Member: smiley
Location: wasdhington state
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 3:57:20 AM
hello anitra here..... i do believe in god and pray on a regular. but dont go to church or anything and also believe in spritual things too but theres something that i dont understand exactly. why is god mentioned so much. what does he have to do with staying sober. i know you have to love your god in order to love yourself. curious. thanks
Member: Terri L
Location: Florida
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 6:21:59 AM
Hi I am Terri and I am a grateful recovering alcoholic. Talk of God and even the Lord's prayer brought back bad memories for me of a God of my childhood that was mostly my judge. I read quite clearly though the third step which states...God, as we understood him (that last part was underlined). I share in my AA meeting theories from several religions including Buddhism and the Toltec. I have a higher power which is magnificent. I have found that it is not so important to define who this higher power is as it is to know it is there within me everyday. This keeps me from drinking and gives me complete serenity and peace.
Member: Vee
Location: Midwest
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 7:26:50 AM
"God, as I understand him" well I don't understand "him" but I do know for sure it isn't my job to be or define god for anyone else. I think I heard somewhere that if ya don't believe in god ya got no imagination. I read a lot of Joseph Campbell and learned humans have some excellent, varied and far-out imaginations when it comes to putting a face on god. I lost touch with the god of my youth who was the god of Abraham as taught by the Southern Baptists, and it's just as well. I am now, through the fellowship of AA, getting in touch with my very own personal savior who took the obsession for alcohol out of my life and replaced it with a growing degree of happiness, joy and serenity. Sometimes I pray to the moon, sometimes I howl at it; I see my god in faces I love and smell her presence when I work the compost in my garden. I see the miracle every time I grow sprouts and every morning when I wake up sober and alive. And the sun comes up and makes the sky light so even if I can't see the sun I know it's there. Thanks for these topics. Many f2f meetings have 3-4 topics at a time; we can do two here ok. Thanks for being here when I can't get there.
Member: Robert
Location: Ohio
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 8:50:05 AM
Robert here, alcoholic. Wow!! Lots of good stuff. Wish I had time to read it all but I don't. Seems to be two topics going on though. Resentments and God. As I've had experience with both - including resentments at God himself - I might have some experience to share. Resentments: I had a ton of these until I did my fourth and fifth step. I'm pretty sure my resentment list was over a hundred people. I had no idea I was such an angry person. No wonder I was miserable all the time. What also helps me today is to pray for those people I am resentful at. I don't know why or how it works. All I know is that it does. Which brings about the second topic; God. The way I handle this in meetings is usually to refer to a Higher Power. The word God seems to bring up, in newcomers, a previous perception that might keep them from having an open mind about the subject. However, we also need to remember that what the steps are ultimately about are clearing away all the crap so that we can have a better relationship with that Power greater than ourselves that is keeping us sober today and can help us get through this life we, as alcoholics, can not manage on our own. Call that Power whatever you like or use the A.A. group itself but get a Power greater than yourself because you ARE powerless. Love, Robert
Member: Tina N.
Location: Bellingham, Wa.
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 1:55:49 PM
hi every one, my name is Tina, I'm a drunk. this is my first time on this sight. today i have two years sober, the hardest struggle of my life. alot of thanks to the a.a program and my sponcer, my higher power which i choose to call god
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 6:09:39 PM
Tina well done and welcome regardsL-RAY
Member: BradV
Location:
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 9:56:25 PM
I had many problems in my life that have stemmed for drinking. Although, I am well educated, work very hard have acheived some level of success personaly with my family and financially, I still must answer yes to these six questions and admit that I have little or no control over alcohol. Do you lose time from work due to drinking? Is drinking making your home life unhappy? Is drinking affecting your reputation? Have you ever felt remorse after drinking? Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking? Is drinking jeopardizing your job or your business? I have always tried to justify that I am only a binge drinker. I do not hid drinks at home or crave drinking. But I have deeply hurt my family and my reputation with my drinking and I must confess that many times I have little power over how much alcohol I consume and my poor behavior that engage in afterward.
Member: Joanie W.
