Member: JimB.
Location: Planet Earth
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 5:20:01 PM
Progress not Perfection.... How do you (I) live with the imperfections and shortcomings that you (I) still carry into our recoveries. Does having these shortcomings and defects mean that you (I) am not working a thorough enough program? How do you (I) give myself permission to have these human deficiencies and still maintain a valid and real working recovery. How do you (I) maintain progress if we are willing to go to any lengths to maintain our (my) sobriety, but you (I) are still dogged by these same character defects.
Member: John H
Location: Hoosierdom
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 5:27:15 PM
The first thing I have to examine is whether one thing,incident, person or other arouses a negative reaction. If so, that is a case when the question becomes, can or can I not accept it.
If I experience a negative reaction, (especially if I feel uncomfortable, resentful and perhaps angry), then I must determine if God approves the reaction. I must repeat, "God's will, not mine be done" one or more times. My will often is wrong. The 11th Step in the 12/12 book is a reference I seek most often. Patience, dear folks, at the age 0f 84, I still make mistakes.
Stay the course, work the program and things will be better if you stay sober!
Member: kev
Location: our happy home
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 6:21:15 PM
Dear friends, Earlier today a friend came over to share his love with us since all we have been through with gary and the police etc.,he gave us a book that is a daily inspirational,to strengthen what gary has weaken in our spirits. After he left, something spoke to my heart and said that i should come share these words of encouragement with you kind people who have been bruised and battered by gary as well.There is only one thing that caused me to ask your permission first,and that is,though these are not RELIGIOUS writings they do speak often of JESUS. Now there was a time in my life when that would give me the heebee jeebees and after all we,ve been through, that is the last thing we need.So i will wait a couple of days to get your feed back and will leave you with a true story on how Bill felt on the subject of JESUS. When Bill Wilson was asked by one of AA`s CLEVELAND pioneers "what this was that worked so many wonders",Bill pointed to a picture of JESUS at Gethsemane that was over the mantel and said:"THERE IT IS". I look foward to your comments and of being of service in our beautiful fellowship, kev
Member: Margie
Location: L.I.
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 6:45:48 PM
It'sa true that Bill W. would speak of Jesus, this program was based around the spiritual reasonings of The Oxford Group, a Christian study group.
I think it would be great to put it up Kev, all the postive energy you can bring would only benefit us.
This is a spriritual program, and I by no means am a devout Christian. However we could all learn from the teachings of Jesus,and the things he did to help others. That is the spiriual part. What would a man that is the son of God do in a given situation? We are all of God, he is in our hearts, therefore we can do the same. We can try to make this world a better place as best we can. By giving to others what we would have done to us, fosters love and healing to all, in and out of the rooms (step 12).
Sorry I didn't stick to this topic, but I gueass I can say that I have progressed spiritually. I would not even have considered a loving and caring God before I came to AA. I am definitley not perfect, when my will wants to take over I discover it backfires and I have created havoc.
Thank God for AA...Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Christine C.
Location: Cakima, MICHIGAN
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 7:49:32 PM
Christine, Alcoholic
PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION: We don't have to "live" with our shortcomings and imperfections-in our 4th step we recognize Why we drank and in our 5th step we admit to God to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. By sharing with others we let go of our garbage. Having problems is only human, there was one perfect man- and they hung him on a cross, That is why we have sponsers, and the AA fellowship. Also, I heard a saying "P U S H - Pray Until Something Happens" I read somewhere - as long as we are doing the best we can, today, we are progressing from where we were. I try not to dwell on my character defects. I try to turn them into something good- for instance- if I like to browse the web I try to grab the new AA meeting instead of just playing. As long as I don't drink today I am doing God's will. Sometimes 1 minute at a time, Sometimes 1 hour at time, But keep it simple,
1 DAY AT A TIME.
I will pray for you.
Happy to be Clean & Sober! Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Terry G.
Location: Phoenix
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 8:17:34 PM
This is my first on-line meeting.And I am proud to be a member of A.A.I sometimes get frustrated with my character defects too,but the Big Book tells me God will remove those defects that stand in the way of my usefullness.And I find sometimes He thinks I don't have anything to offer.He makes me aware of my defects so I don't get bored.
Member: FrankD
Location: NJ
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 8:40:09 PM
Kev- say what you have to, say what you want to, nobody has to read what is disturbing to them. I call him God, others call him differently, it matters not to me. Share what you need to.
I KNOW I'll never be perfect, so some small progress must content me. Any step forward puts me ahead of where I was.
Strength to all.
drystep@aol.com
Member: Tia
Location: Kössen
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 9:50:42 PM
Hi Jim (and everyone)-good topic. I am Tia and I am an alcoholic. Its been difficult for me to accept how fearful I really am. Therefore when I don't face these things, I do 'unsober' things. I have had to have patience with myself. I've been sober 10 years and I've been as sober as I need to be at any time (though I've been lucky too). I believe we have to find that comfortability in our sobriety, for ourselves. If the defect is really making me miserable then I need to find a reasonable solution. For instance I could not stay in a job where someone asks me everyday if I want a drink and expect my defects to stay in 'control'. Thats riduculous. And I couldn't be in a bad relationship and expect myself to be calm cool and collected. You, your sponsor and sober friends need to decide what is reasonable for you to expect of yourself. I wonder if you might be being too hard on yourself? Character defects will always be there to one extent or another. What I do everyday is pray and meditate (or just sit) in the morning-go to a meeting 4 (or more sometimes) times a week, call my sponsor as much as I (honestly) need to (she will let me know if my judgement is wrong)-read at night a bit, and thank god for being sober another day at night and ask god in the morning that I can help someone-be useful in the day. I also go to therapy which for me has been needed. OH- and call people-work with others as much as possible-honestly I lack in this area. Other than that, I do the best I can every day. If you're making a sincere effort in doing these things, and taking responsibility for yourself you are working a program. This is getting long but I want to say-I've been dogged with defects that sometimes all I can do is hold myself together the best I can. My past comes up to haunt me and I sometimes just maintain and thats it. I've learned to not expect myself to be 'a shining example of sobriety' so to speak. And I'm not too pleasant to be around (but I dont take it out on others either). Sometimes thats honestly the best I can do. I'm still sober so it must be good enough. Good luck Jim.
Member: jessie
Location: salt flats ok
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 10:28:44 PM
if i drink just one i wont get drunk,but i probably wont just drink one though
Member: Judith.L
Location: Melb. Australia
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 10:50:23 PM
Hi,
Judith Alcoholic/Clean today. What a great topic.
My defects, gosh I am not sure that I have really looked at them just yet but I am willing. I like what some one said about 'How would God React', that was what I needed to hear. Because that is what I try to do, when I react to something either with anger or resentment or what ever, I try to think how would God or Jesus or my Higher power respond. I know they would respond with LOVE but hey I am human and I can not always do that. I am not perfect and I am no saint. But today I try to respond with love but also with firmness if this is required and also with respect for MYSELF. For if I respect myself then I will respect another.
And I remember to that Jesus got Angry!!!!
Love & Light, Judith
A very grateful AA member
Member: Eddie B
Location: Miami
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 10:56:48 PM
it's not what you have... but what you do with it that matters!! without our shadow side we would lack reason to practice spiritual principles... why do you think we call it an adventure? because recovery is a journey back to ourselves, it's best not to ask questions you can't answer, trust the process...good night
Member: GRea
Location: In
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 11:10:27 PM
Hi Jim G here and I am an alcoholic and I don't know of any perfect person other than the man I choose to call God, which as for Kev give what you want would love to hear anything you have to say and share with us. We as alcoholics can take what we need and leave the rest. I believe the program itself if we work it will let us progress and it never ever promises we will have a life without sorrow and troubles and all that life is about. The program teaches us to live life on life's terms if we choose to work the program. Thanks for letting me share and another miracle 24 more. One at a time. G
Member: TONYA H
Location: NJ
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 11:20:18 PM
WHAT A GREAT TOPIC I NEED TO REMBER THAT I;M NOT PERFECT I;T PAINFUL AT TIMES BUT THAT LIFE YOU SEE I HAVE A HARD TIME WITH ACCECTANCE I HEAR THE SLOGANS IHEAR THE SUGG BUT I HOLD ON TO THINGS I REALLY CANT CONTROL BUT ITS OK BECAUSE I;M HUMAN AND I;M LEARING ONE DAY AT A TIME TO BE ALRIGHT WITH IT THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE SITE WRITING THAT IS . THANK YOU GUYS FOR BEING HERE FOR ME
GOD A THANKFUL ALOCOHIC
Member: Gage
Location: Louisiana
Date: 2/24/2002
Time: 11:55:07 PM
I'm Gage and I'm an alcoholic. Jim's and Kev's topics aren't that different if I consider what the story of Jesus at Gethsemane represents to me. (And whether I take it verbatim or not, I still think it's useful.) According to that story, Jesus was at Gethsemane in the last hours before he was arrested, and he was afraid. And he even asked God if he had to go through with what lay before him. I do that. Sometimes I want to run away too. More than once since I've been in AA someone I liked a lot either got drunk or just stopped coming to meetings, and I took it personally and felt lonely as a result of it, and I got these feelings of doubt about whether any of this really works or whether it's all just another form of self-deception. And, of course, every week at least one person comes to this site expressly to say just that -- that we're all a bunch of weak-willed robots. My reaction to that is usually anger, but sometimes it's doubt. In either case, my reaction isn't very often the spirtual one. And, of course, the ones who do attempt to react in a spiritual manner to adversity are often ridiculed. So, it's an easy thing to get scared and want to run away. I don't think that necessarily means that I'm not making spiritual progress, as long as I am willing to renew the third step every morning or at the very least, just close my eyes, grit my teeth and say yes. Anyway, in just a few hours it will be one year without a drink for me, and I like that. Thank you folks for helping me do it.
Member: Bud S.
Location: Canada
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 12:02:00 AM
Chapter 5 in teh Big Book reminds us that "we are not saints". However, if we are willing to grow along spiritual lines we will make progress. I don't spend too much time on my character defects to the point where I doubt myself. I chip away at them because after all this AA program is a life long program and striving for perfection is a bit too lofty for me. Forgiveness has become a big part of my program and the first one I have to forgive is myself when the character defects rear their ugly head(s). Placing principles before personalities and turning my will and my life over to my HP on a daily basis helps. Thanks for a great topic.
