Member: Bob T
Location: Ontario
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 2:20:25 PM

Comments

Wow! I didn't expect to be numero uno. My name is Bob and i am an alcoholic. The topic I have chosen has heated up f2f meetings in my area. Some people have very passionate views on recovering alcoholics and perscription meds. Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti-psychotic, whatever the pill may be. Personally, I know my life would not be the same if it wasn't for the outside treatment I received when I was sobering up. I am still on some of these pills today, and I feel that they are helping to hold me together in my earily stages of soberiety. I would love to hear other stories, good or bad.


Member: Mo8
Location: Alaska
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 2:28:48 PM

Comments

Gerri and alcoholic here, Bottoms, acceptance, pity pots, losses, anger,what-the-hecks the topic??? Just when I was getting all pumped about writting about my bottom , the topic changed. I really hate thinking about my last big drunk. So much pain involved, but if we forget the past " history repeats itself".It is a wrenching topic to face what brought some of us to the point of reaching out for help, for something other than booze.I'm going to condense my story because I really need to share it... My bottom came when I went into a bar for that ONE Alaskan beer. I "knew" it would only be one becuse I only had enough cash for just one. My alcoholic mind knew I'd probably get someone to take pity on me to buy me more. Thats just what happened ...I went to the bar for "one" and woke up the next morning in a detox hospital after getting picked-up hiding next to a garbage can at 3:30 in the morning .My purse was packed full with cans of cheap beer which I stole from a guy who assaulted me.The frightening part was I couldn't remember the assault.So for my peace of mind I agreed to a Rape exam...listen girls: its a 3hr. gruelling experience. Thank God it was all neg. but they couldn't tell me what happened ,and I couldnt remember anything during my blackout. I have been faithful to my dear husband of 27 yrs. and have 8 children.This was somthing I could have avoided, but because of the insanity of alcohol... I now have 8 and a half mos. sober, my life is unrecognisable to the way it was. I love the wonderful change! I love my sobriety!


Member: Mom '0 8
Location: Alaska
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 2:40:03 PM

Comments

Bob T. Sorry just as I posted; the pg. and topic changed. I think your topic should be discussed and I will look forward to reading other comments on this issue. I am currently on an antideppressnt. It saved me from being suicidal after the umtimely death of my 22 yr. old daughter. I take them because I have a chemical imbalance NOT to replace alcohol. They keep me "level".


Member: BJ
Location: OR
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 2:52:18 PM

Comments

BJ here, alcoholic. I went to a clinic to dry out once and they used drugs during the 3 days people were there. However, they weaned you off of them before you were discharged. The rationale was that they didn't want people substituting one addiction for another. Alcoholics and addicts have an addictive personality and are very prone to become addicted to various types of pills. Doctors don't help much as they are prone to over-prescribe many drugs. Following surgery, I was prescribed pain pills when I left the hospital. In the first 2-3 weeks they were really necessary because of the pain. However, I got so I continued to take them even when the pain was gone. I finally had to ask the doctor to discontinue prescribing them as I was becoming addicted.

In conclusion, I believe drugs have their place even for an alcoholic. However, there are many non-narcotic versions out there and I would recommend that a person ask their doctor about them rather than blindly accepting a narcotic prescription from the doctor. Also make sure the doctor knows you are a recovering alcoholic or addict. Sometimes this makes them more careful about what they prescribe.


Member: Shelli
Location: N.CA
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 3:20:06 PM

Comments

Hi Shelli here, recovering alcholic. The topic appears to be should one or should one not use prescribed drugs whilst attempting to get sober? Hum good question, Personally I never have, but then I'm a glutton for punishment and maybe if I had I could have saved myself some where and tear, a few of my friends in recovery do use anit-depressents and various other things but so far I have not seen that it helps them much some have even gotton worse, I once read that a good shrink won't even see a recovering alchie until he has at least 2 years sober, due to the fact he cannot distinguish beteen a mental abnormality and the difuntion brought on by alchol. I had enough trouble figuring out what was real and not real when I first got sober so I opted to stay clear of all drugs until my mind could function by itself, but others have done so much damage to there brains from drinking that they really do need help because there brains will never function properaly again. So as far as I am concerened each person must decide for himself, and then be able to not only live with that decision but also truely believe in it because others will try to presuade them differently. And then there are the drugs the good old doc. gives you for things like illness, injuries and surgery, I guess bottom line are you in it for recovery using such drugs as tools to achieve a drug free way of life or are you in it because it is just another way to change or alter your mind and feelings. We usually feel bad for a reason and if we are capabele identifing that reason then we have something to work with, but if we are simply trying to run away once again from our feelings aren't we simply replacing our alchol with some other quick fix. What is sobriety anyway. For me its not just not drinking, Look at HALT, Hungry, angry, lonley and tired. Maybe your problems lay here. Maybe working on these thing might help with the depression. Maybe working with others, maybe doing a 4th and 5th step, how about reading about other alchies in the big book, got a sponso? A teli. list? More me I would do everything in my power first before turning to meds and a medicated way of life, Sobriety is much more interesting. But like I said to each his own. Hang in there. One day at a time. LOL SS


Member: Susan S.
Location: Delaware
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 3:26:03 PM

Comments

Susan here ,gratefully recovering alcoholic. This is a touchy subject and I bet you have had some heated up meetings over it,Bob.I am not on prescribed meds fortunately but I have seen some who need to be.Alcoholics can also be bi-polar,manic -depressive...whatever the case may be,chemically unbalanced and the Big Book tells us many may need outside help.The point is in recovery we get help as needed ,when needed. A fellow in my homegroup has been on lithium(prescribed by the doctor) and as a result of listening to someone in our immediate fellowship, as opposed to listening to the doctor,he stopped taking his meds.This someone told him drugs were not acceptable in A.A.,and all that anyones needs is to work the 12 steps.If you work the 12 steps ,you don't need the drugs...is what he was told.I really believe he was looking for an excuse ,as well, to stop taking his meds,the way an alcoholic will look for an excuse to drink or an addict to use. The results of him not taking his meds.....he ended up in the mental health unit and could not determine fantasy for reality...there is a name for this which escapes me at the moment. The point is we are many and varied...and some of us do need outside help and meds as prescribed.That doesn't make anyone any less sober from anyone else.We are responsible to ourselves...and this talk at meetings about prescribed drugs from those that feel they are not needed is actually what is not needed.We never know how what we share is going to affect someone out there.I was told to always be honest in sharing...and if its not part of my experience,keep my mouth shut.I can not transmit something I haven't got and today,just for today,I am making sure my house in order and that my relationship with Him is right. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Ben M
Location:
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 3:41:54 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Ben, I'm an alcoholic. First time here, and happy to have a place to share.

When the alcohol left my blood, the depression kicked in. I didn't go to doctors, and I worked the program, and I didn't do any drugs. And while I might have been getting better, it sure didn't feel like it. After about 4 years of sobriety w/depression, I went to a doc, and started to take anti-depressants. The world didn't shake, I didn't get well overnite. I kept going to meetings, and after a few years stopped taking the meds. I now share sometimes in meetings about my experiences with depression, and I find it's a common topic. There's a lot of alcoholics in the meetings who have suffered the illness.

Point is, I don't use the drugs anymore. Don't feel I need to, because I've found a way of living that allows me to deal with my problems in a manner that works. At the same time, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that sometimes the lows feel too low. Still..... Sobriety without anti-depressants is enough for me today.

Thanks for letting me share. Happy to be sober. Ben


Member: Pauline M
Location: MA
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 4:30:17 PM

Comments

Hi. I'm Pauline, an alcoholic. Good topic Bob because I've been at meetings where this has also been a heated topic. Some people are adamantly against them and others feel they are sometimes necessary. I've taken prescription pain medications myself in the past few years; twice, for major surgeries and a couple of times for major dental work (dental implants). I used them as I needed. Once aspirin was able to alleviate any discomfort I had, I discontinued the medications and threw any remaining pills away. I have a high tolerance for pain, but this alcoholic feels, for herself, that if you are able to deal with the pain medications responsibly then you should use them. My physician is aware I am an alcoholic and prescribes accordingly.

I feel, personally, the decision should be discussed with your doctor and your sponsor--they are the only people who need to know and you shouldn't feel obligated to share it at a meeting. You're being honest with the people who have a need to know.

Thanks for letting me share


Member: paddy e
Location: Kilkenny  Ireland
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 4:54:08 PM

Comments


Member: paddy e
Location: Kilkenny  Ireland
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 5:04:21 PM

Comments

I think that if medication is prescribed by your physician than it is essential to take that prescription. I knew someone that was put off taking his medication for manic depression by someone at a meeting, He drank and he never got back. I think that the only medication we should avoid is the one that we kid ourselves into taking.


Member: Joe R
Location:
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 5:42:05 PM

Comments

Hey Cyber Techs....YOU SUCK! We already picked a new topic this morning because you guys can't get your act together enough to update this site on time. AND THEN YOU JUST DELETE WHAT THE NEW SUBJECT WAS! The topic was about losses and several people already shared their ES&H about it and YOU GUYS JUST IGNORED IT AND WIPED IT COMPLETELY OUT! Sorry, Bob T but you were not the first here and those who shared about their losses, thanks for the little input I was able to read. I won't be coming back here again....since it seems like the Cyber Techs are the ones who really have control over what we discuss here.

Adios!


Member: Barbara
Location:
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 5:46:43 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Barbara and I'm an alcoholic. Manic depresion runs in my family, and while I never got manic, I finally admitted I was depressed (thanks to afriend who suggested it.) I take an antidepressant daily, and while it doesn't make me feel"happy", I am no longer questioning existence and feeling like I'm in a black pit. I still get bad moods(PMS) but I know they'll pass . I sometimes think depression and alcoholism may be a which came first? the chicken or the egg question for some people. Of course alcohol didn't help any-depressing me right out of consciousness. Well, I probably thought that was "help". Through the grace of God and AA I'm here and considering my family history-I know there's a place for drugs.My niece doesn't want to be medicated though she is definitely diagnosed manic depressive, She's currently in the hospital after a failed suicide attempt. Her second attempt.


Member: someone
Location: somewhere
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 6:01:10 PM

Comments

don't cry Joe R.


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 6:18:18 PM

Comments

Hi I am Stan and alcoholic. Joe R. you are correct. I saw your post this morning and just got home from work and wanted to share my ES&H about loss. Then I come on here and it is gone. Well, not for me and I will talk about it so I hope you will come back. Just a quick note to (Someone from somewhere) please STOP being so antagonistic. Obviously Joe needs to hear about that subject and I can say first hand that I know how frustrating it is to get started on a discussion that I need input on only to have it wiped out. You need to get some compassion whoever you are!!

Loss for me was not a huge thing when I drank. I would like to say that I reached this huge bottom after losing everything in my life and then I got sober. But my loss was not that way at all. I got sober and then lost a lot. Many of my losses have come as a result of difficult decisions I have had to make in my new sober life. An example is the end of my marriage. It had gotten to the point where I was going to go out and get drunk if I continued to play the merry martyr and stay in that sick relationship. It took me years to finally get up the courage and strength to do it but thank God I did. I also lost my job of many years and at first thought "what the hell is this? I have worked my butt off to stay sober and be a good person and I loose my job?" Well, to make this very long story short it was a blessing in disguise after all. All of these losses have taught me very good lessons and I am grateful to have experience them.

Now, do I like going through them? NO WAY! But somewhere along the line I eventually see where they have led me to good things. I am currently in a wonderful relationship with a wonderful lady (who is also sober). I have a great new job (doesn't pay as much) but who cares, I am happy. And that, Joe R, is the bottom line of all of it. To be happy! So please do not leave this site because of a few inconsiderate people. If you want to talk a little more on the subject you can e-mail me and we can talk there.

Thanks for letting me come back and share with you all.

Stanb2001@aol.com


Member: Robin A
Location: NY
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 6:46:52 PM

Comments

Hi, I'm Robin and an alcoholic. I had to take an anti depresent for a short time after I first came in.I believe it's between you and your doctor. I also think its like estrogin,my body doesn't produce it so I have to get it some where else. Some things you can't "live" without.This is my first time on and I seethere was a problem. I'm thimking Acceptance! Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Dennis P.
Location: Florida
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 7:37:14 PM

Comments

My name is Dennis and I am an alcoholic. I've been sober for almost 17 yrs. Three yrs. ago my life was a mess due to chemical in-balance and major depression. I was hospitalized for a week. Although I had been sober, going to meetings, talking with my sponsor, all the things I was suppose to be doing, something wasn't right. I had additional problems. Thanks to both the fellowship of AA and the medication I'm on I live a totally different life. I was concerned that the medication (Prozac) would interfere with my recovery. Actually, it has helped in my recovery. This is a touchy topic with alot of recovering people. In the book, Living Sober, page 53 gives more information on this subject. Best of luck to you Bob.


Member: Melanie
Location: Washington
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 7:44:48 PM

Comments

Just to put my two cents in on the prescription meds topic: any topic that has a tendency to become "heated" is, by its nature, a very individual and personal one, otherwise people wouldn't get so worked up about it! To me, that means that like any other personal issue, I can say: based on my OWN experience/feelings/etc, I do or don't feel it would be right for ME to do such and such.

There are a gazillion things out there that I can become addicted to or misuse or abuse. Do I have to completely avoid them all or be paranoid of them because by being an alcoholic I have an addictive personality? Or because itís ďpossibleĒ that they could endanger my sobriety just because look what happened to Joe Schmo or Sally So-and-So? Uh oh, have to quit having sex or Iím going to end up in Sex Addicts Anonymous. Nope, canít buy that weekly lottery ticket or go to that bingo game anymore or Iím going to end up a gambling addict. Have to watch my eating habits or Iím going to end up anorexic or bulimic. Canít play on the Internet anymore or Iím going to end up addicted.

I guess Iím trying to say - if itís something I havenít experienced problems with in the past why would I have to completely avoid it now? Especially something like prescription drugs - if Iím in a situation where I have to consider whether or not to take RX drugs, obviously my mental or physical health is in a bad state. Itís not like Iím going, ďwow I would really love to get loaded like I used to every Saturday night with my friends at the bar - hmmm, think Iíll go ask the doc for some pills.Ē

Anyway. Thanks for letting me talk.


Member: Melanie
Location: Washington
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 7:44:59 PM

Comments

Just to put my two cents in on the prescription meds topic: any topic that has a tendency to become "heated" is, by its nature, a very individual and personal one, otherwise people wouldn't get so worked up about it! To me, that means that like any other personal issue, I can say: based on my OWN experience/feelings/etc, I do or don't feel it would be right for ME to do such and such.

There are a gazillion things out there that I can become addicted to or misuse or abuse. Do I have to completely avoid them all or be paranoid of them because by being an alcoholic I have an addictive personality? Or because itís ďpossibleĒ that they could endanger my sobriety just because look what happened to Joe Schmo or Sally So-and-So? Uh oh, have to quit having sex or Iím going to end up in Sex Addicts Anonymous. Nope, canít buy that weekly lottery ticket or go to that bingo game anymore or Iím going to end up a gambling addict. Have to watch my eating habits or Iím going to end up anorexic or bulimic. Canít play on the Internet anymore or Iím going to end up addicted.

I guess Iím trying to say - if itís something I havenít experienced problems with in the past why would I have to completely avoid it now? Especially something like prescription drugs - if Iím in a situation where I have to consider whether or not to take RX drugs, obviously my mental or physical health is in a bad state. Itís not like Iím going, ďwow I would really love to get loaded like I used to every Saturday night with my friends at the bar - hmmm, think Iíll go ask the doc for some pills.Ē

Anyway. Thanks for letting me talk.


