Member: Karen S
Location: Elgin, IL
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 10:39:20 PM

Comments

My name is Karen and I'm an alcoholic. I just finished reading the site rules and was so surprised to be the first here. I would like to talk about how we handle loss in sobriety.

When I was drinking, loss was a common factor of my life so I didn't really think much about it because I stayed drunk all the time. I know that loss is a part of life, but this is the first time I have had to deal with it and not drink. I hurt so much inside right now and I know that a drink will only make things worse. I have had many people say to me "this too shall pass" or "turn it over to God." While these things sound really nice, I have to admit that is not passing nor am I able to just turn it over to God and it now has been a whole year. I finally met a wonderful woman who was here on business and she was at my meeting the other day. She told me that maybe I wasn't getting over this particular loss because I was not meant to actually be without it or lose it. There are some losses we experience and have no choice but to accept them but this one is one that I chose and I think I made a bad choice. She told me that it was okay to re-choose and try again. I am scared to do it because I may be rejected but I know now that just trying to get past it is not working.

So to make this long story short. I am so happy to have met that woman because now I feel that I don't have to just get over it. I will take her advice and re-choose. I know that I am taking a big risk, but at this point, nothing else has worked. Wish me good luck!

Thank you


Member: Joy P.
Location: I:
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 10:45:41 PM

Comments

Hi... Joy/alcoholic here, I would like to start this meeting and am happy to do so...Thankyou. I would like to hear some good stuff on willingness. For me this has been the key to a whole new life for me .The moment I became willing life[for me ] got easier .It was like a light went on...I understood I could do a lot if I only became willing to let my higher power in. If I opened up my ears and heart and shut down my alcoholic mouth and pride. I didn't get "willingnes" at first but in my 4th step I grew much more aware of it . I now know I can change or learn to handle just about any thing sober if I just let myself become willing...it's half the battle.I am thankful and learning today to live a sober life.Joyfully yours,Joy


Member: David C
Location: MS
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 11:01:06 PM

Comments

David an alky. Thanks Karen for your topic. Nothing is ever just a coincidence for me anymore. I have been struggling with a loss issue for some time now and I think I have just be stuffing it away hoping to God it would just go away. Then today I get home from a great Easter dinner with some friends and I come on this site and guess what the topic is?

Yep, I guess stuffing it isn't going to work anymore and my Higher Power wants to makes sure I know that. Karen, your topic and my being here is certainly not a coincidence.

Hmmm, I can rechoose? I never thought of that and I like knowing that I have that freedom. The part that is hard for me about rechoosing is what you mentioned Karen. I am taking the risk of getting rejected! But you know what? That would be so much better than the limbo I am living in right now. I thank you for being here and I thank my Higher Power for answering my prayer. Good night.


Member: Gisele D
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 11:21:03 PM

Comments

Thanks Karen for a topic seldom talked about. I have just been through a loss...one of the kind that must be accepted. I lost my best friend to cancer. It was the first 'permanent' loss I have experienced since being sober. I didn't know I could hurt so much. At first the pain would just come in waves. It was and still is so overwhelming.

For a long time, everything and anything reminded me of her and the tears would start all over again. She was a wonderful person and sober for 21 years before she passed on. I try to apply the program to this as best I know how.

When I get really depressed, I call my sponsor or go to a meeting. I've volunteered as a 'temporary sponsor'. I think it's something my friend would have liked and it certainly has helped me lots.

I remember when I first sobered up, people would talk about how, after a time, emotions would well up...and they were right. I just never had to deal with grieving before. But you know what? Despite everything I'm grateful to be alive, I'm grateful to be sober, I'm grateful to have known my friend and to have spent some time with her, I'm grateful for the rooms of A.A. And most of all, I'm grateful to my Higher Power for making it all possible.


Member: Brian B.
Location: Moline, IL
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 11:34:51 PM

Comments

Hello everybody, i'm Brian & i'm an alcoholic. Glad to see just a few comments so far, it's easy to get lost on this page after a few days. Thanks for both topics dealing with loss and willingness. They do seem to be connected in some ways in the sense that to deal with many of the challenges that come at you sober, you have to be willing to continue to do the things that are discussed around the meetings. My best example has many times been my sponsor who suffered a great personal loss shortly after I came in to the program and he had been sponsoring me for a few months. The things he continued to do was go to meetings, didn't drink and continued to help me through the steps and the new challenges I was facing at a few months sober. Later he told me how much having a new AA to work with helped. It's like Biil said in his story, "when all else failed, intensive work with another alcoholic...". So I guess my experience was that by keeping doing what the program outlines, one day at a time you can stay sober with the Grace of God, AA and a good sponsor helped me.


Member: Andrew A.
Location: Calgary, Alberta,Canada
Date: 4/23/00
Time: 11:42:51 PM

Comments

Andrew/Alcoholic. Thank you Karen for your topic. I am the eldest of seven children and have lost three brothers as a direct result of their drinking, another brother on skid row, my Mother passed on from cancer in 1995 and my Father in February last. I was drunk at the times of my brothers deaths, but sober for my parents. I do not know how I dealt with the grief over these and other losses, but I do know that all I can do is the best I can with what I have got at the moment. If I am willing to go this way, and sometimes it means doing nothing at all, I do recieve the Guidence and Direction I need in any situation. God Bless and Keep You. Love....Andrew.


Member: Ingo S.
Location: Alta. today B.C. tomorrow
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 12:07:39 AM

Comments

My name is Ingo &I am an alcoholic/addict. Very early in soberity I too experienced the loss of a very dear friend and if it were not for the program and the fellowship who knows what the end result may have been. I always turned to alcohol to releive my greif at loss of friends, but today I have the willingness to accept the things I cannot change. I have learned that "We are not responsible for our disease, but we are responsible for our recovery.That in itself reminds me that I am responsible and I go to any lengths for my recovery. In the last 2.5 yrs I have lost other friends and the loss becomes easier by my beleif in my Higher Power and the strength of the fellowship. Thank you all for my sobriety and I wish everyone another 24 hrs. God Bless


Member: Toddy N.
Location: Ruidoso Downs NM
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 12:52:03 AM

Comments

Hi all, I'm Toddy and I'm and alcoholic. I like this topic, handling loss. When I was drinking I remember very clearly losing a dear pet dog, Cinnamon. I drank tequila ALL DAY trying to stop the pain of losing her, for some reason or another I never did get drunk. I did get very angry and accusing towards someone I love very much, playing the blame game. I sobered up 2 years later. I again lost a beloved pet, Chance. I didn't drink, instead I prayed over his grave and knew that he would be welcomed by God. I'm a veterinary technician/dog groomer so these animals mean a lot to me. I remember going to a meeting the night we lost Chance and talking about loss there, how much more comfort I got from praying and NOT drinking than I got from drinking and forgetting my higher power. With Cinnamon's loss, I got no relief, the grieving took much longer, with Chance, I felt peace almost immediately. I have since lost my grandfather who died knowing I was living a sober life and a sister-in-law who once commented on how since I'd sobered up I had a calmness about me that she'd noticed, something I hadn't had before. Losing those I loved hurt terribly, still does at times, but I truly believe that handling the grief sober works a lot better than trying to drink it away. By drinking we are looking for something to ease the pain but you know what, it lessens a lot faster by using the AA program! One term that comes to mind right now is,"This too shall pass" and it is the truth. Plus, by going through the pain of loss sober we don't add the pain of hangovers, regret, remorse, embarassment, and all the other great things that come with drinking. I remember when my grandmother died in '84, I was a drinker but not too far gone yet. After the funeral and after many drinks, Valium, and who knows what else, my oldest sister literally jumped on my next oldest sister and knocked her to the ground and bit her on the chin (so badly she was terribly bruised for a month) during a drunken brawl over who'd raised the younger kids in my family since my alcoholic mother had left us after 14 years with my alcoholic father. The next day, when I saw these 2 sisters, I'll never forget the shame on the oldest sister's face and the embarassment on the second oldest's face. I guarantee that this fight would never had happened had it not been for the alcohol and drugs taken to "help them through" the loss of our grandmother, who would have been appalled if she'd been there to see what happened! So much for medicating themselves. Enough rambling now, thanks for letting me share. Love to all, Toddy toddyneill@webtv.net


Member: Jen L.
Location: Dallas, TX
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 1:34:00 AM

Comments

Hi everyone, Jennifer, greatfull recovering alcoholic. Thank you for the wonderful topic. This is one I have been struggling with since I got sober, loss and then resetment as a result. My last boyfriend comitted suicide outside my house after I brike up with him, and after seven onths, I am still strugglig with the feelings of loss and resentment. I was drinking when he died, and now that I am sober and working the steps, i find myself unsure how to make ammends to him, and to forgive myself. I keep thinking, "if only he had found the fellowship", but that sort of thinking is futile, because none of us can go back- I don't think I would even want to go back. I am trying now to live for today, and make my ammends to the dead in the way that I treat the living. I am living a little better each day, and hopefully touching a few lives in a positive manner along the way. By the grace of my Higher Power, I am alive today. Thank you all for your support and fellowship- I feel it all the time now. Be well, Jen


Member: bonzo  5/30/80
Location:
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 3:06:33 AM

Comments

Hi extended family, bonzo/alcoholic here (((ROOM-HUG))) first of all, thank you ((techs)) for the great job you do here, you are appreciated by this alky, good to be here with all my brothers and sisters here in fellowship, loss and willingness, good topics, thanks ((karen)) and ((joy))

loss, today the relationship I had for three yrs came to an end. it had been changing for awhile and I've not lied to myself about the changes, nor tried to control the outcome. He is not at fault nor am I. We just changed. In the past I would have tried to manipulate then been devestated but today I'm not really sad or mad or fearful. I don't really feel loss, just change. God has been so good to me so far. I don't think I want to fight Him on this one. He can see the big picture and I have faith that life will be as wonderful with the changes as it was when we were so happy in each others lives as sweethearts. Thats what dating is all about, giving a relationship the time it needs to either grow into a forever thing or see if this is just to be a friend. I used to marry or move in with them then see if we were compatable. Geeeze, 50 and learning how to date.

The day was wonderful up to that point. The relationships with my children that I lost early in sobriety are now all back in my life sharing their most precious gifts, their children. Got to help play Easter bunny to my grandson, (my daughters son) making bunny tracks thru the house with carpet fresh and cutouts, throwing carrots about the house. My youngest son came into town to share this time. Talked with my granddaugher (my oldest sons dau) (heard my other 2 sweet angels in the back ground) and to my oldest and my sweet dau in law. Received a night shirt from my daughter in my basket this morning that reads, my mother, my friend. My heart smiled, ya know, I "LOST" the relationships with my kids only to have God take them, refresh them and give them back in a much better way than I could have ever imagined. He has taken some and they have been gone for good, for my own good in hind site, some have come back in a more wonderful way. When He is in control and I am "willing" that He have them cause I'm out of answers, things work smoothly, without too much pain. It's only when I think I know better that it's painful.

I lost my mom 12 days after I got sober, she had cancer and was in alot of pain. Thank God He took her home. I've lost friends to this disease. lost sponsors, husbands, kids, pets, home overlooking the ocean, good paying career w/travel, cars, toys etc. all my losses have been necessary. All my losses have been merely changes. We all have a choice once we get here, drink or not drink, to work the steps or not work them & stay miserable and annoying to others, chancing our possible last drunk. To become willing to be willing to Let Go and Let God. Today I really do have to say this. Jesus is my HP & Lord and Saviour. Thank you Jesus for my life today.