Member: Maureen
Location: Oregon
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 2:02:30 AM
My name is Maureen, and i'm alcholic that can not admit it wholeheartly. I know this and I still drink. Not always because I want to, it's always there---everyday with my husband, and I am weak! I do not have enough strengh to keep it out of body yet. I am in a very bad place still, but I have been making progress. I have learned alot from you wonderful people and the program you work. I pray that someday I will be sober, unfortunately it's not today. Thank you Gage for sharing your expeience and congratulations for doing what you were able to do. One Year! Wow! I won't give up on my one day of sobriety yet to come again. Some day soon I hope I want what you have bad enough. I think I am a good person, I just have alot of defects to work on. Just as long as God doesn't give up on me, I have no reason too. I have been in and out of the doors for 8 months. I just have not been able to do it whole heartly yet. The people in the meetings are there, and I admire that. They are there for themselves and me, I'm tired of diapointing them and myself. So i stopped going. I guess I"m still in denial and no,,I don't know how to find a sponsor. Asking for help is a big defect of mine. Thanks for reminding me Jim that I better get started working on my defects.
Member: Mark W.
Location: St. Louis
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 7:25:01 AM
Gage, good to see you here.
INMHO (in my humble opinion), the issue being brought up in this topic is that we need to get around to loving ourselves. How many did as they concentrated on the next drink? Not me for sure! Do I love myself today, years later? Well, much more so than when I started. I still have more than my share of defects, but they do lessen. This is a spiritual program, we strive for progress, not perfection. I guess I am on the way, never to arrive. I CAN accept that. How about you?
Mark W. LMW007@aol.com
Member: sonia
Location: uk
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 8:28:36 AM
The way i see it if i didnt have defects what would be the point. I would of learned all the lessons i needed and wouldnt be here on earth i dont think. If god made us in his own image, then i am afraid like the rest of us god has defects, and that makes him perfect. what is the use of courage if find myself with no fear, how could i better myself if i did not have the desire, if i did not feel fear how would i know what is dangerous, defects arent defects at all, and i hate the sodding term. If you are trying to be something you are not (defectless) then you have desire, which is a defect. It is about acceptance, not only of my own character, but of others. Once i accept things just as they are i am no longer in pain, but the aim isnt really to be painless, because i have ideals, and to achieve these i have to go through desire, and action and suffer. you could argue that if i accept suffering then i will no longer suffer. Defects as far as i can tell are just instincts gone a bit haywire, instinct is survival. I can however see that maybe the more we move away from the animal part of our nature that we may be moving closer to god. But i dont beleive that to move closer to god, we move away from evil. That would mean that animals are evil. I dont beleive in evil. GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK AND STOP CALLING THEM DEFECTS. Sorry i shouldnt shout, but i really do dislike the fact sometimes AA can come across like alkies are just mortal sinners. and that is bollocks. I read somewhere that it is no mistake that alcohol is called spirit. I for one believe that alcoholics just found the wrong spirit. I am so glad that i have been given the opportunity to find a spirit of my choosing. All of the above is pure fantasy, there is no way of knowing in my lifetime what the answer is. I will find out when i am dead.
Member: big g
Location: cal
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 11:16:46 AM
I'm neww to aa and this site. I notice that many of you suffer from financial fear. I do in the worst way. Is this a trait of an acholic? Does this happen to you?
Member: Craig L (Dogmanor@yahoo.com)
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 11:18:34 AM
Great Topic Jim! The only thing that was harder on me than I was on myself was alcohol. Alcohol had drained me of every shred of energy I had in me to fight any longer. I knew I had to change something about my intolerance of the imperfection of my life and the miserable world I found myself, if I was to relieve my need for anesthesia. In doing the steps I began to see my own intolerance to things, a lot of which had nothing to do with me. Today I can tell you I am amazed at the degree of serenity and peace I have found through acceptance of people and things I cannot change. The only perfection is God and the puny tools of intellect, perception and emotion cannot grasp that. I ask God to open my mind daily to growth and awakening and I am grateful for the relief I have Today from myself. On the days I don’t feel at peace, I tell my committee that God is still with me and I ask for the willingness to forgive myself. As an alcoholic with Faith, no matter how bad I screw up Today, if I don’t drink Today things always get better, usually with a shift in my perception.
Member: big g
Location: cal
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 11:21:50 AM
ibiggee@aol.com
Member: sober AA member 4yrs BTGOG
Location: t
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 12:28:54 PM
Member: Lessa E
Location: Chicago
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 12:38:52 PM
Lessa here, grateful recovering alcoholic. Thanks for a great topic, Jim. It's one I can relate to - alot. For myself the the first step to the character defects/imperfections I bring into my recovery is acceptance. Just like in Step One of the AA program, where I accepted my alcoholism, I need to also accept everything that goes along with it. Which includes those defects of character that made me want to run away and hide from myself, using alcohol to do so. I STILL have issues with some of my defects. Even after several fourth and fifth steps. The solution? Acceptance. I don't have to LIKE them. I do have to ACCEPT them. And, once I've accepted them, I can do steps 6 & 7, become willing to have them removed, humbly asked God to remove them and let them be removed. I can no more remove my defects of character by willpower than I could my need to drink. God does that, and I have to let him. As well as keeping my side of the street clean.
Thanks for letting me share.
lessa_e@hotmail.com
Member: sober AA member 4yrs BTGOG
Location: TEXAS
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 12:56:09 PM
The topic of character defects, Short comings. I drank and I ran at the inability to except myself or any of my surroundings as they were or for what they had become. Today as mentioned before FORGIVENESS,EXCEPTENCE, AND GRATITUDE are my saving GRACE at times of emotional disturbence. I will make mistakes for the rest of my life, but if I choose THE BIG THREE and learn I will surely grow. Its not so much what I am as what I choose to do with what and who I am that makes the growth in my life possible. For me only through great pain of self (EGO,FALSE PRIDE,SELF-WILL) I have suffered enough to be able to realize that I have a choice to let the changes come through progess. We are not promised a life outside of the storm. We are only promised peace within. The peace within comes for me only when I except myself and my life just the way it is today. Nothing changes on my time. I must continue to use the tools that I have to the best of my ability, and when they don't or stop working let them go. When my way stops working that is when I can grab the tools that do work, and truly begin to grow one day at a time.
My GOD will never give up on me. He does his part perfectly. I only am required to do my best one moment at a time, and when my best seems to be my worst thats just the way its supposed to be. I have to remember that is were I have the choice to let the growth begin. WHAT A DEAL.
Member: kev
Location: our happy home
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 1:05:41 PM
Well,the comments so far have given a thumbs up to the readingds,so I know I said I,d wait a few days, but I am very excited about passing on something that may prove helpful to someone,so please forgive me:`~Nathanael`s question still lingers,even two thousand years later....Can anything good come out of Nazareth? Come and see. Come and see the changed lives: the alcoholic now dry, the embittered now joyful, the shame now forgiven.... marriages rebuilt,the orphans embraced, the imprisoned inspired......... Come and see the pierced hand of God touch the most common heart,wipe the tear from the wrinkled face,and forgive the ugliest sin. Come and see. He avoids no seeker.He ignores no probe.He fears no search.Come and see.
Member: ralph
Location: oregon
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 2:32:39 PM
big g
im broke can you loan me some $$$$$$$
Member: ralph
Location: oregon
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 2:32:45 PM
big g
im broke can you loan me some $$$$$$$
Member: ralph
Location: oregon
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 2:32:51 PM
big g
im broke can you loan me some $$$$$$$
Member: AZbill
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 5:17:12 PM
HI. Bill here alcoholic from Arizona. Two fantastic topics again this week. Thanks Jim B and KEV.
Two of the three books that Bill Wilson used as references to write "Alcoholics Anonymous" were "Sermon on the Mount" by Emmet Fox and the Holy Bible. I was blessed by the fact that many of my early sponsors and spiritual advisors placed "Sermon on the Mount" ahead of the 12x12 as adjuctive reading. In there, I learned that Jesus Christ was a Jewish Rabbi that taught meta-physics and spiriuality.
Since God is a spiritual entity, then Jesus, as the son of God must be a spiritual entity. It then follows that since Jesus authored the "Lord's Prayer, then the Lord's Prayer is a Christian document only in name. Much like the Pavlovian dog or the Freudian slip or the Hippocratic Oath; and not a religous document.
This gives rise to an interesting thought. If God is a spiriual entity then when we say the Lord's Prayer, does that not establish the relationship between God and ourselves? Our Father?. Since a rose bush cannot produce lilys then God as a spiritualy entity can only produce a spiritual entity.
Jim B's Topic is much easier to deal with. The answer to our defects problem in in the 6th and 7th step. Previous to enterin those steps. We carefully review the first five proposals (Steps).
If we have done the work carefully enough, then the 6th step tells us we are ready to have them removed. However in the 7th. God will only remove those defects that stand in the way of our usefulness to Him and others. He leaves those other petty little defects to constantly remind us of our humanism. Reminding us that we do have free will to do as we please.
Bill
az-bill@mindspring.com
Member: fergus
Location: Scotland
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 6:04:49 PM
I hope I don't cause any offence to anyone, however all this talk of 'jesus' and 'garden of gethsemane' leaves me somewhat disturbed. I feel organised religion kills more people per year than drink.
I feel sure there is a universal force, being a Physicist, I also feel it is far too big to try and understand or quote 'musts' to individuals,chapter and verse from books written in the 1930's. The program works. That's a fact. Do we however have to'denature' our intellect and leave it at the door...comments welcome....
Member: tie why die
Location: pine dine dine
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 6:48:59 PM
And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him; And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Member: MARIA C.P.
Location: GLASGOW SCOTLAND
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 7:52:29 PM
MUST AGREE WITH FERGUS .LEAVES ME COLD ALL THIS JESUS STUFF. I AM NOT A GREAT BELIEVER OF JESUS BEING A SUPREME BEING , MORE SO AN ENLIGHTENED BEING THAT ALL OF US COULD BECOME. I DO BELIEVE HOWEVER IN A POWER GREATER THAM MYSELF AND KNOW THAT THERE IS A GREATER FORCE AT WORK, WELL HE HAS KEPT ME SOBER AGAINST ALL ODDS, AND FOR THAT I AM TRULY GRATFUL. I HAVE JUST FOUND THIS WEB SITE AS I HAVE JUST BOUGHT A COMPUTER.