Member: Kelly
Location: NY
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 8:09:27 PM

Comments

Hi, Kelly alcoholic here - WOW some great posts here! I personally have to say that - drinking was one of my major (if not the one) reasons for trying suicide and I spent time in a facility and they gave me paxil. Fourteen months later I continue to take the drug and while I can't say that I can't live without it - I can say that I do notice a BIG difference when I don't take it for a few days. My attitude and thoughts take a big dip down and it's at those times that I think about drinking! So, whether it's what people think is good or bad can't be my main objective - what makes me sane and sober is my objective! I hope this info helps someone - it certainly has helped me! Thanks for letting me share! Love, Kelly


Member: Connie N
Location: Minnesota
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 8:43:56 PM

Comments

Wow. I've been coming to this website for about a month and a half...and am surprised at times at the anger and "backbiting" I see on occasion. I'm sorry, Joe R---Your topic would have been great...and I mean that. Lord knows every alcoholic suffers a lot of losses. Is there a way to contact the "cyber techs" directly? As it is (circumstances being what they are), it's like being in the car with my husband when he yells at the other drivers...it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings but mine because I'm the only one there to hear it!!! Likewise, the cybertechs hear your complaint but so do a lot of us looking for a little support tonight... Generally, you folks are all pretty nice...but man every once in a while one sure gets out of hand (tonyadaduck are you out there?)! :-)

Call me naive and Minnesotan, butlet's be nice, OK? I'd hate for a newcomer to be driven away by yet another negative thing in their life. Thanks for listening, and God Bless. Happy 24!!! ^j^

Connie

PS No comments on the med's---three of the four women in my family are on antidepressants but I'm still holding my own--thank God.


Member: Sarah B
Location: Boise
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 9:23:30 PM

Comments

For God sakes people we are alcoholic and have absolutely no business dishing out advice about depression or any other medical condition outside of own alcoholism. AA is not a cure all for every frigging diorder or disease that people have. It is surely scary to think that this program has evolved into a catch all program for every disorder imaginable. It is completely out of line for anyone on this site to be dishing out medical advice when it comes to taking medications prescribed by a Dr. Who the hell do any of you think you are giving out advice that could potentially kill someone? AA is about alcoholism and everything that goes with that. NOT a forum for dispensing medical advice to ANYONE. God help any of you if your advice causes harm to someone else.

I am with you Joe R., I will not return here again. Stanley B., you seem to be the only one on here who has anything of real substance to share. Thank you for your post and to those out there seeking assistance with their alcholism, this website is not the answer. But a real AA face to face meeting is!


Member: Dave D.
Location: Calgary Ab.
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 9:29:38 PM

Comments

Dave here i'm an alcoholic and on the subject of meds I feel that if they are deemed necessary by an M.D.their use may be good.I feel the attitude that meds shouldn't be used reeks of the old bad stinking thinking that I am omnipotent and if you do what I tell you everything will turn out ok.But you know where that got me and if you are being honest with yourself you may see where our superiority complex is still alive and struggling to take control over our higher power so if I may suggest light up let go and let god deal with it cause we haven't done a very good job trying to control our own lives or recovery without help.I've been sober for 13 months and 2 days and I don't try to tell other's what is right or wrong because I'm only human and make mistakes.


Member: Fed Up
Location: with the Cyber Idiots
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 10:06:11 PM

Comments

Connie N. stop defending those cyber tech idiots! They pull that stunt all the time. And lastly if you don't like hearing someone yell at them "Don't read it." You are not in the car with your husband. You are here and you do have a choice not to read it. Sarah from Boise you go girl!!!! You are right on about these people on this site. They play God here all the time but lets see how many of um take responsibility when someone commits suicide after NOT taking their meds because they told um it was not good for their sobriety...My bet is not a one of um will take any responsibility....This site and all you people, including the idiot cyber techs are a far cry from any meeting I ever attended.


Member: JCP   ^\^
Location: Penn's Woods
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 10:45:12 PM

Comments

ďIt would be a product of false pride to claim that A.A. is a cure-all, even for alcoholism.ĒóAs Bill Sees It, p. 285.

J here, a grateful Alcoholic, and A.A. is definitely not a medical source, Bob T, but for me it has been a cure for a lot of related things.

It would be different from any meeting I ever attended if some one zeroed in on somebody elseís medical condition, although a few perhaps overly enthusiastic sponsors or 12th-steppers have become upset when prospects ďwent on something,Ē and perhaps they might project it on others.

Even doctors among us, or perhaps especially doctors among us, have always in my experience been quite careful not to ďpracticeĒ in meetings. I doubt that Bill would agree that other medicine is necessary to get sober, although it might be needed for its own problems. Our SHARED problem is not to take the first drink.

You realize I know zilch about medicine, so this is not worth much, but I do know first-hand that one guy with practically no faith, managed to end seven years of daily drinking with only the Higher Power of A.A. to thank. In fact, I AM that one.

Keep Coming Back.


Member: Coleen
Location: MN
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 10:59:55 PM

Comments

I've only been coming here for about 3 weeks, and am a relative newcomer to the idea of my being an alcoholic. I pull up this site for the stories--and the advice I take with a grain of salt. Nobody's trying to tell anybody what to do; they're just sharing their personal experiences on these topics. Anyone who cannot tell the difference between a shared experience and advice ought to beware when reading these posts. It's your choice whether to come back or not; if I am turned off by the turn the week's discussion has taken, I can choose not to return until a new topic takes its place. I resent the comments insinuating that the people supporting this web site have their own personal agenda; the world is not "out to get us" and they are trying their best to be supportive and helpful to those who aren't able to get to a F2F meeting every night of their choosing; for those of us with children at home, that's not even an option most nights. I am thankful for this website--and I don't depend on it alone; there are many good resources out there for those who are looking. Don't think this is the only website that suffers abuse by its users. Bottom line, read the stories, share the experience. Get input from others sources. You can make the educated decision. If it's the wrong one, you have no one to blame but yourself--and you can learn from the experience.

As far at the antidepressants go--it's a God-send for some people, and does nothing for others. It's not a blanket cure. Nothing is. And no web-site will serve all needs for anyone...F2F communication is good, writing is good, studying is good. And if you put it all together, you have a good game-plan to succeed at sobriety.

Peace--it can start with you.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Paul B
Location: Kirkland WA
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 11:09:07 PM

Comments

Please pause for a moment to reflect on the reasons why we are here.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

My name is Paul and I am an alcoholic. I find the discord disheartening and of no value to me a recovering alcoholic. I stick around be cause I need this program or else, I will be back out there.

I checked in tonight in an attempt to deter my depression. However, I have also, finally, made an appointment to talk to someone about it. I have to accept the things I cannot change and have the courage to change things I can. Being sober doesn't mean we have to suffer. We are alcoholics, not martyrs.

If I need help after working the program to the best of my ability, I have to have the courage to ask for it. I have to do what is necessary to take care of myself and trust God will grant me the wisdom to know the difference.

The last time I needed pain medications, I had my roommate act as a gatekeeper just in case I felt like taking one to many. I found out my program was solid and the fears were unfounded. I never craved the narcotics and took them only when necessary. As soon as motrin was suffecient, I was able to get off the narcotics.

I had learned to know the difference. It works if we work it. Good topic. Thanks for letting me share.

In love and service.


Member: Pete E
Location: Buffalo,
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 11:36:06 PM

Comments


Member: Pete E
Location: Buffalo,
Date: 3/28/00
Time: 11:53:34 PM

Comments

Pete, alcoholic,

I've been away from this site for awhile, and it is good to be back. Aside from cyber-issues, there's nothing on here that I've never seen or heard at a f2f. The med stuff is a tough one though. I identify with JCP^\^ as usual and am glad to see his es&h here. I also did not take anything and in my stoty, hindsight is not 20/20. If any of the people in my life during the first six months or so knew of my flirtations with suicide, there would have definately been some sort of intervention. Although the experience was really lousey at times, the support of the fellowship and that "flimsey reed" I had at last become open to,I now have something of value to share with a new guy who can't figure out why he feels as he does. Alcoholism may not be all of it for him, but that's not for me to decide.

Thanks. Keep the faith

Pete


Member: Shelli
Location: N.CA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:33:25 AM

Comments

Hi Shelli here alcholic, sorry to post again but feeling like drinking, attended my friends funeral today, just prior to work, have been crying on and off all day, was unaware that the origanal topic was on loss, funny how this thing works I always hear what I need to when I need it, I don't like funerals, this was my first, casket and all, and hopefully my last. It all feels so unreal at the moment, tomorrow is another chemo and the death of all my b cells, another injection and more more frustration. I just have to focus on keeping a clear perspective on what my purpose is and what the outcome I'm looking for is. Funny thing is though I just keep coming back to step one, and no matter how long I'm here that step always helps me remember what I am. LOL SS


Member: Chuck M
Location: Alberta
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 4:01:08 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic. I try to go by the progam found in the Big Book. For the life of me I can't think of which step authorizes me to give medical advice, or any advice. If I do then I am still playing God according to page62 and I am supposed to get over it. I try.

Peace and Serenity


Member: tonydaduck
Location: USA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 5:44:44 AM

Comments

(((Melanie))) Your post,in my opinion, is the most sensible one in here. It has been my experience not to take any medications(except for surgery) in all my very fortunite twenty-five years of sobriety......yet!One day i may need to do so.......until then, i refrain from judging others who may need to take medications. It is their personal business if they decide to take medications....period. Please read (((Melanie's))) post,she says it best!


Member: Tom S
Location: Holt, Michigan
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 8:17:42 AM

Comments

Hi. My name is Tom and I am an alcoholic. I have taken prozac for depresdsion for three years and do not understand why anyone in AA would even think of making this a topic of discussion. My alcoholism is not related to depression but if i don't keep the depression under control I eventually relapse. I think the question of recovery and medication should be between you and your Doctor. I can find no substaniating data in the Big Book or anywhere else that states that AA meetings should even discuss medical conditions and medications used to treat them. God bless you all and STAY SOBER


Member: Cathy
Location: northeast
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 8:41:53 AM

Comments

I'm with Joe R. I posted a topic on acceptance-went back later the same day and it was gone.


Member: Belinda Cary
Location: Dallas
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 8:43:10 AM

Comments

Hello my name is Belinda. I am an alcholic and this is my first time visiting this site. Tom S I want to say that I totally agree with you. I for the life of me can't figure out why we would talk about medical conditions outside of our alcoholism. And Sarah I also agree with you that this type of forum is not the place to dispense advice about something so serious. I don't want any part of that either.

With that in mind I will talk about Joe Rs subject choice. Losses. This is something I am closely familiar with and has been a big getting drunk excuse for me over the years. I spent many years blaming my alcholism on everyone and everything else. My parents died when I was a teenager, so I used that, anytime I had a break up with a boyfriend, I used that. It was always the perfect excuse for me to continue with my drinking.

Then one day I decided to try this AA thing and attempt sobriety. I was able to see how I used loss in my life as a reason to drink but did not realize that I continued to use it in sobriety to justify my sick and hurtful behavior. After 10 years sober, my husband and I divorced, I lost my beautiful home, my health deteriorated and much much more. I really thought I was going to die at so instead of seeking help from this program and working the steps, I decided to go back to the bottle. Great excuses don't you think? Well, I am back now and have been re-sober for 5 years this time. I just recently lost a man I love with all my heart and soul (for reasons beyond my control) and for the first time I am going through it rather than around it. I am in so much pain over this and to be honest it just seems so much easier to grab that old stand by beer. But this time I am working with my sponsor and others and just asking for help.

Loss is a big thing for us alcoholics. The good news for me is that I have finally taken the road to happiness. I think someone talked about that somewhere on this subject. I am sad and hurt but I am sober today and for that I am most grateful.


Member: Bob H.
Location: Triangle Club,South Bend<In.
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 9:50:34 AM

Comments

Hi i"m Bob alcoholic,thanks for being here for me .Thank you God and AA you people and the 12 steps for my recovery today .I havn"t had to take a drink pop a pill smoke a joint or do any mind altering substance since i got to this program in 1980 .However I havehad to go to a lot of meetings and listen to a lot of people to be able to live ythrough the rough times and still do today .Iheard and still do today Keep the focus on my sobriety and everything else would fall ito place.Practice not taking myself and other people so seriosly and practic taking this program more seriosly.For me today it is sometime don"think don"t drink go to meetings .My life is good today and anythig losses ar"nt easy to deal with for me .So I practice letting go. AS for persciption drugs,always check my modivs ao anything I do today thatswhen i must think ,think .think, love you all


Member: tom g.            
Location: saginaw, mi
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 9:56:31 AM

Comments

I am tom alcoholic sober today by the grace of god, and i agree that the topic of the use of prescription drugs belongs to the individual and a competent doctor. i was diagnose manic depressive, and i have to be careful about who i listen to on this highly personal subject. as long as i can focus on my sobriety, and try not to get involved in any controversy, i'm ok. i,m grateful that people recognise the value of this site, without feeling it has to replace face-to -face meetings. thank you for allowing me to share one day at a time


Member: Suzy G.
Location: Olympia,WA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:02:29 AM

Comments

Hello my name is Suzy, and Iam an alcoholic.Thank you Bob for this topic.Ifeel too many doctors in our country overprescribe drugs.Many alcoholics including myself have problems with depression.I think it is a good idea to try to work through your problems in counseling,AA meeting,sponser, whatever before resorting to drugs. I was out to dinner recently and I was the only women out of nine that was not on a antidepressent. Of course if you are taking drugs, this should be betwwen you and your doctor. I am not saying that I would never take a antidepressent, I just want to get further along in my recovery, and feel doctors should be more careful. Thank you for lettin me share.


Member: Jim S.
Location: sc.
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:04:12 AM

Comments

I consider myself to be a confident and motivated person-MOST of the time. At one point I took antidepressants to get me through a rough time. The medication enabled me to gain a new perspective on life and realize that the bad times would get better and that I could be happy MOST of the time. I don't take anti's anymore and I am an active, healthy, sociable person MOST of the time. It's that small amount of time that gets me. I do everything I can to be successful and healthy just so I can spend that SMALL amount of time drinking beer. I try to succeed so I can reward myself with beer. I don't drink when I am depressed; I know that makes it worse. I drink when I'm happy, to celebrate, to socialize. I don't mind not drinking through the week when I'm busy. I enjoy getting up early in the morning and feeling good! I've grown up in a family where drinking has always been a part of fun family get togethers, summer vacations, etc. Had a lot of fun drinking in college. It's like I've been programmed that I can only have a real good time when I'm drinking. For some reason I always forget about that horrible feeling the next morning that ruins the next two days because of guilt and just plain being sick. I just hate the thought of going out or going to a social function and not drinking. I feel like I am so dull when not drinking and I feel there's no way I'll have a good time without a six pack-usually a lot more. I don't drink everyday but when I do I always drink too much! I want to be able to do fun things( going to the beach, cooking out, camping, being with friends)without feeling like I HAVE to drink! I want to look forward to the weekend without my first thought being about beer. I am just now starting to feel "normal" again after getting totally way too drunk this past Saturday night. That one night cost me over 3 days of not feeling good. I don't want to do that again!


Member: Kathy S.
Location: Connecticut
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:35:12 AM

Comments

I would not be celebrating 7 years of sobriety if I hadn't been diagnosed and treated for depression and anxiety. I know today that I was self medicating myself for years because of what I believe to be chemical imbalance. But I'm the only who has to believe in these medications- I don't have to convince anyone they they have improved the quality of my life tenfold. To thine own self be true. Thanks.