Location: San Diego, CA
Date: 5/6/2003
Time: 11:49:47 PM
Hi, my name is Joanie and I am an alcoholic. I watched someone in my workplace destroy their career today because of drinking-and I was so grateful I was sober and that it wasn't me. 19 years ago I lost my job due to drinking, and when I think back to the coworkers who still spoke to me and were kind to me when I left I am grateful. Most of my coworkers shunned me and avoided me. One of the gifts of sobriety is being part of the human race again. The coworker who destroyed her career today has had liver cancer and a history of abnormal behavior in the workplace. I thought I had smelled alcohol on her breath, but I thought it was my own alcoholism talking, and didn't say anthing to anybody. The same supervisor who had warned me of alcohol on my breath several years ago was the one who led this woman to human resources to fill out the disciplinary paperwork. As I left work today I ran into the head of human resources with the signed paperwork about the alcohol abuse in the workplace in her hand! God was really giving me some messages today. I said a prayer and was grateful for the recovering alcoholic who led me to AA for the first time in 1974. That was my father and he died with 27 years of sobriety 5 years ago. All the good sober years of my life are due to my father leading me to the program and principles of AA. I'll say a prayer for that poor suffering alcoholic in my workplace, but I'm grateful it wasn't me. This economy isn't half as scary as it might be if I was drinking.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 12:17:23 AM
Hi I'm Kelly an alcoholic, The God topic is a good one and scarey for many. I have never had a problem with God but my religion never sobered me up either. AA did. The thing about surrendering to a power greater than myself is the difference I think. As humans from the beginning of time we have tried to answer a few questions like, What is my place in this world?, How did I get here? What is my purpose and ultimate destiny? Just maybe we need to know that a power greater than us created all this and IT WASN'T ME!. St. Thomas Aquinas studied the science of theology for over 200 hundred years and one day slammed the books shut never to reopen them and said something to the effect of we are all just pieces of straw. A pretty humbling statement from such a wise scholar. Maybe all we really need to know is that we are merely dust in the wind. We are not the masters of the universe and to think that way is harmful to our souls. As alcoholics we suffer from a perverse soul sickness. In my end stage drinking my whole world revolved around alcohol. As ((AzBill)) said alcohol became our God. Right down to our core being we have a need to stay right sized and remember with humility just how minute we are. We need AA and our higher power to remind us of that. Turning my will and life over to the power of God on a daily basis has brought so much peace and grace to my life that booze never did. I hope that as I continue in the program of AA more and more will be revealed to me. Kelly
Member: is any one listening
Location: out there
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 1:14:23 AM
I think the topic was about RESENTMENTS yet only three people talked about it, now i have one.
Member: carlc
Location: texas
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 4:46:40 AM
people have been arguing about this higher power forever and everyone thinks they are right i am not an attorney for the Most High and i dont argue religion because religion is man made and spirituality is a gift if more people would take the steps in aa and quit running around kissing each others ass with this sponsorship nonsense they would not have to spend hours and hour arguing and trying to be right with these religous matters the book says that its object is to enable us to find a power greater than ourselves whic will solve our problem my problem was not booze or drugs or anything else my problem was me this spirtual malady that centers in my mind and all these gods in aa that call themselves sponsor and the people that idolize them cannot relieve this insanity that we suffer from 90 and 90 fake it till you make it let us love you until you can learn to love yourself and wait for the miracle and on and on and on with this bullshit we tell people and they go out and die because they are being lied to i havent had a drink for 15 years but did not become sober until i took the steps and established a relationship with my creator there are a lot of people in aa that need to go out and drink and get as willing as the dying can be so they can quit lying to the alcoholic who still suffers
Member: T-Bone
Location: S.Fl
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 5:46:01 AM
God bless the people I resent. There ya go covered both topics.
Member: Donna K
Location:
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 6:41:32 AM
My names Donna and Im an alcoholic So carlc if you know all these people in A.A. who need to go out and have another drink why don't you comprize a list of them and post it? Where were you when Bill our co-founder called Ebby his sponcer? And if you never had a problem with booze how did you find your way into A.A. Sober 15 years???? thats one half of our purpose, how are you doing in carrying the message???? To bad you dident have a sponcer who would have showen you love and tolerance of your fellow man. LOT OF PEOPLE IN A.A. NEED TO GO OUT AND DRINK..... why dont you just try to carry the message to them? Instead of standing in judgment of them?
Member: Jan BB
Location: Paris, France
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 7:34:58 AM
((Greg A.)) Thank you for the topic and good lead. I agree with you on acceptance and gratitude improving any part of my life. I seem to have acceptance down first, and gratitude following shortly there after; still makeing progress. ((Melissa B.)) Thank you for an excellent post. I have read it to two new women I sponosr, and your words have helped them greatly. I too was taught in AA to have an open mind, have willingness, tolerance, honesty and courage. I am not in AA to preach, try to convet or subvert another's beleif system. I practice my program the the best of my ability, one sober day next to another sober day, and carry the AA message of hope to another still suffering alcoholic. I have found service to be my strongest suit in AA, as I enjoy the "we" of working together and find that if I can practice these principals in AA I can go forth and practice them in all my affairs. I have been taught in AA to quietly allow my actions speak louder than my words. Progress not perfection, one sober day next to another sober day. HOPE for ((Everyone)) janbbparis@yahoo.com
Member: Babette R
Location: Israel
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 8:11:48 AM
Thanks ((Greg A) for starting us off. Like ((Joe S)) and ((Kelly)) what I know is that my HP is not me. I even have a sign posted on my fridge that says "Not you" to remind me I am not in control of things.. My first sponsor asked me about my father. Did I doubt his love even when he was punishing me? (no) so she said God was like that, unconditional love. It gave me a way to begin to have faith in a Higher Power. My feelings about Him have changed over the years (I wasn't always sober I was out relapsing ) but I never doubted His love. I also knew that I made alcohol my HP, so what was the big deal of believing in a God that was more powerful than me. Often I slip back and try to control events and people, but always catch myself eventually and return to Him. As far as resentment goes. I have trouble with my ex all the time. Just as I get over one resentment, he does something that gives me another. I have done a fourth step on him (and need to do a fifth) and it definetly helped, but his constant bullying behavoir still causes more resentment. I pray for him as it says in the BB and that sometimes helps. I just try to remember that the resentment hurts ME not him. ((Tina)) Congratulations on two years! Thanks for being here and letting me share.