Member: fergus
Location: Scotland
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 8:15:09 PM
tie why die.....why not quote Confucius or the Koran.. Stephen Hawking..or Star Trek?
Maria C.P. Thanks for your remarks. I'm fairly near you and a lot of meetings I've been to have been relatively disapointing.If you know of any good ones pls let me know.
struggling.... fergus
Member: steve g
Location: australia
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 8:50:26 PM
Hi I'm Steve and I'm an alcoholic I tend to agree with you, Fergus. This program is a spiritual one and i think we are leaving ourselves open for conflict and criticism if we change the program to a religious one.A God of our own understanding is how I see it working.
Member: ferges
Location: a go go
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:06:51 PM
the itsy bitsy spider fell down the waterspout midstream too.
Member: ferges
Location: a go go
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:06:59 PM
the itsy bitsy spider fell down the waterspout midstream too.
Member: Susan A
Location: OC, CA
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:18:19 PM
Well Hello all you recovering drunks. I am Susan, alcoholic. In terms of your discussions, I do not mind hearing talk of Jesus but I know when I first got sober almost 18 years ago talk like that would have turned me off. I believed in God but did not think He believed in me. I used the visibal power in AA as my higher power and just put the word God in my prayers. I do now have a religoius life but feel that God brings that to us when we are ready. Please do not turn form AA just because those who have found Jesus want to tell you. The steps in AA is what keep us sober, not the meetings, not the fellowship. Those things help us stay connected, but only those steps as they are written in that old Big Book will point you in the direction of no longer having to drink. I love AA and all it has given me. The Jesus part in an addition pleasure now. What I really wanted to say on the topic is that our defects get better, or we learn to deal with them by checking our motives. My first sponser told me that, and it is like a baby learning to do something. I have "defect" because I am human, I just no longer have to hurt people by opening my mouth or myself by being in bad situations. Anyway, this is my first online meeting and I think it is pretty cool. Keep comin back. Remember that we are hear for ourselves. I had to learn what to take home and what to leave. Peace, thanks for letting me share.
Member: fergus
Location: scotland
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:19:44 PM
steve g.........it must be a wee bit early in the morning where U are:-)...thanks for the support... fergus
Member: fergus
Location: scotland
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:29:42 PM
Susan.....meetings must be different in CA...we are continually bombarded with more religious nuances in Scotland (perhaps historical and tribal). I feel AA as a whole could go a lot further (in this country anyway) if sectarian referances were done away with. This comes from someone who was brought up in Northern Ireland. thankyou for your thoughts and may whatever power you believe in go with U. fergus
Member: fergus
Location: Scotland
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 9:44:16 PM
fergus is lecturing at 1000.....time in Scotland now 0242.....time for bed......... take it easy everyone...i've enjoyed the feedback
Member: Terry G.
Location: Phoenix AZ>
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 10:55:05 PM
What is it we don't understand about cease fighting everything and everyone? My friends! whoever we chose to call our Higher Power,I don't think He really cares what we call Him.I AM I SAID.
Member: Terry G.
Location: Phoenix AZ>
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 10:55:28 PM
What is it we don't understand about cease fighting everything and everyone? My friends! whoever we chose to call our Higher Power,I don't think He really cares what we call Him.I AM I SAID.
Member: mike s.
Location: new bern nc
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 10:57:23 PM
hi mike alcoholic thanks kev for sharing for the first 29 years of my life i did not come and see and was a drunken bum living at home with my parents at age 29 finally i did come and see and my life changed for the better all except my drinking finally at age 46 i came into a.a. and thru gods power working in a.a. stopped drinking and drugging do i like religion-no do i like spiritually-yes i do not go to church but i go to a.a. for spiriual fellowship and i find it in topics about acceptance.honesty,working on personal defects and others i really believe the reason god got bill w. and dr. bob together to start a.a. was so god could have fellowship with a bunch of recovering drunks thanks for letting me share
Member: Dan H
Location: Henderson/LV,NV
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 11:37:16 PM
Dan, alcoholic, The more I trudge the road to happy destiny, the more I realize that god was/is the only perfect force out there. Quite simply, I'm not God, so there isn't any way I can be perfect. I choose to work a good program and deal with and face my character defects. The most important part in that is the seventh step prayer on pg 76 of the BB, however, I did'n worry about the defects untill I was on step 6 & 7. The steps are in a specific order for a reason. Remember to honor the pause. Peaceout
Member: Dan H
Location: Henderson/LV,NV
Date: 2/25/2002
Time: 11:47:36 PM
Dan, alcoholic, The more I trudge the road to happy destiny, the more I realize that god was/is the only perfect force out there. Quite simply, I'm not God, so there isn't any way I can be perfect. I choose to work a good program and deal with and face my character defects. The most important part in that is the seventh step prayer on pg 76 of the BB, however, I did'n worry about the defects untill I was on step 6 & 7. The steps are in a specific order for a reason. Remember to honor the pause. Peaceout
Member: JCP
Location: Penn's Woods
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 12:01:47 AM
Hi, group, J here a grateful alcoholic.
This is an interesting discussion, as long as I remember that "The only requirement for membership is a DESIRE to stop drinking."
Speaking of religion, as you've been, I never go to the church nearest here because they knew how I behaved, knew the anxieties I put my wife through--so I couldn't blame them except that this Memorial Day that will be 25 years ago and at last contact those who still knew who I was still had the same attitude. I went to meetings in their basement for long time and I've returned to church long ago, but not that one.
"We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." At first glance, and many more glances, that looks impossible--as if there has to be a choice, either regret OR shut the door.
I have no problem with gratidude, since alcoholism was not rare in our family and we've lost most of the older drunks. My brother came in after me. Just on a phone call over family matters, he said, "Why don't you come down here, we'll take out the boat, pop a few, fish a little and talk these things over."
I said, "I'd love to go fishing with out, but I don't pop cans anymore." He said, "You what?" I said, "I quit that." He said, "You what?" You get the idea, that was within a year or so of my start, and now he's devoted to a major group, with meetings all day and evening near an Interstate exit at Memphis.
If I got any credit coming it's only the obvious, that if A.A. could dry out a drunk like me, it might be worth his looking into.
Then my son came in. A.A. had a similar effect, though my breother's children were younger. My younger son saw it all and got the point in time.
In discussion, practically anything goes but nothing here is goig to change the promise of A.A.:
". . . We will be amazed before we are halfway through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace . . .we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. . . Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. . . .We will suddenly realize. . . ."--Big Book, p. 70.
Member: Texas Rose
Location:
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 12:10:40 AM
questions were asked for this weeks topic and I was about to respond to each one when I realized that analyzing is not good for me. I utilize instead. I don't compare out. I identify. Acceptance. Turning it over to my Higher Power. Seeking HP to remove my shortcomings. Changing old behaviors and replacing them with new behaviors takes time >> one day at a time. I've changed along the way of walking sobriety. I'm not perfect, but progress has been made.
why all the analyzing?
Member: Lori R
Location: Canada
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 1:31:44 AM
Hi Lori Alcoholic here, I've just read quickly thur the posts. What a awesome topic, I too do many things that are un-sober like as someone has said. I really try to look at my life as progess and I know I have progessed a lot from the drunk I was 5 years ago. I have to work at it and go to meetings and hang out with newcomers, because I backslide so easily and I slip into the old thinking and character defeats (lust, greed for money or sucess) can take over and then I forget what my purpose is. It's first to stay sober, because I will have nothing if I don't stay sober.
The 12X12 talks about the our true purpose to live usefully and walk humbly under the grace of God (step 12). That is where I hope to one day to progess to. Happy One Year Gage and a good 24 hours to everyone else.
Member: me
Location: here
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 2:13:47 AM
Hi I'm Maueen---the alkie in denial!? The only thing I can say is this and it is only my opnion, experience. If it were not For AA having a spiritual part,, i would not look twice. I know I am a spiritual being that is lost and need help. If the two, me and my spirit(HP) ever get together, it would be a beautiful thing. The only thing that is majorly causing problems is achochol.
Member: Deborah P.
Location: Georgia
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 7:18:10 AM
Jesus is not about religion. The quote of Kev's by Bill W. is in the big book around page 200 something - look it up. God and His son, Jesus is the God of my understanding. Isn't this ok if some people use the group or a doorknob!?
Our recovery is based on the 12 steps and the program. working on character defects is no fun but we are told in the big book that just as God has removed our desire for the drink, He will remove these defects as much as we are WILLING. Willingness is the key.
I'm having surgery tomorrow morning and am a little nervous but, with the God of my understanding with me, I know I'll be safe. I am a little nervous which is why I visited this site this am. Nothing can make me drink today which is a total miracle after where I came from. We're all miracles and children of God who wants the best for us.
Keep going to live meetings, work the steps, talk to a sponsor and read the big book - happiness is finally within our grasp. I am happier and more serene than I've ever been. It just keeps getting better with each day of sobriety!
Thanks, Deborah P.
Member: Susan B
Location: North Carolina
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 7:18:18 AM
Hi to all my fellows! I am new also to this site. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs. Spirituality works for me like this. I was sitting on my back porch this morning examining why I haven't been able to get out and do some marketing for my home business (lack of self esteeem, procrastination, fear) and decided since I haven't been to a meeting this week, I would look on web this morning. Which led me to you guys. I forget that I am human and that I do NOT have to be perfect any more. I can take small steps every day towards my goals as long as I do take SOME action. I also do not dwell on those awful words " character defects" as I have such a problem with self esteem. I recognize them when I see them, sometimes laugh at them, and ask God immediately to help me move towards some change in that area. Maureen, I hope you do not have to wait as long as I did to surrender. It only gets worse and believe me the suffering is so futile. Course I am on the other side of surrender now, but if you can fake it till you make it and just be willing to try, I found that once I accepted the fact that I could not have even 'ONE' drink and kept it out of my body for about three weeks, the words and love of AA were able to start reaching me. It was painful to do, yes, but not as painful as the suffering I went through before surrender. Forget the defects and work towards surrender one day at a time--for you! Thanks all for letting me share, thanks for what you all shared here, and have a great day!
Member: m.
Location: Up North
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 8:55:38 AM
Hi. First time contributor and am working on day 20. I think the discussion of imperfections and last week's topic of acceptance go together. When I accepted that I had a problem with alcohol, I accepted a large imperfection. After that honest moment, I felt relieved and that a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. Imperfections? Yes. Guilt? Sure. Next step for me? recognize that I am merely human and forgive myself. Yesterday's mistakes, as we know, belong to the past. If, however, we work today to learn from our mistakes and make today the absolute best that we can make it, let's focus on the positive direction that our lives are taking without alcohol. Yours in fellowship, m.