Member: Joe M
Location: W.P.B. Florida
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:58:16 AM

Comments

Hi everyone!

My name is joe and I have alcoholism. Thanks for the topic Bob! I have heard this topic discussed in meetings. The only issue that we are loath to discuss in AA is an adiction to something other than alcohol. Medications, sex, relationships, money, personal behavior, etc.. All of these issues are discussed in the BB and in meetings along with more conventional topics such as the steps, traditions etc. No one individual may determine what is a good topic or not; it is a group conscious thing. This topic, perscription meds is an issue that effect alcoholics and therefore deserves a dioscussion.

That being said, I have been diagnosed as bi-polar or manic depressive if you like for most of my life. One of the many reasons i drank to begin with was to medicate myself. Drinking however only medicates so long and then it aggravates the condition. So it becomes a catch-22 especially for the alcoholic because he HAS to drink. Simply stopping drinking does not help or relieve my depression. AA does not balance my brain chemistry. Remeron, Nurontin, and Revia do. AA and God or rather God and AA saved my life and keep me safe and allow me to grow into the spiritual being I was intended to be. Both AA (read the big book) and God have directed me to outside help. And my doctor; bless her heart is fully aware of the needs of a person in recovery. Those doctors are out ther if you only inquire (footwork). Thanks again Bob for the topic, don't let the king-baby's of the world intimidate you. You're issues are just as important as anyone else's.

Thanks for letting me share.

Joe


Member: Leslie H
Location: California
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 12:04:47 PM

Comments

My name is Leslie, I'm an alcoholic. The timing of this topic is incredible. Thank you to all you have shared. It's a sensitive and provocative subject.

I had a minor surgery a week ago. That evening I had a reaction to the anesthesia and effects of the surgery--I had an anxiety attack. For anyone who has had one I don't have to say any more. For those you haven't had one, well, you may never fully understand. I have previously been diagnosed and prescribed anti-anxiety drugs by my physician but have never had to take any in four years of sobriety and I never abused pills before I got sober. But after fighting the anxiety for hours after my surgery I decided to take about 1/6 or the prescribed dose. I didn't want to do it--in the same way I don't care to take Tylenol or cold medicine today, but I never thought for one minute that I was sacrificing my sobriety. There was another sober alcoholic with me that I told that I'd done it. I got through the attack and called my sponsor who was had some very harsh words for me. Perhaps this is part of her role as sponsor. The end result was she told me that I may have broken sobriety but that it was up to me to call it. I was crushed.

Over the next couple days I called many other alcoholics that I respected and got a lot of feedback. I also wrote, prayed, cried and vacillated over my decision. I think it was the low point in my sobriety--the feeling of guilt shame and remorse. But I began to realize those weren't MY true feelings. Those were the opinions of my sponsor being projected onto me and that in my weakened physical and emotional state I took on as my own. I love and value my sponsor but in retrospect I think she may have done more harm than good. I think her lack of understanding or experience and subsequent judgement was more detrimental to my sobriety than taking the drug. I have to admit at one point the thought crossed my mind "well, if I'm out I may as well go way out." But that was the last thing in the world I wanted. And that is where my truth began to reveal itself to me. I value my sobriety more than anything and today I would not compromise that for any reason. This situation was not about getting "high" or even about sobriety. I took the drug to save my life. I know that sounds extreme but when you are in the anxiety attack you are irrational. That is what the drugs are for! To bring you back to reality. In my opinion there are more harmful, addictive, mind altering drugs in a cup of coffee that in my anti anxiety drugs.

Bottom line for me is it's about my motives (mine are clean) and also medical necessity (I have that). I believe sobriety is about honesty and humility but it isn't about punishment and martyrdom. I do not believe that I should automatically refuse medical treatment that has been prescribed for me. It needs to be taken case by case. And I'm not stupid, it's not like I had a fight with my boyfriend and decided to take a narcotic pain med that was left-over from dental work, or that I took a drink. Anxiety is a horrible disorder that I don't think anyone should have to suffer through. But don't get me wrong, I've thought long and hard about all this and if this comes up again I hope to try to be able to effectively apply some of the tools of this program to the problem and solve it without drugs. Unfortunately that was not the case last week. In the meantime, I think I need a new sponsor who has some compassion, not judgement, to bring to me and my situation.

Thank you for letting me share. I really needed to share this with those of my kind.


Member: Tim V
Location: Treasurer
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 1:21:01 PM

Comments

7th tradition!


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 1:43:51 PM

Comments

I generally don't take medicines if I like them, or want them. I only take medicines that my doctor (he's recovering) tells me I should take.

I would recommend that Joe and fed up take a chill pill whenever they feel it necessary to rant about a trusted servant who has been doing a faithful job week in and week out for 3 years.

You act as if something was done to you. You were just at the end of the old meeting when the site got refreshed. If you feel the need, post your topic again. Better yet, help another alcoholic, and get out of yourself. Not only will you feel better, you'll get better too.

In F2F meetings they recommend that you start a new meeting. There is lots of room on the Internet for a superior alcoholic and his fed up ungrateful friends.

Thanks cyber techs for your faithful work.


Member: Jim Solazar
Location: Tampa
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:21:42 PM

Comments

My name is Jim and I am not alcoholic but I was asked by a patient of mine to come to this site and read what was being said here. You see, I am one of those doctors who prescribes medication to patients of mine who require help with depression etc. My patient, who is also alcoholic, came to her appointment last evening and told me that she was very concerned about continuing with her treatment because the people here seem to think it is in direct conflict with her staying sober. She referred me here and asked me to give her my opinion after reading what was written.

I have done as she requested and read everything on here. I am shocked at how many of you take this subject as lightly as you do. Suzy G, how dare you make that statement implying that taking medications for depression hinder one's effort to go further into recovery. Are you a qualified physician? I treat many patients who are successfully staying sober while continuing with their regular medication. Suzy G, your opinion is just that! Your opinion. But you had better realize that there are people who come to this site, like my patient, who pay attention to those sorts of statements and potentially endanger themselves and others because they take it as gospel.

For the rest of you out there promoting the evils of this type of treatment, BEWARE! The message you are sending to those out there suffering from depression is that there is no hope for them. I have seen too many die by their own hand because of that stupid, yes stupid, idea. AA is a wonderful program for those people trying to stop drinking but it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the answer for those out there suffering from chronic, deep depression.

Finally, if you believe that this is all so innocent and that you are not affecting others, you are all kidding yourselves. My patient last night is living proof of the destructive effects comments like Suzy Gs have on innocent people who want nothing more than to get better. You people would do better to contain your topics to your disease of alcoholism. Besides isn't that what AA is all about?

Thank you for letting me speak on this very important issue. My advice to my patient this evening will be to discontinue coming to this site and work on here alcoholism in another setting.


Member: RICHARD H.....
Location: ....YES
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:24:04 PM

Comments

Just to say, at the bottom of this site there is an email address for the 'TECH' ? So, since I too have been iritated about the 'clearing' of topics from time to time ... I today wrote to the email address & asked if some time could be taken to check & see if a new weeks topic has started & not delet it. Seems like a good concept to me ... but what do I know? Perhaps it's a lack of basic civility, maybe it's a technical problem (which I doubt), whatever ... too much energy is bein used on this ongoing issue for sure So, having said that, the use of medication is just a must for some of us. It ain't negotiable any more than insulin is for a diabetic. It's one of those 'boundry' issues that needs to be respected, unless of course God actually tells you to tell me :-)


Member: Joe M
Location: W.P.B. Florida
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:37:32 PM

Comments

Hi again. Tim V..Just wanted to clarify that you meant Joe R and not Joe M. I believe the Cyber Heros on this site do an excellent job! all things human are flawed to some extent but I consider these pages;StayingCyber to be Godsent.

Thanks again

Joe M


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:37:41 PM

Comments

Doctor?

I looked up Jim Solazar in the Yahoo yellow pages and people search and did not find anyone by that name in Tampa Fl. I can find my plumber listed and I'm listed so I don't know about this source.

I personally think that what Suzy G. shared was perfectly appropriate in the contact of her experience strength and hope. I did not get any vibes telling someone not to take their medicine.

Further, my general impression is that the message here is very pro listen to your doctor, but remember you are an alcoholic too.

Jim, If you are for real, I appreciate your interest in us, but suggest you look a little closer. Keep coming back.


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 2:42:20 PM

Comments

Sorry Joe


Member: Stanley B
Location: Delaware
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 4:18:01 PM

Comments

I am sorry to double post here but I had to make a few comments...

Tim V.... I read what Mr. Solazar wrote and agree with him 100%. You on the other hand have a huge problem with "Live and Let Live." It is pathetic and scary to think that this program has a jerk like you as one of it's servants (treasurer)....

Jim Solazar...thank you for your message. Most people in AA do not act as poorly as our opinionated treasurer and most of us appreciate other comments like yours. I for one do appreciate your message and hope that your patient will listen to your advice because you are correct about this site. It is not a good representation of AA or the wonderful people involved in it.

I think I have had just about enough of this site as well. I have tried and tried to participate in this forum in a positive manner. I even left for while because it was just too frustrating to listen to all the bull shit. I attempted again this week to give it another shot and then Tim V, our local detective, had to put his shitty 2 cents in. This is futile and not worth any more effort. So have at it Tim V...you and all the rest of the destructive negative crowd here can have it all.


Member: Sad :-( to See
Location: Stanley B leave
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 4:31:56 PM

Comments

GREAT GOING TIM V!!! YOU ARE AN ASS HOLE!!! (and that is putting it mildly).

((Stanley B))Please stay with us. Your shares are always so insightful and inspiring and you always have something great to say. Don't let that ass hole get to you because none of us listen to his shit anyway. This site is in dire need of more people like you to share their ES&H.


Member: Pauline M
Location: MA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 4:53:47 PM

Comments

Hi everyone. Pauline, alcoholic.

Read the latest posts and would just like to say that if this was an f2f meeting, I'd be very hesitant about coming back. What on earth is with all the name calling? Please, is it necessary?! Are we not all sick and suffering alcoholics here to share our experience, strength and hope in recovery?

As for Suzy G and Jim Solazar: Mr. (Dr.?) Solazar, why didn't you sign as "Dr."? It is a title you have earned so why not use it? I'm an alcoholic--I've earned that title--so I use it. Suzy G - I can't help but say what I've heard at many, many meetings. "Remember what you hear and forget who you see" - Alcoholics Anonymous--remember?

As I said on the pot, if anyone can do a better job as far as the "techs" the "treasurer" or whatever, feel free to start your own perfect site.

Thanks for letting me share--boy do I need a meeting tonight after all this "STUFF"!


Member: Pauline M
Location: MA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 5:02:31 PM

Comments

Hi again, Pauline, alcoholic.

Sorry to monopolize the last few posts everyone.

Suzy G - I owe you an apology. I am sorry--I was venting at the wrong person and I was wrong.

I was so angry at the "doctor" and the anonymous patient who led him to this site.

Thanks.


Member: Kim S.
Location: Michigan
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 5:03:50 PM

Comments

Hi family.....alcoholic named Kim, here. Tradition 12 comes to mind, more than once as I read these posts.....Principles before personalities.....IMHO, medication issues should be between patient & doctor. The only suggestion I would offer is to be sure the doctor knows one is alcoholic. I recently had a boil near my ear lanced & the doc. (knowing I was alcoholic) prescribed Vicadin. The script was written for 10 pills and I have thrown 8 of them away. I needed to relieve the pain, but I didn't abuse them. It is not an issue for me to debate here or F2F. Thankfully, alcoholism is the only disease I suffer from right now. Here's a thought; would you deny a cancer patient treatment if chemo was addictive?

As for the loss issue.....NEVER easy, but much better sober, as with all issues in my life today. When I thought we were going to have to "pull the plug" on my mom two years ago, the thing I hung on to most was......Thank God she got to see me SOBER! Because of the people in AA, I was able to tell her that if it was her time, it was ok with me and not sit there begging her to stay; which would have been completely selfish on my part.

I have only recently found this board and, like any other one I've found, controversy and opinions make for conversation. If we all held the same opinion, one post would cover it. Thank God that is not the case.

Thank you all for letting me share MY opinion! God bless and keep us all sober today!


Member: Sad
Location: Again
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 5:43:21 PM

Comments

((Pauline M)) you and Tim V could run against each other for the next ASS HOLE elections. I think you could give him a good run for his money.


Member: Pauline M
Location: MA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 5:47:14 PM

Comments

Pauline, alcoholic.

Bye.


Member: Ron s.
Location: wisconsin
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 6:22:47 PM

Comments

Hi Ron here this is my first time to this site read all of the comments. been with aa for 20 years. and if I intend on staying sober I will stay away from this name calling and I think we here call those bad attitudes dry drunks where I'm from. to much negative poop here bye.


Member: Colleen D
Location: Philadelphia
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 6:50:39 PM

Comments

Hi Colleen here - a happily recovering alcoholic. I am about 8 months sober and continue to take various medications from the remifications of my drinking actions. i may be on these for the rest of my life. my input is alcohols anonymous is to stop drinking is it not? while i tthink doctors do overmedicate if given the chance, you must decide what is right for you, no one else. i thought there were no rules or anyone giving orders here? what i do is go to meetings and don't drnk, isn't that what this is all about? there are some very angry people here. think i might prefer face to face meetings, people tend not to be nasty when they have to look someone else in the eye. bye for now


Member: TobiA
Location: NYC
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 7:16:14 PM

Comments

Hi, Tobi, Alcoholic.

I have heard a lot about online meetings from people lately, and this is the one I stumbled into. Ouch! Some of you will have to take inventory about it later... but I'm here for my program, and you can worry about yours.

I read all of the posts about prescription meds, particularly depressions meds, and only one person mentioned talking to their sponsor about this issue - and she did it after she had already taken the action.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, this is definitely an issue to talk about with your sponsor before taking action. I have been sober for 5 years, and I've had a sponsor that entire time. I trust and love my sponsor, and know that she has my higher good and my sobriety in mind whenever she gives me direction. I recently had oral surgery and discussed it with her in advance - after the surgery I left the pain meds with her. If I wanted or needed them I had to get them from her. It sure kept me honest about using them. That was my solution and her direction.

One of the things that fascinated me about AA when I first came into the rooms was that "program" was a personal thing, that it was differant for everyone, and that it is between you, your sponsor and your higher power. As a program based decision, I think the decision to take depression meds is the same thing. A PERSONAL DECISION BETWEEEN YOU, YOUR SPONSOR, AND YOUR HIGHER POWER.

I take depression meds. I have clinical depression that goes in long cycles - I took meds for about two years, stopped for about two years, and started again about one year ago. FOR ME they are a god send. They are non-narcotic. They relieve a condition that can, and has, persisted for YEARS. They are not a cure-all, they are FOR ME a tool that I have chosen to use AFTER I have applied all of the other tools that AA has given me: the steps, meetings, sponsorship, etc. I made the decision to use these meds with a doctor, my sponsor, my higher power (prayer) and my conscience.

To the woman who took anxiety meds and got chewed out by her sponsor: One of the reasons I picked my sponsor because I know that we have many of the same fundamental views about life and the world, and what it means to be sober. I need to feel safe with my sponsor, not be judged. I am black - my sponsor is white. If I had any inkling that my race gave her cause to judge me, I could not have her as my sponsor. I feel the same way about the depression meds.