Life is good today but things, they be a changin. Starting to learn how to enjoy the journey. pretty exciting stuff when you think about it. misery is a choice today not a way of life. Dear God please bless all who venture here. love and hugs, bonzo --- bonzoc@webtv.net


Member: Dennis M.
Location: Seattle area
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 6:59:16 AM

Comments

My name is Dennis, and I am an alcoholic. Thank you Karen for the topic. I chose to not drink on 1-21-93, and have decided the same thing every day since. My first year was consumed with grief over the loss of my precious booze. Then one day I realized with amazement, that I had gone for a few days without thinking of drinking. That realization was a wonderful moment for this alcoholic, and I wondered if I had actually made it to that "Don't give up before the miracle happens" point. As it has turned out, I have not felt the urge to drink since that day. I have considered it, but have always rejected it after playing that tape all the way through. I had lots of things happen in the first year of my sobriety, but none so stunningly important as just not drinking. Since that turning point though, I have dealt with some terribly painful issues. At 2 and a half years I was forced to leave my job of 15 years because of an injury. That injury, was the repeated exposure to fatality accident scenes/crime scene investigation involving homicide, suicide etc. I already had PTSD from Viet Nam but had never sought any help for it, and thought I had dealt with it already. This new accumulation of feelings stuffed, came to a head one day, the nightmares began that night, depression, sleep disorder, suicidal thinking, daytime visual flashbacks, all soon followed and this was at 2 and a half years sober. That was in August of 1995 and the whole thing just came to closure this month with L&I, after nearly 5 years of therapy, my sleep disorder is not fixed, nor am I able to work, so now I will be retired. All I can say is that without AA, I would have committed suicide from the lack of sleep, to say nothing of the acute depression. But today, I have a new way to deal with lifes problems. My sponsor thank God, knows that sometimes we do need that outside help, and he wasn't one of those idiots in the program who would pretend to be a medical expert, and tell you to throw away those meds you have had proscribed. If it had not been for the medication I have been on, I KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that I would have either killed myself, or gone back to the bottle. My wife lost her father last year, and this year I lost my mother. Neither of us found an excuse in this to drink. I have learned that no matter what hideous curve ball life throws me, I just need to stop and ask myself what God would have me do now, and its very rare that I do not find the answer almost right away. And when I am stumped, I can talk to another sober drunk. Or if all else fails, I can work with a new guy which always gets me out of my own misery. Being a sober alcoholic, who spent an entire lifetime stuffing, avoiding, and worst of all, not giving myself the right to feel my feelings, it is the greatest relief in the world to be able to process these feelings with others who actually care. I have had so much help getting through these seemingly hopeless situations from the people in AA and of course HP. I do not fear for things like I used to. I do not live in tommorrow anymore. I was told to live my life "One day at a time" and I try to do that. It makes it so much more simple. I hate this disease that tells us we don't have disease. We will all die as alcoholics, I wan't to be one of the sober ones when I go. I have watched some people die in the program from terminal illnessess without complaining, and staying as active as possible right up to the end. What a wonderful lesson for us all. I heard something once that I really liked, a person in a meeting said to someone who had recently lost a loved one, "Maybe God needed another angel". This was said so tenderly and lovingly to the person that it just seemed to cut through to the exactly correct spot in the heart. It was one of those moments that felt good to everyone who was there. It touched me very deeply then as it does now. Thanks for the opportunity of sharing in this meeting.


Member: Scott W
Location: Hong Kong
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 7:28:50 AM

Comments

This is quite probably off topic...but I have a drinking problem. I am an ex-pat living in Hong Kong. Does anyone know of any help I can receive here?

Thanks very much.

Scott


Member: LeAnn  B.
Location: St. Marys, GA
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 7:51:41 AM

Comments

I'm LeAnn and I'm an alcoholic. My loss issue involves the recent loss of my sobriety after having 5 months in the fellowship. I went back out last week on a two-day spree.....lost it all. Nearly lost my husband and kids this time, lost the respect and trust of many friends {non-AA}, lost my self-respect {AGAIN!}. I'm having to do lots of soul searching and I"m grateful that my Higher Power allowed this blackout drinker the privelege of remembering every detail of this last drunk. I remember each and every irrational thought, each feeling that led to the drink, the fearlessness, and finally the humiliation & guilt. I am so grateful to my brothers and sisters in recovery who open up their loving arms and welcome me back into the fellowship after I screw up. I'm filled with thankfulness that my higher power knows exactly what I need and I only need to turn to him for the direction and answers I need to get me through today. Yesterday, during Easter service at church, a pastor prayed specifically for "a woman with an alcohol problem who thought there was no hope". I know he was praying for me; I felt hopeless after the loss of my sobriety. Alcohol had become my master {again} and I was spinning from the shame and guilt. My higher power showed me through this prayer that mine is not a hopeless situation if I only depend on Him to guide me each day. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: jrr
Location: Harmony on the lake
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:20:51 AM

Comments

good topic! My first meeting was a mess. I didn't want to be there and was a wreck.

Today I am grateful for the program.

One day at a time

This deal works...I promise!


Member: Betty K.
Location: L.A.
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:23:14 AM

Comments

First meetings? mmmmmm...lets see

My first meeting really was a trip!

Ten years later i is still sober.

Thanks for listning.

PEACE.........out.


Member: Sally F.
Location: Boston
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:36:06 AM

Comments

Having just read all the posts I thank all who thoght up the topics.

"My first meeting","Losses" and "Willingness" are great topics!

So far,after reading the posts. I have learned a lot.

Thanks and keep comi'n....thid deal works! .I promise!


Member: elizabeth b
Location: ga
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:40:04 AM

Comments

first scott w. ( hong kong) all i can say is i believe aa is everywhere. just keep looking. I'm glad to be here sober today. willingness and loss are connected. I'm going through a loss but at the same time i believe that when my pain gets to where i think it's unbearable, the miracle happens. I pray alot and ask for acceptance (because my loss is not one to change) and i have faith (that the rooms have given me) that my higher power will take care of me and will bring me new and wonderful gifts that i couldn't even imagine. Pain is hard and loss is hard and yes even willingness is hard to achieve, but together we can do it and feel life and its beauty. When we were drinking (at least me) there was no beauty, faith works, praying works, i don't know why, but it does. I hope you all feel loved today because my higher power loves you, ( worts and all)


Member: Mary K
Location: Boston (Raynham)
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:43:18 AM

Comments

Hi all! Mary, alcoholic.

Thank you techs for the wonderful job you do. It IS appreciated.

Great topics! For me they go hand in hand: First I have to have the willingness to go through the stages in the process of loss and be willing to allow the feelings (both positive and negative) to air themselves out. That can be very scary for this alcy!

For me to deny any and ALL of the feelings associated with loss (and there are many different kinds of losses) is to not be honest with myself. I need to feel my feelings - I drank to run from them and they festered and ate my soul. AFTER I feel them, acknowledge them and if need be really look at them THEN and only THEN can I turn it over to God. For me to turn them over BEFORE I allow them to air I am not dealing with them - I am avoiding and denying their existence and they fester inside.

Feelings are very hard for this alcy. I returned to drink more than once to try to escape them - I would have rather gone through the insanity of another bout with booze - and THAT is insane. One of my favorite sayings is: I would rather take a punch than feel a feeling.

I cannot go around them, over them, under them - I MUST go through them to get to the other side. And that takes willingness, faith and courage.

My love to all - Mary.


Member: Tom M.    
Location: Homosassa, Fl
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 8:55:25 AM

Comments

This a difficult topic to discuss because loss can mean different things to everyone. As in Lee Ann case. 4/24 7:51 am You feel you have lost your program and went back out for more research. At least you have not lost the desire to stop drinking, as proff you are here. God Bless you and keep coming back. It is when you stop trying is when the real loss will happen. Keep coming back. One day you will find a way to loose that desire to take that first drink.


Member: Gus J.
Location: LA
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 9:23:30 AM

Comments

My loss is of a different type. I feel as if I've lost control. I feel as if I've somehow lost my honor and lost an important battle. My drinking ended last night at midnight after an embarassing day to my family. Today I'm taking a vacation day from work to find some help. I am so glad I found this page. I want to stop drinking and turn my perceived loss into a win.


Member: Kim S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 9:51:30 AM

Comments

Hi all! Alcoholic named Kim, here. Wonderful topics this week & thanx to the techs; for without them, we wouldn't have these topics.

I, too, believe that willingness & loss go together. At (nearly) 3 yrs. sober, my mother was so ill, we (her children) discussed "pulling the plug" on the ventilator that was breathing for her. It was the toughest situation thus far in sobriety. I went to a meeting (new one), smelled the coffee, saw the smoke, & knew I was home & free to express the feelings. My HP (God) got me to that meeting, got me thru the experience...sober...AND helped me to tell my mom that if it was her time, she had done her job of raising the four of us, & it was OK for her to go "home". NEVER could I have done that when I was drinking. I would have selfishly held on tight & begged her NOT to go. Thanx AA & HP for giving me the strength to do what I needed to do. I held on to the thought that she got to see me sober. "God needed another Angel" is exactly how I have to look at these kinds of losses....it's how I CAN let go.

A friend was lost to me during my drinking days. How did I handle that? Got drunk & played pool with his brother & didn't feel anything until 3 yrs. later when I sobered up. I had to go thru the grief process for real then. NOT the "easier, softer way", believe me.

God WILL do for us what we CANNOT do for ourselves. Peace & serenity to all who want it today!


Member: Harry K
Location: England
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 9:58:31 AM

Comments

Hi folks, I'm an alcoholic named Harry. All I can say about loss is today I'm sober enough to feel it; and its rarely ever good. The only thing I lost and was ever happy about was weight. I've lost two wives a failed engagement and 28 years of my life to alcohol. I've lost my parent's, sister and countless friends to death, jobs and lifes changes moving people about. It was acceptable to me.. shit happens. But today, I can walk into a meeting room, club or talk to a far away friend and receive notice that another in our fellowship was taken. That news is often cause for me to sit down and reflect on how special that person was. Sometimes my eyes will tear up and I'll say a little prayer for them & thank GOD I was given an opportunity to see them in the rooms all the time and hear something that they might have said. It's sobering to me that I've now been able to feel the sensitivity that had so long been medicated by alcohol and "other things".

I've been reborn as a thinking feeling human being, and I'm grateful. The loss of my second wife (by her choice) still comes up every now and again, and still, after 6 1/2 years it hurts. However, when I really get down to that gut level, self honesty, I can't deny it was the best thing that happened to me for my recovery. GOD did for me what I could not do (nor would have done!) for myself. This May 24th I'll have 7 years (contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition) She's still paying her due's to come into A.A.


Member: Jerry P
Location: Florida
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 10:05:39 AM

Comments

Loss is not always about the death of someone close although it is a tremendous thing to have to go through. Karen, thanks for the topic because recently I have made a series of decisions that I now know were bad. I have lost a person and much respect for myself in this process and have not had ANY good feelings about it. I too have had many people give me the generic answers like was mentioned (let go and let God, this too shall pass, turn it over, etc) and have not found any peace. That is until I read what Karen posted. I get to choose again!

We do not always make good decisions in our lives. Getting sober also doesn't guarantee that all of our decisions from now on will be good either. I have found that out the hard way here but am glad to know that I have the ability to change my decision. And change it I will. Loss is a difficult thing to get thru but I think loss that we create through poor choices is harder to deal with because we have the ability to change it and often times we don't and go on living in pain. I am not saying that death is less painful but something like that is not our choice and we do not have to wrestle with the idea of whether it was a good or bad decision.

I appreciate this site and all of you for letting me post today.


Member: Kimberly W.
Location: USA
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 12:07:16 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Kimberly and I am an alcoholic. I apprecaite the many topics and want to share something that is quite painful for me.While doing my steps, I am having to make an amends in the next 2 hrs, which I may be looking at jailtime for. I do not know what the outcome is and I have been in fear for the past 2 weeks.It is almost unbearable today. But I am sober and have been for quite a while now.And I am powerless. And I today have the willingness to right the wrong that was done. I feel like crying and I think that is ok. It is no longer guilt or shame because I have asked my Higher Power to forgive me and the victims to forgive me and (reluctantly and thru much work) I have forgiven myself. Thanks to everyone who has shared because I have gotten something from each excerpt, from the longest to the shortest one. Today, I am willing to move through the fear, surrender it to my Higher Power and right the wrong. Thanks for being here.


Member: Dave B.
Location: Sarnia,Ont.Canada
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 4:34:56 PM

Comments

Wow this is my first trip to this site.Iam really pleased to see AA at work on the net.Ialso have experienced a lose of a relationship and it was and still is painful but thank God for my AA familly that have been there for me.THE ONE THING THAT i AS A Alcoholicmust always remember is that a drink will not make any thing better and with the help of God as I understand him I am never alone.As it is written in the Big Book "as we trudge the happy road to destiny(not tip toe thru the tulips)I always remember FIRST THINGS FIRST. I wish everyone another day of sobriety


Member: Edie R
Location: South Carolina
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 5:22:22 PM

Comments

Hello, Edie here, Alcoholic. Good topic Karen. When I was drinking I let go of NOTHING. I grieved nothing, got over nothing, dealt with nothing. I thank God that I was sober when my Daddy died in 1992 because I was able to grieve his death and I had my support system (sponsor, AA family, and meetings). Unfortunately I went back out in 1995 for 2 and a half years but the grieving of my Father's death had been done and it has not bothered me since. Sure I still miss him, some days more than others.