Member: Liz S
Location: Massachusetts
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 8:56:18 AM
hi all, i'm liz, grateful recovering alchoholic. i've been sober close to five years thanks to AA: the Program and the Fellowship and i've been able to do it even though i don't appreciate the lord's prayer in USA meetings; i don't appreciate references to jesus nor do i relate to the male god language written by white anglosaxon males in the 1930's: i know one thing though - i can stay sober 100 years but i'll still be a human being and being human means being, on occasion, angry, resentful, afraid and so forth. what i do with those feelings however is another story. the steps and sponsorship have shown me that there is a way to cope and deal with feelings i drank over for 25 plus years. i thank aa for god in my life today but my god is not necessarily yours and that's ok. there are many of us in recovery who have major self-love issues and i've discovered that i can learn to love myself more by doing loving action, self esteem comes from doing esteemable things: for me, concentrating on the imbalances of my character (i never use the word "defect": i grew up believing i was defective and i used over that) does not help. if i need to look at bad and inappropriate behavior, then i can do that, especially with outside help: aa friends, sponsor, shrink, - but i stay sober because sober i can learn to respect and love myself, not an easy feat and an ongoing process. i wear aa's christian ethic like a loose jacket; taking what appeals to me and leaving the rest. that's what works for me. i hope you all have a happy and healthy 24 hours, Liz
Member: m.
Location: Up North
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 8:57:17 AM
P.S.This site has been very valuable to me. Thank you to all.
Member: Margie
Location: L.I.
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 10:05:01 AM
Welcome,((M)),((Susan)), and all the other first time posts. We are glad for your imput and sobriety!
I think the bottom line for all of this character defects stuff, is to be conscientious! To be aware of others, to be aware of our feelings and to be helpful. Like someone said up a ways on the posts, God will show our usefullness when it is needed. That is being aware and Conscientious.
We definetly are not perfect, no human is, in and out of the rooms. We are so blessed that we are able to be humble enough to admit our "lack of awareness" to others who will accept us, encourage us, and related to us, about how we feel. I wonder if anyone who doesn't have a porgram can do that honestly?
This program is definetly God given, how else could a bunch of all time self-imposed, self- defeatist come to be truthful, to be strong and helpful individuals!!?. Ones that are so spiritually minded, could put some clergymen and Shaman to shame.
We are awesome and so is this program if it is worked the way many above have said!! It is a process, a conscientious process to be more like Jesus, Budha, David, Moses or Mohammed. All of which lived to do God's will!
I hope I am able to do that today!!
Now that is progress!
Thanks for letting me share...
Member: kev
Location: home sweet home
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 10:44:15 AM
good morning dear friends.`~~Have you noticed that God does not ask you to prove that you will put your salary to good use?Have you noticedthat God does not turn off your oxygen supply when you misuse his gifts?Aren`t you glad that God does not give you only that which ypou remember to thank him for?.... Gods goodness is spurred by his nature,not by our worthiness. Someone asked an associate of mine,"What biblical precedent do we have to help the poor who have no desire to become Christians?" My friend responded with one word:"God." God does it daily, for millions of people.
Thanks for taking the time to read this,my hope is that it may have inspired you to be kind to someone today. kev
Member: Akshay
Location: India
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 11:01:51 AM
Good evening friends, i just want to say that god of our understanding works in our life and we are better able to understand gods will for us if we keep love and truth as a basis for relating to ourselves,our neighbor and our god.If we can use our seven god given instincts in balance and with good enough prudence, then we are on the way. By the way check out The Turning Point by Dick B.
Member: Susan A
Location: OC,CA
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 1:21:15 PM
Hello all. Susan Alcoholic here. I will pray for you Deborah P. on you surgery. It is good you feel safe with God. Also I, accept the drugs need for the surgery but do not take more than needed home. My last surgery I only filled the pain cript halfway. Once started on that stuff and I get uncomfortable. No reason to waste my money.
I do like this online AA. I do not hear enough about working the steps, so I want to share my experience, strength, and hope on that. When I first got sober I did as much writing as I could (anything not to drink again). I did an inventory like a book, a trilogy actually. I got some relive, defects were changed a bit, bit fear still prevailed. After about 12 years I did a "Joe and Charlie Big Book Workshop". Oh my God! It has made a big difference in my comfort level. I actualy did the staeps as written in the Big Book, going down the colums, not across. It sounds so dumb but it makes it easier to see my patterns of behavior. And that my wonderful friends is the key the changing. I now can look at a fear-what it is, why I have it, ask God to remove it and show me what he would have me be. I look for a spiritual solution and a practical solution(action to back up the spiritual solution), and I get INSTANT relief. That is what I looked for my whole drinking and drugging career!
Take care and please get a sponser to work the step with as they are layeed out in the Big Book. This is how we get to see results in our lives. I am self suporting today, with beautful, loving childen, an education, and a fulfilling job. A major gift from God to a girl who could never seem to grow up. Love to you all. Keep comin Back!!
Member: Jen R
Location: Colorado
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 3:45:47 PM
Hello all. Jen here - 8 months sober. I have a very hard time accepting that just because I'm sober doesn't mean that I am now without fault. This is because I blamed alcohol for all of my problems. Alcohol did not cause my problems but has kept me from growing beyond any of them. Now that I'm sober, I still have problems. My therapist reminds me that everybody is broken - just in different places. That is one of my most comforting thoughts. As long as I am trying my hardest to be the best person I can be, I am no less or greater than anybody else. I also am comforted by my more spiritual thoughts. When I surrender my power to that universal power, all thoughts of inadequacy fade. We are all perfect and everything has a purpose. We need to not get too hung up on always understanding that purpose. I too am a little turned off by too much talk of "Jesus". I am spiritual, but do not follow any organized religion. However, the teachings of Jesus are universally important. I think it's very important for AA to have a strong spiritual base, but I wish more groups could get away strictly Christian discussions. More general terms would make it easier for everybody to get something from the conversation. Just my opinion. I don't have too hard a time listening to "Jesus this..." or "Jesus that..." and just translating it to my way of putting it. I hope any of this made sense. Glad to be sober and glad to be here with you. Jen
Member: Kim D.
Location: Bridgewater
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 4:59:23 PM
Before I got sober this time through AA, I thought that the biggest character defect I had was drinking and that if I could stop - and stay stopped - then I wouldn't continue to hurt myself or others.
After I got sober and stayed sober for a while, I realized that my drinking was only a symptom of underlying causes and that my character defects (dishonesty, self-seeking, etc.) were still present and that I could not stay sober and live a content life as long as I continued to repeat those old behaviors.
However, it seems as though the longer I am sober, the more I learn about myself and thus, other defects of character, previously unknown to my conscience, become revealed. Thus, this work of becoming aware of, and working to remove defects is an ongoing process for me.
In my opinion, it does not conotate that I am not working the AA program if I am always working on myself. Just the opposite. It means that I am using the tools AA has given me to become the best person I can be - the one God meant for me to be when I came into this world.
Member: NEW A.A. MEETING IN
Location: POCONOS SOON
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 5:03:38 PM
DICK B. HAS SOME GOOD INFO. A MEETING USING HIS BOOKS AND IDEAS WILL BE STARTING IN THE POCONOS THIS SPRING. AS SOON AS A SITE HAS BEEN SECURED AND THE BOOKS GET HERE, THERE WILL BE AN E MAIL ADDRESS GIVEN OUT IF YOU,D LIKE MORE INFO.
Member: not a jesus freak,but have
Location: an open enuff mind 2 lisn
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 5:51:40 PM
fregrus from scotchland don,t think to hard you,ll hurt your phyisist.jesus christ has nothing to do with organized religions of any denomination. the fact that THEY linked themselves to him ,well shit man they already killed him .you like most brainiacs have no clue.just read the guys post or scroll past em ,either way shut the hell up,you,re annoyin people
Member: GOD AS WE NOT YOU
Location: UNDERSTANDinld jesus
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 5:58:35 PM
DEAR MARIA CP_____SINCE YOUR NEW WE,LL FORGIVE THE SCREAMING NO NEED TO USE ALL CAPITALS!!!!!!! AND IT<S GOD AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM (NOT EXCLUDING UNDERSTANDING HIM AS JESUS CHRIST)GOT IT!!!! IF IT MAKES YOU RUN COLD, PUT ON A SWEATER AND OPEN YOUR MIND AND LEAVE PEOPLE TO THEIR BELIEFS IF YOU WANT THE SAME RESPECT. AND LAY OFF THE CAPS<SEE HOW ANNOYING THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!
Member: we must all understand
Location: god as steve understands
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 6:13:59 PM
so teve g it,s god as we understand him so long as you approve of the understanding or you just want jesus out of the picture.enlighten me
Member: Elizabeth R.
Location: Baltimore
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 9:45:40 PM
Hi my name is Elizabeth and i am an alcoholic. I am new to this site and new to AA. I have just over 60 days sober. Progress not perfection. Do I need to hear this. I find that I have this impatient tendency to want to be well right away. I realize I will always be on a journey towards what God intends me to be. Today, as with amny days lately my past creaps up on me and I just feel like "crap." But I remember that I am sober today and sometimes that alone is enough for me right now to feel better about me. right now all I can do is keep it simple, go to meetings, develope a relationship with my Higher Power, and don't drink one day at a time. As far as character defects, when they appear, better yet, when I am aware of them I turn it over. All I can do is turn it over. I ask God to take this because I truly don't know how to behave. he takes care of it and by some miracle He places wisdom in my heart with the proper thing to do. I can beat myself up or worry to death about the future but I hope it makes sense and that I am on the track when I write about all I can do right now is accept the way I am today and know that god loves me today, just put one foot in front of the other and work my program the best that I can. I have to remain open, honest, and willing the rest will follow.
A Very Greatful Recovering Alcoholic
Member: Chris
Location: Detroit
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 9:52:03 PM
Hi, I'm Chris. As time goes on, sobriety becomes easier and easier. But as with all substance abusers I still have the occasional bad thought. To keep these to a minimum, I try to stay busy with housework and hobbies. I find that reading is a great way to relax and keep your mind from wandering.