Member: TobiA
Location: NYC
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 7:18:55 PM

Comments

I forgot to say thank you for letting me share...


Member: serenity seeker
Location: the fellowship of AA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 7:23:46 PM

Comments

Well, reading all the posts lately proves to me that some are indeed sicker than others!

This happens at f2f meetings sometimes as well. Thank goodness for the Serenity Prayer!

Hey guys! Lets try to remember that while we may be "folks that normally would not mix", we are all here to stay sober & help the suffering alcoholic find sobriety!

Serenity, peace, & sobriety to all!


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 7:31:12 PM

Comments

So you got caught in a game and now you are mad at me! Oh well. I won't drink over it, and I won't use pills to help me through the pain either.

Blessings and sobriety.


Member: Michael B.
Location: AZ
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 7:32:53 PM

Comments

Hi! My name is Michael, and I am a recovering alcoholic and addict, sober today only by the grace of God and the Fellowship. Welcome to the newcomers! Thanks everyone for sharing!

Great topic, Bob. This is an issue that I think we should address periodically, even though the best answer to this debate about AA's using meds is explicitly found in the literature. Specifically, the pamphlet "the AA member-Medications & other Drugs" discusses in detail the very issue Bob T. raises.

While I can't reprint the entire pamphlet for those of you who haven't obtained it yet, the basic premise in the pamphlet is that no AA member should "prescribe for themselves" and no AA should play doctor, giving advice about taking or not taking medication. This advice should be reserved for doctors who AA's have maintained a candid relationship with about their history of substance abuse. Of course, some AA's are Dr's., but that's another story.

Again, the best answer to this debate can be found in the above-mentioned pamphlet, which I paid 25 cents for several years ago and which can purchased from GSO or perhaps the local Intergroup office. AA's prescribed meds for legitimate reasons should not listen to other AA's who tell them that they shouldn't take the meds. They're wrong!


Member: tonydaduck
Location: USA
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 8:17:08 PM

Comments

i would like to express my support for (((Tim V.))) as i feel his postings have been reasonable and responsible.Why argue? What ever happened to the pursuit of serenity? If you(editorial you) are unsatisfied with the chosen topic (of this particular site) just move on to another site.The efforts of one poster to "pose" as an "M.D." was pathetic,irresponsible,and in many respects an insult to the intelligence of all who read the posts herein.(((Tim V.))) and other volunteers are to be supported and encouraged,in my opinion,for all the time and effort they contribute herein.


Member: Recovering Alcoholic
Location: Sick of the Fights
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 8:59:00 PM

Comments

I would just like to say one thing please.

((TIM V.)) You just don't know when to stop do you? WILL YOU PLEASE GIVE IT A REST! The more you post your smart little responses the more you goat these people to post their nasty replies. DO US ALL A FAVOR AND TAKE YOUR STUPID FIGHT TO THE COFFEE POT AND LET THE REST OF US SHARE IN PEACE!!

Thank you

PS: On the topic of meds, Jim the Dr. has every right to his opinion as we all do. Anyone here ever hear the saying "live and let live?" Maybe more should try practicing it a little more.


Member: Carol
Location: Nebraska
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 10:17:31 PM

Comments

Hi I am Carol. I read lots of the posts here and just feel terrible for that Doctor who wrote about his patient (he was sharing his concern from someone who asked for his help). Looking up someone's name in the yellow pages is not an indication that anyone is a fake so I think your accusation Tim V was completely unwarranted. As for you tonydaduck, what basis do you have to make such an unfounded accusation? Tim Vs word that he did a search on the yellow pages? Oh please. It is really an embarrasment when people like you do that to non-AA people. We are by no means above reproach.

On the topic of medication, I believe that the Doctor is right to warn us about giving out medical advice to people who have other diseases or conditions outside of alcoholism. It is clear that we do affect others while being active members of AA and with that in mind we must be careful not to harm anyone by giving advice about something we are not qualified to address. AA is not the place to get medical assistance for depression. My sponsor always told me that it was a place to get sober with other people who have the same disease.

On the topic of losses. I have lost much in my life both when drunk and sober. The thing for me to remember is that loss is a natural part of life, period. So I can anticipate experiencing many losses throughout my life. Loss is not necessarily a bad thing. The truth is that we don't like change and loss creates change. Without change we would be doing that old "same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result." No thanks, that kind of insanity I can do without.

Thank you for letting vent, share, post or what ever you wish to call it. I just wanted to say to Jim the Doctor if you ever come back and read this. Please forgive some of the ignorance displayed on this site. I find it commendable that you cared enough about your patient to even come here and read at her request. Not many physicians would do such a thing.


Member: .....
Location:
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:16:57 PM

Comments

I say we all take back our votes for Tim V for treasurer and elect someone else who is not so dam judgmental..Making nasty remarks about people who need to take medication is the last straw Timmy..you have gone over edge with that one..


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location:
Date: 3/29/00
Time: 11:18:50 PM

Comments

Catherine~~alcoholic~~~

The meds issue is personal...what we hear many folks imply is that if one is on meds, they are lacking a certain "quality" of sobriety. That is also something only each individual can decide. Many of us come here from recurring hospital stays for chronic depression. I have known a few that did die by their own hand. But if the Dr. friend above was for real he would have also told you the truth about chronic depression. He probably would not have singled anyone out if he were a professional. He certainly would not have implied anyone here is powerful enough to kill another person w/ what has been shared here... were he a professional. Not saying this because I agree or disagree w/ anyone...just that professionals don't do things quite this way. & if I am mistaken, perhaps he needs to re-evaluate his ethics.

Trust me on this one.

Anyway....Loss I also know, I lost my partner 10 years ago to suicide. Changed my entire life. The most horrible, intense, pain I have ever been through. During the first few days I could not believe the world/life around me just continued...it should have stopped! But it did not. Nor did mine. One day at a time the pain got overwhelming. I was afraid I might spend the rest of my life being the "girlfriend" of the "one who killed themselves". But through the years of sharing, taking care of myself And staying as close as possible to my friends and sponsor, a few months of being a practicing drunk again and then returning to honestly work my program,I have found something special. With time the pain lessened, I can talk about it today and I am ok. It happened in my life, it was real and it is now part of my history, of me, but it is not what I am about. I learned that I can carry a message of hope around that experience for others who may need to hear that "it will be ok". Its not just another cliche'..."time heals".

Thank you for letting me share.


Member: Me
Location:
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 12:24:34 AM

Comments

So Catherine, I take it that you are a professional then and we should all take your word for it because you say you are? You dont know anything about what someone would or would not do. Unless of course you are trying to convince us that you are God. And if that is the case dear, you are the one who needs to do a re-evaluation. I have read some of your writings in the coffee pot and quite honestly I agree with what many have told you there: Here is one that has been said ofen: YOU ARE FULL OF YOURSELF and HAVE NOTHING I WANT.


Member: Rover
Location: England
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 12:31:44 AM

Comments

what a patheic bunch of losers you all are. none of you have any idea what it means to be a compassionate human being. To Tim V, Sad, tonydaduck, ...., Sad Again, Catherine, and Me, you are all a disgrace to the program of AA.


Member: Bon C
Location:
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 1:57:08 AM

Comments

Hi extended family, bonnie/alcoholic here (((ROOM-HUG))) to my brothers and sisters here in fellowship. to the others, take the name calling to another site. Like who brought the kids into the AA hall and aren't supervising them? If you haven't got any experience, strength or hope to share, please take whatever it is that you have & your soap box to another site it. This is not the place for you. If you want sobriety but only know how to attack others then take the cotton off your eyes and tape it to your finger tips till you learn how to be at least a little respectful of the success of AA in saving and rebuilding lives. That's what this AA site is all about. Helping others with our experiences. What the hell program are you spewing. Not AA, not friend ship or fellowship. no common kindness or even common sense. Attacking from behind bullshit names. Stop attacking tim and our techs who work so hard just to give us a forum, they dont get paid for this, they do it because its part of their program, go away and leave us. You are not anonymous here. you have a server, you sign on, your server sends you, your employer, your school a bill. to your address. you are not anonymous. We are alcoholics who still suffer and you are taking your anger out on us? This is an AA site. In this feel good, touchy feely society we have today. If someone were to print out one of your attacking posts and off themselves, you could be found and people all over the world are being held accountable for the things they do on the web. Don't feel so damned safe. You're not anonymous and you will be held responsible for your actions. Besides what goes around, comes around and never from the direction that we expect it. Whether you believe in God or karma. You have alot of stuff coming your way and most of it isn't very good. The discussion page and the 12 & 12 page were mostly program till this week and now it looks like the coffee pot thats truly run amuk. If you don't want sobriety, go away, hopefully there will be a site left if you or someone you love needs it.

Pills, Meds - doctors perscribed valium/librium for my anxiety attacks when I was 17. I was 5'6 and weighed 90 lbs. The doc also suggested I drink a beer before bedtime, not only would it help me relax but it would help me gain weight. I got worse, doc just kept throwing pills at my problem. when I was 23 quite by accident, a doc who was sewing up my toe after it had been almost cut off during a hurricane, looked at my neck and said you have a thyroglossal duct cyst, roots attached to the back of my tongue, etc. It was truly choking me. they had been shutting me up with pills and booze instead of doing their job. many docs, many times. I was addicted by this time. but got clean from pills shortly after the surgery (tough withdrawl) but continued to drink till I was 30. No matter that I'm sober and I'm honest with my doc that I can't take mood altering meds. She still acts like my alcoholism is a pill deficientcy. I told her that my husband was having an affair and I wanted tested and after the tests she just handed me a prescription for an antidepressant. I wanted to have that prescriptions filled in the worse way but I knew I wouldn't stop taking them once the problem was over and I knew she'd be more than happy to give me more. I tore it up and handed it back to her. I don't want my pain medicated. I was medicated for too many yrs. I have gone thru deep depressions without meds but I worked and wrote and wrote and prayed and prayed. many tears, meetings, gab sessions into the night, coffee shops, etc. It worked. it may have worked if I would have taken the meds. Thank God I didn't need them. I got to embrace the pain and learn the lessons. I know when I'm abusing them, I know when I'm playing head games with myself. I'm no martyr. If I need a med and cant find an alternative method, I'll take it. Had dental work done, deep surgery into the bone and did accept 3 pain pills to take home. reg tylenol worked but I kept those pills for 7 days in case I needed them, then i flushed them cause i know me. some Drs are so irresponsible with the way they hand out prescriptions, you cant get 10 mothers in a room that at least 4 of them have their kids on ridilin, you do know thats baby speed. know quite a few folks who started out their drug addictions when they were 4 with their peditrition as their pusher. Theres a peditrition in NY (I think) Doris Rapp who writes about food allergies and kids and has written books on these drugs and kids and how much they hurt them, Sherry Rogers is another who treats with nutrition. I was in the nutrition field for many yrs. This is just my story and feelings. Everyone is biologically different. I want all this program has to offer and for this alky it has to be pill, drug and alcohol free. Dear God please bless all who venture here. love and hugs, bon


Member: Dean S
Location: Phoenix, Az
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 3:25:52 AM

Comments

My name is Dean and I am an alcoholic.

The book Alcoholicsn Anonymous tells me that I am not cured of alcoholism. It goes on to say that what I have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

I maintain my spiritual condition on a daily basis by applying the steps of our program to the best of my ability, without rationalizing my ability. Thus, when I need to make a decision that might affect my sobriety either favorably or unfavorably, it is not a huge problem.

Prescription drugs have, in my experience, been necessary on many occasions. Before I finally sobered up I was in the hospital taking demorol. LOTS of it!! I loved it!! When, after a few days, my behavior gave me away the nurse said "no more demorol for you!". After a few years of sobriety I was again in hospital taking demorol and I had no craving for more, more, more. Why the difference?

The answer I come up with is that my spiritual program of action had changed my priorities. Self gratification was no longer important to me. There are things in this life far more important than getting drunk (or high).

Our auto accident 59 days ago is still raising hell with my life. Currently I am taking a narcotic for pain control. My Dr. says this is the best medication to use at this time. I take it for it's intended purpose and I have no more fear of it than I have of eating in an establishment that sells booze. Those of you who have read the Big Book know exactly what I am talking about. I do not know what your response would be to this type of medication, I am only relating my own experience. To me this is not a mind or mood altering drug. It is for pain control only.

I have seen some very nasty results when non-professional people have told others to not take prescribed medications. I have told new people in AA to be honest with their physician and talk openly about their addiction. Several have presented good ideas on that in this meeting.

Thanks for allowing me to share. This is what AA is all about - you and I growing up together.

Thanks for your love. Thanks for my life. Dean

Once a few years ago I was on morphine and several months later I had a craving for another dose. It was a dandy!! I called an AA friend who had also had morphine and asked him if he ever experienced the craving. He had not, but offered to beat a path to my door. Isn't this a wonderful program? When the craving came it not only brought me closer to God as I understand Him, but also closer to one of my AA buddies.


Member: Cec H
Location: Cowtown[calgary]
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 3:59:21 AM

Comments

Hi all Cec H alcky here,I just love a good barroom brawl,Dr Jim is or isn't and I don't care which,All I know is trad 3 & 5 and just a pinch of 10, Joe R. step 3, page 62 half way down in the bold print in the 12&12.Do the topic on sunday or when ever the hp starts the week, I'll tell you about my buddy Ray. As for meds thats between you, your sponsor & your HP.Enoughf said. Remember if their talking about you , their leaving some poor S.O.B. alone Another 24 to go please


Member: Shelli
Location: N.CA
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 4:28:19 AM

Comments

Wow!! What a contraversal conversation. It's absolutely amazing how one weeks posting on bottoms, uniting everyone can be so different from the next weeks postings on drugs other than alchol and losses, it has become a free for all with the old "Target and attack game" I guess thats why the tradition that states "we have no opion on outside issues" works so well in situations like these. My day is over, it has been another hard one, another cancer treatment, 50cc of benadryl with the cancer drug, got me ripped, have been depressed most the night over it. I had once again almost 4.5 years clean now physically it's out the window, but I know there is a higher purpose, life basically, its certainly not about using. I haven't had a drink in 13 years now, will be 14 in june and no matter what else happens in my life, I know that not even a doctor can prescribe me to drink nor would he, there are no good reasons nor excuses to drink no matter what, except one, I want to. But obviously we do have to take medications at times in our lives for various reasons. It has been my experienc that I can stay perfectly sober, meaning without boose, but have never been able to stay perfectly clean. Its not always about using, it is always about quality of life and at times just staying alive. Once I went out behind pot, the only other option I could come up with was a 22 cent bullet to stop the pain, I really believed no one cared. I didn't drink because I new I'd buy the bullet. Anti depressents weren't an option because it makes perfect sense being depressed when your 36 and your 10 year relationship is being flushed down the toilet over an affair your husband is having with a 26 year old bomshell, I might add who was in the program and one of my sponsories, yep, I know all about anxiety attacks, sitting in the f2f meetings holding hads with the both of them trying to work it all out, couldn't even breathe. But instead of running away and throwing my arms up in the air and quiting and saying I'm out of here, something I was really good at, I took resposabilty for how I felt and spent the next 2 years working it out right down to the divorce, rejoining my fellowship, getting clean, talking to various different healers, my sponsor, whom I might add never fired me because she new I wasn't a loser, ouch, although many of my sponsories did with good cause, yet even they have remained my friends over the years, God held my hand alot, and, I learned a very important lesson. That no matter how good I am, no matter how hard I try, no matter how sober I think I might be, I am only a thought away from using or drinking, had depending on how I feel that day, or what is happening in my life, I influence those around me on a regular basis. We can fight and bicker amongst ourselves all week long if we want to, but I think the topic of RECOVERY... would be alot more helpful. I didn't drink today, many of my friend in recovery use mind meds to help them, fortunatly I'm not one, but for the grace of god there go I, I think the Dr's post was a sound one whether or not he is real or not is unimportant but targeting an individual was in poor taste. Doesn't a treasurer count money, why target him, And for whom ever does this site ((techs)) Thank-you. what else is there to say. You above all else have kept me sober. From the grief process I have moved right along to the anger stage of my loss. Now once again I am determined to stay sober one more day if for no other reason than to come back to read on more. And to learn who you all, really are. Good luck with your fighting. SS


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 7:25:05 AM

Comments

Michael B.