Now grieving over loss like, let's say a relationship, been there too. My sponsor would tell me anytime I got into a risky relationship " Go ahead and go for it as long as you are willing to accept any consequences sober". I did just that one time. I looked at it more as a learning experience, one that hurt bad. This alcoholic has to hurt bad to learn anything. I grew from this experience and I didn't repeat that one, not yet anyway. I am grateful for all the people God has put in my life. I have learned from each of them. When I just can't seem to figure out what God's will for me to do is I just pray and pray and pray until I feel clear about it. When I feel clear and only then do I take action (this is for relationships only). I only have my own path in which to walk and God guides me and sometimes speaks through other people.

Please just be willing to accept consequences sober.


Member: ChuckM
Location: Alberta
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 6:17:28 PM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic. 5 years ago my 4 month old granddaughter died from crib death. The night before I think was the first time she made the connection between my voice and face. How can one so small and in such a short time affect so many people. I tear up everytime I think of her. I some times think this is the first time I truly felt emotion.

My other loss is when I finally realized that my wife was never going to love me. I had the choice of being miserable or of accepting and living my life in peace and serenity. Because of this situation I attended many more AA meetings and Big Book studies and now have a message of hope to pass on.

Tonight I am slated to speak at a speaker meeting at a neighboring group. I do no preparation and depend on my God to supply me with a message. I am always interested what happens. I t always is my life but various aspects are emphasized.

In my case loss has always led me to better things in the long run.

Peace and Serenity.


Member: willie makeit
Location: dontknowyet,Kentucky
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 6:54:58 PM

Comments

(((Dave B.))) Excellent topic! First Things First.


Member: Jim B.
Location: Roi Namur, RMI
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 7:46:54 PM

Comments

Hi All, Jim B. here, happy to know I'm alcoholic and grateful to be sober. Thanks for the topic Karen. Loss is a tough one to deal with, but an unavoidable part of life. For me when the going gets tuff in these situations I get back to basics. Realizing that God is in charge and not I helps to get me moving in the right direction. Then I follow whatever guidence comes to mind that steers me away from my first impulse to drink or drug. Sometimes all I can do is suit up and show up and let God take care of the results. I inevitably find that God does for me what I cannot do for myself. Hindsight being 20/20 I can see that if nothing else I am able to be present in the here and now, clean and sober. I am also able to be supportive to significant others who may have feared that this event would cause me to relapse. Having walked through the expierience I am always grateful to have followed the thin small voice within as the answers become appearant. Often there is no second chance to do things over once I know the outcome of the bigger picture. Aloha, Jim


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 4/24/00
Time: 11:56:13 PM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and aaddict, sober today only by the Grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! Thanks to the techs for their dedication and all those who have shared on this topic about loss!

I experienced the loss of my grandmother, whom I was very close to and who was like a mother to me, in the 1st or 2nd year of my sobriety. I felt a whole range of emotions, anguish, shock etc., which wasn't pleasant but at least I could feel. And I didn't have to drink!

Equally significant, common sense told me this was a situation that could lead me to the bottle, so I made an extra effort to deal with this loss, using the tools of the program, i.e., sharing about this loss with AA people I knew and by "staying close to the program" in general.

I have also found that grieving seems to be a natural byproduct of staying sober for me. I seem to be more acutely aware of loss, both involving events that have occurred in the past and those of the present. It's a type of catharsis in which I deal with all different types of losses or changes. I think this is often about being reborn through the AA program, shedding the old for the new, so to speak.


Member: Anna S.
Location: Pgh, Pa.
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 12:48:46 AM

Comments

Anna here...i am an alcoholic. I have been sober 5 years.Part of my recovery came from loss. Loss of a father who was an alcoholic also. I had to deal with that loss and shared a special prayer with another family who was in the same space in time. She had also lost a father to alcoholism. My renewed faith in God helped my to deal with my lost as it also helped my friend. We attend AA meetings together. Through fellowship in AA we have dealt with much loss together. There is power in numbers and with our higher power supporting us how can we go wrong. Thank you all for sharing a part of your lives with me.


Member: Tim P.
Location: Utah
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 1:15:04 AM

Comments

My name is Tim and I'm a Alcoholic great to be clean & sober today . These are 2 great topics I've read some very interesting posts they have helped me a great deal


Member: Willie R.
Location: New Mex.
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 7:19:27 AM

Comments

Love this topic. First Things First has been a saying that has helped me millions of times.

I needed to know it is best to concentrate on the issue at hand and not focus on yesterday or tommorrow. BE HERE NOW! That is probably the same "One Day at a Time".

First Things First is the best topic i ever seen here THANKS.


Member: Tom S
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 8:22:03 AM

Comments

Hi. My name is Tom and I am an alcoholic. I have been in recovery for almost 3 months after a relapse. By God's grace, MY LAST RELAPSE! The topic of loss is noe that is very close to me. Like everyone who is alcoholic, I have suffered great losses. The loss of my self-respect, the loss of my families trust and love, the loss of being able to even trust myself. I have come to realize that many of the "losses" that I have obsessed upon are actually not losses at all. They we were things that needed to be taken from my life. I know that may sound confusing but it is very clear to me. I cannot pretend to know what's best for everyone but my HP has made it abundantly clear what is best for me, at this time. I order for me to make amends, there is no way I can do it without experiencing some losses. As each day goes by, the lossses become less painful and I am able to more realisitically assess them. I am beginning to trust myself and my family is slowly beginning to do the same. The pain of loss doesn't, and shouldn't go away over night. Grieving is important and I encourage all who feel the pain to alow yourself the space you need to go through the grieveing cycle. May God Bless you all real good!


Member: Linda M
Location: New Jersey
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 9:33:35 AM

Comments

I am Linda an alcoholic. Willie R, the topic was chosen by Karen (losses in Sobriety) and is not what willie makeit from kentucky thinks it should be. The topic is posted by the first person here at the beginning of each week. We do not change the topic mid stream just because someone wants to. Please stick with the topic at hand because obviously Karen wanted input about it.

Losses happen whether we are sober or drunk. The difference for me today is that I do not drink over them anymore as a way of running from them. Karen, I would like to tell you that I really liked what that woman told you about rechoosing. Contrary to what many think, it is written nowhere that we cannot change our minds and try again. So if the opportunity is there for you to rechoose then I say go for it! Maybe that woman is right when she said that maybe it was not meant to go away because you were not meant to lose it. That hit me hard because I have spent alott of time trying to get over things that I chose to walk away from with very little success. Thanks to your post and that woman's advice to you, I am rethinking some of these decisions I made. Maybe I was not meant to lose some of these things either and have been trying to hard to avoide rechoosing. Thanks again for bringing that to light for me.


Member: Willie
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 9:59:41 AM

Comments

(((Linda M.))) Are you the new "god" in here? Fuck You!

Reaad the most recent posts and you will see there are three(3) currently being discussed.

So another big "fuck you" to you! You rotten control-freak asshole!


Member: Willie
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 10:03:37 AM

Comments

ATTENTION everyone:

We will continue with the three chosen topics of this forum:

one) Lossess two) First Things First three) My First Meeting

We have been discussing these topics for the past few days and regardleess of what (((Linda M.))) wants the world to be we will continue!


Member: Monica
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 10:20:36 AM

Comments

Hi Im Monica im an alcoholic. I found this discussion romm today. By the Grace of God I have 60 days sober this week. I believe i as lead here for a reason. I have never been able to deal with my losses. Ilost my husband 5 years ago. and after that I met a man whom I was with for 4 years and lost him too both due to drunk driving. The way I dealt with this was turning to the bottle. Now that I am sober I am trying to deal with it. I have heard alot of good things here. Thank you. I know today I have God in my life and I can face it. I want to thank Jennifer especially. You gave me a wonderful idea. Just because they are not here does not mean I cant make amends. I am so grateful that I found this discussion. God bless each and eveyone of you.


Member: AA
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 11:05:03 AM

Comments

Willie --- please take your filthy language to the coffee pot where they talk that way all the time. Linda is correct about how this meeting works. Go back and read the instructions above. The first one here picks the topic for the week. We don't just pick 3 or 4 topics because someone wants to. However, the topic does change every week. So if you don't like what we are discussing this week then come back next week. But please don't start that negative crap here with your filthy, nasty remarks.


Member: Joseph H
Location: SD
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 11:15:58 AM

Comments

Hi Im Joseph an alky. I agree with AA, Willie. We are sick of all the negativity and want to discuss the topic that was chosen by Karen. We are not discussing 3 topics but the one that Karen chose for the week. Do us all a favor and refrain from making your nasty comments here. You have quite the nerve accusing Linda of being a control freak! Who is really trying to control here? Looks to me like it is YOU! I for one don't want to read your nasty comments so take it to the pot.

As for the topic at hand, LOSSES. Karen, I thank for bringing it up. This has been a very difficult thing for me. When I first got sober I was under the misconception that being sober meant life became a piece of cake. How WRONG I was. Life continues in the way it is meant to and sobriety means that I need to learn to deal with it without the drink. Losses are a fact of life, at least now I am able to mourn them or rethink and change them, rather than run from them.


Member: Happi
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 11:35:10 AM

Comments

I agree with AA and Joseph. Willie, if you do not like this meeting forum go somewhere else. You talk about Linda wanting to control, just who do you think you are coming here and announcing that we will be discussing 3 topics. Follow the site rules or get lost! Your nasty and disgusting remarks to Linda only serve to show all of us just what kind of sobriety you have. Personally, I don't want what you have!


Member: Kim S.
Location: Alabama
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 11:47:37 AM

Comments

I'm Kim and an alcoholic. Thank you for the topic of losses Karen. But, please do not come down on Willie for sharing on first things first. Were we in an actual face-to-face meeting, he would be able to share on what was on his mind and if this is a pattern of AA meetings, then let's keep and open heart and an open mind. The only requirement to be in AA is to have a desire to stop drinking. We do like to keep the negativity down and the cursing to a low minimum. As the Big Book says, we are all sick trying to get well. Our common bond keeps us together.

I have ended a relationship that was not good for me. I had been dating this man for 6 months and am grateful to this program because I could see patterns of dishonesty, manipulation and cheating. And no matter how lonely I feel, I know today that I don't have to accept that. So although I feel good about taking care of myself, I still feel some loss. But after writing, I see now that the loss I feel is from what I had thought he could be in my life and not from the relationship in itself. I know that this too will pass and I am taking it one day at a time. I will continue to share with others and thank you for being here for me in cyber space to share.I have been sober for 15 years and for today, I choose again not to drink.


Member: DD
Location: Miami
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 12:01:07 PM

Comments

Kim S, nobody came down on Willie for the topic he brought up. Go back and read his nasty posts to Linda and his use of the F___ word and then calling her nasty names. No where did Linda or anyone else make such nasty remarks to him. We merely pointed out that we are following the site directions. Make sure you know what you are defending before you defend it! I am with the rest of em here. THE TOPIC IS WHAT KAREN CHOSE. GET OVER IT!


Member: Jan S.
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 12:19:11 PM

Comments

Hi everyone. I'm Jan and I'm an alcoholic. It actually feels good to say that. I have been fighting that for 9 months.

I was sober for twelve years!!!! What happened to me. I never thought I would be in this position again. I have such a good life!!

We are moving again. We moved so many times over the years. Then we moved back "home" for twelve years. And--I was fine.

Then we moved and I have been here for 9 months. I had to have a hysterectomy five days before the move. It has taken so long to get over that with the hormones and everthing.

Now I have found out that I have a "bulge" in the vertebre (sp.) in my neck and it hurts all the time.

I couldn't move into my house at first because of the operation so it took a while before I felt like this was home.

And--it's been really lonely!! I'm want to support my wonderful husband. We moved because this was such a good promotion and opportunity for both us. We will probably be able to retire early.

Now another company called and we have decided to take their offer because they offered a lot of money. I agreed to do this. So, we are moving from this state to another.

All of this is good news. I should be very grateful. But I'm finding this hard to do again. Why can't I handle this. Poo00r Me.

My husbandsJJ Dad was alcoholic and he doesn't feel like his dad ever loved him. Now he has to put up with me.

I love my kids so much and my husband and my grandkids. I know how to fix this but I can't get over this stupid hump. My pride is keeping me from getting help.

This site has made me feel so good. You all are so kind and wonderfull. I love to hear what you have to say.

Will you please help me. I miss my friends and family. I thought I was stronger than this. It was hell for so long. How did I let this happen.


Member: Willie
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 12:59:38 PM

Comments

If all you morons that are posting nasty remarks about my right to discuss stuff would read the prior posts you will see that the topics of "First Things First" and "My First Meeting" was already a part of the "lossess" discussion for a long time. Who says we can not discuss more than one topic? Your a nasty bunch!