Your friend Chris
Member: don t
Location: Western New York
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 9:53:00 PM
Member: don t
Location: Western New York
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 10:13:09 PM
As I understand God: I believe either way is acceptable Higher Power, God or Jesus Christ. Iam sure our Higher Power (individually of course) does not care what he is referred to in prayer meditation or at meetings or even one on one coversations with other AA people. On the other hand new comers might be confused and other religions may not understand Jesus and it could isolate some members. Don T
Member: Fueqtlaya
Location: Big bright light
Date: 2/26/2002
Time: 11:00:13 PM
Please! everyone remember to be (reasonably) gentle and tolerant with eachother. No one learns well from insults, slams, cold words. I am not inferring to not be direct or honest. There is a difference. It is worth learning the difference. I will tell anyone the truth whether they like me or not however I will not try to make another feel ashamed of what they said for my own selfish ego. It is a good thing to keep ones ego in check. Have a good day.
Member: Maureen
Location: Oregon
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 2:06:39 AM
Well Jen, I'm a lil disturturbed if I don't follow a organizied relgion. I have not gone to mass for several weeks due to situations beyond my control. I miss it! I am alot like my car, I need a fill up. Where else would I get to?hear,touch,taste and feel--- oh and yes I see God's son when I go to mass, it is there!
Member: Shianne
Location: USA
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 2:10:53 AM
Hi there,
Thanks for the topic. 2nd step says "could restore me to sanity" didn't say would. Today, I'm aware of my faults and do my best, with HP's help, to correct them. I falter many times but I don't quit. I keep trudging - working AA in my life. Some defects are totally gone and I thank my Higher Power, for He is the only one who removed them for me, which leaves me forever grateful. This is a "spiritual" program = A.A. ever reminding me to place principles before personalities.
Have a good week y'll!
Member: Figment
Location: In the mind
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 7:56:54 AM
If all my defects are gone what will be left? Will I still be me?
Member: kev
Location: home sweet home
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:09:42 AM
`~`~Read slowly and carefullyPauls`description of what God has done for you:"When you were spiritually dead because of your sins and because you were not free from the power of your sinful self, God made you alive with Christ and he forgave all our sins. He canceled the debt,which listed all the rules we failed to follow,He took away that record with its rules and nailed it to the cross,God stripped the spiritual rulers and powers of their authority. With the cross,he won the victory and showed the world that they were powerless. As you look at the words above,answer this question,Who is doing the work?You orGod? Who is active?You or God?Who is doing the saving? You or God? Hope you can draw some strength from the words above.If they are not your cup of tea,scroll on by and find words more comforting to your spirit. Kev
Member: Dee
Location: the not so deep South
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:19:31 AM
While it's true that the origional 100 used books of the Bible as well as writings by E. Fox to structure the foundation of our program of recovery, I have to believe that God (as I understand God) directed them to add "as I understand" for some very good reasons. First so that in Bill's own words "we became all inclusive" Second my understanding of God changes with each and every day/year that I "Practice these principles in all my affairs". INMHO the Book, Alcoholics Annonymous, when studied and used as I was taught, allow me to continuosly grow in the knowledge that there is a God and I really never will understand him...It's just my job to love him and you. My defects are still there today but the nature of my wrongs and concerns have certainly improved since I met ya'll. Thanks for putting up with me all these years.
Member: AM
Location: Vancouver
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 11:14:26 AM
AM here, alcoholic. Right now, my biggest character defect is my compulsion to drink alcohol and the person that it makes me become. I've just joined an outpatient program and to give me a much-needed push, I'm starting to take Anabuse. That starts tonight. Of couse, yesterday, I felt I had to have a "last hurrah" with booze and ended up hurting a lot of people. It may cause me to get fired, in fact. Yesterday was terrible, very horrible. I let people down. So, after a sleepless night full of guilt and remorse, I awoke feeling pretty calm. My husband doesn't know all the details of what happened, but knows I'm worried about my job. I'm just going to stay cool and accept any consequences -- drinking is indeed a choice, although sometimes it doesn't seem that way. I've just got to trust that this is my path and these are experiences I need to grow. But it sure is humiliating and difficult. Well, so far so good now. I just hope I can make it through the day without any beer or wine. Thanks.
Member: kev
Location: home near the fire
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 11:50:09 AM
thought i ,d take the lazy way out for a minute to say i have tried to read as many responses to my daily postings as pssible[o]< the purpose was to heal not to further harm. some realize the truth,while some can,t run away from it fast enough.i,m not here to push anything nor have any finacial agenda.but if you are worried about the inclusive nature of jesus, you need not worry,as He is a man for us all. now if you choose not to believe in him or any specific part of him,that is your right,as it is the right of the believer to speak their mind WITHOUT having to worry or quite franky care how YOU are affected by it.the newcomer will find their way and make their choices based on what is appealing to them.so if i may make a suggestion:though there are certain things in the 12 step that are not up for interpretation, God IS! so choose wisely, as DEE,stay open to change and growth and most important"LOVE EACH OTHER AND RESPECT THE BELIEFS AND ACTIONS OF NOT ONLY ALCOHOLICS BUT ALL GODS` CHILDREN"
Member: kev
Location: home near the fire
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 11:50:12 AM
thought i ,d take the lazy way out for a minute to say i have tried to read as many responses to my daily postings as pssible[o]< the purpose was to heal not to further harm. some realize the truth,while some can,t run away from it fast enough.i,m not here to push anything nor have any finacial agenda.but if you are worried about the inclusive nature of jesus, you need not worry,as He is a man for us all. now if you choose not to believe in him or any specific part of him,that is your right,as it is the right of the believer to speak their mind WITHOUT having to worry or quite franky care how YOU are affected by it.the newcomer will find their way and make their choices based on what is appealing to them.so if i may make a suggestion:though there are certain things in the 12 step that are not up for interpretation, God IS! so choose wisely, as DEE,stay open to change and growth and most important"LOVE EACH OTHER AND RESPECT THE BELIEFS AND ACTIONS OF NOT ONLY ALCOHOLICS BUT ALL GODS` CHILDREN"
Member: La Ha group
Location: Hunt, TX
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 12:30:28 PM
Hi this is small group in rehab. We're having a small group on "following your dreams" as part of recovery & how they are a part of your recovery. This is difficult for some of us (our group is young adults, teenagers, because some people feel like we never had dreams. Others feel like they only got to their dreams through drugs. It is hard to see your dreams when you're first getting sober & dealing with with lots of stuff.
Member: Patrick M.
Location: Goodnews Bay AK
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 1:00:44 PM
Hello! My name is Pat and I'm an Alcoholic living in Goodnews Bay, Alaska.
I'm sober 16 years in March and owe my life to Alcoholics Anonymous. With this many years, and after sitting in many thousands of meetings, I've come to know that AA and especially the Big Book are "Divine" in origin. Like so many in AA I've have a hard time with organized religion and because of AA I've been given permission to look beyond man's "labels" for my creator. When I take the "labels" off, open my mind, then I find that my creator is vast, so much more than I'll ever be able to realize in this lifetime, and with me always. Today, I have no proplem with any church or religion. I honor all channels that guide people to seek the Creator.
Initially, my progress in AA was based on just staying away from alcohol sometimes "one minute at a time" whereas today I try to maintain a spiritual growth through reading and discovery and I can only measure this progress by how I react to others during the day.
I ask myself if I am doing what my creator would want me to do?
Am I being of the utmost service to the newcomer?
What can I do with the gifts and talents (almost all realized and developed since I got sober) to help others along to path to Happy Destiny?
Thank all of you for my sobriety.
Member: Jen R
Location: sunny Colorado
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 2:18:20 PM
Maureen - Jen here. I agree. I get a little disturbed if I don't acknowledge my spirituality regulary too. I need to "fill up" and I don't feel right when I neglect it. I just get it somewhere else. I go to the river or the ocean and I pray and I give my dreams and worries over to my higher power to take care of. It's very much like going to a church for me. I hope you get to mass soon so you can get what you need. I'll pray for you. Jen
Member: Chris H.
Location: Fla.
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 3:01:50 PM
Hi I'm Chris an alcoholic/addict/bulimic---What a great topic for me today. Progress not perfection. I have always said that this is one of geatest gufts that the prigram has given to me. Before I came into program I was ( and still am) a religious person. However, I saw the GOd of my understanding as a perfectionist who would allow no less than perfection ( sounds a little like the father I grew up with!!!I wonder why?!!). In the rooms, I have learned that He is a gracious GOd who only asks that I do the best I can. NOt only did I think that GOd expected perfection of me, I also expected perfection of myself. Needless to say, I never reached perfection and was constanly beating myself up over it. I have learned, in the rooms, that I really never made any progress that way and to truly make progress I must except my limitions and take what ever steps,however small, I can toward my sobriety. My sponsor says that if you can't go forward--at least go sideways-- and try to make some movement. My old way of thinking basically paralized me in self hate, whereas this new way of thinkking has brought me a great deal of progress towards a sound ming and a positive way of life. Even if my progress is very slow at times---at least it is PROGRESS!!!It does not have to be perfection!!!..I thank our founding fathers and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous for this great gift of release from perfectionism and self hate!!!
Member: Mary K
Location: NE Ohio
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 5:05:59 PM
all I can say is I'm sure my character defects were much more pronouced and visable when I was using than they are now and no matter what they are I would rather have them sober.
Member: kev
Location: HOME
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 5:44:17 PM
Dear Friends, My sponsor has suggested that since this is occupying way to much space in my head whether I,m upsetting folks or not, I,m done.
Member: Gail G
Location: CO
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 6:12:27 PM
(Looks like I came in the midst of a big fight here. Hope you all can resolve your differences in a beneficial manner.)
I'm only on day 5 so I really can't comment much on it, except to say it's what drove me to drink in the first place (the imperfections, defects, etc.)
Love this site
Gail G
Member: Kyle
Location: Florida
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 8:05:16 PM
I think the problem people have with the idea of Jesus is letting go of their old ideas. Remember how well those old ideas worked for us.