Thank-you. That is the most sensible post of all.

Thanks too for the words of support by the real people.

Blessings


Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 8:21:09 AM

Comments

I'm beyond human aid.......

I follow the path laid down by the first 100 members..... shift from self to spirit...

GOD is my drug of choice today!

I did my part steps 1-5 He does his steps 6-12

No more pain.....just freedom!


Member: Paul Q
Location: Toronto
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 8:29:01 AM

Comments

Oh one more thing...... last time I ever come to this site!

Its in the book not at a web site!

Once you have been whacked by GOD...you take another alcoholic through the book...


Member: Disgusted
Location:
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 8:53:57 AM

Comments

i see that God (Bon C) has spoken. oh and by the way Bon or would you rather i call you God, illegal use of internet ids is against the law. it is called consumer privacy. and i see that Tim V just has to keep on posting. don't you get enough attention at home?


Member: Jason D
Location: Ma.
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 9:43:30 AM

Comments

Hi My name is Jason And I am a alcoholic, Bob T. good topic, I to am on antipsycotics. The anser that was given to me, is that if a med is perscribed by a doctor then you should take that medication acorrding to a doctor. I to am on pills to help my thinking, they seem to help out so I take them. Outside help is somtimes nessesary as well as AA. A AA member is not a doctor and should not tell you not to take perscribed medacations. This is not AA related but there are dual recovery programs out there. They seem to use the same 12 steos as AA but the focus is on mental ilness as well as alcohol. Well thats my posting for today keep coming.


Member: tom g.
Location: saginaw, mi
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 10:23:56 AM

Comments

my name is Tom, and I am an alcoholic, and a little nervous to share, but grateful that I can come to this site and take what I need and leave the rest. It's not a suprise that the topic of using medication or drugs brings a heated discussion, simply because the times this topic has come up in a face to face meeting the same thing happens. I think that it will always be that way- some topics have that sort of attention . the topic of loss affects me now in that i do not want to lose this site which I have just found and has helped me tremendously, and i for one am grateful for. I have been told that this is a "we" program not an "I" program, and this site is simply another tool to help us stay sober one day at a time. I don't want to lose my new friends, this new tool, and as my sponsor says let go let God. by the way, at least the topic has prompted a lot more of us to share. And of course, thanks for helping me stay sober and grateful for the interest. have a great day!


Member: Arlene C
Location: Northeast Washington
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 1:26:54 PM

Comments

My name is Arlene and I am an alcoholic. I have been sober for almost 22 years and live the program to the best of my ability. When I came across this sight, I thought it woulh d enhance my soberity. Boy was I wrong. "Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help others achive soberty." In my opinon this sight just isn't doing it. Reading all of this negativity and name calling doesn't not improve my soberity nor does it carry the message, that we can live happy joyous and free. If this were going on in my home group, I would change home groups. I urge all of you who want to truge the road to happy destiny, to star start carring the message of hope and love!!! WE SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT THIS FELLOWSHIP HAS SAVED THE LIVE OF MANY WONDERFUL PEOPLE.


Member: S.T.
Location: Eastern Canada
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 3:20:00 PM

Comments

s.t. here, alcoholic. To everyone who has posted so far, I will be praying for you, as I would like to be prayed for. I really need to keep us sharing our experience, strength and hope right now. Remember that each one of us is very special, and that we can learn to love ourselves for who we are. Never mind what anyone else thinks of us, and never let anything in this world ever conquer all that we are. Thanks for letting me share. s.t.


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 4:13:52 PM

Comments

Arlene, thanks for sharing. S.T. thanks for your prayers.

Blessings


Member: Perry A
Location: SC
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 4:28:04 PM

Comments

Dear, Jim Solazar, Tampa, I'm Perry an alcoholic.

First I want to state for the record, "I have no opinions on outside issues, my only purpose is to help other alcoholics recover from alcoholism," and in that way, I too can be relieved of the compulsion to drink alcohol on a daily basis.

You stated the following, "For the rest of you out there promoting the evils of this type of treatment, BEWARE! The message you are sending to those out there suffering from depression is that there is no hope for them. I have seen too many die by their own hand because of that stupid, yes stupid (Jim, this is interesting wording...), idea. AA is a wonderful program for those people trying to stop drinking but it is NOT, I repeat NOT, the answer for those out there suffering from chronic, deep depression."

I am glad you distinguished chronic, deep depression from what was not mentioned, situational depression, sadness, or remorse. No one would suggest that depression in any form should go untreated, there are many "therapeutic resources" available to those who suffer from such varying and debilitating afflictions. In my experience, cognitive psychological counseling, alone or in combination, demonstrates results, as well, for less severe forms of the aforementioned ailments.

You did not indicate you were a doctor in your title, yet you treat patients? This is quite interesting. If you are a certified social worker, then you would be listed as certified in Tampa, correct, and why not include this mention in your title, as well? Again I find this interesting.

If you are a doctor, whether psychologist or psychiatrist you will certainly value the opinions of doctors of pharmacology, correct?

Not being a doctor of pharmacology my self, I recommend you do your own research, outside the program, about the evils of advice, and I might direct you to check out the following web site for one factual pharmacological reference. http://www.drugawareness.org/

You said, "Thank you for letting me speak on this very important issue. My advice to my patient this evening will be to discontinue coming to this site and work on here (you mean her?) alcoholism in another setting."

Dear Jim, or whomever you are, as anyone can see, this site poses certain difficulties that are not apparent in face-to-face meetings; however, this site is a good way to get hooked-up with information and advice, and I'd second your opinion to steer your "friend, patient, or whomever" to attend meetings with real people.

Happy research, and best wishes!

Bon C, I agree, the Staying Cyber web guys are doing everything they can, as volunteers, considering the circumstances, and their decisions are not easy to make. They could choose to set this site to track location by cookies and have the ISP and server loc's printed automatically by each Ďanonymous' person's post. That would certainly reduce the anonymity of this forum, but it would be entirely legal for them to do it, as it would then be each person's choice, as to whether or not they posted to a site, that openly profiled such information about them before they submitted an electronic message. What a shame if they had to resort to such measures.

God bless us alcoholics, and much sobriety to you all! As usual, take what you want and leave the rest!

Perry Out!


Member: roger
Location: NM
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 7:15:31 PM

Comments

Roger here, recovering Alcoholic from NM. good topic, Seems there are those that are very against meds, especially narcotic types (for good reasons mind you). But sometimes a person needs meds. For gosh sakes just because you are a problem drinker and prone to chemical addiction is no reason why you shouldn't take the chemicals prescribed by a fully informed doctor, so what if it isn't 100% non mind altering, it's possibly whats best. I say possibly because some DR's would be wrong in their prescriptions. But NO ONE in AA should discuss medication exceptin terms of their own experience, strength and hope. Giving medical advice can be deadly, because you as an AA group have a lot of influence over a newbie, and shame ing someone into stopping taking med's can have, as storied above, disasterouos consequences. Now, to the real topic, I'm not sure if antidepressants help me or not, I don't think I'm the truly unbalanced type that they are designed for, but I take them, DR recommended. I'm working carefully with him to try and get off them in the best way, at the best time. I can judge somewhat how my depression feelings are, and I really don't think what I'm taking is helping, and in the long run probably hurting by delaying fuller mental recovery. also took and take (on my way off for the last time I hope) tranquilizers, which are to a large extent solid alcohol, but a much cleaner substance. Very addictive. I havent escalated use though, and as a matter of fact asked the Dr to unprescribe me, slowly over a few months. So I have a bit of a grip on it now, but could lose it, it is addictive and I'm an addict. So it's better to get off it. Then again when I needed it I did, and would definetly been non functional in a world of responsibility with out taking it when I started it. But now the crisis is over and I need to get clean. Had a hardcore friend keep me away from a med refill once, went to meetings etc, 12 steps would cure me, he didnt realize how close to a nervous breakdown I was, and I m glad I went to the DR against his advice. He refused to take me to the DR or pharmacy, didnt want to be a part of the crime. So thank god my daughter got me to the DR and pharmacy that time. So, as an experienced one, do what you and your DR have to do, but minimum of anything is best. If you do need it you do, if you don't stay away. A big part of that decision is yours and a part should be your Dr's.


Member: Cecinsa
Location: California
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 7:49:44 PM

Comments

If you suffered from diabetes you wouldn't be asking about the appropriatness of prescribed medications, would you? Depression, OCD and other "mental" dis-eases are just as legitimate as cancer or t.b. When we used alcohol we were self-medicating and that is defeating behavior but having the humility to discern the vast difference between that and the legitimate medically indicted treatment for other conditions is both wise and proper.


Member: Tammy P
Location: Ottawa
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 10:04:25 PM

Comments

Tammy, alcoholic, For all those people who seem to be upset about what is being written here, one thing in AA that I have learned is we all have choices, another I have learned is not to take anyone elses inventory only my own, if I am not happy with something it is up to me to do something about it, inside me, not change anyone else, acceptance, and just like a meeting you take what you want and leave the rest behind. Both alcoholism and depression are very serious conditions and a medical professional is the only person who can qualify to give advise on depression, not personal advise but educated advise, which is very diffrent.

I was put on medication when I was detoxing for the simple reason that my blood pressure went throught the roof, what good is sobering up if I die doing it. I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder before my drinking began, this has been a problem for me since child hood and continues to be. Both my alcoholsim and my anxiety disorder are treated with the respect that each disease needs to be treated with. No one else can tell another what is right or wrong, it is inside you. Everyone has a right to their opinion, you just have to always remember it is just that an opinion.


Member: Angela B
Location: Seattle, WA
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 11:00:18 PM

Comments

Angela, alcoholic. My strong opinion on prescription drugs comes from experience. In rehab, the docor took me off all my meds. (I had been taking medications for ADD and depression). I can't say that taking me off these meds improved my health in any way. I ended up staying off the anti-depressants after rehab, and my depression increased dramaticly. Not only was I "on the outs"-and now had the oppertunity to use, but I had given up all my using friends... a difficult thing for a 17 yr old to do, when all your friends use some sort of mind-altering chemical. Making new friends seemed to be impossibe, and everything in my life felt hopeless. I knew I was depressed, and tried to "will" myself out of the depression. Eventually, I had given up on my sobriety, and once again, the bottle became my only sense of comfort and hope. About a month later, my therapist found out that I was drinking again. She was extremly worried that I had been drinking by myself before school. I was clinicly depressed, and prescribed Prozac. That was about 6 weeks ago, and I feel great. I've got 37 days sober! Because those hopeless feelings have left, my whole outlook on life has drasticly changed. I have been able to make new friends, and am excited about graduating in June. (Just 2 months ago, I considered dropping out). I don't know if I would be here right now if it weren't for the antidepressant, and my HP. Thanks for listening.


Member: pearla g
Location: austin tx
Date: 3/30/00
Time: 11:35:23 PM

Comments

hi my name is Pearla my dad is an alcoholic and I was wondering if there's a web site in spanish in which my dad can go in. I have noticed that he always wants to say what's on his mind or his past expiriences,the problem is that I can not relate to what he says. so I know he needs to talk to someone. would some one help me please!!!thank you


Member: Donna M.
Location: oklahoma
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 12:30:11 AM

Comments

Donna here and am an alcoholic, I was sober for six years without medication and now five years later after many relapses I know the midicine has had nothing to do with drinking. I am an slcohoic and nothing will ever change that fact. sober thru God.


Member: Tom
Location: Asia
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 3:07:26 AM

Comments

Greetings...Where to begin? As a person who has consumed alcohol in a destructive way on-and-off for the past 15 years, I have finally come to the brilliant conclusion that I simply must stop. There really are 3 choices! One: Continue to throw the dice with my health and mentality stability by jumping on the "wagon" for a few weeks at a time as I have over the past 10 years. Two: Moderate my consumption of alcohol (yah, right) and Three: Simply quit consuming the stuff in any form and any amount.

Well folks, it looks like it's number Three. Sober for two days now, I have been investigating the options "out there" to help me not have to go it alone because my willpower always fails me in regard to the booze. I tried "Rational Recovery," which teaches mind control techniques in the realm of psychology and logical thinking. For the past 2 1/2 years this method has not helped me. Perhaps it works for others but I guess with a 65% success rate I am one of the 35% who simply does not get it.

So, here I am exploring the option of AA for the first time. I certainly knew of AA's existence but being a seemingly introspective person I am not too fond of talking about myself in the presence of complete strangers. Thus, finally getting "on-line" I quickly looked up AA and found this site. How depressing!! All of my inclinations about this "spiritual organization" are seemingly apparent on this site. What's worse, dealing with hangovers or incorporating all of this negativity and judgmentalism into my life?

You see, living and working in a rural part of an Asian country far from a town center, there simply are no AA meetings to be found. Plenty of little pubs with friendly, non-judgmental people but no longer the place for me if I want to continue living to be an old man.

So, any suggestions...Presently no AA meetings to attend unless I take a train 4 1/2 into the city; stopping on my own simply does not work; the idea of moderation is a dangerous joke, and this on-line site is comparable to a nasty hangover. Are meetings in-person like this too?

I really want to stop drinking once and for all. Any sincere suggestions would be truly appreciated!


Member: a friend
Location:
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 3:09:27 AM

Comments

PEARLA G. Find a search engine like lycos or yahoo look under AA or Alcholics Anonymous, and seach for a spanish speaking site for your dad, that's my guess, God bless and good luck.


Member: Cec H
Location: Cowtown [calgary]
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 4:21:12 AM

Comments

Hi all , Cec H alcky here, To Tom in Asia , No the Meeting Here is not like a f2f meeting.People can come in here and be who ever,at a f2f you can tell who talks the talk and who walks the walk. True you might have to follow them around a bit till you find out who's who. But hey you'll stay sober doing it.Give the World Office a call out of New York. Sorry I donn't have an e-mail adress for them or web site. But if you logon to nite I'll have one for you. If your wondring why I am doing this, there's this thing I was taught it goes like this, I am responsible. When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help,I want the hand of A.A. always to be there. And for that I am responsible. Besides there was somebody there for me.If you can get your-self a copy of the Big Book.Read it study it,It tells me how the first one hundred got sober and stayed sober.It work for them and it's worked for me the last 19 years. Hope to see you at the coffee pot tonite. Just remember that it's only today you donn't have to drink.


Member: For Pearla G.
Location: www.alltheweb.com
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 6:06:46 AM

Comments

http://www.stanet.com.ar/aa/montegrande/

http://www.sanytel.com/alcoholicos_anonimos.htm

http://www.home.ch/~spaw1140/aa/

http://www.guiaholistica.com/art/Alcoholicos_Anonimos.htm


Member: Bonnie Z.
Location: PA, USA
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 6:21:00 AM

Comments

Hi, Bonnie here, alcoholic. I have seen this topic hotly debated. If a medication is prescribed by a doctor, out of necessity, it is needed just as say, a diabetic needs insulin for their condition. I know that there are doctors who understand where we're coming from in the program, and they are the best to go to, as they take our addictions under consideration.