Member: Babette R
Location: Israel
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 8:13:45 AM
Thanks ((Greg A) for starting us off. Like ((Joe S)) and ((Kelly)) what I know is that my HP is not me. I even have a sign posted on my fridge that says "Not you" to remind me I am not in control of things.. My first sponsor asked me about my father. Did I doubt his love even when he was punishing me? (no) so she said God was like that, unconditional love. It gave me a way to begin to have faith in a Higher Power. My feelings about Him have changed over the years (I wasn't always sober I was out relapsing ) but I never doubted His love. I also knew that I made alcohol my HP, so what was the big deal of believing in a God that was more powerful than me. Often I slip back and try to control events and people, but always catch myself eventually and return to Him. As far as resentment goes. I have trouble with my ex all the time. Just as I get over one resentment, he does something that gives me another. I have done a fourth step on him (and need to do a fifth) and it definetly helped, but his constant bullying behavoir still causes more resentment. I pray for him as it says in the BB and that sometimes helps. I just try to remember that the resentment hurts ME not him. ((Tina)) Congratulations on two years! Thanks for being here and letting me share.
Member: Babette R
Location: Israel
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 8:15:29 AM
Thanks ((Greg A) for starting us off. Like ((Joe S)) and ((Kelly)) what I know is that my HP is not me. I even have a sign posted on my fridge that says "Not you" to remind me I am not in control of things.. My first sponsor asked me about my father. Did I doubt his love even when he was punishing me? (no) so she said God was like that, unconditional love. It gave me a way to begin to have faith in a Higher Power. My feelings about Him have changed over the years (I wasn't always sober I was out relapsing ) but I never doubted His love. I also knew that I made alcohol my HP, so what was the big deal of believing in a God that was more powerful than me. Often I slip back and try to control events and people, but always catch myself eventually and return to Him. As far as resentment goes. I have trouble with my ex all the time. Just as I get over one resentment, he does something that gives me another. I have done a fourth step on him (and need to do a fifth) and it definetly helped, but his constant bullying behavoir still causes more resentment. I pray for him as it says in the BB and that sometimes helps. I just try to remember that the resentment hurts ME not him. ((Tina)) Congratulations on two years! Thanks for being here and letting me share.
Member: Melanie
Location: Akron,OH, USA
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 10:37:29 AM
Hi, I'm Melanie, an alcoholic. When I was drinking, I was full of resentment at the way the world had wronged me. I took no responsibility for my own problems or behavior. AA taught me to take responsibility for myself. When I try to do God's will in my life, I have fewer problems and resentments. Funny how when (I) try to do the right thing, I have fewer problems with others. And all along, I thought (THEY) were my problem! The same is true of my husband. When I began get well, (HE) became less difficult to live with. HHmmmm...Strange coincidence, wouldn't you say???!! If people in the program had censored their talk of God, I probably wouldn't have found Him. Sure, that "God stuff" made me uncomfortable at first. But I was beaten into open-mindedness and willingness to try anything, no matter how uncomfortable. Thanks AA. Life is good. Love and blessings to (YOU)!
Member: IreneG
Location:
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 11:46:07 AM
I have been away from my home group for a few weeks and boy do I notice a change in my behavior. The resentments are balooning. There is a person at work I'v been having difficulty with and I sure need this reminder. Humility and acceptance are not natural states to the alchoholic personality. I think a lot of peple have difficulty with an earlier experience of religion, that they mix up with the concept of God. I went to church all the time but I was hiding my addiction and my separation from God. The talk of God in the meetings may turn people off at first, but is is the reason AA succeeds where other "treatment programs" fail. It has something to offer that alchoholics depaerately need. Someone to take charge of our egos and chaotic spirtis, which are really fronts for self loathing. I did not think I was worthy of God's love. Once I was able to turn to him truthfully, I was on the road to sobriety. I'm coming up on 11 years. Sometimes at first I was hanging on by my fingernails, but remember you are not alone. God and your fellow AAs are with you.
Member: Margaret M
Location: New York
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 1:05:03 PM
Hi, My name is Margaret and I'm an alcoholic. I see the topic is resentments, and I guess right now, I've got a resentment against myself - I've been throwing a pity party for myself for over a month now, since the break up of a long distance relationship I was in. All I know is that I'm in pain and it won't go away and that I don't want to drink over it. I guess I'm resenting the fact that I can't get myself out of it. All attempts are only temporary, and I know I can start my 24 hours over any time I want to, which I've been doing real often. I know also, "this too shall pass" and "give time time", but I feel as if there is a huge empty hole where my heart used to be and it will never be filled again - not even by my HP. I will have 7 years sober on 6/25, God willing, and feel like everything I've learned is not enough. I guess I just needed to share. Thank you.
Member: barb s
Location: canada
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 1:49:12 PM
Hi everyone! My name is Barb and I'm an alcoholic. I've been sober for a year and have just found this web site.With the help of my higher power, which just happens to be God,I' ve learned to accept the fact that I have no power over others which has really helped me deal with the many resentments that fueled my drinking problem. Staying in my shoes is really important to me and accepting things as they are, not as I would like them to be has made all the difference.Thanks for the fellowship.
Member: Norm F.
Location: SC
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 2:33:56 PM
Margaret M. in New York, What you need is some gratitude. If you've got the guts, go volunteer at a childrens hospital or attend a few meetings at a detox or better yet, do some work at a burn center.