Member: Harry K
Location: U.K
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:01:33 PM
I'm Harry, A sober alcoholic who is still making progress. How? 1) I still get angry but it no longer me for hours on end. 2) I no longer feel the need to follow the chap that cut me off on the highway past my exit to demonstrate my displeasure at him. 3) I'm still racked with fear but no longer am paralized by it. I can now "face" a situation and address it in spite of my fears. I no longer run from personal responsibility. 4) A resentment (though far less often than before) that used to rule me for days may only last a couple of hours now. 5) I practice the last three steps of my program daily today and not only when I think I "need to". Mind you, I will not claim I'm always good at it, but I'm getting better. 6) There are so many more but you know what? FINALLY..... I know I'm not yet the man I want to be, and I may never get there, but I'm certainly NOT the man I used to be! That's progress. Character defects and all, personal shortcomings and all, I have a program of self examination that I use to keep me from becoming a slave to these defects. I still get caught, but not hung. I once heard someone say to a group.. "practice makes?............" and the crowd said "Perfection!" Less responded "Wrong! There is no such thing as perfection; take it out of your vocabulary....It doesn't exist. "Practice makes IMPROVEMENT" It sure works for me. Thanks for letting me type.
Member: Joe H
Location:
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:23:02 PM
To Gail G. There's no fight here, just a friendly exchange on our different understandings. You should post, at five days the rest of us need to hear what's on your mind. Please stick around.
Member: satan
Location: hell
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:37:46 PM
i am coming to save the world,beware the 666,the mark of the beast the dark one my broyher lucifur and his kind...my family from the depths of hell and beyond infiniety.barbie dolls are evil as my brother jack daniels.
Member: satan
Location: hell
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:37:54 PM
i am coming to save the world,beware the 666,the mark of the beast the dark one my broyher lucifur and his kind...my family from the depths of hell and beyond infiniety.barbie dolls are evil as my brother jack daniels.
Member: satan
Location: hell
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 9:38:01 PM
i am coming to save the world,beware the 666,the mark of the beast the dark one my broyher lucifur and his kind...my family from the depths of hell and beyond infiniety.barbie dolls are evil as my brother jack daniels.
Member: Nina
Location: A puffy cloud
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 10:42:50 PM
Hi everyone I'm Nina-Alcoholic.
Figment (in my mind) I liked the questions you wrote a while back. Thats exactly what I was afraid of-what my life would be like and what I would be like if I let go of a lot of defects. I didn't want to become miss goody two shoes or a fruit, -whatever stupid thing. But I got to where I trusted a higher power a bit more as time went on and what I became didnt seem to matter so much. And guess what-I'm not a fruit-so far. Being on the other side without the defects hounding me as much keeps looking better to me. But I think of what someone said at a meeting one time, "being sober takes courage". Hugs to you.
Member: Gail G
Location: CO
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 10:53:38 PM
Thanks Joe H. I needed that. See, thats one of my imperfections right there! & thinking there's a fight was a thing that made me want to drink.
Gail G
Member: Logan F.
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 11:03:18 PM
Have ANY of you ALCOHLOICS EVER considered that your Problem is a Divine Message that you need to CEASE to Exist ?!! That your Inclinations are both Correct and Divine at once ? That Self Destruction is your Nature ? That "GOD" is speaking to You but don't like what you hear ?!!! Have you EVER considered that IMPERFECTION is an aspect of GOD ? That a number of Individuals, at any given time, are Aspects of that Imperfection ? That DENIAL of Your Assignment in ths Existence is the Sum Total of your Problem ? Go with the Flow...Follow your True Nature & Instincts ! Become YOUR Design !!! Let GOD !
Member: johnb
Location: jax fla
Date: 2/27/2002
Time: 11:11:52 PM
HI, I'M JOHN AND I'M AN ALCOHOLIC. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THIS SITE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT CAN BE VERY HELPFUL. I JUST GOT MY ONE YEAR MEDALLION ON NOV 16. NOT BAD AFTER TRYING FOR 13 YEARS. PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION.... I OFTEN GET HUNG UP THAT IM NOT WORKING A GOOD ENOUGH PROGRAM AT WHICH TIMES MY SPONSOR REMINDS ME THAT WE'RE AFTER PROGRESS. AM I BETTER TODAY THAN A YEAR AGO DRINKING ALONE AND SEVERELY TROUBLED AND DEPRESSED??? YES, YES, YES. THANK GOD FOR MY FAITH IN AA AND MY HIGHER POWER!!
Member: Margie
Location: LI
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 1:32:13 AM
I have read alot of good posts here! Thanks to all for reminding me that it is in my head, most of my defects. The self imposed hate, that leads me to escape and to drink/drug. I can get so wrapped up in paranioa (years of pot), that my head swims with self doubt and pity. I have to be very careful with my defects. I try my best to eliminate as much as I am aware of, but I also don't give myself enough credit. The people in the rooms help me to stay on track and to remember I am only responsible for the effort, to be Honest, Open,and Willing. Through these people God speaks to me, and helps me to sort out the defects from the good stuff.
I was so *ss backwards before coming into these rooms, being an adult child of an alkie, and then becoming one, I have quite a mess to sort out! I need to remember that I am only human, and am just learning to be the real me, and that God, if he were saught, will help me.
Thanks for all of your help!
Trying to be me...Margie a druggy and an alkie.
Member: Kathy
Location: Northeast
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 4:18:22 AM
JOHN B.
Congratulations on your First Anniversary -glad to have you with us.
Please continue to come and post. I need to hear from newcomers to remind me the hell I left when I sobered up.
Small case is easier to read..
Member: Maree
Location: QLD
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 6:42:18 AM
Hi there, fivemonths sober and discovering myself, scary but exciting. For me its about being aware of my character defects and then accepting them as part of me. Theres a lot of stuff i dont like about myself but thats OK as I trust in God that these may be removed when the time is right. The programme for me is a bit of a mission but I enjoy the spiritual aspect and im at step 3 trying to hand my will over to the care of God, man thats a task and a half, prayer works on this one. I guess as humans we will never be without defects as this is what makes us unique and different, life would be boring otherwise, and how can we be humble in the face of perfection, accept and acknowledge that our imperfections are what creates desirable/undesirable unique individuals. When wrong we promptly admit it and move on. We are all spirit with fleshly desires and it is through Gods understanding and forgiveness that we may seek to love, hope and have faith. Sobriety is a great gift to the suffering alcoholic. Thank you and God bless.
Member: Sam
Location:
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 8:53:37 AM
John b.'s comment reminded me of an article I read in a running magazine. The topic was, "Things you don't need to worry about". One of the statements was, "I'm not running fast enough." The response was, "Faster than who? The 75% of people who don't exercise, or the 95% of people who don't run? Relax, you're out there running." When we get caught up in questioning whether we are working the program enough, perhaps we need to remember that we are indeed working a program, and that we woke up sober this morning. Everyone has defects, including the "normies". Have a good day, folks, and remember to celebrate the sobriety of today.
Member: Quentin C.
Location: Vero Beach, Fl
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 10:41:57 AM
Hi every one. I am Quentin, an alcoholic. Progress is a subject I have been examining internaly lately. My experiences have lead me away from the idea of a punnishing GOD. Now I see a very instructive and kind creator. So I wonder where the road will take me. I have learned in thes past few years to remember to try not to drive. My Higher Power is at the wheel. I agree with many of the other folks that have written here this week. Progress is exectly that. Progress! Just being able to utilize ten and eleven is a miricle for me. I was at a slogan meeting last time I was home. It helps to keep them fresh in mind. Time Takes Time, Easy Dose It, and Meeting Makers Make It seem to apply to the topic this week. Thanks, Q
Member: Fred M
Location: MD
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 11:22:42 AM
I'm Fred a grateful recovering alcoholic. Jim B, thanks for the topic. How do we live with our character defects? By realizing that to be human is to be imperfect and by praying for awareness. That is what the program has given me--awareness. When I was drunk, my self-centeredness ran rampant. There was no check on my character defects, and I freely exhibited them and frequently. In sobriety, the defects of character are still there, but my HP has given me awareness. When I am off into one or more of my character defects, I get these awareness messages that tell me so. Once I am aware, then I must make a choice. Do I remain in my defect, or come back to a spiritual condition? The discomfort I feel in sobriety is this aspect of responsibility; to make the right choice. Once I have awareness, I have no excuse. At least that's the way I see it.
Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Kelly K
Location: State of desprssion
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 2:23:20 PM
Hi Im Kelly, I just woke up this morning with yet another hangover and fight with ?ex fiance and the only reason I cant figure is because I cant seem to stop drinking wine at night, I really need help but Im afraid of tne work and committment involved, any really good suggestions, besides AA, as Im already here on line.Thanks K
Member: Chris K
Location: Hawaiian Rainforest
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 3:07:40 PM
Hi sober support, just a comment on bringing up Jesus in a meeting. Some of us sure get AWFULLY twisted up about it, feel like our rights are being trod on, etc. etc. WELL - I would really much rather hear about Jesus in a meeting than someone else sharing f**k every other word, which doesn't seem to offend near as many people. Funny bunch, aren't we?
Member: Dr. C
Location:
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 3:17:12 PM
If you are having a hard time getting sober, you may need to be "detoxed". Withdrawal from alcohol is also a physical thing, and potentially dangerous. In the old days, they used to give us Karo syrup in orange juice, to replace all the sugars. Go to a lot of meetings, drink plenty liquids, go to the hospital if you are extremely shaky and/or start to "see things". Don't try to do it on your own, let the program carry you, and if that's not enough, go to the hospital. If you are worried about the time away from work/family, trust us, you will lose it all anyway if you don't first attend to your disease & get through the first few rugged days. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can take to make it better (that won't also become a problem); you just gotta tough it out. You might not be able to do it, but together, WE can.
Member: MR>HAPPY
Location:
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 6:19:47 PM
MARGIE YOU SURE DO GET AROUND I CAN,T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME A WOMAN HAS HAD MR. HAPPY SO ..... I SURE THANK GOD MY IMAGINATION STILL WORKS, CAUSE YOU COULD BE A COW. BUT I,LL ALWAYS THINK OF YOU AS...
Member: Like It Is!
Location:
Date: 2/28/2002
Time: 6:21:33 PM
Chris K of Hawaii says much in those few words! It has been the undying and proven principle that both Bill W. and Dr. Bob had to learn for themselves, that you have to replace a chronic lust for toxic substances for a “power greater than yourself!” A lot of us started out calling this a “higher power,” not really knowing who or what this “higher power” was! That was the way it was in my case anyway! So unbeknownst to me I started to “grow along spiritual lines.” You could do that in those days when I was working the program for a sick person who really didn’t know who he was, or what he wanted. There was nothing going on like now goes on in AA f2f meetings, internet forums, and you name it! So today in AA sick people either cannot or will not submit themselves to any kind of power outside of themselves! Those who want to are habitually hindered from doing so by those who would rather curse spiritual growth rather than be healed by it! And while these bitter cursers might someday grow out of these destructive trends, how many people in AA have they severely injured along the way? So I avoid organizational AA meetings like I would a plague! I do contribute some ESH at times to this forum, other sources on the internet and any private discussions I may find myself in! This works for me and is not being dictated to others!