For Pearla: Go to www.aagrapevine.org They have "La Vina" as an option at the site, it's the AA magazine en Espanol.

(((((Everyone)))))) have a great day!


Member: Glen H
Location: Denton, TX
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 9:18:37 AM

Comments

Those arguing about medication on the discussion page must not have been reading here a while back. Dan F found God, got sober, and was starting on the steps with a sponsor when he wrote us his last post prior to jumping to his death from the roof of a building in Wisconsin. If you're suffering from depression, you need professional help and while AA has people who share your experience, it ain't the place to get the help you need.


Member: Tom G                 
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 9:33:20 AM

Comments

hi! my name is Tom, and I'm an alcoholic. I am also bi-polar and have been on medicine for almost 20 years. I came in the AA program in 1984, stayed away from the first drink for five years, decided to go off my medicine in 1989, and relapsed shortly afterward. using acceeptance, and humility of coming back in the program and making a new start, I now have over 10 years of continuous sobriety.


Member: Tom S
Location: Holt, Michigan
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:22:55 AM

Comments

Hi. I am Tom and I am an alcoholic. I just wanted you all to know that this room has been a blessing to me. It is someplace whre I can go at any time and read people who are living one day at a time, just like me. It has made my "quest for sobriety" so much easier. I know that whenever I need to, I can always go to this room and read posts by other people who are in my shoes. It helps, a lot!!!

God Bless and Stay Sober


Member: Mike A
Location: Chicagoland
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:39:28 AM

Comments

Hi there, My name is Mike Alcoholic / addict this topic hits home for me. I have been diagnosed for years with clinical depression I would never adress that issue or at least surrender to it, therefore I had very little cintinued sobriety I did have some dry time. In our book on pg. 133 it rfers to the many gifts of professional guidance we are blessed with. My meds are not a silver bullet I have had to dive into the program as outlined in our book with the help of GOD and my sponsor and countless others my life is steadily getting better and I truely love sobriety. Over the past year of sobriety my med have been reduced and soon may be gone altogether. I atribute this to God and this program! One last thing I think the treatment of alcoholism has come along way and if medcine can help us get a foot hold on the program and sobriety why can it not be looked at as one of the many gifts from our higher power? This does not mean med's replace our program of action based on spiritual princeples it just helps sort the garbage so we can grasp the program. Thank you all for being there for me. Mike


Member: Mike A
Location: Chicagoland
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:40:42 AM

Comments

Hi there, My name is Mike Alcoholic / addict this topic hits home for me. I have been diagnosed for years with clinical depression I would never adress that issue or at least surrender to it, therefore I had very little cintinued sobriety I did have some dry time. In our book on pg. 133 it rfers to the many gifts of professional guidance we are blessed with. My meds are not a silver bullet I have had to dive into the program as outlined in our book with the help of GOD and my sponsor and countless others my life is steadily getting better and I truely love sobriety. Over the past year of sobriety my med have been reduced and soon may be gone altogether. I atribute this to God and this program! One last thing I think the treatment of alcoholism has come along way and if medcine can help us get a foot hold on the program and sobriety why can it not be looked at as one of the many gifts from our higher power? This does not mean med's replace our program of action based on spiritual princeples it just helps sort the garbage so we can grasp the program. Thank you all for being there for me. Mike


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location:
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:47:08 AM

Comments

Catherine Alcoholic~~Grateful to be sober today!

To those who took offense to my post...perhaps you are correct in that it would have been more acceptable to have deleted the 'trust me...' statement and rather posted "in my opinion". Thank you for pointing that out. Plus, I need to remember this is not the Pot. It is a meeting. Thank you. I appreciate your feelings.


Member: Robert B.
Location: Boise  Idaho
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 12:56:30 PM

Comments

Hi. I'm Robert and I am an alcoholic.

For the first 15 years of my sobriety, I was free of medications, and was confidant that I would remain free of them. In the summer of 98 I was hospitalized with the most painful illness I have ever experienced. I was kept on intervenous feeding for over three weeks. Despite the fact that I have never had blood pressure problems, my blood pressure remained dangerously high. It was finally explained to me that the high blood pressure was due to my refusal to accept any pain medication. I finally turned my sobriety over to God, and accepted treatment for the pain. I have had to return to the hospital a few times as this is a chronic disease. I am no longer trying to manage my treatment or my recovery-- it is all in God's hands these days. I either trust God to work through my doctors, or I do not.

The hardest part was admitting I was wrong.

Peace Robert


Member: angelo b
Location: nunavut
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 2:43:29 PM

Comments

The best "answer" I have heard on the topic of anti-depressants was given by one of my sponsors some years ago. It goes like this, "Whatever helps until you get to do the steps." Please stay alive and please keep coming back. God bless, Angelo


Member: LA Woman (and no I will not disclose my real name cuz it ain't your business)
Location: from AOL Land
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 4:56:05 PM

Comments

To Perry A: You seem to be both a doctor and a legal know it all! Your little dissertation on the medical profession and the law is for whose benefit? Yours or ours? Not Impressed! In other words stop feeding the f___g fuel.

Everyone here needs to get over themselves, including you Perry and leave the doctor from Florida alone. It sure smells like a double standard is going on here. It is okay for all of the alcoholic non medical professionals to state their opinions about the meds issue but let someone who is a professional open their mouth and you all go biserk and start with the accusations! What the hell is with that?

Don't bother to answer that because I am sure I will receive a deluge of insults after this anyway. What I am saying here is that a good many of you need to learn to practice one of basic principle that we all learn in this program. Live and Let Live. It is obvious that there is not much of that going on in here.


Member: John Doe
Location: Nebraska
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 6:37:03 PM

Comments

My name is NOT really John Doe but I am a recovering drunk. I wasnt going to write but I could not resist after reading all the goings on here.

I guess all I want to say is this 'did anybody ever consider that the doctor ((JIM)) from FL. did not use his real name?' And if he didnt, so what? I am really shocked that instead of allowing this man his right to state his opinion and his right not reveal his true identity (I believe that is called anonymity and is also a part of our program name) you all just jumped on the 'lets bash and discredit this guy band wagon.' And why? Because you didn't like what he said? What purpose did all of your bashing serve?

Tim V, Bon C, Catherine W and Perry A: I thank God that you do not represent all of AA. Your attempts to discredit this man only serve to show many of us how sick we can all be if we remain in our heads and not our hearts.

To Stanley B and LA Woman, thanks for showing JIM some compassion and that there is more to this great thing we are blessed with. It's called sobriety.

To JIM, the truth is that most of us do get better. I hope you will share with us again and not let a few discontents discourage your future participation.


Member: DRTIM V
Location: Ur-anus
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 7:01:46 PM

Comments

Tom in Asia, The Big Book talks about people in remote places having meetings by mail and that it worked for them. Staying in touch with other alcoholics is very important if you are to recover, so they say, and I agree. So do everything you can, perhaps you can START a meeting, I'm sure if you don't know how to do that the NY office can help Write to them atPO box 459, Grand Central Station New York NY 10163. Maybe I'm out of date but got that out of guess where, the Big Book, Anyway if you post an address I'll bet you'll receive at least one big book if not a hundred, and you can be a spreader of the word in that area, look around you, arent there others who need help? You outlined the three choices well, and I think you made the right choice, seems youre thinking is clear, and in a moment of clarity you can make the choices that will lead to a lifetime of sobriety. It's not been EASY for me, but it is worth it. Can't even imagine these days taking a drink...also know well that alcohol is cunning and bathling and has patience....i don't want to drink...YET. So I need to keep on going to F2F meetings, the very minimum starting and continuing thing to do. Thanks for letting me Share.


Member: Chris S
Location: Dallas TX
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 7:26:49 PM

Comments

I've been sober over 10 years now. As far as the topic concering using outside meds. AA is a program of rigorous honesty and a persoanl program. If a person can use WHATEVER and be honest with themselves that it's ok, it's no ones business. We are not here to tell ppl what to do. We encourage ppl to get better not GOOD! If a person is not honest they don't usually stay around. AA is self cleaning. Dont waste time and energy worrying about what others are doing


Member: ron
Location: windy
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 7:29:21 PM

Comments

Hi Ron here - alcoholic some of us have other medical problems that are related or non related to acoholism. once knew a man that had some problems with depression. I believe they were problems he may have had prior to his alcohol. per the advice of his sponsor and against his doctors. the sponsor told the man he should be totally clean. a few days later he found out that his father had cancer and not long to live. not on the program long enough to cope. he got drunk came home got the shotgun and shot the house up to the tune of about 50 rounds and even took a shot or two at the police. he did some time for this action. I often wondered if he would have been on his anti depression drug if he would have got so down that he drank. I will never give advice in this area but I will help in the area where I have been (alcohol) the best advice I seen yet is from Angelo and that very thoughtfull sponsor he had. What ever it takes to get to the meetings and work the steps.


Member: MaryJ
Location: WA
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 7:30:19 PM

Comments

Hi,

I'm Mary and an alcoholic. I am on several medications and they help. Everyone is different and one has to find competent medical help when they need it. If people are subject to this type of addiction AND they are honest with themselves and their doctors, it shouldn't be a problem


Member: Bruce A.
Location: Crowsnest,pa
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 8:33:54 PM

Comments

Hi Bruce A. An alcoholic, Good topic. In the big book it talks about getting outside help. If we need outside help we should have it. To use drugs under a well informed doctor's prescribing is what this means, beside other things. I sponsor people who have other problems. They do use psycho-tropic drugs and we are glad they do. I wouldn't want to see them without them. If I ever need outside help I am glad it is there. Thanks BOB LOVE ya all,Bruce A.


Member: Toddy N
Location: Ruidoso Downs New Mexido
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 8:45:28 PM

Comments

Hi guys, I'm Toddy and I'm an alcoholic. I love this topic about meds and AA. I take pain meds,(yes, narcotic ones) on a regular basis. I have been made to feel like I'm doing something wrong by doctors, nurses, and a sponsor at one time who was"scared to death" for me to have to take the medicine. So I came to the conclusion to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT about what I have to take. I don't tell doctors anymore that I'm an alcoholic, they discriminate! If I'm in pain and am unable to take the NSAIDS I want to be able to take the narcotic meds that work. I've had doctors "scared" to give me narcotics because they were afraid I'd start drinking again or maybe take the meds as a substitute. I've heard,"Well, with your history, I cannot prescribe..." way too many times. I sometimes would find myself considering taking a drink to alleviate the pain if I couldn't take prescription narcotics, thankfully I didn't! What would the doctor rather, that I take something he prescribes or start drinking again and turn into a raving lunatic? Because that's what would happen if I tried drinking to stop hurting, believe me! However, since I am able to have a compassionate doctor who does prescribe pain pills for me when I need them I don't have to worry about other means to stop the pain. I wonder if a doctor feels better prescribing narcotics to a practising alcoholic??? I'm 7 years sober and doing quite well, thank you, and still taking the pain meds I need. I guess if they were going to make me drink again it would've happened by now! So tell your doctor if you want, I don't anymore because I am not able to get what I need because I'm saying to him in a way,"I'm an alcoholic so that makes me irresponsible in your eyes so you'd better not prescribe anything that may make me feel better, I may like it so much I'll have to have a few drinks along with it!" How stupid is that? I feel that in this case for me I keep my sobriety to myself works better. A doctor can see if he even takes the time to read my medical history that on the line that asks how much alcohol I consume the answer is 0. If he wants to ask about this I'll just say it doesn't agree with me, which is the truth. Thank God there are drugs out there designed to help people, too bad there's so many doctors out there afraid of the DEA or the feds or who knows who that won't even prescribe narcotics no matter what if you're alcoholic! Thanks a lot. PS, this is getting to be like a chat room with all the little entries! A bad chat room. We all get to share, no need to jump on someone for that!


Member: Susan B.
Location: KY
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 9:01:29 PM

Comments

You guys are really tripping me out!!!!! Can I first ask you this....do you know someone who is not an alkie that is on anti's?? Do you know how many people that don't drink...are depressive and have taken their lives because of it?? Depression is a totally separate issue than alcoholism. Yes, it is true that alkies get depressed and may mistake it for "Clinical" or even "Manic". This is nothing to fuck around with you guys...you should not even be discussing it on here. It has no relevance to being sober what so ever!!! Anti-depressants DO NOT GET YOU HIGH!! They are for chemically embalanced people who don't have the same chemistry as another person. To tell them they are not sober is a load of horse shit!!! IF they are not drinking......they are sober. Leave this subject to the specialists and let the rest of us stick to this deal of getting sober! That's what we are here for...not to make judgement on somone else because they take anti's. Common some of you people have some compassion on something you know nothing about.

Did you guys read Glenn's post about Dan F....Dan F. was a manic depressive first...then he was an alkie....he remained sober for a few years....he was put on Lithium(which is prescribed for manic depressive people)...let me explain...you are either really high on life or your about to friggin slit your wrist......doesn't matter if you life is going smooth as silk...you got the world by the tail or not.....the final outcome is when you reach that "high" which is not drug or alcohol induced"...you will come down...you come down so hard and bad that you cannot even imagine....this happens to people that do not...have never, ever used alcohol or any other kind of substance...I have witnessed it!!!! What would you say to these people???? Do the 12 steps?? I think I would laugh at your ass!!!

You people need to stick with the business of staying sober and leave the depression issue alone, as the good Dr. said so as not to confuse anyone else who's life might be on the line because of something "we" or "others say"....

So I suggest we get off this topic and go with Joe's topic of 'HOW TO SURVIVE A LOSS". Anyone else second that motion???

I suggest getting back to the topic of "How We Handle Losses In Our Lives".

God Bless,

Susan B.


Member: Chris G.
Location: Charlotte, NC
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 9:07:02 PM

Comments

Hi I'm Chris and I'm an alcoholic.

I have had several people who know me well suggest that I take anti-depressants. I never have because I fear that I am not "being real" or dealing with what I'm "supposed to". That my sobriety would somehow be "artificial".

Of course in my mind it is perfectly ok for anyone else to take antidepressants if they help. But my grandiosity, arrogance, pride (whatever) makes me think that I have to hold myself to some "higher level" and "do it right". Hopefully you hear in this dialogue that I know that I am wrong and see only a few of my many character defects that are at work here. I am driven by "a hundred forms of fear and self-delusion".

Anyway, I only have 55 days so should probably just be listening, but after reading so much felt compelled to share.

Thanks for a place to get some "program" while I am in a bad spot at home & thanks for a topic that I have thought about many times.

His Peace, Love Joy & Faith to you all!


Member: Susan B.
Location:
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 9:51:47 PM

Comments

There was a point I forgot to make in my last post.....Dan F., who commited suicide was sober for several years. He quit taking his anti-depressants because it caused him to gain weight. Now, can you say that it was alcohol that made him depressed after several years of being sober. OR Is there some truth that it's an inheritant disease. Please, don't confuse anybody else with this shit. It may well indeed cost a life~~~~~~~~~


Member: Monica H.
Location: Carmel, CA
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 10:27:15 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Monica and I am an alcoholic and and addict. Tonight I would like to remind everyone about our traditions. In the 12 x 12 it talks about not sending away anyone whether they are alcoholic and still drinking, or an alcoholic who need outside help and medication to remain sane. They tried once to say no to a member who fought and fought and finally reminded the group that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. The outside stuff should be between a sponsor, the alcoholic, his higher power, and his/her doctor. I am a manic-depressive, I suffer from PTSD, I am a survivor of all five forms of child abuse, and so on. If I didn't have the help of stabilizing medications along with AA I might still be out there drinking and using to cover my pain. Remember our drinking is but a symptom. May the peace of your higher power be always with you. Thanks for letting me share.