Member: Margaret
Location: NY
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 3:17:45 PM
Thank you Norm. I needed to hear that and you are right - I am going to take your "suggestion". Thanks for listening and taking the time to respond. Gratefully yours, M
Member: Jane F
Location: Iowa
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 3:24:30 PM
I am confused. I am not sure where in the big book it uses the word sponsor. Friends, spiritual advisers, fellow alcoholics, but I seem to miss the word sponsor. I'll read the book again, but I know my alcholic mind, I might just skip over it. Would appreciate any help. Jane
Member: Crystal G.
Location: Ca.
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 6:00:41 PM
Hi everyone, my name is Crystal. I have been sober for just two weeks tomorrow, but Im pretty proud of that :) Wasnt too bad the first week, I didnt even miss it, but the last couple of days have been not so good. Ive had some cravings, going through the thought process of "I've done it this far, I deserve a drink!" But then I just thnk of all the terrible things that have gone on in my life because of alcohol, and it makes the cravings a whole lot easier. Two weeks ago I went to my husband with an ultimatum. Everything stops (he was doing drugs and alcohol) or Im gone. Well he doesnt think he has an alcohol problem, and he doesnt like I do... he is able to have just one or two drinks and stop, unlike me. But when he sets out to drink, boy let me tell you, HE CAN DRINK! So he says to me "show me and I will follow" Im thinking we have a deal for neither of us to drink, right? Well just 2 days later, he is drinking! I was so hurt, but all he says is that we didtn have a deal, he said he wants me to show him first that Im serious about it. Pppphhhfffttt.. just an excuse for him to keep drinking, if you ask me. Anyway, I've come to the realization that I cant control him, I can only control ME, and thats a good thing to realize, right? Right. Well glad to be here, thanks for reading :) Crystal
Member: siobhan c.
Location: washington
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 7:21:09 PM
siobhan, here. alcoholic. i don't know what the topic really is this week. on the God issue, all i have to say is He is the reason i have a healthy marriage and so-far-successful sobriety. you can call God by any name you want to, just so long as you call Him. on the topic of resentments, well, this is a continuing battle for me. one day, one prayer at a time. keep breathing, keep going to aa mtgs, keep in mind all the gifts i have been given. take care all.
Member: cb
Location: usa
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 7:57:42 PM
DO you gas from thing like old time sound funny like before I got the runs today stay home more but working on me just me
Member: robert j.
Location: angel beach
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 10:42:18 PM
Robert you are right,there are definetly two topics flying around,but in my opinion they are closely related,for me resentments dissapear when I forgive that person I had the resentment towards,this is something I learned after reading Emmet Fox's interpratation of the Lords Prayer,particularly the part that says we are forgiven only by forgiving,if you're interested the book is called Sermon on the Mount.
Member: rHONDA k. .
Location: dERRY, n.h.
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 11:20:11 PM
Hi I'm Rhonda, an alcoholic. Good topics. Something about being at deaths door and ending up in AA sobering up makes me forget any resentments I may have had. Its nice how AA is AA all around the world. All different yet the same. Love and let live.
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 11:38:40 PM
Hi (Jane F.) The word sponsor is never mentioned in the Big Book once. Chapter 7/ pg. 96 is devoted to sponsorship though and is called, Working with others. Sponsorship was called 12th stepping and a sponsee was called a prospect/ newcomer. The newer terms were published in the book, AA Comes Of Age. My sponsor calls me her sponsee and there are some other names I have heard in meetings but can't remember them now. I hope this helped. Kelly
Member: Kelly M
Location: NH
Date: 5/7/2003
Time: 11:46:34 PM
Oops, Just remembered that some sponsors affectionately refer to sponsees as "pigeons".
Member: mr karie b
Location: canada
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 2:45:44 AM
My name is karie I am an alcaholic.I have not been out to many meetings lately.I am finding life to becoming very isolting.I just want to see if this computer thing here works.Hey Its a new day tomorrow.
Member: Liz S.
Location: paris/florida
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 4:10:58 AM
hi, liz, alchoholic. in my early days of sobriety, i had resentments right and left about the god thing in aa (trying to cover both subjects here, ha ha) and as time passed, i came to believe that there are powers greater than Liz, outside and inside my own self. time took care of time and my resentments. as for the practical magic involved in getting rid of them (resentments) i try to practice "turnarounds": walking a mile a minute, in my head, in the other person's shoes. really becoming the other person for a minute, like an actress would. generally that grants me a reprieve from anger and helps me to find compassion. i also can find a Higher Power in many places, in many forms, if i allow myself to be open to that notion. listen, nothing in my life or drinking experience (30 years) prepared me to become a sober person who can accept herself, more or less, treat others with kind and courteous respect even when i don't want to, admit that i'm wrong when i might be, be of service to others, and yet....here i am, six years sober, a life second to none, feeling ok about myself, and hey, i can safely safe today that if "god" is not in the midst of that, than nothing is. something, NOT me, got me sober and keeps me going to aa, doing service in aa, sponsoring in aa, believing in aa, - lastly, some say, that resentment is just an illusion, it's IN OUR HEADS, even when based on truly awful actions by others. i ask my Higher Power within to remove it, please, because i alone cannot. happy 24 to all,
Member: Nadine C.