NO! I wont go away! The more you try to get me outta here....the more I'll post and fight!

Go take a big dump!


Member: Steve L
Location: indy
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 3:09:23 PM

Comments

I lost income,but still went furthur than expected.I lost quality of relationships,but still have the loves of my life active and viable.By some fluck of nature my health is excellent.What I feel I have lost is the opportunity to mature along normal timeframe.I feel like I'm stuck around the 30"S when I am close to 50.The God given gifts I wasted in not developing normally rather stagnating in an inebriated fog seem a sin to me now.I will always feel I cheated myself and regret the lost opportunity.I love my sobriety and the chance to grow it affords.


Member: Nola B.
Location: Branson, Mo
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 3:18:46 PM

Comments

Hi I just found this site and am really happy to know I have some where to go on-line. I don't do real well with face to face meetings, never feel I have anything important to say but I do like to listen. My losses are different then alot of peoples as I lost myself when I started drinking, now with 9 months of being sober the old happy me is starting to come out again. I am again fun to work with and being a waitress I make it fun for my guests to enjoy their meal. I am so very happy to be sober, I thank my higher power each and everyday for not giving up on me. Smile God Loves ya


Member: Cathy M
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 4:48:34 PM

Comments

Thanks to all of you! I needed to read some of this stuff today.


Member: Newbie in AA
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 5:46:36 PM

Comments

If being sober means turning out to be like Willie then I don't want it. On the other hand I enjoyed reading everyone elses writings.

Willie, I would like to point out that the nasty vulgar posts I have seen are all from you and no one else. I think the 4th step calls for us to take a personal inventory. It is clear from your bad behavior that you are far from that step. Oh well, I guess the only way around your kind, is to completely ignore your existence. I think I will do that.


Member: Linda M
Location: New Jersey
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 5:50:02 PM

Comments

Willie, there is a post for you on the Coffee Pot.


Member: Jennie
Location: Oregon
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 7:33:41 PM

Comments

When I first saw the topic, the only real loss that came to mind was the loss of alcohol, which is the thing I really miss. And I do mourn the end of my drinking, which was my favorite thing in the world to do. I thought about it some more and realized that I ought to be grateful for the loss of blackouts and drunk driving arrests. And I really am glad that I haven't had those in a while and won't ever again.

Wow! I never thought of it like that before. I won't ever have another drunk driving arrest. I won't ever have another blackout. Now, those are losses to be proud of.

However, in the traditional sense, I really haven't had any losses since I've been sober that have challenged my sobriety. I can only hope that I will handle them well.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Thorty
Location: Minnesota
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 9:22:08 PM

Comments

I too have just encountered this site and I'm glad I did. I got my 3rd DUI on March 18th and I finally realized that I have a drinking problem and need to seek some help from others.


Member: Roy S.
Location:
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 9:50:42 PM

Comments

Loss is a good topic, indeed. There are times when I think about all the things I lost as a result of my drinking - lost job opportunities, health, friends, etc. But when I think about all of the things that I now have an opportunity to attain in sobriety, I know that my life can still indeed be good and fruitful. I have come to realize that I cannot dwell on what might have been, but on what might be. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Pauline M
Location: MA
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 10:04:17 PM

Comments

I'm an alcoholic & I haven't posted here for a while. I've noticed some things haven't changed though; namely, the bickering.

"You get what you need". Thanks, Karen, for a wonderful topic. How do I handle loss in sobriety? A true test for me these last 16 days--my dad passed away. I've been sober a little over 4 months and it would have so easy for me to use his passing as an excuse for me to drink, but I didn't. I got on my knees every morning and asked my Higher Power to keep away the desire for a drink and I thanked Him at night. I took it one day at a time--sometimes one minute but I did not pick up the first one and I did not and have not gotten drunk. I loved my dad and I'll miss him tremendously--because I was sober I was able to be with him during his last days in the hospital and was able to make funeral arrangements, order flowers and be the "big sister" that I am. I thank God and AA for giving me the gift of sobriety that has helped me through this. Thank you.


Member: Tacey C.
Location: Arizona
Date: 4/25/00
Time: 10:32:41 PM

Comments

Hey, everyone. My name is Tacey and I'm an alcoholic. I got halfway through the posts and had to stop because my computer will kick me off if I don't do something. And, what a great subject for me. I have been dealing with the loss of divorce for the past 18 months (the divorce was finalized Jan 2000). It has been, of course, one of the hardest things I've ever had to go through in sobriety. It was my first marriage (had five kids but no husband) and we were both sober in AA. The relationship lasted for almost 13 years (the marriage was shorter). I have relearned how stubborn and hard-headed I am when it comes to letting go of things that are attached to my security. It's kind of like the drinking and drugging--if I could have thought of ONE more thing that might have worked, I'd still be in that relationship. But, I ran out of options and between my heart and my head--something had to go and it was him. Today I go through my days and so many things are different. I am really into "suiting up and showing up" as a means of survival. I am not happy about the way things have turned out, but, I am grateful for the fact that it has finally come to an end. I have to go back to the basics because I feel, oftentimes, like a newcomer. So, a great topic and I can tell anyone that you CAN survive loss and stay sober. It's just not easy or fun. But, it's getting better every day.


Member: Ami
Location: SF, CA
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 2:01:23 AM

Comments

Hi, I'm Ami and an alcoholic... Thanks for the topic and the shares :-) I agree with everyone's definition of loss, and the words of wisdom come as a comfort to me even though I haven't lost anyone in quite some time. I have almost four months in AA, and feel I have been given the greatest gift I could possibly get. My major loss was time and my life. I completely gave myself to self-indulgent drinking for too many years. Almost immediately after taking the first step I was able to feel like I had some control over my thoughts and actions. Making a connection with my Higher Power is far better than anything a bottle could do for me!!! Nothing can take that from me, I hope I never lose it. Good days to us all.


Member: Jack B.
Location: Cumbola Pa
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:00:42 AM

Comments

Hi, I am Jack a real alcoholic.When I think of loss in sobriety,I remember as a newcomer all I ever did was talk about loss.I lost this , I lost that.Now being classified by some as an old timer I think about how much I want to lose today in sobriety.I would love to lose this self centeredness that pops up at times, I would love to lose this lack of faith that occurs at times.The fear that sometimes pops into my mind whether it is real or imagined.Today I am more concerned with losing my character defects than I am about material things.I accept loss- death of my mother in 1996- as hard as it was at the time and still hurts today as just life.When I drank I never lost anything of material value, but I lost me, I lost all values that had been instilled in me, I lost all hope that at the end I just didn't care anymore.There can be no greater loss to anyone than when they lose all hope.I learned the hard way from the A,B,C's of life.Adversity Builds Character.If I pick up a drink today, I will lose something more valuable and priceless to me than any material thing, any relationship or anything else.I will lose my sobriety and again lose all hope and eventually I will die. Sobriety for this alcoholic is the only game in town, if I lose that I have absolutely nothing left.Great topic thanks for allowing me to share.God Bless All.


Member: tom s
Location: Michigan
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 8:25:39 AM

Comments

To JanS: I read your post and I wish there was something I could do to personally help you. I will keep you in my thoughts and try to send good karma your way. Change is difficult for everyone but especially difficult for alcoholics. When I feel like, (and I do often) I just start living my life day by day. It helps. Take care and feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk. thomass833@aol.com


Member: Willie M.
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 8:36:38 AM

Comments

Good topic indeed......First Thing First.

To often i am in such a hurry to do a lot of stuff that i forget First Things First.i recal one afternoon when my mom wanted me to run an errend and i said"ok" then i went and did something else and nearly forgot what my mom wanted me to do for her. i felt really guilty and picked up a drink.Dont know if it was because of the guilt feelings or because i resented her hitting me in the head with the heavy frying pan.At age 40 it can be a bit embarrassing to have your mom strike you in the head in front of a bunch of people. Does the fact that i did not do first things first got me to drink? Or was it the humiliation? Or resentment. They say "H.A.L.T." Hungry...Angry...Lonely.....Tired will cause me to drink.But then again i read where Resentment will cause a person to drink.

Now i begin to really wonder if not doing first things first will cause someone to pick-up that drink? Afterall, if you've been to a "Live" AA meeting, there are signs on the wall like: "Live and Let Live" and "There but for the grace of god..." and "One day at a time" and "What you see here stays here" and "Easy does it".

Which makes me wonder....if i dont "easy does it" will i pick up a drink? If i do not "live and let live" will i pick up a drink"

If i do not approach life "one day at a time" will i get drunk?

It gets very confusing sometimes.Maybe i need to apply the "easy does it" and "first things first" at this moment! So many sayings.....so much advice and dire warnings. It can get scary! Fear,lots of fear seems to help me stay sober. Another one i like is: "contempt prior to investigation"...WOW! i amm always guilty of that! i try not to do it but find i hate a lot of people i do not even know at any level of intimacy.Maybe i am a misanthrope. I'lll introduce myself,at meetings ,as:"Hi,my name is Willie and i am an Misanthrope/Alcoholic that fails to do first things first and does not live and let live nor do i practice restraint from contempt prior to invetigation while not taking it all one day at a time" Or would that be a tedious and annoying intro?I'm not sure.I am sure of one thing,i want my mom to stop hiitng me with that heavy frying pan and i mean not just the physical(emperical) pan but the metaphorical(emotionaly abusive) pan.Know what i mean.I mean at forty it can be embarrassing. I gotta go...mom wants me to do an errand.First things first...gotta remember that one or its a lump on my head!


Member: Willie
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 8:40:19 AM

Comments

i guess my message is: DONT DRINK TODAY even if your mom hits you in the head with the heavy frying pan!


Member: Nan
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:20:43 AM

Comments

Willie, just one more reminder for you since that thick skull of yours doesn't seem to let much penetrate. The topic is "How we handle losses in sobriety."

Getting hit in the head with frying pan might Help! People like you only cause more troubles than you are worth. I agree with the rest of the gang here, you have nothing I want!

ps: The instructions for this site also state to limit ourselves to only one post per "week" here! Do you have a problem understanding instructions? Or is it just that inflated ego of yours? Let others use the space to post their ESH and get the hell over yourself. We are not interested and reading anymore of your crap!


Member: Karen S
Location: Elgin, IL
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:30:24 AM

Comments

I am sorry to the site for posting twice this week, but I just want to say to Willie from sarasota.

Thank you for ruining the discussion on a topic that I REALLY needed to hear some experience, strength and hope on. You have done a very good job of turning this weeks site into a free for all brawl! It seems like every week we have people like you come around here to ruin it for everyone else.

I suppose it doesn't matter anymore either because I have also noticed that the result of people like you coming and starting trouble is the loss of some good longer term sober people coming on this site. It is sad to think we can't even have a meeting without disruptive people like you.

For those that shared on the topic chosen for the week, I thank you all. I am not coming back to this website anymore.


Member: Cheryl
Location: Chicago
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:42:32 AM

Comments

I am C from Chicago and a recovering drunk. Karen, I am sorry to read that you will not be coming back because in keeping with the site instructions, your topic is what I will speak to.

Loss in sobreity is a very different thing for me today. I have recently been through the loss of a husband (through divorce) and have had to work through the pain instead of around it. Once I was able to reach the other side of the tunnel, I could see clearly how the divorce was the right thing. I also was able to realize that I learned much about myself through that loss. In the past instead of feeling the feelings I would get drunk and cause trouble. And as many know here, that gets us absoluely nowhere. Today I try to tell myself that whenever I experience a loss, yes it will hurt but always remember that something is learned by going through it.

Again, I am sorry that you feel the need to leave Karen. Hope you will reconsider. As for Willie, people just need to remember that some are sicker than others. If we all just ignore him and go on with our meeting we will all be much better off.

Thanks to all.


Member: Paul W
Location: Laguna Beach
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:43:42 AM

Comments

Willie......ONE POST PER WEEK!


Member: A member
Location: Earth
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 10:23:59 AM

Comments

Willie

Move out of the house or buy Mom an aluminum fry pan. Choice is yours. Does misanthrope mean anally retenetive or unteachable in some other language?


Member: Willie M.
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 10:35:05 AM

Comments

(((Karen S.))) Thanks for the topic. "My First Meeting " is a fine subject to discuss.Let's see.....mmmmm....my first meeting? OK here goes:

My first meeting was in 1975 and,although i wa already sober (on my own doing for 16 months), i had not one clue on how to be COMFORTABLE in sobriety. There is a difference!