Member: MARK W
Location: IN HOPE
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 12:37:41 AM
HI all im an alcholic ;who is having a hard time with getting involved and learning more about aa and can i use it to really stop dranking i have a hard time right now geting around but i just got this dont know much about it glad to find this just finished the big book i got to read the first half again becuse it is me,Mark all in the part of the jay walker is all me!!
Member: MARK W
Location: IN HOPE
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 12:37:50 AM
HI all im an alcholic ;who is having a hard time with getting involved and learning more about aa and can i use it to really stop dranking i have a hard time right now geting around but i just got this dont know much about it glad to find this just finished the big book i got to read the first half again becuse it is me,Mark all in the part of the jay walker is all me!!
Member: Mark
Location: CS
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 12:57:45 AM
Mark here an alcoholic. JimB, my only comment is "easy does it but do it." There isn't a human alive that doesn't have some baggage and imperfections. Just watch a perfect person for awhile until they stumble. I'm no exception. I just have to work the steps the best I can, and be honest, open minded, and willing. Perfection doesn't come to humans. Thank God for that. However, God can do for me what I cannot do for myself.
Speaking of imperfect people.. I am wondering, I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic-addict. Well, that addict starts with a big A. We do so much for alcoholics in AA, is there an addict's Big Book? Any helpful suggestions for recovering addicts, such as literature, or programs, or sites to visit would be appreciated.
Sober Blessings to you all!
Member: Charlie Darling
Location: Key West, FL
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 5:47:56 AM
Hell Family Charlie a very gratful recovering alcholic, and yes today I have much gratitude, and have been truly been blessed, for today is my 5th anniversary of sobriety, and it is remarkable, for I should have picked up a drink many times before this. But I thank my family of AA and my HP for keeping me sober, and letting the promises come true in my life.It works it really does. So I will continue to come back until I no longer need the program, and that will be for many years to come. My worst character defect was getting even to people for what they have done to me, and I really tried, and today I pray for them, and I ask my HP everyday not to let me get resentments, as I can't afford them for they will take me out quicker than I can blink my eyes. I don't question as to why it works it does, and I am truly blessed to have found this progrm, and this wonderful site which as helped me more than they realize, and I am gratful to all of you out there who has helped me stay sober one day at a time with your ESH . Thank you I Love you Charlie Darling kwduke_1999@yahoo.com Have a great day.
Member: Pete B.
Location: Indy
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 10:57:44 AM
Pete here...I'm an alcoholic. Congratulation Charlie D. Your "birthday" is outstanding! ... and many more! ... Progress not perfection - What brings to my attention in this subject is that "I have a choice". Simple as that! I have a choice to make a decision and live by it. Jim B. probably decided to go to school, choose a wife, buy a certain car ... on and on. I make the same decisions every day. Either I do it or not. Either I want to or I don't. It's "back and white" now. Not "grey" when I lied to myself and denied everything. I am imperfect (although in my drinking days I thought otherwise) and I know that ... but that doesn't give me any excuse not to do the right thing. I make mistakes, but I learn from them and try to correct things. The HP knows that!
What's important is to ask the HP from the heart not the head to remove the imperfections. Not all a once but one at a time. Only the HP can do that. Noone else. This program is pretty simple and clear cut. Just keep trying and leave the "analysis paralysis" out of it. God bless, enjoy!
Member: YOUR LOVING LONELY
Location: BROKEN HEARTED MAN
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 11:12:10 AM
MARGIE, COME OUT AND PLAY WITH ME. I SEE YOUR HIKNEE SO WHITE AN SHINEY YOU BETTER HIDE IT_____BEFORE I BITE IT
Member: Gideon
Location: Anchorage, Ak
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 12:40:37 PM
I Drank yesterday after, sixyears of soberity. What a shame. I have an outragous hangover and I feel like sh*t. Now I remember why I don't drink. I will go to a meetig today at drydock and the only thing I have to look forward to is that it's going to get better as the day wears on. As long as I don't drink again. And I know I won't. If anybodys out there thinks of testing the waters, it sucks. I had a bottle of wine w/ my ex and afrer I got a buzz I wanted more in an instant. I drank everything in sight. And now I paying for it. Only God can help me now. I trust in the Lord w/ my whole heart that he can place his grace on a sinner like me. I like the subtopic about Jesus by Kevin. Speak more of Jesus, that is what te principals of AA is based on. So what if people get the heebie geebies when it come to God, apparently they are not getting the true message. God love us and he does not us to ruin our live w/ drugs and alcohol. Please pray for me I need help. Not so much as in not drinking today, I think I've had enough for another sixears if not a life time. But pray for salvation and that God will bless my body with recovery, mind body and soul. Thanks for being here, thanks for letting me share this shameful event in my recovery.
Member: Gail G
Location: CO
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 12:55:28 PM
Gail here, alcoholic 7days sober
Gideon, you are definitely in my prayers and I know that prayer works.
The main thing is that you are back on track now. That was yesterday. Today is a whole new day.
Look at how far you've come! That's something to be proud of!
Take care, Gail G
Member: Ken
Location:
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 4:08:34 PM
It is time. Past time. Alcohol has not ruined my life but has damaged it and shortened it. And I really really really like it too much. My capactiy is immense, and I fill it every chance I get. I am the classic unrepentent functional alcoholic.
I need to decide whether to swallow my pride and find a meeting. I have been telling myself for years -- decades really -- that I can quit on my own. "I quit SMOKING on my own, with an online support group....can alcohol be any tougher?" But day by day, I am drinking myself to death one day at a time.
I still hold a great job, my family tolerates my habit, and so far I have been able to hide the effects this is having on my body (except that one time I went to the doctor and he unexpectedly drew blood, found my liver output sucked.... I had to quit for 60 days and get retested just to prove to him that it was a fluke. Went straight from his office to the nearest bar.)
I have avoided meetings because of pride but also because of my job -- I really truly would lose it if anyone ever found out I was in a program. Too sensitive, too much chance of being compromised. So in avoiding it, and in not quitting alone, I have not dealt with the problem. My problem.
So I post here, a first time visitor, not to get a lot of responses or sympathy or encouragement from any of you. But I do ask your prayers. Pray that I will find strength to do the right thing. Pray that I can receive forgiveness from my family for the bad days and bad words and bad situations I have created for them from time to time. Pray for me, in the hope that I find my way.
God bless you all.
Member: Margie
Location: LI
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 4:33:51 PM
Hi Ken,
It took a lot of guts to share that with us!
I am fairly new to all this as well, 6 mths., back into the program. I had to try again to see if I had my addiction licked, after 2 years of sobriety, I went back to the bars, and of course, once agian, the drinking and the drugging kicked my b*tt!!
I relate to your feelings of wanting it to end but just can't seem to. We have all felt that way, you are not alone!! Remember you are never alone here, and especially in the actual meeting places of AA. We all understand how it is so hard to put it down! The pain we create for ourselves and others when we drink is astounding, but feel there is no other way to live. I had to resign to the fact that I just couldn't handle the pain anymore and had to admit defeat and to get help. I am glad I jumped off that cliff, because I was met with love and understanding beyond my wildest expectations!
I hope you keep posting here, if nothing else. But I do hope you don't wait until your job discovers that you DO have a problem and lets you go, or your family leaves you, or you are hospitalized, or worse yet, imprisoned. These are the things that have happened to many of us, some bad, some worse, but the road always ends in misery.
I will definetly pray for you and will look for your postings.
Much love and hope... Margie
P.S. Please ignore the innane, and sophmoric comments by some! This is an open site, and there are many derelicts out there having their fun. They are not of AA. Ignore them, as I have come to learn!
Member: Tom A. 7/25/60
Location: Carlisle, AR
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 5:00:09 PM
Good Afternoon to all who post and read Staying Cyber's weekly discussion meeting. Thank you Jim B. from Planet Earth for providing us with the topic "Progress not Perfection." Tom A. here, a grateful sober alcoholic TODAY by the grace of a wonderful Higher Power and this fellowship we call A.A. I believe the quote from the Big Book is. "We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection." And for me that is an important distinction. Fully realizing TODAY that I am an alcoholic who is sick in my mind, body, and spirit and daily recovery depends upon treating all three of these aspects of my disease. I have discovered that developing a spiritual way of life helps to keep my mind and body stable. A tool that has been helpful to me is the A.A. Wallet Card that contains The Serenity Prayer, The Steps, The Traditions and The A.A. Preamble. This card is a ready reference to what our program is all about and I am thankful that it is a part of my spiritual tool box. Once again, I say thank you to ALL who post each week on this site and my wish for you is "Sobriety Without End!" as Father John Doe would say. Love and prayers from an alky who cares.
God Bless - Tom A., cte50203@centurytel.net
Member: TMG
Location: North
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 5:26:55 PM
Someone once said, "beware the ides of March!"
Look what happened on the first of March!
See http://www.geocities.com/tmgnorth/nz.html
Member: POPPA BEAR
Location: SO SAD
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 5:33:08 PM
DOES THAT MEAN NO ASS SCREEN SAVER MARGIE?
Member: John H
Location: California
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 5:52:00 PM
Thanks, Ken, for your post. I've re-read it several times. It has the ring of self-honesty, which is hard for most of us. As a dry drunk who once thought that the "first 30 days of sobriety" was cumulative over 10 years, I know how hard it is. You're in my thoughts and prayers.
Member: John H
Location: Indiana
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 7:08:07 PM
The weekend is here, so continue, each of you, to remain sober, a day at a time. And please be reminded, the AA program is a spiritual journey with the support of the Higher Power of your understanding. Religion should not be introduced online, nor in meetings. If necessary, discuss such with your sponsor. If you don't have one, seek one that you can relate to as soon as possible.
The best to you all soberly!