Location: Cocoa, Florida
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 6:15:23 AM
Hi.Nadine here,an alcoholic. Some real good post here. My Sponser told me when I first came to AA,to not analazie the progrm,but utilize it, and this helped me to find a God of my Understanding. I too, went to Church on a regular basis and grew up going to Church and I thought God was a punishing God,not one that loves me. Thru AA,I have learned that he is a lovilng God and its unconditional. But for the Grace of God,means but for the gift from God,which is a miracle and I'm a living miracle due to God and AA. I have been sober for 22 years and I tried everything to quit drinking before finding AA. All I know is that it works, and I don't analize how it works or why it works,it just does. I was full of resentments when I first came into the program. Especially against my ex-husband for taking custody of my two children, and the court system and almost everyone around me, blaming them for making me drink. I had to pray about theses and forgive people. Today my ex-husband and I are real good friends and I'm friends with his wife. Hard to believe!!! Huh??? I try to carry the message today and work the program to the best of my ability, after all I'm only striving for progress and not perfection and today I can honestlly say I have made progress and can be happy. I too, take responsibilitly for my actions, which I never did before. To all of you, who are new to soberity, think of God, as good, orderly conduct if you have trouble with the word God. I'm still living one day at a time in soberiety and the days have turned into years so fast. I think God,AA. and my friends for my soberiety.
Member: Norm F.
Location: SC
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 9:03:46 AM
It is by the grace of God, the twelve steps, the fellowship of AA and plenty of meetings that today is 18 years of sobriety. Thank you everyone.
Member: mike r.
Location: mount forest , ont .canada
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 10:51:47 AM
Hi am Mike when I first joined a.a. I was told to get a sponsor which I did now he is more than a sponsor he is more like a brother to me is that normal to feel that way he has been in my life for two years. Can anyone tell is that a good thing to have happen you can email a message to me at Mike284@sympatico.ca
Member: Susan A.
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 2:11:25 PM
HI all, I'm Susan and I'm an Alcoholic. Resentments and 'the God thing' are good topics; it seems like most folks are hit with this as soon as they read step two. I know I was. Too much. I believe this - The reason we need to come to an understanding of a power greater than ourselves, is so we can have a spiritual awakening/spiritual experience/personality change sufficient to bring about recovery. When I was still fighting about the word 'God'/that capital 'P' in 'Power'/anything that I thought you were trying to 'force' me to believe, I was still caught up in that self-will-run-riot. In one breath I'd say "I'm powerless over alcohol, and my life is unmanageable", then with the next breath, I'd be fighting what I was being lead to do. Heck, my life was unmanageable BY ME. My best thinking got me to a place where I couldn't live with alcohol, and I couldn't live without it. I was encouraged to *Please* stop fighting anyone or anything; that I didn't need to believe in anyone else's God, or even my own 12-year-old's version of God. I just needed to be willing to believe - usually, that some new idea you were telling me, or I was reading about, might work better than an old idea that was firmly embedded in my mind. The Big Book encourages us to read Appendix II - Spiritual Experience. Those two pages helped me tremendously. I'm told any alhocolic can recover - that I can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or beligerant denial. There's a quote at the end which talks about a thing that can keep me in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation. Please, keep an open mind and find -your- own way. Try to be patient, tolerant and accepting of yourself and others. Include yourself IN, don't use 'God' or anything else to exclude yourself OUT. Thanks so much for being here. See you next week!
Member: d-flat
Location: ND
Date: 5/8/2003
Time: 11:11:16 PM
margret from NY, Ive been there and it seemed like nothing was changing or getting better, it hurts like hell. just keep doing the footwork, and useing the tools this program offers and God or higher power will show you that hes been there all along. thats the thing that amazies me most in sobriety. or maybe its called spiritual awakeing.
Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 12:38:11 AM
We need to get out of semantics and into recovery. This is a 3-fold program and needs to be worked as written. We work on ourselves through the Steps. But to do that we need to keep the group healthy through the Traditions and we need to keep AA as a whole healthy through the Concepts of Service. Take any leg away from that "3-legged" stool and we will tip over. There are other modalities for recovery so if you are unhappy with AA then choose another highway. One of my daughters got sober in the church. I do not question her choice nor her sobriety. She has never been to an AA meeting. thank you for being here, Bill az-bill@mindspring.com
Member: carlc
Location: Texas
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 12:50:09 AM
sponsorship the way it is practiced in AA today is pomp and worship and at best it is idolatry the book says God could and would if he were sought it also says we suffer from and illness only A spirtual experience can conquer it also says God if either everything or else he is nothing and at the end of page 164 it says Trust God clean house and give freely I dont understand all this hiring and firing and what happens when these sponsors go out and get drunk or hit on your wife or just plain lie to you the book says when a person is ready to take the steps having had the espierence yourself you can give you can give valuable advice but dont be mad if he wants to consult someone else there are too may people running around aa sponsoring people and they have never take a step in their whole life there are also people in aa sponsoring people and they are not even alcoholics people are dying everyday in the rooms of aa because people are being decieved and lied to by these pompous arrogant people who call themselves sponsors the book says strenuous work one alcoholic with another was vital to permanent sobriety I have not seen the word sponsor in the first 164 pages of the book where the solution lies it is in the 12 and 12 which was written to make money the correct way to sponsor a person if you want that title is to take them through the book dont drink go to meetings and call your sponsor will get you 2 things drunk or dead
Member: Brett
Location: Indiana
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 1:10:48 AM
Joining AA, and staying sober a day at a time made clear three pertinent ideas to me: a) I was an alcoholic who could not manage my own life in any way shape or form. b) No human power that I tried ( and I tried many ) relieved my alcoholism. c) God can and did.