When i walked into the "Catacombs" group (in Watertown ,Massachusetts) the man who was later to become my sponser escorted me.I will be forever grateful to that man(B.H.).

Of course i felt very very nervous and was sweating and shy feeling.

The people there were wonderful.They were freindly without being phony about it.What i liked most was that noone pressured me ,or said i "HAD" to do anything.The entire scene seemed to lack a dogma.Which i found to be an attractive aspect because i grew up with a fanaticaly Catholic mom.So anything with a dictatorial or abusively controlling factor was repulsive.

I recall the many people who were kind to me. There was: Bill N.,Sally V.,Sammy K.,Clyde H.,Al c.,Helen Y.,Karen A., Paul k., David and his wife Rhonda, Darnell T.,Darian O., Trish J., and a few more that have since departed so it would not be respectful of me to write their names here.

First meetings are so important.Since that day(actually 16 months prior) i have not found it necessary to pick up a drink.I feel grateful to god for all of that. What that meeting did was: It gave me a lot of hope.It made me feel i was not alone.It helped me begin to relate better to fellow carbon-based bipeds.it provided me with a safe place to go and vent my feelings and possibly be understood. My first meeting was a very positive experience.The way to look at it is: If i had not attended my first meeting i would not have gone to my second meeting(or the hundreds of meetings since).

"MY FIRST MEETING "and "First Things First" are excellent topics.....Thank You Karen for all your kindness and help to others.


Member: Jonnie B
Location: Wisconsin
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 12:37:43 PM

Comments

Karen S, I too am sad that you will not post here anymore. There is only one bad seed here but the rest of us want to continue with your topic and a good one it is. I also hope you will reconsider your decision to not return. I agree with Cheryl about ignoring our site's little nusance!

Loss in sobriety was something I was not prepared for. I had to work the steps very hard with my sponsor and many other winners in the program in order to finally get that being sober did not mean everything was a cake walk from here on out. I experienced a few deaths initially and got through them with some help, but then I started to experience loss as a result of my own choices. As you stated, Karen, these were the most difficult losses to deal with. I liked what you said about rechoosing because I also was told that by someone in these rooms and on one occassion I did that. It was scary becasue I too ran the risk of rejection. I took the risk and thank God it turned out OK. The end of that story was that my first choice was not a good one and I needed to learn to swallow my pride and ego enough to take the risk I did. It was a tough but necessary lesson.

Losses are a part of our everyday life but for us alcoholics it can be deadly if we do not learn to deal with them constructively. Thanks for this weeks topic, Karen. I do hope you will return to share with us again.


Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 12:47:29 PM

Comments

DonF, Recovering Alcoholic One of my losses was self-centeredness and ego. One of the big things I drank over was job. (Why didn't they promote me? Don't they know how brilliant I am? Don't they recognize what I gave up to let them kick my butt around the country, and for what? They OWE me!) So gradually that attitude slipped away. Gradually, not immediately. Now, I'm grateful I still have a job this week. I think, but I haven't been there since monday. Ego sometimes comes back. Like it did last week, when I started to preach to Doreen (or something like that) not to disregard her sponsor, and etc. and went on and on like a pompous Mr. AA ass. I apologize to all. I got stuffed, and good riddance. It's PRINCIPLES NOT PERSONALITIES, and I have no lock on the interpretations of the program. All have something to offer, ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS and those who have a confusion on some point, because it makes us reconsider our own program and dig down for the truth and wisdom. Willie M., thanks for the civil and thoughtful comments, steeped in the wisdom of 20+ years. I always heard around these halls that OBSCENITY IS THE CRUTCH OF THE CONVERSATIONALLY IMPAIRED. Thanks all for your experience, hope, and strength.


Member: DonF
Location: NH
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 1:33:06 PM

Comments

Don, Still alcoholic, I'm sorry for the second post, but I forgot to give ScottW in HongKong an answer to his question. Look it up in the phone book; AA is everywhere. Someone will call and talk it over and help you get to a meeting, if you are ready. It's the same in HongKong,as it is in Kankakee, except you'd have more anonymity in HongKong. If not, contact AA Central Services, it's on the web, to find a meeting. You've taken a first step by reaching out and asking for some kind of help. Questions? Donaldo88@aol.com


Member: Becky
Location: FL
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 2:09:59 PM

Comments

Hello all

I am new and may visit again although some of the bantering is upsetting!! I appreciate the topic of the week as yesterday was my very first AA meeting ever. My sense of loss overpowers me sometimes due to missed opportunities and how much I pushed away good people. I created those "losses". I believe that I will appreciate the irony of that forever. Thanks for the chance to post. Send me a mental hug!!!! =-)


Member: John J
Location: Helena, MT
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 2:32:49 PM

Comments

Hi everyone, couldn't make my regular meeting and so appreciate the chance to share and listen here. To the newcomers; this deal works, my story in a nut shell is The only way out for me was death but my higher power had a differnt idea, I worked the steps with a sponser' had a spiritual awakening and find myself today having a postive experience after my 21 year old nephew was tragically killed. I am able to go ahead and feel my pain and come out the other side with graditude. Pain is not a negative thing but just pain and we can deal with life with the program of alcoholics anonomous. Thanks, thats all I have.


Member: Hey you
Location:
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:06:35 PM

Comments

Willie's messages are our sites asshole who's parents forgot to give him a name, so he possess as others ....ignore the poor bastard! Willie may have posted the first Willie...but the rest are certainly the piss-ant nobody that lurks about to harm anyone he is jealous of...don't give him your power.


Member: Connie N
Location: Beautiful Sunny Minnesota
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:30:34 PM

Comments

Hi, Guys! Iím Connie and Iím an alcoholic.

For me, admitting Iím an alcoholic has meant saying goodbye to a very dear unconditional friend. Thatís how I felt at the beginning of this trek. Alcohol consoled me when I was unhappy, feeling uncertain, feeling insufficient. It made my good moods better and settled my nervesÖor so I thought. I now see how much control alcohol had over my life---it owned me.

Alcohol caused loss in my life---the relationship I had with my husband and son was in serious decline, my work was suffering, and I had been setting everything aside in my life in order to make room for my drinking. I began on this sobriety trek last November after the loss of two very good unconditional friends (my two dogs Henry and Sam). After losing them my drinking had gone out of control. By January I was reeling in sobriety because during the past years Iíd allowed my drinking to ďfixĒ everything and now that I wasnít drinking everything still needed fixing and I of course wanted it fixed and I wanted it fixed now!

Itís taken me these last couple of months to finally let go of everything---to let my higher power have his way with my life. And itís working! 24 hours at a time, with Godís help I will make it!

Thanks for a great topic, Karen! Hope you keep coming backÖit works! :-)

PS HANG IN THERE, GUS!(new guy from LA)! Keep your eye on the goalÖitís worth it! Take it from one who didnít think the AAís knew what they were talking about. You donít know the true gifts of sobriety until youíve actually had it awhile.


Member: Corrine
Location: New Mex.
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:32:26 PM

Comments

Anybody here notice that little Weenie Willie doesn't post anything on the Coffee Pot? What does that tell ya? It says that he is a huge chicken sh__! They don't take kindly to people like him on the coffee pot and he can't handle the heat over there so he lurks here....Ha Ha Ha, he is afraid of the Coffee Pot...Poor worthless Bastard!


Member: Connie N
Location: MN
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:48:25 PM

Comments

Hi, Connie again.

Sorry to post twice but just had to add one comment on this ongoing willie saga. If we refuse to throw the ball back to Willie, he can't play can he? It's like trying to reason with a 3-year old having a tantrum. You just have to listen to it and then move on.

Thanks for listening.


Member: Karen G.
Location: n.m.
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 4:52:10 PM

Comments

to Karen on loss-excellent.I am Karen and i am an alcoholic.In 25 years i have lost a husband and my 2 chuldren-to deal with it-the only way out is through-acceptance,working through the pain,one step at a time.it's like starting over, not a bad thing for everything takes on a new look,a fresher look.But we must be willing.It takes time,sometime it takes a alot of time,that's o.k.God will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves if we are willing.


Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:01:11 PM

Comments

I'm Fred and I'm an alcoholic, sober today by the grace of God. Thanks, Karen, for the topic of loss in sobriety.

I was drunk during the last week of my hero's life, then drunk at his funeral. It was my grandfather, who died when I was 34. Staying drunk was how I dealt with loss back then, and how I dealt with everything else, as well. Then through a miracle of God, I was given the gift of sobriety. In time, I was given the gifts of skills and tools to deal with life, including the losses. Now I have a higher power who grants me serenity when I work the steps and serve others. He answers my prayers and I seek understanding of the answers. One of my prayers is to be able to face all of the losses life sends, and try to grow from the experience. In the end, I pray that I can face the loss of my own life, and face it with strength, serenity, and peace. I agree with Jack B who posted earlier in this discussion. My greatest loss would not be my life, that of a loved one, a job, or any material possession. It would be the loss of my sobriety. Thanks to all who shared here on loss and the other topics. It helps me stay sober. Thanks for letting me share. Love, Fred


Member: "S"
Location: NH
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 9:25:15 PM

Comments

THANKS TECHS, YOU ARE THOUGHT OF AND PRAYED FOR AND MUCH APPRECIATED!

I have had occasion to share on the topic of Loss (Thanks Karen) twice already this week, and I can't see this subject under discussion as a coincidence at all. I am coming out the other side of a difficult week-end, and hope that perhaps what little I've gained is of use to others who read.

I suffered through the loss of a marriage and difficult husband shortly after I stopped drinking. He was a dangerous manipulative person prone to physical violence and death threats. Last week, after 7 years sober and 6 years divorced from him I learned through a friend that he had passed away a few months ago. (Restraining orders and laying low against stalking behavior didn't make me easy to find.)I was not at all prepared for the wall of emotions that hit me, but was very grateful that there was a meeting in progress just down the street. It took a few days just to sort out what all those feelings were. One helpful comment was from a sister who also has survived a few "jolts from the past": that they showed her that she "hadn't properly dealt with it" before she buried it.

Today I was able to share with a trusted friend my exact feelings of sadness; and the guilt over the relief I felt to hear the news. (I had always hoped he'd get the "help" he needed, but just wanted the situation over with.) I felt much better about looking forward to a new measure of freedom when she told me that I "had earned it." It is certainly a good feeling to know that I can move forward free of those fears that have plagued me all this time. Sometimes we just need someone to remind us that we do deserve it, and that no matter what, we can be forgiven.

The most valuable comment I gained came from and after-meeting chat today, a friend who told me to set aside the guilt. And I have to agree, Guilt in it's many forms has been part of the weapons Fear has used on me throughout all my losses. Guilt implies that I have somehow failed...and in most cases of Loss, there is not anything at all I could or should have done differently. After all HP knows better than I.....(Guilt is also a handy road to self-pity, another thing I've had plenty of by now!)

Thanks bonzo, those choices we have are definitely a treasure not to be wasted.

Thanks Dennis M. Sharing through AA definitely does bring that measure of relief.

Jenn L. from Dallas, I hope you can relate, as I did to your situation.

Thanks ALL for letting me share, wishing you another 24!


Member: GREGG G.
Location: KENNEWICK, WA
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 10:34:48 PM

Comments

KEEP COMING BACK, IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!


Member: ian b
Location: wellington nz
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 10:45:06 PM

Comments

hi i'm ian an alchy/addict/faggot too,my feeling of loss is really something that confuses me at the moment'cause iv'e been to very few meetings over the last six months after begining this programme last june.i don't know whether losing my father or my old ways habits etc mean the same thing. when i'm strong mentally i remember the good stuff about these losses and when i'm weak or losing it i only focus on the bad buzz i got and carry it around. that's the lesson i've learn't from being away from AA because i'm back i a bad space again and focussing on the negative side of it. thanx karen for the topic it's so timely for me as most meetings are and thanx to staying cyber,something new for me.


Member: Lynn S
Location: OR
Date: 4/26/00
Time: 11:17:39 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Lynn and alcoholic. Hey, Gregg, it does work if you work it and it won't if you don,t. Thank you, Karen. I find loss very very difficult. My faith is in my higher power and when I go through a loss, I try to remember the many times I've survived. When my dad died, I had a hard time. When my kids were estranged. I had a hard time. On some days all I could do is put one foot in front of the other and just keep going. I did what was next. I've been hired and fired and married and divorced while in this program and haven't found it necessary to take a drink for 18 years. Thanks to all for sharing.