Member: I can play this game too.
Location:
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:10:41 PM

Comments

Susan B, LA Woman, John Doe, etc.

Take the time to really read the posts rather than jump to judgement so quickly. Have you not disregarded the traditions with your ranting as well? Your need to retailiate? And what foul language...you kiss your mom with that mouth? Tsk, tsk,...shame on you!


Member: Catherine W  aka  ramonacat
Location: Ramona, CA
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:23:55 PM

Comments

Catherine here...alcoholic...

I read more of this controversial topic tonight and I am back to simply reiterate my amends. I was out of line to speak as I did to our Dr. Friend. I personally apologize to Jim. I also apologize to the group as a whole for adding fuel to the fire. This is a meeting site and you are correct in stating the traditions to me. The subject carries great passion for me. That is real, not an excuse, but there is a time and a place for those things. This is neither. Again I apologize. I do value the Program as it saved my life and I will practice more dilagently the traditions that keep us unified.

Thank you all for your positive and even negetive way of pointing out my need for some more growth in this area. I am sincere in this, as w/out the mirror of those around me, I may not see what I need to change.

Don't drink no matter what! Its an amazing fact that if you don't drink you can't get drunk!!


Member: Disgusted
Location: Just one more time
Date: 3/31/00
Time: 11:36:40 PM

Comments

Let me guess "I can play this game too" sounds alot like Tim V. But we are just a bunch of dumb drunks and don't know anything. Oh and let us not forget that Tim V knows it all!


Member: Susan B.
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 12:53:10 AM

Comments

Dear, "I can play".....yeah I kiss my mom with this same mouth.....she has loved me through "sickness and in health".....has your mom?? Is that why you feel you have to be so disruptive?

Anyway back to changing the subject to losses we have to survive...I had lost my first husband of 6 years to another woman....man that hurts!!!! Anyway, when it first happened I tried to drink myself to death and when that didn't work and I knew the booze was a taking me down. I went to a counselor...I could barely walk....barely could get showered....barely could get out of bed....this was 2 weeks after I had quit drinking....I had promised him I would get myself togther if he would quit seeing "her"....well I got myself together...and he didn't quit seeing her..so I drank myself into an endless stupor....I was on the edge of suicide.....I still loved him....for what, I dunno!! But, the panic attacks and the depression kept my drinking alive and fermented. I went to see a Therapist who put me on Prozac. After two weeks.Oh my God......what a difference..I was finally able to get my shit together and get rid of the no good bastard.......if I had not h ave gotten that help I would probably still be with him today..or dead..except for he died at the ripe old age of 36 from a congenial heart disease the poor bastard!!!!!! And yes, I'll kiss my mother with these lips and she will whole heartedly agree with me....Today>>>I am sober...but I don't think I would have gotten through those times without an anti-d......my family has a history of it...I just think when this one thing happened..I unleashed the monster and he won't go away without meds.....goodnight & Godbless


Member: Chuck M
Location: Alberta
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 1:30:18 AM

Comments

I'm Chuck, an alcoholic.

When I came into AA I discovered that my thinking and opinions were flawed, that's why step 2 says I must be restored to sanity [ rational, wholesome thinking, mental health ]

Another lesson I was taught was that all my answers are in the BB. If I can't find them there it is because the problem is not correctly defined [a hold over from my flawed thinking pattern].

Can anyone tell me where I can find, in the BB, where I am told to adviseother alcoholics about medications?

Peace and Serenity


Member: anne_g
Location: midwest
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 1:43:30 AM

Comments

Hi, everyone. First time here. What a discussion on meds. or no meds. I have learned through the years to only share my experience, strength and hopes.

I was one of those who came to Alcoholics Anonymous many years ago medicated. The last five years of my drinking was spent in and out of hospitals, being diagnosed everything but an alcoholic. What a blessing when I did arrive in AA and found out what the problem was. Me. Me, and my selfish way of life. The only problem I faced, how could I ever get sober. "God could and would if he were sought".

I really wanted a different way of life, I wanted to see if the 12 Steps could offer me the psychic change. I went off the medication. So far it has worked for me.

Do I tell people to go off medication. Not on your life, I'm not a doctor. If people want to get off, they've talked with their doctor, they've talked with their sponsors, they've talked with their families, and most importantly they have talked with God, then I share my experience.

Depression, was not even a term I could use to describe what I felt like when first getting sober. You can't live the kind of life I lived,and not feel dark shame, and dark remorse. The women who felt alone with all her dirty little secrets was exactly the women who needed to get sober.

I also believe in untreated alcoholism. I've seen it. I've spoken with people in the program who are experiencing it. Is it depressing? They have never taken the beautiful gift that has been given to us, 4th and 5th, 8 and 9. Have I watched them try and medicate it away?

When women come to me for help, I can only give them my story. If my experience is not what will help them, I try to find the help they need. I would be a fool if I didn't believe some of us needed medication, but in the same note, I can't believe everyone who takes medication for their emotions does need it. If I did, my story would be false.

In the end, how many of us could be judged on our motivations? If we were, Alcoholics Anonymous would be a much smaller place. My only hope for anyone entering AA is they find God, so they don't ever have to live alone again.

Thank you for letting me share. I'm just another member trying to save my life.


Member: Yo...Is anybody In Thee??
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 1:47:55 AM

Comments

Chuck, it doesn't, asshole, That's why some of "us" are trying to get off this topic. But, it's a-holes like you that keep bringing it up. Therefore, we have to keep on dragging this shit .........dude!!! .


Member: Bob
Location: WA
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 2:52:06 AM

Comments

I'm bob, alchholic. All I can add to this topic is ask the individual who is saying that no prescription drugs of the types this meeting started with is as follows. "Are you a doctor?" and are you qualified to make this decision? I've seen what happens when someone follows this kind of suggestion and its results.


Member: tonydaduck
Location: U.S. of A.
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 7:09:06 AM

Comments

Being new here,i have a question. Is it the intent of this forum to have a"new" topic every week? If this be so,is it the intent of this forum to have a topic suggested by participants? If any of this be so,can i make a suggestion? My suggestion is: We discuss our "GAINS". Is it agreeable(by the "Powers-to-Be" and just us "Little-Folks") to have "GAINS" as a topic? Thanks for listening.


Member: Discouraged
Location: looking for sobriety
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 7:15:44 AM

Comments

Some of you make AA seem so unappealing to those like me who are investing the options out there to help me stop drinking. I am on Day#3, 72 hours new to AA and I am honestly wondering what is worse--dealing with the booze problem or turning my life over to a program with the likes of many of you.

If this is AA than I am certain to pick-up a drink sooner than later because this is pathetic.


Member: Jennie
Location: Australia
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 7:33:05 AM

Comments

Hi, Jennie Alcoholic here. Discouraged, there is a lot of good sobriety on this site but sometimes you have to scroll past a few to get to where the recovery is. Please do not judge AA from some comments you read. Take what you need and leave the rest. Ring AA in your town and try and get to a meeting. There you will find all the loving support you deserve. It is hard but you can do it. Good Topic choice "GAINS" Thanks Tonyaduck. Happy sober 24. God Bless.


Member: Pete E
Location: Buffalo
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 8:09:12 AM

Comments

Pete, alcoholic,

Discouraged, This is by no means a clear picture of AA. It is easy for people to be hard-liners, for or against, on any subject and equally easy for the ego to prevail. Especially when one doesn't have to actually look others in the eye. Many of the people on this site wouldn't have the nerve or even the inclination to say some of these things to someone else in person. This forum can be helpful, and it often is, but if you want a clear picture of AA, go to a real meeting. Although I follow this occassionally, I often do it for entertainment more than for enrichment. And sometimes my ego gets out of hand too. Call the Central AA office in your area and find out where the next face to face meeting is. Things will look very different. AA works. It really does. Alcoholism is a very real and devastating illness. Your nightmare can end right now. Look for the solution from REAL people. I have been sober in AA for over 5 years and still go to 4-5 meetings every week. Get a real start. Then come back here and listen, share, and enjoy.

Keep the faith,

Pete


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 8:26:01 AM

Comments

Wrong again.

I only use my real name. But I don't understand the stir here. We are here to help alcoholics. If you like what they say or if you don't.

The idea is to carry AA's message, if you can't resist inserting your own opinion, OK. But recognize it for what it is. It is not AA.

I still think that the reference to the AA pamphlet is the best suggestion.


Member: Kenneth
Location: Columbia, SC
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 8:45:15 AM

Comments

Hello, I'm an alcoholic named Kenneth. I'd like to find out about online support for staying sober one day at a time.


Member: Merril
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 10:23:51 AM

Comments

Here for the 3rd time. Want to say to {Catherine W} that your graceful display of humility is appreciated. Want to say to {tonydaduck} it is not yet the beginning of a new week and we do not arbitrarily just change the topic no matter how heated it gets. Want to say to {Tim V} will you please stop posting, it is clearly stated at the top of this website "Please One Post Per Week" and you have already shared enough. I for one am sick of hearing what you have to say especially when you make your negative accusations then make derogatory comments about those who need to take medications. I did not appreciate your statement implying that you have better sobriety because you do not take meds. And even after all of that you come on here again and put on the innocent act and state that all you are doing is attempting to help other alcoholics.

Want to say that the issue of taking meds is none of my business but could very well be a necessity for some people who are stricken with other diseases outside of alcoholism. I liked hearing what {Chris G} wrote because his/her (sorry I don't know if you are male of female) share really demonstrates how we can take our own disease of alcoholism and use it to convince ourselves we need no other assistance. This program of AA was designed to assist with our disease of alcoholism and nothing more or less. It should not be used as a way to discourage others from taking medications that could potentially save their lives. I love this program. I will not sit here and say that I love everyone in this program because that would be a big fat lie, but I DO LOVE what this program has taught me and the great gifts I have received. I do not take meds but I encourage those out there who struggle with other diseases outside of alcoholism to seek additional assistance and keep coming back because AA is the medication you need for your alcoholism.

Thank you for letting me be here today and I look forward to our next controversial topic.

Merril


Member: Kat L.
Location: Austin, TX (for now : - )
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 10:30:46 AM

Comments

Hi Everybody. My name is Kat Littlecreek, and I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict. I want to share with you my "brother" Russell, and a part of his story.

I met Russell in a meeting in Topanga Canyon in 1985. We were very close in our sobriety dates back then. We became friends, and he became a part of my recovery "family." Our relationship developed in many directions - "in sickness and in health." He called my significant other "sponsor" and we all walked down our sobriety roads together.

A couple of years later Russell made a decision to have back surgery, as he had injured his back while working and his doctor suggested that that was the way for him to go. John (my significant other) and I walked through the surgery with Russell, and we were the first faces he saw as he came up out of the anesthetic. I will never forget the look of agony and pain in Russell's eyes. When he came home from the hospital he came home to our house, and we took care of him for three weeks, tending his wounds on his back, and dispensing his medications to him. We had all been taught in AA that if there was a need for "mind altering chemicals" that it was a wise thing to do to have someone as the "gatekeeper" in order to avoid the possibility of overmedicating while in a "mind altered condition."

Life went on, Russell got better . . . or so it seemed. The truth became that his back never healed correctly. At around 5 years sober Russell "went out" on pain meds, and didn't come back to us for several years. When he returned he had grown his story - right back to the bottle and IV drug usage. Once again, he got sober. . . . struggling with the pain most all of the time.

Russell wanted to "stay sober" - and tried "to control" his medications. As with so many of us, Russell, in early sobriety, thought he "knew what was best." He carried trememdous pain, grief and anger with him everywhere he went, had much fear of opening up and sharing with others, had no trust of his fellow human beings, and certainly very little in his higher power. Many people tried to help Russell to take advantage of the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous and the Steps, and to "learn to help himself". That wasn't to be.

My brother Russell died the end of last year, with again 90 days sober. He died of a heart attack - or was it a "broken heart"? I loved my brother, and feel a great loss . . . I don't have any "answers" as to what was "right" and what was "wrong" - I only know that I believe one of the principles to my core that you people have taught me: "that there are no mistakes in God's Universe ~ that all things are in perfect order", and today I choose to believe that all is right with the life that my brother led, and I bless him for his help and contribution to many of my days of sobriety along our way. I was the lucky one: I have been able to stay sober, one day at a time since those days back in May of 1985, by the Grace of a Loving Creator, the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous and many God-graced people along my road.

I wish all of you a beautiful day. Thank you for my life, and thanks for letting me share.


Member: Tim V
Location: Poconos
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 1:50:31 PM

Comments

Merril,

Take what you can use and leave the rest.

The little bar on the side is for scrolling. Whenever you see my name, just pass on by. Buy the way, I did not say anything or imply anything about people who take medicines. I take medicine myself under the direction of my doctor.

I don't judge anyone's sobriety (unlike you), including my own. If you don't drink today, you are as sober as anyone else. Rather, I'm just grateful to be sober today, and I'm willing to go to any length to get it.

PS "relief never came by confessing the sins of others", Bill W.


Member: Guess Who
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 2:36:38 PM

Comments

TIM V. SHUT UP!!! HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO TELL YOU TO KNOCK IT OFF!

WE DONT WANT TO HEAR ANYMORE FROM YOU!!!

GOT IT?


Member: Sick of Tim V Too
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 2:55:56 PM

Comments

I can't believe all of this nonsense. I have to agree with crowd here Tim V, you are out of control and like the many who have told you again and again I also wish you would just disappear. But it is clear that you are much more interested in being right so we are doomed to see you post again, and again, and again, and again, and again and.....

Oh and by the way, you say you never implied anything about people who take medicine and that you take medicine yourself....let me direct you to one of your miriad of posts on 3/29/00 where you very clearly state and I quote here......

"and I won't use pills to help me through the pain."

Gosh, you mean you weren't implying that people on meds do it to get through the pain? And which is it Tim V you said you don't use pills a few days ago and now you say you do take medicine? You need to get your story straight before you post again as I am sure you will.


Member: Laila L
Location: Turku , Finland
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 2:58:28 PM

Comments

hi i'm Laila, alcoholica and codependent

I try to make sure that my doctor understands that i'm an alcoholic, and should avoid certain types of medication. I've once been given the wrong kind of pain medication, gave me a very bad hangover. taught me to be careful and make sure the doctor understands that alcoholism is a disease called chemical dependency.

That's my experience with medication Love, Laila DOS 2nd Oct 1996 email oct296@hotmail.com


Member: Ernie W
Location: Botswana
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 3:11:01 PM

Comments

My, My,

There are a lot of angry little people out there,


Member: Geri W
Location: Ohio
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 3:47:59 PM

Comments

Tradition Ten

" Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy".

So whatever I (you) think about meds/sobriety, it is our OWN opinion and not AA's. If I thought my sobriety was in jepoardy, I'd consult with a physician who specializes in the treatment of chemical dependency. Now that's an opinion I'd listen to. And I'd recommend that you do the same - it's too dangerous not to consult with the trained person before making uninformed decisions about an area that could result in death.


Member: A Friend
Location:
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 6:53:31 PM

Comments

It is clear that there is far too much "inventory taking" going on here this week. It will be nice when the topic changes...but you folks attacking Tim V really are out of line...this is a meeting format. Take it to the CoffeePot page. Isn't that what the Cpot is for? Duke it out over there. Let the meeting be a meeting.