Member: elder s 2
Location: not near trees
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 1:12:22 AM
Sermon on the mount, by Emmet Fox was DR. BOBs favorite book. They're called pigoens because, they shit on you.
Member: Chaz
Location: Ohio
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 1:16:16 AM
Thanks Greg. I needed the reminder. I've been fighting with my wife all night. My fault. Now it's almost 2 am and I can't sleep and drinking crossed my mind. I read the grapevine and got some peace. Your e-mail brought the peace I needed to try to get back to sleep. Thanks! Peace & sobriety to you all. Chaz
Member: Maria G
Location: Houston
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 1:30:44 AM
Kellie R... I am also new to this site and grateful to hear from someone else seeking new viewpoints prior to passing judgement, that is an asset on your part. My own man is not a workaholic, he is an AA-aholic. I am an alcoholic, so I try to not pass judgement, but it just seems to me that he'd rather be at AA than at home. I go to a meeting a day, he spends an average of 4-5 hours per weekday night after work and 8-10 hours with short breaks home to shower or sleep all day & all night on the weekends He is two years sober, I am eight months. There are only two conclusions I can reach...........1) that he needs to spend his every free moment at AA for the sake of his own sobriety OR 2) He has become bored with being at home and is looking for something else to occupy his time. I don't yet know which is the case, all I can say is "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference" and hope with all my heart that "this too shall pass" because I actually do love him very much as I'm sure you do yout own man. Wish best of luck to you and wish I had better advice, but we each have to make our own decisions based on our personal situations. Just keep the communication open...that is what I'm trying to do. Good luck.
Member: nope
Location: Never
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 3:04:45 AM
This is Fun.. I did not trade a bar stool for a seat in AA. I go to a couple of meetings a week sometime three. Been doing it for years. On my 11th at night one of the things I have to consider is what did I contibute to the main stream of life today. I pray sometimes Sometimes I don't. It has been said in here a couple of times. I believe God will do for me what I cannot but I know he will not do for me what I can. Someone else said if my house catches on fire I can call AA and we could stand and hold hands and pray but until somebody put water on that fire It will not go out. Try it for yourself.
Member: Shirley T
Location: New Zealand
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 6:47:17 AM
Hi to you all. Shirley - alcoholic. Haven't visited this meeting for two or three weeks. Good subject Greg even if the topic has got side tracked a bit. Gratitude is a good antidote for a lot of our problems and I have every reason to be grateful for my sobriety and my life. Maybe if all had stayed with the original topic there wouldn't have been such an eruption from some posters - and it's not even full moon! Mention of God seems to have produced so much intolerance. We have a choice whether we believe in a God of our understanding though how one works the steps without I do not know . I came in to this fellowship with no belief (through early teaching of a God who would punish my sins) and slowly came to believe in a loving God. That gave me acceptance of my alcoholism and changed my life.I have found that 90% of what goes on round me has nothing to do with me, I am merely meant to observe and learn. Always enjoy your postings AZbill particularly this week. Thanks to all for being here.
Member: L-RAY
Location: somewere in Spain
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 9:36:27 AM
((((Norm F)))) Well done 18years!# ((((Barb.S)))) 1 year! ((((Irene G)))) 11years. ((((Margaret)))) 7 years, ((((Crystal))))2 weeks, and ((((Alan)))) from bonnie scotland 6 years, and anybody else! regards L-RAY
Member: Rosemary B.
Location: Gainesville
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 11:01:30 AM
Hello everyone. my name is Rosemary and i'm an alcoholic. I would really love to "hear" about dealing with anxierty in recovery. i have had a terrible time with it. i am so squirrly and i don't know how to stop being such. i am 4 years sober and i feel like i should be a lot further along than i am. Thanks for letting me share. i'm grateful to be here todaya nd i'm grateful to be sober
Member: L-RAY
Location: SCOTLAND
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 12:10:51 PM
((((Rosemary)))) i had a acute anxiety problem at one time but when i put this program into practise it removed the fear i had for everything and i tried to relax more and became more confident and gave time -time and it passed and i dont get uptight any more only when the kids get going!lol but fear was a big factor in my anxiety! so i wish you well on your journey and be
Member: chris h.
Location: fla.
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 12:13:22 PM
I'm Chris --I'm an alcoholic/ addict...THe topic of resenment and gratitude is a great one for me..I have really been dealing with resentments lately... I was not having any luck giving them up...umtil I finally was able to look at others a "sick",as we hear in the program. I was able to see that people do things that hurt us or make us so mad, because they were hurt and wounded in the past...Even when they are controlling creeps...that behavior usually come from a deep wound...This realization made it so much easier for me not to resent them....I think finally that I was able to see that they have as much right to be forgiven as I do. I guess I thought I was better than others and couldn't understand " how could they could treat me so poorly. When I realixed that I was just as bad as they were( maybe only in different ways). I realized that I could forgive them,because GOd forgives me.....It says that He will and can restore us to sanity. I am greatful to God that He did for me what I could not do for myself.