Member: Roger A.
Location:
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 12:05:34 AM

Comments

The more I read, the more I realize that AA is truly an insidious and pathological group. I have attended AA and SOS meetings and I wanted to investigate both. I now have 14 months sober. Thanks for helping me realize that SOS recovery is where I truly need to be. There are no personality squabbles, nobody questions the "quality" of one another's sobriety (whatever that means), and it is truly a loving and helping group. Nothing like the nasty junk that I see in AA meetings and here online. I welcome all of you of like mind to check out LifeRing Secular Recovery/ SOS. The website is http://www.unhooked.com


Member: Tom K.
Location: L.I., NY
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 3:54:44 AM

Comments

Hello everyone, my name is Tom I'm an alcoholic. Thank you Karen for the topic on loss. It wasn't until I got sober that I finally was able to deal with the loss of my Dad who had been dead for 14 years at the time and in those 14 years I never once went to visit his grave sight, I guess I never really dealt with losing him or possibly blaming my self due to a whole bunch of circumstances that day and my life style the years leading up to then but after being sober for a few months I was able to do it and spend some time reflecting and when I left I felt at peace. Today I believe he's looking down and seeing the son that I believe he wants me to be, sober and responsible, if it wasn't for AA, the people in the rooms and my Higher Power, God as I understand him, I couldn't have done it. After sponsoring someone for 11 years God needed another angel and took my friend, it was a tough loss, but being sober and having the fellowship I was able to be responsible and I didn't have to drink over it, my life having been enchanced for having met this person and growing close to him. I miss him but I know he's in a better place, and God has put other people in his place for me to help me stay sober and to give away what has been given me. I thank God for the fellowship of AA and all you people, Thanks for letting me share and God bless you all.


Member: Peter T.
Location: New York City
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 10:38:35 AM

Comments

Sorry for the D, just wanted to share these thoughts re my previous post. To all you AA'ers: Think, Think, Think!, and Keep an Open Mind!

What happens when feelings such as anger, grief or dissatisfaction are ignored, denied or covered up for long periods of time? Just turn on the evening news to find out! High school shootings, child abuse, pilots navigating a planeful of passengers into the sea, workplace massacres... Ever hear of the expression "going postal"?

Or, the opposite may happen. If strong feelings are not released outward in acts of violence, they may be released inward as self-destructive behavior, sometimes resulting in suicide.

The good news is that violence, suicide or drinking oneself silly do not have to be the only options! Competent therapists exist. There is help available, and there are constructive ways of dealing with strong emotions. Emotions do not kill. Emotions denied may. Writing, talking, screaming (in a non-destructive way), crying, art and music are all ways of expressing strong emotions constructively.

Why do people stuff their emotions? Because everything in our society encourages and rewards emotional control. Men are socialized to stuff their tender feelings (otherwise they are seen as weak sissies), women are socialized to temper their anger (otherwise they are seen as bitches). What a disservice this is to our natural human development! It does not matter which end of the continuum emotions are clipped, there is a price paid to be paid in either case. When anger is denied, rage starts to build up inside. The Avon lady who is "always" nice is actually seething with rage on the inside. The construction worker who is a real tough guy is actually a frightened little boy on the inside. Why? Because by nature, humans are whole. Extreme outer projections of toughness, "niceness", purity, etc. frequently mask the opposite internal condition. We've all heard of those righteous and holy ministers who are closet child molesters...

If you've ever watched babies, you will have noticed that they are fully emotive creatures. Any inconvenience, a late feeding, a toy she can't reach, a tiny bump of the head results in shrieking cries and full remorseless expression. Once the emotions are let out, the event is forgotten fairly quickly. By crying and expressing herself, the child has realigned herself emotionally and psychologically. The incident is forgotten and the baby returns to its natural, happy state.

Babies don't need drugs or drink to feel alive. They feel alive because they fully experience and express their emotions. While I am not suggesting that people wail like infants over food arriving late at a restaurant, I am suggesting that a full emotional life where feelings are honored and expressed constructively is the goal to work toward. Newly recovering alcoholics and addicts rarely know how to handle their emotions properly. There is a need to find the balance between social acceptability (not being a danger to self and others) while at the same time, honoring emotions rather than denying them, even if those emotions are profound. Infantile expression and utter repression are both extremes for which there is a high cost.

For emotion stuffers, AA does not set out to awaken their emotional worlds. Far from it! Instant "Serenity" is set forth as the immediate emotional goal for all members... serenity being an emotional state devoid of notable highs or lows! Members are taught to avoid strong emotions! Unfortunately, before one can even think about serenity, long repressed deep emotions such as anger, rage and grief must be dealt with. These feelings cannot be "candy coated" with any hope of long term success. Sadly, when members do experience strong emotions they may be shamed for having an emotional relapse, or labeled dry drunks. The state of Serenity, which is presented as emotional flatness, is unhealthy by standards of modern psychology. A broad range of deep emotions, appropriately used is what emotional health is all about! This is what makes life colorful, rich and worthwhile. It is unrealistic to expect to go through life without strong emotions. Life brings joy as well as tragedy. Such is the nature of living.

Because members try to maintain the precarious state of Serenity, but at the same time, are often hiding deep emotional pain, they are frequently living life as emotional time bombs. This is why expression of deep emotions is often discouraged in meetings. Members are to "work the program" on their strong feelings, so they don't feel them with intensity, and most importantly, so they don't express them. The fear is that one person's "time-bomb" (the expression of strong emotion in a meeting)... will detonate the entire mine field.

Instead of working toward the goal of finally opening the Pandora's box of repressed emotions which has been neglected by years of drinking, then fully experiencing and attaching the proper feelings to past life events, many AA members fail to address these issues at all. Why? For several reasons. Firstly, AA suggests that people "let go" of the past in a wave-of-the-hand type of gesture -- to get off the pity pot and focus on the "important" things, like passing on the 12 step "remedy" to others. Also, for many it seems too terrifying to go inside and face the demons of the past! Thus by failing to go back and grieving their own pains and losses, they never develop the emotional sensitivity which is needed to make life pleasurable and which will allow them to be able to empathize with the pain of others. This is why so many sponsors are lack adequate sensitivity. Instead of dealing with the scary past, members often learn to exist in the spiritual fishbowl of AA, riding on religious fluff and an intense social high meanwhile mistakenly attributing their deadened spirit to the "disease" of alcoholism. The intense social high and the rituals of AA keeps the flame from the fuse. Too often, emotions remain buried behind a facade of gratitude for the program and the emotional pretense of serenity.

Surely we can do better than this...


Member: Rachael M.
Location: Napa, Ca.
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 1:42:00 PM

Comments

Hello, my name is Rachael and I'm an alcoholic. I used to visit this site regularly but have been busy with living life recently. Thanks for the topic Karen even if you're not coming back. Loss is very difficult for anybody I imagine, but the sense of loss I experienced upon getting sober was tremendous. I had drank away just about everything important to me. I lost my job, money, the affection of my family, my home etc. I wasn't sure if I could make it in the beginning. I was so depressed. I will have three years in August of this year and I can tell you that things get better. My life is better than I could ever could have imagined it to be right now. I'm getting married to a sober member of AA in about a week. My child is happy and pretty well adjusted. I have a job that I like. We live in a nice home. I get along with my family now. I have many wonderfull friends. All of this happened as a result of working the steps not once so far but three times, continuing to not drink one day at a time no matter how much it hurts, and doing the best I can to grow spiritually and practice these principles(the steps, for newcomers who may not know what the"principles" are), and just continuing to continue. It doesn't get perfect but it gets good. About the person who persists in posting multiple times: one of the most difficult things I've had to learn thus far is that there ARE rules and it does make sense to follow them. For example: if the instructions say "please post only once" then just post only once. It's that simple. Of course, if the person I'm referring to likes to be annoying and contrary then by all means post on. I for one think sobriety requires discretion at times. Thank you everybody for staying sober.


Member: fuk you
Location:
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 2:13:48 PM

Comments

you all a bunch of asholes and fagits! i hope you all choke you fukin pukes


Member: nun of yer fuckin bizness
Location:
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 2:19:52 PM

Comments

You're nothing but a sick buch of low life boozers, that's for sure. I pity you all. I have read all of your pathetic postings and they make me want to regurgitate. I'm going to go get drunk now.


Member: **
Location:
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 2:56:21 PM

Comments

This too Shall PASS(-OUT, if we are lucky!


Member: sunny s
Location: New Bedford, Mass
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 3:56:34 PM

Comments

THANKS TECHS! YOU MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR A LOT OF 12 STEP WORK TO BE DONE.

The most painful loss has been the loss of my health at 4 years of sobriety. I became unable to work, lost my medical coverage, my youngest had to move back home to pay my bills. I wasn't able to get off the couch for more than a couple hours a day. Sitting in a meeting was torture, but I did it. I was so so afraid of what was happening to me. I was doing that fear inventory and saying that fear prayer a couple times a day. I did a lot of telephone service work. It was clear to me that my physical pain didn't equal the newcomers misery. Self pity was my biggest enemy and I had to ask for that to be removed every day. I had to be very careful of my temper, and I had to make a lot of amends anyway. When I found out that I was going to have to live with the pain, and the problem wouldn't kill me or paralyze me, I had to figure out a whole new life. I remember praying for help and guidance, and it seemed like more doors kept closing. I thought I was going to end up living in a shelter and at that time social security would not accept my condition as a disability. (They were forced to change their policy.) I had always worked at least one job, often 2 or 3 to make ends meet for me and the kids. The higher power definitely had a hand in this. My best friend offered to give me a plane ticket to come and get free intensive massage therapy and shiatsu at a massage school he was attending. I prayed for guidance and for the first time got a very clear answer. It was like I was looking into a dark space where no doors were open. Then a window opened up high. I could see clouds and sky as if from an airplane. Events that came from that led to a marriage, a move across country and a new life. It's clear to me that I'm supposed to be here. I wouldn't have come without having all those door close first. Through all of this, the 4th step practices and prayers kept me able to turn it over a little bit at a time. When somebody says Let Go and Let God and they don't say how or what to do instead of hang on, I get frustrated. Anytime I'm in pain, it's the character defects that I have to watch out for. Loss is painful change. I only like good change. I only like it when I think it's good change. Later on I can see that it was necessary. The steps keep me from being as big a jerk as I was when I was drinking.

The greatest miracle in my life is that for 6 years the pain has come and gone repeatedly and I haven't ever thought of taking a drink or drug to stop it. Sometimes, I think I'm not working to the best of my ability, or that I should somehow do more than I am doing in the program. The continuing miracle of living with chronic pain without picking up is very precious evidence to me that it does work. It does. I am very grateful.

Just a last thought.... if someone wants to fight and is muttering or even screaming fight words, don't they look lonely and frustrated when you don't fight with them? Don't you just love the idea that you don't have to make amends to another drunk because you didn't fight when they wanted to fight? I do. I'm also grateful I'm not that person. As long as there are drunks, there are going to be mean fighting drunks. It's just the nature of the disease. Usually it's a good idea to pray for a person displaying such obvious symptoms of progressive disease. Tolerance didn't come in the Welcome Wagon basket when I got sober. I have to seek it. I have to ask for my intolerance to be taken away.(Don't ask for tolerance or patience unless you want trouble.) Then I have to act tolerantly. Simple but not easy. I pray for qall the people who want to fight with the obnoxious drunk too. Even in their extreme sickness, they can be our greatest teachers. Whoops, somebody already said that.


Member: another failure
Location:
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 5:52:53 PM

Comments

I'm a drunk and I am going to kill myself. I have a gun right now and I wanted to write it down somewhere. aa helped make me feel so worthless. nobody cares about me so i have nobody to leave a suicide note to. I just wanted to tell someone that i am going to die. thank you.