Member: jerry farwell
Location:
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 9:35:17 PM
margie you know you eat this up like a diabetic eatssweets where elsev are you goona get a second look excrptn in a place that cant see ya
Member: Tanya G
Location: Lennoxville Quebec
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 9:46:29 PM
Hey my name is Tanya G... maybe you have seen my father's comments before, i would just like to let him and all of you readers know that i am so proud of him for his 5 years of sobriety, and that his courage has at many times brought tears to my eyes. congratulations dad(Rollie G). love Tan.
Member: Tanya G
Location: Lennoxville Quebec
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 10:03:47 PM
Hey my name is Tanya G... maybe you have seen my father's comments before, i would just like to let him and all of you readers know that i am so proud of him for his 5 years of sobriety, and that his courage has at many times brought tears to my eyes. congratulations dad(Rollie G). love Tan.
Member: Kitty
Location: Dodge
Date: 3/1/2002
Time: 11:23:18 PM
Hey,Festus,Mat once said,get out of town by sundown.
Member: test
Location: tech
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 1:02:19 AM
testing
Member: Scott
Location: SOCAL
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 2:55:58 AM
Scott AA and a child o god !! I think perfection kept me drunk for a long Time!! The P word had me so scared that I just couldn't deal with it!! My character defects are still present!! I just don't act on them as often!! also through a kind and loving God I forgave myself for my past but I did not forget my past!!!.............willingness!!! I do not want to return to how it was!!! Honesty!! snottyr@cox.net
Member: Rich R
Location: Detroit
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 5:14:23 AM
My name is Rich R and I am a perfectionist. I wish I could say a recovering perfectionist, but I really don't believe I have recovered that much in that area. (Doesn't THAT statement sound like it's from a REAL perfectionist?) One little thing that I do is to check my postings for spelling errors before I hit submit. If, when I go back and read what I have posted I see that I have missed a spelling error I get real upset with myself! Now I ask you, have you ever encountered a spelling error on the web? Of course, they are all over the place and many are just typos. But, most times you can figure out what the person was trying to say. So, that type of perfectionism for me is just a big waste of my time and energy. If I were to NOT proofread my stuff and instead spend that extra time on working the steps or helping others, I'd be a lot further along in other areas of my recovery. I guess what 11+ years of AA has taught me is to accept myself, just as I am (warts and all) and don't sweat the small stuff. Thanks for letting me share here.
Member: mark w
Location: indiana
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 2:03:11 PM
Mark an alcoholic ivbeen keeping it as simple and easy as possable i am still detoxing my self i have no pataints ,toleance or no care for no perfection only my life to not take a drank is the only perfect thing i chooseto do to day as long as i can make progras in changing me make anew unknown way of life by staying sober one day at a time thanx all kiss every one
Member: mark w
Location: indiana
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 2:07:01 PM
Mark an alcoholic ivbeen keeping it as simple and easy as possable i am still detoxing my self i have no pataints ,toleance or no care for no perfection only my life to not take a drank is the only perfect thing i chooseto do to day as long as i can make progras in changing me make anew unknown way of life by staying sober one day at a time thanx all kiss every one
Member: Patrick M.
Location: Goodnews Bay, Alaska
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 2:20:23 PM
Hello! My name is Pat and I'm an alcoholic.
In my early days of sobriety I kept comparing my progress in recovery to others in the program. I wanted to work a perfect program. When I would do this, my sponsor was quick to point out that its my journey, no matter how long it takes. I wasn't ready till 5 years later and then it was only because I was suicidal and had absolutely no where to turn. Perfectionism not only blocked me from completing simple projects but kept relationships at bay as well. I kept looking for perfect people and I've now learned that there's been only a few.
I often miss those people that were there for me in the early part of my journey in sobriety and it funny, sometimes I'll be in a meeting and someone will share who either looks like are sounds like one of my old friends. I say to myself "that's God's replacement for _____".
Thank all of you for my sobriety.
Patrick M.
For those of you stuggling with this disease, don't give up on yourself because will kill you eventually, some sooner, some later.
Member: a friend of Bill&the 1st 100
Location: EAST STBG.PA
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 3:55:36 PM
If you are one of the countless members of A.A. that at one time or another wondered,why do gays have their own meetings as well as women, men,atheists,hispanics and a wide variety of other "special interest"folk,you are not alone. To debate the validity or the rights of these people is of no interest to me,I say to each their own. What my goal is,is to give the same rights to alcoholics who believe in and want to speak aout JESUS CHRIST and THE BIBLE,that homosexuals have.That simply is,the right to speak openly without fear of retaliation be it verbal or physical. It truly is a shame that ANY member of A.A. should feel the need to hide either what they are or what they believe in the sanctuary of our fellowship.But we are imperfect beings and subject to the flesh,myself included. So in order to make an attempt to bring our fellowship closer,our bond more united, a meeting will begin within 6 weeks that is desisned to help us all better understand what our loving founders had in store for us.We will read from literature our founders read from.We will open and close the meeting as did our founders.And most importantly,we will grow to love GOD and each other! The meeting will take place either in marshalls creek pa or east stroudsburg pa-within a few days there will be an e-mail address should you choose to pursue further information.
Member: a friend of Bill&the 1st 100
Location: EAST STBG.PA
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 3:55:51 PM
If you are one of the countless members of A.A. that at one time or another wondered,why do gays have their own meetings as well as women, men,atheists,hispanics and a wide variety of other "special interest"folk,you are not alone. To debate the validity or the rights of these people is of no interest to me,I say to each their own. What my goal is,is to give the same rights to alcoholics who believe in and want to speak aout JESUS CHRIST and THE BIBLE,that homosexuals have.That simply is,the right to speak openly without fear of retaliation be it verbal or physical. It truly is a shame that ANY member of A.A. should feel the need to hide either what they are or what they believe in the sanctuary of our fellowship.But we are imperfect beings and subject to the flesh,myself included. So in order to make an attempt to bring our fellowship closer,our bond more united, a meeting will begin within 6 weeks that is desisned to help us all better understand what our loving founders had in store for us.We will read from literature our founders read from.We will open and close the meeting as did our founders.And most importantly,we will grow to love GOD and each other! The meeting will take place either in marshalls creek pa or east stroudsburg pa-within a few days there will be an e-mail address should you choose to pursue further information.
Member: f o b w
Location:
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 3:57:53 PM
sorry about the doble message
Member: ANGIE H
Location: Texas
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 9:46:18 PM
Hello! My name is Angie and i am an alcoholic. I will tell you something funny, I thought alll of my defects were removed untill I got married my 4th year of sobriety. It brought up so many old fears and baggage that I felt i could not breath. As a responsible member I thought well this cant be happening to me. I had done everything that had been suggested in the Big Book and by my sponsers. I even did the "no dating" thing for a year so I could find myself and my higher powwer. Well My husband spent more time on his sisters couch my first 6 months of marriage than on ours. I becane aware that I needed to share honestly about what I was going thru with someone i trusted. I went to more meetings while i was going thru it. I prayed forGods will to be done no matter what. No matter what. ( even if it meant losing my relationship) I had to put my sobriety first. As time passed i realised that i was living life without drinking facing my fears, having a relationship, hanging on and not giving up when times were painful.God removed the defects at that point that kept me from having beauty and love in my life. Today I have been married almost 4 years and i have a 2 week old baby boy. Gods rewards are pronised if we follow the guidelines in the book. WORK WITH OTHERS, CLEAN HOUSE, And dont pick up a drink today it to shall pass. YOU ARE ONLY GOING THRU ANOTHER GROWING EXPERIANCE!!!!! GOD BLESS Angie in Texas
Member: Dan D.
Location: Chicago
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 9:54:02 PM
Hi,my name is Dan and I am an alcoholic.this is my first on-line meeting.We had a snow storm here so I didn't make it to my regular meeting.About the topic.I welcome anything spritual/positive in a meeting so long as it applies to our primary purpose.I myself would be doomed if I didn't find people who talked about thier drinking and how they recovered.Thank you for being here and for what sounds like some true recovery.
Member: BJ b
Location:
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 9:54:30 PM
Greetings brothers n sisters in God, Jesus, or whatever, whoever you choose to open or close your mind to. My defects have character. Some times He uses them for service to bring others in awareness of their own shortcomings. There is a saying, "I'm not what I want to be, not what I am going to be, But I'm damn sure not what I use to be." I thing they call it GRACE. I prayed for perfection when I was a young pup in recovery, and kept trying to eat the right foods, took everyones inventory cept my own, tried to lose weight,(figured I'D be perfect} I won a huge can of sauerkraut - 5lbs to be exact, name on the label was perfection. Guess He was telling me to clean out. He does have a sense of humor don't he. Finally figured out it was the 4th step He really was talking about. Theres a line I read somewhere, Love takes no account of wrongs done to it. 1st Cor. 13. I hear Santa makes a list and checks it out, twice, he wants to see whos naughty or nice. Don't sound like love to me. Or is it really just tough love, aka 'consequences'. Practice the principles in all your affairs they told me and ask Him for help and defects will lessen. Thanks for letting me share.
Member: Bruce N
Location: Houston
Date: 3/2/2002
Time: 11:10:19 PM
Bruce an alcoholic, just a quick comment to Ken about not letting anyone know your in the program. It made me laugh at myself and remember years ago when one of the oldtimers in my group pointed out that I would always park my truck 2 blocks away from the meeting hall but for the past 10 years he would notice that at 3:00..Monday through Friday..my company truck was parked in front of the bar on main street! Point being, they already knew before I got here....God Bless
Member: dempsy d
Location: iow uk
Date: 3/3/2002
Time: 4:30:42 AM
Hello,dempsy here comoing upto 5 years sober.I can go into self beatingmode at a drop of a hat but remember "you no worse or better than anyone else" and it makessense for me.I just another human being on earthly journey. love to yous all xxxx
Member: Aussie Lenny S
Location: Morisset Australia
Date: 3/3/2002
Time: 5:37:05 AM
Hi, Im Lennie, Alcoholic. Very intesting discussion. Over 27 years sober and still seeing progress and still seeing that there is more to be done on me. I feel I have a long way to go. I go to 6 meetings a week including a steps meeting and I learn so much from the newcomers there. I love telling them where Im at with the steps which is where they are at and Im still learning all the time. Keep bringing in the newcomers for me. My sobriety depends on them. I love you all
Member: hurtin 4 certain
Location:
Date: 3/3/2002
Time: 6:01:17 AM
i,ve been up all night watching porno and my cock is raw from jrkin off