Member: Rosemary B.
Location: Gainesville
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 2:16:55 PM
Thank you L-Ray. :)
Member: Lisa S
Location: Germany
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 4:48:01 PM
When I first got into this program I was filled with resentment, especially against an ex-boyfriend. I literally walked around everyday thinking how I would take my revenge on him. I became both physically and mentally sicker. My sponsor suggested that I pray for him. Pray for him, I asked. I pray he dies. I took her suggestion, though. I took the example from page 552 of the Big Book, "Freedom from Bondage." Everyday I did this and I don't know when, but I know one day I woke up and realized I didn't hate him anymore. I really prayed he had all those things I prayed for. I still do some time later. I don't know if he ever received anything, but I know I'm free of bitterness. I know that still works today, when I choose to use it. With some people I need to put enough space between them and me. I know when I'm around them I can feel my own poison. I become someone I don't want to be today. If I need to deal with people on a daily basis, I might need to do alot more praying for them (actually for me). Most of the time when I have a resentment against someone they are not doing or saying what I want. They probably are not allowing me to force my will upon them. One time, I had a major resentment against my husband. The more I focused on his negative traits, the more he had. When I finally changed my focus to his good points, I found he had more of those. Sometimes its all how I choose to look at things. Concerning the God issue. My very first meeting I was glad because I finally had hope that my problem could be resolved, then they said the Lord's Prayer and I thought I was in a cult. I kept coming back, though, because I really had no other alternative. I believe God brought me to this program and in turn this program brought me back to God. Years ago I developed a God of my understanding and it hasn't changed. My sponsor and I have and probably always will have different concepts of a Higher Power of our understandings. That's okay. We agree to disagree and I receive a whole lot more from her. We can respect each others choices. Truthfully, I don't feel comfortable saying, "Higher Power." If you have a problem with my using the word "God" that is your problem. I don't mind anyone else using any form they choose. Congrats to all who had birthdays this week!
Member: Ches C
Location: Montreal Canada
Date: 5/9/2003
Time: 10:03:53 PM
Hi.My name is Ches and I'm an alky. I would like to share only one resentment. I have a problem with AA. I was attending meetings for two years. being a bing drinker , I could not find a sponsor. I was always told that I was not ready. Who are these people to judge when I'm ready or not.So I got so angry at these people that I fought back. If they could not help me, I would do it myself.So I quit meetings and got sober all by myself and my higher power. But you know,I have come back to AA not get even but to try and help others.I still have no sponsor and am sober for 16 months.So maybe some resentments are not so bad. And I guess all that time listening to alchoholics talking rubbed off and somehow I found peace.Thanks for letting me share,love you all.
Member: Joe M
Location: NYS , USA
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 12:45:44 AM
Hi I'm Joe And I'm an Alcoholic, I get a resentment when people come into the program and try to change the way it works. God is In the program. Like the BB and the steps say, God of your understanding. If you have no god Then think of GOD as Good Orderly Direction. The program isn't for everyone. Its for those who will go through any length to stay sober, and recover from the destuction of Alcohol. My sponcer told me that. and if i wanted what he had, i should take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth. Few fail that follow the path. God speaks to me through people, People that are in the rooms and follow the path and take Steps. G-ood O-rderly D-irection keeps me sober, and so do the people of AA. For me Its Recovery in AA and some sanity or Drinking myself to death and maybe take you with me. AA works just fine the way it is. I just let it happen. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Jay T
Location: Midwest
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 9:12:23 AM
Hello again, Jay alcoholic/addict. Resentments and God-talk are the same to me for a couple of reasons. I was one that resented the talk of God at AA first step tables early in my recovery. I chose to believe in the program of AA at first because the proof of it’s success was sitting across the table from me every night. This has slowly evolved into what I find myself believing in today, the higher power of my personal experience. Because of the profound changes in my life since coming here broken and desperate, my faith grows. I was told, by the biggest influence for me in AA, that resentments are things that I just have. If I could do something about them I would, none of us like wasting all of our time thinking unpleasant thoughts about others. So, when I get tired of the negative energy that resentments generate, I ask my higher power for help. I choose to do this in the form of prayer because that works for me. Thank you all for being there.
Member: Les
Location: MN
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 10:12:56 AM
Hi! Les here, alcoholic. RESENTMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE OFFENDER (BB,64). Throughout my 23 years of sobriety, resentments have come and gone. Some I've hung on to for far longer than was good for me, and I've suffered for that (along with my family and those around me). I'VE HAD TO LET THEM GO -- and my HP does that for me. When I am JUDGMENTAL of people -- that's a good indicator that I have a resentment to deal with. To CHES -- I'm glad you came back to AA. It's unfortunate some people told you that you weren't ready. Remember: The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Hang in there, Ches. It works. Happy, Sober Day to everyone!! Les
Member: PappyPaw
Location: Michigan
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 10:49:06 AM
The older the piano..the more apt it is to be out of tune. Resentment is the #1 killer. AA is a "Spiritual" program. I draw my strength from the "Great Spirit" whom I choose to call God. I find him most anywhere I look as I only find him when I look. Todays's Srtaying Cyber is one of the most rewarding postings ever of Staying Cyber. Jay has touched deep on everyones heart.Deb God is with you. Thankyou all for your shared love. PappyPaw
Member: Cindi P.