Member: CJ
Location: Minnesota
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 6:57:57 PM

Comments

Hi this is my first visit to this site. It has reminded me of many things that I have learned in my time in AA. Next month I will have spent half my life in AA. I am very gratiful for my soberity and the learning road that I have been on. One of my more recent thoughts has been am I where I am today just because of AA or because I've gotten older. To the topic of losses. To experience the emotional range involved with the greiving process one has to have emotions, which mine were frozen for the first year or more of sobriety. Then I wanted a filter that would only let out joyous and happy and free but it doesn't work that way. I was told that when I take off the emotional lid that the first emotions I would experience would be those which we unable to be felt do to my drinking and also do to sever childhood trama, where I had learned not to feel before I ever had my first drink. Some of us are sicker and others, some of us have more to sort out then others. In my case, I had to reach out to outside help as I dealt with PTSD due to Childhood Abuse which was under full scale repression. One of the losses there was learning to restructure my life after find out that it wasn't what I had beleived it to be. Shaking of the foundation of who I beleived I was and where I came from. like someone previously mentioned I beleive that today due to the willingness to go through the losses, the willingness to face the fears, that I have a deeper ability to feel all feelings from one end of the continuom to the other. At 4 years of sobriety I again had to seek help in the above mentions process. I remember an old timer telling me that I just "wasn't turning it over, giving to God or it would be gone" My reply "you know when I first sobered up I couldn't deal with anything and I turned over everthing and it was gone, since then GOD has brought me to the place of strength, faith, and hope that results in him saying to me you now can deal with this, I give it back to you, trust me." In the years there have been many other losses, a sober marriage (sobriety doesn't ensure sucess), letting go of my kids, deaths of close aa people, moves, and etc... the things that life is made off. What have I done? As someone said before - suit up and show up, meetings, meetings, meetings, long walks, bubble baths, screaming in my car with the windows rolled up, what ever it takes. ** And always remembering that there is no problem so bad that a drink cannot make it worse. ** The pay off to all of this is the ability to feel the other side of the emotional range. The "adds" to life. To sit and watch my son's at the starting block of a swim meet and feel so much love, pride, and gratitude that it brings tears. To have known a love greater than any other so far experienced. To first, hold my babies and and then my grandchild and know that swelling of emotion that there are no words for. To be awed by a sunset or sunrise. To feel the promise of life in a birds song. But most importantly - To sit with another AA member who is in terrible pain and not have to run or try to shut them down because it brings up feelings in me that I don't want to feel. I've faced mine, they don't scare me - I can be there for others, as others were there for me. Today I no longer want to wipe out the most precious gift given to me as human being by GOD as I understand him, and that is the gift of feelings, That's what makes us human. To those currently dealing with losses, remember this to shall pass, to those on a current emotional high remember this to shall pass. AA supports us through all the cycles of life if we let it.


Member: ronnie d
Location: delaware
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 7:16:19 PM

Comments

this is my first time in this room. I have given this a lot of thought and now that I have read all of your comments it really helped me make a decision in my life. Right now I really don't understand all of this but I hope to in the future.


Member: Toddy N.
Location: New Mexico
Date: 4/27/00
Time: 10:25:23 PM

Comments

Wow I can't believe someone wrote in that they were going to kill themself because AA made them feel like a failure. What's going on people? I really feel horrible about that poor person who may or may not be dead right now but is definitely hurting. All of our bickering and name-calling isn't helping a bit. Maybe it makes someone feel good to call others names but it sure isn't feeling too good to me right now. I am double-dipping, sorry. I just had a really tough day and needed a meeting bad, but am too tired to drive to town so I came here hoping to get some good old AA talk. What I'm getting is a lot of good talk and some really depressing shit.(Sorry for that) Read the posts and you'll see that a lot of people are coming here for the first time, or are newly sober and if they're like I was, they're like a sponge, getting all they can of AA. Why do some of you want to give them something to make them feel bad like I do right now and I've got 7 years? Bill W. surely didn't intend for AA to be used as a place for sick people to chew others out and call each other awful names. He meant it(in my opinion) as a place for sick people to come together to get well! PLEASE PLEASE be nice to each other, I know you've got it in you. To the suicide, I hope you're alive and reading this because there are people who care about you. Thanks for letting me write again. If anyone needs one on one sharing, please e-mail me and I'll answer. Thanks again. toddyneill@webtv.net


Member: anonymous
Location:
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 1:23:10 AM

Comments

on two other web sites where there have been people using too much vulgarity and violent speech, investigators have found this to be the work of evil right-wingers trying to disrupt the meetings. it has been decided at these two other sites not to respond to these people.


Member: Karen G.
Location: n.m.
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 1:25:13 AM

Comments

Toddy,you are so right.We are supposed to GROW in AA. Life is full of nasty things,we need to to kind to one another and support each other and be HONESTin a helpful way.To just quite drinking is not enough,there is a thing in the program called spiritual health and emotional sobriety,very important to recovery.the best we can do is pray for the negative ones,they are still living in fear.


Member: Jon H
Location: East Anglia U.K.
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 6:32:44 AM

Comments

Toddy

I am responsible for my feelings and unfortunately "another failure" is responsible for his - not you,not me not AA.


Member: Suzy G.
Location:
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 6:55:46 AM

Comments

Karen excellent topic.I too believe willingness and loss go together. About 10 years ago my Mother died suddenly.Losing someone I loved hurt terribly. I drank in order to ease my pain. I was very angry and stopped believing in God. I am sober now,and have willingly let my higher power back into my life. I now believe my mother died the best way possile, in her sleep,and without pain. I go through the grief process differently now. Thank you


Member: Suzy G.
Location:
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 6:55:54 AM

Comments

Karen excellent topic.I too believe willingness and loss go together. About 10 years ago my Mother died suddenly.Losing someone I loved hurt terribly. I drank in order to ease my pain. I was very angry and stopped believing in God. I am sober now,and have willingly let my higher power back into my life. I now believe my mother died the best way possile, in her sleep,and without pain. I go through the grief process differently now. Thank you


Member: Willie M.
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 7:24:53 AM

Comments

(((Peter T.))) and (((CJ))) Excellent posts!

Thank You.


Member: james hughes
Location:
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 9:46:39 AM

Comments

hello everyone , I am james an alcoholic sober now for 10 months. I have had a slip but managed somehow to pull myself up. I have been to AA meetings in the past, looking back I think I was there for all the wrong reasons. I am still in the long learning curve of sober life and despite my lapse am possitive for my future. I remmember the warm friendly atmosphere of AA and although I no longer attend meetings I still use some of what I learnt. I am only 25 and have always felt like the odd one out. It would be nice to meet someone online to relate to, and exchange e-mail with. I am suffering loss at the moment, my long term partner has left me and this has left a great hole in my life, my higher power seems distant at press. congratulations on another sober day to all. thankyou.


Member: Paul B
Location: Cambridge,Ontario
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 10:20:14 AM

Comments

Hi All

Experiencing loss in sobriety is far to real today for me. Our group lost a member to suicide this week and it has been difficult to accept. Outwardly, this individual seemed fine, inwardly, his soul was tormented. It leads to many questions that will never be answered. It angers me that this disease has claimed another victim, but he was sober, it was the emotionally wreckage he could not be free of.

Please take a moment to say a prayer for Jack B. He was/is one of us. He really tried hard.

God Bless you Jack and I'll miss you.


Member: JT
Location: Oklahoma
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 11:11:21 AM

Comments

hi i'm janice, i am an alcoholic, i never really grieved until i got sober. it was the first time i have ever really felt that much pain. today i am 4 years sober, the pain is still there but today i have the willingness to let it go and give it to God. this program has saved my life and my sanity. it is also people like you with your wonderful strength, hope and recovery , sharing it with me. i feel very blessed today that i have great coping skill today right at my fingertips, each one is a miracle in itself. thanks for sharing and listening.


Member: Karen G.
Location: n.m.
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 11:19:50 AM

Comments

A prayer is being said for Jack B.,but for the grace of God it could be any of us.No one got into AA by pulling themselves up by their boot straps-none of us.I to have know people on the program who have killed themselves and it hurts and hits close to home,and for some of us AA is home,so the loss is felt deeply.Prayers are being said.


Member: CEC H
Location: COWTOWN
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 2:50:05 PM

Comments

On the topic of loss, It's what got me here and it's what keep's me here. The death of a girlfriend got me to the program.While sobering up I met a hell of a nice guy Ray Arise,he had away at looking at things that would have you rotfl in minutes. The difference between the two is regret,Ray knew how I felt about Him, he was the best man at my wedding and my bestfriend.Brenda never knew how I felt because I was afraid to get close.It is A.A.that has helped me get sober then deal with my fears. At 22 months sober I left my ex and two daughters, because I could not stay there and remain sober. At the time I thought my world would end.My ex took the girls and I didn't see them for nine years.My bud Ray helped me thru it. Met a Lady six years ago , married her three years later, Ray was my best-man, He died clean & sober Dec 4 1998, my son was born Dec 26 1998.Quess what we named him.Yes I've lost things in sobrity but I've gained so much more.Another 24 to go.And one for yourself


Member: William H.
Location: Toronto
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 3:47:26 PM

Comments

Hello, my name is William, and this is the first day that I have 'verbally' declared that I am an alcoholic.

Loss...if I don't maintain my sobriety (only 48 hours old), I will loose the relationship with my lover that I cherish most in life right now. I had been off drinking for the first three weeks of 'Lent' [I'm not Catholic, but it seemed like a good excuse to try and give it up for awhile] but fell back to those old ways after declaring "I can do it". Three major blackouts in the last week with the accompanying repulsive behavior [I cant bare to hear the details] - and my lover said he can't take me like that any more.

He is a good and loving man and I know he offers me one more chance. If he does decide to finally leave me, I know that I have to be sober for that event. Without trying to be sober this time, I know that I could not live with the knowledge that I let the best thing to happen to me slip through my fingers because I was a simple drunk. Pray for me and thanks for letting me find you out here in e-space.


Member: Jeremy V.
Location: West
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 5:32:42 PM

Comments

I have lost the best thing that ever happened to me. God put this person in my life and I made a VERY BAD choice. The result has been horrible! What an idiot I am. I can't even get it right sober!


Member: Willie  M.
Location: Sarasota
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 6:33:08 PM

Comments

IS THIS THE "BOO-HOO" GROUP?

ENOUGH OF THIS "LOSSESS" TOPIC!

FOR JESUS CHRIST"S SAKE CAN'T WE TRY SOME "POSITIVE" INPUT FOR A FEW DAYS?


Member: AA
Location: NY
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 7:08:40 PM

Comments

Dear Willie.... The new topic for the week will start on Sunday just as it always has! You will then have the opportunity to continue acting like an ass about whatever topic is chosen then. Have you noticed that the topic still hasn't changed, no matter how big your tantrum is?

Oops, I'm sorry discussion group, I agreed to ignore him too!


Member: Katie Z
Location: San Diego
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 7:22:02 PM

Comments

I am Katie. I thank you for this topic. Loss is a fact of life whether I am drinking or sober. What makes it so different in sobriety is that I can't run and get drunk to numb the emotions that come with such an experience. So for me dealing with loss in sobriety means acknowledging the emotions/feelings and then going through them. That is a tough thing for an alcoholic like me. It was so much better, or so I thought, to just numb myself all up. The problem with doing that is eventually all of those suppressed feelings have to be dealt with one way or another. I am glad to be sober today and dealing with loss more constructively.

Thank you for letting me share on this website.

A small note to Willie M.; Grow up will you! You need a good hard kick in your ass because it is clear that is where you brain resides (what little there is of one)!


Member: Garn Messiah
Location: Calgary
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 8:43:07 PM

Comments

The late Eddy T. would tell the bunch of you to go take a "mental shit"


Member: Ralph W.
Location: Calgary
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 8:51:42 PM

Comments

This is a great site. One of the few places I've located on the net where you'll have been considerate enough to have the sick women grouped just for little old me.


Member: Mike S>
Location: TN
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 10:54:09 PM

Comments

I agree with Katie Z. Loss is part of life. By the grace of god we go on daily. Deal withit say the serenity prayer and move on. Life is great however, sometimes painful.

Hey Garn Messiah what does that mean take a mental shit?

Hey N.Y. 4-28 @ 7:08 don't act like a dick.


Member: LA TONYA S.
Location: INDIANAPOLIS, IN.
Date: 4/28/00
Time: 11:56:30 PM

Comments

Hi all! When I first beame sober, 16 months ago, the very first thing that was told to me was: "everyone in AA is not well". I really did not think much of it but as I became involved in my recovery, I realized that was so true. Take what you want from the program, and leave what you don't. Simple. My serenity is worth everything to me. I refuse to let anyone get into my head. When I find myself on the pity pot, I get up and GET OUT OF MYSELF. God saved my life. I thank god for all the humility and hard times. The promises state that.... "we will not regret the past nor which to close the door on it"... Gratitude. I usted to be full of alot of hot air, lies and plenty of B.S. My life has changed, and it is because god led me to have a moment of sanity in my insanity, and releived me of my alcoholism.((((( darshana A., from the small town, reach out. Together we can walk a little slower, but we can make it. contact me via: blueeyest473849@aol.com ANYTIME!!!! (((( Thank's to all who have welcomed me to the coffee pot(((((HUG'S TO ALL, ANOTHER 24 HOUR'S!!!