Tim V You are not helping with your repeated posting in self-defense...which is not necessary. We know you are ok. Just let it go, please.


Member: Debbie M.
Location: OH
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 7:21:30 PM

Comments

Hi, my name is Debbie and I'm an alcoholic. This is my first time to this site and I really appreciate the topic on the taking of RX meds during sobriety. During my first two years of sobriety, I lost two close family members to cancer. The 'pink cloud' was wearing off and the depression kicked in with a vengeance. My sponsor suggested strongly that I go see a doctor and I went on antidepressants for a short while. Several years later (still sober) the depression came back and stayed. Went back to a doctor and was put on the newer antidepressants (Prozac family) and stayed on them for several years. They really helped. After about four years, I talked to my doctor about going off of them. Both my doctor and my sponsor agreed that it might be worth a try just to ease my own mind about whether or not I really needed to be on them. I went off them for about six months and thoughts of suicide and using started to creep back into my thinking again. I'm back on antidepressants for the last two months and feel so much better (by the way, I just passed into my fourteenth year of continuous sobriety just to let you know that these problems are not just unique to newcomers).

The bottom line is that if I am 'succumbing' to my illness (depression), I have more of a tendency for 'stinkin' thinkin'' than if I am receiving proper treatment under a physician's care. It's also important to remember, though, not to forget to receive 'treatment' for your other illness - alcoholism. Keep going to meetings (esp. f2f), talk to your sponsor regularly and read the Big Book.

Thanks again for the topic. I don't hear it too much anymore in f2f meetings - lots of us don't want to bring it up because it means, basically, admitting that we are either thinking about or are taking meds. Then some people we see all the time start making judgmental comments about the quality of our sobriety, among other things.

As far as the negative comments on this board: Everybody is entitled to their own opinions and all of us are at different stages of sobriety. While there is no substitute for f2f meetings and sponsorship, this site can certainly be another useful tool to continuous sobriety. I think that I have seen many more positive comments here than negative ones.

Thanks for letting me share.


Member: Kathy R.
Location: New Jersey, USA
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 9:48:48 PM

Comments

Hi my name is Kathy and I am an alcoholic and am new to this particular message board but not new to AA. I cannot give any input to the topic as I am not a doctor and this is an outside issue to the individual with the problems other than alcohol. The most wisdom I could hope to impart here is I like sharing about how to stay sober One Day at a Time which to me is the name of the game in AA. I agree with the comments of Sarah B. and Geri W. Discussing anyone's medicinal intake, even if prescribed is not what I am here for nor do I have the expertise to discuss that. I feel a lot of anger on this message board. I just take what I need and leave the rest. Yours in the fellowship.


Member: Dan H
Location: Glennallen Alaska
Date: 4/1/00
Time: 10:36:52 PM

Comments

GEE !!!! I think I'll come back next week when I can come here to feel good again. I'll say a prayer for all those suffering through all this. Love you all and hope you can find the serenity I have in this wonderful AA thing.


Member: Beloved
Location: Miami
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 12:55:26 AM

Comments

Hi family. Good topic, but controversial. I didn't get on meds until I came into recovery and until then booze was my meds. After coming in I was institutionalized 3 times in my first 3 yrs. Baker-acted once. Diagnosis-Manic Depression with Psychotic features. I stayed on meds for the first 6 yrs and fought it tooth and nail because I didn't want to admit I needed them. Eventually I weaned myself off of them slowly against my doctor's wishes. Mainly because of the sleeping pill he had me on. Fortunately 2 yrs later I can say I don't need the sleeping pill any longer and sometimes get depressed but not to the extreme I once was. I still fight with sleepless nights. The second time I went in I was 12 stepped and the lady told me that until I start working the program and look myself in the mirror I didn't stand a chance at recovery or life. I didn't believe her until I was Baker-acted. Today I can say I live life on life's terms and deal with it. Good and bad. What I will say to those on meds is what works for me and others doesn't necessarily have to work for you. I have known people who have commited suicide becuz of getting off meds. I had the thoughts and even stopped driving becuz I thought I would kill myself in my car. Search your heart and discuss it with your doctor and if you really need it don't fight it - some of us are sicker than others and for a while I was sicker than others but today I know there are others that are sicker than me. There is hope and meds are there for those who need them not those who want them. Most of all be honest with yourself when you tell your doc your symptoms. My docs gave me mine according to what I told him and if my motives weren't right I would still be a pill popper using narcotics and addicted. Instead I was honest with my doc.


Member: aa friend
Location: here
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 1:01:54 AM

Comments

Thank God this week is all most over!

We really are a good bunch ...swear! Just that some topics are, by nature, extremely sensitive while others are simple and full of hope. Guess we know where this one falls.

One more day...its almost over...one more day!


Member: ANONYMOUS
Location: AA USA
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 1:20:38 AM

Comments

I haven't been to this site in a while but the last time I came there was none of this bickering going on. What happened to PRINCIPLES BEFORE PERSONALITIES??? and LIVE AND LET LIVE??? Looks like the AA Patrol is in full force and instead of carrying the message some of you are carrying the mess. Come on people we represent Alcoholics Anonymous and as members who have been around for a while who should have QUALITY OF SOBRIETY instead of just quantity you are setting a lousy example for the newcomers. Keep your egos on the outside of the meeting and represent AA like it should be represented, giving everyone their right to be who they are and STOP TAKING INVENTORIES.... and yes I am excercising my right to anonymity...


Member: Corinne
Location: Camino
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 4:01:55 AM

Comments

Good Late Evenin' ((DMers))!! Corinne, Alcoholic here, there & nowhere in particular!!

Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when the Discussion page was rowdier than the ol' Coffee Pot!! I don't post on this page very often anymore, but have noticed a couple of times in recent months that there seems to be much confusion about when the new topic gets started. So far as I can understand it, if you get here sometime on Sunday, not specifically at 12 midnight EST, and the page appears empty, that means you are the first one here, and you get to select the topic. Many times, someone seems to try to start a new topic at the end of the old week's worth of posts, but when the techs clear out the page, it automatically wipes out the old week. So, only post a new topic when the page is entirely empty and you're the first one in. Also, a few times, I've started a new topic and someone else was doing it at the exact same time, so it would seem which ever topic is the very first one at the top of the clean page, is the one we go with for the week.

As for medications - two words - "as prescribed." This very question was asked by a newcomer at our Friday night meeting, and those were the exact words of the majority of folks who spoke up on the issue - all in unison, I might add, which was pretty funny to witness!

In my personal experience, I made the unfortunate decision, before getting sober this time, to discontinue my anti-depressant medications abruptly. I experienced 2 mild pressure seizures, insomnia which lasted for weeks, as well as severe muscle and joint stiffness which lasted almost 9 months. These are common withdrawal symptoms when certain psychotropic meds are not decreased properly, due to something called a "half-life."

When I was taking the medications, and while they were working properly, no one could have convinced me that I did not need them. There did come a time when they went haywire in my system, and I had to go back in for treatment under medical supervision. I was taken off of one of those meds entirely and learned that my doctor was overprescribing - surprising that my pharmacist did not take notice of this! Eventually, I simply desired to be medication-free and did not understand how serious these medications could upset our bodies if stopped abruptly, so I thought I should address this very serious side of the issue tonight.

As for pain medications, I have lived with almost constant pain for over 20 years from Hepatitis C and Fibromyalgia. My liver can't handle too much anymore, and because I have also had bleeding ulcers, I cannot take Aspirin or NSAIDS, therefore, I personally have to be very careful what I put inside myself. My sponsor happens to be very anti-drug oriented, but I have discussed my usage of my prescribed non-narcotic pain meds with her, and she and I have a good understanding of where I am which is that I am working the 12 Steps in my life for my alcoholism, and I take a minimum of pain meds at bedtime, so I can sleep through most of the nights semi-pain free. These are two separate issues, in that I don't use these pills to get a high or to avoid feeling my emotions, or to avoid doing the work necessary in my recovery to enjoy a happy, joyous & free sobriety.

Again, if you are taking any medications, please do not stop taking them without discussing how to decrease them properly on the advice of your prescribing physician. Consider this, many of these meds are strong enough to change your eyesight - do you really want to mess around with the dosage yourself?

One last thought - I also take an herbal supplement now that helps with anxiety - Kava Kava. I started taking 450mg per day and now only take it every other or every third day. It really works, but should never be used in conjunction with certain medications. Also, in my first sober stint, I found that the amino acid Phenylalanine, or Tyrosine, was very helpful for my then-situational depression of stopping alcohol and cocaine simultaneously. My then-sponsor suggested that I research these amino acids thoroughly and never advised me one way or the other.

This is really all I am qualified to do as an AA member who also has to deal with depression & anxiety, which is to share my experience. As recovering alcoholics who are also very multi-faceted folks, many of us do have depression as an additional condition, but each of our bodies are very different, so our doctors always are the ones we should put our trust in to treat any additional conditions we may face in our sobriety.


Member: john m
Location: Hermitage, TN
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 5:18:27 AM

Comments

Hello beloved members. I would have to agree with the previous submission, because as a first time entrant onto this site, it seems there has been a collective loss of memory pertaining to the traditions. My sobriety date is 7-29-98 fyi, and I am relatively new to the web, so my opinion may not carry the weight of the "old-timers" on this page. Never the less, I will share my experience, strenght and hope on the topic.

If I were to to go to a physician with my alcoholic thinking and selfish, self-centeredness, along with self-pity, remorse, suicidal and homicidal tendencies, and leanings toward depression, I am almost positive I could leave his office with at least one prescription (if allowed to leave at all). Conversely, if I take all those symptoms listed above, grab a Big Book and allow another alcoholic access to my inner-most self, then apply the twelve steps to my life, I am equally sure that most, if not all of those symptoms will be relieved.

The Book allows for us alkies to seek outside help, but only after honest application of the twelve steps.

I don't intend to suggest that I can speak for anyone but myself, but I wonder how many of those alcoholics that take psycho-active and others drugs for their emotional troubles have honestly surrendered themselves to the program?

Does "easier-softer way" ring any bells?

I am re-reading this entry, and the thought occurs that I am clinging to a hang-nail of sanity as I write this. I have just moved to a new town, and I desparately need to connect with someone in order to complete my stepwork.

I guess that the thought of some pill that would relieve my anxiety and insecurities would be welcome at this point.

As my significant other reads this over my shoulder, I realize that any reliance on people is futile, and that God is the one who can deliver serenity.

Thanks for letting me share


Member: Kimberly WW
Location: Austin, TX
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 8:41:22 AM

Comments

My name is Kimberly and I am an alcoholic/addict. I can share my experience, strength and hope regarding my sobriety and experience with anti-depressants. I was sober 4 years and never a simptom of depression. Thank God, for AA-because I was hit very hard with physical symptoms of fatigue, sleep disturbance, apathy, etc..... If it weren't for AA and my support system I don't know what would have happened. I was able to seek outside help and have been taking anti-depressants for almost 4 years. I am a believer that everything in my life is tied to my recovery-the steps help me to make the best decisions for my health and happiness without taking a drink. I am grateful to have such a program where I don't have to know all of the answers-THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR MEMBERSHIP IS A DESIRE TO QUIT DRINKING. Thank God for all of the support-I love this program and hope that my experience,strength and hope will be helpful to someone. thanks


Member: tonydaduck
Location: U.S. of A.
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 9:36:26 AM

Comments

O.K.,it is SUNDAY and as i understand it a new topic can be suggeste? May i suggest we put this "hot" topic to rest? May i suggest a new topic? If i am within the bounds of the policy of this site i'd like to "SUGGEST" the topic:"GAINS".We just may need a break from all this negativety? To hell with suggestions such as: "losses","medications", or other depressing topics.Yes,they are important topics and do have there place,BUT......can't we take a 7-day holiday from such dark issues??? If my suggestion (of "GAINS") is not appealing....fine,i can accept the rejection.....but please choose a more positive topic for this week. Thanks for your patient listening.


Member: Marv B.
Location: Bedford, Tx.
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 10:44:29 AM

Comments

On the subject of medications in connection with recovery in AA, the only thing I have to offer is the sharing of my personal experience. I came To AA in Minnesota with a desire to stop drinking in 1968. At the time, I had also battling with emotional problems for 4 years prior and was on Tranqulizers and anti-depressants. (I once took 50 100 mg. of Thorazine over a 3 day time frame and I'm alive and able to tell about it.) 3 Highly qualified medical people told me that because of my depression and Anxiety problems, I would need to take medication as long as I live. I came to AA to stop drinking I explained to my sponsor my situation with the medication. He encouraged me to stick around AA and if I'd work the steps, I'd see miracles happen. He never suggested that I should go off the medication. I met a Doctor in AA who was recovering at about the same time I was in my early days. I trusted his medical advice and one day after about 4 months of sobriety, I discontinued medications. After a few weeks without, I had a bout with what seemed like all the worst emotional anxieties and frustrations of my entire lifetime set in. I was afraid that I would end up back in a mental institution and that I would not be able to stay off the pills, that the doctors were right. I spoke with my Doctor friend, Dr. John, in AA and explained how desparately I felt I needed him to prescribe something for me just temporarily until I get through the rough spot. He replied with these words."The human body is a marvelous machine. God Created it that way. When it gets tired enough, it will sleep. It doesn't need chemichals to sedate it. As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, This Too shall pass. Walking! Best excersize you can do. Wear your body down physcially. Walk until you're so tired you sleep. Walk off the anxiety. Prayer! Pray! If you have to grit your teeth and hang on to the mattress and see the sun rise in the morning without sleep... PRAY. It shall pass." That was in about March of 1969. Since then, I've had wonderful jobs, I've owned my own business, I've traveled the world and have met beautiful people everywhere, and I have normal good moods and bad moods. As my sponsor assured me, if I'd stick around, I'd see miracles happen. I spoke with him about that later and he laid a hand on my shoulder and said, "You're one of them." The program worked for me. I'm Free of Alcohol, free of other mood altering drugs, and I still go to meetings.


Member: How/When New Topic Starts
Location: Info Zone
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 12:38:59 PM

Comments

To Tonydaduck & others wanting a new topic:

There seems to be much confusion about when the new topic gets started. So far as I can understand it, if you get here sometime on Sunday, not specifically at 12 midnight EST, and the page appears empty, that means you are the first one here, and you get to select the topic. Many times, someone seems to try to start a new topic at the end of the old week's worth of posts, but when the techs clear out the page, it automatically wipes out the old week.

So, only post a new topic when the page is entirely empty and you're the first one in. Also, a few times, I've started a new topic and someone else was doing it at the exact same time, so it would seem which ever topic is the very first one at the top of the clean page, is the one we go with for the week.


Member: Joe R
Location:
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 2:15:41 PM

Comments

(( tonydaduck)) I have a problem with your comment about the topic of losses. It may seem negative and trivial to you but it is a HUGE deal for me right now. I am in the midst of a tremendous loss in my life and have recently considered (on a number of occassions) taking that step into the land of oblivion (drinking). I NEED some support from others on this and asked kindly last week when the stupid Cyber Techs just wiped everything out. Please don't make comments that demean and dismiss other's like myself who are in dire need of some ES&H around that subject. I really hate to break the news to you, but not everything turns rosey and sweet once we get sober. If you want to talk about gains then by all means do so, but in the meantime DO NOT make light of something as crucial as what I am experiencing today.


Member: Bill W
Location: AA
Date: 4/2/00
Time: 3:57:32 PM

Comments

Joe R: Please drink. You are full of yourself anyway.