Location: Wisconsin
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 12:11:06 PM
Hi all, Cindi P., alcoholic. Resentment built up last night toward parents being 1 and a half hours late for dinner and husband's reaction to that. This morning I wanted to tell them all how they screwed up my life. Instead I wished for peace, happiness, and health for them all. I've learned these things through the steps and listening to others share their experience, strength and hope. Thank you all for sharing yours.
Member: Kathy F.
Location: Texas
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 12:31:07 PM
Hi, I’m Kathy and I’m an alcoholic. The AA slogans-on-the-wall were my first introduction to how this program works. When I stumbled into the program and was thirsty, puzzled about a higher power, or had a resentment against one of the few folks left in my life, I was given one of those slogans to mutter to myself for the next 24 hours (until the next meeting). Once I regained consciousness and was able to read, I was told to read one of the first three steps in the Big Book or the 12&12 and “go think about it”. After I did my thinking I’d be quizzed, and 10 times out of 10, told to go read it again and think about it some more. It was also suggested (ha!) to me early on that I read Sermon on the Mount by Emmett Fox because these were the ideas used by early AAs, and the topics of a higher power and resentments were addressed at length (and again, I was quizzed). The result of all this was that I learned to first, follow directions and second, think rather than obsess. These are the things which still help me today when I catch myself in a “thirsty” mood, or trying to define a higher power, or find myself in the early stages of developing a resentment.
Member: Frank
Location: new york
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 7:49:23 PM
Member: Frank
Location: new york
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 7:53:03 PM
Frank, alcholic, been sober since 93, I am an alcoholic and cannot do this alone,A.a. got me sober,god gave me the miracles...To every newcomer i say.. one day at a time, and just try to stay sober for the day, for tommorrow is another day....Thanks... Frank
Member: mikem
Location: butler pa
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 8:27:28 PM
CAME , CAME TO , CAME TO BELIEVE. We will eventually have a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps.
Member: L.W.R
Location: canada
Date: 5/10/2003
Time: 9:20:07 PM
thanx for all the really great shares. hmmm so lets see, i was allergic to alcohol and other forms of drug altering substances.... so much so that i would eventually die, go to jail or the institution. (although i hear its not half bad in some of those establishments; for anyone who don't want sobriety)) my (now twisted) and tiny pee brain, could no longer function well enough to rub together a few brain cells and cut it out.. hmmm and NONE of my family or any other significant person, place or thing, good job, lovely man,, could get me to cut it out... hmmm so what was left? i was in big trouble when i drank, big trouble! No one, nothing, and not myself was gonna cut it anymore. so what was left? how was i gonna stop? was i going to be like one of those insane patients, who would chew off thier own hand if not restrained? basically ya... so who got me sober? how did it happen? ba ba da daaaaa!!! SOMETHING MORE POWERFUL THAN THOSE PEOPLE PLACES AND THINGS EH? I CHOSE TO CALL IT GOD..
Member: faran g.
Location: Show Low, AZ
Date: 5/11/2003
Time: 4:04:45 AM
I am an alcholic, my name is faran;I did not know what a resentment was when I came through the doors of aa. All I knew that I hated every thing person place and most of all myself. I hated God the most of all. But i was beaten. I could no longer live with alcohol or live with out it. and the worst thing was that no matter how I tried I couldn't stop even if I wanted to. Living was hell and no matter how I tryed, I couldn't die. I was instutionalized. I came to aa through treatment. I was frightened. People were laughing when they told their horriable stories and I cried. They were happy, and staying sober one day at a time. I didn't want to be an alcoholic, I just did not want to be anything but gone. I was " shaking and backing" and they told me to come back. I did and don't know why. Just being there and listening helped. you all told me "I can't, He can, I think I'll let Him. 30 days latter A sponser was givin to me by some unseen force. You see for 30 days no one would sponser me. I did ask, and kept asking untill I was about to give up. I had given up when I came there was nothing left. Surrended to win is what I was told. I did. you told me to pray, I did something like this:"who ever, what ever the "f" you are I give. just for now this minute please I need you. and then it happened. I slept. and awoke with out wanting a drink. God, Higher power, or what ever you choose to call it did for me what I could not do for myself. My spirit was changed and I awoke to new ideas and feelings. It is a spiritual awakening, and progress.not over night but it happens. the B.B. tells us that resentment,ie:hate dispise anger not like bothered soforth and so on, is the #1 offender . thank you mikem for came, came to, came to beleive. because that is just what happened. Work the steps as suggested and by step 12 the spiritual awakeing occurs.On his, its, hers, what ever's terms not mine, my own best thinking bought me a chair right in aa right where I belong.going to any lengths it says. today I believe, a God of MY OWN understanding. WE admitted we were....This is a WE deal not "I'll do it by myself deal". I haven't had a drink in 4 years,and I remember what it was lik and what happened and what it is like now. the first 164 pages were inspired and I live my life by them. all the answers are there. Living that Is our problem. drink is but a symptom. I am my own worst enemy. God, higher power, what ever, loves me enough to keep me sober today. do what it says and Live Life. thanks for letting me share.