Member: Gassy B.
Location: Rodney Dangerfield House
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 12:47:39 AM

Comments

Hey Garn Messiah...Would a mental fart do? One that REVERBERATES through faggy's walls?


Member: Eva P.
Location: Dana Point, CA.
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 1:02:01 AM

Comments

To Ralph W. On behalf of all us "sick" women, thank you for sharing. I've heard that like attracts like, so you must feel right at home. All men like you want is someone to feel superior to, so if that is what it takes for you to get off, I would suggest trying the porn sites, although I am sure you are all too familiar with them.


Member: Garn Messiah
Location: Calgary
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 1:43:49 AM

Comments

hey Gassy at rodney's place:

that fart just better be at least 120 db.


Member: GIDEON S
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 3:25:36 AM

Comments

Hello, My name is Gideon, and I'm a wineo-junkie. This is a very weird AA meeting but I guess it works for me if you weed out the garbage. Kind of like a real meeting. Loses are a part of life we all have to deal with. Some deal better than others. Alcohol doesn't help one darn bit and only makes matters worse. I took me a ago time to get over a divorce. Two years stuck in a vodka bottle, self destruct mode, hanging around drug dealers, strippers and hookers is no way to get over your problems get anywhere in life (besides the hospital,jail or dead) and I did them all but the last. I was a broken shell of a man w/ no will to live or concern for anybody else. Only where my next dollar, jug or high was going to come from. And I blamed all this on my loses. My ex, my job I lost dada dada...give me a break. I heard a good one at an AA meeting. I didn't lose anything. I traded it for booze. I had a choice my wife and kids, job, car, house and all that stuff or alcohol and drugs. Booze and drugs were more important to me that my family and all that came with it. So I didn't lose my wife, I traded it for booze. And I drank even more over it. I was a professional drunk. Couldn't hold a job or go threw a day w/o a drink. Couldn't even imagine life w/o alcohol. Boy I was a sick, degenerate discusting puppy. Glad I got help, locked up and sober, ran out of recoveries. Four years clean and sober now. But as far as real personal loses like loved one, family and friends, my heart goes out to you and only time can mend a broken heart. That's where God comes in, packing bags of faith, hope and courage. I know people start to cringe when they start hearing about God but it's what the program is based on. I need not say more to scareoff any newcomebers. Remember what John Lennon said. "life is what happens to you while your making other plans" and look what happened to him. Life doesn't always go the way we want it but everything does happen for a reason. Hope you have a reason not to drink today and I hope that reason is you. Your worth it, God doesn't make junk.


Member: Vince H
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 5:15:00 AM

Comments

Hi everybody, my name is vince and i am an alcoholic. This is incredible! o O ((big hugs to all)) Thank you to the techs and everyone that is responsible for getting and keeping AA on-line. I wish that Bill W and Dr Bob were alive to see this. The first thing that i noticed when i started typing was that there it is in black & white: i am an alcoholic - it makes it real. a while back, some 24hrs ago, i now remember having to write that in treatment. well, as you can tell by now, i'm a "first-timer" to this site. Thank you Karen for the "loss topic". I had lost everything prior to coming to AA and my sponser had always said to me to keep me grateful, "just think how grateful you would be if you lost everything and it was all given back to you. i have everything back 10 fold and i can enjoy it because i'm sober. i was 5 yrs sober when my dad died. i had all the feelings associated with this: intense sadness, anger, guilt, depression and all of this was intensified to the point of not being able to take it. i sought outside help and practically lived in the rooms. then the grief process kicked in and it got better, then worse, and so on. but i made it through and then 15 months later my stepmother (the widow) of 15 yrs commited suicide. i kept telling myself, "it's all a process". and i made it through all that. nobody said that it was going to be easy and it wasn't. and then in 1998 my sponsor of 11 yrs died of cancer - that was a tough one, but i was conditioned from the previous deaths. i was closer to my sponser than i was to my parents for he knew me better than my parents. i still really miss him and i feel as though he's looking over my shoulder and checking this out. everyone's life has losses: loved ones,wives,jobs,money,cars,and so on. For me, it's just the softer & easier way to deal with it cold sober. Thank You.


Member: Sammy K. New York
Location: yuh! the BIG APPLE!
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 6:44:36 AM

Comments

WELL, I SEE THE "CRYBABIES" ARE STILL IN HERE!

BOO-HOO......SNIff......SNIFF.....BOO-HOO

CRY......CRY.......and.......CRY SOMEMORE???

WHEN WILL IT END?

THANKS KAREN FOR DEPRESSING US FOR AN ENTIRE SEVEN DAYS! YES! LOSSESS ARE A REALITY....but, MUST WE DISCUSS IT TO DEATH?

A WHOLE WEEK OF CRYING? BOO-FUKIN-HOO!

YOU SUCK karen!

LIFE is good! AA saved my life! i feel grateful! ENOUGH cryin' for christalllmighty sakes! GROW THE fuckUP! BUNCH of babies.

HOW do i deal with lossess....boo-hoo??? HOW? HOW INDEED.....YOU greive....you hurt...you cry...you feel sad....you feel-the-feelings....then move-the-fuck-on!

What your really looking for is a way to AVOID the feelings isn't it KAREN?!?! BE HONEST karen....you are looking for a SECRET?! A shortcut ...to avoid the pain? THERE ISN'T ANY! grow up! DEAL with it!

BULLETIN for karen: THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!


Member: Sammy K.
Location: NY
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 6:52:05 AM

Comments

KAREN......the secret is..........THERE AIN'T NO SECRET! WE ARE ALL "control-freaks". That is why we ran to alcohol....drugs.....etc. An attempt to control (not feel ) our feelings....people ..and ....whatever else.

We may be sober.....but,we are still trying to control our feelings. That is why KAREN is trying to find a secret....a way to avoid painful feelings.Again,there is NO secret. FEEL the loss.....feel the sadness...FEEL!

Alkies hate that word.....FEEL! Control is our preferred mode. GET OVER IT!

TRY TO BEGIN TO FEEL. Is it scary? You bet your ass it is! Tough shit!


Member: PeterJ M
Location: Queensland Australia
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 6:55:15 AM

Comments

G'day all. My name is Peter and I am an alcoholic. What a great subject. I have in recent years lost my best mate (sponsor of 11 years, both parents, a sister last year to alcoholism and I am about to throw in a career primarily because it has taken more from me than I was able to give and at the end of the day I finally accepted several things. One the pain of remaining far outweighs the loss and most importantly whatever peace of mind and serenity that I have been fortunate enough to gain over the years has been severely threatened and nothing is worth the pain of drinking. I perhaps would like to describe feelings when sponsor died suddenly and totally un expectadly.... I ranted and raved and carried on like a two headed chook for a while which included abusing the bejeepers out my God as I understand him somewhere along the way God appeared to give me an answer or something anyway where I came to believe that God needed him much more than I and had certain plans for him. I am comforted by that and it is all that matters. Similarly with my sister. I didn't ever have to like same just try and accept which is something I had never been able to do.Leaving my employment was causing considerable emotional conflict and pain. Again however I have made a decision which was not easy and have implemented same. I dont have to like and etc. but I will accept All I now have to do is endeavour to find employment Staying sober can be a big challenge but then again it is proving a darn side easier than surviving whilst drinking. Life and living can be difficult!! & presents far greater and more rewarding challenges than drinking ever did Living sober allows me to try and make /implement informed decisions and remember doing same what a bonus. Take care all and thank you for being here for me. Like at least one of the others this is my very first visit and my gratitude cannot be expressed.

Peter


Member: Granny S.
Location: Marthasvineyard
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 8:46:38 AM

Comments

My name is Granny and I am an alcoholic who is very grateful that the 30 years I was active weren't any worse than they were. They were devastating enough for me to finally accept that this is where I belong. It was a relief to know that I was one of a group of thousands and thousands of people worldwide who had this disease recognized as such by the medical community...this soul sickness which affected my attitude and therefore every aspect of my life. Although I haven't had a drink or drug in 27 years ...after being active 30 years...my attitude needs daily maintenance and I now understand the value of One Day At A Time. The pain of loss sometimes has to be gotten through sometimes one hour at a time! At my age there are more and more losses, of course. I like the saying "Pain is inevitable..Suffering is optional" So much really good stuff has been said here. Thanks for the topic Karen. Please don't leave now that I have just come online and discovered this site! I can't get over being able to receive the thoughts of our brothers and sisters in the program from Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Canada, Hong Kong, Finland ...the world!! I really want to know what they feel and think. This is certainly an example of THE END OF ISOLATION thru AA. Thank you everyone. Life is good. And never ever boring!!


Member: Dean
Location:
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 9:39:05 AM

Comments

Sammy K alias Willie M; Just 4 little words for you!

SHUT THE F___ UP!


Member: Tom
Location: Md
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 9:50:40 AM

Comments

Hey! I'm Tom, alkie and druggie. Great topic Karen. Like many others I've read, I experienced quite a lot of losses when I was active, but it seemed like as soon as I sobered up, my HP wanted to see what I was made of. At six months sober the factory where I had been working for quite some time shut down, forcing me to sell my house (which I'd just bought), and leave everything I'd known and re-locate to feed my family.

At 6 yrs sober I lost my mother to a long battle with cancer. Then watched my father lose his mind and lose everything he and my mother ever worked for. Then at 8 yrs sober, watched him die a long and painful death to cancer. These things along with the normal day to day losses that we in recovery seem to have such a hard time handling anyway have made my journey quite an interesting one! Don't know all the answers but I do know that going back out is not an option! Hang in there Karen, life may not get any better or easier, but thorugh working the program and trusting your HP, it can actually be kind of enjoyable. Have a great 24!


Member: Gillette E.
Location: Oakland CA
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 10:37:52 AM

Comments

My name is Gillette and I am an alcoholic. Thanks to everyone who has shared from the heart on this topic of loss. Before I came into AA at the age of 39, I had only cried twice since age 6. I found out that I had to learn to cry if I was going to stay sober. Over the years I have watched many people who were OK with loss, who could not cry, go back to drinking. Some are dead today, others have crawled back into the program. We have a saying that you have to save your ass and not your face. Trying to look good during losses is not helpful and not necessary. When I was going through a divorce six years ago, I was told by someone who had never been divorced that I could get through it without drinking and without going crazy. But others who had been through divorces sober said, just don't drink, going crazy is allowed. I didn't drink and I didn't go entirely crazy but I had panic attacks and thoughts of suicide and I talked about it in meetings. Many people could identify as I too can today. Just yesterday I heard a women talk about thoughts of suicide in a meeting and I knew she was going to be ok. Recently I watched a newcomer insist that she was fine with her husband divorcing her and today she is drinking again. I have had other losses. Loss of career in sobriety. But most losses have turned out to be opportunities. The divorce lead to a better marriage now and the loss of one career has lead to a better career. One door closes and another opens but it is hell in the hallway. Now we have a brand new baby and I am experiencing the loss of freedom to go to meetings I used to casually go to. That has created an opportunity to participate in cyber meetings. But still it is a loss and I will meet with my sponsor tomorrow and talk it over with him. Thanks to everyone who has participated in this meeting. It has helped me stay sober one more day.


Member: Gycia
Location: San Francisco, CA
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 1:53:25 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Gycia and i have finally admitted that i am an alcoholic. On the lost topic i am losing my family, my friends, and my self. I have been in therapy for two months thinking that since i was dealing with my depression and stuffed feelings that it was alright to come home and have a drink afterwards, but its not. i am at the point (being sober for two days) that i know i can not do this on my own and need support from such groups as AA. Thank you for listening to my issues and i know that i can do this. My family is worth the world to me and i am beginning to believe that i am the world to me. i don't want to live thsi way any more.


Member: Gary H.
Location: Columbus,Oh
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 7:03:13 PM

Comments

Hey everyone. I'm Gary/alky. I agree with taking our pains/troubles to God. I also have learned that right now for me, if He released me from these I probably wouldn't spend as much time with Him. Knowing myself, if everything was going well I might miss out on learning to trust Him.

I hope this makes sense;17 days sober;thanks for the page.


Member: Dave B.
Location: Sarnia,Ont Canada
Date: 4/29/00
Time: 7:53:19 PM

Comments

Iknow you are not suppose to post more than once a week but I have been surfing this site since monday an am sad to say I am sadden by the lack of compassion.What about the newcomer that this site is there first contact with AA this kind of stuff will sened them packing>dont get me wrong I believe totally in that we have to share are feelings and thoughts but we are also suppose to have become better people.if any new comer(or anyone )with ICQ wants to chat email me at boudyd@hotmail.com

LOL DAVEB